On 11/28/2014 02:03 PM, Paige Thompson wrote:
> Sorry I wish Thunderbird would start my cursor at the bottom of the
> e-mail like its supposed to and I forget sometimes.
>
>
Edit -> Account Settings -> Composition and Addressing
Check the thing to quote replies, and select "start my reply below
On Friday 28 Nov 2014 19:03:45 Paige Thompson wrote:
> On 11/28/14 01:13, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Paige Thompson
wrote:
> >> I think im just going to go to sleep. I really don't care if they drop
> >> support for it I'll just make my own ebuild / systemd em
On 11/28/14 01:13, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Paige Thompson wrote:
>> I think im just going to go to sleep. I really don't care if they drop
>> support for it I'll just make my own ebuild / systemd emulation for
>> whatever I need in spite of it, fork it and ca
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Paige Thompson wrote:
> I think im just going to go to sleep. I really don't care if they drop
> support for it I'll just make my own ebuild / systemd emulation for
> whatever I need in spite of it, fork it and call it "you can have it
> when you pry it from my col
I think im just going to go to sleep. I really don't care if they drop
support for it I'll just make my own ebuild / systemd emulation for
whatever I need in spite of it, fork it and call it "you can have it
when you pry it from my cold dead hands linux."
good night
-Paige
On 11/27/14 22:56, Pai
so we pretty much established that dropping openrc isn't in the plans
for gentoo right? Probably gonna be an option like bootloaders right?
On 11/27/14 21:46, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Marc Stürmer wrote:
>> Am 27.11.2014 um 16:22 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
>
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Marc Stürmer wrote:
> Am 27.11.2014 um 16:22 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
>
>> And Sabayon uses systemd, of course.
>
> Holy moly... never noticed that this happened.
Sabayon started rolling systemd in April 15, 2013[1]. By Sabayon
14.01, it was the default init[2
Am 27.11.2014 um 16:22 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
And Sabayon uses systemd, of course.
Holy moly... never noticed that this happened.
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Marc Stuermer wrote:
> Am 27.11.2014 um 12:00 schrieb Tom H:
>
>> I wouldn't bet to much on that. One of the most vocal anti-systemd
>> Debian users tried either Gento or Funtoo and reported that
>> installation and maintenance were difficult. Binary distros do mak
Am 27.11.2014 um 15:21 schrieb Tom H:
> Lennart made some design choices that I wish that he hadn't made but
> I'm not losing any sleep over this; and I don't understand why anyone
> else should.
Three frequently brought up issues:
1. Lennart Poettering does not exactly have a track record of ma
Am 27.11.2014 um 12:00 schrieb Tom H:
> I wouldn't bet to much on that. One of the most vocal anti-systemd
> Debian users tried either Gento or Funtoo and reported that
> installation and maintenance were difficult. Binary distros do make
> things rather easier, especially if you start to play wit
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 11:53 PM, Gevisz wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:05:16 + Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:25:22 +0200, Gevisz wrote:
>>>
>>> I switched from Ubuntu 10.04 to Gentoo just because it forced closing
>>> window button "x" to the upper-left corner of the window
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 3:23 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
>>
>> Also, I'll wager it likely won't be implemented in such a way as to be
>> perceived by its user base as being shoved down their throats.
>
> Clarification - this reference was actually to the way Deb
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 1:07 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>
>> So, don't be surprised if FreeBSD develops something *really* similar
>> (along the lines of the second bullet) to systemd in the future
>
> Doesn't matter because:
>
> a) it won't be syste
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Philip Webb wrote:
>
> Adoption of Systemd by other major distros sb good for Gentoo.
> Disgruntled Debians, Fedoras, Archies (IIRC they've also adopted it)
> will have a choice of giving in or moving to Slackware or Gentoo.
> Many of them may decide the moderate
Am 26.11.2014 um 21:39 schrieb Walter Dnes:
I've been running ICEWM for over 4 years, and blackbox for a few years
before that. What desktop interface change? :)
Switching to ratpoison or i3wm, of course. :>
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 10:39:17AM +0200, Gevisz wrote
>
> Moreover, if I had to maintain computers for *other* users, I would not
> mind to upgrade their binary distributions every 2 or, better, every 5 years
> even if *their* working environment would every time change from Gnome2
> to Unity and
On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:06:23 +, thegeezer wrote:
> > * stable releases with a more or less stable and predictable release
> > cycle,
>
> debatable - i would suggest "better tested" than stable otherwise there
> would be no need for debian bugzilla
The vagaries of English strike again! When
On 24/11/14 19:13, Marc Stürmer wrote:
> Am 24.11.2014 um 19:25 schrieb Gevisz:
>
>> I switched from Ubuntu 10.04 to Gentoo just because it forced closing
>> window button "x" to the upper-left corner of the window in Unity of
>> Ubuntu 12.04 while I used to look for it in the upper-right corner. :
On 25/11/14 23:35, Emanuele Rusconi wrote:
> On 25 November 2014 at 23:42, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> The point was that it could be changed. […]
>>
>> […] It's about as on-topic and relevant as WinXP.
