On Fri, 2005-12-30 at 00:45 +1100, skaller wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 03:35 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
>
> > While insiders are not qualified to comment on how outsiders *feel* about
> > the process, they are certainly the people to judge whether the *outcome* of
> > the process is the corre
On 1/4/06, Stefan Potyra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'll just try to restart the discussion with a proposal:
> Currently I maintain one package (min12xxw, see [1]) for ubuntu, have filed an
> ITP (#334093) in debian but haven't tried hard enough to find a sponsor yet.
>
> Since this packa
Hi Stefan,
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006, Stefan Potyra wrote:
> I'll just try to restart the discussion with a proposal:
> Currently I maintain one package (min12xxw, see [1]) for ubuntu, have filed
> an
> ITP (#334093) in debian but haven't tried hard enough to find a sponsor yet.
>
> Since this packag
On Mon, Dec 19, 2005 at 10:25:58AM -0500, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
> hct looks very cool and does seem to solve some of the problems that are
> considered here. When I read https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/HCT , I
> get the sense that it's not actually released yet. Is that the case? If
> no
On Mon, Dec 19, 2005 at 03:53:22PM +0100, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> I disagree. Soyuz is a reimplementation of the archive software. HCT
> addresses the problem of package publishing within Soyuz. In what scope
> HCT will support 'collaborative maintenance' is AFAIK quite unclear.
HCT is a tool fo
Hi,
I'll just try to restart the discussion with a proposal:
Currently I maintain one package (min12xxw, see [1]) for ubuntu, have filed an
ITP (#334093) in debian but haven't tried hard enough to find a sponsor yet.
Since this package is quite small one, it might be well suited to just try out
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005, skaller wrote:
> > These things take time.
>
> Indeed. However change must start with awareness.
We're quite aware of our limitations, but we can't make miracles.
There's a lot to do and this thread proves that some people are willing to
make things change for people like y
On Fri, 2005-12-30 at 09:46 +0100, Frank Küster wrote:
> skaller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If your upstream software has a good installation procedure - something
> like the autotools
[Lol .. you really don't want to hear my opinion of autotools :]
> type with the possibility to change direc
Em Sex, 2005-12-30 às 14:12 +1100, skaller escreveu:
> On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 19:12 -0200, Guilherme de S. Pastore wrote:
> > Even then, do you think you are ready to upload a package to the Debian
> > archive?
>
> Mine, yes. I know more about it than anyone else
You may know about the software i
On Fri, 2005-12-30 at 07:45 +, Neil Williams wrote:
> On Friday 30 December 2005 7:11 am, skaller wrote:
> Until the NM backlog is cleared, I'd recommend applying now if you see any
> prospect of this changing in the next year. It could be at least 8 months
> before you get assigned an appli
skaller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Right now, however, when I release an upstream tarball,
> there is a whole bunch of work for the maintainer/DD to
> do .. the set of files in the package may have changed,
> the dependencies may have changed, the documentation
> set may have changed. This is tr
On Friday 30 December 2005 7:11 am, skaller wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-12-30 at 05:17 +, Neil Williams wrote:
> > I'm in a similar situation - upstream developer and packager, applying to
> > be a DD.
>
> Unfortunately becoming a DD isn't an option for me personally,
> at least at the moment.
Until
On Fri, 2005-12-30 at 05:17 +, Neil Williams wrote:
> I'm in a similar situation - upstream developer and packager, applying to be
> a
> DD.
Unfortunately becoming a DD isn't an option for me personally,
at least at the moment.
It rightly requires more commitment to package building than
On Friday 30 December 2005 3:12 am, skaller wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 19:12 -0200, Guilherme de S. Pastore wrote:
> > Even then, do you think you are ready to upload a package to the Debian
> > archive?
>
> Mine, yes. I know more about it than anyone else, I know
> what the issues are and have
On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 19:12 -0200, Guilherme de S. Pastore wrote:
> Even then, do you think you are ready to upload a package to the Debian
> archive?
Mine, yes. I know more about it than anyone else, I know
what the issues are and have a sponsor to ask for help,
I'm registered on debian-mentors
Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> I'm going to dip my spoon into this soup, because I dislike soup, and
> this one especially irks me.
Even ice cream soup?
> Reviewing other people's patches in large quantities every day is
> something that few people will be happy to do for more than a few
> days. After t
Em Sex, 2005-12-30 às 07:56 +1100, skaller escreveu:
> > So come up with a better way and show it to everybody, please.
