RE: RFC idea

2000-09-26 Thread David Grove
On Tuesday, September 26, 2000 12:54 PM, Dan Sugalski [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > At 07:08 AM 9/26/00 -0400, Ben Tilly wrote: > >Dan Sugalski wrote: > >> > >>On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Ben Tilly wrote: > >> > >> > Is it a conflict with the aims of Perl 6 in general that various > >> > derivatives

RE: RFC 346 (v1) Perl6's License Should be (GPL|Artistic-2.0)

2000-09-29 Thread David Grove
YES. This is starting to make better sense and provide for some protections. Comments inserted. > Permissions for Redistribution of Modified Versions of the Package as Source > > (4) You may modify your copy of the source code of this Package in any way > and distribute that Modified Ve

RE: RFC 346 (v1) Perl6's License Should be (GPL|Artistic-2.0)

2000-09-29 Thread David Grove
> >(b) ensure that the installation of Your non-source Modified Version > >does not conflict in any way with an installation of the > >Standard > >Version, and include for each program installed by the Modified > >Version clear documentation

RE: RFC 343 (v1) New Perl Mascot

2000-09-29 Thread David Grove
CTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 8:20 PM > Subject: RE: RFC 343 (v1) New Perl Mascot > > > > On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:46:44 -0500, David Grove wrote: > > [RFC 343 v1] > > > > A camel is a ho

RE: RFC 265 (v3) Interface polymorphism considered lovely

2000-09-29 Thread David Grove
> Java is one language that springs to mind that uses interface > polymorphism. Don't let this put you off -- if we must steal something > from Java let's steal something good. Interface inheritance is probably the least dignified thing to steal from Java. If we have true multiple inheritance, i

RE: RFC 346 (v1) Perl6's License Should be (GPL|Artistic-2.0)

2000-09-29 Thread David Grove
On Friday, September 29, 2000 9:31 PM, Bradley M. Kuhn [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > David Grove wrote: > > > >(b) ensure that the installation of Your non-source Modified > > > >Version > > > >does not conflict

RE: Why (7) and (8) in the Artistic-2.0 (was Re: RFC 346 (v1) Perl6's License Should be (GPL|Artistic-2.0))

2000-09-29 Thread David Grove
> > Let ActiveState make their PerlScript, PerlEX, and pseudocompiler if they > > want, and charge whatever they want for it. But if perl is to be free, it > > needs to be redistributable without any loopholes providing them the > > ability to proprietarize the language itself, or make a community

RE: RFC 263 (v1) Add null() keyword and fundamental data type

2000-09-27 Thread David Grove
On Wednesday, September 27, 2000 4:17 AM, Tom Christiansen [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > This is screaming mad. I will become perl6's greatest detractor and > anti-campaigner if this nullcrap happens. And I will never shut up > about it, > either. Mark my words. Quote from Larry: "I have

RE: RFC 354 (v1) A Trademark on Perl Should be Acquired in Larry Wall's Name

2000-09-30 Thread David Grove
On Saturday, September 30, 2000 3:13 PM, Perl6 RFC Librarian [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > This and other RFCs are available on the web at > http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ > > =head1 TITLE > > A Trademark on Perl Should be Acquired in Larry Wall's Name > Agreed. This is one of the few ways to pr

RE: new perl mascot

2000-09-30 Thread David Grove
That's the current running hope, I'll change the RFC to match it shortly. However, since I can't realistically expect this to happen, it wouldn't make sense to do more than suggest it as a first course of action. On Saturday, September 30, 2000 6:48 AM, Gerrit Haase [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wr

RE: perl6storm #0050

2000-09-27 Thread David Grove
On Wednesday, September 27, 2000 10:21 AM, John Porter [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > Philip Newton wrote: > > On 26 Sep 2000, Johan Vromans wrote: > > > > > > By the same reasoning, you can reduce the use of curlies by using > > > indentation to define block structure. > > > > What an idea! I

RE: RFC 80 (v4) Exception objects and classes for builtins

2000-10-04 Thread David Grove
On Wednesday, October 04, 2000 1:21 AM, Perl6 RFC Librarian [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > This and other RFCs are available on the web at > http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ > > =head1 TITLE > > Exception objects and classes for builtins > > =head1 VERSION > > Maintainer: Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTE

RE: RFC 357 (v1) Perl should use XML for documentation instead of POD

2000-10-04 Thread David Grove
On Wednesday, October 04, 2000 4:15 AM, Tom Christiansen [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > >POD, presumably. Or maybe son-of-POD; it would be nice to have better > >support for tables and lists. > > We did this for the camel. Which, I remind the world, was > written in pod. > > ''tom Uh... w

RE: RFC 359 (v1) Improvement needed in error messages (both internal errors and die function).

