Re: File names and file objects [was Re: My Python annoyances]

Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > What do people think about functions that accept either a file name or a > file object? > > def handle_file(obj): > if type(obj) == str: > need_to_close = True > obj = file(obj, 'r') > else: > need_to_close = Fals

Re: File names and file objects [was Re: My Python annoyances]

Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Fri, 04 May 2007 07:55:25 -0700, Alex Martelli wrote: What about the case where I have an array of objects that represent some particular binary file format. If the object is a file, then I want to copy its contents. If the object is a string, th

Re: Object interfaces and capabilities [was Re: File names and file objects [was Re: My Python annoyances]]

Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > What do people think about functions that accept either a file name or a > file object? > > > def handle_file(obj): > if type(obj) == str: > need_to_close = True > obj = file(obj, 'r') > else: > need_to_close = False > do_something_with

File names and file objects [was Re: My Python annoyances]

On Fri, 04 May 2007 07:55:25 -0700, Alex Martelli wrote: >> What about the case where I have an array of objects that represent some >> particular binary file format. If the object is a file, then I want to >> copy its contents. If the object is a string, then I want to write the >> string. And

Re: My Python annoyances

Terry Reedy wrote: > You don't need an invitation to disagree with another person's tracker > comment. I assumed you knew this and took non-response as acquiesence. > That (closing no response by item submitter) is a fairly typical pattern , > by the way. I wish it were otherwise. I (incorrec

Re: My Python annoyances

Ben Collver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >It is problem report #1678102. I understand the problem: that a 32 bit >number looks different in a 32 bit signed int than in a 64 bit signed >int. However, the workaround of dropping a bit seems to defeat the >purpose of using a CRC. The workaround do

Re: My Python annoyances

"Ben Collver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | In the bug report itself, See my other response to you. | Feedback in this newsgroup names my bug report as a "hobby horse", That was not directed as you but the claim by someone else that I and other reviewers are i

Re: My Python annoyances

"Ben Collver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Hi Terry, | | I understand and agree that the number was the same bit pattern. OK | I don't remember being asked to challenge this. You don't need an invitation to disagree with another person's tracker comment. I a

Re: My Python annoyances

* Ben Collver (Fri, 04 May 2007 06:40:50 -0700) > Thorsten Kampe wrote: > > He was using /Windows/ Python in Cygwin *chuckle*... Windows Python > > says Ctrl-Z because it doesn't know that it's been run from bash where > > Ctrl-Z is for job control. > > > > And the lesson we learn from that: if

Re: My Python annoyances

Alex Martelli wrote: > "Type-switching" in this way is a rather dubious practice in any > language (it can't respect the "open-closed" principle). Can't you have > those objects wrapped in suitable wrappers with a "copyorwrite" method > that knows what to do? For example, StringIO.StringIO is a s

Re: My Python annoyances

Ben Collver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Chris Mellon wrote: > > You should "check" for the methods by calling them. If the object > > doesn't support the method in question, you will get a runtime > > exception. Premature inspection of an object is rarely useful and > > often outright harmful. >

Re: My Python annoyances

Chris Mellon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I am unqualified to comment on the Python philosophy, but I would like > > > for my function to do some basic error checking on its arguments. > > > > By "basic error checking" I mean "verify that the file argument actually > > is a file-like object".

Re: My Python annoyances

Chris Mellon wrote: > You should "check" for the methods by calling them. If the object > doesn't support the method in question, you will get a runtime > exception. Premature inspection of an object is rarely useful and > often outright harmful. That makes sense, thank you for the response. What

Re: My Python annoyances

On May 4, 3:17 pm, Ben Collver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Chris Mellon wrote: ... > > Code like this is working directly against Python philosophy. You > > probably got told this on #python, too. There's hardly any > > circumstance where you should need to validate the exact class of an > > objec

Re: My Python annoyances

On 5/4/07, Ben Collver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ben Collver wrote: > > Chris Mellon wrote: > >> Code like this is working directly against Python philosophy. You > >> probably got told this on #python, too. There's hardly any > >> circumstance where you should need to validate the exact class o

Re: My Python annoyances

Ben Collver wrote: > Chris Mellon wrote: >> Code like this is working directly against Python philosophy. You >> probably got told this on #python, too. There's hardly any >> circumstance where you should need to validate the exact class of an >> object, and as long as they have the same interface

