On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Argent Stonecutter
wrote:
> OK, here's a design problem in the new viewer that maybe can be
> figured out here.
>
> From the Jira, I missed this response to one of my comments, some
> time ago. Apologies, I forgot to "watch" the item:
>
> From Q Linden:
>> Argent
On 2010-03-17, at 04:25, Jacek Antonelli wrote:
> Q is right, this is a different scenario than in the past, because the
> chat bar is now always visible. In Viewer 2.0, having the chat bar
> gain focus by default would be totally incompatible with the AWSD
> movement keys and all the other single
This thread is approaching 100 emails in size after 3 days, and of
those hundred perhaps a dozen have been even vaguely on topic. I would
like to gently remind everyone that this mailing list is not an
appropriate venue to discuss the merits or nonmerits of DRM.
- Jacek
___
Having the chatbar always taking focus would be just as much a disaster for
me as it seems it is for you to have it releasing focus so much...
Although, for me it seems to be perfect the way it is, as I haven't been
fighting it in 2.0: it seems to work the way my mind expects it to.
If there seem
Not under the DMCA - perhaps outside of the US it might be
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Tigro Spottystripes
wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> isn't that actually fair use?
>
> On 16/3/2010 09:04, Gareth Nelson wrote:
>> The answer to that pic is to buy the movie an
> > What would that actually break?
>
> As I mentioned above, enabling such an option would make it
> impossible to use any of the single letter hotkeys. If we can
> think of a good way to indicate to the user that those
> hotkeys would be (effectively) disabled by enabling the
> proposed opti
Hi second live programmerriors (programmers+warriors),
I have a question related with rotation of object. Where exactly rotation
parameters are saved in.
For clarifying my question lets bring some example. I have some cube object,
that object has a properties, like position, size(width, height, l
I think in radiant, pi/2=90 degree (as radar)
>
> Hi second live programmerriors (programmers+warriors),
>
> I have a question related with rotation of object. Where exactly
> rotation parameters are saved in.
>
> For clarifying my question lets bring some example. I have some cube
> object
* I'm probably going to get flamed for this *
Egos aside, folks.
I rely on the scripting, open-source, and sl-beta mailing lists to interact
with peers on technical topics related to the mailing list I'm subscribed
to. This is a great platform for networking as well as learning about new
ways to
Soft, I answered your post (enclosed below) quickly on Friday 12th to
correct the unfortunate misreading of the words I had written, as that was
rather urgent. I didn't have time then to answer your point about our
technical discussions with Q though, as it needed the details to be dug out.
Now I
Why do you want to know that?
What is the patch that you're working on; which jira is relevant to this?
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 07:41:18PM +0900, Rustam Rakhimov wrote:
>
> Hi second live programmerriors (programmers+warriors),
>
> I have a question related with rotation of object. Where exactly
Soft Linden wrote:
> What I'm trying really hard to get across here is that keeping
> discussions civil, focused and constructive will help foster community
> involvement. Q is working really hard to make sure that a feature held
> in the dark for business reasons will never hold the rest of the
>
Reason why I need it,
I want to know what's rotation has an object, then I can rotate it back,
But actually I want to calculate rotation of some point in 3D world, so
that's why I decide learn how's rotations are going. There are a lot of
things related with matrix, Quaternion class, LLVector3 cl
Ricky wrote:
> So far, barring any LL concepts, we have (as far as I know so far!)
> two designs of plugin system:
> 1: Socket-based plugins - as�suggested�by Morgaine.
> 2: D-Bus or similar existing IPC tool.
> 3: C++ Dynamically Shared Objects - my suggestion.
4. REST/HTTP
The REST based syste
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 1:52 AM, Rob Nelson wrote:
> I haven't dug deep enough yet to fully grasp what is going on in
> LLSelectMgr, but it seems to me that it would be a lot more efficient to
> simply attach the permissions with each object's properties when they
> are sent to the client by the se
On 2010-03-17, at 10:21, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> Ricky wrote:
>> So far, barring any LL concepts, we have (as far as I know so far!)
>> two designs of plugin system:
>> 1: Socket-based plugins - as�suggested�by Morgaine.
>> 2: D-Bus or similar existing IPC tool.
