Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-19 Thread Prof David West
I agree with glen that inter-individual interactions/observations will not get to where Nick seems to want to go. Because that was the stated starting point of the thread, I went along, to see if i was wrong. Nick: *"For me; the heartland of self-consciousness would be an awareness on the part

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-19 Thread steve smith
Dave - I do have lots of stories about self-awareness in a variety of contexts. All of them lead to the conclusion that, "I" am NOT /"one of those that others are." (obviously there is some marginal overlap)/ Of course this is based entirely on what 'others' are willing/able to publicly revea

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-19 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Hi, everybody. We are veering into meta again. Ugh. Where Nick is trying to get is a method for him and David and Jochen to converse productively about consciousness. A productive conversation, for Nick, is one that produces agreement, at least agreement on the terms of disagreement. Anecdotes

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-19 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Oh, and ... I think you guys are quibbling. There is way to say two objects are different, without first asserting that they are in some respect the same. Time to send a deligation to take a way my keyboard? Nick On Fri, Jul 19, 2024 at 12:14 PM steve smith wrote: > Dave - > > I do have lot

[FRIAM] How democracies die

2024-07-19 Thread Jochen Fromm
I am reading "How democracies die" from Daniel Ziblatt and Steven Levitsky who warn that modern democracies die slowly and from the inside. They particularly warn about Trump and argue that political parties in the US play an essential role in the defense of democracy, because they have a gateke

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-19 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Thanks, Dave, I tried to set two ground rules, here: One is simply that we try to find ways to a common understanding. I recognize that the best way to get there might be to go into battle together, or drink a lot whiskey together, or drop acid together, but my puritan upbringing forbids tho

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-19 Thread Frank Wimberly
--- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Fri, Jul 19, 2024, 3:36 PM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > Thanks, Dave, > I tried to set two ground rules, here: One is simply that we try to find > ways to a common understanding. I recognize that the

Re: [FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

2024-07-19 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Hi David, My ears are still ringing with this: *When we do eventually turn to "self- " I have many anecdotes, but fear they will be deemed "irrelevant" or "metaphysical" or idiosyncratic (Holy Self???) and excluded; making consensus of any kind impossible.* Every experience references a place-fr

Re: [FRIAM] How democracies die

2024-07-19 Thread Jochen Fromm
"Eight years, two impeachments, four indictments, 34 felony convictions, and one attempted coup later, the GOP is now fully 100% Trump’s party, and that speaks less to Trump’s strength, and much more to Republican fear and cowardice"https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-republican-takeover