Quoting Manoj Srivastava ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> No one is holding a gun to your head. You are a volunteer, and
> can't be forced to NMU.
You are a volunteer and can't be forced to fix bugs... :-)
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 07:37:12PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> * Joel Baker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > This argument would carry more weight with me if it were possible to either
> > A) test the upload *completely* before making it (IE, catch all possible
> > FTBFS bugs or other quirks that h
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 09:01:26PM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
> Quite. But I believe that doing NMUs *does* improve the overall quality
> of Debian, and I believe that putting NMUers on the spot over bugs they
> didn't cause would be a sufficient deterrent that Debian would suffer
> for it.
H
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 02:05:15PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:46:41 -0500, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > This is the sticking point, I think. Are we talking about resolving
> > the possible problems *from* NMUing, or are we talking about
> > resolving
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 02:57:28PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> * Steve Langasek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > Holding NMUers accountable for the quality of their uploads: yes.
> > Holding NMUers accountable for the quality of the maintainer's package: no.
> I'm happy to clarify my position if y
* Joel Baker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> This argument would carry more weight with me if it were possible to either
> A) test the upload *completely* before making it (IE, catch all possible
> FTBFS bugs or other quirks that happen when dealing with the build daemons,
> many of which even a sane
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 02:05:15PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:46:41 -0500, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> > Holding NMUers accountable for the quality of their uploads: yes.
>
> Quite. If your upload caused the situation to deteriorate,
> whether
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 11:46:41AM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 12:31:30AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 09:35:08AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > It only means that someone
> > > wanting to do an NMU for some probably minor, not really touching
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:46:41 -0500, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> This is the sticking point, I think. Are we talking about resolving
> the possible problems *from* NMUing, or are we talking about
> resolving any problems that happen to show up after the NMU? I
How can one
* Steve Langasek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Holding NMUers accountable for the quality of their uploads: yes.
> Holding NMUers accountable for the quality of the maintainer's package: no.
I'm happy to clarify my position if you aren't clear on it and would
rather you do that then make misleading
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 12:31:30AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 09:35:08AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > It only means that someone
> > wanting to do an NMU for some probably minor, not really touching the
> > package, will not do it because he don't want that responsaibili
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 09:35:08AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> It only means that someone
> wanting to do an NMU for some probably minor, not really touching the
> package, will not do it because he don't want that responsaibility or
> more probably cannot assume it.
That's the correct response.
Quoting Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> with not only translating abilities (in fact I'm even rather bad at
> translating).
That's fine, I'm rather bad at programming... :-)
On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 07:28:03PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 10:26:32AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > Let's say i do translataion work, for that i have to build the package,
> > and notice that it FTBFS (at least on some obscure arch or something). I
> > then fill a FTBF
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 02:31:51PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 09:28:02PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > I agree if the FTBFS comes from something the NMUer did, then yes, it is
> > broken, but if it comes from general bad shape of the packages, then the
> > responsability
On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 09:28:02PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> I agree if the FTBFS comes from something the NMUer did, then yes, it is
> broken, but if it comes from general bad shape of the packages, then the
> responsability is to the package maintainer
It's fine that you disagree. You're welco
On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 07:28:03PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 10:26:32AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > Let's say i do translataion work, for that i have to build the package,
> > and notice that it FTBFS (at least on some obscure arch or something). I
> > then fill a FTBF
On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 10:26:32AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> Let's say i do translataion work, for that i have to build the package,
> and notice that it FTBFS (at least on some obscure arch or something). I
> then fill a FTBFS bug report, thus liberating me of the responsability
> you want to tr
Quoting Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> And i i try to build a random package from source, and it FTBFS, am i
> going to be responsible for fixing it if i fill the FTBFS bug report ?
For sure, no. In the example previously given, I did generate the
FTBFS myself by uploading a NMU. I indirectly
On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 10:10:31AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
> Quoting Anthony Towns (aj@azure.humbug.org.au):
>
>
> > Tagging the bug help is a good idea, but if it doesn't work the
> > responsibility is *still* the NMUer's to find some way that does. Not
> > the community's, not the list'
On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 02:53:50PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 05:34:54PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:10:19PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:22:16AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
> > > > Quoting Martin Quinson ([
Quoting Anthony Towns (aj@azure.humbug.org.au):
> Tagging the bug help is a good idea, but if it doesn't work the
> responsibility is *still* the NMUer's to find some way that does. Not
> the community's, not the list's, not the release manager's: the NMUer's.
I undoubtly agree with that point..
Quoting Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> Earlier if the french team reachs its goal of completely translated package
> install in sarge, since we only translate po-debconf files, and do (read
We won't.. :-)
For po-debconf switch bug reports, Michel Grentzinger is at letter "p"
going up in t
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 05:34:54PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:10:19PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:22:16AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
> > > Quoting Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > > > > binary-only uploads are clearly not the sa
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 03:15:25PM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
> Quoting Anthony Towns (aj@azure.humbug.org.au):
> > It's the NMUer's responsibility to fix these bugs too.
