Vote result (was: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make))

Hi, the week is over and here are the results from the vote: There were 64 participants in total. dh-make === 46 people want dh-make recommended. 27 people (+ 3 with a question mark) want dh-make suggested. 58 people voted for (at least) one of the above options. Recommending dh-make instea

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 09:13:04AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > Steve Langasek writes: > > On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 01:02:59PM +0800, Chow Loong Jin wrote: > >> Actually most users of pristine-tar in git don't have the *first* of > >> these branches. They usually have an upstream branch which is

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

Steve Langasek writes: > On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 01:02:59PM +0800, Chow Loong Jin wrote: >> Actually most users of pristine-tar in git don't have the *first* of >> these branches. They usually have an upstream branch which is >> synthesized solely from importing tarballs using git import-orig.

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 22:29:53 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 09:54:27PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > > > AIUI, most users of pristine-tar in git don't have the second of these > > > branches, which means the pristine-tar binary delta is done against the > > > upstream br

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On 19/10/2012 13:29, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 09:54:27PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: >>> AIUI, most users of pristine-tar in git don't have the second of these >>> branches, which means the pristine-tar binary delta is done against the >>> upstream branch - so each pristine-ta

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 09:54:27PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > > AIUI, most users of pristine-tar in git don't have the second of these > > branches, which means the pristine-tar binary delta is done against the > > upstream branch - so each pristine-tar blob contains all the information > > about

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On 19/10/2012 12:54, Russ Allbery wrote: > Delta compression should always take care of that, no matter how you > organize your repository. It only works if your things are bitwise similar in the first place. But does pristine-tar's delta bear any semblance to the original copy of the file? If you

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

Russ Allbery writes: > Steve Langasek writes: >> And if your packaging branch actually tracks the full source package >> contents, then it would have to track the autogenerated files, so you >> might actually be storing these files twice. > Delta compression should always take care of that, no

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

Steve Langasek writes: > The UDD branch model used in Launchpad has three branches (not counting > the pristine-tar objects): > - the upstream branch (as it exists upstream) > - a synthesized branch which merges from the upstream branch and tracks >the contents of the upstream tarball rele

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On 19/10/2012 12:35, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 08:16:50PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: >> Steve Langasek writes: > >>> The last time I complained about non-pristine-tar git package repos on >>> IRC, I was told that pristine-tar doesn't scale. So apparently in git >>> usage, f

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 08:16:50PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > Steve Langasek writes: > > The last time I complained about non-pristine-tar git package repos on > > IRC, I was told that pristine-tar doesn't scale. So apparently in git > > usage, folks haven't worked out that the unpacked upstre

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

Chow Loong Jin writes: > On 19/10/2012 11:16, Russ Allbery wrote: >> What did you mean by that last sentence? I was unable to parse it. In >> particular, I think I don't understand the difference between "tracked >> as a branch" and "track a pristine-tar delta against the upstream git >> branch

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On 19/10/2012 11:16, Russ Allbery wrote: > Steve Langasek writes: > >> The last time I complained about non-pristine-tar git package repos on >> IRC, I was told that pristine-tar doesn't scale. So apparently in git >> usage, folks haven't worked out that the unpacked upstream source should >> be

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

Steve Langasek writes: > The last time I complained about non-pristine-tar git package repos on > IRC, I was told that pristine-tar doesn't scale. So apparently in git > usage, folks haven't worked out that the unpacked upstream source should > be tracked as a branch instead of trying to track a

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 12:57:18PM +0400, Игорь Пашев wrote: > For git we have gitweb, gitolite, git-daemon, pristine-tar. > I'd like to have similar for bzr, hg and svn. There's nothing specific to git about pristine-tar. In fact, it is much more consistently used with bzr due to the top-notch b

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

Dmitrijs Ledkovs: >>> loggerhead is replacement for gitweb Tollef Fog Heen: >> Yes, we «run» it, but it's memory-hungry, slow and crash-prone. Dmitrijs Ledkovs: > Yeah, I did end up using nginx & uwsgi workers to actually host it > together with hosting bzr smart server as well. If you'd c

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On 18 October 2012 08:13, Игорь Пашев wrote: > 2012/10/18 Dmitrijs Ledkovs : >> bzr serve is the equivalent of git-daemon and it is builtin >> >> loggerhead is replacement for gitweb > > Last time I tried it, it seemed to support only one repository. Maybe you didn't configure it right? Look on a

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On 18 October 2012 07:27, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > ]] Dmitrijs Ledkovs > >> loggerhead is replacement for gitweb > > As one of the alioth admins, I'd like to contest this statement. > > loggerhead is a replacement for gitweb in the same way that crawling is > a replacement for sprinting. > > Yes,

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

2012/10/18 Dmitrijs Ledkovs : > bzr serve is the equivalent of git-daemon and it is builtin > > loggerhead is replacement for gitweb Last time I tried it, it seemed to support only one repository. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe".