> No, the point was that sometimes even a small annoyance is plenty
> enough to drive people away.
On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:45:31 +0100 Marc Stürmer wrote:
> Am 25.11.2014 um 18:44 schrieb Gevisz:
>
> > It usually took me from 10 to 20 minutes to download my daily updates
> > in Ubuntu. For big packages - about 40 minutes or even more.
> >
> >> That's the time saving aspect
> >
> > lol :)
>
>
Am 25.11.2014 um 18:44 schrieb Gevisz:
It usually took me from 10 to 20 minutes to download my daily updates
in Ubuntu. For big packages - about 40 minutes or even more.
That's the time saving aspect
lol :)
Not "lol", it is like I told you. Binary distributions are a big, big
time saver c
On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:56:58 + Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:35:18 +0100, Emanuele Rusconi wrote:
>
> > > The point was that it could be changed. […]
> > >
> > > […] It's about as on-topic and relevant as WinXP.
> >
> > No, the point was that sometimes even a small annoyan
On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:35:18 +0100 Emanuele Rusconi wrote:
> On 25 November 2014 at 23:42, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >
> > The point was that it could be changed. […]
> >
> > […] It's about as on-topic and relevant as WinXP.
>
> No, the point was that sometimes even a small annoyance is plenty
> e
On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:35:18 +0100, Emanuele Rusconi wrote:
> > The point was that it could be changed. […]
> >
> > […] It's about as on-topic and relevant as WinXP.
>
> No, the point was that sometimes even a small annoyance is plenty
> enough to drive people away.
Well, if you put it like th
On 25 November 2014 at 23:42, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>
> The point was that it could be changed. […]
>
> […] It's about as on-topic and relevant as WinXP.
No, the point was that sometimes even a small annoyance is plenty
enough to drive people away.
The point was that when you feel that the distro
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:24:34 +0200, Gevisz wrote:
> > > Can you, please, help me? :)
> >
> > I did, I told you about UbuntuTweak, but here's a link
> > http://bit.ly/1rpmTbK
>
> Yes, but this simply does not work.
OK, so it doesn't work.
The point was that it could be changed. I neither re
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:49:53 + Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:55:07 +0200, Gevisz wrote:
>
> > > > Please, give me the link. I will check if it is correct on my old
> > > > Ubuntu 12.04 partition (yes, I still have it) and report the result
> > > > here.
> > >
> > > Why not G
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:56:05 +0200 Alan McKinnon
wrote:
> On 25/11/2014 19:03, Gevisz wrote:
> > On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 11:45:50 +0200 Alan McKinnon
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 25/11/2014 09:15, Gevisz wrote:
> I even can agree with them that a new place of that button was
> > logical, ergon
On 25/11/2014 19:03, Gevisz wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 11:45:50 +0200 Alan McKinnon
> wrote:
>
>> On 25/11/2014 09:15, Gevisz wrote:
I even can agree with them that a new place of that button was
> logical, ergonomic and saved screen space.
>>> Only now, I have realized that, logicall
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:55:07 +0200, Gevisz wrote:
> > > Please, give me the link. I will check if it is correct on my old
> > > Ubuntu 12.04 partition (yes, I still have it) and report the result
> > > here.
> >
> > Why not Google it yourself?
>
> Because it is very hard to google a link if it d
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 11:21:06 -0700 Maxim Wexler wrote:
> >
> > No. It is not possible in Unity or, at least, it was not possible
> > in Unity at the time when Ubuntu 12.04 was released. They really
> > *forced* their users to accept the new place of the closing window
> > frame button and have ar
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:37:48 + Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:09:08 +0200, Gevisz wrote:
> I do recall that one way of doing it is with UbuntuTweak.
Unity-tweak-tool cant move window buttons to the right in 14.04
as of September 3, 2014:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sou
>
> No. It is not possible in Unity or, at least, it was not possible
> in Unity at the time when Ubuntu 12.04 was released. They really
> *forced* their users to accept the new place of the closing window
> frame button and have argued that it is more ergonomic.
>
> There was not any possibility t
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 17:37:48 + Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:09:08 +0200, Gevisz wrote:
>
> > > It was possible, Google has hits on this dated from shortly after the
> > > time Unity was released.
> >
> > Please, give me the link. I will check if it is correct on my old
>
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:13:53 +0100 Marc Stürmer wrote:
> Am 24.11.2014 um 19:25 schrieb Gevisz:
>
> > I switched from Ubuntu 10.04 to Gentoo just because it forced closing
> > window button "x" to the upper-left corner of the window in Unity of
> > Ubuntu 12.04 while I used to look for it in the
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:09:08 +0200, Gevisz wrote:
> > It was possible, Google has hits on this dated from shortly after the
> > time Unity was released.
