Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Ong Beng Hui wrote: The problem of been LoS is a big problem in metro as far as I know. You can't just put a pair of FSO gear without going to the building owner to talk about rights and cost. Not forgetting lighting protection and other stuff. Murphy, Brian S CTR USAF ACC 83 NOS/Det 4 wrote:

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

The problem of been LoS is a big problem in metro as far as I know. You can't just put a pair of FSO gear without going to the building owner to talk about rights and cost. Not forgetting lighting protection and other stuff. Murphy, Brian S CTR USAF ACC 83 NOS/Det 4 wrote: I haven't seen any

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

quire LoS, but using two or more pairs can probably handle the 80% situation in the metro (unless there is data to indicate otherwise). murph - Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 15:57:52 -0700 From: Roy Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area To: JC Dill Cc: nanog@

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Roy wrote: JC Dill wrote: I'm pretty sure the WISPs in the Santa Cruz and Gilroy/Morgan Hill areas were all also taken offline due to the fiber cut. (Roy, can you verify, for south county?) Anyone in those areas who relied on a WISP as a backup to their fiber/copper link found that their "r

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Deepak Jain wrote: I don't mean to jump in here and state the obvious, but wireless links are not a panacea. At least a few folks have presented that fiber grooming has affected their *region*. It's not difficult to imagine that wherever the "head" link side (or agg point) of these regional wire

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

JC Dill wrote: > Gino Villarini wrote: >> Good points, some variables are dependant on the network infrastructure >> of the wireless provider. Localy, the main 2 providers have a >> "copper/fiber independent" networks. >> >> > I'm pretty sure the WISPs in the Santa Cruz and Gilroy/Morgan Hill >

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Gino Villarini wrote: > Here in my area most of business outfits that require maximum > availability of Internet or WAN conenctions have implemented dual > connections from dual providers, most with a fiber/copper main and a > fixed wireless backup. This trend goes from banks to Mcdonalds > > >

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

I think this issue has been beat. We're dealing with an arcaic system and protection at the same time... Mark Jackson, CCIE 4736 Senior Network, Security and Voice Architect 858-705-1861 markcciejack...@gmail.com Sent from my iPhone Please excuse spelling errors On Apr 14, 2009, at 3:24 PM, JC

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Gino Villarini wrote: SF area is serviced by Covad Wireless division among others, every major US city is served by at least 1 or 2 reputable business class Wireless ISP's. AFAIK Covad Wireless is just "last mile" wireless, and the route your packets take quickly merges with the local fibe

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Gino Villarini wrote: Good points, some variables are dependant on the network infrastructure of the wireless provider. Localy, the main 2 providers have a "copper/fiber independent" networks. I'm pretty sure the WISPs in the Santa Cruz and Gilroy/Morgan Hill areas were all also taken offli

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

arini; Deepak Jain; Jorge Amodio; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area Wireless RF links have their drawbacks: 1. Current GHz Frequency technology places upper limit of 1 Gbps on point-to-point links, and distance at 1 Gbps is limited. Commercial GiGE radios are just now appe

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

in such a key US metropolitan area? -Original Message- From: Gino Villarini [mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 1:42 PM To: Deepak Jain; Jorge Amodio; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area Good points, some variables are dependant on the network

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

--Original Message- From: Deepak Jain [mailto:dee...@ai.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 4:36 PM To: Gino Villarini; Jorge Amodio; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area I don't mean to jump in here and state the obvious, but wireless links are not a panacea. At least a

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

weather disturbance, wireless links are subject to fade just as much as any kind of aerial wired asset. Deepak Jain AiNET > -Original Message- > From: Gino Villarini [mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 4:12 PM > To: Jorge Amodio; nanog@nanog.org >

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: Jorge Amodio [mailto:jmamo...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 11:21 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area > "Earth is a single point of failure.&quo

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

com] Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 11:31 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area > True enough Jorge, however, we need full-orbed perspective hereit's > not merely beating a dead horse; as far as topic goes, it is purely > edification in the nth degree, manner, fas

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> True enough Jorge, however, we need full-orbed perspective hereit's > not merely beating a dead horse; as far as topic goes, it is purely > edification in the nth degree, manner, fashion. This is the lingua > franca of this forum, and those who chose to read it, or not.  Not > merely pointed

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

Beckman Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:19 To: Dylan Ebner Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dylan Ebner wrote: > It will be easier to get more divergence than secure all the manholes in > the country. I still think skipping the securing of manhol

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

2 Bus. Ph.: 505.827.2851 "We move the information that moves your world." -Original Message- From: Jorge Amodio [mailto:jmamo...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 9:21 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area > "Earth is a single point of failure.