>
> I'm trying. Don't expect a complete working plan though!
So don't act as if it were a complete working and flawless plan, please.
Debian has also been trying to come up with
On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 17:14 -0200, Guilherme de S. Pastore wrote:
> Em Sex, 2005-12-30 às 05:08 +1100, skaller escreveu:
> > I'm an outsider, I'm giving my impression of the process
> > to insiders that cannot see what I do from the outside
> > (as both a user and software developer).
>
> Do not f
On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 09:28 -0800, Richard A. Hecker wrote:
> skaller wrote:
> >I can suggest whole heap of things that would improve
> >the situation .. but I can't choose which ones to
> >implement. All I can do is ask .. please do SOMETHING
> >to streamline the process a bit more and to make it
Em Sex, 2005-12-30 às 05:08 +1100, skaller escreveu:
> I'm an outsider, I'm giving my impression of the process
> to insiders that cannot see what I do from the outside
> (as both a user and software developer).
Do not forget that people are not born with their Debian accounts and
that they have b
skaller wrote:
On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 03:35 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
..
Sorry, if you want Debian to make
particular changes to make it easier to contribute,
I suspect near universal agreement exists here that an ideal system would
enable everyone to contribute according to t
On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 16:54 +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> I'm going to dip my spoon into this soup, because I dislike soup, and
> this one especially irks me.
Pity.
> I'm sorry, are you trying to tell me what my goal is?
Certainly not, why would you think that?
> My goal certainly
> is not to
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 00:45:25 +1100, skaller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 03:35 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
>> While insiders are not qualified to comment on how outsiders *feel*
>> about the process, they are certainly the people to judge whether
>> the *outcome* of the pro
I'm going to dip my spoon into this soup, because I dislike soup, and
this one especially irks me.
pe, 2005-12-30 kello 00:45 +1100, skaller kirjoitti:
> On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 03:35 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
>
> > While insiders are not qualified to comment on how outsiders *feel* about
> > th
On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 03:35 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> While insiders are not qualified to comment on how outsiders *feel* about
> the process, they are certainly the people to judge whether the *outcome* of
> the process is the correct one.
Outcome for their own personal pleasure? No: they'
On Thu, Dec 29, 2005 at 03:43:59PM +1100, skaller wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 23:50 -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > > (...)
> > > I wasn't addressing your point specifically. Instead, I'm raising
> > > another one. The whole Debian system is a serious pain and an
> > > impediment to cooperatio
On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 23:06 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> skaller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> This is frustrating but it's hard to really do anything about this since
> neither Ubuntu nor Debian is really able to sync development cycles with
> the other.
Sure they are. The question is if the te
skaller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Actually this is what happens now, and the process isn't all that fast,
> and isn't all the coherent: the most popular new architecture -- the one
> set to dominate the desktop market IMHO -- and the primary arch of
> Ubuntu -- namely x86_64 -- isn't even buil
skaller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I might be willing to package some of these things myself. What puts me
> off is not doing the packaging work -- its having to hassle about
> getting a DD to upload it. And then hassle them every time there is an
> upgrade. I don't really like hassling people
On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 23:50 -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > (...)
> > I wasn't addressing your point specifically. Instead, I'm raising
> > another one. The whole Debian system is a serious pain and an
> > impediment to cooperation. Ubuntu is not much better.
> >
> > I should not have to be a DD
On Thu, Dec 29, 2005 at 02:14:14PM +1100, skaller wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 20:44 -0500, Justin Pryzby wrote:
>
> > > EG: My comp is on the net sometimes and sitting here idle.
> > > I'd be happy if Debian used it occasionally to build binaries.
> > > Where is the web page telling me how to a
On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 20:44 -0500, Justin Pryzby wrote:
> > EG: My comp is on the net sometimes and sitting here idle.
> > I'd be happy if Debian used it occasionally to build binaries.
> > Where is the web page telling me how to advise Debian autobuilder
> > how to access my comp??
> That won't h
On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 13:05 +1100, Matthew Palmer wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 29, 2005 at 12:13:31PM +1100, skaller wrote:
> > This is how Wikipedia works and why it is successful. With minimal
> > fuss I have contributed some comments and a couple of changes.
>
> How easy is it for a Wikipedia comment t
> (...)