2000-10-01 Thread David Grove
On Sunday, October 01, 2000 1:37 AM, Perl6 RFC Librarian [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > This and other RFCs are available on the web at > http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ > > =head1 TITLE > > Improvement needed in error messages (both internal errors and die function). Feel free to put anything you

RE: Cya dudes

2000-10-01 Thread David Grove
I am in the process of drafting a proposal, and have at a minimum split the thread. However, thank you for pointing out which list this should go in. I'll redirect further messages there. On Sunday, October 01, 2000 11:56 AM, Nathan Torkington [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > It's valid to wa

Undermining the Perl Language

2000-10-01 Thread David Grove
On Sunday, October 01, 2000 4:02 PM, Jean-Louis Leroy [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > > The Perl-KGB-elite has got to go, and a free republic must replace > > it. > > I wouldn't go as far as your entire post, neither in form nor content, > but I do have concerns about the sociopsycho(patho)logy

RE: Cya dudes

2000-10-01 Thread David Grove
I'm afraid I had a family crisis yesterday, else another RFC would have been submitted. Part of Perl's problems, a severe internal problem that has external (user side) consequences, is that Perl does *not* have anyone to speak policy with, while the community itself is submerged in issues of

RE: RFC 357 (v1) Perl should use XML for documentation instead of POD

2000-10-01 Thread David Grove
Realize that you are trying to convince a group who uses POD at the command line (no, not everybody) to use a complete markup language. We're talking about self-commenting code, sir, not a strict documentation system with indices and the likes in any formal sense. Even if a documentation system

RE: Undermining the Perl Language

2000-10-01 Thread David Grove
> No conspiracy could be that well-oiled. Someone would have leaked it > by now. The community has been leaking like a sieve since July 1998. Want a complete list?

RE: Undermining the Perl Language

2000-10-01 Thread David Grove
> It's possible you're speaking of one or more of the working group chairs, > in which case your criticism may well be valid. This, though, is one of the > cases where you may need to cope (as a volunteer project one needs to work > with what's available). You can also speak to folks a step or two

RE: Undermining the Perl Language

2000-10-01 Thread David Grove
On Sunday, October 01, 2000 8:51 PM, Bradley M. Kuhn [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > Stephen Zander wrote: > > >>>>> "David" == David Grove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > David> This country (apologies to non-US citizens) was not founded >

RE: RFC 354 (v1) A Trademark on Perl Should be Acquired in Larry Wall's Name

2000-10-06 Thread David Grove
On Friday, October 06, 2000 11:23 AM, Simon Cozens [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > On Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 10:50:06AM -0500, David Grove wrote: > > I don't know it's affiliations > > You know that word "independent"? Should have been a give-away, but... &

RE: Continued RFC process

2000-10-10 Thread David Grove
On Tuesday, October 10, 2000 10:31 AM, John Barnette [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > D'you think it's a possibility to provide read-only access to the lists > for interested parties? Read-only and carefully censored lists are irrelevant to the goals of Perl 6's giving voice to the perl commun

RE: Continued RFC process

2000-10-10 Thread David Grove
On Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:59 PM, Peter Buckingham [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > David Grove wrote: > > Read-only and carefully censored lists are irrelevant to the goals of > > Perl 6's giving voice to the perl community. They lead us right back > > where w

RE: Continued RFC process

2000-10-10 Thread David Grove
On Tuesday, October 10, 2000 10:51 AM, Dan Sugalski [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > >Yep, this is my only concern. It should be reasonably easy to say "I > >really want to help" and get on the closed lists. Perhaps the best way > >of making sure the lists don't bloat into "everyone has an opinio

RE: Continued RFC process

2000-10-10 Thread David Grove
ne who sees the danger. Relatively few people speak openly about it for fear of getting the same beatings I get on a regular basis. Frankly I think it's important for these guys just to realize that other people are sitting back and watching, with unexpressed interests. > On Tue, 10 Oct

