Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

2008/7/28 Ray Tayek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > At 07:53 PM 7/27/2008, you wrote: > >> The traditional programs are around 10 kyu, but the new ones are 2 to 4 >> kyu, >> at least on KGS. I've seen some handicap games against dan players that >> are >> consistent with these ratings. >> > > wow. that's i

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

2008/7/28 David Fotland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > The traditional programs are around 10 kyu, but the new ones are 2 to 4 kyu, > at least on KGS. I've seen some handicap games against dan players that are > consistent with these ratings. > > It wouldn't surprise me to see 1 dan from an MC program bef

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

My question isn't about how strong programs are now, or what is the definition of a dan, or what you think will happen in the future. The question is: what do you need to give your current 19x19 program another 6-ish ranks in strength (or 6+N where N is the distance between your program and the top

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

> I'm not the author of a strong program, but I'll throw another item into > the list: more incentive. For many, computer go competes for time with > many other hobbies and perhaps even a day job. The big Ing prize brought many people into computer-go, all working in parallel, competing, to make

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

> Personally, I think the next big strength jump would come from combining > localized searches/sequences with the global search's MC playouts. Curiously, my guess is the opposite: using UCT as the node evaluation in a more traditional alpha-beta searcher. (It's been mentioned a few times here but

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

Various branches of the US government (including NIST) have developed a very successful approach to funding research. Set up a measurable competition (such as we already have with CGOS) and then fund research groups through a series of rounds, with the results of each funding round being influenced

RE: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

At 11:57 PM 7/27/2008, you wrote: On one processor the current experimental version 12 has a 4 kyu kgs rating. wow I haven't tried handicap games, but the new version beats many faces 11 over 90% of even games. ... Right now you can only play them on KGS. i found and played a few bots on

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

For example, CrazyStone [1k]and MoGoBot1 [2k]. > > i found and played a few bots on kgs. can you tell me the name of yours and > some of the stronger ones? > ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

At 12:43 AM 7/28/2008, you wrote: 2008/7/28 Ray Tayek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 07:53 PM 7/27/2008, you wrote: The traditional programs are around 10 kyu, but the new ones are 2 to 4 kyu,... wow. that's impressive. can one buy these or just play the on kgs? You can down

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

Well MC-UCT programs (Mogo, CrazyStone and many others) need more CPU. Doubling the CPU gives a constant raise in playing level. There are even some threads about the issue. But becoming -say - 6 stones stronger I guess they would need more then 2^6 times more CPU. Also there could be a corner po

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

> > You can download for free an "old" version of MoGo (which reached 2k on KGS >> on a 4 CPU machine) at: >> >> >> >http://www.lri.fr/~gelly/MoGo_Download.htm >>

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

Die tweelingen van hetzelfde geslacht kan ik weinig aan doen. (voorletters "bestaan niet": er moet op de volledige voornamen worden gezocht) Ik vrees dat de meeste kinders meer dan een voornaam hebben. Eventueel zou ik ze nog op de door jou aangeleverde roepnaam kunne zoeken . Anders wordt het nood

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

Oops. Please ignore ... AvK ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

It's a question I have often contemplated. I don't think you can do anything now that will greatly influence what the level in 2010 will be. You have to think a little longer term. What it takes is fairly simple, it takes a million bucks per year (roughly). Getting that million bucks is not so simp

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

the $500K/year to hire an "expert team of programmers" to incorporate everyone's source code into an open-source framework is pretty wasteful. just let people dig through the code on their own. it'd be good enough, and save $500K/year. there's no real reason to give out the hardware, either, unl

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

On 28-jul-08, at 08:45, steve uurtamo wrote: the $500K/year to hire an "expert team of programmers" to incorporate everyone's source code into an open-source framework is pretty wasteful. Well, I disagree. Now all Go programmers waste a lot of time doing exactly the same things. just le

[computer-go] Re: What Do You Need Most?

