Le mardi, 13 mai 2014, 17.21:45 Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
> Didier 'OdyX' Raboud dixit:
> >Le mardi, 13 mai 2014, 16.25:31 Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
> >> On Mon, 12 May 2014, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> >> > Are you aware that Joss isn't a systemd maintainer? (He's one of
> >> > the GNOME maintainers
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 6:33 AM, Christoph Biedl wrote:
> In 5.18, upstream decided to discourage usage of smart matches and
> given..when after these have existed since 5.10 (or: more than six
> years) by marking them as experimental, and did this in a very harsh
> way. This will drive me away fr
Hi All!
Emailing this to save systemd folks NFS grief...
NOTE: This all needs to be actioned for Jessie release
Also Note this fixes bugs #748074 (rpcbind) and #622394 (nfs-common)
We don't need a socket activated rpcbind, but using socket activation
for NFS RPC daemons using upstream systemd
gregor herrmann wrote...
> Which kind of problems did you see with new Perl versions (I could
> imagine incompatible old third-party software), and is there
> something the Debian perl maintainers and/or the Debian Perl Group
> can do to improve the situation?
At first I was about to say those wh
Am 13.05.2014 23:46, schrieb David Goodenough:
> Does bash-completion work when the command is sudo not service? Never seems
> to for me. I never log in as root, I always do root things using sudo.
Sure, works fine.
--
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
unive
Le mardi 13 mai 2014 à 22:46 +0100, David Goodenough a écrit :
> Does bash-completion work when the command is sudo not service?
Yes.
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
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On Tuesday 13 May 2014 21:09:14 Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
> In data martedì 13 maggio 2014 19:42:32, David Goodenough ha scritto:
> > > service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
> > > systemd, and does the right thing.
> >
> > The big shame with service is that tab completion doe
Steve Langasek dixit:
>On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 08:23:55PM +, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
>> >service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
>> >systemd, and does the right thing.
>
>> It doesn’t work on lenny, and (unless service /etc/init.d/foo is
>> allowed) does not tabcomplete w
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 08:23:55PM +, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> >service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
> >systemd, and does the right thing.
> It doesn’t work on lenny, and (unless service /etc/init.d/foo is
> allowed) does not tabcomplete well (in all scenarios).
Lots
On Tue, 13 May 2014 18:57:03 +0200, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote:
> I could not agree more. In our enterprise environment, I have no
> expectation at all that systemd will cause us significant trouble on
> upgrades. Our troubles have centered things like grub1 to grub2 or,
> indeed, new PHP and Perl vers
Thibaut Paumard dixit:
>People who run testing or unstable should be prepared to deal with
>occasional breakages.
With occasional *temporary* breakages, such as packages disappearing
(in testing) or needing to be set on “hold” temporarily, yes.
With the init system suddenly be swapped out under
Russ Allbery dixit:
>> • no /etc/init.d/$foo (to tabcomplete, no less!) any more
>
>I've been telling people to stop using this for years. You should stop
>using this too, regardless of what init system you're using, since it
>doesn't sanitize environment variables. You leak all kinds of crap fr
Le 13/05/2014 19:38, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
> Cyril Brulebois dixit:
>
>> The sad thing is: almost nobody reads the release notes.
>
> Many people run testing or unstable, so there are no “release”s
> to have notes for, either… (but yes, even those who run stable
> don’t).
People who run test
* Russ Allbery [140513 18:21]:
> > We would be wise to make the last non-systemd release an LTS one so that
> > enterprise users can stay on that release until the systems these
> > installations run are retired.
>
> You're aware, right, that my primary background is with enterprise use,
> and I'
Op dinsdag 13 mei 2014 19:36:35 schreef Thorsten Glaser:
> Thijs Kinkhorst dixit:
> >I could not agree more. In our enterprise environment, I have no
> >expectation at all that systemd will cause us significant trouble on
> >upgrades. Our troubles have centered things like grub1 to grub2 or,
>
> Y
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 07:42:32PM +0100, David Goodenough wrote:
> > service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
> > systemd, and does the right thing.
