[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 6:09:21 AM UTC+1, lungimsam wrote: > > If I love friction bar end shifting, will I find friction DT shifting > just as easy and enjoyable? > > Never done it before, and seems like the reach may make it more difficult > and looks like there's a big potential for k

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Lynne Fitz wrote: > I am compelled to mention that bar end shifters do not preclude using a > front rack and bag. Both my Bleriot and my Sweetpea are set up that way. > > -- > ​Not 100% sure where we are going here, what shifter setup precludes racks and bags?

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

Yes. You can still get 8 speed Tiagra. 9 and 10 speed Shimano DT shifters I think you'll be buying either in the second hand or the NOS kind of market. I've used super cheap 9 speed SunRace DT shifters. The clicks were shimano 9-speed compatible. On Friday, December 19, 2014 10:45:24 AM U

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

All-Is anyone still making indexed DT shifters? -Norman 'waiting for the Pineapple Express in PDX' Bone -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rb

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I too preferred dt shifters for half stepping, though the best setup for me was those devices that allowed to you mount dt shifters just inboard of your brake hoods -- mid '90s invention, IIRC, sold by Rivendell at one time. I remember! Kelly Take-Offs!! I too prefer bar cons for off road. But I

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

Early winter irritability is showing up in this thread. Let's count our blessings and move on. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I am compelled to mention that bar end shifters do not preclude using a front rack and bag. Both my Bleriot and my Sweetpea are set up that way. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiv

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

DT shifting was/is great with low front end bikes and low drop bars :) No so great with tall front end bikes intended for a more upright position and high bars , the reach and bend are awkward . Bar end , not for me either . Too close to my knees when turning sometimes . My choice,

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

Dear Steve, On the other hand, I strongly prefer downtube shifters to bar-cons. One, I find my bicycle handling is not affected by the reach to the downtube with my right hand. I'm not especially tall, but am +4" on the ape index (long arms) and the downtube shifters require less effort to reac

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I'm not out to get you, Matthew J, but vintage clamp on shifters will only fit 'standard' diameter downtubes (28.6mm). The Bleriot and Hillborne in question are 31.8mm OS tubing. No worries. Was about to say guess this means Lungimsam ought to get a Hilsen but see where he wants cantis. Tri

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I'm thinking DT braze ons (clean set up, cuz no shifter housings up front) and cantis for maximum ease of front rack ability and fender ability. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receivi

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I'm not out to get you, Matthew J, but vintage clamp on shifters will only fit 'standard' diameter downtubes (28.6mm). The Bleriot and Hillborne in question are 31.8mm OS tubing. I'm sure there's a Problem Solvers variant that would make it possible. Adding an entirely new bike to the stabl

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

> Pondering this for a next bike I may get one day to see if I should get bosses on the frame or not. Yeah, Bill L. pointed out to me no DT shifters on the Bleriot. > I guess the only way I'll know is to find a bike with them and try it out The opportunity to get a third bike is all the more

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

Besides Lance, Pantani did the same thing; DT left, Ergo right. Apparently it's popular for mountain stages. Doing my first century, something like 16 years ago now, I saw a guy on a Lightspeed (IIRC) with DT shifters. I was so proud of my Command Shifters at the time. We started chatting ab

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

That's great! Mixed media shifting is always interesting. Long ago, when promoting a stage race in the Ozark Mountains, this up and coming kid from Dallas who had been doing triathlons came and he preferred a bar end on the left and a Shimano brifter on the right. He vastly preferred the infin

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

No bosses on my 53 Bleriot or 2013 Sam. Pondering this for a next bike I may get one day to see if I should get bosses on the frame or not. I guess the only way I'll know is to find a bike with them and try it out. I am perfectly happy with my bar end shifters now though. -- You received this me

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

>How about 1 of each like on my rSogn? Friction DT on the left and Indexed barcon on the right. Unique, creative and clever. I love it. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop recei

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

> unless his Sam Hillborne and Bleriot don't happen to be equipped with DT shift bosses. Believe Bleriot did come with DT bosses. Not sure about the Hillborne. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this grou

