Ian Kelly wrote:
Generally speaking,
the way configure checks for features is by writing a short program that
uses the feature and trying to compile it.
And it uses that approach because it's designed to cope with
the unix world, where things are nowhere near as neat and tidy
as being able to j
Steve D'Aprano writes:
> When I first started using Python in version 1.5, among the many Unixes
> supported were:
>
Even before that (1.3, IIRC), NeXT machines, either the Motorola-based cubes
or Intel PC, PyObjC originated there :-). May some god bless the autoconf
people!
ciao, lele.
--
nic
On 18/05/2017 01:19, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Thu, 18 May 2017 07:47 am, Ian Kelly wrote:
Because, as has already been stated, there's no way to make such a simple
process cross-platform.
Please understand that Bart's understanding of cross-platform and the Python
community's understanding of
Thanks to all for the prompt replies. I look forward to trying both
approaches.
I wasn't aware that subpackages such as numpy.random and such could be imported
after numpy was imported at the top level. For some reason I thought it would
cause confusion.
The functools.reduce and class ap
On 17/05/2017 23:32, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 8:21 AM, bartc wrote:
My own approach with the standard library is that I just use what is
provided by the OS (so msvcrt.dll or libc.so.6).
I expect Tiny C does the same as it doesn't appear to come with any
libraries of its ow
On Thu, 18 May 2017 01:37 am, bartc wrote:
> No, not like that. I mean genuinely simple. Your example:
>
> (1) Doesn't work on Windows
> (2) Usually seems to involve executing 20,000 to to 30,000 lines of
> complete gobbledygook in that configuration script.
>
> That can't possibly be justified.
On Thu, 18 May 2017 06:05 am, breamore...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> What is the problem with the documentation given here
> https://docs.python.org/devguide ?
>
> Specifically:-
>
> "and on Windows use:
>
> PCbuild\build.bat -e -d"
>
>
> That is 24 key strokes, including ENTER, to do the build
On Thu, 18 May 2017 07:47 am, Ian Kelly wrote:
> Because, as has already been stated, there's no way to make such a simple
> process cross-platform.
Please understand that Bart's understanding of cross-platform and the Python
community's understanding of cross-platform are different.
Bart's unde
On 05/17/2017 04:21 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> One of the complaints that bartc raised against clang was that it's
> not self-contained - that it depends on some other stdlib. Yet he
> espouses a tiny C compiler that obviously has the same limitation. On
> my Linux boxes, I can grab GNU libc; but
On 05/17/2017 04:32 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 8:21 AM, bartc wrote:
>> My own approach with the standard library is that I just use what is
>> provided by the OS (so msvcrt.dll or libc.so.6).
>>
>> I expect Tiny C does the same as it doesn't appear to come with any
>> lib
On 05/17/2017 03:56 PM, bartc wrote:
> It sounds more like CPython is written in assembly code rather than C.
> Why don't the C language, C compilers and their optimisers take care of
> these concerns?
No endianness definitely is something you as a programmer have to be
aware of in any language
On 05/17/2017 04:32 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 8:21 AM, bartc wrote:
>> My own approach with the standard library is that I just use what is
>> provided by the OS (so msvcrt.dll or libc.so.6).
>>
>> I expect Tiny C does the same as it doesn't appear to come with any
>> lib
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 05/17/2017 02:31 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:
>> Can you give an example of such a method? Often, that signature is used
>> because there is no pre-conception of what the arguments might be.
>
> I'm not sure if this afflicts the standard lib
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 8:21 AM, bartc wrote:
> My own approach with the standard library is that I just use what is
> provided by the OS (so msvcrt.dll or libc.so.6).
>
> I expect Tiny C does the same as it doesn't appear to come with any
> libraries of its own.
Well, msvcrt.dll isn't the whole
On 17/05/2017 21:49, Chris Angelico wrote:
Before you can build CPython with Tiny C, you need to be sure that Tiny C can:
1) malloc and free arbitrary blocks of memory
2) open and close files and do other file system operations
It would be a bit limiting if it couldn't! Tiny C isn't a toy (I
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
> Am 16.05.17 um 09:53 schrieb Chris Angelico:
>>
>> On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Christian Gollwitzer
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> More likely would be the option to ship a C compiler with Python written
>>> in
>>> C. For C++ this is way too
On 05/17/2017 02:31 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:
> Can you give an example of such a method? Often, that signature is used
> because there is no pre-conception of what the arguments might be.