> The big shame with service is that tab completion does not work properly.
> If I use /etc/init.d/ then tab tells me what is
Am 13.05.2014 20:42, schrieb David Goodenough:
> On Tuesday 13 May 2014 11:06:10 Russ Allbery wrote:
>> service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
>> systemd, and does the right thing.
> The big shame with service is that tab completion does not work properly.
> If I use /etc/i
In data martedì 13 maggio 2014 19:42:32, David Goodenough ha scritto:
> > service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
> > systemd, and does the right thing.
>
> The big shame with service is that tab completion does not work properly.
> If I use /etc/init.d/ then tab tells me w
On Tue, 2014-05-13 at 19:42 +0100, David Goodenough wrote:
> On Tuesday 13 May 2014 11:06:10 Russ Allbery wrote:
> > service foo works across Linux distributions, with or without
> > systemd, and does the right thing.
> The big shame with service is that tab completion does not work properly.
In
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 07:42:32PM +0100, David Goodenough wrote:
> The big shame with service is that tab completion does not work properly.
> If I use /etc/init.d/ then tab tells me what is there and spells it right.
Sounds like maybe you need a better shell.
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On Tuesday 13 May 2014 11:06:10 Russ Allbery wrote:
> Thorsten Glaser writes:
> > Yes, there were issues with e.g. grub1 to grub2, but do you honestly
> > think that sysadmins in a medium-sized company will cope with these?
> >
> > • no /etc/init.d/$foo (to tabcomplete, no less!) any more
>
> I'
Thorsten Glaser writes:
> Yes, there were issues with e.g. grub1 to grub2, but do you honestly
> think that sysadmins in a medium-sized company will cope with these?
> • no /etc/init.d/$foo (to tabcomplete, no less!) any more
I've been telling people to stop using this for years. You should st
Thorsten Glaser (2014-05-13):
> (But it was nice to have a published list of those people who maybe
> could accidentally be hit by a tactical small-bus…)
That's absolutely shocking and intolerable.
KiBi.
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Thijs Kinkhorst dixit:
>On Tue, May 13, 2014 18:03, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> You're aware, right, that my primary background is with enterprise use,
>> and I've been doing large-site systems administration for twenty years?
>>
>> systemd is a godsend with basically no downside for our enterprise us
Cyril Brulebois dixit:
>The sad thing is: almost nobody reads the release notes.
Many people run testing or unstable, so there are no “release”s
to have notes for, either… (but yes, even those who run stable
don’t).
bye,
//mirabilos
--
“When udev happened I wrote mdev.”
-- Rob Landley i
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud dixit:
>Le mardi, 13 mai 2014, 16.25:31 Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
>> On Mon, 12 May 2014, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>> > Are you aware that Joss isn't a systemd maintainer? (He's one of
>> > the GNOME maintainers.)
>>
>> There’s not really a line between them, you know. (But
Thibaut Paumard (2014-05-13):
> Le 13/05/2014 17:36, Russ Allbery a écrit :
> > Right, which I've been arguing for already in this thread. I don't think
> > we should force this on upgrades. There should be a prompt and an
> > opportunity to not change init systems.
>
> Instead of or in additio
On Tue, 13 May 2014, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> (But it was nice to have a published list of those people who maybe
> could accidentally be hit by a tactical small-bus…)
This is absolutely inappropriate and has no place on a Debian mailing
list or anywhere else. Please retract this statement.
--
D
* Thorsten Glaser (t...@mirbsd.org) wrote:
> (But it was
> nice to have a published list of those people who maybe could
> accidentally be hit by a tactical small-bus…)
These comments are not necessary nor appropriate, ever.
Thanks,
Stephen
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Hi,
Le 13/05/2014 17:36, Russ Allbery a écrit :
> Right, which I've been arguing for already in this thread. I don't think
> we should force this on upgrades. There should be a prompt and an
> opportunity to not change init systems.