>
> Please, give me the link. I will check if it is correct on my old
> Ubuntu 12.04 partition (yes, I still have it) and report the result
>
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:41:10 + Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 06:53:14 +0200, Gevisz wrote:
>
> > > Wouldn't it have been easier to use the simple configuration option to
> > > move the button back to where you expected it? Far less effort than
> > > switching distros.
> >
> >
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 11:45:50 +0200 Alan McKinnon
wrote:
> On 25/11/2014 09:15, Gevisz wrote:
> >> I even can agree with them that a new place of that button was
> >> > logical, ergonomic and saved screen space.
> > Only now, I have realized that, logically, it was possible
> > to rearrange all t
On Tuesday 25 November 2014 11:45:50 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 25/11/2014 09:15, Gevisz wrote:
> >> I even can agree with them that a new place of that button was
> >>
> >> > logical, ergonomic and saved screen space.
> >
> > Only now, I have realized that, logically, it was possible
> > to rearr
On 25/11/2014 09:15, Gevisz wrote:
>> I even can agree with them that a new place of that button was
>> > logical, ergonomic and saved screen space.
> Only now, I have realized that, logically, it was possible
> to rearrange all the elements of Unity in such a way that
> it was logical, ergonomic,
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 06:53:14 +0200, Gevisz wrote:
> > Wouldn't it have been easier to use the simple configuration option to
> > move the button back to where you expected it? Far less effort than
> > switching distros.
>
> No. It is not possible in Unity or, at least, it was not possible
> in
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 06:53:14 +0200 Gevisz wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:05:16 + Neil Bothwick wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:25:22 +0200, Gevisz wrote:
> >
> > > I switched from Ubuntu 10.04 to Gentoo just because it forced closing
> > > window button "x" to the upper-left corner of
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:05:16 + Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:25:22 +0200, Gevisz wrote:
>
> > I switched from Ubuntu 10.04 to Gentoo just because it forced closing
> > window button "x" to the upper-left corner of the window in Unity of
> > Ubuntu 12.04 while I used to look f
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:25:22 +0200, Gevisz wrote:
> I switched from Ubuntu 10.04 to Gentoo just because it forced closing
> window button "x" to the upper-left corner of the window in Unity of
> Ubuntu 12.04 while I used to look for it in the upper-right corner. :)
Wouldn't it have been easier to
Am 24.11.2014 um 19:25 schrieb Gevisz:
I switched from Ubuntu 10.04 to Gentoo just because it forced closing
window button "x" to the upper-left corner of the window in Unity of
Ubuntu 12.04 while I used to look for it in the upper-right corner. :)
So, I see no reason that those that hate syste
On 24 November 2014 at 18:54, Marc Stürmer wrote:
>
> I don't think so, that many people are going to switch to Gentoo just
> because of Systemd, because of the differences between Gentoo and e.g.
> Debian.
I did. From Debian. Not because I hate systemd (NOW I'm in the "anti"
camp, but I switche
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 18:54:26 +0100 Marc Stürmer wrote:
> Am 21.11.2014 um 18:36 schrieb Philip Webb:
>
> > Adoption of Systemd by other major distros sb good for Gentoo.
> > Disgruntled Debians, Fedoras, Archies (IIRC they've also adopted it)
> > will have a choice of giving in or moving to Slac
Am 21.11.2014 um 18:36 schrieb Philip Webb:
Adoption of Systemd by other major distros sb good for Gentoo.
Disgruntled Debians, Fedoras, Archies (IIRC they've also adopted it)
will have a choice of giving in or moving to Slackware or Gentoo.
Well, Gentoo is for sure quite a different beast com
Regardless, it would probably be useful to contact the people from the
Debian project who were interested in forking it. It's likely Gentoo would
end up using a fair amount of their work at some point.
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 6:18 AM, Sid S wrote:
> The reason this question is so hard to answer
The reason this question is so hard to answer is because it is not a
technical question, it is a moral and ethical one. The links presented
start to approach the issue being discussed in this light but do not
entirely accept the right question. I suspect this is because it seems
rather absurd.
We
On 11/23/2014 3:34 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
>> On 11/23/2014 1:07 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>> So, don't be surprised if FreeBSD develops something *really* similar
>>> (along the lines of the second bullet) to systemd in the future
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 1:07 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> So, don't be surprised if FreeBSD develops something *really* similar
>> (along the lines of the second bullet) to systemd in the future
>
> Doesn't matter because:
>
> a) it won't be systemd
On 11/23/2014 3:23 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> Also, I'll wager it likely won't be implemented in such a way as to be
> perceived by its user base as being shoved down their throats.