RE: Continued RFC process

2000-10-10 Thread David Grove
On Tuesday, October 10, 2000 1:33 PM, Jonathan Scott Duff [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > David Grove wrote: > > Read-only and carefully censored lists are irrelevant to the goals of > > Perl 6's giving voice to the perl community. They lead us right back > > where w

RE: Continued RFC process

2000-10-10 Thread David Grove
On Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:27 PM, Simon Cozens [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > Consider: > "Public Opinion": Hey, we need Perl 6 stable in three weeks. > Coders: But, uhm, we haven't started coding yet. Consider: Microsoft: We need Perl by April 15th Head Cheese: Ok, sure

RE: Continued RFC process

2000-10-10 Thread David Grove
hen I expect the Perl community (at the > > very least, one David Grove :-) to be up in arms about it. > > And then they could fork, and Perl would stay free. Crisis over. > > IT'S OPEN SOURCE. > > David, go understand what that means. Simon, it's corporate co

RE: Now and then

2000-10-10 Thread David Grove
On Tuesday, October 10, 2000 8:03 PM, Nathan Torkington [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > I think we're talking about two different periods of development here. > > The immediate question facing us is how to structure software design. > This is different from the ongoing maintenance of Perl. > >

RE: Now and then

2000-10-11 Thread David Grove
On Wednesday, October 11, 2000 11:02 AM, Nathan Torkington [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > David Grove writes: > > I'm wondering how different this is from the current setup. > > Currently there's the pumpking and the pumpking decides when to > release a new versio

C Sharp?

2000-10-18 Thread David Grove
Isn't C# (C Sharp) a Microsoft-owned language that is (currently) available only on Win2k (though apparently targeted for crossplatform)? After Larry said he was thinking of making parts of Perl 6 in C#, I went on a studying rampage. I find nothing for anything except Win2k. Can someone provide

RE: Transcription of Larry's talk

2000-10-18 Thread David Grove
On Wednesday, October 18, 2000 12:59 PM, Larry Wall [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > Simon Cozens writes: > : You're learning Japanese, right? It's gotta be "toriaezu".[1] :) > > Yes, but if we go down that route, we're gonna end up with all the > verbs at the end. Instead of "print @foo", we g

RE: C Sharp?

2000-10-18 Thread David Grove
Ah, sorry, misunderstood. I do remember him saying it will probably be done in C with perl as the parser, with C++ dubious. I just got caught up in the C# research. On Thursday, October 19, 2000 12:10 AM, Dan Sugalski [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > At 10:30 PM 10/18/00 -0500, David Gr

Re: What will the Perl6 code name be? (again)

2000-10-29 Thread David Grove
Tad McClellan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Sorry to mention the code name thing again, I thought the > whole endeavor rather silly. > > But I just stumbled upon the dictionary definition below, so > I submit it for due (mis)consideration: > > > pearly everlasting: > >n. A rhi

Re: Critique available

2000-11-02 Thread David Grove
If there's one thing that I know about Larry, it's that he's not stupid. Neither are the members of the perl community as silly and uninitiated as the "perl-elite" would make them out to be. I can see _much_ more information coming out of these RFC's than just the content of the RFC's in a techica

Re: Critique available

2000-11-02 Thread David Grove
John Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Bennett Todd wrote: > > > > Java is crappy engineering with superb marketing, > > This is so wide of reality, I conclude that you don't know the > first thing about Java. Ok, Visual Basic then.

Re: Critique available

2000-11-02 Thread David Grove
Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Nov 02, 2000 at 10:42:08AM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote: > > But what really pisses me off is that the harshest critics are people > > who bowed out or were silent during the stage where we were setting up > > the RFC process. > > I'm try

Re: Critique available

2000-11-02 Thread David Grove
Absolutely and double the vulgarity. I can't imagine that the article was posted at all. Several of us (you guys) have _some_ pull at O'Reilly... please suggest that the article be pulled. For the company that backs perl the most to publish something so disgustingly myopic is unconscionable. Nat

Re: Critique available

2000-11-02 Thread David Grove
's position. Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Nov 02, 2000 at 02:01:45PM +, David Grove wrote: > > Absolutely and double the vulgarity. I can't imagine that the article was > > posted at all. Several of us (you guys) have _some_ pull at O'

Re: Critique available

2000-11-03 Thread David Grove
> Anyone think others are needed? "Myopia neither equates the absence of existence of a distant object, nor demonstrates the insanity of the non-myopic." or, roughly translated, "Issues should be faced rather than avoided by attacking the person who points them out."

