Giuseppe Sacco wrote:
Il giorno dom, 01-05-2005 alle 18:56 +0200, Jacob Sparre Andersen ha
scritto:
[...]
And what about the other users? Do you expect the users to
try to understand bug-reports in 30+ different languages
before they report an error? I expect that the result will
be that peopl
Il giorno dom, 01-05-2005 alle 18:56 +0200, Jacob Sparre Andersen ha
scritto:
[...]
>And what about the other users? Do you expect the users to
>try to understand bug-reports in 30+ different languages
>before they report an error? I expect that the result will
>be that people just give up lookin
Jean Christophe Andrà wrote:
Holger Levsen a Ãcrit :
On Saturday 30 April 2005 21:58, Jean Christophe Andrà wrote:
I can see a list of "Debian language pages" on
http://www.debian.org/international/
There is also a description on that page how to add new languages...
Yep: how to add a new
Giuseppe Sacco skrivaði:
> Il giorno dom, 01-05-2005 alle 14:50 +0200, Jacob Sparre
> Andersen ha scritto:
> > a) Most maintainers know less than 10 languages. And
> > Debian is distributed in (more than?) 30 languages.
> > This gives (as a very rough estimate) that two out
> > of th
Il giorno dom, 01-05-2005 alle 14:50 +0200, Jacob Sparre Andersen ha
scritto:
> a) Most maintainers know less than 10 languages. And
> Debian is distributed in (more than?) 30 languages.
> This gives (as a very rough estimate) that two out of
> three messages the maintainer receives w
Il giorno dom, 01-05-2005 alle 14:50 +0200, Jacob Sparre Andersen ha
scritto:
[...]
> a) Most maintainers know less than 10 languages. And
> Debian is distributed in (more than?) 30 languages.
> This gives (as a very rough estimate) that two out of
> three messages the maintainer rece
Keld Jørn Simonsen skrev:
> Jacob Sparre Andersen wrote:
> > The maintainer should _never_ get bug-reports in other
> > languages than English. (at least not in that role)
>
> Why not? Many developers know other languages than
> English, and are able to deal with bug reports in other
> languages
Giuseppe Sacco ha scritto:
> Il giorno sab, 30-04-2005 alle 13:39 +0200, Jacob Sparre
> Andersen ha scritto:
> > The maintainer should _never_ get bug-reports in other
> > languages than English. (at least not in that role)
>
> I think this may be the simplest solution: leave the user
> the poss
Giuseppe Sacco a Ãcrit :
I don't think so. We may invest more time in explaining how to
report a bug in such way that a maintainer could understand it:
. use LC_ALL=C LANG=C before running the buggy program
Imagine a program containing a few questions and
acting very differently depending on t
Holger Levsen a Ãcrit :
On Saturday 30 April 2005 21:58, Jean Christophe Andrà wrote:
I can see a list of "Debian language pages" on
http://www.debian.org/international/
There is also a description on that page how to add new languages...
Yep: how to add a new language "in Debian" in gen
On Sat, Apr 30, 2005 at 01:39:53PM +0200, Jacob Sparre Andersen wrote:
> Keld Jørn Simonsen wrote:
> > Jutta Wrage wrote:
>
> > 3. If the maintainer gets a bug report in a language that
> > is not understood by the maintainer, there should be
> > established ways of contacting a translator for the
Il giorno sab, 30-04-2005 alle 13:39 +0200, Jacob Sparre Andersen ha
scritto:
> Keld Jørn Simonsen wrote:
> > Jutta Wrage wrote:
>
> A part of the effectiveness of the Open Source community is
> how we do massively parallel testing. If we move the task
> of checking if an error in a program is al
Hi,
On Saturday 30 April 2005 21:58, Jean Christophe Andrà wrote:
> I can see a list of "Debian language pages" on
> http://www.debian.org/international/
There is also a description on that page how to add new languages...
> Anybody knows where to ask for adding a new language in this list and
>
Whoops, hit Reply and didn't correct the To header, sorry Lior. This
one to the list...
Begin forwarded message:
On 30/04/2005, at 11:23 PM, Lior Kaplan wrote:
Just a point to think about:
Where's the point where you invest too much in translating everything
to
other languages than working on t
On 30/04/2005, at 11:23 PM, Lior Kaplan wrote:
Just a point to think about:
Where's the point where you invest too much in translating everything
to
other languages than working on the original English software.