> I wasn't addressing your point specifically. Instead, I'm raising
> another one. The whole Debian system is a serious pain and an
> impediment to cooperation. Ubuntu is not much better.
>
> I should not have to be a DD to commit to
> the archive -- ANYONE should be able to commit perhaps
On Thu, Dec 29, 2005 at 12:13:31PM +1100, skaller wrote:
> This is how Wikipedia works and why it is successful. With minimal
> fuss I have contributed some comments and a couple of changes.
How easy is it for a Wikipedia comment to contain a rootkit, though?
- Matt
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to
On Thu, Dec 29, 2005 at 12:13:31PM +1100, skaller wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 21:27 -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > skaller wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 13:37 -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> I would beg of those with interest in Debian to try to
> figure out a way to streamline the process
On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 21:27 -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> skaller wrote:
> > On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 13:37 -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> >
> >> it's
> >>just a matter to publish the patches (a good PQM will do that for you)
> >>and let the others branch' maintainers do the merge when necessary.
>
skaller wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 13:37 -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
>
>> it's
>>just a matter to publish the patches (a good PQM will do that for you)
>>and let the others branch' maintainers do the merge when necessary.
>
>
> Publishing patches is a serious pain in the backside
> and a hu
On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 13:37 -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> it's
> just a matter to publish the patches (a good PQM will do that for you)
> and let the others branch' maintainers do the merge when necessary.
Publishing patches is a serious pain in the backside
and a huge impediment to cooperation.
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
>>You just lost the people that I'm talking about. I can explain a
>>changeset, but merges are deep black magic that are extremely difficult to
>>understand except at a highly abstract level, and when using a distribu
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, Russ Allbery wrote:
> You just lost the people that I'm talking about. I can explain a
> changeset, but merges are deep black magic that are extremely difficult to
> understand except at a highly abstract level, and when using a distributed
> VCS, they have to deal with merges
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, J. Bruce Fields wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2005 at 03:32:42PM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> > On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, J. Bruce Fields wrote:
> > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2005 at 08:47:44AM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
> > > wrote:
> > > > Since bzr (and other arch deri
On Tue, Dec 20, 2005 at 03:32:42PM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, J. Bruce Fields wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 20, 2005 at 08:47:44AM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> > > Since bzr (and other arch derivates) have the benefit of NEVER forgeting
> > > which chan
Hi J.!
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, J. Bruce Fields wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2005 at 08:47:44AM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> > Since bzr (and other arch derivates) have the benefit of NEVER forgeting
> > which changesets are in a tree, I prefer them over any other distributed
> > system.
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2005, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> This may not be the most popular opinion, particularly among fans of
>> distributed VCSes (and I do understand the merits), but wrapping your
>> mind around the distributed model isn't easy. I ca
On Tue, Dec 20, 2005 at 08:47:44AM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> Since bzr (and other arch derivates) have the benefit of NEVER forgeting
> which changesets are in a tree, I prefer them over any other distributed
> system. If anyone knows of other distributed system that saw the ligh
* Raphael Hertzog ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) disait :
> following the last discussion at the Debian-QA meeting on Darmstadt, it
> appears that the proposal called "Collaborative maintenance" is of generic
> interest :
> - for Debian sponsors and Debian mentors
> - for QA which may use the infrastructure
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > In other words, a distributed VCS allows all parties to manage their own
> > repositories equally, and the project can nominate one of them the
> > "official" central repository, without impacting everyone's abili
Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> In other words, a distributed VCS allows all parties to manage their own
> repositories equally, and the project can nominate one of them the
> "official" central repository, without impacting everyone's ability to
> communicate changes between other reposi
On 19-Dec-2005, Stefan Potyra wrote:
> Am Montag 19 Dezember 2005 16:25 schrieb Asheesh Laroia:
> > Thanks. I agree with the Ubuntu side of this discussion that
> > dealing with non-distributed svn would be a pain
>
> I'd object to this, since one of the goals would be to make it easy
> to review
> Am Sonntag, den 18.12.2005, 17:19 +0100 schrieb Raphael Hertzog:
> > This infrastructure is seriously needed in Debian because:
> > - team maintenance with SVN is more and more popular, and a good web
> > interface above a SVN repo of Debian packages would help all those
> > teams
>
> I'd b
On Mo, 2005-12-19 at 11:17 +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> I don't want to change how Ubuntu works. I just want to find a decent
> way for Debian to let external contributors integrate their work within
> Debian and in particular for Ubuntu developers. Because it's in the
> interest of Ubuntu deve
Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Yeah, this makes sense too. I'd like to have wrappers for doing things
> locally :
> - download source package from the good repository (without having to
> type a huge URL)
> - run most checks on it (pbuilder, piuparts, lintian, ...)
