On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:51 PM, wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 02:48:16PM +1200, Mark Foster wrote:
>> On Fri, April 22, 2011 1:38 pm, Jeffrey Lyon wrote:
>> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 9:02 PM, Jeroen van Aart wrote:
>> >> Bill Stewart wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Rotating shifts between daytime and
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 02:48:16PM +1200, Mark Foster wrote:
> On Fri, April 22, 2011 1:38 pm, Jeffrey Lyon wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 9:02 PM, Jeroen van Aart wrote:
> >> Bill Stewart wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Rotating shifts between daytime and nighttime is a horrible thing to
> >>> do to your
On Fri, April 22, 2011 1:38 pm, Jeffrey Lyon wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 9:02 PM, Jeroen van Aart wrote:
>> Bill Stewart wrote:
>>>
>>> Rotating shifts between daytime and nighttime is a horrible thing to
>>> do to your workers, both for their health and their attention span.
>>
>> I Fully ag
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 9:02 PM, Jeroen van Aart wrote:
> Bill Stewart wrote:
>>
>> Rotating shifts between daytime and nighttime is a horrible thing to
>> do to your workers, both for their health and their attention span.
>
> I Fully agree.
>
> I think it may pay off to search for people who suf
Bill Stewart wrote:
Rotating shifts between daytime and nighttime is a horrible thing to
do to your workers, both for their health and their attention span.
I Fully agree.
I think it may pay off to search for people who suffer "Delayed sleep
phase syndrome" to do night shift. They'll be happy
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
> The TV master control facility in which I'm working presently does it
> by doing overlapping 10 hour shifts; it takes 10 people to have 2 on-shift
> at all times. You work 6 hours with one person, and 4 with the other.
My brother-in-law once
On 15/04/11 6:14 AM, harbor235 wrote:
If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
need
to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
required
24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
thoughts, experience?
There
The best schedule I ever worked for this was divided into essentially 2 teams:
SMTW and WTFS
There were 3 shifts on each team, though, that could be load adjusted by
creating
additional time slots.
The nice thing about the SMTW/WTFS structure was that we always had overlap
on Wednesday which we
In my previous life at a large backbone provider's managed security
services SOC/NOC we had the following:
Shifts where divided into front and back half with 10 hour days.
Front and back half segments of the shift where also split with half
working Sun-Wed and half working Mon-Thur alternating.
\On Apr 18, 2011, at 7:59 AM, Aaron Wendel wrote:
> My guys work 12 hour shifts. 2 days on, 2 days off, 3 days on, 2 days off, 2
> on 3 off. The three days on is always friday-sunday so every other weekend
> they either have a 3 day weekend or 3 days of work.
>
> In a pay period, with 30 minu
on the same shifts for consistancy.
Aaron
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
-Original message-
From: Steven Bellovin
To: frnk...@iname.com
Cc: NANOG , dcroc...@bbiw.net
Sent: Mon, Apr 18, 2011 04:12:04 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: 365x24x7
On Apr 17, 2011, at 11:47 20PM, Frank Bulk wrote
On Apr 17, 2011, at 11:47 20PM, Frank Bulk wrote:
> Timely article on the FAA's involvement with sleep schedules:
> http://www.ajc.com/news/air-traffic-controller-scheduling-913244.html
> "Union spokesman Doug Church said up to now, 25 percent of
> the nation's air traffic controller
15 PM
To: Jay Ashworth
Cc: NANOG
Subject: Re: 365x24x7
On 4/17/2011 8:19 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
> - Original Message -
>> From: "Dave CROCKER"
>
>> There were 3-5 of us covering things for that added time. But, then,
>> the major operations were pu
Having run 24/7 NOC, customer care and tier 3 engineering/dev support, for 20
years, my two cents are:
1) You need to rotate shifts and have overlap between shifts for training and
communication purposes
2) Always rotate forward, due sleep cycles
3) If you want to retain staff and not burn them
On 4/17/2011 8:19 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote:
- Original Message -
From: "Dave CROCKER"
There were 3-5 of us covering things for that added time. But, then,
the major operations were purely daytime, during the week. Graveyard shift was
quiet enough that we surreptitiously bought a cot..
