* GOTO Masanori <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004-09-01 01:30]:
> At Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:26:28 +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
>> The Debian Project apologies for the unfortunate german quoting on the
>> command line interface. A solution is worked on, but unfortunately
>> hasn't made it into Sarge. As a wo
Am 2004-08-31 16:27:03, schrieb Michael Stone:
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 12:35:58PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> >No apology is necessary, because of (1).
>
> No apology is necessary because it's a ridiculous concept.
>
> I hesitate to tell people to use UTF-8 because full multibyte compli
> > Frankly, I am getting tired of discussing this issue. I can't
> > understand why you, gotom, are that stubborn and can't respect a
> > decision taken by the German translation team. You already stated
> > at the very beginning of this bug report, that you find it "not
> > well inspected" [6]..
> At some point, gotom needs to either accept that the German team has
> *done* the deep thinking, or else do it himself. So far he declared
> it a wishlist item (AFAICT) and refused to either think about it *or*
> take the German team's word for it.
Well, maybebut being rude in words toward
Christian Perrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Changing the behaviour of the german locale is certainly something
> that should not be done without deep thinking. The german team seems
> to have done this with the help of others like Denis. That's fine.
At some point, gotom needs to either accep
> Frankly, I am getting tired of discussing this issue. I can't understand
> why you, gotom, are that stubborn and can't respect a decision taken by
> the German translation team. You already stated at the very beginning
> of this bug report, that you find it "not well inspected" [6]... To me
>
On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 03:21:05PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
Perhaps you could write down some of the more frequent problems that
users with UTF-8 might expect to see
No. I have no interest in this problem and don't care to work with you.
I've reassigned the coreutils bug to libc6 and
On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 02:36:25PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
I agree that an apology isn't necessary, but *some* kind of advice,
given that sarge will be *removing* support for a large class of users,
That's not true. Something is changing, arguably for the worse. Nobody
is being unsupp
Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 02:36:25PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> >I agree that an apology isn't necessary, but *some* kind of advice,
> >given that sarge will be *removing* support for a large class of users,
>
> That's not true. Something is chan
On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 02:29:21PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
But the problem here is that you seem totally unable to seek
compromise. I'll try again.
Good grief, this isn't personal. Maybe you should just relax and come
back tomorrow.
Mike Stone
On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 02:14:48PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
Actually that's not a "real technical reason". If you could point to
a package with a bug that would be a serious problem if people used
UTF-8, then that would be a real technical reason. But saying "it
isn't required for sarg
Roland Bauerschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > "The XXX locale for German unfortunately uses a bad way of
> > representing open quotation marks. We have retained it this way in
> > order to preserve compatibility with other Linux distributions, and
> > we
Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 02:29:21PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> >But the problem here is that you seem totally unable to seek
> >compromise. I'll try again.
>
> Good grief, this isn't personal. Maybe you should just relax and come
> back tomorro
Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> "The XXX locale for German unfortunately uses a bad way of
> representing open quotation marks. We have retained it this way in
> order to preserve compatibility with other Linux distributions, and
> we hope that in the future it will be fixed. Meanwhile, the
On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 02:09:36PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
Are you willing to compromise?
What is there for me to compromise about? I pointed out a potential
*technical* problem with your proposal and you jumped all over me and
suggested that my phone number be put in the release note
Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I didn't say it did. I pointed to a potential problem. For all I know,
> in an exclusively german context UTF-8 won't cause problems at all. What
> I did say is that full multibyte compliance isn't guaranteed.
So how about a release note that describes
Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 02:09:36PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> >Are you willing to compromise?
>
> What is there for me to compromise about? I pointed out a potential
> *technical* problem with your proposal and you jumped all over me and
> sugg
On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 01:33:00PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
Are you just trying to make it as difficult as possible to solve the
problem?
No, I'm aghast that the concept of including an *apology* in the release
notes for a typographical ugliness is being given any consideration at
al
Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Don't be an ass. I replied with a real technical reason why you might
> not want hordes of people switching to UTF-8 and you suggest *that* as a
> reasonable response? I had thought better of you.
Actually that's not a "real technical reason". If you c
Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> No, I'm aghast that the concept of including an *apology* in the release
> notes for a typographical ugliness is being given any consideration at
> all. Talking about solutions is fine, but singling something like this
> out for an apology is ludicrous.
