I don't suggest Python is unconcerned with the casual user and the end
user, only that this is where PHP's community excels.
Learnig both as a newbie, I actually found PHP more confusing and
difficult than Python. Programming in PHP reminds me of a game of
trivial pursuit. Once you know a little
On 2007-07-26, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> That sounds trivial to ameliorate (at least somewhat) by putting your
>> uploads in a directory whose name is known only to you (let's say it's
>> a random 20-letter string). The parent directory can be protected to
>> not allow reading the
SamFeltus a écrit :
> PHP is just a more inclusive community. The PHP community is more
> concerned with the casual user and the end user. This is PHP's core
> strength, and one of Python's core weaknesses. The Python community
> would be wise to adopt PHP's concern for the end user.
This asse
"Chris Mellon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Would you make this directory name be the username+the password? If
> not, why not? The answer is the same reason why this isn't a reliable
> method of security.
I would not store plaintext passwords in a database, but that doesn't
mean it's security by
On 26 Jul 2007 13:26:33 -0700, Paul Rubin
<"http://phr.cx"@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > That sounds trivial to ameliorate (at least somewhat) by putting your
> > > uploads in a directory whose name is known only to you (let's say it's
> > > a random 20-let
Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > That sounds trivial to ameliorate (at least somewhat) by putting your
> > uploads in a directory whose name is known only to you (let's say it's
> > a random 20-letter string). The parent directory can be protected to
> > not allow reading the subdirect
Paul Rubin wrote:
> Jeffrey Froman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Consider a PHP-based CMS that allows users to upload files. Because the
>> application runs as the webserver user, uploaded files, and the directory
>> where they reside, must be accessible and writable by that user. It is the
>> sam
Jeffrey Froman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Consider a PHP-based CMS that allows users to upload files. Because the
> application runs as the webserver user, uploaded files, and the directory
> where they reside, must be accessible and writable by that user. It is the
> same user that any other ho
PHP is just a more inclusive community. The PHP community is more
concerned with the casual user and the end user. This is PHP's core
strength, and one of Python's core weaknesses. The Python community
would be wise to adopt PHP's concern for the end user.
That being said, I don't think you wil
walterbyrd wrote:
> The point is: PHP framework makers are very considerate of the
> realities of shared hosting.
I think the opposite is true: PHP applications typically ignore the
realities of shared hosting in order to be considerate to non-developers
(that is to say, "users"). In particular,
Jeff schreef:
> No programming language can fix bad programmers. And if cost is an
> issue, www.nearlyfreespeech.net has Python, clisp, and OCaml.
But only via CGI, which means every request results in a new instance of
the interpreter.
--
If I have been able to see further, it was only becaus
walterbyrd a écrit :
> On Jul 22, 12:17 am, Bruno Desthuilliers
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Either you are a casual user with 101 web
>> development skills trying to set up your personal home page
>
> But this, sort of, brings me back to my original point. Nobody starts
> out being advanced
walterbyrd wrote:
> On Jul 22, 12:17 am, Bruno Desthuilliers
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Either you are a casual user with 101 web
>> development skills trying to set up your personal home page
>
> But this, sort of, brings me back to my original point. Nobody starts
> out being advanced. T
Why are you praising PHP on a python mailing list are you trying to start a
flame war?
(Not evaluating PHP as a language), our company just switched over to using
Django
and my has it saved us time, and we can organize our code its really
beautiful. PHP
is full of new to programming users and thu
On Jul 22, 12:17 am, Bruno Desthuilliers
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Either you are a casual user with 101 web
> development skills trying to set up your personal home page
But this, sort of, brings me back to my original point. Nobody starts
out being advanced. There are substantial difference
walterbyrd a écrit :
> On Jul 25, 12:40 pm, Carsten Haese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>>What exactly could Python learn from PHP?
>
>
> Remember, I'm a noob, I'm not trolling.
>
> When I posted "Python" I meant the Python web-developement world. In
> particular, python frameworks, like Cher
Carsten Haese schrieb:
>> Also, PHP, and PHP frameworks, are supported everywhere. If you going
>> to use a PHP MVC framework, like codeignitor, you would have a hard
>> time finding a hoster that didn't support it - all you need is php4
>> and mysql. Dollar-hosting, for $10 a year, should work jus
On 7/25/07, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff McNeil wrote:
> > Unfortunately, I also find that PHP programmers are usually more
> > plentiful than their Python counterparts. When thinking of staffing
> > an organization, it's common to target a skill set that's cheaper to
> > employ
No programming language can fix bad programmers. And if cost is an
issue, www.nearlyfreespeech.net has Python, clisp, and OCaml.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Jul 25, 3:55 pm, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff McNeil wrote:
> > Unfortunately, I also find that PHP programmers are usually more
> > plentiful than their Python counterparts. When thinking of staffing
> > an organization, it's common to target a skill set that's cheaper to
>
Jeff McNeil wrote:
> Unfortunately, I also find that PHP programmers are usually more
> plentiful than their Python counterparts. When thinking of staffing
> an organization, it's common to target a skill set that's cheaper to
> employ and easier to replace down the road if need be.