John Levine wrote:
I've read stuff that confirms that changing to a later shift is much
easier than changing to an earlier one. It certainly matches my
experience that the jet lag flying to Europe, where I have to get up
six hours earlier, is much worse than flying back.
Last time I went to t
Having done this for quite a few years my advice is that once you get
past the basic arithmetic of people-hour-equivalents etc what you need
is a middle manager who is a good "horse trader" because it quickly
becomes a market of "I can do grave shift Tuesday if you'll take my
Saturday AM, I've got
>Some people claimed they'd have preferred it if we'd changed to the
>_following_ shift rater than the preceding shift each week but never
>having tried that I don't know how it would be.
I've read stuff that confirms that changing to a later shift is much
easier than changing to an earlier one.
- Original Message -
> From: "Mark Foster"
> Local emergency services[1] operate '2 days, 2 nights, 4 off'.
>
> Dayshifts are 10 hour 8am-6pm. Nightshift is 6pm until 8am. This
> creates
> a 4-watch rotation.
I dunno from Ambulance -- they're load driven... by my understanding is that
- Original Message -
> From: "Dave CROCKER"
> There were 3-5 of us covering things for that added time. But, then,
> the major operations were purely daytime, during the week. Graveyard shift was
> quiet enough that we surreptitiously bought a cot...
You didn't work for the FAA, Dave, di
> For what it's worth, was part of a datacenter operations department
> that
> had a 24x7 team. 4 shifts, 4 staff on each shift (1 was supervisor who
> did same work as the rest, 1 'point of contact' who stayed in the
> office).
> 4 days on, 4 days off, 12 hour shifts, 8-8. Shift teams would
> alte
> If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel
> do I need to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to
> cover the required 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule
> rotation?
>
> thoughts, experience?
It depends a lot on how you structu
I was offered a similar role… but more painful (Imho)
4 days 8am till 8pm
4 days off
4 days 8pm till 8am
4 days off
Rinse and repeat.
...Skeeve
--
Skeeve Stevens, CEO - eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists
ske...@eintellego.net ; www.eintellego.net
Phone: 1300 753 383 ; Fax: (+6
> Rotating shifts between daytime and nighttime is a horrible thing to
> do to your workers, both for their health and their attention span.
One of the places I worked had the following pattern. It was horrible
2 days/shifts of 6am till 6pm
2 days/shifts of 6pm till 6am
4 days off
Wayne
Bill Stewart wrote:
Rotating shifts between daytime and nighttime is a horrible thing to
do to your workers, both for their health and their attention span.
Full-time night work isn't great, but rotating work is even worse.
Apes are generally diurnal, not nocturnal or crepuscular. Shuffling
wh
> Variable scheduling of staff is often deemed more fair, but I think it makes
> things less stable. People are constantly having to change their life.
Rotating shifts between daytime and nighttime is a horrible thing to
do to your workers, both for their health and their attention span.
Full-tim
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011, Jeff Shultz wrote:
On 4/15/2011 10:11 AM, mikea wrote:
My experience:
6 on, 2 off, 8 hours, rotating to the next later shift: I never, ever got
enough sleep -- for 2 years.
6 on, 2 off, 12 hours, straight mids, no rotation: much less bad.
5 on, 2 off, 8 hours, straigh
>
> As the FAA has lately demonstrated, single person night shifts is
> generally a bad thing if you actually want them to stay awake.
>
> --
> Jeff Shultz
>
Jeff, there are other reasons for not having a single individual on an
overnight shift. A person can have an unexpected medical emergenc
On 4/15/2011 10:11 AM, mikea wrote:
My experience:
6 on, 2 off, 8 hours, rotating to the next later shift: I never, ever got
enough sleep -- for 2 years.
6 on, 2 off, 12 hours, straight mids, no rotation: much less bad.
5 on, 2 off, 8 hours, straight mids: quite tolerable.
5 on, 2 off, 8 hou
On 4/15/2011 6:14 AM, harbor235 wrote:
If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
need to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover
the required 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
What is the work distributi
> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:14:05 -0400
> Subject: 365x24x7
> From: harbor235
> To: NANOG list
>
> If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
> need
> to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
> required
> 24 hr coverage, but the
> >
>
> What we found was that we would find people who wanted to be on the
> night shift, and would NOT like to be changed, at all. Some people
like
> night
> work, or have family situations where it is ideal for them.
