> On 2017-01-27, at 14:04, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>
> While there was much heat, I don't think Sun was pure in this matter. Not by
> any means. Whatever the case, when Apache OpenOffice was founded, it was as
> an Apache Project, not any other kind. The "original" that you speak of
> ex
> -Original Message-
> From: Jörg Schmidt [mailto:joe...@j-m-schmidt.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 00:08
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!
>
>
>
> > -Original Messa
> -Original Message-
> From: Simon Phipps [mailto:si...@webmink.com]
> In fact Go-OO was started by Ximian in 2003, long before Novell bought
> them, as a convenient build system for developers not working
> within Sun.
> The difficulty of getting the Sun team to accept patches, and
On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 5:21 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>
> > From: toki [mailto:toki.kant...@gmail.com]
>
> > * GoOo: The fork that wasn't.
>
> Oh, that was a fork! A fork against OpenOffice.
>
In fact Go-OO was started by Ximian in 2003, long before Novell bought
them, as a convenient build syste
+1, yeah we should talk in person.
You can always only build communities by meeting.
Matthias Seidel schrieb am So., 22. Jan. 2017,
09:25:
> It CAN work!
> Indeed it does in an even smaller community for several years...
>
> We should have a talk together with Raphael and Peter at FOSDEM 17.
>
>
Am 23.01.2017 um 03:00 schrieb toki:
> On 01/22/2017 09:20 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>
>> When LibreOffice forked that code, as the license allowed, some were unhappy
>> in any case.
>
> The sequence was:
> * Star Office: Owned by StarDivision, a German corporation;
AFAIK the story started
> From: toki [mailto:toki.kant...@gmail.com]
> * GoOo: The fork that wasn't.
Oh, that was a fork! A fork against OpenOffice. Let's not forget the
involvement of Novell and the Novell-Microsoft-deal.
I will never forget how Michael Meek's SUN and OpenOffice.org attacked and
later his attacks
> From: Mathias Röllig [mailto:mroellig.n...@gmx.net]
> > What "original OpenOffice" is thought of here?
>
> The „original“ was StarOffice. And yes, you described right
> the way of
> the „original“ OpenOffice – as I understand it as a user (with many
> contacts to StarDivision/Sun/Oracle)
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org]
> I am puzzled a little bit about the idea of "loyalty to the
> original" OpenOffice.
>
> 1. The original OpenOffice.org was operated by a proprietary
> company, although the code was made available as open-source.
> But ownership was h
I am puzzled a little bit about the idea of "loyalty to the original"
OpenOffice.
1. The original OpenOffice.org was operated by a proprietary company,
although the code was made available as open-source. But ownership
was held by Sun Microsystems for their proprietary purposes. There
was great
urday, January 21, 2017 13:17
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; orc...@apache.org
> Subject: Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org]
>
> > Apache Projects all
> From: Matthias Seidel [mailto:matthias.sei...@hamburg.de]
> It CAN work!
Yes. But it takes very good ideas to have success.
> We should have a talk together with Raphael and Peter at FOSDEM 17.
Talking together is always good
Greetings,
Jörg
-
Hello,
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de]
> IMO Raphael's suggestion will work under Apache rules. It is
> normal that
> developers of Apache projects are paid by companies etc. to contribute
> to the project.
I have no doubt about that.
But is this the bes
Hallo Raphael,
> From: Raphael Bircher [mailto:rbircherapa...@gmail.com]
> You got here something wrong. It's not needed to make a fork.
> You can do
> the whole work at Apache OpenOffice. You have only to follow the
> Development guide lines of OpenOffice. But that's not a
> problem I th
It CAN work!
Indeed it does in an even smaller community for several years...
We should have a talk together with Raphael and Peter at FOSDEM 17.
