Re: Netflix root cause for the Tyson/Paul

On a related note, would be curious to see how everyone’s Netflix experience was during last week’s Christmas football games. Probably region specific, but since our local team was playing, there was a substantial amount of eyeballs viewing it. We had a much better outcome than the Tyson/Paul

Netflix root cause for the Tyson/Paul

Anyone from Netflix, curious if you’ll be putting out a root cause / debrief about the Tyson / Paul fight issues? I’m terribly curious about it and I think it would be very informative and helpful to everyone, to understand the point at which things broke down. -Pete- The contents of this e

Netflix OCA Contact

I'm looking for somebody at Netflix that can help me resolve an issue with their ticketing system. A couple of years ago, they told us that we did not have enough traffic to get an OCA but they would continue to monitor it. I tried to check in with them again and it just auto-closes the t

Re: Netflix peering contact

Just got movement on our case. Would like to attribute it to someone on this list (if so, thank you!), but something tells me there was another event that led to it happening. :-) Cheers, Tim > On Nov 15, 2024, at 14:43, Tim Burke wrote: > > Any peering folks from 2906 on the list? Have a se

Re: Soooo..... Netflix

i have (3) oca's ... 2 connected at 100g each, and 1 at dual 100g lag... with an operational throughput capacity of the nodes being something less than that, i forget the exact node(s) throughput specs, but anyway... about the 11/15/2024 Tyson/Paul Netflix fights from 6 - 7 p.m. ce

Re: Soooo..... Netflix

ot cause. I have no doubt the Netflix folks will sort it – they’ve got some very smart transport layer and CDN folks. JL

Re: Soooo..... Netflix

We have several caches and PNIs. Call-volume was high. On 11/17/24 19:25, Mike Hammett wrote: Armchair quarterbacking... Discussions I've seen from operators on Facebook shows some that had PNIs that worked just fine, while others with PNIs and cache boxes didn't fare so well. Some with jus

Re: Soooo..... Netflix

t; > My experience over a home internet fiber connection wasn’t great (like > everyone else’s) but my son was watching it over his mobile device without > any issues. > > *From:* NANOG *On > Behalf Of *Tom Beecher > *Sent:* Monday, November 18, 2024 12:23 AM > *To:* Mike Hammet

Re: Soooo..... Netflix

gt; > Cc: NANOG mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> > Subject: Re: S. Netflix > > > PHISHING ALERT > This email has been sent from an account outside of the BAE Systems network. > > Be aware that this could be a phishing attempt. For more guidance, search > "phish

Re: Soooo..... Netflix

On Mon, Nov 18, 2024 at 6:17 AM Livingood, Jason via NANOG wrote: > *> *My experience over a home internet fiber connection wasn’t great > (like everyone else’s) but my son was watching it over his mobile device > without any issues. > > That may be an interesting data point – because mobile netw

Re: Soooo..... Netflix

> My experience over a home internet fiber connection wasn’t great (like > everyone else’s) but my son was watching it over his mobile device without > any issues. That may be an interesting data point – because mobile networks typically rate-shape video streams. JL

Re: Soooo..... Netflix

> Yeah, normally I hold them up as the poster child for a scalable CDN but I’m > hoping they release an RCA explaining what happened. I guess for then it was the difference between pre-recorded content they are used to, vs a live event. I wonder what the latency between live and the stream look

RE: Soooo..... Netflix

, November 18, 2024 12:23 AM To: Mike Hammett Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: S. Netflix PHISHING ALERT This email has been sent from an account outside of the BAE Systems network. Be aware that this could be a phishing attempt. For more guidance, search "phishing email" on Connect. If

Re: Soooo..... Netflix

> > What were your educated observations, preferably with supporting data? If it was capacity issues, they learned a hard lesson that you should have other CDNs available to shed traffic over to if yours hits a problem that can't be quickly solved in real time. If it was server/software/livestre

Re: [EXTERNAL] Soooo..... Netflix

alf of Mike Hammett Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2024 12:25:59 PM To: NANOG Subject: [EXTERNAL] S. Netflix CAUTION: The e-mail below is from an external source. Please exercise caution before opening attachments, clicking links, or following guidance. Armchair quarterbacking... Discussion

