Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation

2003-08-28 Thread Christian Perrier
Quoting Manoj Srivastava ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > No one is holding a gun to your head. You are a volunteer, and > can't be forced to NMU. You are a volunteer and can't be forced to fix bugs... :-)

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation

2003-08-28 Thread Joel Baker
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 07:37:12PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote: > * Joel Baker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > This argument would carry more weight with me if it were possible to either > > A) test the upload *completely* before making it (IE, catch all possible > > FTBFS bugs or other quirks that h

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation

2003-08-27 Thread Anthony Towns
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 09:01:26PM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote: > Quite. But I believe that doing NMUs *does* improve the overall quality > of Debian, and I believe that putting NMUers on the spot over bugs they > didn't cause would be a sufficient deterrent that Debian would suffer > for it. H

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation

2003-08-27 Thread Steve Langasek
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 02:05:15PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:46:41 -0500, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > This is the sticking point, I think. Are we talking about resolving > > the possible problems *from* NMUing, or are we talking about > > resolving

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-27 Thread Steve Langasek
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 02:57:28PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote: > * Steve Langasek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > Holding NMUers accountable for the quality of their uploads: yes. > > Holding NMUers accountable for the quality of the maintainer's package: no. > I'm happy to clarify my position if y

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation

2003-08-27 Thread Stephen Frost
* Joel Baker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > This argument would carry more weight with me if it were possible to either > A) test the upload *completely* before making it (IE, catch all possible > FTBFS bugs or other quirks that happen when dealing with the build daemons, > many of which even a sane

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation

2003-08-27 Thread Joel Baker
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 02:05:15PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:46:41 -0500, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > > Holding NMUers accountable for the quality of their uploads: yes. > > Quite. If your upload caused the situation to deteriorate, > whether

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-27 Thread Sven Luther
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 11:46:41AM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 12:31:30AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 09:35:08AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > > It only means that someone > > > wanting to do an NMU for some probably minor, not really touching

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation

2003-08-27 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:46:41 -0500, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > This is the sticking point, I think. Are we talking about resolving > the possible problems *from* NMUing, or are we talking about > resolving any problems that happen to show up after the NMU? I How can one

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-27 Thread Stephen Frost
* Steve Langasek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Holding NMUers accountable for the quality of their uploads: yes. > Holding NMUers accountable for the quality of the maintainer's package: no. I'm happy to clarify my position if you aren't clear on it and would rather you do that then make misleading

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-27 Thread Steve Langasek
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 12:31:30AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 09:35:08AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > It only means that someone > > wanting to do an NMU for some probably minor, not really touching the > > package, will not do it because he don't want that responsaibili

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-27 Thread Anthony Towns
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 09:35:08AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > It only means that someone > wanting to do an NMU for some probably minor, not really touching the > package, will not do it because he don't want that responsaibility or > more probably cannot assume it. That's the correct response.

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-27 Thread Christian Perrier
Quoting Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > with not only translating abilities (in fact I'm even rather bad at > translating). That's fine, I'm rather bad at programming... :-)

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-27 Thread Martin Quinson
On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 07:28:03PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 10:26:32AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > Let's say i do translataion work, for that i have to build the package, > > and notice that it FTBFS (at least on some obscure arch or something). I > > then fill a FTBF

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-27 Thread Sven Luther
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 02:31:51PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 09:28:02PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > I agree if the FTBFS comes from something the NMUer did, then yes, it is > > broken, but if it comes from general bad shape of the packages, then the > > responsability

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-26 Thread Anthony Towns
On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 09:28:02PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > I agree if the FTBFS comes from something the NMUer did, then yes, it is > broken, but if it comes from general bad shape of the packages, then the > responsability is to the package maintainer It's fine that you disagree. You're welco

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-26 Thread Sven Luther
On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 07:28:03PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 10:26:32AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > Let's say i do translataion work, for that i have to build the package, > > and notice that it FTBFS (at least on some obscure arch or something). I > > then fill a FTBF

