Re: The Making of a Router

Hello Baldur, Your design regarding proxy arp for every VLAN might hit some issues. If you look at the nanog history you will find people having issues with proxy arp for large number of VLANs, what is your requirement for proxy arp? Doing something at the access switch will most likely be better

Re: The Making of a Router

There has been a lot of conversation lately regarding 10Gbps+ routing without higher cost devices such as the junipers. I have been looking into a few options myself, below are my opinions so far. What are your recommendations, real life experiences and ideas? -Mikrotik Cloud Core Router The M

Re: The Making of a Router

At the very least, could we fight about something worthwhile? I¹m all for a good fight, and I¹m the first one to trigger the nuclear explosion.. But the subject matter of this peepee competition is tiring. I query the nanog gods frequently, sometimes you get useful feedback and sometimes you get a

Re: The Making of a Router

>Warren Bailey >via nanog.org : >I propose cage fighting at the next NANOG summit. Reminds me of some of the BOFs in 2000ish. Anyway, Ray's "TL;DR I think the backlash against anything but big iron routing is becoming a

Re: The Making of a Router

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013, William Waites wrote: On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 07:23:36 -0500 (EST), "Justin M. Streiner" said: > You end up combining some of the downsides of a hardware-based > router with some of the downsides of a server (new attack > vectors, another device that needs to be back

Re: The Making of a Router

This has gotten a bit ridiculous. I was hoping someone could give technical insight into why this is good or not and not just "buy a box branded as a router because I said so or your business will fail". I'm all for hearing about the business theory of running an ISP (not my background or day

Re: The Making of a Router

I propose cage fighting at the next NANOG summit. Sent from my Mobile Device. Original message From: Randy Bush Date: 12/27/2013 7:07 PM (GMT-09:00) To: valdis.kletni...@vt.edu Cc: North American Network Operators' Group Subject: Re: The Making of a Router > Right. And th

Re: The Making of a Router

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:06:26 -0500, Randy Bush said: > not to worry. growth is not going to be an issue doing openflow due to > today's tcam limits. I said burn rate, not growth rate, Randy.. .:) pgppkYVsYy42z.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: The Making of a Router

> Right. And the point that others are trying to make clear is that if > that $100K is half your capitalization, you have $200K - and that's > nowhere near enought to cover all the stuff you're going to hit > starting an ISP. (Hint - what's your projected burn rate for the > first two months of b

Re: The Making of a Router

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 02:18:55 +0100, Baldur Norddahl said: > I was saying $100k for two Juniper routers total. Right. And the point that others are trying to make clear is that if that $100K is half your capitalization, you have $200K - and that's nowhere near enought to cover all the stuff you'r

Re: The Making of a Router

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:37:52 +, Faisal Imtiaz said: > e.g. If someone says I need a 10g interface, why is it automatically assumed > that the router is going to be running @ Full Line Rate ? It may not be full line rate - but it's a pretty sure bet that you plan to run it at a fairly high per

Re: The Making of a Router

On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 4:10 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > clearly you have a deep understanding of what you are doing, the market, > what costs and capabilities are, and where to get what you need. now > please remind me of what it was you were asking. > > randy > I asked if anyone here has experien

Re: The Making of a Router

clearly you have a deep understanding of what you are doing, the market, what costs and capabilities are, and where to get what you need. now please remind me of what it was you were asking. randy

Re: The Making of a Router

On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 3:50 AM, Brian Loveland wrote: > Interested on where you are buying transit at $1750/mo for full 10G ports > ($0.175/meg)? > > I did not that claim that. I said two times $21k divided by 12 = $3500 per month. Try he.net. Regards, Baldur

Re: The Making of a Router

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 07:23:36 -0500 (EST), "Justin M. Streiner" said: > You end up combining some of the downsides of a hardware-based > router with some of the downsides of a server (new attack > vectors, another device that needs to be backed up, patched, and > monitored... Mig

Re: The Making of a Router

Interested on where you are buying transit at $1750/mo for full 10G ports ($0.175/meg)? On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Jon Sands wrote: > > > Yes, and in that world, one should probably not start up a FTTH ISP when > > one has not even

