On Fri, 7 Aug 2015 17:06:14 -0700
Gregory Nowak wrote:
> This is something that systemd did, and one of the things about it
> that really ticked me off. Let me provide a couple of examples:
>
> 1. One of the things I did when playing with debian jessie was to
> install a virtual machine which w
Hi everyone. It's been a little while since I last posted.
Some of you might remember that I occasionally write reviews for
DistroWatch. Not too often, because it's my policy to only write about a
distro that I actually use (or would use) in everyday life. Ever since
systemd starting contaminating
Steve Litt:
...
> /etc/inittab is unique to sysvinit and OpenRC (which uses sysvinit as
> PID1). If we're ever forced to move to another (besides systemd) init,
> we won't have /etc/inittab either, but we'll still be able to do
> everything we did with sysvinit, just differently.
...
busybox init
T.J. Duchene wrote:
On 08/07/2015 09:31 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Trivial as in, somebody has to do it. The whole point of packaging
is to automate a lot of the routine things involved in installation.
And, because Debian (and presumeably Devuan) don't put stuff in
default locations, pac
You could always lift scripts from Wheezy and use them as a template.
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 2:28 AM, Miles Fidelman
wrote:
> T.J. Duchene wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 08/07/2015 09:31 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Trivial as in, somebody has to do it. The whole point of packaging is
>>> to auto
On 08/08/2015 03:43, Isaac Dunham wrote:
Which, fortunately, is pretty easy to do: I wrote an environment
sanitizer yesterday, because I was curious how easily solved that is.
Usage is
cautenv [-c DIR] [-u] [-x] COMMAND [COMMAND_ARGS...]
Would you mind linking it ? I'm interested in trying to
On 8 August 2015 09:28:42 CEST, Miles Fidelman
wrote:
>If, instead, they start removing the sysv scripts, and including
>homebrew systemd units - then we're in for a mess of rework.
both me, Franco and other VUAs are literally aiming to a fork, either after
Jessie or Ascii as infrastructure
But now we're back into having to have a completely separate package
repository, along with a full set of package maintainers. Sigh.
T.J. Duchene wrote:
You could always lift scripts from Wheezy and use them as a template.
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 2:28 AM, Miles Fidelman
mailto:mfidel...@m
Jaromil wrote:
On 8 August 2015 09:28:42 CEST, Miles Fidelman
wrote:
If, instead, they start removing the sysv scripts, and including
homebrew systemd units - then we're in for a mess of rework.
both me, Franco and other VUAs are literally aiming to a fork, either after
Jessie or Ascii as i
> Jaromil wrote:
> >Its early to say, but this thread is just prospecting. I believe that
> >on a longer term we can hardly do worse tha Debian when untangling
> >dependencies that right now constantly drag in desktop oriented
> >stuff, like avahi and other similar nonsense that we almost got use
"T.J. Duchene" writes:
> If I might add my two cents a few days late,
>
> I really do not think that kdbus matters overly much and that people
> (including myself in the past) have assigned too much concern to the topic.
> Kdbus is little more than an implementation of dbus, which is a fairly
Hi Robert,
So my big question here: in what ways will Devuan differ from AntiX?
To be honest, I've not looked at AntiX, and thus can't comment on
differences and similarities.
I'm guessing that vdev will be part of the answer, but surely there
is more.
My perspective is that Devuan aims
Isaac Dunham writes:
> On Thu, Aug 06, 2015 at 05:14:28PM +0200, Laurent Bercot wrote:
>> On 06/08/2015 16:31, Isaac Dunham wrote:
>> >If differences in environment can cause problems, it's a problem with
>> >design. A program that changes what it does just due to differences
>> >between the init
On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 11:03:34 +0200
Jaromil wrote:
>
> > Jaromil wrote:
>
> > >Its early to say, but this thread is just prospecting. I believe that
> > >on a longer term we can hardly do worse tha Debian when untangling
> > >dependencies that right now constantly drag in desktop oriented
> > >st
On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 15:02:07 +0800
Robert Storey wrote:
> Hi everyone. It's been a little while since I last posted.
>
> Some of you might remember that I occasionally write reviews for
> DistroWatch. Not too often, because it's my policy to only write about a
> distro that I actually use (or wou
> On Fri, Aug 07, 2015 at 01:58:19PM +0100, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
[...]
>> The general idea would be
>>
>> 1) Keep a relatively simple init which kicks off execution of commands in
>>response to 'change the system state' request and nothing else (get
>>rid of as much of /etc/inittab as
On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 22:44:41 +1200
Daniel Reurich wrote:
> Devuan may have been born out of anger at the decisions of the TC, but
> already it is shaping up to be more then just Debian with sysvinit.
> Vdev is certainly a step away from systemd ties, but the discussions on
> the mailinglist an
Miles Fidelman writes:
> Rainer Weikusat wrote:
[...]