>
> > (One possible way of handling this, might be to have translation people
> > support each other by having random non-
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 04:58:31PM +0300, Richard Braakman wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 09:30:19PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> > Just about everyone else appears to feel all they should care about is
> > the changes they make in their NMU instead of actually caring about the
> > package and t
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 01:19:57PM +0100, Mark Brown wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 01:22:03PM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
>
> > With the former (and still widely used) method for translating debconf
>
> Is anyone maintaining statistics on how widely used the original Debconf
> scheme is?
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:10:19PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:22:16AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
> > Quoting Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > > > binary-only uploads are clearly not the same.
> > > Ah ? And why ? Translation changes do not interfer with the
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 11:56:33AM +0100, Mark Brown wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 11:08:52PM +0200, Martin Quinson wrote:
> > Well, either you were lucky, or you use good and well configurated mail
> > tools. But if my language did need a funky encoding, I would not let my work
> > depend of s
On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 09:30:19PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> Just about everyone else appears to feel all they should care about is
> the changes they make in their NMU instead of actually caring about the
> package and the distribution. There's this feeling of "not my problem".
Someone who h
On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 06:56:00PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> You've obviously not been paying very much attention at all then.
> You should have a pretty good idea if the package is unmaintained or
> not prior to doing an NMU. If it's not then you're uploading a package
> which fixes some spec
Quoting Anthony Towns (aj@azure.humbug.org.au):
> New uploads will often trigger dormant bugs due to changes in the
> toolchain, too. If a package hasn't been uploaded since gcc-2.95 was
> current, a new upload built with gcc-3.3 will often not work even if the
> only source changes were some gram
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:22:16AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
> Quoting Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > > binary-only uploads are clearly not the same.
> > Ah ? And why ? Translation changes do not interfer with the source code of
> > the package neither.
> Hummm. Technically speaking,
Quoting Mark Brown ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > With the former (and still widely used) method for translating debconf
>
> Is anyone maintaining statistics on how widely used the original Debconf
> scheme is?
I'm not aware of such statistics.
We have the total number of strings in the new schemes.
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 01:22:03PM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
> With the former (and still widely used) method for translating debconf
Is anyone maintaining statistics on how widely used the original Debconf
scheme is?
--
"You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fev
Quoting Mark Brown ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> As a data point all the translations I've been sent since I can remember
> (certainly since I converted my packages to use po-debconf) have arrived
> as MIME attachments to bugs. If there are any problems with their
> encoding they certainly haven't been
Quoting Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> Thanks for your time. I do really appreciate the time you're investing in a
> discussion which is vital for my presonal goals inside Debian, but clearly
> not for yours.
I think we cannot say this from Stephen's mail. We clearly disagree on
NMU/repons
On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 11:08:52PM +0200, Martin Quinson wrote:
> Well, either you were lucky, or you use good and well configurated mail
> tools. But if my language did need a funky encoding, I would not let my work
> depend of such conditions. Don't get me wrong. I mean that in such
> condition,
Quoting Stephen Frost ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> Just about everyone else appears to feel all they should care about is
> the changes they make in their NMU instead of actually caring about the
> package and the distribution. There's this feeling of "not my problem".
I have to correct here : when co
On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 09:30:19PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> * Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 01:38:33PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
>
> > > This hasn't got anything to do with NMU's.
> >
> > With NMU in general, maybe not. But I see this as rather relev
On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 08:43:55AM +0200, Andreas Metzler wrote:
> Stephen Frost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > * Andreas Metzler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >> Parse error. I cannot see a connection between answer and question.
>
> > Life's a beach. There's all of one line in the developer's re
Stephen Frost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * Andreas Metzler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>> Parse error. I cannot see a connection between answer and question.
> Life's a beach. There's all of one line in the developer's reference
> which talks about your responsibilities when doing an NMU:
> "Fol
Quoting Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > binary-only uploads are clearly not the same.
>
> Ah ? And why ? Translation changes do not interfer with the source code of
> the package neither.
Hummm. Technically speaking, it does.. :-). With the source code of
the packagenot with the upst
* Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 01:38:33PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> > I'm not special caseing translations, nor do I feel they should be. I'm
> > referring to NMU's in general.
>
> Maybe that's the point. Christian won't handle the same way non translati
* Andreas Metzler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Parse error. I cannot see a connection between answer and question.
Life's a beach. There's all of one line in the developer's reference
which talks about your responsibilities when doing an NMU:
"Follow what happens, you're responsible for any bug t
On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 01:38:33PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> * Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 12:28:55PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> > Dude, translators already more than this. When I translate a package, I
> > register to its PTS to check that my trans
Stephen Frost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
>> > Then you shouldn't be doing an NMU on it. When you NMU something you
>> > take responsibility for it temporairly until the maintainer gets back.
>> Could you point the poor stupid monkeys we are to the relevant part of the
>> policy or developer
* Martin Quinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 12:28:55PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> > Except what you don't realize is that one should never, ever, ever just
> > NMU and then forget about the package. If you do an NMU then you need
> > to make sure it worked, follow the
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 12:28:55PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> * Christian Perrier ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > Quoting Stephen Frost ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> >
> > > > I, for sure, cannot hijack any package for which nothing has been done
> > > > for translation related bugs. I would quickly en
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