Re: The Making of a Router

On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 3:14 AM, Jon Lewis wrote: > On Fri, 27 Dec 2013, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > > Another told Nick Cameo that if he can afford a 10G link, he can afford >> Juniper. You could not be more wrong. The 10G uplink goes for $0 in >> initial >> fee and less than $4k / month with unli

Re: The Making of a Router

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013, Baldur Norddahl wrote: Another told Nick Cameo that if he can afford a 10G link, he can afford Juniper. You could not be more wrong. The 10G uplink goes for $0 in initial fee and less than $4k / month with unlimited traffic. The Juniper gear is $100k up front for two routers

Re: The Making of a Router

On a side note, Q-in-Q support has been added to the recent 3.10 Linux kernel, configured using the "ip" command. It will be popping up in distributions "soon [tm]". Another interesting addition is IPv6 NAT (transparent redirect, prefix translation, etc). On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Baldur

Re: The Making of a Router

On 12/27/2013 8:18 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: Brocade NetIron CER 2024F-4X goes for about $21k As one last aside, if you're paying 21k, you're paying a little more than twice too much. Call Brocade and get yourself a real quote. I think peoples main point here is that any handful of thousand

Re: The Making of a Router

On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Jon Sands wrote: > Yes, and in that world, one should probably not start up a FTTH ISP when > one has not even budgeted for a router, among a thousand other things. And > if you must, you should probably figure out your cost breakdown beforehand, > not after. Bal

Re: The Making of a Router

On 28 Dec 2013, at 00:13 , Ray Soucy wrote: > It seems to be a pretty "hot button" issue, but I feel that modern hardware > is more than capable of pushing packets. The old wisdom of "only hardware > can do it efficiently" is starting to prove untrue. 10G might still be a > challenge (I haven't

Re: The Making of a Router

It seems to be a pretty "hot button" issue, but I feel that modern hardware is more than capable of pushing packets. The old wisdom of "only hardware can do it efficiently" is starting to prove untrue. 10G might still be a challenge (I haven't tested), but 1G is not even close to being an issue.

Re: The Making of a Router

On 12/27/2013 4:23 PM, Matt Palmer wrote: There *is* a world outside of Silly Valley, you know... a world where money doesn't flow like a mighty cascade from the benevolent wallets of vulture capitalists, into the waiting arms of every crackpot with an elevator pitch. - Matt Yes, and in that

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

Regards Alexander Alexander Neilson Neilson Productions Ltd alexan...@neilson.net.nz 021 329 681 > On 28/12/2013, at 5:06 am, Eduardo Schoedler wrote: > > PPPoE Server is single thread too. PPP package is getting a multicore upgrade in 6.8 or 6.9 release. May introduce bugs but they are w

BGP Update Report

BGP Update Report Interval: 19-Dec-13 -to- 26-Dec-13 (7 days) Observation Point: BGP Peering with AS131072 TOP 20 Unstable Origin AS Rank ASNUpds % Upds/PfxAS-Name 1 - AS982958402 3.2% 62.1 -- BSNL-NIB National Internet Backbone 2 - AS84025

The Cidr Report

This report has been generated at Fri Dec 27 21:13:40 2013 AEST. The report analyses the BGP Routing Table of AS2.0 router and generates a report on aggregation potential within the table. Check http://www.cidr-report.org/2.0 for a current version of this report. Recent Table History Date

Re: Vyatta to VyOS

This is great. I've been using Vyatta for a long while, but the constant bugs and the lack of turnaround on fixing them was really sad. With my lovely sales rep Erica calling me up every now and again trying to sell more licenses, in the way only soulless sales drones can. Extract money from th

Re: The Making of a Router

On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Justin M. Streiner wrote: > If you want to use servers as routers, that's your choice. I think what > most people in the thread have been saying is not to use one server (or > even a pair of servers) for everything. It's one thing if server XYZ goes > down and s

Re: The Making of a Router

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Most 'DYI' solutions, make the non-techy bean counters very nervous, and seeing a major 'name brand' label for some odd reason makes them real comfortable, ir-respective of the capabilities or function of either solution. For a lot of organizations,