Re: Soooo..... Netflix

Yeah, normally I hold them up as the poster child for a scalable CDN but I’m hoping they release an RCA explaining what happened. On Sun, Nov 17, 2024 at 10:27 AM Mike Hammett wrote: > Armchair quarterbacking... > > Discussions I've seen from operators on Facebook shows some that had PNIs > that

Re: Soooo..... Netflix

To understand the (historic) event by the numbers: https://about.netflix.com/en/news/60-million-households-tuned-in-live-for-jake-paul-vs-mike-tyson . On Sun, Nov 17, 2024 at 11:47 AM Maurice Brown wrote: > Yeah, normally I hold them up as the poster child for a scalable CDN but > I’m hoping t

Soooo..... Netflix

Armchair quarterbacking... Discussions I've seen from operators on Facebook shows some that had PNIs that worked just fine, while others with PNIs and cache boxes didn't fare so well. Some with just cache boxes were fine, while others were not. What were your educated observations, preferably w

Netflix peering contact

Any peering folks from 2906 on the list? Have a several month old case open about getting some PNI’s stood up… sent over an LOA but haven’t heard anything since. Thanks, Tim

Netflix login via v6 broken

Netflix netops/eng folks, you might want to take a look at your login and pw reset flows for IPv6. Chased a problem all morning of not being able to login, problems resetting passwords, and not being able to login immediately after pw reset. Tried on multiple devices. All solved by disabling

Re: Correcting Netflix ipv6 geolocation

> On 19 Oct 2023, at 02:09, Justin Kilpatrick wrote: > > Our ipv6 subnet 2602::FBAD::/40 is You likely mean 2602:FBAD::/40, as the one above is not a valid IPv6 address ;) BGP wise it seems only 2602:fbad:8::/45 and 2602:fbad:10::/45 are announced as per https://bgp.tools/as/400429#prefixe

Correcting Netflix ipv6 geolocation

Our ipv6 subnet 2602::FBAD::/40 is showing up as in Kiev Ukraine on Fast.com and Netflix.com which is causing all sorts of problems for our US based customers. Other services like Google and MaxMind don't seem to have any issue and report correct locations. Happy to follow up with more informat

Would someone from Sling.com and Netflix contact me off-list

Would someone from Sling.com and Netflix contact me off-list I am running into issues with several of my home internet users being blocked from your services. Thanks, Anthony Leto Flying Man Studio, LLC AS393941 anth...@fms.io

Netflix GeoIP location support

Any Netflix folk on the list that would be able to fix a Geo-IP location lookup issue for end-user assignments in the SF Bay Area (Some of which are Netflix employees)? Your Geo-IP Lookup Helpdesk takes the matter a little too nonchalant with no sense of urgency (2-3 weeks). Any help would be

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 3:41 PM Matthew Walster wrote: The user initiates the connection to the CDN. The user is paying for a level of access to the internet via the BT network, with varying tiers of speed at particular costs. They are advertised as "Unlimited broadband: With no data caps or downl

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

I don't know what they are putting in the water in Korea, but strange things are reported from there. In addition to the SK Telecom shenanigans, apparently KT can't tell the difference between a DDoS and a routing error. https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20211025006253320 - Jared

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/21/21 20:28, Fred Baker wrote: I’m not sure I disagree, but let throw in a point of consideration. Historically, as you note, the caller pays the toll. However, the caller also CHOSE to call, even though the called party might find the call irritating. With a CDN, the network is out t

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Uh, that is what is being said… The user originated the call, so the CDN shouldn’t have to pay the user’s ISP to deliver the replies to the users’ requests. Owen > On Oct 21, 2021, at 11:28 , Fred Baker wrote: > > I’m not sure I disagree, but let throw in a point of consideration. > Historic

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Thu, 21 Oct 2021, 19:28 Fred Baker, wrote: > I’m not sure I disagree, but let throw in a point of consideration. > Historically, as you note, the caller pays the toll. However, the caller > also CHOSE to call, even though the called party might find the call > irritating. With a CDN, the netwo

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

I’m not sure I disagree, but let throw in a point of consideration. Historically, as you note, the caller pays the toll. However, the caller also CHOSE to call, even though the called party might find the call irritating. With a CDN, the network is out there hoping to be called, and the user mak

