On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Mark Engelberg
wrote:
> What pre-conditions need to be met by the inputs?
> What invariants are maintained by the function?
> What are the performance guarantees of the function?
And this can't be expressed in a single sentence?
> Many times there are dozens of f
As a counterexample to these statements consider proxy, genclass, and
it's ilk ---
I don't think reading the source is good enough to totally understand
the purpose behind those functions.
There's also the issue of providing examples in the doc string.
What's more clear,
"
Associates a value
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:05 AM, Sean Corfield wrote:
> Most people who read my code have said it reads like poetry...
Poetry takes a complex message and packs it into as few words as
possible, resulting in something so cryptic and enigmatic that people
bicker endlessly about what subtle meanings
There are some performance numbers on different serialization
libraries here: http://wiki.github.com/eishay/jvm-serializers/
Jackson is a Java JSON library and it seems to do pretty well in those
benchmarks.
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 22:01, Michael Ossareh wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 19:50,
just as a followup .. this is the solution I got from hoek when I reposted
it on the irc
(defn emit-giws-xml [c]
(let [package (.getPackage c)
methods (map #(hash-map :name (.getName %)
:returnType (str (.getName (.getReturnType %)))
Hello Stuart, sorry to answer so late, got holidays, happily.
I tried to use the function extenders to list the implementations, so
to say, of the protocol.
That was playing around, not a use case taken from reality. If I try
to make a use case up, hm, I may need it in the development
environment,
Hello,
I still try to read my way through Paul Grahams "On Lisp", and always
think how to motivate this stuff to my fellow Java people. How do I
describe what it is all about in this "Code is Data", and "Macros let
you grow your own language towards the problem" stuff?
[Why? Well, maybe I read to
Actually, this metaphor has been used before. Check
http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/lisp.html for an other version of
your story ;).
2010/9/8 alux :
> Hello,
>
> I still try to read my way through Paul Grahams "On Lisp", and always
> think how to motivate this stuff to my fellow Java people. How
Hello Joop,
thanks for the link. So it seems not to be completely misled ;-)
Greetings, alux
On 8 Sep., 11:59, Joop Kiefte wrote:
> Actually, this metaphor has been used before.
> Checkhttp://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/lisp.htmlfor an other version of
> your story ;).
>
> 2010/9/8 alux :
>
>
> Thank you Mark Downie for recommending OpenCL, I'll start playing
> around with it. As for accessing the c libraries directly, I'm afraid
> I don't know much about JNI to do it from clojure. Do you or anyone
> know of a good way to start with JNI in clojure?
If you are going to use a straight
I seem to recall that 1.2 is using "chunked" lazy sequences for
performance reasons, and fib is a lazy sequence. I wonder if you'd
start seeing intermediate steps using (fib 20) instead of (fib 3)?
m
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Scott Jaderholm wrote:
> Why does c.c.trace give different outpu
Very interesting concept, thank you for sharing.
Francesco
On Sep 8, 3:39 am, Mikhail Kryshen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have recently published Indyvon -- an experimental multithreaded GUI
> library for Clojure. The main idea behind the library is that base UI
> element (called "layer") does not defi
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Mark Nutter wrote:
> I seem to recall that 1.2 is using "chunked" lazy sequences for
> performance reasons, and fib is a lazy sequence. I wonder if you'd
> start seeing intermediate steps using (fib 20) instead of (fib 3)?
This fib doesn't look lazy to me so I don'
The first rule of open dispatch club is "you never get a complete list of club
members." :-) This is also true for e.g. Java interfaces: there is no API call
for "reflectively show me all implementers of this interface."
The IDE/tools use case is a real one, but it will need to be solved in the
I found the easiest way to introduce macros is just to introduce them
as small syntactic sugaring. For example, getting rid of the explicit
(fn [] ...) for macros like (with-open file ...).
Once people get accustomed to this, they naturally extend it to more
and more complicated usages.
-Patrick
Hi Patrick,
yes, I think thats the right way to teach this stuff. My problem
arises earlier - I still have to motivate my collegues, to get them
interested, and, maybe, teach them later ;-)
Regards, alux
On 8 Sep., 16:28, CuppoJava wrote:
> I found the easiest way to introduce macros is just to
Ah I see. Yes, motivation is hard. I don't have any good tips for
that. I remember when I was trying to learn Lisp. Even though I
desperately *wanted* to like Lisp, it still took a few tries before I
started to appreciate it.
