Hello,
On Thu 05 Jul 2018 at 09:54AM +0100, Sean Whitton wrote:
> Could you switch the web mirrors to use the multipage version, please?
This is now done, thanks to Paul Wise.
> Then I can drop the file from our releases.
This will happen on the next upload.
> If Sphinx upstream imp
in the Policy
Manual. ISTM that it should go under section 5.13.2 of the Developers'
Reference, which discusses how the urgency field is implemented by our
infrastructure.
If you agree, please reassign, or explain why you think dev-ref would
not be appropriate.
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bene explained to me that it is standard to defer to the localisation
mailing list's own procedures.
6. When we have a translation of a substantial portion of Policy into
language xx, add a new binary package debian-policy-xx that installs
that translation to /usr/share/doc/debi
Hello,
On Mon 30 Jul 2018 at 01:57PM +0200, Mattia Rizzolo wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 04:44:53PM +0800, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> 6. When we have a translation of a substantial portion of Policy into
>>language xx, add a new binary package debian-policy-xx that inst
Hello,
On Tue 31 Jul 2018 at 10:05AM +0800, Hideki Yamane wrote:
> Is translated policy inclueded to debian-policy package or separated
> to debian-policy-xx package as same as developers-reference, etc?
The latter.
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e
> bugs than it will fix.
After my patch Policy refers to "upstream release notes" and explicitly
says that those are user-oriented, and I think we can trust maintainers
to be able to identify those no matter what the file in which they are
contained is called.
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TS will
remain available for as long as Debian exists than we do with salsa, and
so am against moving any discussions to salsa because such records are
important for our process. Further, using the BTS rather than salsa
makes it harder to delete any discussions accidentally.
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si
s. Let's improve this.
Would s/maximally// be sufficient? Or s/maximally/more/ ?
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IIRC my hope was to generalise the recommendation to apply to as many
different build systems as possible. For example, packages whose builds
do not involve any compilers and linkers.
We could restore your text in a footnote or a "For example ..."
paragraph?
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; a bug with handling multiple binary packages (it fails to find sphinx
> doc files if there's two binary packages). So I've specified its
> installation manually.
Right.
I think maybe we can use dh_linktree instead of dh_sphinxdoc.
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Hello again,
On Fri 03 Aug 2018 at 01:59PM +0800, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> dh_sphinxdoc doesn't work well as expected, it means it seems to have
>> a bug with handling multiple binary packages (it fails to find sphinx
>> doc files if there's two binary pack
some of my monthly blog posts to debian-devel too, on an
irregular basis. (Andreas)
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est
templates but you can't use it as a README for those submitting them)
Thanks to Ian Jackson for suggesting using a separate repo and Tássia
Camões Araújo for review of these ideas.
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olved! Thanks.
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o this bug.
ISTM that the next step is to figure out what adduser bugs should be
filed and/or set as blocking this bug. Then we can write a patch.
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a build log tens of megabytes in
size, it should not be included.
3) Deal with the 'maximally' problem with one of the rewordings I
suggested in a previous message -- we want to include mention that
it's debian/rules that does the work of enabling the reasonable
verbosity.
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I would love to be able to stop copying and pasting upstreams'
> license grant text.)
Yes. I too very much hope we can improve the status quo.
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of gathering relevant input,
but that somewhat defeats the purpose of a separate -policy mailing
list. We can't copy every bug there.
Suggestions for doing better at this would be welcome.
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ption, in that
it is allowed to access apt repositories.
Once we have a better solution actually in use in the archive, it can be
written down in Policy.
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etbase" package at the time of writing.
+
+.. [#]
Rationale:
- This allows maintaining the list separately from the policy
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possible to summarise the
current discussion as the first message to a new bug, or whether things
are still sufficiently unclear that all the context needs to be
present.)
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d be quite useful to have this as a
subpolicy. I have learned quite a bit just from a quick scan through
the page.
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tree from dh_sphinxdoc.
Unfortunately, that is necessary now that we have translations, which
dh_sphinxdoc is not yet able to handle.
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gt; correct.
The dependency is automatically generated and inserted into
${misc:Depends}. This cannot be overridden. And when a package uses
debhelper, you should always have ${misc:Depends}.
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backwards compatibility
> and innovation.
Good point.
If it goes into the debian-policy package it is automatically subject to
the Policy Change Process but we could add some additional information
on what to expect with regard to this subpolicy in particular.