Re: Critique available

2000-11-07 Thread David Grove
The polite thing to do would be to catch up on the end of a dead thread before using a several-day-old posting as a springboard to ask people to let it go. Please catch yourself in this error in the future. > This thread has gone on for a long time, and is starting to repeat > itself...cou

Introduction, I suppose.

2000-11-15 Thread David Grove
No traffic yet, so I suppose I'll open with a couple statements and a couple questions. First of all, do we talk, or submit PDDs? Are we aiming for a single PDD from this group, or a short number of them, or a short number to be collated into one? I'm not quite clear how this works, and what we e

Re: Guidelines for internals proposals and documentation

2000-11-17 Thread David Grove
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 10:19 AM 11/17/00 -0800, Ken Fox wrote: > >However, I don't want to see early (premature) adoption of fundamental > >pieces like the VM or parser. It makes sense to me to explore many > possible > >designs and pick and choose between them. Also,

The new api groups

2000-11-13 Thread David Grove
Dan & al., I'm very surprised to see planning groups for api and parsing for perl6 springing up, with goals of providing RFC's in nine days. This is rather confusing given that Larry hasn't yet (that I'm aware of) determined what Perl6 will even look like, what, if any, new keywords will be there

Re: The new api groups

2000-11-14 Thread David Grove
Ok, so I'm not off in la-la land. See you in parser. I have a couple things you might like... Thanks, Dan pete Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 12:17 AM 11/14/00 +0000, David Grove wrote: > >Dan & al., > > > >I'm very surprised to se

Fwd: new lists. perl6-internals-api-*

2000-11-14 Thread David Grove
Sorry for the crosspost (the information was requested). This is where I got the information on the new api groups. I've subscribed to the groups but haven't seen any traffic on them yet. I don't see any reason to believe that this wouldn't be authentic, but if it is, then if I'm not missing some

Re: The new api groups

2000-11-15 Thread David Grove
I'm on announce, I believe... I didn't get anything. (Internals seems like a poor place to make than announcement.) How do I check to see that ezmlm hasn't unsubscribed me from announce when my server was down last week for a couple of days? It's read-only, so I can't test-post to it, and I'm not

Re: Introduction, I suppose.

2000-11-15 Thread David Grove
Oops. ;-)) And I thought I was on a roll, contributing to the Perl 6 source core thingy... LOL Jarkko Hietaniemi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 11:55:27AM +, Simon Cozens wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 03:29:24AM +0000, David Grove wrote: >

Fwd: ezmlm response

2000-11-15 Thread David Grove
Interesting. I didn't get the announcement from there. Out of curiosity, is majordomo deprecated? --- I've been unable to carrry out your request: The address [EMAIL PROTECTED] was already on the perl6-announce mailing list when I received your request, and remains a subscriber.

Re: Guidelines for internals proposals and documentation

2000-11-15 Thread David Grove
Nat and I argued parts of this (I think this is included) at some length. Actually, I think I drove him crazy getting specifics out of this. Adam Turoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Nov 14, 2000 at 05:59:40PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote: > > 6) Only a WG chair, pumpking, or one of the pr

Re: Perl 6 paper

2000-11-21 Thread David Grove
I would, certainly. But I also think that the group as a whole would enjoy the preview. Kirrily "Skud" Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This coming Saturday, I'm presenting a paper on Perl 6 (the story so > far) at the Australian Open Source Symposium. > > Is anyone interested in looking

Re: To get things started...

2000-11-21 Thread David Grove
Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 10:37:23AM +0000, David Grove wrote: > > I'm not sure that it's possible to do this, or disirable. If Larry wants > > Perl to use different modes, creoles, or ways of interpreting or > &

Re: To get things started...

2000-11-21 Thread David Grove
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 07:36 AM 11/21/00 -0500, David Grove wrote: > >However, one thing is seriously lacking in this theory... if the parser is > >perl, how does the perl parse? (Sort of a woodchuck chucking wood type of > >thing.) Someh

Re: To get things started...