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-26 Thread Anthony Towns
On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 10:26:32AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > Let's say i do translataion work, for that i have to build the package, > and notice that it FTBFS (at least on some obscure arch or something). I > then fill a FTBFS bug report, thus liberating me of the responsability > you want to tr

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-26 Thread Christian Perrier
Quoting Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > And i i try to build a random package from source, and it FTBFS, am i > going to be responsible for fixing it if i fill the FTBFS bug report ? For sure, no. In the example previously given, I did generate the FTBFS myself by uploading a NMU. I indirectly

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-26 Thread Sven Luther
On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 10:10:31AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote: > Quoting Anthony Towns (aj@azure.humbug.org.au): > > > > Tagging the bug help is a good idea, but if it doesn't work the > > responsibility is *still* the NMUer's to find some way that does. Not > > the community's, not the list'

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-26 Thread Sven Luther
On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 02:53:50PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 05:34:54PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:10:19PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:22:16AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote: > > > > Quoting Martin Quinson ([

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-26 Thread Christian Perrier
Quoting Anthony Towns (aj@azure.humbug.org.au): > Tagging the bug help is a good idea, but if it doesn't work the > responsibility is *still* the NMUer's to find some way that does. Not > the community's, not the list's, not the release manager's: the NMUer's. I undoubtly agree with that point..

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-26 Thread Christian Perrier
Quoting Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > Earlier if the french team reachs its goal of completely translated package > install in sarge, since we only translate po-debconf files, and do (read We won't.. :-) For po-debconf switch bug reports, Michel Grentzinger is at letter "p" going up in t

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-26 Thread Anthony Towns
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 05:34:54PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:10:19PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:22:16AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote: > > > Quoting Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > > > > > binary-only uploads are clearly not the sa

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Anthony Towns
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 03:15:25PM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote: > Quoting Anthony Towns (aj@azure.humbug.org.au): > > It's the NMUer's responsibility to fix these bugs too. > > > (One possible way of handling this, might be to have translation people > > support each other by having random non-

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Anthony Towns
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 04:58:31PM +0300, Richard Braakman wrote: > On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 09:30:19PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote: > > Just about everyone else appears to feel all they should care about is > > the changes they make in their NMU instead of actually caring about the > > package and t

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Martin Quinson
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 01:19:57PM +0100, Mark Brown wrote: > On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 01:22:03PM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote: > > > With the former (and still widely used) method for translating debconf > > Is anyone maintaining statistics on how widely used the original Debconf > scheme is?

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Sven Luther
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:10:19PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:22:16AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote: > > Quoting Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > > > > binary-only uploads are clearly not the same. > > > Ah ? And why ? Translation changes do not interfer with the

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Steve Langasek
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 11:56:33AM +0100, Mark Brown wrote: > On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 11:08:52PM +0200, Martin Quinson wrote: > > Well, either you were lucky, or you use good and well configurated mail > > tools. But if my language did need a funky encoding, I would not let my work > > depend of s

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Richard Braakman
On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 09:30:19PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote: > Just about everyone else appears to feel all they should care about is > the changes they make in their NMU instead of actually caring about the > package and the distribution. There's this feeling of "not my problem". Someone who h

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Richard Braakman
On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 06:56:00PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote: > You've obviously not been paying very much attention at all then. > You should have a pretty good idea if the package is unmaintained or > not prior to doing an NMU. If it's not then you're uploading a package > which fixes some spec

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Christian Perrier
Quoting Anthony Towns (aj@azure.humbug.org.au): > New uploads will often trigger dormant bugs due to changes in the > toolchain, too. If a package hasn't been uploaded since gcc-2.95 was > current, a new upload built with gcc-3.3 will often not work even if the > only source changes were some gram

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Anthony Towns
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:22:16AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote: > Quoting Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > > > binary-only uploads are clearly not the same. > > Ah ? And why ? Translation changes do not interfer with the source code of > > the package neither. > Hummm. Technically speaking,

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Christian Perrier
Quoting Mark Brown ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > > With the former (and still widely used) method for translating debconf > > Is anyone maintaining statistics on how widely used the original Debconf > scheme is? I'm not aware of such statistics. We have the total number of strings in the new schemes.