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> "Earth is a single point of failure." On top of that, one basic principle of telecommunications: No matter how much diversity and path redundancy, tons of concrete or titanium sealed fiber vaults you have, in the data exchange between points A and B there will be always two single points of fai

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Apr 13, 2009, at 8:40 PM, telmn...@757.org wrote: Better they cut the fiber instead of Oklahoma Citying the central office. I'm not sure that the "someone will alway s find the weakest link" argument can be summed up any better than this. If you don't believe it, you all need to spend

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

telmn...@757.org wrote: Presumes the perp isn't familiar with the hole, and it's security measures. In this case, I doubt that either is the case. Pop in, snip the wires on the horn, and do what you do. Better they cut the fiber instead of Oklahoma Citying the central office. If you're re

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 03:41:25AM +0200, Peter Lothberg wrote: > > > > There are three solutions to the problem; > > > > > > > > A: Put a armed soldier every 150ft on the fiber path. > > > > > > > > B: Make the infrstructure so redundant that cutting things > > > >jus

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Rofl Matt, I was recently laid off from my job for 'economic' reasons, what you say is deadly accurate. Bravo! :) On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: > On 4/13/09, George William Herbert wrote: > > Matthew Petach wrote: > > >> George William Herbert wrote: > > >> Matthew

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On 4/13/09, George William Herbert wrote: > Matthew Petach wrote: > >> George William Herbert wrote: > >> Matthew Petach writes: [much material snipped in the interests of saving precious electron resources...] > This was all in one geographical area. Diversity out of area will get > you

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 03:41:25AM +0200, Peter Lothberg wrote: > > > There are three solutions to the problem; > > > > > > A: Put a armed soldier every 150ft on the fiber path. > > > > > > B: Make the infrstructure so redundant that cutting things > > > just makes you tired, but nothing h

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Matthew Petach wrote: >> George William Herbert wrote: >> Matthew Petach writes: >> >"protected rings" are a technology of the past. Don't count on your >> >vendor to provide "redundancy" for you. Get two unprotected runs >> >for half the cost each, from two different providers, and verify

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> > There are three solutions to the problem; > > > > A: Put a armed soldier every 150ft on the fiber path. > > > > B: Make the infrstructure so redundant that cutting things > >just makes you tired, but nothing hapens. > > > > C: Do nothing. > > > > > > As the society becomes m

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Apr 13, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Peter Lothberg wrote: There are three solutions to the problem; A: Put a armed soldier every 150ft on the fiber path. B: Make the infrstructure so redundant that cutting things just makes you tired, but nothing hapens. C: Do no

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On 4/13/09, George William Herbert wrote: > Matthew Petach writes: > >"protected rings" are a technology of the past. Don't count on your > >vendor to provide "redundancy" for you. Get two unprotected runs > >for half the cost each, from two different providers, and verify the > >path separ

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

But you are ignoring the cost of designing, procuring, installing, monitoring, maintaining such a solution for the THOUSANDS of man holes and hand holes in even a small fiber network. The reality is, the types of outages that these things would protect against (intentional damage to the phy

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Matthew Petach writes: >"protected rings" are a technology of the past. Don't count on your >vendor to provide "redundancy" for you. Get two unprotected runs >for half the cost each, from two different providers, and verify the >path separation and diversity yourself with GIS data from the two

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Presumes the perp isn't familiar with the hole, and it's security measures. In this case, I doubt that either is the case. Pop in, snip the wires on the horn, and do what you do. Better they cut the fiber instead of Oklahoma Citying the central office.