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

How about 1 of each like on my rSogn? Friction DT on the left and Indexed barcon on the right. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I have had all the the types of shifters mentioned up to now, and more, over the almost 50 years I have been riding bikes. Truth be told, I like them all when they work well. I think that is the core here; what works well for you right now on the chosen bike? DT shifters worked very well for me

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

My current Hilsen has DT shifters. As others have said, I like the looks. I'm also very comfortable with DT shifters so, even though I'm a tall guy, I don't really notice any issues that would ever make me want to give up style over function. When I had an Atlantis touring bike, I used DT shif

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I was reading the old posts in this thread and noticed this one again, I too tend to click the bar-end with my palm as I hold the bar, works pretty good and it keeps two hands on the bar at all times. Of course this only works for upshifts, unless someone has figured out how to levitate their leve

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

"Bottom line is Lungimsam should certainly give DT a try. He may just like it as much as some of us here do." unless his Sam Hillborne and Bleriot don't happen to be equipped with DT shift bosses. In that case he should just be happy with what he has because barcons are also great. On Th

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

> I support you taking whatever steps necessary to give your daughter the safest cycling environment possible. Me too. Truly sorry this whole topic went off track. Bottom line is Lungimsam should certainly give DT a try. He may just like it as much as some of us here do. -- You received thi

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

>From the hoods, with Shimano, you don't really use your fingertips. A least I >don't. Middle finger is kinda resting against small lever the whole time and >I just kinda push it inward to shift. I do find it a little awkward snagging the little lever with my fingertips from the drops, howeve

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

My DT shifters are pretty much right on the front tire. I've only put fingers in the spokes twice since 1989, though. :) On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 11:43:04 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > On 12/17/2014 01:52 PM, Matt

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I took it as him not understanding your concern with a DT setup. I support you taking whatever steps necessary to give your daughter the safest cycling environment possible. On Dec 18, 2014 11:26 AM, "Ron Mc" wrote: > you don't have the right to have a different point of view about my > daughter

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

> you don't have the right to have a different point of view about my daughter's bike I have no point of view on your daughter's bike. I have a point of view on whether DT shifters are any more or less safe than Bar End. My point of view is they are not. If you are sensitive to point of vie

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I made a post that was a point about something specific, nothing general. The fact that you and steve both took general exception with it really show what dicks the two of you are - a general point made over and over On Thursday, December 18, 2014 11:26:34 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote: > > you don't

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

you don't have the right to have a different point of view about my daughter's bike On Thursday, December 18, 2014 11:24:30 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote: > > more like the Bullwinkle show > > On Thursday, December 18, 2014 9:07:11 AM UTC-6, Matthew J wrote: >> >> > after the lecture, that's condescensi

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

more like the Bullwinkle show On Thursday, December 18, 2014 9:07:11 AM UTC-6, Matthew J wrote: > > > after the lecture, that's condescension.. here's my daughter's frame, > her first drop bar and fast steering bike - she had problems steering it > for the first 100 miles. In everything, she is

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

> after the lecture, that's condescension.. here's my daughter's frame, her first drop bar and fast steering bike - she had problems steering it for the first 100 miles. In everything, she is an aggressive charger. It is hard to have a discussion on differing points of view where someone takes

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I see, that was Steve's lecture - par for the course. On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 1:43:04 PM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > On 12/17/2014 01:52 PM, Matthew J wrote: > > > because I didn't want her reaching into the wheel to shift > > > > What set up would lead to this? > > The point i

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

after the lecture, that's condescension.. here's my daughter's frame, her first drop bar and fast steering bike - she had problems steering it for the first 100 miles. In everything, she is an aggressive charger.

