lem will never arise.
So, I am very happy with this Python language decision -- it allows for the
most efficient means to modify a list in place and also very much reduce the
danger of aliasing bugs.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
From: Pytho
time
to linear time). And the process is straightforward enough that you could
even define a decorator that could be applied to any function you choose. I
don't have an example handy just because I never took the time to write one.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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inside of a test condition, if its usage makes the code less clear. I
interpret the PEP
has using the walrus to define a name for a particular value that would be both
tested
and reused, and not that it would be used to assign to a value that was not
being
tested (such as the a part of (a,b)).
Or in short, I do not find your choice of use-case really lines up with the
rationale
given for walrus operator. You are free to disagree with me, but fortunately,
we have
one of those PEP authors participating in this list regularly if you want his
opinion.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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just compelled to create tuple and lists
in all of your use-cases, even when they serve no purpose.
Roger Christman
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se as described in its PEP
just as it is, and I see no compelling reason to expand its use.
It is there to reduce code size by eliminating a duplication of code,
If the code you write using the walrus operator is longer or more
complicated than the code would be without it, you are misusing it.
R
e was this ".=" token
somewhere earlier in the program statement.
Besides, I could foresee a lot of programming
errors when people would start to generalize this
operation to do things like:
list .= append(item)
list .= sort()
which would most certainly be incorrect.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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or object.
If you still end up with a large number of independent parameters,
I would question the simplicity of your function's intent.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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Emending my own note from moments ago:
def any_as_dict(*args, **kwargs):
if len(args) == 0:
my_dict = kwargs
elif type(args[0]) == type(dict()):
my_dict = args[0]
else:
my_dict = dict(args[0])
print(type(my_dict),my_dict)
>>> any_as_dict(a=1,b=2)
{'a': 1, 'b': 2}
>>> any_as_dict({'a':1, 'b':2}
x27;: 2}
>>> any_as_dict([('a',1), ('b',2)])
{('a', 1): ('b', 2)}
>>> any_as_dict({('a',1), ('b',2)})
{('b', 2): ('a', 1)}
This seems to address your apparent definition of
"key-value pairs&
e dictionary
in the first place. Is it practical to have the entire
dictionary statically defined?
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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tle tangent of mine doesn't seem to apply to your situation
at all,
and I don't there is a 'single' language element in any programming language I
can think
of that does what you ask -- so stick with the cleaner: if (__): # loop; else:
#don't loop
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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half the students away in the very first class, just
trying to configure their development environment.
If that's impossible, then I guess I'll have to fire a note off to the
university tech support requesting them to play with that "Start In" option
through %AppData%, or whatever it was.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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eryk sun responded:
On 11/12/18, Christman, Roger Graydon wrote:
>
> I looked in IDLE's own configuration menu, and didn't see anything there --
> and I fear that I might have to fight some Windows settings somewhere else
> instead. I th
't see anything there -- and
I fear that I might have to fight some Windows settings somewhere else instead.
I think this is Windows 10.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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t to.
The * and ** prefixes really should be avoided as much as possible,unless you
know exactly what you are getting out of them.
Roger ChristmanPennsylvania State University
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dictionary.
You would just need to get a dictionary Reader from the csv module,
import urllib.request
import io, csv
file = urllib.request.urlopen(site + filename)
data = io.TextIOWrapper(file, newline="", encoding="utf-8")
reader = csv.DictReader(data)
for row in reade
ting at all.
So if you have a program that can get by leaving unused memory
allocated, and can still terminate the program before all the memory
is claimed, your reference count system is far less efficient than
relying on a garbage collector that happens to not get activated
before your program ends.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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On Sat, Dec 16, 2017, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >
Chris Angelico :
>
>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 11:41 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram):
>> As a start, one should learn:
>>
>> 1.) how to install Python
>> (if not already installed)
>>
>> 2.) how to st
#include?
>From my experience, both as instructor and student, with
introductory programming courses with half a dozen different
first languages to use for those courses, I think C++ is one
of the worst choices! (In my humble opinion, of course)
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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t of the responses
I see did attempt to work within the perceived constraints
regarding what language tools the student was expected to use.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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choosing implementations that require 5, 10, or 20 times as much
code as necessary. The increase in program size would have a multiplicative
effect on writing time and debugging time and would have an adverse affect
on a course grade, product delivery date, customer satisfaction, and
job security.