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

]] Dmitrijs Ledkovs > loggerhead is replacement for gitweb As one of the alioth admins, I'd like to contest this statement. loggerhead is a replacement for gitweb in the same way that crawling is a replacement for sprinting. Yes, we «run» it, but it's memory-hungry, slow and crash-prone. It a

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 10:16:35PM +, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > The section to which you seem to be referring is relevant > specifically to "image and icon files in Launchpad." If you replace > those with your own artwork or some other released under a > compatible license and respect any other r

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On 17 October 2012 09:57, Игорь Пашев wrote: > For git we have gitweb, gitolite, git-daemon, pristine-tar. > I'd like to have similar for bzr, hg and svn. > bzr-builddeb gives pristine-tar support bzr serve is the equivalent of git-daemon and it is builtin loggerhead is replacement for gitweb

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On 17 October 2012 22:55, Philipp Kern wrote: > Paul, > > am Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 05:48:39PM -0400 hast du folgendes geschrieben: >> > With the danger of being sued if you put up the result onto the public >> > interwebs. >> Could you please expand on that? Logo / trademark reasons or license >> i

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On 2012-10-17 23:55:08 +0200 (+0200), Philipp Kern wrote: > am Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 05:48:39PM -0400 hast du folgendes geschrieben: > > > With the danger of being sued if you put up the result onto the public > > > interwebs. > > > > Could you please expand on that? Logo / trademark reasons or li

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

Paul, am Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 05:48:39PM -0400 hast du folgendes geschrieben: > > With the danger of being sued if you put up the result onto the public > > interwebs. > Could you please expand on that? Logo / trademark reasons or license > issues? it's not very hard to find https://dev.launchpa

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 11:43:36PM +0200, Philipp Kern wrote: > On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 11:19:01AM +0200, Daniel Holbach wrote: > > On 17.10.2012 11:13, Игорь Пашев wrote: > > > 2012/10/17 Hideki Yamane : > > >> No, LP is good website for development with collaboration. > > > Can I have my own LP,

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 11:19:01AM +0200, Daniel Holbach wrote: > On 17.10.2012 11:13, Игорь Пашев wrote: > > 2012/10/17 Hideki Yamane : > >> No, LP is good website for development with collaboration. > > Can I have my own LP, please? > https://dev.launchpad.net/Running should help you with that.

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 13:13:42 +0400 Игорь Пашев wrote: > Can I have my own LP, please? Well, you can get source code. see https://dev.launchpad.net/Trunk # I just annoyed heavily relying on LP as my previous mails in thread. However, it looks good for me. -- Regards, Hideki Yamane h

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

Hello, On 17.10.2012 11:13, Игорь Пашев wrote: > 2012/10/17 Hideki Yamane : >> No, LP is good website for development with collaboration. > > Can I have my own LP, please? https://dev.launchpad.net/Running should help you with that. Have a great day, Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debia

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

2012/10/17 Hideki Yamane : > No, LP is good website for development with collaboration. Can I have my own LP, please? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 12:57:18 +0400 Игорь Пашев wrote: > For git we have gitweb, gitolite, git-daemon, pristine-tar. > I'd like to have similar for bzr, hg and svn. > > It's not about technology, but about collaboration. No, LP is good website for development with collaboration. (A workflow is

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

For git we have gitweb, gitolite, git-daemon, pristine-tar. I'd like to have similar for bzr, hg and svn. It's not about technology, but about collaboration. That's why I prefer git. 2012/10/17 Marc Haber : > On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:31:00 -0700, Steve Langasek > wrote: >>The popularity of subver

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:31:00 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: >The popularity of subversion >for packaging is a measure of inertia and/or ignorance, not of the >appropriateness of the tool. I find this attitute improperly offensive. The choice of tool is the decision of the maintainer, and subversion