>> 3: C++ Dynamically Shared Objects -
On Wednesday 17 March 2010 17:06:27 Rustam Rakhimov wrote:
> Reason why I need it,
>
> I want to know what's rotation has an object, then I can rotate it back,
>
> But actually I want to calculate rotation of some point in 3D world, so
> that's why I decide learn how's rotations are going. There
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:06:27 +0900, Rustam Rakhimov
wrote:
[...]
> And last question is what does it means jira from your sentence "which
jira
> is relevant to this?"
jira is the SL bug tracker, and this mailing list is devoted
to the open source SL development.
you may have more luck asking
See below for comments..
From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
[mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Morgaine
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:47 AM
To: Soft Linden
Cc: opensource-dev
Subject: [opensource-dev] Known details of LL 'Firefly' client-side scri
Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> On 2010-03-17, at 10:21, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
>> Ricky wrote:
>>> So far, barring any LL concepts, we have (as far as I know so far!)
>>> two designs of plugin system:
>>> 1: Socket-based plugins - as�suggested�by Morgaine.
>>> 2: D-Bus or similar existing IPC tool.
>>> 3
Mike, Soft was referring to us on the opensource-dev list as a whole.
That's the "we".
As to which "our position" is, that's simply the aggregate of what everyone
has expressed in this list. People speak for themselves here.
If you're not sure what that "community position" is, you have a lot of
On 03/17/2010 11:17 AM, Morgaine wrote:
> Mike, Soft was referring to us on the opensource-dev list as a whole.
> That's the "we".
> As to which "our position" is, that's simply the aggregate of what
> everyone has expressed in this list. People speak for themselves here.
That's really my point.
You missed the point of my response to Soft then, Mike.
Soft complained that she didn't know the details of Firefly and that
*WE*(all of us here, including yourself) were not using well backed
positions,
and asked for details of our discussions with Q. I've now supplied the
details of the only in
Which distro?
On 03/16/2010 02:08 PM, Tayra Dagostino wrote:
Every time i try to login SL2 crash due some font trouble, all font
listed are present and readable by all users in the system...
somebody else seen this? (if yes i'll opena JIRA, otherwise i look for
a local trouble of my linuxbox..
Mike, you chose not to contribute to the threads on client-side scripting in
February nor in March, until today. You really can't pin the blame on us if
the positions expressed on the list to date do not reflect your own.
I'm very glad to hear your views now though. We very much need an open
tec
> I don't follow you here. What I read in the above was a combination
> of a well defined client side extension API and a mechanism to load
> code that can be granted a level of trust based on criteria it needs
> to do its job. That might include code signing and metadata about
> the capab
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 11:34:36 -0500, Mike Dickson
wrote:
> On 03/17/2010 11:17 AM, Morgaine wrote:
>> Mike, Soft was referring to us on the opensource-dev list as a whole.
>> That's the "we".
>> As to which "our position" is, that's simply the aggregate of what
>> everyone has expressed in this l
Uhm, he is asking where it is saved viewer side, and wanting to use
setRotation(x,y,z)
function of lviewerobject. Looks like to me he is using the viewer source
code to develop something. This list is the place to ask, not the scripting
list that is about LSL.
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Open
Here is a sample of the REST/HTTP doc for SNOW-375.
SNOW-375 adds a HTTP server in the viewer to be easily accessible by any
process or client-side script in a language agnostic manner.
I posted this here to hopefully encourage forward movement in
client-side scripting and to avoid the backpeda
Not to mention that .NET does not have an uncontroversial licensing
arrangement, with many lawyers not able to figure out whether or not most
linux distributions are in technical violation...
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> > I don't follow you here. What I read in t
You install a program on your computer, and you either trust it or you
don't. It comes down to that, so it doesn't matter if it is .NET or Java
or some binary made by company XYZZY.
What some people want is to separate a way to run a sandbox version of
their LSL code on the client-side, which i
On 2010-03-17, at 12:31, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> You install a program on your computer, and you either trust it or
> you don't. It comes down to that, so it doesn't matter if it is .NET
> or Java or some binary made by company XYZZY.
The quotes from the office hours make it seem like they're ta
It's still the same concept: to download and install... they are
overused buzzwords that make people think there are some elaborate
separations for the basic ideas on how to migrate processes.
The sandbox model is just another abstraction to unify permissions.
It would be no different to insta
That looks very neat!