On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 12:35:58PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
No apology is necessary, because of (1).
No apology is necessary because it's a ridiculous concept.
I hesitate to tell people to use UTF-8 because full multibyte compliance
isn't guaranteed in sarge.
Mike Stone
Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 12:35:58PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> >No apology is necessary, because of (1).
>
> No apology is necessary because it's a ridiculous concept.
Are you just trying to make it as difficult as possible to solve the
problem
Mario Lang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> It feels to me as if you are intentionally failing to get my point.
> I have no problems reading ``this'' as double quotes, but ,,this" is just
> a double comma.
Can you explain the difference? Both seem ugly to me. Though:
,,this" is inconsistent. It
Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 04:59:05PM +0200, Mario Lang wrote:
>>Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>> Once again, the english quotes are also stupid:
mv -iv foo bar
>>> `foo' -> `bar'
>>>
>>> It is not clear why german users are the only ones
Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 08:28:14PM +0200, Mario Lang wrote:
> >It feels to me as if you are intentionally failing to get my point.
>
> Likewise. :)
> >I have no problems reading ``this'' as double quotes, but ,,this" is just
> >a double comma.
>
> Well
Jens Nachtigall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Can you give some pointers to this? If you follow the long bug report
> [1], you'll see that there is agreement that the current ,," quoting is
> by far the worst transliteration. 2 opinions stated that the
> transliteration towards »« might be prob
On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 08:28:14PM +0200, Mario Lang wrote:
It feels to me as if you are intentionally failing to get my point.
Likewise. :)
I have no problems reading ``this'' as double quotes, but ,,this" is just
a double comma.
Well, `` isn't a double quote any more than ,, is--it's a p
> It's not good idea to enforce your opinion to the release
> announcements because even some German guys do not think it's
> acceptable currently.
Can you give some pointers to this? If you follow the long bug report
[1], you'll see that there is agreement that the current ,," quoting is
by far
Andreas Barth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > It's hardly a workaround--it seems to me that we should encourage
> > UTF-8 wherever we can. So we do support German, we even support it
> > correctly, with correct quoting, and the way to get it is to turn on
> > the UTF-8 based locale.
>
> In my op
At Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:26:28 +0200,
Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> The Debian Project apologies for the unfortunate german quoting on the
> command line interface. A solution is worked on, but unfortunately
> hasn't made it into Sarge. As a workaround, switching to a UTF-8 based
> locale will avoid the
On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 04:59:05PM +0200, Mario Lang wrote:
Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Once again, the english quotes are also stupid:
mv -iv foo bar
`foo' -> `bar'
It is not clear why german users are the only ones who need an "apology"
because they get stupid-looking quotes.
Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 12:26:28PM +0200, you wrote:
>>A) Using the same quotes as in english, i.e., ""
>
> Once again, the english quotes are also stupid:
>> mv -iv foo bar
> `foo' -> `bar'
>
> It is not clear why german users are the only ones who need
On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 12:26:28PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> the release notes need to contain a note to users using the german
> locale along the lines:
The contact address for the release notes is
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Thomas Bushnell BSG ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [040831 12:55]:
> Helge Kreutzmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > The Debian Project apologies for the unfortunate german quoting on the
> > command line interface. A solution is worked on, but unfortunately
> > hasn't made it into Sarge. As a workaround,
* Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004-08-31 06:59]:
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 12:26:28PM +0200, you wrote:
>>A) Using the same quotes as in english, i.e., ""
>
> Once again, the english quotes are also stupid:
>>mv -iv foo bar
> `foo' -> `bar'
>
> It is not clear why german users are the only
On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 12:26:28PM +0200, you wrote:
A) Using the same quotes as in english, i.e., ""
Once again, the english quotes are also stupid:
mv -iv foo bar
`foo' -> `bar'
It is not clear why german users are the only ones who need an "apology"
because they get stupid-looking quotes.
Helge Kreutzmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The Debian Project apologies for the unfortunate german quoting on the
> command line interface. A solution is worked on, but unfortunately
> hasn't made it into Sarge. As a workaround, switching to a UTF-8 based
> locale will avoid the problem.
Um,
Hello,
the release notes need to contain a note to users using the german
locale along the lines:
The Debian Project apologies for the unfortunate german quoting on the
command line interface. A solution is worked on, but unfortunately
hasn't made it into Sarge. As a workaround, switching to a UTF
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