2000-11-21 Thread David Grove
> Okay, you're more confused here than I though. I can't deny that, but at least I helped get this group talking. The silence was deafening. Participation feels good though, when I'm not getting yelled at for being technically inarticulate (P5P). Maybe if we can keep up the good attitudes, we c

Re: To get things started...

2000-11-21 Thread David Grove
Thanks for the clarifications, Simon. Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 07:36:11AM -0500, David Grove wrote: > > > 1) The API presented to the rest of the world. This is likely one > call, > > > > These are almost two separ

Re: To get things started...

2000-11-22 Thread David Grove
"Rocco Caputo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:45:50 +0100, Bart Lateur wrote: > > > >AKA "The Dragon Book". You're not the only one to mention this book on > >this list. > > > >IMO, this book is really thick to crawl through, and in the end, it's > >all just theory, y

Re: To get things started...

2000-11-21 Thread David Grove
I'm still not sure where to start from a technical standpoint, so I'll just comment and brainstorm until someone more used to this tells me whether my common cents should be in US Dollars or South African ZAR. Please forgive a bit of rambling, I'm not purposely off topic if I am. Dan Sugalski <[

Re: To get things started...

2000-11-21 Thread David Grove
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 10:37 AM 11/21/00 +0000, David Grove wrote: > >Thanks for the clarifications, Simon. > > > >Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >If we were simply feeding it perl with a single syntax, we could get

Re: Backtracking through the source

2000-11-29 Thread David Grove
e stuff" and turns it into pure perl before actual interpretation. I think it's simpler and may make more sense to turn it into perl than to have each creole spit out syntax trees. It's the difference between a bunch of little anthill add-ons versus a bunch of big everest add-ons, whether compiled in or linked, whether perl or api. David Grove [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Backtracking through the source

2000-11-30 Thread David Grove
FINITION section altogether as a part of the PDD spec. Modern contract legalese requires this in certain contexts so a judge and jury can have a clue "what the heck those computer people are talking about". Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 03:30:28

Re: Backtracking through the source

2000-11-30 Thread David Grove
Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 05:07:32AM +0000, David Grove wrote: > > >From my understanding, "API" is the set of functions internal to Perl > and > > PerlXS that allow C to access Perl internal structures, func

Re: Backtracking through the source

2000-11-30 Thread David Grove
llenged as far as creating a parser/interpreter goes... I'm basically getting in on the ground floor of a new language with people who have done this all before, trying to comprehend major perl5 perlguts and predefined terms (more or less specific to this purpose) in a perl6 sense. I'm not g

Re: Backtracking through the source

2000-11-30 Thread David Grove
Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 11:54:31AM +, Simon Cozens wrote: > > I categorically do *NOT* want perl6-internals to turn into a basic > course in > > compiler design, purely for the benefit of those who know nothing at all > about > > what they're t

Re: Backtracking through the source

2000-11-30 Thread David Grove
"Bryan C. Warnock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, 30 Nov 2000, Simon Cozens wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 11:54:31AM +, Simon Cozens wrote: > > > I categorically do *NOT* want perl6-internals to turn into a basic > course in > > > compiler design, purely for the benefit of tho

Re: Perl apprenticing

2000-12-02 Thread David Grove
There is here (me). Dave Storrs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've tried to snip as much as possible without fouling up > attributions. If I failed, my apologies. > > On Thu, 30 Nov 2000, Dan Sugalski wrote: > > >At 11:47 AM 11-30-2000 -0500, Bryan C. Warnock wrote: > [...is there a pla

Re: Perl Apprenticeship Program

2000-12-04 Thread David Grove
> I am slightly worried about the "career path" dead-ending at personal > lackey, > however. But, hey, that's why we're getting paid the big bucks, right? I do have some concerns, but before I express them, I have a sidetrack comment in this direction. I have been programming in Perl since befo

Re: Perl Apprenticeship Program

2000-12-05 Thread David Grove
Jonathan Scott Duff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 10:08:35PM -0500, Bryan C. Warnock wrote: > > Be available. Don't give a task, then disappear until its due, accept > it, > > then disappear again. Answer questions. Check the work. Give feedback. > > This is very

Re: Perl Apprenticeship Program

2000-12-05 Thread David Grove
. Tweten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Today around 11:06am, David Grove hammered out this masterpiece: > > : Does brainbench still have free tests for Perl? Maybe that's > : something to look into, and maybe since it's a purely volunteer > : effort if they are now c