Re: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

On 17 October 2012 03:05, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > On Oct 17, 2012, at 1:03 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > >> On Oct 12, 2012, at 02:22 PM, Benjamin Drung wrote: >> >>> How does bzr-builddeb depend on Launchpad? bzr is integrated into >>> Launchpad, but you can use bzr without Launchpad as e

Re: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 04:05:10AM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > On Oct 17, 2012, at 1:03 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > > On Oct 12, 2012, at 02:22 PM, Benjamin Drung wrote: > > > >> How does bzr-builddeb depend on Launchpad? bzr is integrated into > >> Launchpad, but you can use bzr w

Re: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

On Oct 17, 2012, at 1:03 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Oct 12, 2012, at 02:22 PM, Benjamin Drung wrote: > >> How does bzr-builddeb depend on Launchpad? bzr is integrated into >> Launchpad, but you can use bzr without Launchpad as every other DVCS. > > $ bzr branch debianlp:mypackage > > is one

Re: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

On Oct 12, 2012, at 02:22 PM, Benjamin Drung wrote: >How does bzr-builddeb depend on Launchpad? bzr is integrated into >Launchpad, but you can use bzr without Launchpad as every other DVCS. $ bzr branch debianlp:mypackage is one way to use Launchpad with bzr for Debian effectively. It's certain

Re: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

On Oct 12, 2012, at 09:13 PM, Hideki Yamane wrote: > bzr-builddeb is, well, it seems that is useful in UDD (Ubuntu Distributed > Development, as Ubuntu packaging guide says) way, but now it heavily relies > on Launchpad in my point of view. And, packaging-dev can specify > vendor-specific Recommen

Re: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

Le Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 12:06:11PM +0200, Benjamin Drung a écrit : > Am Freitag, den 12.10.2012, 10:04 +0800 schrieb Paul Wise: > > https://dudle.inf.tu-dresden.de/Popularity_of_bzr-builddeb_and_dh-make/ > > The poll will be closed in one week (if enough votes are collected). Hello everybody, i

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

Craig Small writes: > debhelper has gotten smarter with every release and gradually what > dh-make has had to do is getting reduced. I'm not sure we're at the > point of removing dh-make (it's an open question; I'm really not sure) > but perhaps we will be there one day. As it was written to sol

Re: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

On 12 October 2012 13:52, Hideki Yamane wrote: > On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:46:41 +0200 > Jelmer Vernooij wrote: >> The workflow doesn't have to involve Launchpad either - I'm not using >> Launchpad at all for my Debian packages. Just because the majority of >> Bazaar users host their branches on Lau

Re: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:46:41 +0200 Jelmer Vernooij wrote: > The workflow doesn't have to involve Launchpad either - I'm not using > Launchpad at all for my Debian packages. Just because the majority of > Bazaar users host their branches on Launchpad, doesn't mean that a > Bazaar workflow has to in

Re: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

On Fri, 2012-10-12 at 21:40 +0900, Hideki Yamane wrote: > On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:22:06 +0200 > Benjamin Drung wrote: > > How does bzr-builddeb depend on Launchpad? bzr is integrated into > > Launchpad, but you can use bzr without Launchpad as every other DVCS. > > Just because I don't imagine us

Re: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:22:06 +0200 Benjamin Drung wrote: > How does bzr-builddeb depend on Launchpad? bzr is integrated into > Launchpad, but you can use bzr without Launchpad as every other DVCS. Just because I don't imagine use bzr without LP ;) Yes, it can be used as you've pointed out, but

Re: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

On Fri, 2012-10-12 at 21:13 +0900, Hideki Yamane wrote: > On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 12:06:11 +0200 > Benjamin Drung wrote: > > I have setup a poll for it: > > https://dudle.inf.tu-dresden.de/Popularity_of_bzr-builddeb_and_dh-make/ > > Thanks! :) voted. > > My opinion is as BTSed, > - dh-make is s

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

Hello! Игорь Пашев has written on Friday, 12 October, at 12:29: >dh-make should be deprecated :-) I don't agree with that. dh-make is very useful in some cases. And I have created a lot of own packages already, some of them without dh-make but I know good sides of it. Andriy. -- To UN

Re: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 12:06:11PM +0200, Benjamin Drung wrote: > Thanks. > > I have setup a poll for it: > > https://dudle.inf.tu-dresden.de/Popularity_of_bzr-builddeb_and_dh-make/ I voted, thanks! Cheers, Adrian signature.asc Description: Digital signature

