Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
> > Steve D'Aprano writes:
> > > Having to spend a few hours being paid to migrate code
> > > using "print x" to "print(x)", or even a few months, is
> > > not a life-changing experience.
> >
> > Didn't someone further up the thread mention some company
>
On 23 September 2017 at 12:37, Steve D'Aprano
wrote:
> 95% of Python is unchanged from Python 2 to 3. 95% of the remaining is a
> trivial
> renaming or other change which can be mechanically translated using a tool
> like
> 2to3. Only the remaining 5% of 5% is actually tricky to migrate. If your
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 04:05 pm, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Steve D'Aprano writes:
>> Having to spend a few hours being paid to migrate code using "print x"
>> to "print(x)", or even a few months, is not a life-changing experience.
>
> Didn't someone further up the thread mention some company that had spe
Steve D'Aprano writes:
> Having to spend a few hours being paid to migrate code using "print x"
> to "print(x)", or even a few months, is not a life-changing experience.
Didn't someone further up the thread mention some company that had spent
1.5 years porting a py2 codebase to py3?
The issue of
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 02:00 pm, Rick Johnson wrote:
> I think it's grossly unfair to label those who's lives
> have been up-ended by the backwards incompatible changes of
> Python3 as "haters".
Nobody, not one person, has ever had their life upended by Python 3.
People have their lives upended by
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 10:12:25 AM UTC-5, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> [...]
> And remember that the Python core developers feel your pain
> too. They had to migrate a large code base (the Python std
> library) from 2 to 3. They had to write the 2to3
> translator. And they have to maintain t
On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 3:07 AM, Rhodri James wrote:
> On 21/09/17 17:31, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> For a good while, I was in the same position. But instead of massively
>> rewriting everything, all I did was to adjust the material to use
>> Py2/Py3 compatible syntax. Adding parens around your
On 21/09/17 17:31, Chris Angelico wrote:
For a good while, I was in the same position. But instead of massively
rewriting everything, all I did was to adjust the material to use
Py2/Py3 compatible syntax. Adding parens around your print calls won't
stop it from being Py2-compatible, and it means
On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 1:59 AM, Rhodri James wrote:
> On 21/09/17 16:12, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:19 pm, Rhodri James wrote:
>>
>>> (That's basically my gripe against print becoming a function in Python3.
>>>It makes a lot of sense as has already been pointed out, bu
On 21/09/17 16:12, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:19 pm, Rhodri James wrote:
(That's basically my gripe against print becoming a function in Python3.
It makes a lot of sense as has already been pointed out, but it breaks
every beginners tutorial.)
Nobody made that decision lig
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:19 pm, Rhodri James wrote:
> (That's basically my gripe against print becoming a function in Python3.
> It makes a lot of sense as has already been pointed out, but it breaks
> every beginners tutorial.)
Nobody made that decision lightly. It wasn't a spur of the moment de
On 19/09/17 19:31, bartc wrote:
Can't you get around all those with things like sys.stdout.write?
If so, what was the point of having a discrete print statement/function
at all?
Simplicity. It is much easier to explain to a beginner that
print("Wombats are go!")
will write something to
On 9/20/17, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 02:55 pm, Pavol Lisy wrote:
Thanks Steve, I agree with most of your mail and really appreciate
interesting reading! :)
> (a) "you save one character (two keystrokes)"; and
First I have to admit that I forgot space! But if we like to be
ped
On 2017-09-19, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Chris Angelico writes:
>>On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 4:59 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>I don't get this. For example, the contractual payment (cost) is
>>>47.21
>>>, the other party hands over
>>>50.25
>>>. Now I am supposed to add /what/ to the cost?
>>Start at the sm
bartc writes:
> Value-Added-Tax in the UK increased from 17.5% to 20%, ...
When it was 17.5% you could shock people not in the know by working it
out in your head since it's much simpler than it sounds: take a tenth,
halve it, halve it again, and add all three.
--
Ben.
--
https://mail.python.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 01:06 am, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:08:18 +1000, Steve D'Aprano
> declaimed the following:
>
>>For what its worth: from Python 3.5 (I think) onwards the error you get is
>>customized:
>>
>>py> print 1
>> File "", line 1
>>print 1
>> ^
>>S
On 2017-09-19 16:30, D'Arcy Cain wrote:
> On 09/19/2017 06:46 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
>> True story - the other day I was in a store and my total was $10.12. I
>
> One time I was at a cash with three or four items which were taxable.