Good luck!
-Patrick
On Sep 8, 11:07 am, alux wrote:
> Hi Patrick,
>
>
Hi,
On 8 Sep., 17:07, alux wrote:
> yes, I think thats the right way to teach this stuff. My problem
> arises earlier - I still have to motivate my collegues, to get them
> interested, and, maybe, teach them later ;-)
Then I wouldn't stress macros at all. Just mention them later on -
"Oh! And b
Hi Stu,
I like your "open dispatch club" ;-)
Yes, after some thinking this is rather clear - every single something
had to be scanned whether it implements a protocol; ehm, and rescanned
when a new protocol is defined.
Well, I drop that request ;-)
Thank you for the illumination,
alux
On 8 Se
Hello Meikel,
I agree with all the points you suggest to mention, and I do so.
Nevertheless I will get (and got, so this is not hypothetic) the
question:
"But why do they use this intolerable strange syntax? Why cant this be
in a usual (C-like) syntax?"
And here (thats my state of understanding)
Hi,
My main motivation to get away from Java as much as possible was the code
size. I was tired of having to write tons of code lines for what I considered
mundane things. Using wizards was not satisfactory to me. The generated code
size is significant and still it has to be maintained either by h
Dear all,
Clojure 1.2.0
(deftype A [ ^{:unsynchronized-mutable true} foo ]
Object
(hashCode
[x] (set! foo :foo)
This was actually the article that finally got me to overcome the
inertia and start exploring lisp, as a long-time native Java speaker.
I gave up again in a few weeks, but the possibilities excited me, and
when I found Clojure I was delighted with the number of things that
were better than lisp, as
Are you using the release version of 1.2.0? I get the behavior you
describe when I use a snapshot of 1.2.0 from when I built from source,
but when I use lein repl in a project with a dependency on 1.2.0, all
three forms fail with the same exception.
On Sep 8, 9:44 am, Nicolas Oury wrote:
> Dear a
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Alan wrote:
> Are you using the release version of 1.2.0? I get the behavior you
> describe when I use a snapshot of 1.2.0 from when I built from source,
> but when I use lein repl in a project with a dependency on 1.2.0, all
> three forms fail with the same excepti
I happened to be looking at the source for clojure.core/juxt, and I
was a little surprised by the way it handles 4+ arguments
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Sorry, Google posted this before I was done. Anyway, it looks like:
(defn juxt
([f g h & fs]
(let [fs (list* f g h fs)]
...)))
Is there a reason to do that instead of the following?
(defn juxt
([& fs]
...))
On Sep 8, 11:02 am, Alan wrote:
> I happened to be looking at the sou
Hello Luc,
what you say is of course completely true. Nevertheless it seems true
for Scala too. And now I come with a new language again. The curious
people in my team (well, or its the one with enough spare time :)
already had some look into Scala, and I think I need additional
arguments make the
Hello Alan,
yes, the map function. This is one of the places where you type until
ypur fingers bleed in other languages.
By the way, http://www.norvig.com/design-patterns/ seems to be a
interesting read on the topic. I still havent read it (on the
hotlist), but Norvig is said to show that a bunch
Hi Alan,
this is one of the places where clojure.core is not written in what I
would called idiomatic Clojure. The reason is speed. Rich Hickey is
very eager to speed up the libraries, and what you see in juxt is one
of the verbose speedup tricks.
Regards, alux
On 8 Sep., 20:06, Alan wrote:
> S
alux wrote ..
> Hello Luc,
>
> what you say is of course completely true. Nevertheless it seems true
> for Scala too. And now I come with a new language again. The curious
> people in my team (well, or its the one with enough spare time :)
> already had some look into Scala, and I think I need ad
Is there a monolithic standalone contrib jar out there? A download &
forget type of thing?
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Hi,
Have you followed the Download link from clojure.org ?
2010/9/8 Sean Devlin :
> Is there a monolithic standalone contrib jar out there? A download &
> forget type of thing?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Clojure" group.
> To post to this
Yep. It downloaded a zip file, which needed built. Maven broke. I
really don't want to mess with maven right now. I just want a contrib
JAR.