Re: The Making of a Router

Fair point.. but in real life, isn't that true for everything... I say the same be familiar(honest awareness) with the limits (limitations) and capabilities of your specific solution, be it a 'dyi' or a commercial solution, before pushing it to the limit. Unless of course, you have factore

Re: The Making of a Router

On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 10:18:47AM -0500, Jon Sands wrote: > On Dec 27, 2013 10:08 AM, "Baldur Norddahl" > wrote: > > > We are an upstart and just buying the fancy Juniper switch times two > would burn half of my seed capital. > > Then you didn't ask for nearly enough capital. There *is* a worl

Re: The Making of a Router

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013, Baldur Norddahl wrote: Everybody have critical services running on servers. DHCP, DNS, Radius and so on are all on servers and you will be down if these services are down. What is with the knee jerk reaction for suggesting that the BGP daemon could also be run on a server? T

Re: The Making of a Router

On Dec 27, 2013, at 3:37 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: > e.g. If someone says I need a 10g interface, why is it automatically assumed > that the router is going to be running @ Full Line Rate ? Those of us with experience know that when “something bad(tm)” happens, those features and “expensive si

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

How about SMP Affinity in CCR? System > Resources > IRQ. 2013/12/27 Andre Tomt > On 27. des. 2013 17:26, Jim Shankland wrote: > > > Routing table size was completely not an issue in our environment; we >> were looking at a number of concurrent flows in the high-5 to >> low-6-digit range, and

Re: The Making of a Router

I Am not trying to be inflammatory.. Why does everything has to be measured in Extremes ? e.g. If someone says I need a 10g interface, why is it automatically assumed that the router is going to be running @ Full Line Rate ? I think we often confuse the performance of "Software" and Hardware as

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

On 27. des. 2013 17:26, Jim Shankland wrote: Routing table size was completely not an issue in our environment; we were looking at a number of concurrent flows in the high-5 to low-6-digit range, and since Linux uses a route cache, it was that number, rather than the number of full tables we car

Re: The Making of a Router

Well said Baldur For those who are movie buffs.. here is the snippet that visually summaries.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEkOT3IngMQ As to the knee jerk reaction to a server doing routing such folks tend to forget that Routers are purpose built serversand most of the Interne

Re: The Making of a Router

On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Jon Sands wrote: > > > On Dec 27, 2013 10:08 AM, "Baldur Norddahl" > > wrote: > > > > > We are an upstart and just buying the fancy Juniper switch times two > > would burn half of my seed capital. > > >

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

Depends. This router isn't running BCP-38 as it's run at our borders. Looking at the specs. Firewall rules do take it out of fastpath. Which means it's going to take a decent performance hit on paper. I'm not sure if their auto method of enabling BCP-38 IE. the IP>Settings>RP Filter method woul

Re: The Making of a Router

On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Jon Sands wrote: > On Dec 27, 2013 10:08 AM, "Baldur Norddahl" > wrote: > > > We are an upstart and just buying the fancy Juniper switch times two > would burn half of my seed capital. > > Then you didn't ask for nearly enough capital. > Another told Nick Cameo

AOL Postmaster

Can a AOL Postmaster hit me off-list please J Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition " Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://ww

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

nanog-requ...@nanog.org said: > We replaced a few Maxxwave 6 port Atom's with the CCR. ~400Mb/s and ~40K > pps aggregate across all ports. CPU load went from ~25% to ~0-2%. These are > in a configuration where they have little or no firewall/nat/queue rules. > And in most cases are running MPLS.