I'm not sure if this afflicts the standard library, but in my own code,
since Python doesn't support construc
Am 16.05.17 um 09:53 schrieb Chris Angelico:
On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
More likely would be the option to ship a C compiler with Python written in
C. For C++ this is way too big, but a pure C compiler can be as small as
1MB. tcc has a liberal license, supports
On 17/05/2017 22:40, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 6:52 AM, bartc wrote:
determines whether your system has the required
compilers and libraries, figures out what source files should be
compiled, and calculates the order in which to build the source files.
Yes! That's what I
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 2:52 PM, bartc wrote:
>
> On 17/05/2017 21:17, Michael Torrie wrote:
>>
>> On 05/17/2017 01:32 PM, bartc wrote:
>>>
>>> Sometimes, if there's a problem. But usually the code is doing something
>>> sensible. The stuff in configure is complete gobbledygook (if anyone
>>> does
On 05/17/2017 02:52 PM, bartc wrote:
> On 17/05/2017 21:17, Michael Torrie wrote:
>> On 05/17/2017 01:32 PM, bartc wrote:
>>> Sometimes, if there's a problem. But usually the code is doing something
>>> sensible. The stuff in configure is complete gobbledygook (if anyone
>>> doesn't believe me, jus
On 17/05/2017 21:39, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 5:32 AM, bartc wrote:
It is impossible that all this is needed just to figure out what source
files need to be compiled. (If it generated CPython sources fractal-style,
then I might be impressed, but doesn't.)
I love how abs
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 6:52 AM, bartc wrote:
>> determines whether your system has the required
>> compilers and libraries, figures out what source files should be
>> compiled, and calculates the order in which to build the source files.
>
>
> Yes! That's what I need!
>
> But either this informat
On 17/05/2017 21:17, Michael Torrie wrote:
On 05/17/2017 01:32 PM, bartc wrote:
Sometimes, if there's a problem. But usually the code is doing something
sensible. The stuff in configure is complete gobbledygook (if anyone
doesn't believe me, just have look).
Well trying to edit an executable i
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:43 PM, justin walters
wrote:
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:59 PM, BT wrote:
>
> > Hi guys,
> > I am fairly new to programming. I was just trying to understand how this
> > group works. Am i allowed to ask any questions that I may have when i get
> > stuck? I mean is this
BT writes:
> I am fairly new to programming. I was just trying to understand how
> this group works. Am i allowed to ask any questions that I may have
> when i get stuck? I mean is this group for new programmers as well..?
Welcome. Yes, it's for pretty much any questions about Python
programmin
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 5:59 AM, BT wrote:
> I am fairly new to programming. I was just trying to understand how this
> group works. Am i allowed to ask any questions that I may have when i get
> stuck? I mean is this group for new programmers as well..?
>
Hi! Yes, it is, but if you're really R
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 6:27 AM, bartc wrote:
> I'll repeat what I said before: I don't want to build CPython with VS2015. I
> wanted to build it with Tiny C.
>
> The purpose of doing the latter was to evaluate what the performance might
> be, if for example Tiny C became the bundled C compiler so
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:59 PM, BT wrote:
> Hi guys,
> I am fairly new to programming. I was just trying to understand how this
> group works. Am i allowed to ask any questions that I may have when i get
> stuck? I mean is this group for new programmers as well..?
> Thanks
> --
> https://mail.p
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 5:32 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 17/05/2017 17:23, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:37 AM, bartc wrote:
>>>
>>> On 17/05/2017 15:13, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>
>> [1] Does work on Windows. Install bash for Windows, or (on a
>> recent-enough Windows) just use
On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 5:48:30 AM UTC-4, Cem Karan wrote:
> On May 16, 2017, at 12:36 PM, rzed wrote:
>
> > On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 6:02:58 AM UTC-4, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> >> One of the more controversial aspects of the Python ecosystem is the Python
> >> docs. Some people love them,
On 17/05/2017 21:05, breamore...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 8:32:40 PM UTC+1, bartc wrote:
On 17/05/2017 17:23, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:37 AM, bartc wrote:
On 17/05/2017 15:13, Chris Angelico wrote:
[1] Does work on Windows. Install bash for Wind
On 05/17/2017 01:32 PM, bartc wrote:
> Sometimes, if there's a problem. But usually the code is doing something
> sensible. The stuff in configure is complete gobbledygook (if anyone
> doesn't believe me, just have look).
Well trying to edit an executable in a disassembler would look like
goblig
Hi guys,
I am fairly new to programming. I was just trying to understand how this group
works. Am i allowed to ask any questions that I may have when i get stuck? I
mean is this group for new programmers as well..?
