Hi,
On Thursday 01 November 2007 19:34, Holger Levsen wrote:
> We've already done that for our etch release, released in July. There, we
> only support installation from network with a DVD, the CD installs need
s/from/without/
> network. The size of the need
Frans Pop wrote:
> On Friday 02 November 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> > Here'a an attempt at cancelable progress bars for apt-setup. If apt's
> > bug gets fixed the progress bar will also include download speed
> > and time estimates.
> >
> > The behavior when cancel is pressed could be improved, it cu
On Friday 02 November 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> Here'a an attempt at cancelable progress bars for apt-setup. If apt's
> bug gets fixed the progress bar will also include download speed
> and time estimates.
>
> The behavior when cancel is pressed could be improved, it currently
> behaves the same as
Here'a an attempt at cancelable progress bars for apt-setup. If apt's
bug gets fixed the progress bar will also include download speed
and time estimates.
The behavior when cancel is pressed could be improved, it currently
behaves the same as if the apt source failed to validate, which
typically l
Otavio Salvador wrote:
> Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Try this:
> >
> > debconf-apt-progress aptitude update
> >
> > You can't use apt-get because it doesn't output the timing info to the
> > status-fd, but happily aptitude works. And for results that best mimic
> > d-i, you should
Joey Hess wrote:
> I don't feel this will be too hard to implement, but obviously there's
> no point on blocking your changes on it.
With the debconf-apt-progress from debconf 1.5.17, if the progresscancel
capb is set in d-i, hitting cancel on the progress bar will send first a
SIGINT, and if repe
Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Try this:
>
> debconf-apt-progress aptitude update
>
> You can't use apt-get because it doesn't output the timing info to the
> status-fd, but happily aptitude works. And for results that best mimic
> d-i, you should add a new mirror to sources.list first so
Hi,
On Thursday 01 November 2007 08:03, Geert Stappers wrote:
> I miss the link between Debian-Edu, famous for it's single CD install
> and getting an extra question in the installer for scanning more CDs.
> (which implies leaving the single install CD philosophy for Debian-Edu)
We've already don
Frans Pop wrote:
> If you have both CDs and a mirror in your sources list and a package is
> available from both and the version of the package on both is the same,
> apt(itude) will always take the package from the CD.
Yes, he wasn't saying this, but the opposite, AIUI.
--
see shy jo
signat
Frans Pop wrote:
> On Thursday 01 November 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> > If you're not on broadband and you choose to use a mirror, it takes
> > half an hour or more just to download the Packages file. Apt can
> > estimate this reaonably well so you shouldn't even need to wait, you can
> > just see in
On Thursday 01 November 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> Praveen A wrote:
> > I think even now if you select a mirror and installing from CD it
> > downloads even those packages in the CD, correct me if I am wrong
> > here.
>
> Incorrect.
Hmmm?
The original statement is a bit unclear, but at least the fol
Praveen A wrote:
> I think even now if you select a mirror and installing from CD it
> downloads even those packages in the CD, correct me if I am wrong
> here.
Incorrect.
(As is much of the rest of your mail. Please lose the chip on your
shoulder if you'd like to influence me *at *all*.)
--
se
On Thursday 01 November 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> If you're not on broadband and you choose to use a mirror, it takes
> half an hour or more just to download the Packages file. Apt can
> estimate this reaonably well so you shouldn't even need to wait, you can
> just see in the progress bar estimate
Christian Perrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> So, with all respect I have for the reluctance to add extra questions
> to defaults installs (imho, Joeyh's strong stance on this...as well as
> Frans' one when he acted as RM, has always kept D-I as "clean" as
> possible), I tend to favourize (en?)
2007/11/1, Christian Perrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Praveen, don't bring the discussion on that field. You actually have
> no idea how Joey is respectful for *all* our users.
>
> You may misunderstand him but I'd like this discussion to remain civil
> and polite.
I just echoed the feelings in this
On Thursday 01 November 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> It asks for all the CDs first, there's no path through the install that
> asks about a network mirror first (if anna uses a network mirror, this
> isn't a full CD and so it doesn't ask for other full CDs, AIUI).
I don't understand the comment about
On Thursday 01 November 2007, Christian Perrier wrote:
> Quoting Frans Pop ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> Frans' proposal adds an extra question when doing CD installs, to
> prompt users whether they want to use another CD or not. This, even if
> they did choose a network mirror before.