So learn how to find the efficient solutions now while you still have
instructors around to help you.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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I think I also came up with 4 as "the most frequent number".
It is unclear ot me how you came up with 3.36 as the most common number,
because I tried rolling a six-sided die myself several times,
and somehow 3.36 didn't come up even once!
On Wed, Dec 6, 2017, D'Arcy Cain wrote:
>
On 12/05/2017 0
ed statements that follow them.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 Cai Gengyang wrote:
>
>Message: 38
>Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 04:54:21 -0800 (PST)
>From: Cai Gengyang
>Subject: While, If, Count Statements
>Message-ID:
>Content-Type: text/pl
indented statements
that follow them.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 Cai Gengyang wrote:
>
>Message: 38
>Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 04:54:21 -0800 (PST)
>From: Cai Gengyang
>Subject: While, If, Count Statements
>Message-ID:
>Content-Type: text/pl
S your V's.
I'm thinking that is the first place you should look.
You could either modify your data file (with a nice global replace/change)
or you could give a different value to one of the default parameters
to the functions you use to open the file.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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1].
Python allows these loopholes in with the expectation that the programmer
should know better. I think the same thing would be true with constants.
If you need this crutch to protect yourself from accidentally clobbering
constants,
then do better. If you only need it to for documentation purposes, just tweak
the documentation.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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any of the posters
here appear commonly enough to place the spirit of a particular
post in the context of their general presentation style.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017, Gregory Ewing wrote:But ideas are not software -- they
don't actively
*do* anything,
ters in itertools)
And I see that simply removing 'break' from my vocabulary, this
whole 'else on a loop' issue completely dissolves.
So thank you for, even unintentionally, helping me to feel good
about living inside my ivory tower!
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State Unive
now a variable
in my program's memory (all of the data),
instead of streamlike. I suppose I did read
somewhere about setting a stream option.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
Forwarded Message
Just a quick question on how best to read a
ut the utf-8 encoding,
but although I find that as an option for a local file (with open())
I did not see that on my first glance at the two functions above.
Is there an easy way to read a remove CSV file with utf-8 encoding
without copying the whole file locally first?
Roger Christman
Pennsylv
ample with "\\" in one case,
and r"\\" in the other case. These are not equal to each other,
and naturally would not give equal results from your function.
So that leads to the second possibility that you are not calling
the function in the same way.
In either case, you cannot blame the function for giving you
different results if you give it different data.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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an Implicit" in the example cited.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
On Sun, Oct 29, 2017, Setfan Ram wrote: >
=?UTF-8?B?zqPPhM6tz4bOsc69zr/PgiDOo8+Jz4bPgc6/zr3Or86/z4U=?=
writes:
>>I guess the following parts from "Zen of Python" apply to this case:
>
>
ot;main"?
I guess I'm not stuck on that habit, since my programming experiences
go way back to the old Fortran days
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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a Python data structure,
it should also be pickleable.
The "Json.org" web site should give you a place to download the modules
you would need for each of the two languages. Hope this helps.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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r way.
We don't need any annotations or attributes or whatnot if we have
the perfectly normal function documentation.
Or is that kind of habit no longer practiced in 'the real world'?
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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set a breakpoint at the very bottom of a function when debugging.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 12:26 AM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 12:26:07 +1100
>From: Steve D'Aprano
>To: python-list@python.org
>
itself has one entry (the exception)
and one exit. And, unlike goto's and set_jmp()
is easiliy incorporated into other control structures
depending on where you want to go after any recovery steps.
The code that generated the exception, of course, seemingly
has more than one exit, but exceptions are just that --
exceptions. I hope you don't start using counting loops
up to 2**64 to visit a 100 element array and rely on
IndexError to exit such a loop.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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t mind having
wo function calls in that one line of code.
If you want only one function call and you want to do even more
substitutions than just those below, there is another handy functionin the
string object that can do so very nicely.
What did you try?
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
a language like that somewhere around this forum.
But I like it anyway
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 12:07 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 00:21:46 -0400, Bill
>declaimed the following:
>
>>PL-I has already been taken. That
addition, and
the rug gets pulled out from under them.There is no visible quantity
of 1, 2, or 3 in those circles and diamonds; and probably no 1, 2, or 3
in the children's game either.