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Desc
ol-specific substvars, though.
> Failing that, some appropriate seddery on debian/substvars or some
> extra options to dh_something may be able to work around that bug.
I would apply a patch if it were not too exciting...
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so if you want to work on
this, you should file a new bug.
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ided, and
the consensus that it sometimes has to happen should be noted, along
with mention of registering bundled copies with the security team where
appropriate.
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is
> application happens to run without even necessarily knowing it's
> written in Perl. It seems better to ensure that this sort of pattern
> just works.
Yes. Users should not have to think very hard about the language in
which stuff that Debian installs into /usr/bin is implemented.
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ge to recommend
verbosity in only specific cases, please do clone this bug, or file a
new one (IMO the latter would be more useful at this point in the
discussion, but I appreciate that it is more work).
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wn issues.
Thank you for the patch -- applied.
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stitution from HTML did not work here. There a several
> other instances of similar problems below in the README, e.g. below
> "Repository layout" and "Managing a bug"
All fixed, thanks.
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enting Ian's
substvar hack.
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info]
+ Accepted [5:tag=pending]
+ Rejected [7:tag=wontfix]
+ Unknown process status [0]
thanks
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# replace '[2]' with '[2:]' as is required
usercategory issue-complexity [hidden]
* Issue Complexity
+ Simple [0:tag=simple]
+ Complex [1:tag=complex]
+ Unspecified complexity [2:]
thanks
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Hello,
On Sat 04 Aug 2018 at 12:36PM +0800, Sean Whitton wrote:
> 2) The most important info in triage.txt is the list of straightforward
>and less straightforward bugs. Move these to usertags, 'simple' and
>'complex' ('newcomer' has the wrong se
x]
+ Unspecified complexity [2:]
thanks
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ew URI yet.
[1] https://www.debian.org/doc/devel-manuals#d-i-internals
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, people are
used to the idea that purging a Debian package does not touch files the
package did not install. I am really not sure.
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uld not help make
debian-policy installable on stretch, which was the original bug
reporter's problem.
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Hello,
On Sat 04 Aug 2018 at 12:36PM +0800, Sean Whitton wrote:
> 1) Seconding would be much easier with word diffs. Either a convention
>to include in "seeking seconds" posts a reference to a git branch,
>and a sample command to fetch and get a word diff, or a scrip
complexity;package=debian-policy
Thanks
==
In light of the recent redelegation of the Policy team, the remaining
Policy Editors would like to take this opportunity to thank Bill
Allombert and Andreas Barth for their contributions
over the years.
For the Policy Editors:
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Hello,
On Wed 05 Sep 2018 at 05:58PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Sean Whitton writes ("[DRAFT] Bits from the Policy Team"):
>> I'm thinking of sending out the following to d-d-a; reviews welcome.
> ...
>> Thanks to work by Hideki Yamane , Ian Jackson and myself
gt; https://salsa.debian.org/debian/developers-reference/merge_requests/4
>
> Let me know if adding that paragraph would be ok and if the wording is
> correct.
> I'm not sure on how to handle the po files. Let me know if I can help on that
> too.
LGTM -- it matches th
tibility anymore. So
maybe at some point adduser will start creating users in this range. So
maybe we should carve out a section of that range for systemd, for
future proofing?
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strative details' and 'administrivia'.
> Also, looks odd in the
> debian-policy document as last three characters of this word stands
> seperated from the rest of the characters of this word - may be
> because of font used in the document or something.
Hmm? Can you
Hello,
On Mon 17 Sep 2018 at 09:25AM +0530, Jaikumar Sharma wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 11:55 PM Sean Whitton
> wrote:
>> Hmm? Can you provide a screenshot, please?
> Sure, attached is the snapshot from debian-policy document.
Thank you, but I was asking for a screenshot
, I'm afraid that I still
cannot see the problem. It looks normal to me.
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at the spacing before the 'i' is larger in the Policy text
than in the superimposed text, but it is not suggestive of a bug.
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Hello,
Would "debian-policy-pt-br" be the right name for a binary package
containing a translation of Debian Policy into Brazilian Portuguese?
Thanks.
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o that right now, so marking as pending.
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icy.
Thank you, applied.
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currently:
> https://lintian.debian.org/tags/possible-documentation-
> but-no-doc-base-registration.html
If we make the change, Lintian should probably stop emitting the tag.