Instead of or in addition to such prompting, I expect this swi
On Tue, May 13, 2014 18:03, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
>> The update to the first Debian stable release running systemd will most
>> probably be the most painful update Debian has ever had since switching
>> to glibc (which was well before I started using Linux).
>
> I highly doubt it.
>
>> We would be
Thorsten Glaser writes:
> On Mon, 12 May 2014, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>> Are you aware that Joss isn't a systemd maintainer? (He's one of the
>> GNOME maintainers.)
> There’s not really a line between them, you know. (But it was nice to
> have a published list of those people who maybe could ac
Le 13 mai 2014 17:42, "Russ Allbery" a écrit :
>
> > Le 13 mai 2014 03:01, "Michael Biebl" a =C3=A9crit :
> >> Am 13.05.2014 02:54, schrieb Russ Allbery:
>
> >>> Yeah, that's just what I was thinking. Any software that doesn't
> >>> honor an invoke-rc.d policy is RC-buggy anyway, and it would be
Apologies for the last few mangled messages with bad attributions or
character sets. Emacs 24 didn't like its header and body separator
overridden (it thought my separator was a continuation line of a previous
header), which caused subtle problems with mail sending until I figured
out what was goi
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Benjamin Drung
* Package name: django-sortedm2m (binaries: python-sortedm2m,
python3-sortedm2m, and python-sortedm2m-data)
Version : 0.7.0
Upstream Author : Gregor Müllegger
* URL : https://github.com/gregmuellegger/django-sort
On Mon, 12 May 2014, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> ]] Andrew Shadura
> > This sort of behaviour is precisely why so many people not only
> > dislike systemd, but also it's maintainers.
>
> Are you aware that Joss isn't a systemd maintainer? (He's one of the
> GNOME maintainers.)
There’s not really a
> The update to the first Debian stable release running systemd will most
> probably be the most painful update Debian has ever had since switching
> to glibc (which was well before I started using Linux).
I highly doubt it.
> We would be wise to make the last non-systemd release an LTS one so t
Hi,
since the discussion goes back and forth on this blog-post, I thought I
throw in the actual answer of lennart poettering to it:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/posts/aSYnf3wNf8h
And this is pretty much all of my contribution to it, it just annoyed
me, that no one s
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:10 AM, Matthias Klose wrote:
> Am 13.05.2014 17:44, schrieb Yunqiang Su:
>> Do you plan make 4.9 the only version of gcc in jessie?
>
> This first depends on building the kernel, both linux and kfreebsd, and eglibc
> using gcc-4.9.
>
I tried build eglibc with gcc-4.9, an
> Matthias Urlichs wrote:
>> In theory, yes you could discover whether a package was installed
>> explicity or has been pulled in as a dependency.
>> In practice, however, a "normal" Debian installation marks each and
>> every package as being installed explicitly.
> ? huh ? This has never been
Am 13.05.2014 17:44, schrieb Yunqiang Su:
> Do you plan make 4.9 the only version of gcc in jessie?
This first depends on building the kernel, both linux and kfreebsd, and eglibc
using gcc-4.9.
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> How difficult would it be, for the sake of compatibility if nothing
> else, to teach su not to create a new PAM session when it doesn't
> already run within one?
You don't want to do that in general since that defeats the primary
purpose of su: creating a new session as a different user.
It's
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 07:01:14PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Dependency-based boot, the change to /bin/sh, and UUID-based mounting
>> were all not drop-in replacements by that criteria.
> Note that also none of them were forced on existing installations. The
> change of /bin/sh to dash (wh
❦ 13 mai 2014 15:01 +0200, Marc Haber :
>>Thank you so much for volunteering to contribute to GNOME packaging and
>>to make it work on configurations nobody will actually ever use.
>>
>>We are eagerly waiting for your patches.