Thanks
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 17/05/2017 17:23, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:37 AM, bartc wrote:
On 17/05/2017 15:13, Chris Angelico wrote:
[1] Does work on Windows. Install bash for Windows, or (on a
recent-enough Windows) just use the subsystem that Microsoft provides.
So the answer is, switch t
Cem Karan wrote, on Wednesday, May 17, 2017 2:48 AM
>
> On May 16, 2017, at 12:36 PM, rzed wrote:
>
> > On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 6:02:58 AM UTC-4, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> >> One of the more controversial aspects of the Python
> ecosystem is the
> >> Python docs. Some people love them, and so
>> Yes, it is listed under the "Other useful packages and applications not
>> currently available on this page" section. Its home page (
>> https://github.com/mehcode/python-xmlsec ) does not tell how to install
>> it on windows.
> *facepalm* Sorry about that. I just automatically went to the page
On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:14:10 AM UTC-7, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> I think the problem is ambiguous as stated. There are many planes
> you could pick through the centre of mass that divides the atoms
> into two groups. Some other rule is needed to decide which is the
> "right" one.
I took the
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:37 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 17/05/2017 15:13, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 11:53 PM, bartc wrote:
>
>
>>> That's all true. But the answer is not to make it a nightmare for
>>> everyone
>>> else as well as yourself. If the requirement is to get other p
On 17/05/2017 16:06, Rhodri James wrote:
On 17/05/17 14:53, bartc wrote:
It doesn't work. I can post something that is easy to compile, but
someone is going to say, Ah, but it doesn't do this, it doesn't do that,
it doesn't work on X...
"Few people seem to see the point in making that effort
On Wednesday 17 May 2017 02:31:04 Deborah Swanson wrote:
> > Chris Angelico wrote, on Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:50 PM
> >
> > > For the person who's using it, or for all the malware authors
> > > who are gleefully using your computer as their own
> > > playground? It certainly is a fine operating sy
On 17/05/2017 15:13, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 11:53 PM, bartc wrote:
That's all true. But the answer is not to make it a nightmare for everyone
else as well as yourself. If the requirement is to get other people to build
your product from source for the purpose of using i
On 17/05/17 14:53, bartc wrote:
On 17/05/2017 13:35, Rhodri James wrote:
On 17/05/17 01:41, bartc wrote:
As a cross-platform developer, I find your naivity refreshing. If only
life were so simple.
When you develop code yourself, you can lay out your files however you
find most convenient, c
> Chris Angelico wrote, on Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:50 PM
> > For the person who's using it, or for all the malware authors
> > who are gleefully using your computer as their own
> > playground? It certainly is a fine operating system for the latter.
> >
> > ChrisA
>
> Nobody's used my XP for a m
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 11:53 PM, bartc wrote:
> On 17/05/2017 13:35, Rhodri James wrote:
>>
>> On 17/05/17 01:41, bartc wrote:
>
>
>> As a cross-platform developer, I find your naivity refreshing. If only
>> life were so simple.
>>
>> When you develop code yourself, you can lay out your files ho
On 17/05/2017 14:53, bartc wrote:
Note: none of these three projects is written in C. C is used as an
intermediate language for the convenience, for ...
For the 'convenience of others' that should be before it was badly edited.
Not for me, as using C, even just generating C, is a pain in the
On 17/05/2017 13:35, Rhodri James wrote:
On 17/05/17 01:41, bartc wrote:
As a cross-platform developer, I find your naivity refreshing. If only
life were so simple.
When you develop code yourself, you can lay out your files however you
find most convenient, code to the foibles of your compil
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Nagy László Zsolt
wrote:
>>> So is there a way to do this? I would prefer a cross platform solution,
>>> but I'll do whatever it takes.
>> You might be in luck: xmlsec appears to be in this list:
>>
>> http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/
>>
>> I don't know
>> So is there a way to do this? I would prefer a cross platform solution,
>> but I'll do whatever it takes.
> You might be in luck: xmlsec appears to be in this list:
>
> http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/
>
> I don't know anything about it, though, so you'll have to try it and see.
Yes,
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:51 PM, Nagy László Zsolt
wrote:
> Is there a library that handles SOAP and wsee (with x509 signed
> requests) on Windows platform?
>
> I went through a few. Suds is not supported anymore. py-wsee depends on
> libxml2 that has no windows port. zeep is great, except that
Is there a library that handles SOAP and wsee (with x509 signed
requests) on Windows platform?