> The cashier rung each one up and hit the total button. She t
On 2017-09-20 17:06, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:08:18 +1000, Steve D'Aprano
> declaimed the following:
>
>> For what its worth: from Python 3.5 (I think) onwards the error you get is
>> customized:
>>
>> py> print 1
>> File "", line 1
>>print 1
>> ^
>> SyntaxE
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber
wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:08:18 +1000, Steve D'Aprano
> declaimed the following:
>
>>For what its worth: from Python 3.5 (I think) onwards the error you get is
>>customized:
>>
>>py> print 1
>> File "", line 1
>>print 1
>> ^
>
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 02:55 pm, Pavol Lisy wrote:
> On 9/19/17, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> The point is, we all make the occasional silly error. Doesn't mean we should
>> cripple our functions and fill the language with special cases like the
>> print
>> statement to avoid such rare err
On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 4:01 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> The other reserved words are either:
>
> - values, like None, which can be included in expressions;
>
> - operators, like `is`, `or`, and `not`;
>
> - block statements, like `for x in seq` or `while flag` which
> require a block;
>
> - st
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 18:43:43 -0700, Rick Johnson wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 12:55:14 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico
> wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 3:44 AM, Stefan Ram
>> wrote:
>> > Steve D'Aprano did *not* write [it was
>> > edited/abbreviated by me - S. R.]:
>> > |disadvantages:
On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 2:55 PM, Pavol Lisy wrote:
> BTW if python would only bring "from __cleverness__ import
> print_function" how many people would accept your reasons and use it?
> And how many would rewrite old code?
>
> How many people would say something like: "Oh it is cool! Now I could
>
On 9/19/17, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
[...]
> The point is, we all make the occasional silly error. Doesn't mean we should
> cripple our functions and fill the language with special cases like the
> print
> statement to avoid such rare errors. If print had always been a function,
> and
> someone sug
On 2017-09-20 01:41, Stefan Ram wrote:
Steve D'Aprano writes:
A simple "autocorrect" in *what*? The interpreter? The editor? Both?
I imagine something like this: When the editor gets the
command to run the contents of the buffer as Python,
it would then do the autocorrect in the buff
On 09/19/2017 09:37 AM, justin walters wrote:
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Grant Edwards
wrote:
On 2017-09-19, Jan Erik =?utf-8?q?Mostr=C3=B6m?=
wrote:
And I'm amazed how often I see people trying to calculate
change = sum handed over - cost
and then trying to figure out what bi
On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 1:31:52 PM UTC-5, bartc wrote:
[...]
> Can't you get around all those with things like
> sys.stdout.write?
Yes.
> If so, what was the point of having a discrete print
> statement/function at all?
I believe the original intent was to create a universal
symbo
On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 12:55:14 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 3:44 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> > Steve D'Aprano did *not* write
> > [it was edited/abbreviated by me - S. R.]:
> > |disadvantages:
> > |0 - it makes print a special thing
No more "special" than any
On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 2:08:05 AM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> [...]
> 5.6775 is a much more useful answer than Fraction(2271, 400). ("What's
> that in real money?")
Steven, you're not using floats for currency are you?
Tsk tsk!
Besides, if Python division returned a useless frac
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 04:31 am, bartc wrote:
> On 19/09/2017 17:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
[snip list of problems with print]
> Can't you get around all those with things like sys.stdout.write?
If you had kept reading, you would have seen that I wrote:
Of course an experienced Python coder ca
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:44 am, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Steve D'Aprano did *not* write
> [it was edited/abbreviated by me - S. R.]:
> |disadvantages:
> |0 - it makes print a special thing
> |1 - beginners have to unlearn
> |2 - `print(x, y)` is *not* the same as `print x, y`;
> |3 - it has bizarre synt
On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 5:45 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Chris Angelico writes:
>>On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 4:59 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>I don't get this. For example, the contractual payment (cost) is
>>>47.21
>>>, the other party hands over
>>>50.25
>>>. Now I am supposed to add /what/ to the cost?