>
> This sort of behavior is precisely why many users are migrating a
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 8:56 PM, Matthias Klose wrote:
> With gcc-4.9 now available in testing, it is time to prepare for the change of
> the default to 4.9, for a subset of architectures or for all (release)
> architectures. The defaults for the gdc, gccgo, gcj and gnat frontends
> already
> po
> Le 13 mai 2014 03:01, "Michael Biebl" a =C3=A9crit :
>> Am 13.05.2014 02:54, schrieb Russ Allbery:
>>> Yeah, that's just what I was thinking. Any software that doesn't
>>> honor an invoke-rc.d policy is RC-buggy anyway, and it would be good
>>> to catch and fix that.
> Could you also open a b
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "ChangZhuo Chen (陳昌倬)"
* Package name: gcin-voice
Version : 0~20140513-1
Upstream Author : Edward Der-Hua Liu
* URL : http://hyperrate.com/thread.php?tid=30325#30325
* License : GPL-3 or LGPL-3
Programming
On Tue, 13 May 2014, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> My opinion is that many users are migrating away from Debian because we
> are unable to make decisions on important technical topics and leave
> them with 3 different setups, none of which actually work, instead of
> providing one that is correctly po
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512
On 05/13/2014 05:44 AM, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez:
>
>> "[...] they don't want you to have the option of NOT using their
>> stuff. """ http://www.landley.net/notes.html#23-04-2014
>>
> IMHO this is a gross mis-c
Le mardi 13 mai 2014 à 15:01 +0200, Marc Haber a écrit :
> This sort of behavior is precisely why many users are migrating away
> from Debian.
You are entitled to think that users make decisions on the alleged
behavior of people they never heard of.
My opinion is that many users are migrating aw
On Mon, 12 May 2014 21:16:49 +0200, Bas Wijnen
wrote:
>I, as a user, did not expect to be moved over to systemd, and given the
>discussions about it and the older TC decisions about network manager getting
>its dependencies right (to stop forcing all of gnome onto the user's system),
>it felt to m
2014-05-13 15:01 GMT+02:00 Marc Haber :
> On Mon, 12 May 2014 13:58:31 +0200, Josselin Mouette
> wrote:
>>Le lundi 12 mai 2014 à 12:16 +0200, Andrew Shadura a écrit :
>>> > As far as GDM is concerned, any bug reported with systemd-shim installed
>>> > will be ignored. The bug script should probabl
On Tue, 13 May 2014 11:44:13 +0200, Matthias Urlichs
wrote:
>It's also demonstrably false. Otherwise systemd would not be compatible
>with existing SysV init scripts (to the point that I can run them manually
>and, if they happen to load the LSB stuff, they transparently redirect
>themselves throu
On Mon, 12 May 2014 13:35:15 +0200, Tollef Fog Heen
wrote:
>> On 12 May 2014 11:54, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> > Systemd is the default init system for jessie, and it should be listed
>> > as the first alternative. The fact that an alternative codepath exists
>> > for users with specific needs is
On Mon, 12 May 2014 13:58:31 +0200, Josselin Mouette
wrote:
>Le lundi 12 mai 2014 à 12:16 +0200, Andrew Shadura a écrit :
>> > As far as GDM is concerned, any bug reported with systemd-shim installed
>> > will be ignored. The bug script should probably be updated to that
>> > effect, BTW.
>>
>>
On Mon, 12 May 2014 19:01:14 -0700, Russ Allbery
wrote:
>Dependency-based boot, the change to /bin/sh, and UUID-based mounting were
>all not drop-in replacements by that criteria.