I went through a few. Suds is not supported anymore. py-wsee depends on
libxml2 that has no windows port. zeep is great, except that x509
cannot be used unless xmlsec library is installed. I could not b
On 17/05/17 01:41, bartc wrote:
On 17/05/2017 00:24, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 9:01 AM, bartc wrote:
You mean like wheel files? Yeah, whodathunk. They don't need a C
compiler or anything.
I don't know if that's the same kind of thing. I'm not talking about
something lik
On 17/05/2017 02:18, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:41 AM, bartc wrote:
On 17/05/2017 00:24, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 9:01 AM, bartc wrote:
You mean like wheel files? Yeah, whodathunk. They don't need a C
compiler or anything.
I don't know if tha
Terry Reedy writes:
> If you merely want to download and compile, you only need about 2 git
> commands: 'clone' and the
> fetch-merge command. The devguide intros may be enough. Creating patches is
> much more
> complex.
Or just a few clicks on the github.com project, and download a plain zi
We have received an amazing collection of proposals. Thank you all for
your submissions ! Given the overwhelming quality of the proposals, we
had some very difficult decisions to make. Nonetheless we are happy to
announce we have published the first 140+ sessions.
* EuroPytho
On May 16, 2017, at 12:36 PM, rzed wrote:
> On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 6:02:58 AM UTC-4, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> One of the more controversial aspects of the Python ecosystem is the Python
>> docs. Some people love them, and some people hate them and describe them as
>> horrible.
>>
> [...]
>
Peter Otten <__pete...@web.de> schrieb am Mi., 17. Mai 2017 um 09:31 Uhr:
> jeanbigbo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I am trying to write some recursive code to explore the methods, classes,
> > functions, builtins, etc. of a package all the way down the hierarchy.
>
> > 2) I ultimately need to create
On Wed, 17 May 2017 05:14 pm, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 5/17/2017 2:04 AM, jeanbigbo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Question: Is there a solution to this "turn a string into the module it
>> represents" problem?
>
> Built-in function __import__
Like all dunders, __import__ is intended for the interpre
jeanbigbo...@gmail.com wrote:
> I am trying to write some recursive code to explore the methods, classes,
> functions, builtins, etc. of a package all the way down the hierarchy.
>
> 1) Preliminaries
> In [2]: def explore_pkg(pkg):
>...: return dir(pkg)
>...:
>
> In [3]: import numpy
Chris Angelico wrote, on Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:02 AM
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Deborah Swanson
> wrote:
> > So perhaps now you might be agreeing with me that investing
> in Windows
> > and Visual Studio now is a shortsighted move that will
> likely result
> > in long term gri
I think the problem is ambiguous as stated. There are many planes
you could pick through the centre of mass that divides the atoms
into two groups. Some other rule is needed to decide which is the
"right" one.
My guess is that what you have in mind involves finding the
"longest" axis of the molec
On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 10:19:06 PM UTC+1, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 7:14 AM, bartc wrote:
> > That PCbuild line is step 3 of Quick Start. You have to get past steps 1 and
> > 2 first. It talks about something called Git; I don't know what that is or
> > what I'm supposed
On 5/17/2017 2:04 AM, jeanbigbo...@gmail.com wrote:
Question: Is there a solution to this "turn a string into the module it
represents" problem?
Built-in function __import__
--
Terry Jan Reedy
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 5:09:34 PM UTC+1, bartc wrote:
> On 16/05/2017 08:53, Chris Angelico wrote:
> > On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
> >> Am 15.05.17 um 23:58 schrieb Chris Angelico:
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 7:01 AM, Deborah Swanson wrote:
>
> >>>
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:44 PM, wrote:
> When using feedparpser object as below, it only contains 25 items, how can i
> have all contents?
> for example,
> d= feedparser.parse('http://newyork.craigslist.org/stp/index.rss')
> print(len(d['entries'][i]['summary']))
>
> result is 25
Have you
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Deborah Swanson
wrote:
> So perhaps now you might be agreeing with me that investing in Windows
> and Visual Studio now is a shortsighted move that will likely result in
> long term grief for Python? Maybe reconsidering it?
Not at all. I never said Windows wasn't
Chris Angelico wrote, on Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:36 PM
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Deborah Swanson
> wrote:
> > But the myth that modern Windows users are safe from
> malware is just
> > that, a myth. I have plenty of Microsoftie friends who tell me
> > privately that this is so.
>
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