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

Though I think networked environmental monitoring has its merits, it's clear the technology is unproven in monitoring fiber tunnels, and my inexperience in running and managing such tunnels makes this thread bordering on off-topic. I'm happy to continue conversations via email, but this will be m

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

There are three solutions to the problem; A: Put a armed soldier every 150ft on the fiber path. B: Make the infrstructure so redundant that cutting things just makes you tired, but nothing hapens. C: Do nothing. As the society becomes more and more dependent

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Nathan Ward wrote: Whack a $5 12v horn on it, and my bet is that it'd become a deterrent pretty quickly. Presumes the perp isn't familiar with the hole, and it's security measures. In this case, I doubt that either is the case. Pop in, snip the wires on the horn, and do what you do. Most of

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

"But that would not be NEBS Complient" -PHB I have thought of air horns in my colo cage when a tech of mine messes up. --Original Message-- From: Nathan Ward To: nanog list Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area Sent: Apr 13, 2009 4:55 PM On 14/04/2009, at 11:35 AM, David B

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On 14/04/2009, at 11:35 AM, David Barak wrote: In addition, as has been noted, this system wouldn't PREVENT a failure, it would just give you some warning that a failure may be coming, probably by a matter of minutes. Some statistics about the effectiveness of car alarms and unmonitored

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

--- On Mon, 4/13/09, chris.ra...@nokia.com wrote: >> From: Peter Beckman >> Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area > >  Total cost...is about $3000 per mile for > equipment > I get the feeling you haven't deployed or operated large > networks.  You never did say what

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

This all implies that the majority of fiber is in "tunnels" that can be monitored. In my experience, almost none of it is in tunnels. In NYC, it's usually buried in conduits directly under the street, with no access, except through the man holes which are located about every 500 feet. In

Re: [OT] Re: Fiber cut in SF area

I sense a thread moderation occurring here shortly. valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:39:23 EDT, Izaac said: Do you realize that you're putting trust in the sane action of parties who conclude their reasoning process with destruction and murder? And how is that different

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, chris.ra...@nokia.com wrote: I get the feeling you haven't deployed or operated large networks. Nope. You never did say what the multiplier was. How many miles or detection nodes there were. Think millions. The number that popped into my head when thinking of active

Re: [OT] Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:39:23 EDT, Izaac said: > Do you realize that you're putting trust in the sane action of parties > who conclude their reasoning process with destruction and murder? And how is that different from a US general plotting destruction and the killing of enemy troops during an off

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

Hi Peter, You wrote: > So, let's see. I'm pulling numbers out of my butt here, > Total cost...is about $3000 per mile for equipment > It could run on an overhead monorail > Network it all > Confickr-type domains to make sure I get the feeling you haven't deployed or operated lar

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

>>> On 4/13/2009 at 1:12 PM, Peter Beckman wrote: > On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Scott Weeks wrote: > >> >> >> --- beck...@angryox.com wrote: >> I still think skipping the securing of manholes and access points in favor of active monitoring with offsite access is a better solution. >>> >>>

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

Peter Beckman [mailto:beck...@angryox.com] wrote: >Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:19 AM >To: Dylan Ebner >Cc: nanog@nanog.org >Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area > >On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dylan Ebner wrote: > >> It will be easier to get more divergence than secure all the

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Scott Weeks wrote: --- beck...@angryox.com wrote: I still think skipping the securing of manholes and access points in favor of active monitoring with offsite access is a better solution. The only thing missing from your plan was a cost analysis. Cost of each, plus op

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

--- beck...@angryox.com wrote: >> I still think skipping the securing of manholes and access >> points in favor of active monitoring with offsite access is a >> better solution. > > The only thing missing from your plan was a cost analysis. Cost of each, > plus operational costs, * however many

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, chris.ra...@nokia.com wrote: Peter Beckman [mailto:beck...@angryox.com] wrote: Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:19 AM To: Dylan Ebner Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dylan Ebner wrote: It will be easier to get more divergence

Re: [OT] Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 03:37:00AM +, Paul Vixie wrote: > as long as the west's ideological opponents want terror rather than panic, > and also to inflict long term losses rather than short term losses, that's > true. in this light you can hopefully understand why bollards to protect > interne

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dylan Ebner wrote: It will be easier to get more divergence than secure all the manholes in the country. I still think skipping the securing of manholes and access points in favor of active monitoring with offsite access is a better solution. You can't keep people out,