On Sep 8, 3:22 pm, Laurent PETIT wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Have you followed the Download link from clojure.org ?
>
> 2010/9/8 Sean Devlin :
>
> > Is there a mon
look in the target/ dir of the zip ...
2010/9/8 Sean Devlin :
> Yep. It downloaded a zip file, which needed built. Maven broke. I
> really don't want to mess with maven right now. I just want a contrib
> JAR.
>
> On Sep 8, 3:22 pm, Laurent PETIT wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Have you followed the Downl
On Sep 7, 9:00 am, Thomas wrote:
> I've also been using my own version of a map-to-values function
> extensively and it would be really nice to have something like that,
> either in contrib or in core. It comes in handy surprisingly often.
+1
I find myself writing functions like map-values and f
Laurent,
Thank you for the specific help.
Rich/Core
This is WAY TOO MUCH WORK. The first entries on the download page
should be just .JARs, and then below that you could have the zip files
you have now. Also, the simple version should be bigger. Here's the
rough idea of what I mean
Clojure
C
On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 15:13:57 -0400 (EDT)
lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca wrote:
> I cannot help you much here. I looked at Scala nearly two years ago while
> searching for a JVM alternative to Java. I already knew Lisp and wanted
> a generic macro facility but I was not convinced by Scala even before
>
On Sep 6, 4:43 pm, Meikel Brandmeyer wrote:
> You can use qualified keywords with an hierarchy.
>
> (def your-hierarchy
> (-> (make-hierarchy)
> (derive ::hello ::anything)
> (derive ::world ::anything)
> (derive ::city ::anything)
> (derive ::us ::anything)))
Building your own
Suppose you have a class projects.test.A:
package projects.test;
public class A
{
public A(){super();}
public boolean y;
public boolean $z;
}
and I want to use set to update both values:
user=> (def m (A.)) ; Create a ref m to new instance of A
#'user/m
user=> (set! (. m y) true)
So actually it looks like I need to understand type theory to
understand this.
Thanks,
Mohan
On Sep 7, 7:04 pm, Nicolas Oury wrote:
> > ...and report your findings here or blog somewhere if you don't mind
> > :) I've been reading a lot about monads lately and can't get my head
> > around it yet
Rich does a fine job of explaining macros here:
http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Going+Deep/Expert-to-Expert-Rich-Hickey-and-Brian-Beckman-Inside-Clojure
See minutes 23 to 25. The macro concept is not complicated, it should
not be hard to explain to someone. The benefits of code writing code
should b
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 08:17, CuppoJava wrote:
> Ah I see. Yes, motivation is hard. I don't have any good tips for
> that.
I'm still a noob at the evangelising part of Lisp! However, when it comes to
clojure, I tell Java people it's a better way of writing Java than Java; it
gives you all the t
Hi,
I'm new to Clojure. This is also my first time posting here.
When I use REPL and print something out, I always get a nil printed.
For example, (print "Clojure"), I got: clojurenil. Where does the nil
come from?
Thanks a lot!
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I felt the same way until I realized that downloading clojure straight from the
web page was pretty much me "doing it wrong" or attempting to use the "custom
install" that I wasn't ready to do yet (not knowing what I was doing).
Leiningen is the "easy" way to get clojure, contrib, everything el
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Sean wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm new to Clojure. This is also my first time posting here.
> When I use REPL and print something out, I always get a nil printed.
> For example, (print "Clojure"), I got: clojurenil. Where does the nil
> come from?
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
Try
On Wed, 8 Sep 2010 11:26:38 -0700 (PDT)
Sean wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm new to Clojure. This is also my first time posting here.
> When I use REPL and print something out, I always get a nil printed.
> For example, (print "Clojure"), I got: clojurenil. Where does the nil
> come from?
REPL stands for
This. And to clarify, in case it's unclear: every function in Clojure
must return a value - there are no "void" functions as in Java. print
and println, therefore, in addition to printing their data, must
return something (they choose nil), and the REPL always prints out the
return value of whateve
I'm pleased to announce the release of Leiningen 1.3.1. This release
fixes a few key bugs and introduces a handful of minor features. Here
are the highlights.
Bug Fixes:
* Performing a standalone install (a new feature of Leiningen 1.3.0)
now pulls in all transitive dependencies.