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 at 17:43, Owen DeLong wrote: > > On Oct 21, 2021, at 06:30 , Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail) < > allenmckinleykitc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I totally agree that this is not a perfect analogy. But I have some > sympathy for both parties in this debate. > > Close enough on the an

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

ense, I as a called party did indeed find it necessary to pay > substantial fees for the privilege of being called. > > And when I instituted toll-free calling, of course I paid significantly more. Sure… However, sufficient connection is represented by Netflix investing in sufficient PNIs

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

ve > coordination of demand than there is today” > > https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/10/squid-games-success-reopens-debate-over-who-should-pay-for-rising-internet-traffic-netflix > > > For reference British Telecom has about 10 million broadband subscribers, so

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

..Allen > On Oct 20, 2021, at 15:43, Matthew Walster wrote, among > other things: > > Seems pretty disingenuous to now say the called party has to pay as well, in > stark contrast to decades of precedent with their telephone product, just > because their customers are actually using what t

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 at 19:53, Jared Brown wrote: > “When the rules were created 25 years ago I don’t think anyone would have > envisioned four or five companies would be driving 80% of the traffic on > the world’s internet. They aren’t making a contribution to the services > they are being carrie

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

-over-who-should-pay-for-rising-internet-traffic-netflix For reference British Telecom has about 10 million broadband subscribers, so apparently those £200m capacity upgrades are stinging. All in all, this raises an interesting question. Is British Telecom running their networks so hot, that

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> playback to explain the situation to their mutual customers. Instead of the > typical FBI notice, imagine the movie starting with an ad that explains how > the ISP is trying to increase consumer costs by forcing Netflix to > pass along additional fees paid to the ISP to deliver content

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

customers. Instead of the > typical FBI notice, imagine the movie starting with an ad that explains > how the ISP is trying to increase consumer costs by forcing Netflix to > pass along additional fees paid to the ISP to deliver content the customer > has already paid said same ISP to del

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 18, 2021, at 14:48 , Jay Hennigan wrote: > > On 10/18/21 07:02, Josh Luthman wrote: > >>Netflix, as an example, has even been willing to bear most of the cost >>with peering or bringing servers to ISPs to reduce the ISP's costs and >>im

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/18/21 07:02, Josh Luthman wrote: Netflix, as an example, has even been willing to bear most of the cost with peering or bringing servers to ISPs to reduce the ISP's costs and improve the ISP customer's experience. Netflix doesn't do those things because it

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Subject: Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge On 10/10/21 12:57 PM, Mark Tinka wrote: On 10/10/21 21:33, Matthew Petach wrote: If you sell a service for less than it costs to provide, simply based on the hopes that people won't actually *use* it, that&#x

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

you'll grasp at your position even harder to ensure that you will continue to get paid. You are SK Telecom. On 10/18/2021 9:02 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Imagine it's 2008 and your AP is pushing out 3 mbps. Customers are all happy.  Suddenly, Netflix demands 10x what you're offering.  Cu

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Imagine it's 2008 and your AP is pushing out 3 mbps. Customers are all happy. Suddenly, Netflix demands 10x what you're offering. Customers are not happy. Customers don't understand. People don't understand. There are a million cogs in the machine and if the path of le

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

I agree with you generally. It's not impossible, but probably unlikely for an individual to be sued for contents of cookie data or similar small fragments like that. I do believe it's orders of more magnitude more likely for the 'average' residential consumer to attract a suit from the MPAA/RIAA/

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/13/21 2:39 AM, Doug Barton wrote: On the cookie issue, I have had very good luck with this in Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/cookie-autodelete/ - Nice, I have the setti

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On the cookie issue, I have had very good luck with this in Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/cookie-autodelete/ hope this helps, Doug On 10/12/21 6:26 AM, scott wrote: On 10/12/21 9:15 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: So, I take it you steadfastly block *all* cookies from

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/12/21 9:15 PM, Matthew Petach wrote: So, I take it you steadfastly block *all* cookies from being stored or transmitted from your browser at home? --\ I used to when Firefox had the "ask me every time" for cookies. They go

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 2:01 PM Tom Beecher wrote: > I think it would be absolutely *stunning* for content providers >> to turn the model on its head; use a bittorrent like model for >> caching and serving content out of subscribers homes at >> recalcitrant ISPs, so that data doesn't come from ou