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dorn Hetzel wrote: I guess the next generation fiber networks will need to be installed with tunnel boring machines and just not surface anywhere except the endpoints :) After all, undersea cables get along just fine without convenient access along their length... Boat an

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Or skip the locks and fill the manholes with sand. Then provide the service folks those big suction trucks to remove the sand for servicing :) On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > > On Apr 13, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > > Manhole locks are just going to

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

I guess the next generation fiber networks will need to be installed with tunnel boring machines and just not surface anywhere except the endpoints :) After all, undersea cables get along just fine without convenient access along their length... On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Mikael Abrahamsso

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On 4/13/09, Dylan Ebner wrote: > My point is, it is getting harder and harder to gurantee path divergence > and sometimes the redundancies need to be built into the workflow > instead of IT. Actually, in many ways it's getting easier; now, you can sign an NDA with your fiber providers and get

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Apr 13, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: Manhole locks are just going to stop vandalism, and I think the threat to obstruction calculation just doesn't add up for that small level of isolated cases. It doesn't stop it, it just makes it slightly harder, and they'll go afte

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

and the wiring frame boxes for pots line neither.. Its all of a matter of how much cash they wanna throw at it... Sent on the Now Network� from my Sprint® BlackBerry -Original Message- From: "Dylan Ebner" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:57:30 To: Subject: RE: Fiber cut in SF area

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009, Dylan Ebner wrote: Manhole locks are just going to stop vandalism, and I think the threat to obstruction calculation just doesn't add up for that small level of isolated cases. It doesn't stop it, it just makes it slightly harder, and they'll go after another point.

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

ner, Network Engineer Consulting Radiologists, Ltd. 1221 Nicollet Mall, Minneapolis, MN 55403 ph. 612.573.2236 fax. 612.573.2250 dylan.eb...@crlmed.com www.consultingradiologists.com -Original Message- From: Joe Greco [mailto:jgr...@ns.sol.net] Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 7:12 AM To:

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:18:04 -0500 Stephen Sprunk wrote: > Mike Lewinski wrote: > > Joe Greco wrote: > >> Which brings me to a new point: if we accept that "security by > >> obscurity is not security," then, what (practical thing) IS > >> security? > > > > Obscurity as a principle works just fi

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Mike Lewinski wrote: Joe Greco wrote: Which brings me to a new point: if we accept that "security by obscurity is not security," then, what (practical thing) IS security? Obscurity as a principle works just fine provided the given token is obscure enough. Ideally there are layers of "securit

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> > Joe Greco wrote: > > > My point was more the inverse, which is that a determined, equipped, > > and knowledgeable attacker is a very difficult thing to defend against. > > "The Untold Story of the World's Biggest Diamond Heist" published > recently in Wired was a good read on that subject:

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Christopher Morrow wrote: I'm not sure that the manholes == atm discussion is valid, but in the end the same thing is prone to happen to the manholes, there isn't going to be a unique key per manhole, at best it'll be 1/region or 1/manhole-owner. In the end that key is compr

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Joe Greco wrote: Public key crypto is, pretty much by definition, reliant on the obscurity of private keys in order to make it work. In security terms, public key crypto is not "security by obscurity", as the obscurity part is related to how the method works, and the key

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Joe Greco wrote: My point was more the inverse, which is that a determined, equipped, and knowledgeable attacker is a very difficult thing to defend against. "The Untold Story of the World's Biggest Diamond Heist" published recently in Wired was a good read on that subject: http://www.wired

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> An easy way to describe what your saying is "Security by obscurity is > not security" Yes and no. From a certain point of view, security is almost always closely tied to obscurity. A cylinder lock is simply a device that operates through principles that are relatively unknown to the average

Re: [OT] Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Lamar Owen wrote: The locking covers I have seen here put the lock(s) on the inside cover cam jackscrew (holes through the jackscrew close to the inside cover seal rod nut), rather than on the outside cover, thus keeping the padlocks out of the weather. I'm starting to wo

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Roger Marquis wrote: >> Why didn't the "man in the street" pharmacy have its own backup plans? > > I assume they, as most of us, believed the government was taking care of > the country's critical infrastructure. Interesting how well this > illustrates the growing importance of the Internet vis-

