On 10/1/19 9:24 PM, Samuel Henrique wrote:
> and the centralization
> of the discussion in a "tree like" structure are things that I miss a
> lot here.
Are you saying that you're reading -devel without the "tree like"
display of the thread? Outch! I'd strongly suggest using a better client
if your
On 9/19/19 6:30 AM, Jerome BENOIT wrote:
>
>
> On 19/09/2019 00:46, Sam Hartman wrote:
>
>> Init System Diversity
>> =
>
>> So perhaps sysvinit and init scripts have had their chance and it is
>> time to move on. We could move away from init scripts as the default
>> re
On 10/1/19 5:06 PM, Enrico Zini wrote:
> If I say something that 1000 people like and one person hates, the
> net visible effect in my inbox is probably one angry reply.
I very much agree with that. Which is why I don't feel comfortable when
Sam making summaries and conclusions of discussions we h
Sorry about the lateness here, been busy...
On Tue, Oct 01, 2019 at 12:22:34PM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> > "Sean" == Sean Whitton writes:
>
> Sean> You might separate your detailed, narrative descriptions of
> Sean> how discussions went from what you took away from the
> Sean>
Hello,
On Sat 05 Oct 2019 at 10:13PM +01, Samuel Henrique wrote:
> I don't understand the argument of it being a social problem, isn't our
> own constitution a technical solution to a social problem?
Hmm, I think that "social problem" is not what I meant.
It's difficult to communicate effective
On 2019-10-05 22:13:49 +0100 (+0100), Samuel Henrique wrote:
[...]
> And the problems with relying on the tree view of email subthreads
> have already been exposed here as it depends on people formatting
> the subthread in a specific way, which does always happens.
[...]
Not necessarily. For me at
On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 14:51, Antonio Terceiro wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 01:37:58PM +0100, Samuel Henrique wrote:
> > On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 10:48, Mathias Behrle wrote:
> >
> > > ...BTW no discussion tool can help in automating
> > > separate discussion threads when the topic changes.
> >
Hello,
On Wed 02 Oct 2019 at 11:30AM +02, Mathias Behrle wrote:
> first of all it would help a lot to identify when a new subthread is
> openend and make this visible in the usual way (like this mail does). It would
> increase a lot(!) the readability of Debian lists where this is an
> often enco
Hello,
On Tue 01 Oct 2019 at 12:22PM -04, Sam Hartman wrote:
>> "Sean" == Sean Whitton writes:
>
> Sean> You might separate your detailed, narrative descriptions of
> Sean> how discussions went from what you took away from the
> Sean> discussions. You could either drop the forme
On 2019-10-02 10:51:22 -0300 (-0300), Antonio Terceiro wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 01:37:58PM +0100, Samuel Henrique wrote:
> > On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 10:48, Mathias Behrle wrote:
> >
> > > ...BTW no discussion tool can help in automating
> > > separate discussion threads when the topic chang
On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 01:37:58PM +0100, Samuel Henrique wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 10:48, Mathias Behrle wrote:
>
> > ...BTW no discussion tool can help in automating
> > separate discussion threads when the topic changes.
> >
>
> They can, I think reddit and hackernews are good at this.
>
Samuel Henrique writes:
> On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 10:48, Mathias Behrle wrote:
>
>> ...BTW no discussion tool can help in automating
>> separate discussion threads when the topic changes.
>>
>
> They can, I think reddit and hackernews are good at this.
> That's the "tree-like" structure that I men
On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 10:48, Mathias Behrle wrote:
> ...BTW no discussion tool can help in automating
> separate discussion threads when the topic changes.
>
They can, I think reddit and hackernews are good at this.
That's the "tree-like" structure that I mentioned in my email.
> You will defi
On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 11:30:58AM +0200, Mathias Behrle wrote:
> first of all it would help a lot to identify when a new subthread is
> openend and make this visible in the usual way (like this mail does). It would
> increase a lot(!) the readability of Debian lists where this is an
> often encoun
* Jeremy Stanley: " Re: Bits from the DPL (August 2019)" (Tue, 1 Oct 2019
20:45:35 +):
Hi,
first of all it would help a lot to identify when a new subthread is
openend and make this visible in the usual way (like this mail does). It would
increase a lot(!) the readability of De
Hi Sam!