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Mark Brown
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 01:22:03PM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote: > With the former (and still widely used) method for translating debconf Is anyone maintaining statistics on how widely used the original Debconf scheme is? -- "You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fev

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Christian Perrier
Quoting Mark Brown ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > As a data point all the translations I've been sent since I can remember > (certainly since I converted my packages to use po-debconf) have arrived > as MIME attachments to bugs. If there are any problems with their > encoding they certainly haven't been

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Christian Perrier
Quoting Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > Thanks for your time. I do really appreciate the time you're investing in a > discussion which is vital for my presonal goals inside Debian, but clearly > not for yours. I think we cannot say this from Stephen's mail. We clearly disagree on NMU/repons

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Mark Brown
On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 11:08:52PM +0200, Martin Quinson wrote: > Well, either you were lucky, or you use good and well configurated mail > tools. But if my language did need a funky encoding, I would not let my work > depend of such conditions. Don't get me wrong. I mean that in such > condition,

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Christian Perrier
Quoting Stephen Frost ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > Just about everyone else appears to feel all they should care about is > the changes they make in their NMU instead of actually caring about the > package and the distribution. There's this feeling of "not my problem". I have to correct here : when co

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Martin Quinson
On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 09:30:19PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote: > * Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 01:38:33PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote: > > > > This hasn't got anything to do with NMU's. > > > > With NMU in general, maybe not. But I see this as rather relev

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread David Weinehall
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 08:43:55AM +0200, Andreas Metzler wrote: > Stephen Frost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > * Andreas Metzler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > >> Parse error. I cannot see a connection between answer and question. > > > Life's a beach. There's all of one line in the developer's re

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Andreas Metzler
Stephen Frost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > * Andreas Metzler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: >> Parse error. I cannot see a connection between answer and question. > Life's a beach. There's all of one line in the developer's reference > which talks about your responsibilities when doing an NMU: > "Fol

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-25 Thread Christian Perrier
Quoting Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > > binary-only uploads are clearly not the same. > > Ah ? And why ? Translation changes do not interfer with the source code of > the package neither. Hummm. Technically speaking, it does.. :-). With the source code of the packagenot with the upst

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-24 Thread Stephen Frost
* Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 01:38:33PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote: > > I'm not special caseing translations, nor do I feel they should be. I'm > > referring to NMU's in general. > > Maybe that's the point. Christian won't handle the same way non translati

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-24 Thread Stephen Frost
* Andreas Metzler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Parse error. I cannot see a connection between answer and question. Life's a beach. There's all of one line in the developer's reference which talks about your responsibilities when doing an NMU: "Follow what happens, you're responsible for any bug t

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-24 Thread Martin Quinson
On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 01:38:33PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote: > * Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 12:28:55PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote: > > Dude, translators already more than this. When I translate a package, I > > register to its PTS to check that my trans

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-24 Thread Andreas Metzler
Stephen Frost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] >> > Then you shouldn't be doing an NMU on it. When you NMU something you >> > take responsibility for it temporairly until the maintainer gets back. >> Could you point the poor stupid monkeys we are to the relevant part of the >> policy or developer

Re: NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-24 Thread Stephen Frost
* Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 12:28:55PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote: > > Except what you don't realize is that one should never, ever, ever just > > NMU and then forget about the package. If you do an NMU then you need > > to make sure it worked, follow the

NMUs applying sleeping wishlist bugs about translation (was something else)

2003-08-24 Thread Martin Quinson
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 12:28:55PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote: > * Christian Perrier ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > Quoting Stephen Frost ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > > > > > > I, for sure, cannot hijack any package for which nothing has been done > > > > for translation related bugs. I would quickly en