SNOW-375 talks a lot about the MonoVida viewer, but I don't see any mention
of that in your email below. Is MonoVida needed to try this out? I'm
interested in just poking at the REST interface a bit with some raw http.
I'll see if Opensource Obscure's build instructions on
On 2010-03-17, at 14:14, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> It's still the same concept: to download and install... they are
> overused buzzwords that make people think there are some elaborate
> separations for the basic ideas on how to migrate processes.
That's because there are. One requires a human in
Somewhere on this list in the past is a discussion about how to sign off
on scripts and such data for distribution. Those points have already
been made.
What the sandbox model does is allow people to setup a default
permission scheme and allow processes to migrate within the sandbox
without th
Thank you. I've tried to keep it simple and minimal for everybody.
For example:
$ wget http://localhost:50140/Agent/Groups
...
etc
Earlier today I considered a way to keep a passive connection open, so
that one can easily access the viewer from shell scripts. It's not hard
for me to re-enabl
On 2010-03-17, at 14:37, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> If you want to redesign years of study put into the linux emulator,
> its permissions, and its protection levels, to make-up your own
> homebrew sandbox, then go right ahead and worry about remote
> execution.
I believe you are fundamentally mis
Some of us are not lost in abstractions upon abstraction upon
abstraction upon turtles.
Your welcome to try to explain in detail what you think the nature of
the problem is devoid of such turtles.
Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> I believe you are fundamentally misunderstanding the nature of the
>
Mike, with reference to CLR and languages (I'm trying to partition the
discussion into manageable chunks, so only one topic at a time):
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Dickson, Mike (ISS Software) <
mike.dick...@hp.com> wrote:
>
> Assuming a CLR based approach doesn't simply mean C# there are l
Argent is exactly right.
>From sitting in on these OHs, the intention that has come across (but with
some ambiguity) is definitely that binaries will be pushed to our clients
and executed, even if this involves some action in-world. Whatever the
mechanism of transfer, these binaries are inherentl
[Mailmain/pipermail is slicing up posts again in the M/L archive. I'll try
a repost.]
Argent is exactly right.
>From sitting in on these OHs, the intention that has come across (but with
some ambiguity) is definitely that binaries will be pushed to our clients
and executed, even if this involve
100th post
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:21 AM, Gareth Nelson wrote:
> Not under the DMCA - perhaps outside of the US it might be
>
> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Tigro Spottystripes
> wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > isn't that actually fair use?
> >
> > On
Morgaine wrote:
> Argent is exactly right.
The point is already made on a different level. There was no need for
Argent to dismiss a view of it and try to push me as if I misunderstood it.
My viewpoint was from the use of and application of a sandbox model. My
point being there is no need to re
Oh dear, I may see the problem. Mailmain/pipermail seems to be slicing
posts on a leading 'From ' as if incoming posts were in Unix mailbox format
(they're not!), a very elementary mistake. Any Lindens reading this, please
give the mail/web sysadmins a heads-up.
Meanwhile, it's just a guess, but
[Another attempt to get the archives to see the rest of the post, prefixing
'From '.]
Argent is exactly right.
>From sitting in on these OHs, the intention that has come across (but with
some ambiguity) is definitely that binaries will be pushed to our clients
and executed, even if this involves
On 2010-03-17, at 16:06, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> This is why I pointed to the sandbox model with the tried and proven
> virtualization means of linux emulation as an example. One can
> easily allow untrusted code to execute natively in the linux
> emulation.
No you can't. Even in a virtual mac
Jonathan Irvin
Cell: +1-318-426-5253
Email: djfoxys...@gmail.com
-- Forwarded message --
From: Jonathan Irvin
Date: Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 16:33
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Known details of LL 'Firefly' client-side
scripting
To: Argent Stonecutter
I smell Phish.
Jonathan Irvi
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:18:55 -0400
Glen Canaday wrote:
you linux too? and it work?
> mmm... not a clue then.
>
> On 03/17/2010 12:49 PM, Tayra Dagostino wrote:
> > Debian lenny
> > Only official repo
> >
> >> Which distro?
> >>
> >> On 03/16/2010 02:08 PM, Tayra Dagostino wrote:
> >>> Every
> [Another attempt to get the archives to see the rest of the post,
prefixing 'From '.]
Success. Don't start your posts with 'From ' folks until it's fixed.
Morgaine.