>> Also, to re-iterate this: What an init script needs to do is really only
>> 'start a process'/ 'stop a process'. Most of the other code which crept
>> in there during the last 15 - 20 years will fall into one of two
>> categories
>>
>>
If the developers of devuan are paying a lot of attention to the various
discussions on here about init systems, audio, getting rid of pulseaudio
and other 'pet-hates' then it slows down the implementation of
Plan A:-
get rid of systemd. Preferably all references to it such as systemd-shim
will
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Dave Turner
wrote:
> various XFCE irritations for normal people made me do a full debian jessie
> install with systemd and all. I s wish I hadn't!
> XFCE doesn't work at all.
Devuan Testing installs systemd by default, but it's easy to remove
without breaking
Dave Turner writes:
[many words]
This seems to boil down to: In its present state, I consider Devuan
unusable. Was that what you actually meant to say?
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https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
On 08/08/15 13:46, Riccardo Boninsegna wrote:
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Dave Turner
wrote:
various XFCE irritations for normal people made me do a full debian jessie
install with systemd and all. I s wish I hadn't!
XFCE doesn't work at all.
Devuan Testing installs systemd by default
Jaromil wrote:
Jaromil wrote:
Its early to say, but this thread is just prospecting. I believe that
on a longer term we can hardly do worse tha Debian when untangling
dependencies that right now constantly drag in desktop oriented
stuff, like avahi and other similar nonsense that we almost got u
Riccardo Boninsegna wrote:
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Dave Turner
wrote:
various XFCE irritations for normal people made me do a full debian jessie
install with systemd and all. I s wish I hadn't!
XFCE doesn't work at all.
Devuan Testing installs systemd by default, but it's easy to
On Sat, Aug 08, 2015 at 09:43:47AM +0200, Laurent Bercot wrote:
> On 08/08/2015 03:43, Isaac Dunham wrote:
> >Which, fortunately, is pretty easy to do: I wrote an environment
> >sanitizer yesterday, because I was curious how easily solved that is.
> >Usage is
> >cautenv [-c DIR] [-u] [-x] COMMAND [
Miles,
Remember that devuan is still at Aplha2.
Perhaps Beta 1 will be free of systemd, but until then, aptitude is your
friend!
DaveT
On 08/08/15 15:12, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Riccardo Boninsegna wrote:
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Dave Turner
wrote:
various XFCE irritations for normal
On 08/08/2015 05:36 AM, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
to 'use of systemd', there are things which sound like they were to fear
more seriously, ie, the stated intention of at least one kernel
maintainer (Tejun Hejo, spelling probably wrong) that he wants to "break
userspace" in order to turn cgroups "i
On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 09:46:07 +0200
Jaromil wrote:
>
>
> On 8 August 2015 09:28:42 CEST, Miles Fidelman
> wrote:
>
> >If, instead, they start removing the sysv scripts, and including
> >homebrew systemd units - then we're in for a mess of rework.
>
> both me, Franco and other VUAs are litera
On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 06:26:40 -0500
Thaddeus Nielsen wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 15:02:07 +0800
> Robert Storey wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone. It's been a little while since I last posted.
> >
> > Some of you might remember that I occasionally write reviews for
> > DistroWatch. Not too often, because
"T.J. Duchene" writes:
> On 08/08/2015 05:36 AM, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>> to 'use of systemd', there are things which sound like they were to fear
>> more seriously, ie, the stated intention of at least one kernel
>> maintainer (Tejun Hejo, spelling probably wrong) that he wants to "break
>> user
It seems to me that it's good to have shim programs that satisfy
dependencies of apps on systemd, each shim performing some systemd
function. Here's why:
Suppose there are 10,000 application programs (apps) for Linux,
and their developers foolishly insert dependencies on systemd.
If Devuan dev
On August 8, 2015 4:12:23 PM CEST, Miles Fidelman
wrote:
>Riccardo Boninsegna wrote:
>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Dave Turner
>> wrote:
>>> various XFCE irritations for normal people made me do a full debian
>jessie install with systemd and all. I s wish I hadn't!
>>> XFCE doesn't work
On August 8, 2015 2:39:15 PM CEST, Dave Turner
wrote:
>If the developers of devuan are paying a lot of attention to the
>various
>discussions on here about init systems, audio, getting rid of
>pulseaudio
>and other 'pet-hates' then it slows down the implementation of
>Plan A:-
>get rid of syste
IMHO, if an external program calls a systemd API, does it because want
that systemd does something.
Write 10-100-1000 systemd shims that don't do anything, simply returns
"true" is not a solution: in case, we have to "translate" the systemd
api call to the "real" daemon in execution and this cou
On Sat, 8/8/15, Mark S Bilk wrote:
Subject: [DNG] Systemd Shims
To: dng@lists.dyne.org
Date: Saturday, August 8, 2015, 11:49 AM
[cut]
So please drop the fear of contamination, and consider the shims as a simple,
inexpensive
and effective wall of defense against systemd.
