Re: Stus-List C&C nameplate envy

2016-01-17 Thread Jake Brodersen via CnC-List
lt;mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Joel Aronson <mailto:joel.aron...@gmail.com> Subject: Stus-List C&C nameplate envy With all the discussion about new nameplates I decided to clean up my aluminum plates that are about 2 x 3 inches. Bought some Testor model paint and redid the le

Re: Stus-List C&C nameplate envy

2016-01-17 Thread Joel Aronson via CnC-List
Didn't take any. Too damn cold now. Nothing that remarkable in any event. Joel On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 9:00 PM, Jim Watts via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Pictures? > > Jim Watts > Paradigm Shift > C&C 35 Mk III > Victoria, BC > > On 16 January 2016 at 13:09, Joel Aronson via CnC

Re: Stus-List C&C nameplate envy

2016-01-16 Thread Jim Watts via CnC-List
Pictures? Jim Watts Paradigm Shift C&C 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 16 January 2016 at 13:09, Joel Aronson via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > With all the discussion about new nameplates I decided to clean up my > aluminum plates that are about 2 x 3 inches. Bought some Testor model >

Re: Stus-List C&C nameplate envy

2016-01-16 Thread John Irvin via CnC-List
No sniffing! -Original Message- From: "Joel Aronson via CnC-List" Sent: ‎2016-‎01-‎16 4:10 PM To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" Cc: "Joel Aronson" Subject: Stus-List C&C nameplate envy With all the discussion about new nameplates I decided to clean up my a

Stus-List C&C nameplate envy

2016-01-16 Thread Joel Aronson via CnC-List
With all the discussion about new nameplates I decided to clean up my aluminum plates that are about 2 x 3 inches. Bought some Testor model paint and redid the lettering. Sanded the excess and the crud with 400 grit paper. Hadn't bought Testor paint since I was a kid. Joel 35/3 Annapolis -- Jo

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-13 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
4 missing characters to repair my plates, but yours look sharper. > > Allen Miles > C&C 30+\ > Hampton, VA > > *From:* Gary Russell via CnC-List > *Sent:* Thursday, January 07, 2016 9:58 AM > *To:* C&C List > *Cc:* Gary Russell > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List C&am

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-13 Thread allen via CnC-List
Cc: Gary Russell Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate Well, I have finally completed the CAD models for the port and starboard sides. On to fabrication. They can be viewed at: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwQRSP2fYIFmUGNjTlM1YVRKdnc&usp=sharing Gary S/V High Maintenance

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-07 Thread Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List
Gary Looks good to me. Nice job. Can't wait to see the finished product. Tom B At 08:12 AM 1/7/2016, you wrote: Message: 12 Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 09:58:53 -0500 From: Gary Russell To: "C&C List" Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate Message-ID: Content-Ty

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-07 Thread Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Nicely done. Would you mind sharing the cad file too? Thanks, Josh On Jan 7, 2016 10:00 AM, "Gary Russell via CnC-List" wrote: > Well, I have finally completed the CAD models for the port and starboard > sides. On to fabrication. They can be viewed at: > > > https://drive.google.com/foldervie

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-06 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
Hi Tom, Wow, your nameplates are in really good shape. They don't look like acrylic. It's obviously a material that stands up better. I have made some improvements to my model since yesterday and now includes the "R". See: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwQRSP2fYIFmN21SUk9qZTVleVE/view?u

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-06 Thread Chuck S via CnC-List
Ken, I like the last version, best because it looks the cleanest and easiest to read. My 2 cents. - Original Message - From: "Ken Heaton via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Ken Heaton" Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 5:28:00 AM Subject: Re: Stus-L

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-06 Thread Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List
Beautiful day here on Vashon Island. High 40's and sunny! Great excuse for a walk down to Alera, for sure! As promised. Looks like the paint on the raised portion is all wore off. But aside from that they are in pretty good shape. Dimensions are 19 3/8" X 2." Also the bottom edge appears

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-06 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
; wrote: > > Nice image. Since you asked, the sword could be longer, and a + should be > added > > > Chuck > Resolute > 1990 C&C 34R > Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md > > -- > *From: *"Gary Russell via CnC-List" > *To

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-06 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
Cool! Gary ~~~_/)~~ On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > I'll be heading down to Alera this afternoon to drop off my dehumidifier > and will take the time to undo the dodger and take some pictures of the > Nameplate. Since it has