Clarification - this reference was actually to the way Debian is
handling it, not Gentoo - I have no problems whatsoeve
On 11/23/2014 1:07 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> So, don't be surprised if FreeBSD develops something *really* similar
> (along the lines of the second bullet) to systemd in the future
Doesn't matter because:
a) it won't be systemd
(with all of its warts)
b) it won't be written by Lennart an
On 11/23/2014 2:02 PM, Marc Joliet wrote:
> I get the distinct feeling that you two should probably read the LWN article
> again.
No need...
This:
"In the end, it comes down to this: it just is not that important. It is
just a system initialization utility."
simply proves that the author eithe
Am Sun, 23 Nov 2014 12:07:08 -0600
schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés :
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
[...]
> > To answer the OPs question correctly...
> >
> > Since OpenRC is the *default* - for now at least - it is *king*, and
> > systemd is the red-headed step-child, and as suc
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 11/21/2014 2:32 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> As long as there are developers willing and able to support OpenRC in
>> Gentoo (and it looks like there are), that will be the case. To make
>> sure that this remains to be true, help them.
On 11/21/2014 2:32 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> As long as there are developers willing and able to support OpenRC in
> Gentoo (and it looks like there are), that will be the case. To make
> sure that this remains to be true, help them.
This is really an incorrect (and even borderline arrogan
Am Fri, 21 Nov 2014 01:32:16 -0600
schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés :
[...]
> I highly recommend the article John Corbet wrote for LWN a week ago:
>
> http://lwn.net/Articles/619992/
[...]
Thanks for the link, it was a good read.
FWIW, I found this linked in one of the comments:
http://uselessd
On 11/21/14 18:20, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 12:39 PM, wrote:
>> Regardless, the smaller, cheaper embedded linux crowd is very unlikely to
>> ever embrace systemd. Why? Glad you asks. Thousands of reasons, but,
>> here are a few: It is very common in embedded (anything) to ru
On 11/21/14 17:39, wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote:
> On 11/21/14 07:00, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 2:32 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés
>> wrote:
>>> It's actually a great thing for a lot of use cases. But it doesn't
>>> seem that Gentoo will change defaults soon, although systemd wor
On 11/21/14 07:32, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 1:17 AM, Paige Thompson wrote:
>> I just read an article that says systemd is taking over linux and linux
>> is not linux anymore:
>> http://blog.lusis.org/blog/2014/11/20/systemd-redux/
> I highly recommend the article John
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 12:39 PM, wrote:
>
> Regardless, the smaller, cheaper embedded linux crowd is very unlikely to
> ever embrace systemd. Why? Glad you asks. Thousands of reasons, but,
> here are a few: It is very common in embedded (anything) to run multiple
> and often different rtos (rea
On 11/21/14 07:31, Marc Stürmer wrote:
> Am 21.11.2014 um 08:17 schrieb Paige Thompson:
>
>> I just read an article that says systemd is taking over linux and linux
>> is not linux anymore:
>> http://blog.lusis.org/blog/2014/11/20/systemd-redux/
>>
>> I kinda have to agree which is partially why I'
141121 Rich Freeman wrote:
> My personal sense is that in the medium-term we may end up
> moving to not having any default at all,
> just as with bootloaders, kernels, syslog, crontab, mail etc.
> That is pretty-much the Gentoo way everywhere else when there are options.
> As you already pointed ou
On 11/21/14 07:00, Rich Freeman wrote:
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 2:32 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
It's actually a great thing for a lot of use cases. But it doesn't
seem that Gentoo will change defaults soon, although systemd works
great with it.
My (personal) sense is that in the medium-te
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 2:32 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> It's actually a great thing for a lot of use cases. But it doesn't
> seem that Gentoo will change defaults soon, although systemd works
> great with it.
>
My (personal) sense is that in the medium-term we may end up moving to
not havin
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 1:17 AM, Paige Thompson wrote:
> I just read an article that says systemd is taking over linux and linux
> is not linux anymore:
> http://blog.lusis.org/blog/2014/11/20/systemd-redux/
I highly recommend the article John Corbet wrote for LWN a week ago:
http://lwn.net/Arti
Am 21.11.2014 um 08:17 schrieb Paige Thompson:
I just read an article that says systemd is taking over linux and linux
is not linux anymore:
http://blog.lusis.org/blog/2014/11/20/systemd-redux/
I kinda have to agree which is partially why I'm not using it. Will
Gentoo have any plans of forcing
I just read an article that says systemd is taking over linux and linux
is not linux anymore:
http://blog.lusis.org/blog/2014/11/20/systemd-redux/
I kinda have to agree which is partially why I'm not using it. Will
Gentoo have any plans of forcing its users to move to systemd or will I
always (suc
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