Re: My Python annoyances

Chris Mellon wrote: > #python is one of the most accepting communities around. If the bug > reports here and the way you've presented them in this thread (vs the > way that they appear to an outside observer) are any indication, > though, I'm not surprised that you might have left in a huff. > > B

Re: My Python annoyances

Thorsten Kampe wrote: > He was using /Windows/ Python in Cygwin *chuckle*... Windows Python > says Ctrl-Z because it doesn't know that it's been run from bash where > Ctrl-Z is for job control. > > And the lesson we learn from that: if you're using Windows Python use > a Windows shell. If you'r

Re: My Python annoyances

Terry Reedy wrote: > Three days after you posted, 'gagenellina' explained that he thought your > complaint was invalid. > "py> -531560245 & 0x > 3763407051L > > It's the same number (actually, the same bit pattern). ..." > > A few weeks later, noticing that you had not challenged his exp

Re: My Python annoyances

On 5/4/07, Ben Collver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Paul Boddie wrote: > > I'm sorry to hear about that. If by "macho" you mean people who insist > > that things are good enough as they are, and that newcomers should > > themselves adapt to whatever they may discover, instead of things > > being im

Re: My Python annoyances

Paul Boddie wrote: > I'm sorry to hear about that. If by "macho" you mean people who insist > that things are good enough as they are, and that newcomers should > themselves adapt to whatever they may discover, instead of things > being improved so that they are more intuitive and reliable for > ne

Re: My Python annoyances

Thorsten Kampe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >He was using /Windows/ Python in Cygwin *chuckle*... Windows Python >says Ctrl-Z because it doesn't know that it's been run from bash where >Ctrl-Z is for job control. No, if you run Windows Python from Cygwin bash CTRL-Z works as the EOF character:

Re: My Python annoyances

Thorsten Kampe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > He was using /Windows/ Python in Cygwin *chuckle*... Windows Python > says Ctrl-Z because it doesn't know that it's been run from bash where > Ctrl-Z is for job control. > > And the lesson we learn from that: if you're using Windows Python use >

Re: My Python annoyances

On May 3, 9:27 pm, "Gabriel Genellina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > En Thu, 03 May 2007 10:49:26 -0300, Ben Collver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > escribió: > > > I tried to write portable Python code. The zlib CRC function returned > > different results on architectures between 32 bit and 64 bit > >

Re: My Python annoyances

En Thu, 03 May 2007 10:49:26 -0300, Ben Collver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > I tried to write portable Python code. The zlib CRC function returned > different results on architectures between 32 bit and 64 bit > architectures. I filed a bug report. It was closed, without a comment >

Re: My Python annoyances

Terry Reedy wrote: > "John Nagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > | Ben Collver wrote: > || > from the person who closed it. I get the unspoken message: bug > reports > | > are not welcome. > > | Getting through the process requires a year or so. > > Ben got a

Re: My Python annoyances

* Paul Boddie (3 May 2007 07:27:11 -0700) > On 3 Mai, 15:49, Ben Collver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I installed Cygwin on a Windows machine. I try to quit from an > > interactive Python session. It tells me that on my platform, I must > > press Control-Z to exit. I press Control-Z and it mak

Re: My Python annoyances

"Ben Collver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] |I rewrote my code in Python and I found myself running into many of the | same hassles that I run into with other languages: inaccurate and | incomplete documentation, a maze of little platform-specific quirks to | work ar

Re: My Python annoyances

"John Nagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Ben Collver wrote: || > from the person who closed it. I get the unspoken message: bug reports | > are not welcome. | | That's the problem with bug reporting systems which let developers | close bugs arbitrarily. I

Re: My Python annoyances

André wrote: > Fortunately, Python has incorporated some newbie-unfriendly features, > like metaclasses and, to a lesser extent, decorators which, at last, > make use of a special character. There should be more of these, to > make Python something more challenging to learn. After reading the en

Re: My Python annoyances

Ben Collver wrote: > I rewrote my code in Python and I found myself running into many of the > same hassles that I run into with other languages: inaccurate and > incomplete documentation, a maze of little platform-specific quirks to > work around in the base classes, and a macho community of us

Re: My Python annoyances

On May 3, 9:27 am, Paul Boddie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 3 Mai, 15:49, Ben Collver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I rewrote my code in Python and I found myself running into many of the > > same hassles that I run into with other languages: inaccurate and > > incomplete documentation, a maz