Not quite. My prop
Op 01-11-2007 om 14:00 schreef Praveen A:
> 2007/11/1, Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > It's quite difficult to find the more useful CDs, like multiarch discs,
> > single full CDs, and netinsts, while we're awash in 20 CD sets. This is
> > broken..
>
> and you fixed it by removing the option
On Thursday 01 November 2007 20:19, Joey Hess wrote:
> It's unlikely that tasksel is going to want anything beyond what's on
> those first 2 CDs, so it would be reasonable to just use them for the
> install and set up a mirror later.
For the record, there are five packages (Task: ) that could be
Quoting Praveen A ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> 2007/11/1, Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > I think that I have a fairly good understanding of the diversity of
> > internet connections out there, having spanned dialup, cable, dsl, isdn,
> > t3 or better, the neighborhood coffee shop, third world network
2007/11/1, Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I think that I have a fairly good understanding of the diversity of
> internet connections out there, having spanned dialup, cable, dsl, isdn,
> t3 or better, the neighborhood coffee shop, third world networks, and
> satellite in a non-linear progression
2007/11/1, Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Wednesday 31 October 2007, Praveen A wrote:
> > [...], when Ubuntu gives everything a normal user wants in one CD.
>
> That's not quite true. AFAIK Ubuntu only distributes _DVDs_ and I'm fairly
> sure that if you take a Debian DVD you will find most of
Op 01-11-2007 om 08:49 schreef Christian Perrier:
> Quoting Geert Stappers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > Op 01-11-2007 om 07:15 schreef Christian Perrier:
> >
> > > As a conclusion, I really would like to see Frans proposal
> > > implemented. The plan he proposed seems right to me.
> >
> > Funny.
(side comment in this thread)
Quoting Joey Hess ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> [1] apt's estimate is not currently exposed to the user by apt-setup,
> but this should be fixable by using debconf-apt-progress.
Whatever choice we make in this thread, that seems to be an
interesting enhancement, yes.
Op 01-11-2007 om 08:15 schreef Geert Stappers:
>
> I have the feeling that installing a computer became more important
> then have an installed computer.
| I have the sad feeling that installing a computer became more important
| then having an installed computer.
Make the install quick[1] so th
Quoting Geert Stappers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> Op 01-11-2007 om 07:15 schreef Christian Perrier:
>
> > As a conclusion, I really would like to see Frans proposal
> > implemented. The plan he proposed seems right to me.
>
> Funny.
Sorry but I have actually no clue to understand what you mean
Christian Perrier wrote:
> Frans' proposal adds an extra question when doing CD installs, to
> prompt users whether they want to use another CD or not. This, even if
> they did choose a network mirror before.
It asks for all the CDs first, there's no path through the install that
asks about a netw
Frans Pop wrote:
> It's logical from the installer's pov, but not from a _user's_ pov.
> How the hell is he supposed to guess that he will be asked about additional
> CDs later when confronted with a question about a network mirror?
>
> If I (as a newbie) were confronted by that question I would
Op 01-11-2007 om 07:15 schreef Christian Perrier:
> As a conclusion, I really would like to see Frans proposal
> implemented. The plan he proposed seems right to me.
Funny.
To me it was allways interresting to see that the debian-installer is
build by people who have an installed computer.
U
Op 31-10-2007 om 21:53 schreef Holger Levsen:
> Hi,
>
> On Wednesday 31 October 2007 19:23, Frans Pop wrote:
> > And, as said before, I think it is wanted a lot more than you think. Not
> > for full sets, but I think for a lot of users downloading the first 2-4 CDs
> > can be a very sensible optio
Quoting Frans Pop ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> Your mail seriously put me off for a few days, so I've given myself some
> extra time to think about it.
I went through all this discussion as I feel pretty important to get
this issue solved and decided.
May I attempt to summarize how I see the "dispute
On Wednesday 31 October 2007, Geert Stappers wrote:
> In the Commodore 64 days, I had the game "Fort Apocalypse".
/me had the same game :-)
> Please design with an user (so not a newbie) in mind.
>
> For those who are worried about "elite" and such:
> Really "elite-ish" is to assume that the pers
Op 31-10-2007 om 22:23 schreef Frans Pop:
> It's logical from the installer's pov, but not from a _user's_ pov.
> How the hell is he supposed to guess that he will be asked about additional
> CDs later when confronted with a question about a network mirror?
