Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

kilon.alios wrote > Yes sure , I agree, but why that does not apply to Pharo ? Pharo as a principle has prioritized "do the right thing" over backward compatibility, and by consequence to lose users who won't accept that. Now amazingly, in practice, migration has for the most-part been a breeze, p

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

Yes sure , I agree, but why that does not apply to Pharo ? I would not want to use Pharo libraries that get changed and redesigned in each version and I have to rewrite my code. I could not even imagine the nightmare scenario of having a big code base and a language that keep changing. Python brok

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

kilon.alios wrote > If you mean something more than that, then I am open to other opinions as > always :) The only meaning I connected to C++ and Ruby were that they were dogmatically and widely enough approved for use to be rigid by necessity. Based on some of your comments, I assume I probably c

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

well this is why I say its a weak spot. I dont disagree with everything you say. I do agree that a language like C++ goes to a very diffirent direction to Pharo and will attract diffirent kind of people, or even the same people with different set of goals. If you mean something more than that, the

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

kilon.alios wrote > The weak spot in your argument is that you use the worst example you can > choose to prove it. Ha ha ha, did you really just boil my whole post down to two examples of languages which are "languages you're supposed to use" (which by the way if you read carefully I never suggest

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

The weak spot in your argument is that you use the worst example you can choose to prove it. Ruby. Ruby has two big issues for your line of arguments. First its popularity was build by a single man. A nomad. His name is David Heinemeier Hansson

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > kilon.alios wrote > > I do agree, that nomads do not build cathedrals but there is the flip > side > > of the coin, why one would want to be a nomad and the great benefits > > coming > > with being a nomad > > > > Guido the creator of pyth

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

kilon.alios wrote > I do agree, that nomads do not build cathedrals but there is the flip side > of the coin, why one would want to be a nomad and the great benefits > coming > with being a nomad > > Guido the creator of python explains it from the side of the Python > Standard library but I think

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Trygve Reenskaug wrote: > It's a fact of life that leverage implies rigidity. A rubber crowbar is > flexible, but useless. > Our challenge is, as I see it, to determine the minimum we need to keep > rigid in order to get maximum leverage for doing the rest. > --Tr

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

It's a fact of life that leverage implies rigidity. A rubber crowbar is flexible, but useless. Our challenge is, as I see it, to determine the minimum we need to keep rigid in order to get maximum leverage for doing the rest. --Trygve On 03.02.2015 14:34, Marcus Denker wrote: On 03 Feb 2015,

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

> On 03 Feb 2015, at 14:29, Sebastian Sastre > wrote: > > >> On Feb 3, 2015, at 11:18 AM, kilon alios > > wrote: >> >> But the more user it will get the more inflexible will become to change. >> That's a big price to pay for abandoning the nomad life. > > Note

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

> On Feb 3, 2015, at 11:18 AM, kilon alios wrote: > > But the more user it will get the more inflexible will become to change. > That's a big price to pay for abandoning the nomad life. Note that, that statement, is not exactly true. The more users it gets, the more social pressure the commu

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

But thats not the point I am trying to make and what Guido is talking about in the video. The summary of those two minutes is that "you dont want to contribute your code to us because as soon as you do you are trapped by our huge scary monster of backward compatibility and we wont tolerate any cha

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

> On 03 Feb 2015, at 13:59, kilon alios wrote: > > I do agree, that nomads do not build cathedrals but there is the flip side of > the coin, why one would want to be a nomad and the great benefits coming with > being a nomad > > Guido the creator of python explains it from the side of the Py

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

I do agree, that nomads do not build cathedrals but there is the flip side of the coin, why one would want to be a nomad and the great benefits coming with being a nomad Guido the creator of python explains it from the side of the Python Standard library but I think it applies fine for Pharo too

Re: [Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

> On 02 Feb 2015, at 21:19, Marcus Denker wrote: > > Hi, > > Here are the slides from my talk from yesterday: > > http://www.slideshare.net/MarcusDenker/2015-fosdempharo > The part in between Pharo3 and Pharo4 tries a bit to explain the philosophy… I did a longer talk at ESUG last year abou

[Pharo-users] Slides from the Pharo Status talk at FOSDEM 2015

Hi, Here are the slides from my talk from yesterday: http://www.slideshare.net/MarcusDenker/2015-fosdempharo Marcus