Re: My Python annoyances

On 3 Mai, 15:49, Ben Collver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I rewrote my code in Python and I found myself running into many of the > same hassles that I run into with other languages: inaccurate and > incomplete documentation, a maze of little platform-specific quirks to > work around in the base cl

Re: My Python annoyances

I rewrote my code in Python and I found myself running into many of the same hassles that I run into with other languages: inaccurate and incomplete documentation, a maze of little platform-specific quirks to work around in the base classes, and a macho community of users. The python web site r

Re: My Python annoyances

James Stroud a écrit : (snip) > > I want to complain about the fact that I wrote 200 lines the other day > and it worked first time. Problem was, I spent 20 minutes before I > realized that the lack of errors was a result of the lack of bugs. +1 QOTW -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/

Re: My python annoyances so far

7stud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I know what you mean. I always write: > >someStringVar.len > >and then I backspace and retype: > >len(someString). > >But then again, I can never remember whether length is a member or a >method in other languages. ... or whether it's called length, size, count

Re: My Python annoyances

> Hmm, on my PyCon mug there are words "Python: so easy...even your BOSS > can use it!" Oh man! I would've killed for a mug like that a year ago. I was working for this guy, who had the entire build process automated in .BAT scripts. We spent more time fixing the build process than devoloping our

Re: My python annoyances so far

On 2007-04-27, Bruno Desthuilliers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Antoon Pardon a écrit : >> On 2007-04-27, Bruno Desthuilliers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>>7stud a écrit : >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Annoyances: > Every language has annoyances. Python is no exceptio

Re: My Python annoyances

James Stroud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > André wrote: [snipping total repost of André's post] > > I'm really annoyed at Python - and not for the reasons already > > mentioned on this list. > > > > Everyone know that programming is supposed to be a dark art, nearly > > impossible to learn.

Re: My Python annoyances

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, =?iso-8859-1?B?QW5kcuk=?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Programming should be more difficult than this - otherwise, how can >programmers be respected by the common folks? http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98/May/stroustrup.html -- Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

Re: My Python annoyances

André wrote: > I'm really annoyed at Python - and not for the reasons already > mentioned on this list. > > Everyone know that programming is supposed to be a dark art, nearly > impossible to learn. Computer code is supposed to be something > impossible to read to the common person and yet reveal

Re: My Python annoyances

> Everyone know that programming is supposed to be a dark art, nearly > impossible to learn. Computer code is supposed to be something > impossible to read to the common person and yet reveal their secrets > to the initiated - just remember the code displayed in the Matrix... Hmm, on my PyCon mug

Re: My Python annoyances

> Programming should be more difficult than this - otherwise, how can > programmers be respected by the common folks? the answer is very simple (even more simple than Python ;-) ... ... create what common folks ask for !! cheers, Stef Mientki -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-li

My Python annoyances

I'm really annoyed at Python - and not for the reasons already mentioned on this list. Everyone know that programming is supposed to be a dark art, nearly impossible to learn. Computer code is supposed to be something impossible to read to the common person and yet reveal their secrets to the ini

Re: My python annoyances so far

Antoon Pardon a écrit : > On 2007-04-27, Bruno Desthuilliers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>7stud a écrit : >> >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> Annoyances: >>> >>>Every language has annoyances. Python is no exception. >> >>Sure. But we may disagree on what are actually Python's annoyanc

Re: My python annoyances so far

On 2007-04-27, Bruno Desthuilliers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 7stud a écrit : >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> Annoyances: >>> >> >> Every language has annoyances. Python is no exception. > > Sure. But we may disagree on what are actually Python's annoyances !-) That is probably why the subje

Re: My python annoyances so far

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Well, I'd use ruby but python is everywhere, and ruby isn't. All > the applications that interest me are scriptable in python, not > ruby. Pity that you don't comment core topics. Regards, Björn -- BOFH excuse #289: Interference between the keyboard and the chair.