>
> If I (as a newbie) were confronted
On Wednesday 31 October 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> It seems logical to me; the installer wants to find as complete as
> possible a copy of the debian archive and doesn't really need to
> continue to find other copies once one has been found. Same reason it
> doesn't ask for CDs after you've given it
Hi,
On Wednesday 31 October 2007 19:23, Frans Pop wrote:
> And, as said before, I think it is wanted a lot more than you think. Not
> for full sets, but I think for a lot of users downloading the first 2-4 CDs
> can be a very sensible option.
Debian Edu pretty much wants that, to be able to dist
Frans Pop wrote:
> OK, but in your proposal the option to scan additional CDs is _not asked at
> all_ if they choose to use a mirror. A significant difference I'd say.
Asking the CD question in expert mode if a mirror has been configured is
not significantly different than allowing lilo to be cho
On Wednesday 31 October 2007, Praveen A wrote:
> [...], when Ubuntu gives everything a normal user wants in one CD.
That's not quite true. AFAIK Ubuntu only distributes _DVDs_ and I'm fairly
sure that if you take a Debian DVD you will find most of what you would
want on the first DVD as well.
T
On Wednesday 31 October 2007, Frans Pop wrote:
> > Neither does installing lilo to one disk and grub to another, but d-i
> > does not prompt the user to choose if they want to use lilo, and follow
> > that up with a separate prompt about whether to use grub. Instead d-i
> > allows the -0.1% of
2007/10/27, Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Frans Pop wrote:
> No, it's much more natural to optimise for the common case, which is
> using a mirror. Users should not be encouraged to scan huge piles of CDs.
> Huge piles of CDs are obsolete in all but a very few edge cases.
Not at all. Does the f
Your mail seriously put me off for a few days, so I've given myself some
extra time to think about it.
On Friday 26 October 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> > As argued above, loading multiple CDs in no way conflicts with using a
> > mirror. IMO we have to always ask both questions.
>
> Neither does inst
Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Also, first letting the user scan all CDs and then asking about adding a
>> mirror is a lot more logical than the other way around:
>> a) it seems not very natural to first scan the installation CD, then do
>> other stuff, and then go back to scanning CDs
Geert Stappers wrote:
> I miss the "why". Right now I have the unplesant feeling it is "apt-cdrom
> add" re-invented. Someone willing to enlighten me?
The sole use-case for multiple CDs in d-i is a scenario where the user
is not connected to (or chooses not to use) a fast network and is going
to s
Frans Pop wrote:
> I beg to disagree.
>
> As argued above, loading multiple CDs in no way conflicts with using a
> mirror. IMO we have to always ask both questions.
Neither does installing lilo to one disk and grub to another, but d-i
does not prompt the user to choose if they want to use lilo,
Op 25-10-2007 om 15:52 schreef Frans Pop:
> Attached patches to apt-setup and pkgsel make it possible to scan multiple
> CD/DVDs from a set during apt-setup and use them during pkgsel.
>
> The patches have been tested and work. I've done several successful desktop
> installations using CD1 plus
Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> As argued above, loading multiple CDs in no way conflicts with using a
> mirror. IMO we have to always ask both questions.
Ack.
> Also, first letting the user scan all CDs and then asking about adding a
> mirror is a lot more logical than the other way a
On Friday 26 October 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> Frans Pop wrote:
> > My thought was that the user should first be allowed to load additional
> > CD/DVDs or not and based on that we _could_ change the
> > defaults/priority for using a mirror.
> >
> > OTOH, as you've argued yourself in the past, having
On Friday 26 October 2007, Frans Pop wrote:
> A simple check to add would be if the CD has actually been changed (that
> the ID is not the same as the last one scanned), or even that a CD has
> not yet been scanned. I'll probably add that.
The patch below (which is on top of the earlier patch) add
Quoting Frans Pop ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > We should keep it consistent, and file bugs on any packages that ask
> > questions, even more aggressively than we file bugs on unncessary
> > questions from task packages.
>
> Only one question shows up: console-data "Policy for handling keymaps".
> Luc
Frans Pop wrote:
> My thought was that the user should first be allowed to load additional
> CD/DVDs or not and based on that we _could_ change the defaults/priority
> for using a mirror.
>
> OTOH, as you've argued yourself in the past, having additional CDs available
> does not guarantee that
On Friday 26 October 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> Frans Pop wrote:
> > +db_input high apt-setup/cdrom/set-first || true
> > +db_go || exit 10
> > +db_get apt-setup/cdrom/set-first
>
> If this generator ran after the 50mirror generator it could check to see
> if network sources were enabled in sources.l
On Friday 26 October 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> I wonder if you've considered the wrinkle of anna-install being run when
> a CD other than the boot CD is in the drive? anna-install is rarely
> called after base-installer, but it can happen.