Kind regards
Matthias
Am 22.01.2017 um 08:26 schrieb Dr. Michael Stehmann:
> Hi,
>
> IMO Raphael's suggestion will work under Apache rules. It is no
Hi,
IMO Raphael's suggestion will work under Apache rules. It is normal that
developers of Apache projects are paid by companies etc. to contribute
to the project.
Whether Raphael`s plan will work as a "business model", we will see.
Kind regards
Michael
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Hi Jörg
Am .01.2017, 22:16 Uhr, schrieb Jörg Schmidt :
-Original Message-
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org]
Apache Projects all produce software free to the public.
Nothing more.
Is a office-programming-projekt under Apache Licence not a free project?
Coming int
> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org]
> Apache Projects all produce software free to the public.
> Nothing more.
Is a office-programming-projekt under Apache Licence not a free project?
> Coming into the Incubator means operating
> under the Inc
> -Original Message-
> From: Jörg Schmidt [mailto:joe...@j-m-schmidt.de]
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 03:48
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!
>
>
> > From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net]
> Go ahead, but you are missing my point. Managing money like
> you propose is not something Apache Members want to do.
Ok, clear.
I myself will continue to try to convince, so this opinion changes.
> Having a good working relationship with
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net]
> Read to the bottom. Don't mistake my opposition to the
> following statement as opposition to a way forward to funding
> of a third party.
>
> > and one more note:
> > Our PMC is a PMC of an Apache project and it must be loyal
> to the ASF
mbers of the PMC have also participated in this list discussion,
> I see no consideration on the part of the PMC itself.
>
> - Dennis
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 16:16
>
participated in this list discussion, I see no
consideration on the part of the PMC itself.
- Dennis
> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 16:16
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Community building:
Hi -
Go ahead, but you are missing my point. Managing money like you propose is not
something Apache Members want to do.
Having a good working relationship with a third party is something the ASF does
all the time.
The AOO project could find a way to work out a program that would serve to make
Hmm, the discussion moves in a wrong direction, with wrong assumptions.
I am against a status quo solution. For me status quo directly transfers
to nothing happens.
I am not talking of creating one Investor that provides Money. I aim at
mobilizing as much as possible Open Office users has as I
Hi -
Read to the bottom. Don't mistake my opposition to the following statement as
opposition to a way forward to funding of a third party.
> and one more note:
> Our PMC is a PMC of an Apache project and it must be loyal to the ASF and the
> OpenOffice project.
> If, however, there are single
> From: Jörg Schmidt [mailto:joe...@j-m-schmidt.de]
> I do not think your opinion is _so_ different, because _I
> share your opinion_.
Sorry, I think that's too short and not understandable.
What I meant when I said positively to the LO/TDF-organizational-model is the
willingness to offer goo
> -Original Message-
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de]
> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 5:13 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!
>
> Am 20.01.2017 um 12:38
Am 20.01.2017 um 12:38 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
>
>
>> I think LibreOffice are to a certain degree correct. The ASF is not
>> capable to do the Project Open Office at this Point. The structure of
>> Libre Office is a much more healthy one for the kind of Project
>> Libre/Open Office is.
>
> Yes,
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org]
> I observe that the Board and the Offices of ASF do not wish
> to deal with hypothetical cases. Exceptions must be specific
> and actionable. Also, exceptions do not create precedents.
> If one project sees something they want as excep
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
> But in my eyes we need a way to ensure project health and
> turn towards
> the community we have. We were last year at the edge of project
> retirement. We are slowly fighting our way out by pure
> voluntary work of
> people that belive in t
January 18, 2017 23:08
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; orc...@apache.org
Subject: Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!
Star Citizen proofed that a community can follow developers intend and
raise the money needed.
Even if we can not use the business model, we can learn something
building: give our User a chance to contribute!
>
[ ... ]
> I recommend that all developers interested in this discussion also
> subscribe to d...@communit.apache.org where good discussion can be held.
[ ... ]
acs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 23:08
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; orc...@apache.org
> Subject: Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!
>
> Star Citizen proofed that a community can follow developers intend and
> raise the money ne
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!
