Hi Don,
Yes, there would be as many different approaches as people.
I also agree that the KGS tournaments and CGOS have contributed a
lot. But don't underestimate the influence of idea-sharing. Both GNU-
Go and the many research papers about UCT/MC have contributed a lot,
both by getting knowledge out and people in (volved). IMO more even
than the online tournaments. But it's hard to quantify these things
I also think that in the past the Ing competition has boosted
computer-Go more than anything since. And that with only 1/10th of
the money in my 'proposal'.
Mark
On 28-jul-08, at 11:06, Don Dailey wrote:
Hi Mark,
I like your basic idea very much (minor details aside of
course.) I think 2 things have been largely responsible for the
sudden increase in the strength of computer go programs:
1. Nicks KGS tournaments.
2. CGOS
And your idea is an extension and improvement of these 2 things.
I don't agree with all the details, but probably no 2 people would!
- Don
Mark Boon wrote:
It's a question I have often contemplated. I don't think you can do
anything now that will greatly influence what the level in 2010 will
be. You have to think a little longer term. What it takes is fairly
simple, it takes a million bucks per year (roughly). Getting that
million bucks is not so simple, but if I had it to spend on
computer-Go, here's what I'd do:
- Use a system like CGOS to create an online testing system /
community.
- At some predetermined date the top n programs (say 16) get a
standard state-of-the-art PC to work on.
- Half a year later those 16 programs play an extensive tournament
using the standard hardware.
- Prize-money is $100K, $80K, $60K, $40K and $20K for the top five.
- All participants contribute their source-code to an open-source
project created for this event.
- The cost of organising the competition above is about $500K per
year, the other $500K is spent on hiring a team of expert programmers
who incorporate the contributions of the competing programs into an
open-source framework.
This is sketchy and lacks some vital details, but you get the idea.
The main points are
a) Everybody starts from an equal base each year.
b) The PC used is a standardized piece of equipment.
c) The prize-money is enough to make people turn in their source-
code.
Since coming in 2nd or 3rd isnt much less an achievement as coming in
1st, the prize-money is also not much less.
With a competition like this in place, I think the progress in a
decade will be astounding.
Now we have to find a sugar-daddy who's willing to put in the $1M
each year :-)
Mark
On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Darren Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
I have a strong interest in seeing a 19x19 computer go program
that is
at least 3-dan by 2010. The recent jump in strength on the 9x9
board has
given me new hope and I want to ask people here, especially the
authors
of strong programs, what you now need to make the next jump in
strength.
There seem to be four broad categories:
* More hardware (CPU cycles? Memory? Faster networking? Do you just
need that hardware for offline tuning, or for playing too?)
* More data
* New algorithms (if so, to solve exactly what? evaluation?
search? other?)
* More community
By community I mean things like this mailing list, CGOS, open source
projects, etc.
By data I mean things like: game records, or board positions,
marked up
with correct/incorrect moves; game records generally; pattern
libraries;
test suites; opening libraries.
Darren
--
Darren Cook, Software Researcher/Developer
http://dcook.org/mlsn/ (English-Japanese-German-Chinese-Arabic
open source dictionary/semantic network)
http://dcook.org/work/ (About me and my work)
http://darrendev.blogspot.com/ (blog on php, flash, i18n,
linux, ...)
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