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

But I have your back. On my 58 cm Ram, I -- 5'10", mostly torso, short arms ("damn! I can't reach my change!!") and simply drop my arm loosely from my shoulder and find the dt shifter. There *is* one more variable; how inclined your body is in your typical riding positions. My road bars are ~1" be

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

> Those rubber shift lever covers were made for DT levers, but always seemed pretty pointless. Speaking of fair's fair, this is a very clever idea. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop r

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I think a lot of it comes from what you were riding when you "came of age" in cycling. Something about teaching an old dog and new tricks. Scott On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 3:51 PM, George Schick wrote: > > OK, I'll say "uncle" on this one. I stand 5' 9" and have slightly > disproportionately short

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

OK, I'll say "uncle" on this one. I stand 5' 9" and have slightly disproportionately shorter legs vs. slightly longer torso ratio. And I ride a 54cm frame. So for me to "reach down" is no big deal, but I realize that it might be a big issue for those of taller heights and more proportionate

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

On 12/17/2014 02:44 PM, George Schick wrote: Plus, if you're used to riding with hands on the brake lever hoods, as I assume most of us are, you still have to reach down to the end of the drops with one hand or the other. With the DT's only one hand is required to do all the shifting - and you

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I prefer DT shifters, too, and agree with Andrew's 1-2-3 items along with other positive replies on the list. Like others have experienced, I grew up with DT's and just got used to them. Bar-con's were the next evolutionary step, but I never cared much for them for some of the reasons listed

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

On 12/17/2014 01:52 PM, Matthew J wrote: > because I didn't want her reaching into the wheel to shift What set up would lead to this? The point is, there is no downtube shifter setup that would require anyone to reach into the wheel. In fact, you aren't anywhere even close to the wheel. N

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

Not calling you out, sincerely did not follow. Shifting is personal. I have no say - nor want any - as to what others do. However on most bikes the rider's hand is as close to the wheel at the bottom of drop bars as at a down tube shifter. On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 1:10:36 PM UTC-6,

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

hi Matthew, you calling me out? I didn't want my 12-year old daughter to deal with downtube shifters. If you think different I'm happy for you. On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 12:52:37 PM UTC-6, Matthew J wrote: > > > because I didn't want her reaching into the wheel to shift > > What set up

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

> because I didn't want her reaching into the wheel to shift What set up would lead to this? On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 12:27:01 PM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote: > > Jim, have to agree with you about the obvious - no offense. Bar ends and > a moustache cockpit are just perfect. I can see how stem

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

Jim, have to agree with you about the obvious - no offense. Bar ends and a moustache cockpit are just perfect. I can see how stem shifters would be best with Albas and absolute sit-straight-up cycling. I did, however, hunt down Microshift 9-speed barcons for my daughter's first drop-bar bike

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I also love the subtle feel of pushing the bar end down with palm and everything shifting just like silk On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 12:04:48 PM UTC-6, Michael Hechmer wrote: > > I would disagree that brifters are more convenient than BEs. I find > pushing with my finger tips quite unnatura

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I see lots of drop bar users with bar ends... Just saying. On Dec 17, 2014 10:23 AM, "Andrew Marchant-Shapiro" < marchantshap...@gmail.com> wrote: > It occurs to me that the kind of handlebar you're using is also a factor. > If you're using drops, DT is probably much more appealing than if you're

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I would disagree that brifters are more convenient than BEs. I find pushing with my finger tips quite unnatural. Michael On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 11:41:04 AM UTC-5, Mojo wrote: > > I will join Andrew here, I love downtube friction shifting. Its simple > with very fast derailer response t

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

Those rubber shift lever covers were made for DT levers, but always seemed pretty pointless. However, they're absolutely necessary on bar end shifters to protect the top tube paint. On Wednesday, December 17

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

Like many of the above replies, I have both set ups. I would say bar ends are better due to always being near at and (and I ride with my hands resting on them when I have Moustache bars). But, downtube shifters are fine on a bike you don't shift a whole bunch, and don't ride aggressively off ro

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I will join Andrew here, I love downtube friction shifting. Its simple with very fast derailer response to input. There is very little to go wrong. Even the entire cable is visible in case it starts to fail. Bar ends are great too just not Great. Its not as easy or as convenient as bar ends, by