How is it any surprise that they did not figure out the children's game
as quickly?
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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ve an exercise to do a
string
translation, using an ugly 12-way if-else construct nested within a loop where
a dictionary would very easily trim the if-else and str.translate() would
eliminate the loop.
(This is fresh in my mind because I plan to illustrate both their solution
and mine in
e is a better way to access the elements of a list than
counting
down the subscripts.
I still see a lot of instructors and programmers who newly migrate to Python
that use counting a range() as their first choice in traversing a list.
Teaching the for loop without using range, I believe, is t
st):
File "", line 1, in
p.__slots__ = ['x','y','z']
AttributeError: 'any' object attribute '__slots__' is read-only
Oh, and here's a little thing from the Python 3.6.2 Glossary:
__slots__
A declaration inside a class that saves memory by pre-declaring space for
instance attributes and
eliminating instance dictionaries. Though popular, the
technique is somewhat tricky to get right and
is best reserved for rare cases
where there are large numbers of instances in a memory-critical application.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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7;d rather keep my course content small and simple.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
>
>
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you're joking. So for the humour-impaired: THIS POST WAS A
>JOKE. Okay? Good.)
>
>
Gotta watch out for all those Islamic extremists.
Somewhere along the line when I wasn't paying attention,
they got us all using Arabic numerals.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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, I would expect the filter to be a lazy application
to the iterable you are filtering, so anything that removes
from your iterable is going to cause you filter so skip something.
That can also be fixed by copying the iterable first.
Or alternatively, you can go more functional and instead
create a new iterable set of data from the old, instead of
mutating what you have.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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randomly perturb the code instead.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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bout what happens when we do "b = c"
in the non-Python languages and in Python.
>From the ordering of the notes in this forum, I will just assume
you did not get a chance to read it before this post I am responding to.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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s to (assuming c has been assigned).
But in C++, that statement would be completely invalid -- once you
associate a reference to a reference variable, you cannot change
the binding.This further emphasizes that the statement "int &b = a"
is not an assignment statement, which means it is rather irrelevant
to the semantics of assignment statements.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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d_to_self(x)
# x is still 5
is 'arg' a value parameter or a reference parameter?
Can you replicate this behavior in Pascal without any if statement,
since, as you say, the semantics are wholly contained by
those of Pascal (aside from the += operator itself not
appearing in the Pascal la
ty data base
would happen only once at program startup, after which it
behaves just like an 'existing collection' with less data?
As someone else pointed out, your tests along the lines of
if how_to_insert == 'new collection':
are error prone, just from typing errors.
On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 12:03 PM, Dennis Lee Bier wrote:>
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 23:30:34 +1000, Steve D'Aprano
>
declaimed the following:
>
>The exercise is to demonstrate pass by reference semantics. That requires
>
>demonstrating the same semantics as the Pascal swap procedure:
>
>
>
>procedure swa
n the student would write he was unable to actually
compute that without a calculator. And yes, I deliberately
designed the questions to have such easy numbers to work with.
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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tenating strings and formatting data.
Roger Christman
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object
whose inventory included several rooms, so as the ship moved,
so did everything on board.
And there was no GUI required for it -- so no issues there.
It's been a couple decades or so, but that interpreted object-oriented
language LPC might still be out there somewhere.
asing, of course, since most assignment
operationscreate aliases. But at least it's nice to know that aliasing
immutable valuesis harmless. Hence my unit on building recursive data
structures entirelyout of tuples.
Roger ChristmanPennsylvania Sate University
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>Does a poor job AFAIAC of explaining the difference between foo and bar in
foll def foo(x): x += 2
def bar(x): x.append(2)
a=10
b=[10]
foo(a)
a
>10
bar(b)
b
>[10, 2]
Or with just one function: >>> def baz(x,y):
x += y
>>> a = 10
>>> b = [10]
>>> baz(a
Just a couple minor notes from my experience:
1)
Some of the course management software I use doesn't like me typing tab
characters.
When I want to post sample code into a course page using this software, tabs
are either
ignored or does something really broken (like post an incomplete file). So,
size )', number=1, globals='test')
That tells me the namespace isn't supposed to be a string
test.__dict__ is just an empty dictionary
so where do I find 'sorter', 'array', and 'size'?