Re: Perl Apprenticeship Program

2000-12-05 Thread David Grove
"Bryan C. Warnock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 31 Dec 1969, David Grove wrote: > > In order to serve and assist future "apprentices" or maintainers, the > > communication between the two should be public (unless private on > > pur

Re: Tech documentation (Re: Perl Apprenticeship Program)

2000-12-05 Thread David Grove
Nathan Wiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Steve Fink wrote: > > > > David Grove wrote: > > > Anyways, that's just one suggestion. Do I have any idea where to find > these mythical people? No, unfortunately. Perhaps some feelers on > newsgroups

Re: Perl Apprenticeship Program

2000-12-05 Thread David Grove
> B. The "master" / "apprentice" relationship is just that - it depends >how the people in question relate. As a potential "master" I am all >too aware that I am not skilled in teaching - usually because I don't >know what is obvious vs what is obscure - so anyone "taught" by me >

Re: Perl Apprenticeship Program

2000-12-05 Thread David Grove
> > will have to do some proofreading (also tedious) no matter what. If the > > Bah. *I* like proofreading. Certainly for typos and English construction > if I can forget everything other than the last 2 sentences I read. Masters have no reason to spellcheck. I mean they'll have to proofread

Re: Tech documentation (Re: Perl Apprenticeship Program)

2000-12-06 Thread David Grove
> >Open Source Writers Group (http://oswg.org/) is a good starting point. > >I'm subscribed to their mailing list. I can think of a couple of other > >good places to try, too, but they're a bit politically incorrect to > >mention in this context :-/ > > Who on earth would be considered poli

Re: Tech documentation (Re: Perl Apprenticeship Program)

2000-12-06 Thread David Grove
Kirrily Skud Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 11:28:31AM -0800, Nathan Wiger wrote: > > > > Anyways, that's just one suggestion. Do I have any idea where to find > > these mythical people? No, unfortunately. Perhaps some feelers on > > newsgroups might be a good p

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-16 Thread David Grove
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > (Keeping in mind the input is source, and > the output is a syntax tree) Will you be my hero? Or Your clarity is sincerely appreciated. Ok, _from_ the books on the reading list, I'm seeing no precedent for a parser/lexer/tokenizer that uses multipl

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-16 Thread David Grove
Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Simon (?) brought up the problem that we might end up with a monolithic > > beastie > > I don't recall saying anything about it being a problem. :) Ok, it scared somebody. That much I remember. > > Reading what you say, "parser/lexer/tokenizer"

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-17 Thread David Grove
Nicholas Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 12:43:15PM +, Simon Cozens wrote: > > On Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 01:20:07AM +, Nicholas Clark wrote: > > > I'm assuming we're all sort of thinking that input is certainly > > > [good stuff] > > Thanks, but you were su

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-17 Thread David Grove
Andy Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, David Grove wrote: > > > Because what is the parser/lexer/tokenizer parsing? Perl? Pythonic? > > Javanese? All of them? Thinking of just the parser as a single entity > > seems to me to be hea

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-17 Thread David Grove
Sam Tregar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I imagine that each supported language will likely have its own prefered > parsing strategy. Some will be perfectly lex-yacc-able. Some will be > more like Perl than that and would benefit from some hooks into Perl's > existing parser. I think we jus

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-17 Thread David Grove
Sam Tregar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Dan Sugalski wrote: > > > For my part, at least, I've been thinking of something either LISP-ish > > or very simple parameter setting/checking (like stuff in, say, your > > average .rc file with a little control flow thrown in) wh

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-18 Thread David Grove
Sam Tregar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, David Grove wrote: > > > Ok, my C's rather rusty, but are we interested in parsing that? > > Yes. I've heard people talk about a C frontend. Will it ever see the > light? I don'

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-18 Thread David Grove
Sam Tregar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > possible, right? Are you saying you don't think we should make it > possible for someone to write a C parser for Perl? For the full language spec, I don't think it's attainable, and honestly don't see the reason for it within the context of Perl. It do

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-18 Thread David Grove
Andy Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That sounds too complex for what seems like a more simple solution. When > > you say "turn simple 'languages' into perl", that's what Dan's told me is > > my source filter. > > Correct. perl-byacc is a source filter. It takes in yacc source an