> >
> > Am .01.2017, 05:31 Uhr, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton :
> >
> [ ... ]
> >
> > I personaly don't believe in that model for Apache OpenOffice. There
> -Original Message-
> From: Raphael Bircher [mailto:rbircherapa...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 21:36
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!
>
> Am .01.2017, 05:31 Uhr, schri
Hi,
Am 17.01.2017 um 01:47 schrieb toki:
> There is nothing preventing an individual, or group of individuals, from
> setting up an organization that generates its own revenue, and supports
> AOo. More pointedly, that is precisely what Akikazu Yoshikawa does with
> AndrOpen Office.
> My impression
Am .01.2017, 05:31 Uhr, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton :
-Original Message-
From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 19:39
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!
If a member can not
> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 19:39
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!
>
> If a member can not collect for the hole pro
If a member can not collect for the hole project, I think the ASF should
do. That would be the simplest solution.
Can we ask the ASF what they think? Are they against a simple OpenOffice
development specific fund?
After all this is a end user product, not some IT component.
Maybe we think and spec
Hello,
> From: Raphael Bircher [mailto:rbircherapa...@gmail.com]
> > Team OpenOffice was such a project. The participants were mainly
> > experienced OpenOffice developers from SUN Microsystems.
> I think, the real problem there was this text
> http://www.opensourceforbusiness.info/openoff
A third party like a Team OpenOffice under a name that avoids users confusion
with Apache OpenOffice could raise money and fund development as a separate,
independent entity. That's what IBM did. The entity just needs to be careful
about guaranteeing the work will be taken by Apache OpenOffice.
Am .01.2017, 11:00 Uhr, schrieb Jörg Schmidt :
Hello,
From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
We see in Star citizen how mighty crowd can be.
Maybe a platform would be great where people can pledge money
for something
they need.
If the needed budget is reached, payed developers imple
Le 16/01/2017 à 18:32, esh1907 a écrit :
On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Hagar Delest
wrote:
So basically, what is the user base? Who should AOO focus on? For a
company I doubt the price of MS Office is really a problem (they negotiate
fees for sure). Since documents are mostly shared in .docx
On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Hagar Delest
wrote:
> So basically, what is the user base? Who should AOO focus on? For a
> company I doubt the price of MS Office is really a problem (they negotiate
> fees for sure). Since documents are mostly shared in .docx/.xlsx formats,
> why bother with ap
On 16.01.2017 06:30, Peter Kovacs wrote:
> Maybe the title is misleading, but this thread is about how to build a
> developer team that advocates in user interest.
> Shouldn't we focus on this?
>
> For me MS has nothing to do with the conflict between ASF and Team
> OpenOffice. I think the core
Hello,
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 6:31 AM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!
>
> Maybe the title is misleading, but this thread is about how to build
Maybe the title is misleading, but this thread is about how to build a
developer team that advocates in user interest.
Shouldn't we focus on this?
For me MS has nothing to do with the conflict between ASF and Team
OpenOffice. I think the core conflict was about market names. They should
not have r
Hello,
I could involve me in Gallery extensions as I'm already active in Wikipedia
in macro/microphotography (User:Softenpoche).
As I'm not a coder, I can not help for other extensions.
Regards
--
gw
2017-01-15 18:59 GMT+01:00 Dr. Michael Stehmann <
anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de>:
> Hello,
>
On 15/01/2017 19:28, toki wrote:
On 01/15/2017 02:52 PM, Mathias Röllig wrote:
Many companies need to import MS document formats. They don't have the
choice to teach all customers to send an other document format.
That might be the case in the United States, but in Europe, the legal
requirem
Many companies need to import MS document formats. They don't have the
choice to teach all customers to send an other document format.
That might be the case in the United States, but in Europe, the legal
requirement is to use ODF file formats.