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-06 Thread Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List
I'll be heading down to Alera this afternoon to drop off my dehumidifier and will take the time to undo the dodger and take some pictures of the Nameplate. Since it has been under a dodger or winter cover for most of the time, it's in fairly pristine condition. Tom B Tom Buscaglia SV Alera 1

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-06 Thread Ken Heaton via CnC-List
>>> >>> Seems like you should have the + on there, as the 37 is a completely >>> different boat. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> Bill Coleman >>> >>> C&C 39 Erie PA &g

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-06 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
t; >> Regards, >> >> >> >> Bill Coleman >> >> C&C 39 Erie PA >> >> >> >> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary >> Russell via CnC-List >> *Sent:* Tuesday, Janu

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-06 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
d > > > Chuck > Resolute > 1990 C&C 34R > Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md > > -- > *From: *"Gary Russell via CnC-List" > *To: *"C&C List" > *Cc: *"Gary Russell" > *Sent: *Tuesday, January 5, 2016 4:50

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-06 Thread Ken Heaton via CnC-List
t; >> On Jan 6, 2016, at 12:01 AM, Chuck S via CnC-List >> wrote: >> >> Nice image. Since you asked, the sword could be longer, and a + should >> be added >> >> >> Chuck >> Resolute >> 1990 C&C 34R >> Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md >&

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-06 Thread Josh Muckley via CnC-List
-- > *From: *"Gary Russell via CnC-List" > *To: *"C&C List" > *Cc: *"Gary Russell" > *Sent: *Tuesday, January 5, 2016 4:50:20 PM > *Subject: *Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate > > I have created a CAD file of the s

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-06 Thread Gary W. Russell via CnC-List
gt; Nice image. Since you asked, the sword could be longer, and a + should be > added > > > Chuck > Resolute > 1990 C&C 34R > Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md > > From: "Gary Russell via CnC-List" > To: "C&C List" > Cc: "Gary R

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-05 Thread Chuck S via CnC-List
t: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 4:50:20 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate I have created a CAD file of the starboard side nameplate. I welcome your opinions and criticism. You may see it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwQRSP2fYIFmR3dFbllPdXZ6aHc/view?usp=sharing It's only the s

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-05 Thread Gary W. Russell via CnC-List
a future there - ! >> >> >> >> Seems like you should have the + on there, as the 37 is a completely >> different boat. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> Bill Coleman >> >> C&C 39 Erie PA >> >> &g

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-05 Thread Gary W. Russell via CnC-List
; >> Seems like you should have the + on there, as the 37 is a completely >> different boat. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> Bill Coleman >> >> C&C 39 Erie PA >> >> >> >> From: CnC-

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-05 Thread Josh Muckley via CnC-List
A > > > > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary > Russell via CnC-List > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 4:50 PM > *To:* C&C List > *Cc:* Gary Russell > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate > > > > I

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-05 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
+ on there, as the 37 is a completely > different boat. > > > > Regards, > > > > Bill Coleman > > C&C 39 Erie PA > > > > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary > Russell via CnC-List > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05,

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-05 Thread Bill Coleman via CnC-List
sday, January 05, 2016 4:50 PM To: C&C List Cc: Gary Russell Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate I have created a CAD file of the starboard side nameplate. I welcome your opinions and criticism. You may see it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwQRSP2fYIFmR3dFbllPdXZ6aHc/view

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-05 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
I have created a CAD file of the starboard side nameplate. I welcome your opinions and criticism. You may see it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwQRSP2fYIFmR3dFbllPdXZ6aHc/view?usp=sharing It's only the starboard side (so far), but all the symbols and characters are individual component

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem

2016-01-05 Thread Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem Chuck, I called Edson, and while the rep (Gene?) I talked to was quite pleasant to talk to, in the end he was no help at all. They have a steel plate, but they refuse to sell it or any other naked plate to

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem

2016-01-05 Thread S Thomas via CnC-List
Gilchrest via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Chuck Gilchrest Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 10:35 Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem Steve, Just 2 cents from a former Edsonite (10+ years). When replacing the Idler plate and uprig

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-04 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
Hi Josh, The dimensions I have are 21-3/16"L x 2"H x 1/4"T. If using acrylic, I would definitely recommend VHB tape. It is terrific stuff for acrylic and gelcoat. Gary ~~~_/)~~ On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > I may hav