Re: My python annoyances so far

On 26 Apr, 21:50, Bjoern Schliessmann wrote: > > like perhaps ruby. > > If I were rude, I would ask now why you don't use ruby. But I bet > ruby has some annoyances ready for you too. > > Regards, > > Björn > Well, I'd use ruby but python is everywhere, and ruby isn't. All the applications that i

Re: My python annoyances so far

Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Perhaps you should read about the Kingdom of Nouns: > > execution-in-kingdom-of-nouns.html> Really cool. :) Thanks for sharing the link. Regards, Björn -- BOFH excuse #118: the router thinks its a printer. -- http://mai

Re: My python annoyances so far

James Stroud wrote: > Here is something on which to meditate: classes become functions > when you get the quantum mechanics just so! s/become/can behave like/ :) Regards, Björn -- BOFH excuse #27: radiosity depletion -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: My python annoyances so far

7stud a écrit : > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Annoyances: >> > > Every language has annoyances. Python is no exception. Sure. But we may disagree on what are actually Python's annoyances !-) > Post away. > Anyone that is offended can go drink a Guinness. > >> 1. Underscores! What's the deal

Re: My python annoyances so far

Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch a écrit : > In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Steven Howe > wrote: > >> And before someone get's all technical, I know everything in Python is >> an 'object' even None, which implies class, or is it the other way around? > > Objects don't imply classes. There are object oriented

Re: My python annoyances so far

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : (snip) > > Well, why do some things in the library have to be functions, and > other things have to be class methods? > Why aren't they all just either functions or class methods? like > perhaps ruby. > If I tell you that Python's functions are in fact static method

Re: My python annoyances so far

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Steven Howe wrote: > And before someone get's all technical, I know everything in Python is > an 'object' even None, which implies class, or is it the other way around? Objects don't imply classes. There are object oriented languages without classes like the Io language.

Re: My python annoyances so far

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:36:09 -0700, Alex Martelli wrote: > Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >... >> detail you shouldn't care about. Functions that cache the result of long >> time-consuming complications are _good_. > > Not necessarily -- Absolutely -- I didn't mean to imply that

Re: My python annoyances so far

On Apr 26, 9:08 am, Michael Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 7stud wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> Annoyances: > > > Every language has annoyances. Python is no exception. Post away. > > Anyone that is offended can go drink a Guinness. > > I find Guinness annoying. > -- > Michael Hof

Re: My python annoyances so far

Alex Martelli wrote: > Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >... > >>detail you shouldn't care about. Functions that cache the result of long >>time-consuming complications are _good_. > > > Not necessarily -- > > asse

Re: My python annoyances so far

Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > detail you shouldn't care about. Functions that cache the result of long > time-consuming complications are _good_. Not necessarily -- asserts the exactly opposite principle, "Do

Re: My python annoyances so far

Steve Holden wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> Hi all. I'm learning python these days. I'm going to use this thread >> to post, from time to time, my annoyances with python. I hope someone >> will clarify things to me where I have misunderstood them. >> >> Annoyances: >> 2. There are modules,

Re: My python annoyances so far

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:45:22 -0700, Steven Howe wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> Well, why do some things in the library have to be functions, and >>> other things have to be class methods? >>> > Perhaps because some things are more naturally function like? For > 'instance' (pardon the

Re: My python annoyances so far

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:07:03 -0700, flifus wrote: > Well, why do some things in the library have to be functions, and > other things have to be class methods? > > Why aren't they all just either functions or class methods? like > perhaps ruby. Perhaps you should read about the Kingdom of Nouns:

Re: My python annoyances so far

More samples from that thread: fica = Percent(7) fedtax = Percent(15) medicare = Percent(3) deductions = fica + fedtax + medicare gross = 10 net = gross - deductions print net # answer: 75000 wholesale = 10 markup = Percent(35) retail = wholesale + markup print retail # answer: 13.5 yearlyAp

Re: My python annoyances so far

On Apr 26, 1:22 pm, Jean-Paul Calderone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 26 Apr 2007 20:05:45 +0200, Neil Cerutti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > >On 2007-04-26, Steven Howe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Well, why do some things in the library have to be func

Re: My python annoyances so far

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi. You wrote c++, didn't you? Yes :) But I mostly don't anymore and ported my main project from C++ to Python. > Well, why do some things in the library have to be functions, and > other things have to be class methods? Easy. Some things abstractly operate on all kin

Re: My python annoyances so far

On Apr 25, 11:50 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi all. I'm learning python these days. I'm going to use this thread > to post, from time to time, my annoyances with python. I hope someone > will clarify things to me where I have misunderstood them. > > Annoyances: > > 1. Underscores! What's the de