On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 4:59 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> "Jan Erik =?utf-8?q?Mostr=C3=B6m?=" writes:
>>And I'm amazed how often I see people trying to calculate
>>change = sum handed over - cost
>>and then trying to figure out what bills/coins should be returned
>>instead of doing the simple thing of
On 19/09/2017 17:26, Larry Martell wrote:
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 10:30 AM, D'Arcy Cain wrote:
On 09/19/2017 06:46 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
True story - the other day I was in a store and my total was $10.12. I
One time I was at a cash with three or four items which were taxable. The
cashi
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Larry Martell
wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 10:30 AM, D'Arcy Cain
> wrote:
> > On 09/19/2017 06:46 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
> >>
> >> True story - the other day I was in a store and my total was $10.12. I
> >
> >
> > One time I was at a cash with three or four
On 2017-09-19, Larry Martell wrote:
> I was just in a clothing store this weekend and there was a rack of
> clothes that was 50%. The sales clerk said everything on that rack was
> an additional 25% off, so it's 75% off the original price. I asked is
> it 75% off the original price or 25% off the
On 19/09/2017 17:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 05:56 am, Roel Schroeven wrote:
I do prefer Python 3's print-as-a-function because "special cases aren't
special enough to break the rules", but I feel there's a case to be made
for Python 2's print-as-a-statement because "(altho
On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 3:44 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Steve D'Aprano did *not* write
> [it was edited/abbreviated by me - S. R.]:
> |disadvantages:
> |0 - it makes print a special thing
> |1 - beginners have to unlearn
> |2 - `print(x, y)` is *not* the same as `print x, y`;
> |3 - it has bizarre s
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 05:56 am, Roel Schroeven wrote:
> I do prefer Python 3's print-as-a-function because "special cases aren't
> special enough to break the rules", but I feel there's a case to be made
> for Python 2's print-as-a-statement because "(although) practicality
> beats purity" sometim
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Grant Edwards
wrote:
> On 2017-09-19, Jan Erik =?utf-8?q?Mostr=C3=B6m?=
> wrote:
>
> > And I'm amazed how often I see people trying to calculate
> >
> > change = sum handed over - cost
> >
> > and then trying to figure out what bills/coins should be returned
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 10:30 AM, D'Arcy Cain wrote:
> On 09/19/2017 06:46 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
>>
>> True story - the other day I was in a store and my total was $10.12. I
>
>
> One time I was at a cash with three or four items which were taxable. The
> cashier rung each one up and hit the to
On 2017-09-19, Jan Erik =?utf-8?q?Mostr=C3=B6m?= wrote:
> And I'm amazed how often I see people trying to calculate
>
> change = sum handed over - cost
>
> and then trying to figure out what bills/coins should be returned
> instead of doing the simple thing of just adding to the cost.
When
On 09/19/2017 06:46 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
True story - the other day I was in a store and my total was $10.12. I
One time I was at a cash with three or four items which were taxable.
The cashier rung each one up and hit the total button. She turned to me
and said something like "$23.42 pl
On 18/09/17 16:29, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
Steve D'Aprano writes:
To answer your question, what do I mean by int/int being undefined, I'd have to
dig into areas of maths that either weren't taught in the undergrad courses I
did, or that I've long since forgotten about. Something
about... fields?
On 19 Sep 2017, at 13:01, bartc wrote:
My bill in a store came to £3.20 (GBP3.20), so I handed over £10.20.
I was given back £16.90 in change!
It turned out the cashier had entered £20.10 as the amount tendered.
It was sorted out in the end.
Sometimes its easier not to be bother making the
"bartc" wrote in message news:EN6wB.770830$uh.63078@fx28.am4...
On 19/09/2017 11:46, Larry Martell wrote:
>
> True story - the other day I was in a store and my total was $10.12. I
> pulled out a $20, and the cashier (probably age 23 or so) immediately
> entered $20 as the amount tendered. Then
On 19/09/2017 11:46, Larry Martell wrote:
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 11:23 PM, Dan Sommers wrote:
How relevant is the "people use calculators to do arithmetic" argument
today? Okay, so I'm old and cynical, but I know [young] people who
don't (can't?) calculate a gratuity without an app or a web p
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 11:23 PM, Dan Sommers wrote:
> How relevant is the "people use calculators to do arithmetic" argument
> today? Okay, so I'm old and cynical, but I know [young] people who
> don't (can't?) calculate a gratuity without an app or a web page.