It _does_ happen. In the current flow grub-installer is the
On Thursday 25 October 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> Frans Pop wrote:
> > For CD changing by apt-cdrom in /target to be possible, the
> > installation CD has to be unmounted in the D-I environment. While it is
> > unmounted, no udeb installations are possible.
> > Both in apt-setup (after scanning addit
On Thursday 25 October 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> > With the above implemented, this could be worked around by making
> > apt-setup umount the CD in the D-I environment and making it reload the
> > installation CD again before exiting (just like pkgsel now does).
>
> ITYM apt-install, not apt-setup?
Frans Pop wrote:
> +db_input high apt-setup/cdrom/set-first || true
> +db_go || exit 10
> +db_get apt-setup/cdrom/set-first
If this generator ran after the 50mirror generator it could check to see
if network sources were enabled in sources.list. If they are, and
a DVD is available, there's probabl
I wonder if you've considered the wrinkle of anna-install being run when
a CD other than the boot CD is in the drive? anna-install is rarely called
after base-installer, but it can happen.
Maybe cdrom-retreiver should store a volume ID of the CD and check that ID
and handling a media change.
--
Frans Pop wrote:
> Works fine inside D-I too.
> One nitpick: should the new option be listed in the SYNOPSIS of the manpage?
That's currently only listing the more important options.
> Otherwise, please upload.
Done.
--
see shy jo
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Description: Digital signature
On Thursday 25 October 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> Frans Pop wrote:
> > What's the reason we made apt-install non-interactive? Was it just that
> > we did not have the passthrough frontend at the time? If so, I guess we
> > should probably just make apt-install interactive in all cases.
>
> Both that
On Thursday 25 October 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> Joey Hess wrote:
> > > + in-target sh -c "$config debconf-apt-progress --logstderr --
> > > apt-get -o APT::Install-Recommends=false -y --no-remove install
> > > $packages" || ERRCODE=$?
> >
> > This resets the progress bar to 0, advances it to 100, a
Joey Hess wrote:
> > + in-target sh -c "$config debconf-apt-progress --logstderr -- apt-get -o
> > APT::Install-Recommends=false -y --no-remove install $packages" ||
> > ERRCODE=$?
>
> This resets the progress bar to 0, advances it to 100, and then STOPs
> it, which is not desirable if there i
Frans Pop wrote:
> What's the reason we made apt-install non-interactive? Was it just that we
> did not have the passthrough frontend at the time? If so, I guess we should
> probably just make apt-install interactive in all cases.
Both that we lacked working passthrough, and that none of these p
On Thursday 25 October 2007, Frans Pop wrote:
> On Thursday 25 October 2007, Frans Pop wrote:
> > The prompt for CD changing works during pkgsel, but apparently not for
> > a normal apt-install. During initial tests, installation of grub failed
> > because CD2 was still mounted and I never got the
Frans Pop wrote:
> On Thursday 25 October 2007, Frans Pop wrote:
> > The prompt for CD changing works during pkgsel, but apparently not for a
> > normal apt-install. During initial tests, installation of grub failed
> > because CD2 was still mounted and I never got the prompt to change CDs.
> > Thi
Frans Pop wrote:
> When base-config was integrated into D-I, we had find a way to make tasksel
> install from CD images for hd-media installations. This was solved by bind
> mounting the CD into target and telling apt-cdrom not to mount/unmount CDs.
> In the patch for apt-setup this is reverted:
Quoting Frans Pop ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> Attached patches to apt-setup and pkgsel make it possible to scan multiple
> CD/DVDs from a set during apt-setup and use them during pkgsel.
Comments on templates
> diff --git a/packages/apt-setup/debian/apt-cdrom-setup.install
> b/packages/apt-setup/de
On Thursday 25 October 2007, Frans Pop wrote:
> The prompt for CD changing works during pkgsel, but apparently not for a
> normal apt-install. During initial tests, installation of grub failed
> because CD2 was still mounted and I never got the prompt to change CDs.
> This is worked around by makin
Attached patches to apt-setup and pkgsel make it possible to scan multiple
CD/DVDs from a set during apt-setup and use them during pkgsel.
The patches have been tested and work. I've done several successful desktop
installations using CD1 plus CD2.
However, the patches are still a bit rough and
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