Re: [FRIAM] *-sovereignty

2021-10-20 Thread Jon Zingale
I suppose the slogan could be: "Proofs are to propositions as identities are to agents", and in the context of zero knowledge protocols, the parallel extends to: φ: Verifying a proof without exposing the proof. ψ: Verifying an identity without exposing the identity. To the degree that φ is the ca

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

2021-10-20 Thread Russ Abbott
I know these are supposed to be not-very-serious examples, but to take them at least somewhat seriously would you elaborate a bit? Let's focus on the bucket filling with water. Are you saying that this can be cast as a stigmergic interaction? How so? -- Russ On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 11:13 AM Jon

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

2021-10-20 Thread Jon Zingale
Two abuses of example: 1. A bucket fills with water, a threshold is met and the bucket switches mode to redirect water to the floor. 2. Baseball players in the field work shape the stats by acting on the batting players until a threshold is met and the players switch to the batting mode. .-- .-

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

2021-10-20 Thread Jon Zingale
I think of stigmergy as a niche construction that "constructs" back. Now I know that this is slightly different than the typical image where we picture stigmergy as an endofunctor on an agent's behavior, but I think it helps to explode-out what happens in that endofunctor. Stigmergy then ought to e

[FRIAM] Arbitrons, Computronium, Utility Fog, Smart Dust

2021-10-20 Thread Steve Smith
the schmear of me (that *is* what it *does* and *does* what it *is*?) got distracted seeking more info on the Gintautus/Hubler InterReality and was reminded by Hubler's Arbitrons of Utility Fog which reminded of Smart Dust which generalizes perhaps to Computronium or Programmable Matter which s

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

2021-10-20 Thread Steve Smith
Gelerntner's Mirror Worlds reminds me of the Gintautis/Hubler conception of InterReality: https://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl=en&user=Z0JinvkJ&citation_for_view=Z0JinvkJ:u-x6o8ySG0sC I brought Vadas down from LANL where he was a PostDoc to give his spiel o

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

2021-10-20 Thread Steve Smith
I do like the *is*/*does* duality you present here.   I also am reminded of the "constraint provides form" truism as you discuss niche construction. Stigmergy, for me, is the background fabric wherein "niche construction" is effected, though the "niche" is a higher order abstraction, that I *t

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

2021-10-20 Thread Marcus Daniels
Functional reactive programming is fine for this.. > On Oct 20, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Steve Smith wrote: > > And this seems to qualify as "side-effects programming" for CS purists. > Frowned upon in engineering perhaps but central to the fecundity of life > itself? > >> But it's a specific kind

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

2021-10-20 Thread Steve Smith
And this seems to qualify as "side-effects programming" for CS purists.  Frowned upon in engineering perhaps but central to the fecundity of life itself? But it's a specific kind of memory: a) shared and b) abused or misused. There should be a decoupling of the objectives of the writer from t

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

2021-10-20 Thread Prof David West
David Gelernter, noted computer scientist, creator of the Linda programming language, victim of the Unabomber, general A+++le, and, undoubtedly, a Trump supporter; once wrote an excellent book: *Mirror Worlds: or the Day Software puts the Universe in a Shoebox ... How it Will Happen and What It

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

2021-10-20 Thread David Eric Smith
When I was a very very little kid, there was a “question” my parents pointed out to me, which they thought might be an important puzzle to work through, but they were busy enough holding life together (more or less like hoping they could keep the various dams from breaking from one day to the ne

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

2021-10-20 Thread Frank Wimberly
By the way, Nick, blackboard systems like Hearsay had levels and causation among levels. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 6:43 AM Frank Wimberly wrote: > Now *that* sounds like s blackboard system. > > --- > Frank C.

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

2021-10-20 Thread Frank Wimberly
Now *that* sounds like s blackboard system. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 12:15 AM Jochen Fromm wrote: > Yes. Stigmergy always reminds me of ants looking for food using pheromone > trails. The classic swarm intelli

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

2021-10-20 Thread uǝlƃ ☤ $
I think we can distinguish questions in that way, if we think in terms of what we can *do* rather than thinking in terms of what things *are*. Marcus' point is well-received. There are plenty of things like Core Wars that differ from a typical (more purposefully engineered) thing. The distinctio