I can only speak for my experiences in Germany. M
Hello,
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de]
> there are 3 items stated:
And I have a fourth:
We should maintain the high quality standards of OO.
> - improving import filters
+1
Greetings,
Jörg
Hello,
there are 3 items stated:
- fixing major bugs
- improving import filters
- improving and creating new extensions
IMO all 3 points are important.
Topic one and two have to be done by core developers.
Topic three can also be done by others and in collaboration with LO people.
So IMO we h
Hello,
You all talking about the standalone product. It is a good point but
only a piece.
Many companies need to import MS document formats. They don't have the
choice to teach all customers to send an other document format.
So for the acceptance there is a big need to improve the import filte
Hi all,
2017-01-15 14:18 GMT+01:00 Hagar Delest :
> Le 14/01/2017 à 11:58, mabdul a écrit :
>
>> Believe me: MS doesn't follow Apache OpenOffice any longer as they know
>> that in the next ~10 years OpenOffice cannot hurt MS. Moreover they have
>> switched to a subscription based model (Office365
Le 14/01/2017 à 11:58, mabdul a écrit :
Believe me: MS doesn't follow Apache OpenOffice any longer as they know
that in the next ~10 years OpenOffice cannot hurt MS. Moreover they have
switched to a subscription based model (Office365) latetly to secure
their userbase and even increase the earned
> From: mabdul [mailto:mab...@eclipso.de]
> > You are basically right, but let me give the following information.
> >
> > Team OpenOffice was such a project. The participants were
> mainly experienced OpenOffice developers from SUN Microsystems.
> >
> > See:
> >
> https://web.archive.org/web/
Hi,
On 14.01.2017 11:00, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> Hello,
>
>> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
>
>> We see in Star citizen how mighty crowd can be.
>>
>> Maybe a platform would be great where people can pledge money
>> for something
>> they need.
>> If the needed budget is reached,
Hi esh,
On 14.01.2017 11:53, esh1907 wrote:
> No chance as long as Microsoft is a platinum sponsor of Apache.
> The best thing that can happen to wonderful OpenOffice is to ditch Apache
> for an independent commercial company.
Believe me: MS doesn't follow Apache OpenOffice any longer as they kno
We also need to split tasks out into those that primarily need
OpenOffice user skills, and those that require digging deeply into the
implementation code.
In the long term, I think I may be on the leading edge of a major future
source of open software developers - retirees.
On 1/14/2017 12
No chance as long as Microsoft is a platinum sponsor of Apache.
The best thing that can happen to wonderful OpenOffice is to ditch Apache
for an independent commercial company.
On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Raphael Bircher
wrote:
> Hi at all
>
> If we compare AOO to day with the good old Open
> From: Raphael Bircher [mailto:rbircherapa...@gmail.com]
> > This is just an idea. I am not sure if we can do business
> within the ASF
> > or
> > if we have to found a 3rd party entity for this.
>
> It definitely need a external instance.
In this case, it is inappropriate to discuss the su
Hello,
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
> We see in Star citizen how mighty crowd can be.
>
> Maybe a platform would be great where people can pledge money
> for something
> they need.
> If the needed budget is reached, payed developers implement it.
> Or we could do it as a bo
Am .01.2017, 09:24 Uhr, schrieb Peter Kovacs :
We see in Star citizen how mighty crowd can be.
Maybe a platform would be great where people can pledge money for
something
they need.
If the needed budget is reached, payed developers implement it.
Or we could do it as a bonus system. You pledg
We see in Star citizen how mighty crowd can be.
Maybe a platform would be great where people can pledge money for something
they need.
If the needed budget is reached, payed developers implement it.
Or we could do it as a bonus system. You pledge money on a bug/enhancement,
if the bug gets include
Hi at all
If we compare AOO to day with the good old OpenOffice.org Project in 2006,
we have now a tiny community. Well, we will be able to maintain the
project, make some bugfix and maybe some features too. But we will never
track down the work who is in our issue tracker.
But surprising
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