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-04 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
David, That is a wonderful offer! I took a rubbing today, but some of the characters have already fallen of, making the job more difficult. Undaunted, I am making slow progress on a 3D model (Sketchup) and will forward a model as soon as complete, Thanks so much, Gary ~~~_/)~~ On

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem

2016-01-04 Thread Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List
To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Cc:* Chuck Gilchrest > *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 10:35 > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem > > Steve, > > Just 2 cents from a former Edsonite (10+ years). When replacing the Idler > plate and up

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-04 Thread Edd Schillay via CnC-List
Another image here: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8ncgfJY9pQA/VgmVGfqTmTI/CYE/rrmhbOPv2fA/s1600/Dockside-Enterprise-Corsair-Aurora.jpg All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-04 Thread Edd Schillay via CnC-List
Mine was falling apart — and went a different route. Made an acrylic “plate” and applied vinyl lettering. See: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1vuP0l_YcJk/Vgmap0k63PI/CYk/5K3HL8Kbgn8/s1600/CaptainsCove.jpg Easy, very inexpensive, result. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enter

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-04 Thread Josh Muckley via CnC-List
I may have missed the message or dropped the ball last year. Sorry folks. The one on Ken's boat is aftermarket and is held on with 2 screws, one at each end. The way I imagined one being made and installed was that the original plaque would be ground flush and the new metal plate fitted over top

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem

2016-01-04 Thread S Thomas via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 10:35 Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem Steve, Just 2 cents from a former Edsonite (10+ years). When replacing the Idler plate and uprights on a “vintage” crossed wire idler, the original plates were made of painted

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem

2016-01-04 Thread S Thomas via CnC-List
Cc: "Bill Connon" Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 07:41 Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem S Thomas via CnC-List wrote: Steve Thomas C&C36 MKI Merritt Island, FL Steve, Could you send me a copy of the file that you're trying to

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem

2016-01-04 Thread S Thomas via CnC-List
Thanks Neil. Got them, and replied off list. - Original Message - From: Neil Gallagher via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Neil Gallagher Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 11:02 Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem Steve,

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-04 Thread david via CnC-List
This topic came up last year and I will put forward the same offer. I own / work at a shop that has CNC machining capability and 3D solid modeling expertise. We work with solid models every day. My engineer is also an enthusiast of 3D printing and last year bought his own printer, although I am n

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem

2016-01-04 Thread Neil Gallagher via CnC-List
;mailto:njgallag...@optonline.net> *Sent:* Monday, January 04, 2016 10:03 *Subject:* Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem Steve, Not sure of just what .dwg you're referring to, but I was able to create a .pdf file by downloading one of the Autocad

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-04 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
Fair enough! Gary ~~~_/)~~ On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > I'll see what I can do. No promises. > > Josh > On Jan 4, 2016 7:18 AM, "Gary Russell via CnC-List" > wrote: > >> Josh, >> If you are going to make a drawing, it

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem

2016-01-04 Thread Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List
, Chuck Gilchrest Half Magic 1975 25 Mk 1 Orion 1983 35 Landfall Padanaram MA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:01 AM To: C&C List Cc: Josh Muckley Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Namepla

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem

2016-01-04 Thread S Thomas via CnC-List
or me. Thanks, Steve Thomas C&C27 MKIII Port Stanley, ON C&C36 MKI Merritt Island, FL - Original Message - From: Neil Gallagher via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Neil Gallagher Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 10:03 Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Namepla

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem

2016-01-04 Thread Neil Gallagher via CnC-List
eve Thomas C&C36 MKI Merritt Island, FL - Original Message - *From:* Gary Russell via CnC-List <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> *To:* C&C List <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> *Cc:* Gary Russell <mailto:captnga...@gmail.com> *Sent:* Sunday, January 03,

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem

2016-01-04 Thread Josh Muckley via CnC-List
ble price. > > Steve Thomas > C&C36 MKI > Merritt Island, FL > > - Original Message ----- > *From:* Gary Russell via CnC-List > *To:* C&C List > *Cc:* Gary Russell > *Sen

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-04 Thread Josh Muckley via CnC-List
I'll see what I can do. No promises. Josh On Jan 4, 2016 7:18 AM, "Gary Russell via CnC-List" wrote: > Josh, > If you are going to make a drawing, it would be best to make it in > AutoCAD or Sketchup (free). > > http://www.sketchup.com/download > > Gary > > ~~~_/)~~ > > > On Mon, J