>
> Regards
> Marshall
+1
I would start by first taking an audit of skill
On Apr 15, 2011, at 12:50 PM, George Herbert wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 6:52 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Apr 15, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Greg Moore wrote:
>>
>>> When I did this years ago I found 5 was really a minimum so that I could
>>> cover weekends and then had extra coverag
On Apr 15, 2011, at 1:41 26PM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
>
> On Apr 15, 2011, at 12:44 PM, Mark Green wrote:
>
>>
>> Suggestion; once on the 'night shift' stay put for at least three months...
>> Sleep patterns take time to adjust. Jumping between day and night shifts
>> will burn out even t
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of NANOG digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. 365x24x7 (harbor235)
>> 2. Re: New hijacks, and lots of them (Ronald F. Guilmette)
In a past work life, there was a short experimental run where it was
believed that the company I worked for could achieve 24/7 coverage
through individuals being on-call throughout the entire weekend AND
doing overnight maintenance during the week in 12 hour daily shifts from
8PM to 8AM. Needle
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:53:47AM -0500, Chad Dailey wrote:
> +1. I'd go to six months, having been the night shift bitch. Flipping
> shifts around damn near killed me.
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Mark Green wrote:
> > Suggestion; once on the 'night shift' stay put for at least three
+1. I'd go to six months, having been the night shift bitch. Flipping
shifts around damn near killed me.
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Mark Green wrote:
>
> Suggestion; once on the 'night shift' stay put for at least three months...
> Sleep patterns take time to adjust. Jumping between d
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 6:52 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 15, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Greg Moore wrote:
>
>> When I did this years ago I found 5 was really a minimum so that I could
>> cover weekends and then had extra coverage as needed during the week.
>>
>> I did find it was good to swap
ents of NANOG digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. 365x24x7 (harbor235)
> 2. Re: New hijacks, and lots of them (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> 3. Re: 365x24x7 (Peter Hicks)
> 4. Re: 365x24x7 (Charles Mills)
> 5. RE: 365x24x7 (Greg Moore)
> 6. Re:
On 4/15/2011 3:14 AM, harbor235 wrote:
If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
need
to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
required
24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
thoughts, experience?
Mike
F
Guys,
Thanx alot, there is some great stuff here, also some stuff I had not
thought of.
thanx again,
Mike
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Tony Finch wrote:
> harbor235 wrote:
>
> > If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel
> > do I need to fully cover operation
harbor235 wrote:
> If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel
> do I need to fully cover operations?
Hours in the working year = 8 * 5 * 48 = 1920
Hours in the calendar year = 24 * 7 * 52 = 8736
Ratio= 4.55
Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.
, April 15, 2011 9:28 AM
To: nanog
Subject: Re: 365x24x7
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 2:14 PM, harbor235 wrote:
> If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
> need
> to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
> required
>
On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 2:14 PM, harbor235 wrote:
> If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
> need
> to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover the
> required
> 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
Well, if y
On Apr 15, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Greg Moore wrote:
> When I did this years ago I found 5 was really a minimum so that I could
> cover weekends and then had extra coverage as needed during the week.
>
> I did find it was good to swap out the graveyard shift every 6 months or so.
>
>
When I wo
On 04/15/2011 09:25 AM, Charles Mills wrote:
I've had it done in places where I work where you'll have 3 rotations
working 12 hour shifts.
In a 2 week pay period they get their 80 hours in a blend 36 one week
and 44 the next. It gives some nice consecutive days off time which
also doubles as a
When I did this years ago I found 5 was really a minimum so that I could cover
weekends and then had extra coverage as needed during the week.
I did find it was good to swap out the graveyard shift every 6 months or so.
-Original Message-
From: harbor235
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 9
I've had it done in places where I work where you'll have 3 rotations
working 12 hour shifts.
In a 2 week pay period they get their 80 hours in a blend 36 one week
and 44 the next. It gives some nice consecutive days off time which
also doubles as a retention tool for some employees. You might h
On 15 Apr 2011, at 14:14, harbor235 wrote:
> If I were going to provide a 365x24x7 NOC, how many teams of personnel do I
> need to fully cover operations? I assume minimally you need 3 teams to cover
> the
> required 24 hr coverage, but there is off time and schedule rotation?
Although more ge
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