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

An easy way to describe what your saying is "Security by obscurity is not security" On Apr 11, 2009, at 8:31 AM, Joe Greco wrote: Jo¢ wrote: I'm confussed, but please pardon the ignorance. All the data centers we have are at minimum keys to access data areas. Not that every area of fiber sh

Re: [OT] Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Christopher Morrow writes: > and I also would ask.. what's the cost/risk here? 'We' lost at best > ~1day for some folks in the outage, nothing global and nothing > earth-shattering... This has happened (this sort of thing) 1 time in > how many years? Expending $$ and time and people to go 'put p

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Jorge Amodio wrote: s/DARPA/ARPA/; s/BBM/BBN/; s/Internet/ARPAnet/. /DARPA/ARPA/ may be splitting hairs. According to http://www.livinginternet.com/i/ii_roberts.htm "DARPA head Charlie Hertzfeld promised IPTO Director Bob Taylor a million dollars to build a distributed communications netwo

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

, April 11, 2009 6:02 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area Sean Donelan wrote: > > Uh, not exactly. There was diversity in this case, but there was also > N+1 breaks. Outside of a few counties in the Bay Area, the rest of > the country's telecommunication sy

Re: [OT] Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Joe Greco wrote: >> On Saturday 11 April 2009 08:31:55 Joe Greco wrote: >> > Speaking of that, a manhole cover is >> > typically protecting some hole, accessway, or vault that's made out of >> > concrete. >> >> An oxyacetylene torch or a plasma cutter will slice th

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Sean Donelan wrote: > > Uh, not exactly. There was diversity in this case, but there was also > N+1 breaks. Outside of a few counties in the Bay Area, the rest of > the country's telecommunication system was unaffected. So in that > sense the system worked as designed. > About eight o

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Don't really care so much about the bank's security, especially if it was one that received some the bailout money :) I was more worried about if people could make withdraws from their bank accounts. Deposits they could do as they could enter them in later but withdraws I think would be different.

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Mike Lyon wrote: > Anyone know how banks in the Bay Area did through this? I wonder how many > banks went dark and whether they had any backup plans/connectivity. Me > thinks its doubtful. > > ... Because of the loss of the alarm systems, many banks went to a method where only one or two people we

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

While OT the news reports indicated ATMs were offline and many credit card processing machines were down. This is no big shock because many ATM networks are on frame relay and POS credit card machines use POTS lines. The outage also impacted mobile service too if it hadn't been said. I hope we c

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> Read the original DARPA papers, they were not about making sure grandma > could still make a phone call. That's a great explanation in few words. > Everything fails sometimes.  What's your plan? Even the failover plans ... Cheers Jorge

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Anyone know how banks in the Bay Area did through this? I wonder how many banks went dark and whether they had any backup plans/connectivity. Me thinks its doubtful. I also wonder if the bigger pharmacies such as Longs, Walgreens, Rite-Aid, Etc had thought about these kinds of issues? I personally

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Roger Marquis wrote: The real problem is route redundancy. This is what the original contract from DARPA to BBM, to create the Internet, was about! "The net" was created to enable communications bttn point A and point B in this exact scenario. Uh, not exactly. There was

Re: [OT] Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> On Saturday 11 April 2009 08:31:55 Joe Greco wrote: > > Speaking of that, a manhole cover is > > typically protecting some hole, accessway, or vault that's made out of > > concrete. > > An oxyacetylene torch or a plasma cutter will slice through regular steel > manhole covers in minutes. Yes,

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> The real problem is route redundancy.  This is what the original contract > from DARPA to BBM, to create the Internet, was about! s/DARPA/ARPA/; s/BBM/BBN/; s/Internet/ARPAnet/. BBN won the contract to build the first four IMPs. Theory and research about it is older, look at: http://www.lk.cs.