> - display analy
On So, 2005-12-18 at 17:19 +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> following the last discussion at the Debian-QA meeting on Darmstadt, it
> appears that the proposal called "Collaborative maintenance" is of generic
> interest :
> - for Debian sponsors and Debian mentors
> - for QA which may use the infras
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005, Stefan Potyra wrote:
> I'd object to this, since one of the goals would be to make it easy to review
> packages. So basically you'd need exactly one central place, where the
> current version of a sourcepackage can be found, and can be reviewed. However
> I'm not quite sure
Hi,
first of all big thanks to Raphael for your great proposal! I'd also be more
than happy to join the project.
Am Montag 19 Dezember 2005 16:25 schrieb Asheesh Laroia:
> Thanks. I agree with the Ubuntu side of this discussion that dealing with
> non-distributed svn would be a pain; I don't ha
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005, Stephan Hermann wrote:
What you are suggesting is already there. It's called "hct" and it's
keybuks child. So, seeing this in an environment of Ubuntu: I think (or
I hope) hct will be included in launchpad, and then we will include some
parts of REVU3 (I hope :)) into laun
On Mo, 2005-12-19 at 15:38 +0100, Stephan Hermann wrote:
> On Monday 19 December 2005 11:17, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > Actually, the Ubuntu people doing REVU didn't event think of using a VCS
> > because they are handling uploads of source packages in their system.
> > Adding a VCS layer has some
hi,
On Monday 19 December 2005 11:17, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> Actually, the Ubuntu people doing REVU didn't event think of using a VCS
> because they are handling uploads of source packages in their system.
> Adding a VCS layer has some advantages however : traceability of
> contributions from an
Le lundi 19 décembre 2005 à 11:04 +0100, Christoph Haas a écrit :
> > This infrastructure is seriously needed in Debian because:
> > - team maintenance with SVN is more and more popular, and a good web
> > interface above a SVN repo of Debian packages would help all those
> > teams
>
> If ther
Morning,
On Sunday 18 December 2005 17:19, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> following the last discussion at the Debian-QA meeting on Darmstadt, it
> appears that the proposal called "Collaborative maintenance" is of
> generic interest :
> - for Debian sponsors and Debian mentors
> - for QA which may use
Le lundi 19 décembre 2005 à 09:44 +0100, Lucas Nussbaum a écrit :
> First, technical issues:
>
> * Chances are very low that you will get Ubuntu people to use svn
> instead of bzr. bzr is the "official" VCS in Ubuntu, it is written in
> Python, the "official" language in Ubuntu. Making Ubuntu peop
On 18/12/05 at 17:19 +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> [ Sorry for the crosspost, but the subject is of interest to many people ]
>
> Hello everybody,
>
> following the last discussion at the Debian-QA meeting on Darmstadt, it
> appears that the proposal called "Collaborative maintenance" is of gen
Hello Raphaël, hello everybody else,
Am Montag, den 19.12.2005, 09:06 +0100 schrieb Raphael Hertzog:
> Who are the members of the Launchpad team ?
you should be able to reach them via launchpad at lists canonical com.
> I agree that integration with Launchpad would be interesting, but as
> long
Hello Daniel,
Le lundi 19 décembre 2005 à 08:24 +0100, Daniel Holbach a écrit :
> > - team maintenance with SVN is more and more popular, and a good web
> > interface above a SVN repo of Debian packages would help all those
> > teams
>
> I'd be in favour or a bzr solution, not because of rand
Hi everybody,
I'm very happy to see this effort happening.
Am Sonntag, den 18.12.2005, 17:19 +0100 schrieb Raphael Hertzog:
> This infrastructure is seriously needed in Debian because:
> - team maintenance with SVN is more and more popular, and a good web
> interface above a SVN repo of Debian
[ Sorry for the crosspost, but the subject is of interest to many people ]
Hello everybody,
following the last discussion at the Debian-QA meeting on Darmstadt, it
appears that the proposal called "Collaborative maintenance" is of generic
interest :
- for Debian sponsors and Debian mentors
- for
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