First of all thanks for your work you do as DPL, you put a lot of
energy, time and enthusiasm in it, and this is very visible!
On Tue, Oct 01, 2019 at 09:57:38AM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> > "Holger" == Holger Levsen writes:
>
>
> Holger> So to me this is more the consensus of
❦ 2 octobre 2019 05:47 +02, Jean-Philippe MENGUAL :
> An idea: establishing a time of discussion. At the end, if there is not
> consensus (as Gitlab), there is not. If there is, ensuring every DD can
> still have an opinion via GR or changes proposals in some guidelines
> (Debian Policy, etc). W
Hi,
An idea: establishing a time of discussion. At the end, if there is not
consensus (as Gitlab), there is not. If there is, ensuring every DD can
still have an opinion via GR or changes proposals in some guidelines
(Debian Policy, etc). While mails are too much and so long to be
followed by "sil
On 10/1/19 3:57 PM, Sam Hartman wrote:
> What would be more useful than this criticism is concrete advice on how
> I can shorten them while still accomplishing my goals.
after flying over your d-d-a mail again, my suggestion:
- create a blog post for each point you are discussing
- summarize
On 10/1/19 3:57 PM, Sam Hartman wrote:
>> "Holger" == Holger Levsen writes:
>
>
> Holger> So to me this is more the consensus of those with the
> Holger> priveledge to read, process and repond to this mailinglist,
> Holger> yet there are many more people packaging software in
On 2019-10-01 16:13:03 -0400 (-0400), Sam Hartman wrote:
> A couple of people active in Gnome have suggested discourse for
> this sort of thing. It's got enough email integration that perhaps
> we would not lose people who want that interface.
>
> I t would be interesting if someone wanted to spen
> "Jonathan" == Jonathan Carter writes:
Jonathan> I try to follow debian-devel really closely, and mostly
Jonathan> manage to succeed, but this was probably the toughest
Jonathan> topics for me to follow, there's lots of repetition,
Jonathan> me-toos, posts that don't really
Hi Sam
On 2019/10/01 15:57, Sam Hartman wrote:
> I'd say it is a consensus of those who prioritize participating in this
> discussion enough to do so, consented to by the rest of the project.
> If we get it sufficiently wrong people in the broader community will let
> us know.
>
> Yes, because of
A couple of people active in Gnome have suggested discourse for this
sort of thing.
It's got enough email integration that perhaps we would not lose people
who want that interface.
I t would be interesting if someone wanted to spend the time to pilot
that.
>
> Am I really expected to add a "me too" response every time I agree with
> what
> someone else took the time to write... making it harder for people with
> limited
> time to follow? This seems especially cruel to those that don't speak
> English
> natively, and those that rely on translation ser
> "Michael" == Michael Lustfield writes:
Michael> On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 14:32:10 +
Michael> Holger Levsen wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 01, 2019 at 09:57:38AM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
>> > I'd say it is a consensus of those who prioritize participating
>> in this > discussion
On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 14:32:10 +
Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 01, 2019 at 09:57:38AM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> > I'd say it is a consensus of those who prioritize participating in this
> > discussion enough to do so, consented to by the rest of the project.
>
> I'm sorry, but I disagr
> "Sean" == Sean Whitton writes:
Sean> You might separate your detailed, narrative descriptions of
Sean> how discussions went from what you took away from the
Sean> discussions. You could either drop the former, or put it in a
Sean> "read this if you want more details" sectio
On Tue, Oct 01, 2019 at 02:32:10PM +, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 01, 2019 at 09:57:38AM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> > I'd say it is a consensus of those who prioritize participating in this
> > discussion enough to do so, consented to by the rest of the project.
> I'm sorry, but I disa
On Tue, Oct 01, 2019 at 09:57:38AM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> I'd say it is a consensus of those who prioritize participating in this
> discussion enough to do so, consented to by the rest of the project.
I'm sorry, but I disagree. Silence is not always consent.
--
cheers,
Holger
---
On Tue, Oct 01, 2019 at 07:21:20AM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
> May I ask whether you review your d-d-a e-mails, specifically with an
> eye to brevity, before sending them out? Given how many people read
> them, time invested in editing for brevity would be well spent.
that.