Roger Christman
Pennsylvania State University
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port iteration, but then is no better than a
dict in any way, except for maybe some rare operation like
"identify the minimal value"
Roger Christman
instructor
Pennsylvania State Universtiy
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On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:46 AM, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN <https://webmail.psu.edu/webmail/retrieve.cgi?mailbox=inbox&mid=CAO1D73Eho37guUZkM6Kk9Nu5WB43oN721G33XGNis0LhSu7xVQ%40mail%2egmail%2ecom&cmd=view&start_num=10800&limit=50&sort=0&display=4&headers=default&
squeeze the 'yield node._value' in between them.
Is there hope for a linear-time tree-traversal generator, or will
I have just have to settle for an n-log-n generator or a linear time
behavior with linear extra space?
Roger Christman
instructor
Pennsylvania State University
--
https:/
ss.
I think this is very much like me defining methods __iter__ and __next__
and voila, I've turned something into an iterator by witch -- er.. duck-typing!
Perhaps she inherited her weight from her latent duckness.
Thoughts?
Roger Christman
On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 06:27 PM, python-list@pyt
etc.
I do grant that ultimately, the duck does come into play, since the witch
weighs the same as a duck.
Roger Christman
Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Pennsylvania State University
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I agree that some of Python is simple but the description of subprocess is
certainly not.
I spent much of my working career using Fortran and TrueBasic on mainframes.
I'd like programming to be more like holding a discussion to the computer
in English instead of Sanscrit.
Roger
On Sun,
Do you have the Instructor Solutions Manual for these two text books?
Fundamentals of Fluid Mechanics, 5th Edtion, Munson, young, Okiishi
Chemical Engineering Fluid Mechanics, 2nd Edition, Ron Darby
Thanks.
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ple Python scripts of how to do it somewhere?
Any ideas appreciated!
Cheers
Roger Zimmerman
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omeone else has already figured out how to make this happen,
> please let me know.
Pywin32 has an odbc module that works with Python 3.2.
Roger
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Thanks everybody, got it working.
I appreciate the help!
Roger.
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= read(1)
File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/socket.py", line 380, in read
data = self._sock.recv(left)
socket.error: [Errno 107] Transport endpoint is not connected
I'm at a loss, can anyone provide any guidance?
Thanks,
Roger Alexander
1 import pickle
2 import socke
But it seems like it should be possible to do this without
writing the Python code to a file. I tried PyRun_String, but I can't
see how it
can be used to return a tuple (the Py_file_input option always returns
None).
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Roger House
Software Developer
Martin P. Hellwig schrieb:
On 02/16/11 09:04, Arndt Roger Schneider wrote:
[snip]
tkpath does not seem to come standard with Python's tk version when I
looked into it a couple of years ago, but maybe it has now?
tk canvas and tkpath share the same interface, the first tkpath was
a p
/pictures/overview.svg
The svg on those page gets on-demand converted into flash,
for the internet explorer.
Is there anyting else You want to know about svg?
-roger
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n: Get rid of bitmap fonts under X11.
BTW the default fonts under Linux are:
bitstream vera sans (for helvetica)
bitstream vera (for times)
and bitstream vera sans mono (for courier).
In my opion those bitstream fonts are much better
than the mentioned Adobe fonts.
-roger
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...
-roger
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ome derivitave there of.
Do you have first hand experience with it under AQUA?
I think Tk-aqua (also 8.6) should work out-of-the-box
with brail-lines, text-to-speech and such;
the older carbon built however wont...
-roger
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Adam Skutt schrieb:
On Jan 18, 8:09 am, Arndt Roger Schneider
wrote:
Back to rantingrick 21st century toolkit/framwork:
Let's have a look at the numbers:
Worlwide pc market are 300 Million pcs per year,
this number includes desktops(2/3) and servers(1/3).
Your gui app is not releva
rantingrick schrieb:
On Jan 18, 12:25 pm, Arndt Roger Schneider
wrote:
rantingrick schrieb:
On Jan 18, 7:09 am, Arndt Roger Schneider
We DO need to consider the mobile market in this decision. Maybe it is
time for us to actually get on the cutting edge of GUI's. Maybe we
should he
rantingrick schrieb:
On Jan 18, 7:09 am, Arndt Roger Schneider
wrote:
Summary wxWidgets:
wxWidgets is large scale C++ library from the 20th century,
solemnly dedicated toward desktop computers.
wxWidgets originates from a time before templates
were used in C++ and thus duplicates many of
Octavian Rasnita schrieb:
From: "Arndt Roger Schneider"
At least keep the disclaimer:
>> Well, tosssing screenshots around doesn't prove wether
>> a framwork/toolkit is good or not;
>> It only displays the developers commitment to create
>> a work of a
duplicates many of
today's C++ features.
wxWidgets is not suitable for a modern type
GUI ad thus clearly not the toolkit/framework
of the 21st century.