I use a calculator all the time -
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 7:31 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 17:59:10 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Aside from the backward compatibility concerns (which mean that this
>> can't be done in a language that calls itself "Python"), I'm not seeing
>> any reason that a human-friend
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 17:59:10 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Aside from the backward compatibility concerns (which mean that this
> can't be done in a language that calls itself "Python"), I'm not seeing
> any reason that a human-friendly language can't spend most of its time
> working with arbitra
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 5:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 03:23:15 +, Dan Sommers wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 01:56:29 +, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>
>>> Steve D'Aprano writes:
>>
It is true that binary floats have some unexpected properties. They
aren't the real
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 03:23:15 +, Dan Sommers wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 01:56:29 +, Stefan Ram wrote:
>
>> Steve D'Aprano writes:
>
>>>It is true that binary floats have some unexpected properties. They
>>>aren't the real numbers that we learn in maths. But most people who
>>>have been
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 01:56:29 +, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Steve D'Aprano writes:
>>It is true that binary floats have some unexpected properties. They
>>aren't the real numbers that we learn in maths. But most people who
>>have been to school have years of experience with calculators training
>>th
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 12:31 am, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> Was the result of 1/2 determined
> by a poll to find out what most people expected?
No. It was determined by the fact that a decade or more of experience with the
language demonstrated that the Python 2 behaviour was a terrible mistake and a
co
bartc writes:
> On 18/09/2017 15:04, Gregory Ewing wrote:
>> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>> Pascal
>>> provides print()/println() [okay, not /statements/ but /procedures/]
>>
>> Actually write/writeln, and although they used parens like
>> procedures, they had special syntax for output formatting
>
Steve D'Aprano schreef op 17/09/2017 20:49:
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 04:09 am, Tim Chase wrote:
So, you don't like the extra parentheses with print. But you don't mind the
parentheses in sys.stderr.write (16 chars, versus five for print) or having to
manually concatenate the strings and manually add a
Steve D'Aprano schreef op 17/09/2017 3:09:
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 04:00 am, Stefan Ram wrote:
Steve D'Aprano writes:
"Hi, I've been programming in Python for what seems like days now, and here's
all the things that you guys are doing wrong.
I never ever have written a line of Python 2. I star
Steve D'Aprano writes:
> To answer your question, what do I mean by int/int being undefined, I'd have
> to
> dig into areas of maths that either weren't taught in the undergrad courses I
> did, or that I've long since forgotten about. Something
> about... fields?
> This is a pretty specialised
On 18/09/2017 15:04, Gregory Ewing wrote:
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
Pascal
provides print()/println() [okay, not /statements/ but /procedures/]
Actually write/writeln, and although they used parens like
procedures, they had special syntax for output formatting
that wasn't available to user-defi
Steve D'Aprano writes:
> [...] try something more common:
>
> 1/2
>
> Most people aren't expecting integer division, but true division, and silently
> returning the wrong result (0 instead of 0.5) is a silent source of
> bugs.
I'm the sure that expectation depends on their background and previou
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
Pascal
provides print()/println() [okay, not /statements/ but /procedures/]
Actually write/writeln, and although they used parens like
procedures, they had special syntax for output formatting
that wasn't available to user-defined procedures, so they
were at least as sp
On 2017-09-18 03:11, Rick Johnson wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
>> Rick Johnson wrote:
>>> Steve D'Aprano wrote:
Tim Golden wrote:
[Snip: Reasons why print function is better than print statement]
I've wanted to do all those things, and more. I love the
new print function. For
On 18/09/2017 04:23, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 11:11 am, Rick Johnson wrote:
Speaking in _keystrokes_, and that's what really matters
here, a print function is always three more keystrokes than
a print statement.
Keystrokes only matter if you are hunt'n'peck typing and need to
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Steve D'Aprano
wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 11:11 am, Rick Johnson wrote:
>
>> Speaking in _keystrokes_, and that's what really matters
>> here, a print function is always three more keystrokes than
>> a print statement.
>
> Keystrokes only matter if you are hunt'n
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 11:11 am, Rick Johnson wrote:
> Speaking in _keystrokes_, and that's what really matters
> here, a print function is always three more keystrokes than
> a print statement.