___
Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com
Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> On 2010-03-17, at 16:06, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
>> This is why I pointed to the sandbox model with the tried and proven
>> virtualization means of linux emulation as an example. One can easily
>> allow untrusted code to execute natively in the linux emulation.
>
> No you
As stated before, sockets add unnecessary bulk to any plugin
architecture, ESPECIALLY HTTP. The SL viewer currently takes up 100%
CPU even with scripting turned off; The last thing we need is more
memory or processor load.
There are ways to signal the viewer when an event has occurred without
On 2010-03-17, at 16:55, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> Somewhere along the line Argent, you trusted to install the SL
> binary and its "badly behaved code can compromise you."
The SL binary does not contain a mechanism to automatically download
and execute untrusted code from in-world content.
> Don'
Anders Arnholm wrote:
> Roleplayers rage form the combate users, thert need wasd, DCS/CCS
> enviroemnt, to many others. WASD is the only you can use if you have the
> mouse to the right, as most righthanded people have.
>
>
Um, I'm right handed, my mouse is on the right, and I use the arrow ke
Am Mittwoch 17 März 2010 10:25:29 schrieb Jacek Antonelli:
> Q is right, this is a different scenario than in the past, because the
> chat bar is now always visible. In Viewer 2.0, having the chat bar
So, we take away a feature (auto hide chat bar) and then say "The situation is
different"? Nice
Has anyone else noticed a 10 fps drop between snow 2.0 and snow 1.3?
Seriously, 10fps difference standing by myself in my own house. I go
from 22 since i have everything turned on to 12 with the same settings,
and all i did was relog and wait for rez. That's nearly a 50% frame rate
drop.
--GC
troll :P
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 12:51 PM, John Hurliman wrote:
> 100th post
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:21 AM, Gareth Nelson wrote:
>
>> Not under the DMCA - perhaps outside of the US it might be
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Tigro Spottystripes
>> wrote:
>> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNE
Rob Nelson wrote:
> As stated before, sockets add unnecessary bulk to any plugin
> architecture, ESPECIALLY HTTP. The SL viewer currently takes up 100%
> CPU even with scripting turned off; The last thing we need is more
> memory or processor load.
Please, go ahead and benchmark how SNOW-375 h
Sorry but I have to agree with Argent on this one.
I use a sandbox all of the time for testing code and programs.
The whole point of and inherent safety in a sandbox is that everything is
contained within. If any code is allowed to interact with anything outside
of the sandbox then it is NOT a sa
> For a good example: Read back on the list for the kind of responses
> the render team was happening in the open. The render branches were
> published continuously, and the developers were quite public-facing
> for most of a year.
I have searched all mails in gmail regarding the render branches,
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 8:13 AM, Jonathan Irvin wrote:
> * I'm probably going to get flamed for this *
>
> Egos aside, folks.
>
> I rely on the scripting, open-source, and sl-beta mailing lists to interact
> with peers on technical topics related to the mailing list I'm subscribed
> to. This is a
We can, for example, easily say that we don't trust your LSL code from
your sim to run in my sim. No difference.
Some suggest the script must be "in the clear" (as in not compiled). Ok,
I argued for that last year, yet here is agruments against it? Or,
people want binaries? Or, people really do
Very cool Dzonatas!
Now If only I could get snowglobe to compile, I'll try out OpenSource
Obscure's build instructions as well.
- Nexii
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> Thank you. I've tried to keep it simple and minimal for everybody.
>
> For example:
>
> $ wget http://l
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
like i said before, hitting a key to call the chatting functionality is
quite common in games
On 17/3/2010 06:55, Kitty wrote:
>
> Having the chatbar always taking focus would be just as much a
> disaster for me as it seems it is for you to h
I'm still opting to eyeball the code and put it back the way it was, at
least on my end, and I'll try to include an option for it in prefs
(therefore obvious and not hidden) so that others can have a worthwhile
patch. It will take time though because I only just got it to compile in
the past co
Tigro Spottystripes wrote:
> like i said before, hitting a key to call the chatting functionality is
> quite common in games
>
So? I've played a couple MMOs and to type in those you just start
typing. No need to press a specific key. Of course, that's assuming
you've set the control to control
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
wouldn't that be more like Flash then?
On 17/3/2010 17:36, Morgaine wrote:
> Argent is exactly right.