Re: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

Am Freitag, den 12.10.2012, 21:13 +0900 schrieb Hideki Yamane: > - bzr-builddeb is, well, it seems that is useful in UDD (Ubuntu Distributed > Development, as Ubuntu packaging guide says) way, but now it heavily > relies on Launchpad in my point of view. How does bzr-builddeb depend on

Re: Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

Hi, On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 12:06:11 +0200 Benjamin Drung wrote: > I have setup a poll for it: > https://dudle.inf.tu-dresden.de/Popularity_of_bzr-builddeb_and_dh-make/ Thanks! :) voted. My opinion is as BTSed, - dh-make is still usable for 1st step. Maybe experienced/skilled developer don

Poll (was: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make)

Am Freitag, den 12.10.2012, 10:04 +0800 schrieb Paul Wise: > On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 5:35 AM, Benjamin Drung wrote: > > > A poll is a good idea. Can you recommend a site that allows setting up a > > poll? > > The Debian secretary was at one point going to setup devotee for this > sort of thing, d

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 04:03:53PM +1100, Craig Small wrote: > Steve with his years of packaging experience is not probably a good > sample of one to base this upon. I'd be curious to see if newer > packagers use it or not. I don't bother with dh-make anymore. Like Steve the (mixed-case! Argh!) .e

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

dh-make should be deprecated :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CALL-Q8yL-UtZ9rDMqkAQim9wZJRM8Bea1=tsyj6bub_t+pt...@mail.gmail.com

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 16:03:53 +1100 Craig Small wrote: > On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 02:38:46PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > > dh-make isn't so relevant now that debhelper 7 exists. cp > > /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny debian/rules && dch > > --create, manually create debian/control

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012, Craig Small wrote: > Steve with his years of packaging experience is not probably a good > sample of one to base this upon. I'd be curious to see if newer > packagers use it or not. I still use dh-make from time to time. Mainly to get a template for debian/control and debian/c

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 02:38:46PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > dh-make isn't so relevant now that debhelper 7 exists. cp > /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny debian/rules && dch > --create, manually create debian/control and debian/copyright, and that's > about it. dh-make comes fro

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 5:35 AM, Benjamin Drung wrote: > A poll is a good idea. Can you recommend a site that allows setting up a > poll? The Debian secretary was at one point going to setup devotee for this sort of thing, don't think that ever happened though. If you want some FSAAS (free-softw

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:57:55PM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 02:38:46PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > > bzr is the fourth most popular version control system in Debian according to > > . If you're going to demote >

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

Am Donnerstag, den 11.10.2012, 14:38 -0700 schrieb Steve Langasek: > Hi Benjamin, > > On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:38:08PM +0200, Benjamin Drung wrote: > > How popular are bzr-builddeb and dh-make in Debian? The current > > situation is that packaging-dev recommends bzr-builddeb and suggests > > dh-

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 02:38:46PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > bzr is the fourth most popular version control system in Debian according to > . If you're going to demote > bzr-builddeb (which doesn't bother me), I think you should also be demoting > sv

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

Hi Benjamin, On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:38:08PM +0200, Benjamin Drung wrote: > How popular are bzr-builddeb and dh-make in Debian? The current > situation is that packaging-dev recommends bzr-builddeb and suggests > dh-make. It was requested to drop bzr-builddeb from Recommends and add > dh-make [

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

A poll is a good idea. Can you recommend a site that allows setting up a poll? Am Donnerstag, den 11.10.2012, 23:29 +0200 schrieb Matthias Klumpp: > Hi! > Have you considered making a poll for this? Because everyone will tell > you a different oppinion... > For me, I think: bzr-builddeb is specifi

Re: Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

Hi! Have you considered making a poll for this? Because everyone will tell you a different oppinion... For me, I think: bzr-builddeb is specific to Bzr, if you don't use Bzr, it is useless. Instead, dh_make can be used to generate Debian templates quickly, so it might be useful for more people, eve

Popularity of bzr-builddeb and dh-make

Hi, How popular are bzr-builddeb and dh-make in Debian? The current situation is that packaging-dev recommends bzr-builddeb and suggests dh-make. It was requested to drop bzr-builddeb from Recommends and add dh-make [1]. The recommended packages of packaging-dev should be recommended by most of th