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> > I think it would be absolutely *stunning* for content providers > to turn the model on its head; use a bittorrent like model for > caching and serving content out of subscribers homes at > recalcitrant ISPs, so that data doesn't come from outside, > it comes out of the mesh within the eyeball n

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Tue, 12 Oct 2021, 02:24 Owen DeLong, wrote: > > A 4K 2 hour movie is about 40GB. Most modern smart TVs around 32GB of RAM > and can probably devote about 20GB of that to buffering a stream, so yeah, > that should actually be doable. > Most users are not streaming 4K, it's a very small fractio

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 8:16 AM Jared Brown wrote: > Mark Tinka wrote: [...] > > > But I doubt that > > will work, unless someone can think up a clever way to modify BitTorrent > > to suit today's network architectures. > Unless network topology is somehow exposed, this isn't possible. All >

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

lecom-reports-revenue-increase-in-2q21-as-5g-subscriber-numbers-rise/ > > Nevertheless, let's go with the hypothesis that service is provided below > cost. > > Providing access is mostly fixed costs, as there are very few consumables in > running a network. > > IP tr

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 08:13 , Jared Brown wrote: > > Mark Tinka wrote: >> Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I know BitTorrent to >> work is the file is downloaded to disk, unarchived and then listed as >> ready to watch. > That's not how it works. Several streaming BitTorrent c

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 06:45 , Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 10/11/21 22:57, Matthew Walster wrote: > >> Ignoring for the moment that P2P is inherently difficult to stream with >> (you're usually downloading chunks in parallel, and with devices like Smart >> TVs etc you don't really have the

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/12/21 18:33, Sabri Berisha wrote: Yes, let's go back to 2003. The ISP I worked for at that time was one of the first in the country (if not the first) to host Akamai's caching servers. Ten years later I worked on a project where Akamai caching was embedded in subscriber management rout

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

- On Oct 11, 2021, at 12:58 AM, Mark Tinka mark@tinka.africa wrote: Hi, > However, in an era where content is making a push to get as close to the > eyeballs as possible, kit getting cheaper and faster because of merchant > silicon, and abundance of aggregated capacity at exchange points, can

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Hello, > Providing access is mostly fixed costs, as there are very few consumables in > running a network. > > IP transit costs aren't an issue, since Netflix will do settlement free > peering. > > This leaves the internal network of SK Telecom as the problem and

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

s provided below cost. Providing access is mostly fixed costs, as there are very few consumables in running a network. IP transit costs aren't an issue, since Netflix will do settlement free peering. This leaves the internal network of SK Telecom as the problem and cost center. The

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/12/21 17:39, Jared Brown wrote: Since we aren't talking about random pirated content, but p2p streaming from a major content provider it would obviously be point & click. Yes, in which case Jane + Thatho don't need to worry about device compatibility, especially if the device is

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Mark Tinka wrote: >> Well, yes. Or you could just stream content that is guaranteed to be >> compatible with the device used. > > People on this list would bother to check compatibility. > > Jane + Thatho just point & click. Since we aren't talking about random pirated content, but p2p streaming

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/12/21 17:13, Jared Brown wrote: That's not how it works. Several streaming BitTorrent clients specifically request blocks in order so that you can start watching immediately. Not that you need a special client, it works pretty well with the standard client as well on a well seeded

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Mark Tinka wrote: > Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I know BitTorrent to > work is the file is downloaded to disk, unarchived and then listed as > ready to watch. That's not how it works. Several streaming BitTorrent clients specifically request blocks in order so that you can s

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 22:57, Matthew Walster wrote: Ignoring for the moment that P2P is inherently difficult to stream with (you're usually downloading chunks in parallel, and with devices like Smart TVs etc you don't really have the storage to do so anyway) there's also the problem that things like B

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/12/21 14:20, Jason Iannone wrote: Isn't this a problem with legacy peering agreements in today's internet? The same thing happened between Netflix, Level3, and Verizon a few years ago. The legacy concept of settlement-free peering is based on traffic forwarding parity.