> You might separate
Hello Sam,
On Tue 01 Oct 2019 at 09:57AM -04, Sam Hartman wrote:
> Holger> And then, 'spreading to more places' reminds me of another
> Holger> critisism I have with your reports: they are too long. :-D
>
>
> What would be more useful than this criticism is concrete advice on how
> I can
> "Holger" == Holger Levsen writes:
Holger> So to me this is more the consensus of those with the
Holger> priveledge to read, process and repond to this mailinglist,
Holger> yet there are many more people packaging software in Debian.
I'd say it is a consensus of those who prior
Dear Sam,
first of all, many thanks for writing these 'Bits from the DPL' mails
regularily, much appreciated!
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 04:46:14PM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> Git Packaging
> =
[...]
> The discussion generated enough mail that I have not yet found time to
> issue a conse
On 2019-09-24 07:34, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Dear Mo.
>
> Mo Zhou - 24.09.19, 04:58:06 CEST:
>> For desktop users, non-systemd init plus a mordern desktop environment
>> such as Plasma or Gnome would be impossible on Debian, as they depend
>> on systemd. Some other distro such as Gentoo and Fr
Dear Mo.
Mo Zhou - 24.09.19, 04:58:06 CEST:
> For desktop users, non-systemd init plus a mordern desktop environment
> such as Plasma or Gnome would be impossible on Debian, as they depend
> on systemd. Some other distro such as Gentoo and FreeBSD have somehow
> removed the systemd dependency for
Hi,
On 2019-09-23 23:29, Sam Hartman wrote:
> Samuel> I'm not saying maintainers should spend time on maintaining
> Samuel> init files etc. but at least leave room for people who want
>
> Obviously if we had a vote the project could choose to agree with you or
> not.
FYI, two important t
> "Samuel" == Samuel Thibault writes:
Samuel> Hello, Sam Hartman, le mer. 18 sept. 2019 16:46:14 -0400, a
Samuel> ecrit:
>> We could stop caring about sysvinit (which isn't quite the same
>> thing but is related). That would leave non-linux ports in an
>> unfortunate posi
Hello,
Sam Hartman, le mer. 18 sept. 2019 16:46:14 -0400, a ecrit:
> We could stop caring about sysvinit (which isn't quite the same thing
> but is related). That would leave non-linux ports in an unfortunate
> position. But right now there are no non-linux ports in the main
> archive. So perha
On Thu, Sep 19 2019, Bálint Réczey wrote:
> I would like to just remind ourselves that in WSL and Docker
> containers systemd is not running as the init system and systemd
> services can't be started easily but init.d scripts can be.
FWIW, with buster, systemd becomes possible in unprivileged do
On 2019/09/19 11:18, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> I also feel sad cause I saw the enormous efforts of Devuan and Debian
> people as well as the new Sysvinit upstream maintainer to improve the
> quality of sysvinit, startpart, insserv, runit, openrc you name them
> packages and to actually introd
Hi,
Sam Hartman ezt írta (időpont: 2019. szept. 18.,
Sze, 22:47):
>
>
> Dear Debian:
>
...
> Init System Diversity
> =
..
> Honestly, I'm not entirely sure how to move forward. Perhaps it's just
> that I haven't talked to someone I need to. Perhaps someone will read
> this,
Hi Sam!
I took long time to write this even on still recovering from a pace in
my life that feels too quick for me. But I intended this to be carefully
worded in order to not hurt anyone. I hope I succeeded. My invitation:
Before taking anything personal and making the choice to feel hurt about
On dj., set. 19 2019, Jerome BENOIT wrote:
On 19/09/2019 00:46, Sam Hartman wrote:
Init System Diversity
=
So perhaps sysvinit and init scripts have had their chance and
it is
time to move on. We could move away from init scripts as the
default
representation. We
> "Jerome" == Jerome BENOIT writes:
Jerome> On 19/09/2019 00:46, Sam Hartman wrote:
>> Init System Diversity =
Jerome>
>> So perhaps sysvinit and init scripts have had their chance and it
>> is time to move on. We could move away from init script
On 19/09/2019 00:46, Sam Hartman wrote:
> Init System Diversity
> =
> So perhaps sysvinit and init scripts have had their chance and it is
> time to move on. We could move away from init scripts as the default
> representation. We could stop caring about sysvinit (whic
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