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

Jo? wrote: I'm confussed, but please pardon the ignorance. All the data centers we have are at minimum keys to access data areas. Not that every area of fiber should have such, but at least should they? Manhole covers "can" be keyed. For those of you arguing that this is not enough, I would say a

Re: [OT] Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> You can cut the concrete, too, for that matter, with oxyacetylene, as long as > you wear certain protective gear. We have a few vault covers here that are > concrete covering the largest vaults we have. You need more than a manhole > hook to get one of those covers up. And when you think

[OT] Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Saturday 11 April 2009 08:31:55 Joe Greco wrote: > Speaking of that, a manhole cover is > typically protecting some hole, accessway, or vault that's made out of > concrete. An oxyacetylene torch or a plasma cutter will slice through regular steel manhole covers in minutes. You can cut the co

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

The best protecion is good engineering taking advantage of technologies and architecures available since long time ago at any of the different network layers. Why network operators/carriers don't do it ?, it's another issue and most of the time is a question of bottom line numbers for which there

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Florian Weimer wrote: > * Joe Greco: > >> The ATM machine is somewhat protected for the extremely obvious reason >> that it has cash in it, but an ATM is hardly impervious. >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P8WM8ZZDHk > > Heh.  Once you install ATMs into solid

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

* Joe Greco: > The ATM machine is somewhat protected for the extremely obvious reason > that it has cash in it, but an ATM is hardly impervious. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P8WM8ZZDHk Heh. Once you install ATMs into solid walls, the attacks get a tad more interesting. In some places of

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Once upon a time, Jo¢ said: > Yes if enough time goes by anything can happen, but how can one > argue an ATM machince that has (at times) thousands of dollars stands > out 24/7 without more immediate wealth. Perhaps I am missing > something here, do the Cops stake out those areas? dunno We've had

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

> Jo¢ wrote: > > I'm confussed, but please pardon the ignorance. > > All the data centers we have are at minimum keys to access > > data areas. Not that every area of fiber should have such, but > > at least should they? Manhole covers "can" be keyed. For those of > > you arguing that this is not

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Jo¢ wrote: > > I'm confussed, but please pardon the ignorance. > All the data centers we have are at minimum keys to access > data areas. Not that every area of fiber should have such, but > at least should they? Manhole covers "can" be keyed. For those of > you arguing that this is not enough

RE: Fiber cut in SF area

I'm confussed, but please pardon the ignorance. All the data centers we have are at minimum keys to access data areas. Not that every area of fiber should have such, but at least should they? Manhole covers "can" be keyed. For those of you arguing that this is not enough, I would say at least it

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Apr 10, 2009, at 3:41 PM, Scott Doty wrote: George William Herbert wrote: Scott Doty wrote: (Personally, I can think of a "MAE-Clueless" episode that was worse than this, but that was in the 90's...) The gas main strike out front of the building in Santa Clara? Or something else? -ge

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

George William Herbert wrote: Scott Doty wrote: (Personally, I can think of a "MAE-Clueless" episode that was worse than this, but that was in the 90's...) The gas main strike out front of the building in Santa Clara? Or something else? -george william herbert gherb...@retro.com

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

Scott Doty wrote: >(Personally, I can think of a "MAE-Clueless" episode that was worse than >this, but that was in the 90's...) The gas main strike out front of the building in Santa Clara? Or something else? -george william herbert gherb...@retro.com

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

No RF, no WPS. If all the base stations are knocked out in a region, and there is no "over" coverage from towers out of the affected region then there are no channels to which priority access can be allotted. A potential remedy (at least for conventional cell phones) would be to scatter bac

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Ben Scott wrote: > > #ifdef CONSPIRACY_THEORIST > > What if this isn't simple vandalism? > > #endif > If my read is correct, this is multiple cuts in multiple locations. To answer the what-if ("What if this isn't simple vandalism?") : It's not. -jamie

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Thu, 9 Apr 2009, Jared Mauch wrote: That AT&T has stopped provisioning protection fiber for automatic restoral is mind boggling. Only helps with N-1 breaks. Unfortunately, sometimes there are N+1 breaks. Check the NANOG archives, I believe there were 5 breaks in one day in the 1990's; an

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

ge- > From: David Edwards [mailto:da...@reliablehosting.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 1:06 PM > To: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: Fiber cut in SF area > > At 12:55 PM 4/9/2009, you wrote: > > >From the news coverage it appears to be in the general ar

Re: Fiber cut in SF area

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Jared Mauch wrote: >> That our crack (or on crack) govt contracting/emergency-preparedness staff >> didn't demand protected facilities for 911 is another mind boggling issue. > >  This costs $$$ and usually isn't a problem as there are other ways to > communicate.

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