The update to the first Debian stable release running systemd will
most probably be the most painful update Debian ha
On Sun, 11 May 2014 22:34:47 -0700, Steve Langasek
wrote:
>On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 09:10:21AM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>> >> The plain fact:
>
>> >> Using systemd breaks something that worked for probably a decade or longer
>> >> before however long that su is in that init script. So on what acco
With gcc-4.9 now available in testing, it is time to prepare for the change of
the default to 4.9, for a subset of architectures or for all (release)
architectures. The defaults for the gdc, gccgo, gcj and gnat frontends already
point to 4.9 and are used on all architectures. Issue #746805 tracks
Quoting David Prévot (2014-05-13 12:00:40)
> Le 13/05/2014 05:34, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
>> Also, where is a Free profile? ISTR that PDF/{A,X} creation requires
>> a profile too; I’ve used one that came as example somewhere
>> currently.
>
> The icc-profiles-free package is in main.
ghostscr
On Tue, 13 May 2014 11:31:19 +0200
Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Cameron Norman:
> > Is it not possible to tell if the sysvinit or upstart packages were
> > installed manually, and give a prompt then (in addition to
> > something like you described) ?
> >
> In theory, yes you could discover
Le lundi 12 mai 2014 à 11:42 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> > As far as GDM is concerned, any bug reported with systemd-shim installed
> > will be ignored. The bug script should probably be updated to that
> > effect, BTW.
>
> A better solution would be for you to step down as maintainer, sinc
Hi,
Le 13/05/2014 05:34, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
> On Mon, 12 May 2014, James Cloos wrote:
>
>> Note that you cannot just strip colour profiles from image containers.
>>
>> Doing so changes the output.
>>
>> You'd have to replace the profile with a Free equivilent. Or, if no
>> free equivilent
> Il Martedì 13 Maggio 2014 11:19, Guus Sliepen ha scritto:
> > On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 07:47:06PM +0100, Gianfranco Costamagna wrote:
>
>> cppcheck [1] has been removed from testing [2] because of a sourceless
> javascript file [3].
>
> Indeed, sourceless files in the source is bad.
>
Hi,
Cameron Norman:
> Is it not possible to tell if the sysvinit or upstart packages were
> installed manually, and give a prompt then (in addition to something like
> you described) ?
>
In theory, yes you could discover whether a package was installed explicity
or has been pulled in as a depende
Hi,
Bas Wijnen:
> Sounds like those packages should conflict with each other. It isn't a reason
> to uninstall anything.
>
If you've used aptitude for any length of time, its affinity towards
uninstalling half of your system in favor of *any* other way to resolve
a conflict should not be surpris
Hi,
Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez:
> "[...] they don't want you to have the option of NOT using their stuff.
> """ http://www.landley.net/notes.html#23-04-2014
>
IMHO this is a gross mis-characterization.
A whole lot more correct IMHO would be the idea that their developer time
is best spent fixing
On Mon, 12 May 2014, James Cloos wrote:
> Note that you cannot just strip colour profiles from image containers.
>
> Doing so changes the output.
>
> You'd have to replace the profile with a Free equivilent. Or, if no
> free equivilent is available, edit the image to match a Free profile.
Can yo
On Mon, 12 May 2014, Noah Meyerhans wrote:
> On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 11:12:08AM +1000, Brian May wrote:
> >What about the task of running a short program for a brief duration, e.g.
> >from cron scripts? Is using su considered acceptable?
I thought s-s-d is for starting dæmons, not for th
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 07:47:06PM +0100, Gianfranco Costamagna wrote:
> cppcheck [1] has been removed from testing [2] because of a sourceless
> javascript file [3].
Indeed, sourceless files in the source is bad.
> Because of this I packaged (with patch and thanks from Octavio) a new dfsg
> v
Hi,
Steve Langasek:
> As the maintainer of the pam package in Debian, I assure you: this is a bug
> in dirmngr. System services should not (must not) call interfaces that
> launch pam sessions as part of their init scripts. su is one of those
> interfaces.
>
How difficult would it be, for the s
Hi,
Kevin Chadwick:
> previously on this list Matthias Urlichs contributed:
>
> > I haven't yet seen a system where booting with init=/bin/bash works but
> > booting systemd in emergency mode does not.
>
> Have you added me to a killfile?
* Am I under some sort of obligation to read each and ev
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