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-18 Thread David Grove
Andy Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The issues of 'use Python' or 'use Pythonish' are a quite different issue. > I don't think anyone believes it ought to be easy to *write* the Pythonish > module. I do. That's the problem. This is a nearly ubiquitously desired objective (writing th

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-18 Thread David Grove
Bart Lateur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 14:11:50 -0700 (MST), Nathan Torkington wrote: > > >I think the problems with this that were raised in the past are: > > * parsing partial source > > * does this mean that the parser has to reparse the whole sourcefile > > ever

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-18 Thread David Grove
Nicholas Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 11:30:09AM +0000, David Grove wrote: > > > > Bart Lateur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > But, the gist of this post is: we don't want to loose the usefulness > of >

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-18 Thread David Grove
Sam Tregar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, David Grove wrote: > [snip] > > _Perl_ _within_ _a_ _Perl_ _context_ _and_ _for_ _Perl_ _purposes_, > > Feeling a little hostile to the rest of the programming world? You're > sounding almost

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-18 Thread David Grove
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 12:29 PM 12/18/00 +0000, David Grove wrote: > > >Sam Tregar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, David Grove wrote: > > > > > > >[snip] > > > >

Re: Now, to try again...

2000-12-19 Thread David Grove
Andy Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, David Grove wrote: > > > > > Andy Dougherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I think you misunderstand. I think it should be very easy to *use* a > hypothetical Pythonish modul

Re: Perl Apprenticeship Program

2000-12-05 Thread David Grove
Kirrily Skud Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 11:05:43AM -0800, Steve Fink wrote: > > David Grove wrote: > > > > > Also, as far as documentation goes, I think it _should_ be written by > > > apprentices, so that non-maste

Re: standard representations

2001-01-04 Thread David Grove
"Bradley M. Kuhn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Liceses. Bletch. > Don't blame the licenses, blame the copyright law that makes them an > unfortunate necessity in many cases. And the thieves who steal the intellectual property and claim it as their own turf in the first place. What are we ta

Re: [FWP] sorting text in human-order

2001-01-05 Thread David Grove
"Bryan C. Warnock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, 05 Jan 2001, Piers Cawley wrote: > > But, but... 0.21 is *not* 'point twenty one', it's 'point two one', > > otherwise you get into weirdness with: .21 and .210 being spoken as > > 'point twenty one' and 'point two hundred (?:and)? ten'

Re: licensing issues

2001-01-08 Thread David Grove
This was the subject of a list and an RFC. I'd hope not to see what we worked hard to come up with not go to waste, guys and gals. We came up with a "least of all evils" solution, I think, and I feel very strongly that not protecting Perl from outright theft, especially using very iffy licenses al

Re: [FWP] sorting text in human-order

2001-01-08 Thread David Grove
I have an idea. Send that japanese to Larry and have him translate it. However he translates it, it's official. p Jeff Okamoto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 09:42:12PM -0500, Brian Finney wrote: > > > say we start with this number > > > 123,456,789 > > > > > > one

Re: licensing issues

2001-01-12 Thread David Grove
"Ben Tilly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "John van V" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >Actually, this the ~only~ obvious thing here. What I > >just learned from the GNU/FSF/UWIN/MinGW issue is that > >perl ~is~ legally defined as an operating system. > > Defined by who? I am curious her

Re: licensing issues

2001-01-12 Thread David Grove
> You know having you not have a clue who you are talking to > is getting really annoying. Hello David, my name is Ben > Tilly. I am the guy who flamed Tom Christiansen on p5p [...] > In any case if you want action on that it is better to > start by saying that and not take threads that

Re: licensing issues

2001-01-14 Thread David Grove
I'll retract partially. The precise reference I had in mind was in fact on the GNU site linked from Debian.org, my mistake, although I've definitely seen overwhelming GNUism among Debians. Here is a quick question as I asked it on UnderNET and got an immediate and definite response (I'm eapoe): u

Re: licensing issues

2001-01-14 Thread David Grove
Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, Jan 14, 2001 at 10:43:36AM -0500, Chris Nandor wrote: > > No. It was to have Windows support built-in to the standard > distribution. > > I see. > > I notice that you still haven't told me which part of clause three they > actually kept.

Re: licensing issues

2001-01-14 Thread David Grove
Dave Rolsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 14 Jan 2001, David Grove wrote: > > > 1. What if a company, ANY company, whether through collusion or by any > > other means, historically has had, currently has, or in the future will > > have, the ability

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