Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Herman Wouk’s brother Victor is credited with being the inventor of the hybrid car. He interviewed me for Caltech when I was a senior in high school. Ed Ed Angel Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab) Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, U

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

I don't know, man. I'm an antisocial person. But I seem to meet a lot of people who truly *enjoy* being in and playing on teams. Teams are, by definition, algorithmic, some more, some less. The same could be said about going to arena sized concerts, or chanting silly things at protests or ra

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Glen writes: "But I seem to meet a lot of people who truly *enjoy* being in and playing on teams." https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/12/people-adopt-made-up-social-rules-to-be-part-of-a-group/ Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Gr

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Nick wrote: "Computers are the conscripted sailors of our generation." I would say that "computer users are the conscripted sailors. Computers, computing, software: all are algorithmic, creating an "algorithmic context" (Navy) within which human users (Sailors) are constrained to act. Like hu

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Marcus, Interesting article. Referenced within it is a long Wikipedia article on self-categorization theory , which is, by the way, just a stunning example of abduction. Eric take note. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Eme

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Heh, all of this begs for a definition of "algorithmic". I sincerely doubt Nick was using it in the sense of a fully definite process that is guaranteed to halt. So, there's something else, there, something significantly *softer* ... more vague ... ill-defined. It's almost as if Nick (or Wouk

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Glen claims "antisocial" and I think Dave has mentioned his own "tendency to withdraw from society" (my paraphrase, I welcome correction or elaboration.    I hypothosize that *many* who are significantly engaged in online discussion/community may well fit one of the myriad positions on (and nea

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

*"any military must operate on algorithms" *(Nick) Not really true. and there is a huge spectrum of "algorithm-ness" as a function of military branch, activity, rank, etc. A navy vessel is a machine and operates on algorithms. Humans within that machine must be constrained to be as machine-like

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

As usual, embedded in your story lies our group identity which we might call "applied complexity". Well done! On 1/15/19 9:29 AM, Steven A Smith wrote: > Glen claims "antisocial" and I think Dave has mentioned his own "tendency to > withdraw from society" (my paraphrase, I welcome correction or

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Nick - Attempting to respond to the "algorithmic" subtopic: I have felt from an early age (before I knew the term algorithm) that the socio-political-religious-economic systems we all operate within are algorithmic.   I am prone to define "fascism" as any such systems which go over some magic

Re: [FRIAM] models, reality, etc.

Dave asked how valid it was to claim "every experiencer's behavior will be grounded on the interpretations, not the 'raw data'." I think the answer has to be: Centuries of effort to try to nail that down how we "interpret" "raw data" can only be resolved by recognizing that whatever we mean by "ra

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Glen, I would definitely agree that we are being pretty loose with our notion of algorithmic. But, keeping to the spirit of the discussion so far in that regard: I would agree that teams, while practicing, are "by definition, algorithmic. But, I would contend that while playing, they are not —

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

I witness otherwise intelligent people act that way when they don’t need to. I’d like to think that if enough people smacked them in the head they would stop it. From: Friam on behalf of Nick Thompson Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Date: Tuesday, January 15, 2

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Steve, I too would prefer the term asocial rather than anti. However, I have, on occasion, been a 'domestic terrorist' which is pretty anti-social. I can really enjoy being part of a team — for a couple of decades I played basketball 3+ hours a day, 7 days a week. I was, what they called it at the

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

So, while reading the wikipedia article, an old saw of mine re-emerges. They talk about these sorts of things as "fluid" or context dependent. Yet they never (given my dilettante attention) talk about transients, transition times, half-life, periodicity, etc. How long does it take to self-ste

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Glen writes: < It's truly a breath of fresh air when I run across someone else who is willing to swap roles several times through a single conversation. > Why do there have to be roles and not just topics? Marcus FRIAM Applied Co

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Good question. An individual discussing a topic implies a deep, historical, perspective on the part of the discussant. When I engage individuals (with deep structure and historicity), I have a lot of work to do to carry on a healthy conversation. Such work is exhausting. Even a *social* pers

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Steve, That’s a great story. I find more and I need to know more about people’s biographies if I am to remember their points of view. So this is very helpful. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nick

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

David, Is there such a thing as a fuzzy algorithm? I would think that was a contradiction in terms. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthom

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

If you were really antisocial, you wouldn't care how you seem. It seems to me this is more a tactic for executing conversations rather than a necessity. One could merely inhibit the self in various ways topic by topic. As for alcohol, it actually becomes easier for me to do this, as my inn

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

There are definitely fuzzy algorithms, just as there is fuzzy logic. Our CS colleagues could better explain. davew On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, at 11:53 AM, Nick Thompson wrote: > David, > > Is there such a thing as a fuzzy algorithm? I would think that was a > contradiction in terms.> > N

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Cf, Games People Play . Another blast from the past. I think what Glen identifies here may be “pastimes ” which are relatively innocent versions of games. Unfortunately, Berne

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Hm. Maybe you're right. Maybe I've been *told* I'm anti-social and simply been a victim of those over-socialized people who don't show much depth in social contexts. Regardless, the topical question I raised still stands: For those poor sailors who *feel* demeaned by the algorithmic context,

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Marcus, Would you be happier if we called them "attractors". Surely you, stalwart individualist that you are, would agree that there is something out there that "attracts you" to certain lines of behavior in social situations? Or perhaps not? Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor o

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

I appreciate the introduction of "roles" and "topics" and "attractors" here.    I would say that *I* experience all three slightly differently: Roles:  This subdivides into (roughly?) 3 modes 1. Roles I was born/raised into...  Son, brother, classmate, boyfriend, husband, father.   These wer

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Funny, I was going to mention this (the hybrid car, not the interview) as well. Jonathan Wouk is Victor’s son, and was in my class at Harvard (1965). We were both active in the Harvard Outing Club (hiking, spelunking in NY, Virginia and W. Virginia, climbing in the Presidential Range in NH on

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

S. I like the taxonomy. What do you suppose would be the chi-squared probability of your occupying the various cells. For me, I find that I avoid playing “Expert” in the topic of “evolution of communication” because the expectations are high and I always disappoint them. Best to play Expe

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

That's an interesting idea. I don't think that's what I'm describing, though. I'm simply describing my coping strategy for coerced social interaction, mostly with strangers. If I meet the same person more than 2 or 3 times, a real relationship develops and I don't play the roles anymore. On

[FRIAM] Foundationalism and the Peircean Cycle of Inquiry

Jon, Thanks for loaning me "Logicomix " I am embarrassed to admit how useful I found it. It made plain some things which have been hazy to me for years. One such lesson is how effing nuts "foun

[FRIAM] Fwd: [WedTech] Wedtech Lunch Talk

Some of us who might be interested in this are not on the wedtech list. Should be a good talk, giving an overview of the impressive tech involved in the next version of SimTable. Come on by! -- Owen -- Forwarded message - From: jos...@stigmergic.net Date: Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

Barry - Fascinating anecdote!... pretty studly, canoeing (open canoe?) in that country anytime of year.   I don't think "normal" kids do that kind of stuff anymore! - Steve On 1/15/19 2:07 PM, Barry MacKichan wrote: Funny, I was going to mention this (the hybrid car, not the interview) as w

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

N I think it would be more appropriate to apply a fuzzy set membership, though probability works as well.  The semantics are different even if the maths are the same. S On 1/15/19 3:22 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: S. I like the taxonomy.  What do you suppose would be the chi-squared probabil