Everyone has to prioritize what they do. If you are primarily a
translator, you may w
Jutta Wrage a Ãcrit :
Other things could be (if possible): the user gets a localized system
message. Quoting will not help in an english bug report. But if this
info is left out, the maintainer would not be able to understand, what
really had happend sometimes. So if there was a database to sea
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Am Samstag, 30.04.05 um 13:39 Uhr schrieb Jacob Sparre Andersen:
- - translate everything related to bug reports
Bug-reports have a completely different time-scale than user
interface texts in the programs (much faster). Can we
handle that enormous ex
Clytie Siddall a Ãcrit :
I really don't know the solution to that, but I think a language page
for Debian is not a bad idea, as a backup.
Agreed.
I can see a list of "Debian language pages" on
http://www.debian.org/international/
Anybody knows where to ask for adding a new language in this list a
I was talking about l10n and not i18n. Debian *must have* i18n to
support all languages, but not everything should be in the local
language of each user (l10n).
Also, we can't translate everything. I mostly encounter hard time in
translating technical details of the installation software. Sometime
> But, I fully agree that people *maintaining* computers, or working in
> the computer science domain, should know technical english at the
> minimum. And I agree on what you said next too (no foreign language
> to maintainers).
People who report bugs may not always know how to fix them, but I
On Saturday 30 April 2005 13:39, Jacob Sparre Andersen wrote:
> time it is to translate (open) bug-reports, but if we can
> seed it with machine translations, then that may be enough
I just tried that with one report (English -> Dutch). The results were
hilarious, but hardly usable.
One problem i
Keld Jørn Simonsen wrote:
> Jutta Wrage wrote:
A part of the effectiveness of the Open Source community is
how we do massively parallel testing. If we move the task
of checking if an error in a program is already known from
the testers to the developers, then this system breaks. So
we have to ke
Keld JÃrn Simonsen a Ãcrit :
1. an API that takes the non-english error message and displays it in
English. many - or say - most programs are not run in English, but in
another language, in the first place. So it is difficult to write
a bug report in English, when even the error message in englishi
Thankyou, Keld, for your reply. :)
On 30/04/2005, at 6:17 PM, Keld JÃrn Simonsen wrote:
1. an API that takes the non-english error message and displays it in
English. many - or say - most programs are not run in English, but in
another language, in the first place. So it is difficult to write
a bug
On Fri, Apr 29, 2005 at 09:06:42PM +0200, Jutta Wrage wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> Would be better, to think about how to solve that problem:
>
> - - translation of www.debian.org to more languages (including the pages
> about bug reporting)
> - - translate eve
On 30/04/2005, at 4:36 AM, Jutta Wrage wrote:
Would be better, to think about how to solve that problem:
- - translation of www.debian.org to more languages (including the
pages about bug reporting)
- - translate everything related to bug reports
- - help the users to find mailing lists in there l
On 30/04/2005, at 2:08 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ca fait du bien d'avoir une rÃponse qui ne tourne pas autour du "t'as
qu'Ã apprendre l'anglais"...
Bon sang, on s'attendrai pourtant à trouver un peu plus d'intelligence
sur un liste i18n...
Exactement. Merci bien, mon ami, j'ai senti un peu so
Hi J-C :)
On 30/04/2005, at 1:38 AM, Jean Christophe Andrà wrote:
Clytie, there is already an active vietnamese FLOSS community
so-called "ViátLUG", mixing local and overseas vietnamese people (and
even not vietnamese ones: I'm on it ;-)), see
http://www.vnlinux.org/sitemoi/
There is an associat
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Am Freitag, 29.04.05 um 12:45 Uhr schrieb Lior Kaplan:
As a personal view, people should know English, especially if they use
computers. I know that's not the reality for everyone.
Sorry, but that is as silly as saying everyone sending snail mail has
t
Frans Pop a Ãcrit :
*Note*
There's a difference between debian-l10n- and debian-
lists. The first are intended for people working on translation /
localization, i.e. for development. The second are intended for users.
Given the original question from Clytie, I think a user list would be more
app
Christian Perrier a Ãcrit :
Quoting Jean Christophe Andrà ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
Dear Lior, nothing against you personnaly, but I have to strongly
disagree on this! Especially on your condition: "if they *use*
computers".