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

On 12/27/13, 10:01, Justin Wilson wrote: The issues I see are because of routers versions. The Cloud core routers are a fairly new platform. As such, the software isn¹t as stable as it should be. The OS is up to version 6.7. There were some betas before 6.0 was released. However, alm

Weekly Routing Table Report

This is an automated weekly mailing describing the state of the Internet Routing Table as seen from APNIC's router in Japan. The posting is sent to APOPS, NANOG, AfNOG, AusNOG, SANOG, PacNOG, LacNOG, TRNOG, CaribNOG and the RIPE Routing Working Group. Daily listings are sent to bgp-st...@lists.ap

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

The issues I see are because of routers versions. The Cloud core routers are a fairly new platform. As such, the software isn¹t as stable as it should be. The OS is up to version 6.7. There were some betas before 6.0 was released. However, almost every version that has been released ad

RE: Help me make sense of these traceroutes please

Thanks to everyone who responded off list and on. Sam Moats On 2013-12-26 11:21, Josephson, Marcus wrote: Start at slide 50: This is documented further by the following Nanog presentation. http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog47/presentations/Sunday/RAS_Traceroute_N47_Sun.pdf -Marcus -Ori

Megapath/Covad DNS broken?

Hello, Seems like some Megapath/Covad DNS servers are non-responsive: 64.105.172.26 64.105.172.27 We have dozens of end-users down that utilize these servers. Anyone from MP/Covad alive this morning?? Thanks, -Bobby

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

On 12/27/13 6:40 AM, matt kelly wrote: They can not handle a full routing table. The load balancing doesn't work. They can not properly reassemble fragmented packets, and therefore drop all but the first "piece". They can not reliably handle traffic loads over maybe 200 Mbps, we needed 4-6 Gbps c

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

PPPoE Server is single thread too. 2013/12/27 Nick Olsen > Exactly what Faisal Said. The BGP process appears to be single threaded at > the moment. So taking on full BGP tables can be a bit slow compared to a > decent X86 box. But in terms of raw forwarding power they are pretty > monstrous. >

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

Exactly what Faisal Said. The BGP process appears to be single threaded at the moment. So taking on full BGP tables can be a bit slow compared to a decent X86 box. But in terms of raw forwarding power they are pretty monstrous. We replaced a few Maxxwave 6 port Atom's with the CCR. ~400Mb/s and

Re: The Making of a Router

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013, Andrew D Kirch wrote: If he can afford a 10G link... he should be buying real gear... I mean, look, I've got plenty of infrastructure horror stories, but lets not cobble together our own 10gbit solutions, please? At least get one of the new microtik CCR's with a 10gig sf

Re: The Making of a Router

On gio, 2013-12-26 at 11:33 -0500, Nick Cameo wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > We are looking to put together a 2u server with a few PCIe 3 x8 > (recommendations appreciated). The router will take a voip transcoding > line card, and will act as an edge router for a telecom company. > > For things lik

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

FYI... Mikrotik Cloud Core routers are nice, however one has to keep something in mind when deploying them... Only One Core (of the CPU) is dedicated to each port / process. So this is good so as to contain what happens on a single port from taxing the whole CPU.. But not so good when you need

Re: The Making of a Router

On Dec 27, 2013 10:08 AM, "Baldur Norddahl" wrote: > We are an upstart and just buying the fancy Juniper switch times two would burn half of my seed capital. Then you didn't ask for nearly enough capital.

Re: The Making of a Router

I need a solution for everything except the last-mile customers. The customers are connected to a Zhone PON switch. From there they will arrive at our core switch as Q-in-Q vlans, one vlan per customer. I need a router that will do two full routing tables for our uplinks, a number of partial routin

[SPAM]RE: [SPAM]RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

We have many with full routing tables. Load balancing, works fine, I have one site with 8 DSL lines doing balancing across them. We typically don't use a GRE tunnel, but OpenVPN or IPSEC work great. Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition" 

RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

I too am curious... We've used them for a few months as edge devices and most (if not all) *knock on wood* of the issues we've had have been fixed by RouterOS updates, configuration changes (lots of chefs in the kitchen), or were circuit/carrier related. While I would never compare them apples

RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

They can not handle a full routing table. The load balancing doesn't work. They can not properly reassemble fragmented packets, and therefore drop all but the first "piece". They can not reliably handle traffic loads over maybe 200 Mbps, we needed 4-6 Gbps capacity. They can not hold a gre tunnel c

[SPAM]RE: [SPAM]Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

Guess I should chime in here. As far as the CCR, I know several customers running in excess of 1 gig of traffic though them, one has 16 BGP sessions, several of those are full tables, and the rest are on an peering exchange. There are other units, like the ones we supply, that does more than