>
> From sitting in on these OHs, the intention that has come across (but
> with some ambiguity) is definitely that binaries will be pushed to our
>
Hi,
For those following the commit messages, you certainly noticed quite a bit
of commits from that "Merov Linden" bloke recently. What's this all about?
*Short Story
*We have now a "vendor" branch (export of official viewer source code) and
tagged branches. I'm going to continue testing of the c
..Except they seem to be instructions for a command-line operating system?
?_?
- Nexii
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 12:04 AM, Nexii Malthus wrote:
> Very cool Dzonatas!
>
> Now If only I could get snowglobe to compile, I'll try out OpenSource
> Obscure's build instructions as well.
>
> - Nexii
>
>
>
What are we checking out with snowglobe/trunk currently?
--GC
On 03/17/2010 08:52 PM, Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote:
Hi,
For those following the commit messages, you certainly noticed quite a
bit of commits from that "Merov Linden" bloke recently. What's this
all about?
*Short Story
*We ha
WGET is part of linux. It should also be available on Windows:
http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/wget.htm
To compile, you can try these instructions:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Dzonatas_Sol/Communicator
It compiles on Windows, but I don't distribute a binary -- just the patch.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I do install and run programs i don't trust in a sandbox in my computer,
and i think people are wanting much more than just client-side LSL
scripts...
On 17/3/2010 14:31, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> You install a program on your computer, and you either tru
Hi,
Seems like a good candidate for a JIRA. Someone?
It would be nice indeed to be able to navigate with the arrows and type chat
text at the same time i.e. without having to do "Esc/Enter" to switch
between modes. At least as an option. I'd even venture that casual
res/newbie would find it easie
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I am for the bringing of all the related options back. I was not saying
that hitting Enter and having the arrow keys work for moving the text
cursor on the message should be the only way, i was just pointing out
that it isn't an uncommon approach to ha
Er, it's been there for quite a while.
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-17011
Chatbar related meta:
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-17172
Maya
Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Seems like a good candidate for a JIRA. Someone?
>
> It would be nice indeed to be able to navigate w
That'd teach me querying SNOW bugs only...
Thanks for the links :)
- Merov
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Maya Remblai <
snowfox...@dragonkeepcreations.com> wrote:
> Er, it's been there for quite a while.
> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-17011
>
> Chatbar related meta:
> http://jira.se
Hi,
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Glen Canaday wrote:
> What are we checking out with snowglobe/trunk currently?
>
>
When checking out Snowglobe trunk (
https://svn.secondlife.com/svn/linden/projects/2010/snowglobe) you get
viewer 2.0 beta 3 + Snowglobe branding + some patches ported from Sn
No problem. I have trouble finding things on the JIRA, in my own watch
list! ;P I'm glad it's getting attention.
Maya
Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote:
> That'd teach me querying SNOW bugs only...
>
> Thanks for the links :)
>
> - Merov
___
Policies and
Thanks for response,
So, I know that what I need saved in Quaternion, but how exactly I can take
these data's from Quaternion, I was trying to use two
functions getEulerAngles(&r, &p, &y) and getAngleAxis(&angle, &x, &y, &z)
but values not that value which is shown in window of properties of objec
Is this version supposed to have the viewer 2.0 user interface? I installed
the linux viewer from the link in the message and it had the old UI.
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Philippe (Merov) Bossut <
me...@lindenlab.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> There were a couple of parabuild (build farm machinery
On 03/18/2010 03:20 AM, Dahlia Trimble wrote:
> Is this version supposed to have the viewer 2.0 user interface?
No, as the 1.4 version number indicates, it's from the 1.x series.
Currently it's almost identical to the 1.3 RC.
cheers
Boroondas
___
Policie
I think i found what I'm seeking
thanks to everyone for response,
I'll be back soon :
2010/3/18 Rustam Rakhimov
> Thanks for response,
>
> So, I know that what I need saved in Quaternion, but how exactly I can take
> these data's from Quaternion, I was trying to use two
> functions getEule
Rob, sockets do not add any bulk to a *viewer* at all, since the socket code
is already present in every viewer. What's more, the suggestion of bulk
doesn't even make sense in the context of directly embedding Lua in the
viewer, since embedding Lua will grow the viewer by the size of the Lua
inter
Good job Merov! Looking forward to tinkering J
From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
[mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Philippe
(Merov) Bossut
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:53 PM
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Subject: [opensource-dev] "v
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