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

> I'm a drop-bar user, and so find DT shifters natural. I expect if I ever shift to uprights, I'll want something closer to my hands--likely a 3-speed trigger arrangement. Good points. I had drops on the Hilsen referenced above. My flat bar multi speed is a 1x6 matched to Paul Thumbies holdi

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

It occurs to me that the kind of handlebar you're using is also a factor. If you're using drops, DT is probably much more appealing than if you're using a sit-up handlebar of some sort. I'm a drop-bar user, and so find DT shifters natural. I expect if I ever shift to uprights, I'll want some

Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

Yeah, the one bike (Fargo) with BES has a big wad of bar tape padding on the top tube where the Silver shifters would otherwise contact the paint -- this tape is scarred from many contacts. Such contacts also annoyingly shift the levers which is something I have to anticipate when I first get on an

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

One (to me) huge advantage is the fact that DT are fairly well protected whereas bar end shifters live in a fairly exposed place when it comes to crashing, leaning, falling over. With a little practice both work just fine. Clayton, SF -- You received this message because you are subscribed to

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I think the 10-speed I had as a kid, had the shifters on the stem. But after I switched to a mountain-bike in college, I had grip shifts, and wasn't on another bike for over 15 years. When I built up my Ram, I went w/ the bar-ends on Noodles, was fine. With my Bomba, went with bar-ends o

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

Never done it before, and seems like the reach may make it more difficult and looks like there's a big potential for knees banging into forearms while pedalling and reaching down to shift at same time. What's your experience been with DT shifting? I suppose height and dexterity are an issue b

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

for me a huge factor is how much you actually shift, i found DT shifters much more livable after i got my single-speed. i find the reach a little far, but in many cases i just don't shift :) but i'm one of the people that love the look versus bar-end shifters--especially bar-ends where you ex

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I use DT shifters in traffic (90% of my riding is commuting) so I don't think that's a factor for me. Of course I do have arms like a gorilla, so reaching the shifters had never been a problem for me. I probably shift less than I did with BE, Ergo, etc. I do miss my old Command Shifters, but

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

Agree on the grew up with DT shifting. Of course have both and both are natural for me. Current DT is on my go-fast - it's natural for me on that ride, though I do shift less often. Never had a problem with my long spindly limbs. I have bar ends on my utility bike with moustache cockpit, ri

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I think it depends on the kind of riding you will be doing. I used bar ends for the 13 years I commuted into work surrounded by rush hour traffic. I liked the security of not leaving the handle bars or being far from the brake levers. For a similar reason I use BEs on the tandem because the

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

Please allow me to dissent. I resisted DT shifters like the plague, but three things brought me around to friction DT. You may or may not agree with my rationale: 1. Simplicity. Other than having no shifters at all, DT friction is the simplest approach. 2. Relatedly, reliability in all res

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I'm with you Glen. When DT shifters were it, I was enjoying mountain biking and my shifters right there on the bar, by the brake levers. I have longer legs than my torso would dictate to production frame and my 60 cm road bike always had me feeling a little unsteady; those shifters were so far

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

I prefer bar end shifting. Indexed or friction. I've got one of each. Also a bike with down-tube friction shifters. Once I remembered how to do it, everything worked fine. But I really prefer bar end shifting. On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 9:09:21 PM UTC-8, lungimsam wrote: > > If I love fr

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

In my opinion DT shifters are for people who *really* like the look and simplicity, then adapt to the shifting. I happen to be one of those look/simplicity appreciators, but my attempt to get used to it a couple years ago was a no-go. Friction shifting at the bar-ends is ridiculously easy, and

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

As a tall guy I never liked shifters on the down tube, way too far to reach. It took brifters to introduce me to bar ends, now i'm sold On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 10:09:21 PM UTC-7, lungimsam wrote: > > If I love friction bar end shifting, will I find friction DT shifting > just as easy and

[RBW] Re: Bar end vs. down tube shifting... What's your experience...

Probably like many on this list, I grew up with DT shifting. Once I tried bar ends, I liked them a lot better. After years with bar ends, I tried DTs for a few months on my Atlantis. Not a difficult switch but went back to bar ends. On the issue of interference points, I would occasionally