Keystrokes only matter if you are hunt'n'peck typing and need to pause between
holding down the shift key
On 2017-09-18 01:41, INADA Naoki wrote:
> > > That said, I'm neither here nor there when it comes to
> > > using print-as-a-statement vs print-as-a-function. I like
> > > the consistency it brings to the language, but miss the
> > > simplicity that Py2 had for new users. I'd almost want to
> > >
>
>
> > That said, I'm neither here nor there when it comes to
> > using print-as-a-statement vs print-as-a-function. I like
> > the consistency it brings to the language, but miss the
> > simplicity that Py2 had for new users. I'd almost want to
> > get it back as a feature of the REPL, even if
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:15 am, Rick Johnson wrote:
> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 9:42:34 AM UTC-5, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 11:51 pm, Tim Golden wrote:
>>
>> [Snip: Reasons why print function is better than print statement]
>>
>> I've wanted to do all those things, and mo
MRAB wrote:
> Rick Johnson wrote:
> > Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> >> Tim Golden wrote:
> > >
> > > [Snip: Reasons why print function is better than print statement]
> > >
> > > I've wanted to do all those things, and more. I love the
> > > new print function. For the cost of one extra character,
> >
> On Sep 17, 2017, at 2:19 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:
>
>> On 9/16/17 1:38 AM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> /rant on
>>
>> So apparently everyone who disagrees that Python should be more like
>> Javascript
>> is an old greybeard fuddy-duddy yelling "Get off my lawn!" to the cool kids
>> --
>> and i
On 2017-09-17 16:15, Rick Johnson wrote:
> > I've wanted to do all those things, and more. I love the
> > new print function. For the cost of one extra character,
> > the closing bracket,
>
> Oops, _two_ characters! What about the opening "bracket"?
>>> print(len('print "hello"'))
13
>>>
On 2017-09-18 00:15, Rick Johnson wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 9:42:34 AM UTC-5, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 11:51 pm, Tim Golden wrote:
[Snip: Reasons why print function is better than print statement]
I've wanted to do all those things, and more. I love the
new print
Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> Tim Chase wrote:
>
> > On 2017-09-18 00:42, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> > > On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 11:51 pm, Tim Golden wrote:
> > > Presumably you've never wanted to print to something
> > > other than std.out. The syntax in Python 2 is horrid:
> > >
> > > print >>sys.stderr, ar
Tim Chase wrote:
> Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> > Tim Golden wrote:
> > Presumably you've never wanted to print to something other
> > than std.out. The syntax in Python 2 is horrid:
> >
> > print >>sys.stderr, args
>
> For those cases, the old syntax was sufficiently horrid
> that indeed I didn't us
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 9:42:34 AM UTC-5, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 11:51 pm, Tim Golden wrote:
>
> [Snip: Reasons why print function is better than print statement]
>
> I've wanted to do all those things, and more. I love the
> new print function. For the cost of one e
On 9/16/17 1:38 AM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
/rant on
So apparently everyone who disagrees that Python should be more like Javascript
is an old greybeard fuddy-duddy yelling "Get off my lawn!" to the cool kids --
and is also too stupid to know how dumb they are.
"Hi, I've been programming in Pytho
On 2017-09-17 14:16, bartc wrote:
> print() is used for its side-effects; what relevant value does it
> return?
depending on the sink, errors can be returned (at least for the
printf(3) C function). The biggest one I've encountered is writing
to a full disk. The return value is how many characte
On 2017-09-17 19:59, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Steve D'Aprano
wrote:
So why doesn't it return a fractions.Fraction instead? That way, you
still get "one half" instead of zero, but it's guaranteed to be
accurate. And having 1/3 be a literal meaning "one third" would
On 09/16/2017 09:59 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> On 09/16/2017 12:38 AM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> /rant on
>>
>> So apparently everyone who disagrees that Python should be more like
>> Javascript
>> is an old greybeard fuddy-duddy yelling "Get off my lawn!" to the cool kids
>> --
>> and is also too
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Steve D'Aprano
wrote:
>> So why doesn't it return a fractions.Fraction instead? That way, you
>> still get "one half" instead of zero, but it's guaranteed to be
>> accurate. And having 1/3 be a literal meaning "one third" would avoid
>> all the problems of "1/3 + 1
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 04:09 am, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 2017-09-18 00:42, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 11:51 pm, Tim Golden wrote:
>> Presumably you've never wanted to print to something other than
>> std.out. The syntax in Python 2 is horrid:
>>
>> print >>sys.stderr, args
>
> For t
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 03:00 am, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> The distinction between Python floats and real numbers ℝ is a red-herring. It
>> isn't relevant.