Though my program is not strong :), I bet new algorithms. Especially, better (heavy)-playout with not only spatial features but also temporal ones, which gives small error of the score, and better uct part with some enhancement, perhaps, with RL. -gg Darren Cook: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >I have a

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

I hate to keep calling this MC-UCT because many programs do not use UCT so until we come up with better terminology I'm going to call it MC-BFS for Monte Carlo with Best First Search. The other aspect of the picture is that MC-BFS is a new technique. It's not reasonable to believe t

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

On Jul 28, 2008, at 5:04 AM, Darren Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Personally, I think the next big strength jump would come from combining localized searches/sequences with the global search's MC playouts. Curiously, my guess is the opposite: using UCT as the node evaluation in a more tr

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

Hi Mark, I like your basic idea very much (minor details aside of course.) I think 2 things have been largely responsible for the sudden increase in the strength of computer go programs: 1. Nicks KGS tournaments. 2. CGOS And your idea is an extension and improvement of these 2 t

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

Hi Don, Yes, there would be as many different approaches as people. I also agree that the KGS tournaments and CGOS have contributed a lot. But don't underestimate the influence of idea-sharing. Both GNU- Go and the many research papers about UCT/MC have contributed a lot, both by g

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

On Jul 27, 2008, at 11:44 PM, Ray Tayek wrote: At 07:53 PM 7/27/2008, David Fotland wrote: The traditional programs are around 10 kyu, but the new ones are 2 to 4 kyu, at least on KGS. I've seen some handicap games against dan players that are consistent with these ratings. wow. that's

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

I agree with several other posters: having frequent competitions, like CGOS and the KGS tournaments, is an invaluable spur to improve the performance of Go programs. If a sugar daddy were to add some serious cash prizes, that would encourage even broader participation and greater quality. One a

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

Ian Osgood wrote: On Jul 27, 2008, at 11:44 PM, Ray Tayek wrote: At 07:53 PM 7/27/2008, David Fotland wrote: The traditional programs are around 10 kyu, but the new ones are 2 to 4 kyu, at least on KGS. I've seen some handicap games against dan players that are consistent with these rati

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

- Original Message From: Ian Osgood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Leela. It is the first MC program to be offered for sale. http://sjeng.org/leela.html Leela appears to be a Windows program, judging by the .exe extension. Does anyone know if a Linux versi

[computer-go] August KGS bot tournament

I still haven't fixed a date for the August KGS bot tournament. The problem is, on Monday August 4th I am setting off for the EGC in Sweden. Many strong European players are already there. Many strong American players are at the US Go Congress. So on Sunday August 3rd, I will be able to run

Re: [computer-go] Re: kartoffel on cgos

I now see kartoffel2 on CGOS. The first game was a loss from never playing a stone, but has since won every game and is rapidly climbing in rank Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2008, at 10:29 PM, Jason House <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Is gnu go a weak bot? I suspect the weak bots and gn

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

At 02:18 AM 7/28/2008, you wrote: For example, CrazyStone [1k] and MoGoBot1 [2k]. i will try these. thanks > > i found and played a few bots on kgs. can you tell me the name of yours and > some of the stronger ones? ... --- vice-chair http://ocjug.org/

Re: [computer-go] What Do You Need Most?

At 02:36 AM 7/28/2008, you wrote: You can download for free an "old" version of MoGo ... the exe just sits there. iirc, i need some sort of gui ? can you tell me what that is? Yes you need some sort of gui. In the section "Installation and use instructions" I give some name and links to some

Re: [computer-go] August KGS bot tournament

Option C sounds best to me too. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 28, 2008, at 11:58 AM, Nick Wedd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I still haven't fixed a date for the August KGS bot tournament. The problem is, on Monday August 4th I am setting off for the EGC in Sweden. Many strong European players a

Re: [computer-go] cotsen open will be on september 20-21'st (computers are welcome to enter)

At 03:08 AM 7/11/2008, you wrote: In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ray Tayek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes The dates for the Cotsen Go Tournament have been decided. The tournament will be held on September 20 and 21 at the Tom Bradley International Hall on the UCLA campus. This is the same locati