On 8/31/12 5:27 PM, "jude" wrote:
>> At one point, I prototyped a new LayoutManager that gave lower priority to
>> things that were not on the display list. The idea was you could then
>> start
>> pre-baking your next screen "in the background" so it would be ready to go.
>> Sure there would
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Alex Harui wrote:
>
>
>
> On 8/30/12 7:49 PM, "jude" wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/30/12 1:36 PM, "jude" wrote:
> >>> Remember when iOS 5 came out a year or so ago? The HTML5 performance in
> >>> that browser was
On 8/30/12 7:49 PM, "jude" wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
>
>> On 8/30/12 1:36 PM, "jude" wrote:
>>> Remember when iOS 5 came out a year or so ago? The HTML5 performance in
>>> that browser was 2FPS. After that update it was 35-40FPS. A 2000%
>> increase.
>>> [1
On 8/30/12 8:04 PM, "Jonathan Hart" wrote:
> I think I'm beginning to recognize a larger confusion in this
> discussion which should be brought to the table. Many people consider
> AS3 to be a scripting subset of Flex, which is simply not the case.
>
> With AS3 comes the display list framewor
I think I'm beginning to recognize a larger confusion in this
discussion which should be brought to the table. Many people consider
AS3 to be a scripting subset of Flex, which is simply not the case.
With AS3 comes the display list framework upon which Flash and Flex
are built.. there's that probl
Oh it ran for me but perhaps your definition of fine is different than mine
:P For me I got a lot of items popping around the screen on boot, scroll
bars stuck to the mouse, and overall slow rendering.
I didn't see any mention anywhere about AS3 code running in the browser NOT
in Flash Player.
-o
FYI It ran fine for me. I did mention it supported AS3 > HTML on the site
(so no Flash Player requirement). So it's says it's doing what we want it
to IIUC but I couldn't find any links to live examples.
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 5:21 PM, Omar Gonzalez wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Omar
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
> On 8/30/12 1:36 PM, "jude" wrote:
> > Remember when iOS 5 came out a year or so ago? The HTML5 performance in
> > that browser was 2FPS. After that update it was 35-40FPS. A 2000%
> increase.
> > [1]
> Yes, things get faster, but I would say t
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Omar Gonzalez wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Mr. Rich wrote:
>
>> This is a long discussion for something already available.
>>
>> http://reshapemedia.com/ftml/
>>
>> - flash (including older swf files) to html
>> - php to flash
>> - photoshop to fl
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Mr. Rich wrote:
> This is a long discussion for something already available.
>
> http://reshapemedia.com/ftml/
>
> - flash (including older swf files) to html
> - php to flash
> - photoshop to flash
> - renders in browser
> - lots of demos and docs
> - no install,
This is a long discussion for something already available.
http://reshapemedia.com/ftml/
- flash (including older swf files) to html
- php to flash
- photoshop to flash
- renders in browser
- lots of demos and docs
- no install, only 5 min setup
- lots more
That's only the online version. There
On 8/30/12 1:36 PM, "jude" wrote:
> To *guarantee* we get the same results across browsers we need to use
> something like the drawing canvas or SVG (or drawing commands) such as
> Flash uses itself REGARDLESS of performance. If we depend on browser
> manufacturers for different feature sets o
My personal preference would be not to use the Apache Flex Dev list to
discuss the pros and cons of Adobe open sourcing the Flash Player. Very
few readers of this list would have any say in such a thing; and
debating the pros and cons seems like non-productive use of our time.
On 8/30/2012
One thing that keeps coming back to me on this conversation is the argument
of performance, time to market and bandwidth vs correct architecture.
Why are we targeting HTML? Apple decides not to support Flash in iOS so now
Adobe rearranges resources to develop HTML development tools so now we are
t
>I haven't seen FalconJS but from what I read, it looks like it plays with the
>DOM.
FalconJOS (at least the Flex demo) basically tried to make a big SVG which was
rendered by the browser for interaction. Less than ideal on a few thousand
levels
g the Canvas (in my view).
Yvon
-Original message-
From: Roland Zwaga
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:46:24 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Cross-compiling Flex to HTML5/Javascript (Was : Update on
Falcon donation)
I was talking about this canvas:
http://en.wikipedi
> I was talking about this canvas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canvas_element
>
> I haven't seen FalconJS but from what I read, it looks like it plays with
> the DOM. That's what GWT does. It's good for Google because they had nothing
> to start with. For Flex, I say "forget about the DOM". Draw e
30, 2012 10:17:15 GMT+00:00
Subject: RE: Cross-compiling Flex to HTML5/Javascript (Was : Update on
Falcon donation)
When I wrote this I was thinking the OP was talking about a Canvas IE
widget container, not a graphics container. Alex had mentioned it
would be a lot more work with accessibil
When I wrote this I was thinking the OP was talking about a Canvas IE
widget container, not a graphics container. Alex had mentioned it
would be a lot more work with accessibility etc, I agree.