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

People who tested say they don't forward more than 500Mbps per port. 2013/12/27 matt kelly > My real world experience with these is that they suck. Plain and simple. > Don't waste your time. > On Dec 27, 2013 3:49 AM, "Martin Hotze" wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > looking at the specs of Mikrotik Clo

RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

>My real world experience with these is that they suck. Plain and simple. >Don't waste your time. Would you mind elaborating what you were trying to accomplish and what failed? Thank you. Ray -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed t

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

My real world experience with these is that they suck. Plain and simple. Don't waste your time. On Dec 27, 2013 3:49 AM, "Martin Hotze" wrote: > Hi, > > looking at the specs of Mikrotik Cloud Core Routers it seems to be to good > to be true [1] having so much bang for the bucks. So virtually all

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

On 12/27/2013 05:59 AM, Martin Hotze wrote: On 27/12/2013, at 10:13 pm, Martin Hotze wrote: Thanks, estimated traffic levels are at about half a gig, but at least 50 megs of UDP (VoIP) in both directions. one thing is that I haven't found a solution for redundant power supply. Buy 2 :) on

Re: The Making of a Router

You could look into Noviflow! F. Sent from my mobile device. Apologies for any typo. > On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:05, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > > On the topic of building a software router for an ISP, has anyone tried it > using OpenFlow? The idea is to have a Linux server run BGP and a hardware > s

Re: The Making of a Router

On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > On the topic of building a software router for an ISP, has anyone tried it > using OpenFlow? The idea is to have a Linux server run BGP and a hardware > switch to move the packets. The switch would be programmed by the Linux > server using

Re: The Making of a Router

On the topic of building a software router for an ISP, has anyone tried it using OpenFlow? The idea is to have a Linux server run BGP and a hardware switch to move the packets. The switch would be programmed by the Linux server using the OpenFlow protocol. I am looking at the HP 5400 zl switches a

RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

> > On 27/12/2013, at 10:13 pm, Martin Hotze wrote: > > > > Thanks, > > > > estimated traffic levels are at about half a gig, but at least 50 megs > of UDP (VoIP) in both directions. > > > > one thing is that I haven't found a solution for redundant power supply. > > > Buy 2 :) on 3am I only want

Re: The Making of a Router

In talking about RAMBOOT I also realized the instructions are out of date on the website. The "ramboot" boot target script was updated since I created the initial page to generate the correct fstab, and enable the root account, set a hostname, etc. so you can actually use the OS until you create a

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

> On 27/12/2013, at 10:13 pm, Martin Hotze wrote: > > Thanks, > > estimated traffic levels are at about half a gig, but at least 50 megs of UDP > (VoIP) in both directions. > > one thing is that I haven't found a solution for redundant power supply. > Buy 2 :) > #m > >> -Original Messa

Re: The Making of a Router

On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 1:33 AM, wrote: > On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 11:16:53 -0800, Seth Mattinen said: >> On 12/26/13, 9:24, Andrew D Kirch wrote: >> > >> > If he can afford a 10G link... he should be buying real gear... I mean, >> > look, I've got plenty of infrastructure horror stories, but lets no

RE: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

Thanks, estimated traffic levels are at about half a gig, but at least 50 megs of UDP (VoIP) in both directions. one thing is that I haven't found a solution for redundant power supply. #m > -Original Message- > From: Geraint Jones [mailto:gera...@koding.com] > Sent: Friday, December 2

Re: Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

I am going to be deploying 4 as edge routers in the next few weeks, each will have 1 or 2 full tables plus partial IX tables. So I should have some empirical info soon. They will be doing eBGP to upstreams and iBGP/OSPF internally. I went with the 16gb RAM models. However these boxes are basic

Mikrotik Cloud Core Router and BGP real life experiences?

Hi, looking at the specs of Mikrotik Cloud Core Routers it seems to be to good to be true [1] having so much bang for the bucks. So virtually all smaller ISPs would drop their CISCO gear for Mikrotik Routerboards. We are using a handful of Mikrotik boxes, but on a much lower network level (spl