>
Right, that
walterbyrd wrote:
> On Jul 25, 2:12 pm, Carsten Haese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Also, CherryPy's requirements are very
>> minimal.
>
> In terms of memory and CPU, maybe. But I think that *requires* apache
> 2.x and a very recent version of mod_python. By web-hosting
> standards, those are
Carsten Haese wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-07-25 at 10:42 -0700, walterbyrd wrote:
>> "Once you start down the Dark path, forever will it dominate your
>> desiny. Consume you, it will."
>> - Yoda
>>
>> I'm fairly new to web-development, and I'm trying out different
>> technologies. Some people wonder why
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:42:54 +0300, walterbyrd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I'm fairly new to web-development, and I'm trying out different
> technologies. Some people wonder why PHP is so popular, when the
> language is flawed in so many ways. To me, it's obvious: it's because
> it's much easie
On Wed, 2007-07-25 at 13:55 -0700, walterbyrd wrote:
> On Jul 25, 2:12 pm, Carsten Haese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Also, CherryPy's requirements are very
> > minimal.
>
> In terms of memory and CPU, maybe. But I think that *requires* apache
> 2.x and a very recent version of mod_python.
On Jul 25, 2:12 pm, Carsten Haese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Also, CherryPy's requirements are very
> minimal.
In terms of memory and CPU, maybe. But I think that *requires* apache
2.x and a very recent version of mod_python. By web-hosting
standards, those are very steep requirements.
--
h
On Jul 25, 2:10 pm, Jeff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I can tell you exactly why PHP
> is so popular: it acts as an extension of HTML and is syntactically
> similar to Perl.
>
Although, that can lead to problems, if you're not careful:
Perl:
my $x = 5 + 9000 || 1; # $x is 9005
PHP:
$x = 5 + 900
I'm an ex-PHP programmer (well, I still have to use some PHP at work,
but I don't tell anyone that at parties) who now uses Python or Lisp
wherever possible for web development. I can tell you exactly why PHP
is so popular: it acts as an extension of HTML and is syntactically
similar to Perl.
PHP
On Wed, 2007-07-25 at 12:34 -0700, walterbyrd wrote:
> On Jul 25, 12:40 pm, Carsten Haese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > What exactly could Python learn from PHP?
>
> Remember, I'm a noob, I'm not trolling.
I know.
> When I posted "Python" I meant the Python web-developement world. In
> parti
Steve Holden wrote:
> When someone starts to push the limits of PHP they either continue to
> push until they get where they want to be (producing an ugly or
> ill-maintained bunch of code along the way) or they choose a more
> appropriate tool.
>
> The latter behavior is typical of programmers
On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 12:34:08PM -0700, walterbyrd wrote:
> When I posted "Python" I meant the Python web-developement world. In
> particular, python frameworks, like CherryPy, have requirements that
> are not realistic for most shared hosting plans.
It's true that the requirements are higher th
On Jul 25, 12:40 pm, Carsten Haese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What exactly could Python learn from PHP?
Remember, I'm a noob, I'm not trolling.
When I posted "Python" I meant the Python web-developement world. In
particular, python frameworks, like CherryPy, have requirements that
are not real
Steve Holden wrote:
> walterbyrd wrote:
>
>> "Once you start down the Dark path, forever will it dominate your
>> desiny. Consume you, it will."
>> - Yoda
>>
>> I'm fairly new to web-development, and I'm trying out different
>> technologies. Some people wonder why PHP is so popular, when the
>
walterbyrd schrieb:
> Don't get me wrong: I am not saying that PHP is better than Python for
> web-development. But, I sometimes think that Python could learn a few
> things from PHP.
Yes, indeed we can learn that popularity is not superiority. ;-)
Gregor
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listi
Unfortunately, I also find that PHP programmers are usually more
plentiful than their Python counterparts. When thinking of staffing
an organization, it's common to target a skill set that's cheaper to
employ and easier to replace down the road if need be.
Also, larger hosting shops are hesitant
On Wed, 2007-07-25 at 10:42 -0700, walterbyrd wrote:
> "Once you start down the Dark path, forever will it dominate your
> desiny. Consume you, it will."
> - Yoda
>
> I'm fairly new to web-development, and I'm trying out different
> technologies. Some people wonder why PHP is so popular, when the
> Before you can even get started with Python web-development, you have
> to understand this entire alphabit soup of: CGI, FASTCGI, MOD_PYTHON,
> FLUP, WSGI, PASTE, etc. For me, configuring fastcgi has been the most
> difficult part of getting django to work. PHP developers don't have to
> bother w
walterbyrd wrote:
> "Once you start down the Dark path, forever will it dominate your
> desiny. Consume you, it will."
> - Yoda
>
> I'm fairly new to web-development, and I'm trying out different
> technologies. Some people wonder why PHP is so popular, when the
> language is flawed in so many way
"Once you start down the Dark path, forever will it dominate your
desiny. Consume you, it will."
- Yoda
I'm fairly new to web-development, and I'm trying out different
technologies. Some people wonder why PHP is so popular, when the
language is flawed in so many ways. To me, it's obvious: it's bec
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