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 22:05, Matthew Petach wrote: Let's check back in 2026, and see if someone's become fantastically successful doing this or not.  ;) I have to say, your idea is quite fantastical. I'm not sure I have enough brain cells to consider how it will work, remembering that vCPE's were a

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Isn't this a problem with legacy peering agreements in today's internet? The same thing happened between Netflix, Level3, and Verizon a few years ago. The legacy concept of settlement-free peering is based on traffic forwarding parity. If what I forward to you roughly matches what you

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 11, 2021, at 13:57 , Matthew Walster wrote: > > > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 at 21:05, Matthew Petach > wrote: > I think it would be absolutely *stunning* for content providers > to turn the model on its head; use a bittorrent like model for > caching and

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 11, 2021, at 13:05 , Matthew Petach wrote: > > > > On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 1:01 AM Mark Tinka wrote: > However, in an era where content is making a push to get as close to the > eyeballs as possible, kit getting cheaper and faster because of merchant > silicon, and abundance of ag

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 at 21:05, Matthew Petach wrote: > I think it would be absolutely *stunning* for content providers > to turn the model on its head; use a bittorrent like model for > caching and serving content out of subscribers homes at > recalcitrant ISPs, so that data doesn't come from outs

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

a consumer paying for my 4k stream, I know who I'm calling when it > drops to 480 and it ain't Netflix. The eyeballs are most definitely not > happy. > > Mike > I apologize for that. I was tired after two back-to-back days of board meetings, and I missed putting a clear

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 1:01 AM Mark Tinka wrote: > However, in an era where content is making a push to get as close to the > eyeballs as possible, kit getting cheaper and faster because of merchant > silicon, and abundance of aggregated capacity at exchange points, can we > leverage the shorter

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

ain't Netflix. The eyeballs are most definitely not happy. Mike

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

ver content they are failing to deliver onto the content provider that is trying to live up to their agreement with their user. IIRC, Netflix charges extra for a 4K level subscription these days, so an end user that paid for 4K service and got 240p because their ISP managed to force Netflix into a low

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 11, 2021, at 00:32 , Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 10/11/21 02:58, Owen DeLong wrote: > >> That’s irrelevant to what he is saying. >> >> What he’s saying (and he’s 100% correct) is that any tax a corporation pays >> is collected from their customers one way or another. >> >> A co

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> I am almost sure Netflix have some degree of presence in South Korea. What > I'm not sure about is what else SK wants them to do beyond that. They’ve made it pretty clear… They want Netflix to pay their protection^wbandwidth charges. >> And for the record, not only have I ne

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 11, 2021, at 00:01 , Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 10/11/21 00:31, Geoff Huston wrote: > >> In many environments, the words we use to describe this form of price >> setting are generally prefixed by the adjective “illegal” :-) > > Indeed - colluding is generally frowned upon, in w

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 17:26, Niels Bakker wrote: I don't think that's being entirely fair. Netflix in plenty places differentiates its subscriptions based partly on video resolution: https://help.netflix.com/en/node/24926/us Some people will definitely care enough to sign up

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

* mark@tinka.africa (Mark Tinka) [Mon 11 Oct 2021, 17:18 CEST]: To be fair, Jane + Thatho don't care about video resolution. I don't think that's being entirely fair. Netflix in plenty places differentiates its subscriptions based partly on video resolution: https://help.netf

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 8:11 PM Doug Barton wrote: > On 10/1/21 7:45 AM, Mark Tinka wrote: > > > The reason that Netflix doesn't want to do it is the same reason that > ISPs don't want to charge their customers what it really costs to > provide them access. > SO

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

agine you're an eyeball network that happens to have peering with SKB, and largely inbound traffic flows. Wouldn't it make sense for you to reach out to a player like Netflix, and offer to host content cache boxes that happen to only answer requests coming from SKB IP space, at a price

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 00:10, Niels Bakker wrote: Sounds like you think SK should be paying Netflix for bringing their content all the way from the US to the Korean peninsula. That's some expensive wet cable being used there. Do we know whether Netflix don't already have OCA's and/o

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/10/21 23:57, Sabri Berisha wrote: I have worked for ISPs. And I remember the late 90s. Bandwidth was $35/mbit on average, at least for the outfit where I was. Consumers paid roughly $40 for their DSL connections, which at the time went up to 2Mbit depending on the age of the copper and

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

lp the Internet run better. > And to answer Matthew's question, I don't know what "a lot" is. I think > the market should determine that as well. > The market *is* determining that at the moment...but not in the direction people expect. Instead, it's creating a n