Mark
-
Nextime wrote:
On August 8, 2015 4:12:23 PM CEST, Miles Fidelman
wrote:
Riccardo Boninsegna wrote:
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 2:39 PM, Dave Turner
wrote:
various XFCE irritations for normal people made me do a full debian
jessie install with systemd and all. I s wish I hadn't!
XFCE doesn'
On August 4, 2015 11:05:04 PM CEST, Rainer Weikusat
wrote:
>Steve Litt writes:
>> On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 12:45:19 +0100
>> Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>>
>>> I'm looking for an upgrade path for a Debian wheezy installation I
>>> can't keep forever. I wouldn't mind some rough edges as I'm
>perfectly
>>>
From the look of Mark's website I was a bit disappointed not to find a
link to www.davidicke.com!
But, if the quick'n'dirty pragmatic solution is systemd shims then so be
it as far as I am concerned.
DaveT
On 08/08/15 18:14, Go Linux wrote:
On Sat, 8/8/15, Mark S Bilk wrote:
Subject: [DN
On 08/08/15 13:58, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
Dave Turner writes:
[many words]
This seems to boil down to: In its present state, I consider Devuan
unusable. Was that what you actually meant to say?
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailingl
What is wrong in using "shutdown -h now"? I use it whenever I boot my
Devuan installation 64 bit. Don't tell me opening a terminal, typing
'su' and the root password, is geeky stuff!
On 08/08/2015, Dave Turner wrote:
> On 08/08/15 13:58, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>> Dave Turner writes:
>>
>> [many
From the look of Mark's website I was a bit disappointed not to find a
link to www.davidicke.com!
But, if the quick'n'dirty pragmatic solution is systemd shims then so be
it as far as I am concerned.
DaveT
On 08/08/15 18:14, Go Linux wrote:
On Sat, 8/8/15, Mark S Bilk m...@cosmicpenguin.co
G'evening,
On Sat, Aug 08, 2015 at 08:30:58PM +0100, Dave Turner wrote:
> From the look of Mark's website I was a bit disappointed not to find a link
> to www.davidicke.com!
Well... I'm fine with what I saw, I mostly don't care because his beliefs
are his own business. Yeah, even praising Ruby as
On Sat, Aug 08, 2015 at 08:42:49PM +0100, Dave Turner wrote:
> Devuan Alpha worked perfectly well for me, but not for the normal
> people that use my iMac. They expect to click shutdown and have the
> computer shutdown, no asking for passwords, no rebooting instead of
> shutting down.
That happens
G'evening,
On Sat, Aug 08, 2015 at 08:30:58PM +0100, Dave Turner wrote:
From the look of Mark's website I was a bit disappointed not to find a link
to www.davidicke.com!
Well... I'm fine with what I saw, I mostly don't care because his beliefs
are his own business. Yeah, even praising Ruby as
As (bad) luck would have it, I just received an email from Jesse Smith (who
writes the DistroWatch Weekly Review) informing me that he already wrote a
review of antiX and it will be published this Monday. It would be too late
to withdraw it now, since that would leave him without a review for this
On Sun, Aug 09, 2015 at 10:13:45AM +0800, Robert Storey wrote:
> what exactly does systemd-shim do? Is it just
> a package to trick other packages with dependencies on systemd, without
> actually installing systemd?
It allows running parts of systemd (logind, some power management functions,
etc)
On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:13:45 +0800
Robert Storey wrote:
> My next review will probably be about Void Linux.
Excellent choice!
> Jesse wrote a very
> brief review of Void a few months ago, in which he basically said it
> didn't run on his machine, so he dismissed it as "not ready."
You mean
On Sun, Aug 09, 2015 at 10:13:45AM +0800, Robert Storey wrote:
> Since
> I'm a fan of the Raspberry Pi, I definitely want to see another distro
> available for it that is systemd-free. There is also FreeBSD for the Pi,
> though I understand it is very much a work in progress, but I'm interested
> i
On Sun, Aug 09, 2015 at 10:13:45AM +0800, Robert Storey wrote:
[snip]
> My next review will probably be about Void Linux. Jesse wrote a very brief
> review of Void a few months ago, in which he basically said it didn't run
> on his machine, so he dismissed it as "not ready." That was actually a
> p
On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 22:10:13 -0700
Isaac Dunham wrote:
> Try Alpine Linux (alpinelinux.org).
> Install docs are here:
> http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Installation
[snip]
>
> -init is Busybox init, with OpenRC on top.
Fascinating! The Busybox PID1 with the OpenRC process adminstration is
eno
On Sun, Aug 09, 2015 at 01:43:36AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 22:10:13 -0700
> Isaac Dunham wrote:
>
> > Try Alpine Linux (alpinelinux.org).
> > Install docs are here:
> > http://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Installation
>
> [snip]
>
> >
> > -init is Busybox init, with OpenRC o
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