If they use computers not running Windows, I'm afraid they still have
to ha
Quoting Jean Christophe André ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> Lior Kaplan a écrit :
>
> >As a personal view, people should know English, especially if they use
> >computers. I know that's not the reality for everyone.
> >
> >
> Dear Lior, nothing against you personnaly, but I have to strongly
> disagree
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> Jean-Christophe,
>
> Ca fait du bien d'avoir une réponse qui ne tourne pas autour du "t'as
> qu'à apprendre l'anglais"...
>
> Bon sang, on s'attendrai pourtant à trouver un peu plus d'intelligence
> sur un liste i18n...
Only one contributor sug
Lior Kaplan a Ãcrit :
As a personal view, people should know English, especially if they use
computers. I know that's not the reality for everyone.
Dear Lior, nothing against you personnaly, but I have to strongly
disagree on this! Especially on your condition: "if they *use* computers".
You c
On 2005/04/29, at 19:45, Lior Kaplan wrote:
As a personal view, people should know English, especially if they use
computers. I know that's not the reality for everyone.
What ? That not everyone knows English or that not everyone uses
computers ?
It strikes me as funny that you mention that on th
On Friday 29 April 2005 18:08, Jean Christophe Andrà wrote:
> What do you think about creating a debian-l10n-vietnamese for this? I'm
> not sure there will be enougth people on it right know, but it could be
> The Right Wayâ to let people come...
*Note*
There's a difference between debian-l10n- an
Jean-Christophe,
Ca fait du bien d'avoir une rÃponse qui ne tourne pas autour du "t'as
qu'Ã apprendre l'anglais"...
Bon sang, on s'attendrai pourtant à trouver un peu plus d'intelligence
sur un liste i18n...
Jean-Christophe Helary (au Japon)
On 2005/04/30, at 1:08, Jean Christophe Andrà wrote:
Clytie Siddall a Ãcrit :
On 29/04/2005, at 8:05 PM, Frans Pop wrote:
I would suggest that supporting people who don't speak/write English is
the responsibility of the Vietnamese user community. The obvious
thing to
do is to set up a Vietnamese Debian user mailing list and encourage
users
to prese
As a personal view, people should know English, especially if they use
computers. I know that's not the reality for everyone.
I'm trying to see this in the maintainer eyes:
I can't translate every mail (to/from) the user's language. Something
bug reports include many mails between the reporter/mai
Thanks for your response, Frans.
On 29/04/2005, at 8:05 PM, Frans Pop wrote:
That would still give a maintainer extra work. Also, the working
language
for Debian _is_ English for all general lists and for the BTS.
Also, a bug submitter should _always_ first check if a bug has already
been submitt
Thanks for your reply, Luk.
On 29/04/2005, at 8:01 PM, Luk Claes wrote:
Something that could help are the translations of the website (where
you
can put this extra information like mentioning IRC channel)
I don't know the Debian site very well yet, Luk: which pages need
translating most, and how
On Friday 29 April 2005 12:24, Clytie Siddall wrote:
> Then any maintainer receiving an email to the bug-reporting address,
> which has the name of a language in the subject line, would be able to
> forward it to the translation team, or whatever other procedure was
> decided.
That would still giv
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005, Clytie Siddall wrote:
> Thankyou for your reply, Lior.
>
> On 29/04/2005, at 7:45 PM, Lior Kaplan wrote:
>
[...]
> Is it not possible to send email in Hebrew? I thought it was.
> >
> > I think we should stick with English on this. If you can't report
> > yourself, find someone
Thankyou for your reply, Lior.
On 29/04/2005, at 7:45 PM, Lior Kaplan wrote:
Think you should read a bug report in Hebrew (my lang). What would you
do as the maintainer of the package?
I'm sorry if I didn't explain that properly. My idea (and that is all
it is), is that users could be asked to put
Think you should read a bug report in Hebrew (my lang). What would you
do as the maintainer of the package?
I think we should stick with English on this. If you can't report
yourself, find someone who will report for you.
Clytie Siddall wrote:
> Hi everybody :)
>
> I've just encountered a strin
Hi everybody :)
I've just encountered a string in apt which instructs the user, should
s/he be unable to install the package and this is demonstrably a
package problem, then to report it as a bug.
How does the user who is not competent in writing English, do this?
If there is currently no failsa
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