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem

2016-01-04 Thread Bill Connon via CnC-List
S Thomas via CnC-List wrote: To any lister with AutoCAD experience: The plate holding the cable idler sheaves that bolts to the bottom of the Edson steering pedestal on my recent C&C36 purchase has almost completely disintegrated. I downloaded a .dwg drawing of the assembly from the Edson web

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-04 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
Josh, If you are going to make a drawing, it would be best to make it in AutoCAD or Sketchup (free). http://www.sketchup.com/download Gary ~~~_/)~~ On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > When the topic came up in the past, it

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-04 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
Good point Russ. A CNC machine for a CNC yacht.😀 Gary ~~~_/)~~ On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:18 AM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > It's pretty obvious we have to go with Gary's idea of using the friends > CNC machine. > > Do we need to spell it out... C N C m

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-04 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
Hi Josh, I think that would be very useful. Once we have that we can create a CAD file and then we can make the nameplate out of any material we want. My friend has a small CNC machine and a 3D printer. The milling machine probably cannot mill stainless steel, just softer materials like plas

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate - Now printing dwg file problem

2016-01-04 Thread S Thomas via CnC-List
Cc: Gary Russell Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2016 22:56 Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate Dennis, Interesting idea. The file is the problem, however. Gary ~~~_/)~~ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-03 Thread Russ & Melody via CnC-List
It's pretty obvious we have to go with Gary's idea of using the friends CNC machine. Do we need to spell it out... C N C machine? Ha ha ha. Cheers, Russ It's late now, getting tired. At 07:51 PM 03/01/2016, you wrote: UPS has 3D printing services. If one of you creates the file, s

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-03 Thread Josh Muckley via CnC-List
When the topic came up in the past, it seemed like most people were looking for polished stainless steel similar to what Ken has. I'm a little apprehensive about how plastic will look as well as how well it will hold up. I'm not familiar with "part programs" but I can probably come up with a line

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-03 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
Dennis, Interesting idea. The file is the problem, however. Gary ~~~_/)~~ On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 10:51 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > UPS has 3D printing services. If one of you creates the file, several can > get them made at their local UPS store.

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-03 Thread Dennis C. via CnC-List
UPS has 3D printing services. If one of you creates the file, several can get them made at their local UPS store. Dennis C. On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 8:35 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > You can make out the dagger in some of the pictures at the following > link. A

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-03 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
Hi Josh, I have a friend with a CNC milling machine. If we can create a realistic part program, we can mill them out of a single sheet of 1/4" acrylic. The original is made of acrylic with the letters and numbers and star glued on. This would be all one piece so it should be more durable. T

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-03 Thread Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Yeah Gary, The old looking pictures are my boat. The new ones are Ken Heaton's. This subject has come up at least twice since I've been a member of the list. This makes the third. Everyone is pretty convinced that Ken has the best nameplate. All of the 37+'ers seem up for a bulk order of namep

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-03 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
Hi Joseph, I tried the South Shore website, but no luck. Copying the star on the bow is a good idea, except it is covered with shrink wrap at the moment. Thanks, Gary ~~~_/)~~ On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 9:48 PM, Joseph Bognar via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > First thing

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-03 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
Hi Josh, Thanks for the pics. Are they from your boat. Looks like you could use a new one as well. Perhaps I should go into business selling them. Gary ~~~_/)~~ On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 9:35 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > You can make out the dagg

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-03 Thread Joseph Bognar via CnC-List
First thing . Is that the C&C Star that you are referring to ? Is it the same size as the one on the bow? You can transfer it and then re size it . South Shore Yachts may have the original in stock too Sent from Joe Bognar > On Jan 3, 2016, at 9:35 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List > wrote: >

Re: Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-03 Thread Josh Muckley via CnC-List
You can make out the dagger in some of the pictures at the following link. A simple graphics editor can bring it out and turn it into a pattern. Let me know if you need help. I can probably do it if I find time. https://drive.google.com/folder/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yUklxR0VXQUd0WjA/edit Josh Muckley S/

Stus-List C&C Nameplate

2016-01-03 Thread Gary Russell via CnC-List
I am trying to recreate the acrylic nameplate on the side of the cabin top on my C&C 37 Plus. What I need is a good artwork of the C&C dagger. Can anyone shoot me a good picture of the nameplate or a C&C dagger. TIA, Gary '90 C&C 37 Plus ~~~_/)~~ _