-roger
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Tim Harig schrieb:
[snip]
This isn't such a tragedy Erlang as it is for other managed VMs because
Erlang/BEAM makes powerful usage of its VM for fault tolerance mechanisms. I
don't know of any other VM that allows software upgrades on a running system.
styx, the distributed operating system i
GUI and pyjamas existing side by side in mutual
harmony for many years.
pyjamas: Perhaps without javascript.
-roger
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Hi JM,
Thank you very much for your followup explanation!
Roger
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Thanks for the clarification on exceptions, Chris!
Roger
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On Nov 16, 11:19 pm, Ned Deily wrote:
> Interesting. It appears that OS X 10.6 takes into account the ...
Thanks very much for your thorough explanation, Ned! I think I've got
what I need now.
Roger
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> Completely off topic but I think the try clause could be rewritten that way:
> ...
> Don't use bare except clause, you're masking syntax errors for instance,
> which will be flagged as 'unexpected error in generation ...".
> In a more general manner, if something unexpected happens it's better t
Thanks, Ned! That really helps to explain what is going on. Now, just
a couple more questions and I think I will know all I need to know.
First, I *still* don't quite understand why this happens with my 2.6.6
interpreter but not my 2.6.1, and why another of the respondents to
this thread (Chris) c
ting code does not work I will investigate
psutil further.
Thanks!
Roger
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Thanks, Chris, you're at least on the right track. I did upgrade from
python.org and the python in my shell PATH is /Library/Frameworks/
Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python:
% python
Python 2.6.6 (r266:84374, Aug 31 2010, 11:00:51)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5493)] on darwin
/usr/bin/pytho
ng both commands directly in a
Terminal window running tcsh.
Can anyone explain this? Thanks!
Roger Davis
# code follows
#!/usr/bin/python
import sys
import subprocess
def main():
psargs= ["/bin/ps", "-e"]
try:
ps= subprocess.Pop
Thanks for that info, Ned, I can now get the sys.argv[] list I need,
that's a big help! However, is there any other way to set a breakpoint
in idle that will work on Mac OS X, maybe entering a manual command
somewhere with a specified line number? Inability to set a breakpoint
is an absolute showst
), it only
adds a line-break into the source code. Any suggestions?
Thanks!
Roger Davis
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Many thanks to all who responded to my question! It's nice to know, as
someone new to Python, that there are lots of well-informed people out
there willing to help with such issues.
Thanks, Mike, for your pipes suggestion, I will keep that in mind for
future projects.
Seebs, you are of course cor
Hi, I am new to this group, please forgive me if this is a repeat
question. I am a new Python programmer but experienced in C/Unix. I am
converting a shell script to Python which essentially loops
infinitely, each pass through the loop running commands like
set output = `cat this | grep that
theming engine under windows xp and later,
but also allows you to supplant this engine.
The related ttk theme is called "classic".
-roger
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As I plan to study JSP, I find it extremly complicated and a part of
J2EE.
I did not attend to get the whole of J2EE.
I hope anybody can describe the future of JSP.
Is there a place for JSP?
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l.
The mony part is definitly important. Tk is actually a good example for
the working of money-politics (the absence thereof).
-roger
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tree
hugelist
tkTreeCtrl (mentioned above)
ttk:treectrl
tablelist
tixtreecontrol
Just scanning the docs of a module (that you know jack about) and then
parroting off some baseless arguments are bound to bite you in the
@ss! *egg on face*
Please enjoy it.
-roger
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Terry Reedy schrieb:
On 6/7/2010 5:25 PM, Arndt Roger Schneider wrote:
Terry Reedy schrieb:
...
Hah, You are ill-informed.
How about 'under-informed'? That I readily admit ;-)
tkpath 0.3 contains a surface element, which renders vector graphics
elements in an off-scree
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