Amnon :
> An exciting announcement from the Go team this morning!
PK, that was a pretty good AFJ. You actually achieved weak level 2 on me.
Explanation of level 2 (and others) here:
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3084
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s have to think about things we would rather not think about.
Quite. And we can do it off-list.
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e from philosophical commitments
I understand and share. This makes up for the fact that in calendar
time Go would *still* not be quite seasoned enough for my taste if I
did not have confidence in their priorities.
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certain complexity of internal data-structure
management, where having GC moves from bein convenient to an essential tool
for holding dowb your defect rate.
Different jobs, different tools. Engineering is like that.
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on was the best language to prototype reposurgeon in,
but scale pressure forced the move to Go.
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e is
a target object for a many-to-one mapping that should become GCable when the
last of its source objects is GCed.
Is there a weakrefs implementation out tere that will do that?
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Everton Marques :
> See Go steadly growing over the years:
>
> https://madnight.github.io/githut/#/stars/2019/4
Wait. #4 in GitHub populaity, pasr C++ and C. amd people are *complaining*?
I've seen failure. This isn't it.
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ideal use cases for Go. Provable buffer overrun protection is
especially desirable in this kind of service, and the language
libraries undoubtedly make for a small, clean, exceptionally auditable
implementation. Good on you.
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ually looked it what it outputs?
If not, prepare to be horrified. Maintainability is an issue.
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Thomas Bushnell, BSG :
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 9:33 AM Eric S. Raymond wrote:
>
> > Thomas Bushnell, BSG :
> > > Suppose it has a way, however. Now you have Go code which will have a
> > > bounds fault instead of a data leak. That's better, I suppose -
Jesper Louis Andersen :
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 7:07 PM Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> > I agree. The class of old C program I am interested in is, however,
> > not generally limited by CPU but by network and (less commonly) disk
> > stalls. Again bear in mind that my type exa
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is is an improvement, but a packet-of-death across a widely
> used library this puts the world in a not dissimilar position in terms of
> the level of panic and rapid response everybody needs.
The difference is trhat an overt bug will elicit a fast fix.
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Nigel Tao :
> Spun out of the "C++ 11 to Golang convertor" thread...
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 12:27 AM Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> > Perry and I have two different target languages in mind. Perry's
> > target language is basically a repaired C - type-saf
C11
http://gallium.inria.fr/~fpottier/publis/jourdan-fpottier-2016.pdf
Perry is adopting their parsing strategy for his codewalker.
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ble names in some contexts. And there exists a good
strategy for resolving those.
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another
use case for sum types that I think is significant - enabling compile-time
checking for limited polymorphism in an array of events.
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Pleas
's not like we need to buy a cyclotron or anything but we do need to
be able to eat and pay rent for a couple years each.)
It would sure help if Go had sum types. Has there been any discussion
of adding these?
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Ian Lance Taylor :
> To be honest, the second step, making the compiler (and linker)
> idiomatic Go, is still in progress.
I'm not even a bit surprised to hear that. :-)
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ctory when I can lift the NTPsec codebase out of C with
this thing.
But this is just a plan in my head right now. I won't have time to do it
until I can leave NTPsec in a stable, reasonably finished state. And then
I'lll have to scare up funding.
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scales. Someone other than me will have to be able to
maintain this code someday.
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I'm unavoidably
going to do a lot of allocations when deserializing the repisitory into its
in-memory attributed-graph form, but after that I really want to keep heap
churn to the bare mimimum required by the surgical operations.
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M
Axel Wagner :
> So, how many such loops are there?
In my code? 82, for a first approximation. there might be some I'm missing.
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Please
ssume I don't have ideas about error handling and cleanup
just bceause you haven't seen them yet. They's be in a complete RFE.
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Pleas
programming at scale.
These might be the same issue, actually.
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channel idiom, too - slowness due to channel
scheduler overhead. Can be pretty bad - I've verified this by
benchmarking.
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th respect to channels.)
The detail in which the devil lurks is how the closure returns a stop value.
There are a couple of different ways this could work; I'll write an RFE
once I figure out which is the Right Thing.
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My
cted of type parameters across a wide range of
> possible operations).
I don't understand the the grounds of this objection. Can you pose some cases
you think implements couldn't cover?
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Ian Denhardt :
> Quoting Eric S. Raymond (2018-10-19 16:15:25)
> > Ian Denhardt :
> > > What would code making use of a `Sortable` type look like? If you can't
> > > actually use "implements <" to overload `<`, it's not clear to me what
>
Ian Denhardt :
> Quoting Eric S. Raymond (2018-10-19 16:03:02)
>
> > Both classes want to be selected by a field "name". It's annoying that
> > I can't declare an interface that says "has a field 'name'" and instead
> > have
sliding
> > around that restriction.
>
> I think you are talking about https://golang.org/issue/23796 (which
> was not accepted).
Thank you, Ian, that explanation is very clarifying.
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is appreciated.
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won't complain.
I'm saying I'd prefer that future to heavyweight contracts. Surface
overloading is *not* the important thing about "implements"; having a
lightweight way to refer to typeclasses like "Sortable" is.
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liding
around that restriction.
But precisely because this could easily be patched into interfaces,
I think it's not much of an argument for your plan.
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It's happened to me, too. I have developed enough humility to actually
value people who can jolt me hard enough to notice how I'm stuck.
Perhaps you should consider cultivating more of that yourself.
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&qu
nd lattice algebra and want to be able to express
partial (not just total) ordering.
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e,* and the syntax
is trivial. That's not just parsimony on the surface, it's a
fundamental clue that we have found the simplest way possible to
express what it gives us access to.
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Andy Balholm :
> I don’t think that generic functions should have access to private
> fields of their type parameters, regardless of what package they are
> in.
Agreed. Turns me off this proposal somewhat.
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ord.
Also I think the granularity of "like this operator" is more appropriate than
the granularity of "like this type". That said, I like Burak's design better
than anything I've seen yet *except* "implements".
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about how to fix that. I'll post it once the
dust around generics settles a little.
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ng "implements []".
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to consider yanking function doc
> strings from the body and outputting them as comments above the func line.
See, now, that's a perfect candidate for inclusion in the rule swarm.
Almost always correct. Does strictly bounded, easily-undone harm in the
rare cases where it isn't.
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like Go fine but Python
still has an edge for small rapid-prototyping jobs like this one. It's
not like reposurgeon, the datasets won't ever become large enough for
compiled-language performance to be really needful.
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ths of abyssal madness. I'm really glad I never summoned
up the nerve to mount the thing.
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RCAL
user's manual. It seemed appropriate.
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alanfo :
> Any comments or constructive criticism are of course welcome.
I applaud this step in the direction of simplicity.
I've left a more specific comment on the issue.
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ite min() and max() as generics.
Yes, I would prefer this 90% to the elaborate, fragile schemes for
user-defined contracts that are under discussion.
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ight insight
yet.
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f my Python CI setup.
But that's OK as I don't expect those tests to be relevant much longer.
Translation 19% complete.
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:1.10.4-alpine3.8 and
> golang:1.11-alpine3.8 base images work fine.
Yeah, I can believe that. The Docker environment at Gitlab ciuld well
be running 1.9 or olver; I don't have a quick way to check.
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y Python translation is finished I may present it here.
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is rant, and maybe
I still shouldn't, but...now I think it must be said in order to
underline the general point. Those of you advocating generics by
contract, in particular, need to think hard about what they would do
to compactness.
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*not* among them; in fact my draft calls out operator
overloading
as a feature best left behind.
I judge Go's mimnimalism is the right thing here.
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