>
> You said:
>
(I have a degree in maths, and if we ever
covered areas where int/int was undefined, it was only briefly, and I've
>>>
On 2017-09-18 00:42, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 11:51 pm, Tim Golden wrote:
> Presumably you've never wanted to print to something other than
> std.out. The syntax in Python 2 is horrid:
>
> print >>sys.stderr, args
For those cases, the old syntax was sufficiently horrid that ind
On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Steve D'Aprano
wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:43 pm, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 5:54 PM, Steve D'Aprano
>> wrote:
>>> To even *know* that there are branches of maths where int/int isn't defined,
>>> you need to have learned aspects of mat
On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber
wrote:
> The only pocket calculators I know of that have "integers" are those
> with a "programmer's mode" -- ie; binary (displayed in
> binary/octal/decimal/hex) but needing to be converted back to "normal" if
> one wants to use them wit
On 17/09/2017 15:42, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 11:51 pm, Tim Golden wrote:
Print-as-a-function removed one small simplicity
Presumably you've never wanted to print to something other than std.out.
Actually, no. (stderror is either a Unix-ism or C-ism, or some combination).
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 11:51 pm, Tim Golden wrote:
> Print-as-a-function removed one small simplicity
Presumably you've never wanted to print to something other than std.out. The
syntax in Python 2 is horrid:
print >>sys.stderr, args
Presumably you've never wanted to print using a separator other
print >>sys.stderr, 'learn special syntax only for print?'
print('you can use keword argument not only print', file=sys.stderr)
p = functools.partial(print, file=sys.stderr)
p('you can use other mechanizms for function')
I never want to teach >> syntax for new people.
On 2017年9月17日(日) 22:55 Abdu
ah the only thing i miss in py2 very sad and it was a well heralded arg in
favour of py
print "i miss you simple print"
Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer,
Mauritius
abdurrahmaanjanhangeer.wordpress.com
On 17 Sep 2017 17:50, "Tim Golden" wrote:
>
>
> On 17/09/2017 14:34, breamore...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
On 17/09/2017 14:34, breamore...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:16:48 PM UTC+1, bartc wrote:
print can also be used for debugging, when it might be written, deleted
and added again hundreds of times. So writing all those brackets becomes
irksome. 'print' needs to be easy
i use langages that uses py with
so you have to wrap things in a function so that it will be called
i'm tired telling beginners : hey don't forget to declare your globals
don't forget don't forget and most of the time there are many ...
well they just can't declare it in the func as they ha
On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 9:34 AM, wrote:
> Experienced Python programmers use the logging module for debugging, write
> once, delete (maybe) never.
I use pdb for debugging (but I also log a lot which helps with prod
system when users report a problem).
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinf
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:16:48 PM UTC+1, bartc wrote:
>
> print can also be used for debugging, when it might be written, deleted
> and added again hundreds of times. So writing all those brackets becomes
> irksome. 'print' needs to be easy to write.
>
> --
> bartc
Experienced Pytho
On 17/09/2017 02:09, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 04:00 am, Stefan Ram wrote:
Steve D'Aprano writes:
"Hi, I've been programming in Python for what seems like days now, and here's
all the things that you guys are doing wrong.
I never ever have written a line of Python 2. I st
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:43 pm, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 5:54 PM, Steve D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> To even *know* that there are branches of maths where int/int isn't defined,
>> you need to have learned aspects of mathematics that aren't even taught in
>> most undergrad maths degr
On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 9:38 PM, Leam Hall wrote:
> Still trying to keep this Py2 and Py3 compatible.
>
> The Py2 error is:
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xf6'
> in position 8: ordinal not in range(128)
>
> even when the string is manually converted:
On 17 September 2017 at 12:38, Leam Hall wrote:
> On 09/17/2017 07:25 AM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:03 pm, Leam Hall wrote:
>>
>>> I'm still trying to figure out how to convert a string to unicode in
>>> Python 2.
>>
>>
>>
>> A Python 2 string is a string of bytes, so you
On 09/17/2017 07:25 AM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:03 pm, Leam Hall wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out how to convert a string to unicode in
Python 2.
A Python 2 string is a string of bytes, so you need to know what encoding they
are in. Let's assume you got them from a
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:03 pm, Leam Hall wrote:
> I'm still trying to figure out how to convert a string to unicode in
> Python 2.
A Python 2 string is a string of bytes, so you need to know what encoding they
are in. Let's assume you got them from a source using UTF-8. Then you would do:
mystri
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:02 pm, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote:
> as someone who really dislike js, i have to admit : python's globals are
> really really bad !
>
> js is a charm at that a real charm !
Can you explain what you think is so bad about them, and why Javascript's are
better?
--
Ste
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