I was just speaking about containing it, no ties to the outside world
in the beginning.
Mike
Q
This is definitely how something would start, you would in essence
create a "player" where you could eliminate as many variables as
possible from the HTML/browser world.
Like I said, using ActionScript/Flex interface to output sometype of
native is what I'm really interested.
Just thinkin
On 8/29/12 5:51 PM, "ysma...@yahoo.com" wrote:
> My perhaps naive vision of what FalconJS would do (at least in the first
> version), was that it would grab some kind of HTML5 canvas element; and do
> everything in that rectangle: all drawing and event handling would occur in
> that element. I
"Michael A. Labriola"
To: "flex-dev@incubator.apache.org"
Sent: Wed, Aug 29, 2012 23:10:32 GMT+00:00
Subject: RE: Cross-compiling Flex to HTML5/Javascript (Was : Update on
Falcon donation)
Whereas with HTML(5) there is nothing in the standard that will let us do
specializa
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Michael A. Labriola <
labri...@digitalprimates.net> wrote:
> >BTW, FalconJS uses Google's closure compiler to optimize the generated
> javascript.
>
> I am not sure that is accurate... in fact, pretty sure it is not. The code
> generated by FalconJS, when it was be
>Flex is compiled ahead of time and we control the compiler. Whereas with
>HTML5, the browser interprets it. We cannot make changes to HTML5 and expect
>all browsers to understand it.
Flash Player understands byte code which is generated ahead of time. Browsers
understand JavaScript which is
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Michael A. Labriola <
labri...@digitalprimates.net> wrote:
> >Whereas with HTML(5) there is nothing in the standard that will let us do
> specialization (via inheritance or composition) I cannot dream up new
> elements and expect a browser to understand it out of
>BTW, FalconJS uses Google's closure compiler to optimize the generated
>javascript.
I am not sure that is accurate... in fact, pretty sure it is not. The code
generated by FalconJS, when it was being used to cross-compile a test Flex app,
was put into closure-compiler to try to make it smaller
>In flash player there is nothing but a text field and the ability to make some
>rectangles how did we get to Flex?
In case I am not being clear, Flash player doesn't understand new element types
you create. At the end of the day you are operating on DisplayObject. In truth,
had Flex operat
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Alain Ekambi wrote:
> GWT generates overbloated JavaScript ?
> Where do you have that one from ?
>
> GWT's Java to JavaScript compiler is one the best out there (The closure
> compiler beeing imho the best).
> And GWT 2.5 just added the closure compiler as a compil
>Whereas with HTML(5) there is nothing in the standard that will let us do
>specialization (via inheritance or composition) I cannot dream up new
>elements and expect a browser to understand it out of the box.
In flash player there is nothing but a text field and the ability to make some
recta
Hi Alain,
maybe I was talking too much without own knowledge or experience. I
never use GWT and was talking about what other colleges told me of
their experience and what I read...
so can't really say nothing. Sorry again.
Carlos
2012/8/30 Alain Ekambi :
> You dont see the relevance of Google
I meant I cant see the relevance of making open source the framework
regarding the comparison with how Flex could be cross-compiled to JS.
Since there is a core of developers in the community who would like to work
on this, discussing where Flex should be used in their topic is slightly
wrong.
My
You dont see the relevance of Google making GWT opensource ?
Use the right tool for the right job.
Why use GWT for a small app ?
This is the same for Flex. I see people using Flash/Flex where they should
not then complain about performance.
If you are not targeting AIR or the Desktop browser yo
>From my experience, using it for a simple site or a small app would
possibly create overbloated js indeed. But when it comes to middle or large
scale apps the code is heavily optimized and the end result makes sense in
terms of size and complexity.
Regarding Google making the framework fully open
GWT generates overbloated JavaScript ?
Where do you have that one from ?
GWT's Java to JavaScript compiler is one the best out there (The closure
compiler beeing imho the best).
And GWT 2.5 just added the closure compiler as a compilation option.
2012/8/30 Carlos Rovira
> AFAIK Google has made
AFAIK Google has made the same with GWT as Adobe with Flex. But GWT
has the problem to generate overbloated JS code...
2012/8/30 Nick Tsitlakidis :
> Hello guys, I'm following all the topics here but I post rarely because
> most of the times someone else has said something that I agree with 100%.
