Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy (lost in the weeks?)

*"What about counting backwards from100 by 7's: 100, 93, 86, ... How do you describe those sorts of activities in your terms?"* I describe it just like that. "Counting backwards from 100 by 7's." To confirm this, I asked my daughter to do that, and she did. Her mouth opened and closed, her throat

Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy (lost in the weeks?)

I meant counting silently and without and discernable physical motion. Same things for visualizing. On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 9:26 AM Eric Charles wrote: > *"What about counting backwards from100 by 7's: 100, 93, 86, ... How do > you describe those sorts of activities in your terms?"* > > I descri

Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy (lost in the weeks?)

*"I meant counting silently"* Whatever the relationship is between counting very loudly and counting in a whisper, I would posit the same as the relationship between counting in a whisper and counting with no discernible physical motion. Instructing a child in how to "count in your head" is a proc

Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy (lost in the weeks?)

Russ, In 1967 I took a course in cognitive processes at Carnegie Mellon. One aspect of that course could be called “what’s wrong with behaviorism?” At one point it was said, “When behaviorists talk about ‘sub-vocal speech’ you have won the argument.” The “hard problem” is hard. Nic

Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy (lost in the weeks?)

Hi, Russ and Eric, I am wondering if one count silently any more than one can clap one-handedly. Thus, the problem might arise from the tortured grammar of the question, not from any question of fact. Alternatively, perhaps we might appeal to some sort of limit notion Just as we s

Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy (lost in the weeks?)

Frank, Will you look at my last post to russ and comment (on line, if possible) on the plausibility of my mathematical interpretation? Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University

Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy (lost in the weeks?)

I don't think the mathematical analogy is relevant. It doesn't seem to me to apply to remembering a face. Nick said about someone doing arithmetic silently: Her face goes blank, for a few seconds, and then she gives us an answer. What we have is the question, the answer, and the moment of blankne

Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy (lost in the weeks?)

P.S. Frank, Thanks for the support. On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 11:48 AM Russ Abbott wrote: > I don't think the mathematical analogy is relevant. It doesn't seem to me > to apply to remembering a face. > > Nick said about someone doing arithmetic silently: Her face goes blank, > for a few seconds, a

Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy (lost in the weeks?)

Hi Russ I still want to know what you say is going on during the moment of silence -- and especially how you talk about the "visions" in her mind that accompany the arithmetic work she is doing. Do you deny there are "visions of some sort" as she works out the answer? What's going on in you

Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy (lost in the weeks?)

Russ, I don't think the mathematical analogy is relevant. It doesn't seem to me to apply to remembering a face. Oh, I think the mathematical analogy works FINE for mental imagery. Let’s talk about “mental rotations” experiments. Is this three dimensional figure the same as this other

Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy (lost in the weeks?)

*Nick:* for me, and perhaps for Eric, there is no “place” or “process” that intercedes between the physiology and the behavior. *Russ:* Most people would say that they are thinking about something as they do arithmetic -- perhaps visualizing the numbers being operated upon and related numbers. Wha

Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy (lost in the weeks?)

I still don't understand your answer. I (and most people) would say that they visualize the numbers as they calculate. You say (if I understand you correctly) that people who say that are wrong, that they don't visualize, that the experience they claim to be reporting on not only doesn't exist, the

Re: [FRIAM] Subjectivity and intimacy (lost in the weeks?)

Larding also > Nick: If you had the figure in front of you, what you do? You would rotate > it in your hands. > > Russ: If the figure were in front of me and I rotate it, I also look at and > observe it. Rotating it with my eyes closed or in the dark of while looking > somewhere else doesn't