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the severity
of the tag to be less related to the project consensus on the value of
doc-base.)
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ent right now, though some are opposed
on principle.
My first thought is that such a move would take years and years for
only minimal benefit to Debian.
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just outdated text
that did not take into account the changes to init systems that have
occurred in recent years.
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comments to the relevant Policy bugs, please? They
will be relevant whenever someone decides to push those bugs forward.
#452393 and/or #776557.
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any serial consoles or embedded systems, I find
Ian's arguments convincing)
- if you want the Policy Team and Process to make this decision for you,
you can set your bug as blocked by our bugs #452393 and/or #776557
and/or other relevant bugs, as resolving those would be the way
ce of
> people being actively against netbase in build essential then I'd say
> this policy change can't go on at all…
Yes, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought there was consensus
that netbase should be added.
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at was triggered by tests.reproducible-builds.org not
> resolving localhost) within pbuilder (#905307) btw.
Cool, thank you.
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ed "plug-ins", internal shared
=
To obtain a side-by-side diff:
% git clone salsa.debian.org:dbnpolicy/policy.git debian-policy
% cd debian-policy
% git difftool -y -x icdiff master..origin/bug188731-spwhitton
Alternatively, visit
https://salsa.debian.org/dbnpolicy/policy/commit/3cc86484767ac0aead9b7466c074ade5021ef225?view=parallel
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t it would make the ToC
> substantially harder to read), and would relieve Lintian from having to
> do this hack.
Indeed, we do not have many fourth level headings.
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en made.
This might mean we have to manually merge d/changelog, but I think
that's a reasonable price to pay.
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; forgot about it. :)
Cool, whoever applies a normative change next gets to create a branch
called 'next', then.
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plemented by other tools, but at the same time nearly everyone doing
> Debian packaging is using debhelper (either directly or indirectly),
> so it's a bit of a disservice to people to ask them to wade through a
> bunch of specifications for stuff that normally they don't and
already handled for them.
At present Policy does not require crossbuilding support. So while it
would be nice to include details of how to properly support
crossbuilding, it's not as though we're contradicting another
requirement in Policy. So it seems like including the crossbuilding
det
;debhelper", "cdbs with debhelper", "dh-style debhelper", and
> "dhmk-style debhelper".
Indeed, but the shading will get a lot less useful if it merely
indicates that there is /some/ common tool that implements the
requirement. We probably want to restrict the
esult (and thereby comply with the policy's recommendation to support
> reproducible builds).
I've updated the footnote. Thanks.
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x27;may' (see Policy 1.1). I assume you mean the RFC2119 meaning of
'shall', which is equivalent to 'must'?
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tim copy of the
+package's copyright information, too; see :ref:`s-copyrightfile` and
+:ref:`s-pkgcopyright` for details, and for further considerations
+related to copyrights for packages.
.. _s4.6:
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to require copyright information in all cases, even if they'd
allow it to be excluded ;)
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evsen
Seconded: Russ Allbery
Closes: #912581
+ * Policy: Required targets must not write outside of the source package tree
+Wording: Johannes Schauer
+Seconded: Sean Whitton
+Seconded: ...
+Closes: #845715
* In a preexisting footnote, recommend passing -D to strip(1)
red targets may write to the directory specified
> by the ``TMPDIR`` environment variable (or ``/tmp`` if that is not
> set), provided that files created in that directory are deleted before
> the target completes and are not reused by subsequent executions of
> the target.
+function.
+
.. _s12.2:
Info documents
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h appreciate someone who knows about these things
> describing why, because it isn't currently clear to me.
I note that no such binary package exists right now. Does this issue
remain unresolved? I also note recent discussion on d-devel. Kindly
update this bug with the present state of play.
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eason why I don't see how we could
introduce a requirement to use Build-Conflicts into Policy. We would
not be able to determine whether we were making packages buggy by doing
that.
Thus, I'm marking this bug as done with the s/can/may/ change, since I
don't think the normative change is one we can feasibly make.
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> +``/etc/init.d`` scripts is available in the man page init-d-script(5).
Reading #913154, I note that the example in init-d-script(5) is shorter
than the old file /etc/init.d/skeleton. So shouldn't Policy refer to
the new file in /usr/share/doc/initscripts/examples, instead?