Re: My python annoyances so far

On Apr 26, 6:07 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Well, why do some things in the library have to be functions, and > other things have to be class methods? > > Why aren't they all just either functions or class methods? like > perhaps ruby. A good question. Part of the answer might be that their ar

Re: My python annoyances so far

On Apr 26, 6:07 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Well, why do some things in the library have to be functions, and > other things have to be class methods? > > Why aren't they all just either functions or class methods? like > perhaps ruby. A good question. Part of the answer might be that their ar

Re: My python annoyances so far

On 26 Apr 2007 20:05:45 +0200, Neil Cerutti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On 2007-04-26, Steven Howe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, why do some things in the library have to be functions, and other things have to be class methods? >> >> Perhaps because some thi

Re: My python annoyances so far

On 2007-04-26, Steven Howe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> Well, why do some things in the library have to be functions, >>> and other things have to be class methods? > > Perhaps because some things are more naturally function like? > For 'instance' (pardon the pun), func

Re: My python annoyances so far

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, flifus wrote: > Well, why do some things in the library have to be functions, and > other things have to be class methods? > > Why aren't they all just either functions or class methods? like > perhaps ruby. To which class should `sorted()` belong to then? Or the functio

Re: My python annoyances so far

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Well, why do some things in the library have to be functions, and >> other things have to be class methods? >> Perhaps because some things are more naturally function like? For 'instance' (pardon the pun), functions shouldn't retain data. They perform an operation

Re: My python annoyances so far

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Well, why do some things in the library have to be functions, and > other things have to be class methods? They don't have to be. They just are. That's like asking why do some functions start with the letters a-m, and others with n-z. Why can't they all begin with a-m

Re: My python annoyances so far

On 26 Apr, 12:00, Bjoern Schliessmann wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Hi all. I'm learning python these days. I'm going to use this > > thread to post, from time to time, my annoyances with python. I > > hope someone will clarify things to me where I have misunderstood > > them. > > > Annoya

Re: My python annoyances so far

7stud wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Annoyances: >> > > Every language has annoyances. Python is no exception. Post away. > Anyone that is offended can go drink a Guinness. I find Guinness annoying. -- Michael Hoffman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: My python annoyances so far

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Annoyances: > Every language has annoyances. Python is no exception. Post away. Anyone that is offended can go drink a Guinness. > 1. Underscores! What's the deal with that? Especially those double > underscores. The best answer I read on this is that the double > und

Re: My python annoyances so far

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi all. I'm learning python these days. I'm going to use this thread > to post, from time to time, my annoyances with python. I hope someone > will clarify things to me where I have misunderstood them. > > Annoyances: > > 1. Underscores! What's the deal with that? Espec

Re: My python annoyances so far

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi all. I'm learning python these days. I'm going to use this > thread to post, from time to time, my annoyances with python. I > hope someone will clarify things to me where I have misunderstood > them. > > Annoyances: > > 1. Underscores! What's the deal with that? Es

Re: My python annoyances so far

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:50:53 -0700, flifus wrote: > > Hi all. I'm learning python these days. I'm going to use this thread > to post, from time to time, my annoyances with python. I hope someone > will clarify things to me where I have misunderstood them. > > Annoyances: > > 1. Underscores! Wha

Re: My python annoyances so far

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi all. I'm learning python these days. I'm going to use this thread > to post, from time to time, my annoyances with python. Please start a new thread for each annoyance. Overuse of a single thread is an annoyance to a great many people. > I hope someone > will clar

Re: My python annoyances so far

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi all. I'm learning python these days. I'm going to use this thread > to post, from time to time, my annoyances with python. I hope someone > will clarify things to me where I have misunderstood them. > > Annoyances: > > 1. Underscores! What's the deal with that? Espec

Re: My python annoyances so far

[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: > Hi all. I'm learning python these days. I'm going to use this thread > to post, from time to time, my annoyances with python. I hope someone > will clarify things to me where I have misunderstood them. > > Annoyances: > > 1. Underscores! What's the deal with that? Esp

My python annoyances so far

Hi all. I'm learning python these days. I'm going to use this thread to post, from time to time, my annoyances with python. I hope someone will clarify things to me where I have misunderstood them. Annoyances: 1. Underscores! What's the deal with that? Especially those double underscores. The be