Hello guys, I'm following all the topics here but I post rarely because
most of the times someone else has said something that I agree with 100%.
This time though, I was trying to think about similar technologies which
are either compiled to js or they are converted in js in some other way.
So I t
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Michael A. Labriola <
labri...@digitalprimates.net> wrote:
> >Can you please elaborate?
>
> >The point I was trying to make was that HTML5 language itself is not
> designed to be extensible. Using Javascript does not really count (in this
> >context)
>
> >As far
>Can you please elaborate?
>The point I was trying to make was that HTML5 language itself is not designed
>to be extensible. Using Javascript does not really count (in this
>context)
>As far as using the DOM, I assume you mean the Microdata format. This results
>in non-standard HTML most of t
On 8/29/12 11:59 AM, "Carlos Rovira" wrote:
> I'd love to be able to target HTML5 with an OOP language...even better
> if it's Flex...but HTML5+JS+CSS has poor performance itself (remember
> that even Facebook kill his HTML5 app for iOS in favor of a native
> one). I imagine that it should be
I'd love to be able to target HTML5 with an OOP language...even better
if it's Flex...but HTML5+JS+CSS has poor performance itself (remember
that even Facebook kill his HTML5 app for iOS in favor of a native
one). I imagine that it should be hard to get there.
2012/8/29 :
> Quoting Alex Harui :
>
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Omar Gonzalez
wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 29, 2012, Erik Lundgren wrote:
>
> >
> > 29 aug 2012 kl. 14:51 skrev "Michael A. Labriola" <
> > labri...@digitalprimates.net >:
> >
> > > It's not that HTML is less extensible.
> >
> > How would one go about extending i
On Wednesday, August 29, 2012, Erik Lundgren wrote:
>
> 29 aug 2012 kl. 14:51 skrev "Michael A. Labriola" <
> labri...@digitalprimates.net >:
>
> > It's not that HTML is less extensible.
>
> How would one go about extending it?
>
> /Erik
>
JavaScript and the DOM.
-omar
Quoting Alex Harui :
I'm certain that we should explore a way to allow someone to use MXML-like
markup and an OO language to create apps to target apps on multiple devices.
Remember that we could simply become a front-end to PhoneGap/Cordova on the
way to getting native apps on devices. But w
On 8/29/12 8:13 AM, "Carlos Rovira" wrote:
> 2012/8/29 Alex Harui :
>>> One thing I never understood was Adobe not helping to open source
>>> Flash Player
>> My understanding is that one major factor is that key aspects of the player
>> depend on 3rd party works.
>
> We should learn of what o
29 aug 2012 kl. 14:51 skrev "Michael A. Labriola"
:
> It's not that HTML is less extensible.
How would one go about extending it?
/Erik
2012/8/29 Alex Harui :
>> One thing I never understood was Adobe not helping to open source
>> Flash Player
> My understanding is that one major factor is that key aspects of the player
> depend on 3rd party works.
We should learn of what others did in the past and those kind of
problems can be ov
On 8/29/12 6:30 AM, "Carlos Rovira" wrote:
>
> One thing I never understood was Adobe not helping to open source
> Flash Player
My understanding is that one major factor is that key aspects of the player
depend on 3rd party works.
> or transforming it to help to be the industry standard.
I
Quoting "Michael A. Labriola" :
It's not that HTML is less extensible, I used to think that too.
It's that HTML enforces a separation between form and function that
we tried to consider with Spark, but didn't make it far enough.
Having solid AS to JS support would make ActionScript a very
Maybe the major problem for Flex in the future is the Flash Player
dependency. Some time ago I thought Adobe and Flash will be a solid
platform, but nowadays we can not trust anymore in Adobe taking into
account that from one day to another they shift objetives in such
radikal way. Such change brin
>I had in mind writing in a subset of ActionScript that cross-compiles cleanly
>to JavaScript, which is basically the idea of FalconJS. But, not having worked
>on FalconJS, I never understood what it did with Flash classes like >Sprite
>that are implemented in native code in the player.
The way
And FalconJS or a ActionScript to JavaScript cross-compiler should
definitely be separate project.
In the case of OpenLaszlo, the decision was made to use JavaScript 2
as the main language for integration. OpenLaszlo has separate sprite
implementation for the HTML5/DHTML runtime and ActionScript 3.
tags in OpenLaszlo are objects without a visual representation (not in
the display list). When a
Quoting Carlos Rovira :
Hi Michael,
you probably are right and we should continue to evolve Flex to
continue going ahead of other technologies like HTML. Maybe FalconJS
could have sense as a new project to develop in OOP and output HTML5
based apps...something that HTML5 needs urgently since is
Hi Michael,
you probably are right and we should continue to evolve Flex to
continue going ahead of other technologies like HTML. Maybe FalconJS
could have sense as a new project to develop in OOP and output HTML5
based apps...something that HTML5 needs urgently since is its main
problem IMHO. But
This is pretty much my opinion as well and I should have just said it. :)
After seeing the last year or so and HTML5, I probably wouldn't spend
an ounce of time developing something like this(FalconJS). I really
have to agree with this post, well written.