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 02:58, Owen DeLong wrote: That’s irrelevant to what he is saying. What he’s saying (and he’s 100% correct) is that any tax a corporation pays is collected from their customers one way or another. A corporation has no other source of income with which to pay its taxes beyond th

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 03:05, Owen DeLong wrote: Which is the kind of ignorant view of the situation that creates this problem in the first place. It’s not for “no $$”, it’s for all the $$ they got from all those 100Mbps links that they are delivering those Tbps of traffic to. If the aggregate $$ th

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

pular, in which case, we don't have to worry about them flooding backbone links. I am almost sure Netflix have some degree of presence in South Korea. What I'm not sure about is what else SK wants them to do beyond that. And to answer Matthew's question, I don't know

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 01:43, Keith Medcalf wrote: This is blatantly incorrect. The bits were payed for by the requestor. You totally missed my dig... I was being sarcastic. Mark.

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/11/21 00:31, Geoff Huston wrote: In many environments, the words we use to describe this form of price setting are generally prefixed by the adjective “illegal” :-) Indeed - colluding is generally frowned upon, in which case we are doomed to the current model, and may the best man w

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 10, 2021, at 13:21 , Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 10/10/21 22:13, Michael Thomas wrote: > >> Isn't that what Erlang numbers are all about? My suspicion is that after >> about 100Mbs most people wouldn't notice the difference in most cases. My >> ISP is about 25Mbs on a good day (

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 10, 2021, at 13:18 , Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 10/10/21 22:10, Geoff Huston wrote: > >> I have to agree with Doug Barton's earlier observation is that the base >> problem is that the ISPs are using a flawed business model and they don't >> want to charge their customers what i

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

>> (in the same way that corporations don't pay taxes, their customers do),... > > > Many a company pays corporate tax, which is separate from the income tax they > pay for compensation to their staff. > > Of course, YMMV depending on where you live. That’s irrelevant to what he is saying. Wh

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On Oct 10, 2021, at 12:08 , Doug Barton wrote: > > On 10/1/21 7:45 AM, Mark Tinka wrote: >> The reason Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon, e.t.c., all built their own >> global backbones is because of this nonsense that SK Broadband is trying to >> pull with

RE: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On Sunday, 10 October, 2021 14:21, Mark Tinka wrote: >They are looking at the aggregate Gbps or Tbps of traffic that >BigContent is seeking to deliver across their network, for "no $$". This is blatantly incorrect. The bits were payed for by the requestor. BigContent does not "send bits" to n

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

Netflix has programs for which many ISPs - even smaller are able to build a cache system. This may help the ISP who filed suit here - That being said - Our Consultancy has helped a number of smaller ISPs build using the Open Connect options - however for many they cannot justify the want from

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

> On 11 Oct 2021, at 7:18 am, Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 10/10/21 22:10, Geoff Huston wrote: > >> I have to agree with Doug Barton's earlier observation is that the base >> problem is that the ISPs are using a flawed business model and they don't >> want to charge their customers what it

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

best/least bad option. Whether "something" is a local cache box, peering, money, or is something I think that the market should determine. Sounds like you think SK should be paying Netflix for bringing their content all the way from the US to the Korean peninsula. That'

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

- On Oct 10, 2021, at 2:42 PM, Doug Barton do...@dougbarton.us wrote: Hi, > And for the record, not only have I never worked for an ISP, I was > saying all the way back in the late '90s that the oversubscription > business model (which almost always includes punishing users who > actually use

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

the corporation paying them. Like all other expenses, they are factored into the cost of goods/services sold. so the people on that ISP who are creating the increased demand would be (indirectly) paying for the increased capacity. That's actually fairer for the other customers who aren&#

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/10/21 22:13, Michael Thomas wrote: Isn't that what Erlang numbers are all about? My suspicion is that after about 100Mbs most people wouldn't notice the difference in most cases. My ISP is about 25Mbs on a good day (DSL) and it serves our needs fine and have never run into bandwidth c

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

On 10/10/21 22:10, Geoff Huston wrote: I have to agree with Doug Barton's earlier observation is that the base problem is that the ISPs are using a flawed business model and they don't want to charge their customers what it really costs to provide them with high speed access, nor do they w

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