On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:13:53 +0100 Marc Stürmer <m...@marc-stuermer.de> wrote:
> Am 24.11.2014 um 19:25 schrieb Gevisz: > > > I switched from Ubuntu 10.04 to Gentoo just because it forced closing > > window button "x" to the upper-left corner of the window in Unity of > > Ubuntu 12.04 while I used to look for it in the upper-right corner. :) > > > > So, I see no reason that those that hate systemd would not do the same. > > I also did for my own server. > > But the real strength and home of Debian on a server is in the corporate > environment, and in a CE you are facing other challenges, namely: > > * long term support (meaning for a few years), Yes, I do agree with you. Long term support is indeed a challenge, especially when it ends and you have to update to the new release. > * stable releases with a more or less stable and predictable release cycle, Yes, predictable release cycle with unpredictable changes from one release to the other is also a challenge. Especially when your video card stops working after the upgrade. For example from Ubuntu 6.04 to Ubunto 8.04. > * steady stream of security updates as long as the release is being > supported. Yes, updates come almost every day and their downloading and installing takes almost the same time as daily upgrade of Gentoo. (Except for compiling a new Firefox, of course. But now, this problem in Gentoo is solved by freezing the version of this browser: 24.8.0 in stable Gentoo tree vs 33.0 in Ubunto 12.04. :) > > > ... the downloading all that crap also takes a lot of time. > > Downloading binaries takes of course some time, yes. But downloading > e.g. the source code of Chromium compared to the binary of Chromium does > take a multiply longer. And after the download of the binary you just > need to unpack it and are ready to run it, on Gentoo you need to compile > it. > > So binaries are by every mean faster to download and run than > downloading the source, compiling it and then running it on a server. It depends on your connection speed. > Even downloading the biggest archives and installing (without > configuration) is normally done in under one minute. It usually took me from 10 to 20 minutes to download my daily updates in Ubuntu. For big packages - about 40 minutes or even more. > That's the time saving aspect lol :) > Of course you got another can of worms that may be bug you instead. My English is not so good to understand idioms but I guess that here we agree. :) > And if you don't like the example of Chromium, then take MySQL e.g. > instead. > > People in a CE rarely have the time to deal with the added complicity of > Gentoo compared to binary based distributions, and therefore Gentoo just > don't fit for most of them. If CE stands for Commercial Environment, I can agree. > The thing is: compiling your own binaries on a production server is > something many people won't like, because it takes power from the other > processes away for that time. Agree. > And having a fully fledged C/C++ compiler running on your server is a > security hole, if you are paranoid enough. Never thought about it, but may be you are right. > Of course you could setup just a compiling server for all of your > other servers, but this takes time and adds complexity. Agree. > > Steady "release cycle" is also not so good. > > It depends on your case. Here I also can agree. > All the major BSDs, FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD, have had a steady > release cycle - a new release every half year - for almost two decades > now and they are content with that. Probably they do not change API (or reposition window control buttons :) every 6 months.