I'm looking at a use case of Apache
> Sprite that are implemented in native code in the player.
>
> - Gordon
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: omup...@gmail.com [mailto:omup...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Om
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 5:46 PM
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Cross
lex to HTML5/Javascript (Was : Update on Falcon
donation)
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 5:00 PM, wrote:
> IMHO, problems like this are best solved with some type of framework
> that creates a high level abstraction, where you are taking the load
> of the generation and putting it into t
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 5:00 PM, wrote:
> IMHO, problems like this are best solved with some type of framework that
> creates a high level abstraction, where you are taking the load of the
> generation and putting it into the API that the generator implements.
>
> I think in the past, there has b
IMHO, problems like this are best solved with some type of framework
that creates a high level abstraction, where you are taking the load
of the generation and putting it into the API that the generator
implements.
I think in the past, there has been to much talk about emulating as
you sa
3:48 PM
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Update on Falcon donation
Hi Gordon,
I'm surprised to know FalconJS was discontinued by Adobe, taking into account
the new way to HTML5.
I would like to know more about this decision. Maybe it was studied and the
results were negat
28, 2012 2:41 PM
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Update on Falcon donation
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:
> No, sorry. FalconJS was a separate experimental project by a separate
> team (actually, by one person). It adds on to Falcon but isn't
> co
Hi Gordon,
I'm surprised to know FalconJS was discontinued by Adobe, taking into
account the new way to HTML5.
I would like to know more about this decision. Maybe it was studied
and the results were negative to think in FalconJS as a project that
could get to be a valid tool in the future?
What
Gordon thanks for the update.
I agree with Omar.
On 28 August 2012 22:41, Omar Gonzalez wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>
> > No, sorry. FalconJS was a separate experimental project by a separate
> team
> > (actually, by one person). It adds on to Falcon but isn't
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:
> No, sorry. FalconJS was a separate experimental project by a separate team
> (actually, by one person). It adds on to Falcon but isn't considered part
> of Falcon. It hasn't been maintained for a number of months and isn't
> currently in sha
ssage-
From: Gordon Smith [mailto:gosm...@adobe.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 12:52 PM
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Update on Falcon donation
The donation documents have been sent to Apache. Adobe has to wait for
notification that they have been recorded before we can
steps after donating Falcon will be
to figure out what to do about FalconJS.
- Gordon
-Original Message-
From: filippo dipisa [mailto:fili...@dipisa.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 1:24 PM
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Update on Falcon donation
Hi Gordon,
does th
Alex says this sometimes takes a while.
>
> - Gordon
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Gordon Smith [mailto:gosm...@adobe.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 10:23 AM
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Update on Falcon donation
>
> Falcon is
, 2012 10:23 AM
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Update on Falcon donation
Falcon is the version of the compiler that is being donated to Apache. It was
forked off of the FB 4.7 compiler about a month ago and is essentially the same
except for the packages being renamed from
: Pepe [mailto:pepe.f...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 7:16 AM
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Update on Falcon donation
Hello
Are you talking about the new compiler in FlashBuilder 4.7 beta which is not
Falcon precisely?
2012年8月28日火曜日 Gordon Smith gosm...@adobe.com
This is great news!
I have been waiting for this since January. :)
I have heard that Falcon does not implement ASDoc, is there anybody
interested in starting a conversation about how ASDoc should be
implemented with the new compiler?
FYI, I am very interested in donating my time to ASDoc a
Hello
Are you talking about the new compiler in FlashBuilder 4.7 beta which is
not Falcon precisely?
2012年8月28日火曜日 Gordon Smith gosm...@adobe.com:
> The donation document for Falcon has been signed by the relevant Vice
> President at Adobe. (He was on vacation for the last two weeks, causing a
>
This is great news!
I have been waiting for this since January. :)
I have heard that Falcon does not implement ASDoc, is there anybody
interested in starting a conversation about how ASDoc should be
implemented with the new compiler?
FYI, I am very interested in donating my time to ASDoc a
The donation document for Falcon has been signed by the relevant Vice President
at Adobe. (He was on vacation for the last two weeks, causing a delay.) When
the document has been sent to Apache and recorded, I'll add the code to the
repository.
- Gordon
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