Hello,
On Fri 09 Nov 2018 at 05:39PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Thank you! Seconded.
This change seems to be purely informative; could you say why you think
it needs seconding, please?
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ependencies specified by the package were
satisfied. So this requirement was being violated.
Once Build-Conflicts was added, the package no longer violated this
requirement. That's because satisfying the build-time dependencies
means removing automake.
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ally want (ii)? It seems like a recipe for all sorts of
confusion. Do any packages currently work like that?
In order to implement something like this, we'd need to rebuild the
archive on a "development workstation" to confirm we weren't making a
lot of packages RC-bugg
he targets are as follows:
``build`` (required)
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that would surely already be
considered to be a bug, possibly RC, depending on what the differences
were.
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t; --disable-apparmor for any feature we don't (yet?) want to enable.
Right. ISTM that it would be a bug if this was not done, which is why
it seems unwise to include Ian's (ii) in Policy.
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o you mean by "not RC outside of the build process"?
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tead.
>
> However if some other package use this program in its own build process,
> then this other package is RC buggy under this new rule. This can be
> inconvenient.
Okay, thanks, I see what you mean now.
> Do we have some data about how many packages fails to honor TMPDIR ?
Not to my own knowledge.
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Hello,
On Sun 11 Nov 2018 at 09:08PM GMT, Dmitry Bogatov wrote:
> [2018-11-10 17:02] Sean Whitton
>>
>> Reading #913154, I note that the example in init-d-script(5) is shorter
>> than the old file /etc/init.d/skeleton. So shouldn't Policy refer to
>> the new fi
he role of the Policy Manual.
(If no seconds but also no objections are forthcoming, I'll just apply
it as an informative change.)
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if it is
> a decades-long practice in debian-policy)...
This is already there, in § 1.3.3
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control: tag -1 +pending
Hello,
On Thu 15 Nov 2018 at 10:37AM GMT, Dmitry Bogatov wrote:
> [2018-11-12 12:53] Sean Whitton
>> > Sorry, I do not understand. Why? Currently, there is no such thing as
>> > `/usr/share/doc/initscripts/examples'.
>>
>> The fi
chive.
+
10.1
Binaries should be stripped using
``strip --strip-unneeded --remove-section=.comment --remove-section=.note``
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to
hear from those others who seconded the older patch to see if they are
happy to drop the TMPDIR parts.
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Hello,
On Mon 12 Nov 2018 at 01:23PM GMT, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Sean Whitton writes ("Bug#824495: debian-policy: Source packages "can"
> declare relationships"):
>> On Sun 11 Nov 2018 at 11:31AM GMT, Simon McVittie wrote:
>> > I think the best practice
at 01:39PM GMT, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Sean Whitton writes ("Bug#824495: debian-policy: Source packages "can"
> declare relationships"):
>> Do we really want (ii)? It seems like a recipe for all sorts of
>> confusion. Do any packages currently work like that?
adable too.
I have not thought through Bill's arguments here carefully, but let's
not block making the list of virtual packages machine-parseable on the
question of whether or not we can remove the changelog.
Let's just retain the changelog in a YAML comment, and proceed to merge
the
s soon as we switched to Sphinx[1] and
it was included in Debian Project News.[2] Maybe filing this bug will
cause someone who's interested to notice -- thanks!
[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/08/msg7.html
[2] https://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2017/03/#help
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+ description: Debian's preferred implementation of dbus-session-bus,
possibly architecture-specific
# Documentation
@@ -435,3 +439,7 @@ virtualPackages:
# virtual-mysql-server-core
# virtual-mysql-testsuite
# 08 Jan 2017 Added adventure
+#
d
> provider (currently pam-systemd)
Could you provide an actual diff to be applied to policy.git, please?
Please follow the style for the other default-* packages listed there.
Ansgar's suggestion should probably be included, too.
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Hello Adam,
On Fri 28 Dec 2018 at 12:36pm +0100, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 06:28:04PM +0000, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> Could you provide an actual diff to be applied to policy.git, please?
>
> Sure, what about:?
Thanks.
Ideally, this would be reviewed and sec
Hello Adam,
On Sun 30 Dec 2018 at 03:39pm +0100, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 02:07:25PM +0000, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> Ideally, this would be reviewed and seconded by people working on init
>> stuff, so I'm not going to second it myself unless we don't
d,
basically. Not so for changes to the English text.
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