* Unreadable in
The c.c.json lib was rewritten in January by Stuart Sierra to
incorporate the missing features present in Dan Larkin's lib, and make
it faster.
This was when it switched from c.c.j.read/write to c.c.json.
I switched to c.c.json around that time, and I've been happy with it
as a substitute.
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Phil Hagelberg wrote:
> I'm pleased to announce the release of Leiningen 1.3.1.
Thanx Phil!
> * repl task may be used outside the context of a project.
Very useful!
> * Regexes may be used to specify namespaces in :aot list.
Also very useful!
--
Sean A Corfiel
Until you don't want to deal with maven, and just need a jar. Like if
you're installing Enclojure & just want the stupid jars.
On Sep 8, 3:42 pm, buckmeist...@gmail.com wrote:
> I felt the same way until I realized that downloading clojure straight from
> the web page was pretty much me "doing i
Try using reflection to print out what the JVM thinks the field's name
is. This might help.
On Sep 8, 1:23 am, Jon Seltzer wrote:
> Suppose you have a class projects.test.A:
>
> package projects.test;
>
> public class A
> {
> public A(){super();}
> public boolean y;
> public boolean $z;
>
I strongly support any initiative that does not assume maven is a given.
-Rgds, Adrian.
On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 5:03 AM, Sean Devlin wrote:
> Until you don't want to deal with maven, and just need a jar. Like if
> you're installing Enclojure & just want the stupid jars.
>
> On Sep 8, 3:42 pm, bu
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Mark Engelberg
wrote:
> Files:
> Many times there are dozens of functions that are interrelated. Only
> one or two of them are the crucially important "entry points" that
> provide the high-level API. The rest are mostly helper functions that
> implement the lowe
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Sean Devlin wrote:
> Rich/Core
> This is WAY TOO MUCH WORK. The first entries on the download page
> should be just .JARs, and then below that you could have the zip files
> you have now. Also, the simple version should be bigger. Here's the
> rough idea of what
I think Leiningen does a great job of hiding maven. I initially wanted
to avoid Leiningen because of maven and when I was putting together
cfmljure (as a way to introduce Clojure to CFML developers :) I
initially documented the download ZIP, unzip, copy JARs approach but
then I reconsidered and upd
Hello all,
@Luc I'm not a OO adversary, but no evangelist too ;-)
@Mike I think the difference between Scala and Clojure is not OO vs
not OO, but rather static vs dynamic typing. Clojure is OO too, but as
you see with Luc, you can ignore it ;-)
@Adam Cool! A RH-video I want aware of! Thank you!
Hi,
On 8 Sep., 21:49, Daniel Werner
wrote:
> Building your own hierarchy would make it safe to use unqualified
> keywords as well -- if I am not mistaken?
>
> (-> (make-hierarchy)
> (derive :hello :anything)
> ...)
derive works with non-qualified keywords, but the contract disallows
that:
Thanks Phil, the release jars address my concerns.
Just to elaborate on Sean C's post, I think Leiningen is a great
initiative - especially for those new to clojure/java, but for me it
and maven are dissonant with my setup. From various comments on the
list, I suspect there are others who have a s
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 1:18 AM, Mark Engelberg wrote:
> I don't know that I'd be flattered by that comparison :)
LOL. Point well taken :)
> If you ever read an article presenting some new algorithm, data
> structure, etc. in an academic journal, the published article will
> certainly contain som
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:56 PM, Adrian Cuthbertson
wrote:
> - A personal antipathy towards "bloat" and anything that "just gets
> downloaded" without my fully understanding what it is and why it's
> there.
Yes, this is my main objection to maven and why I've resolutely stuck
with ant and managin
2010/9/9 Phil Hagelberg :
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Mark Engelberg
> wrote:
>> Files:
>> Many times there are dozens of functions that are interrelated. Only
>> one or two of them are the crucially important "entry points" that
>> provide the high-level API. The rest are mostly helper f
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:28 AM, CuppoJava wrote:
> I found the easiest way to introduce macros is just to introduce them
> as small syntactic sugaring. For example, getting rid of the explicit
> (fn [] ...) for macros like (with-open file ...).
Interesting. I don't see any real difference between
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:56 PM, Laurent PETIT wrote:
>> Full ack here.
>
> For the non english speaker I am : is this a pun/playword ? (full ack
> <-> f..ck all) ?
I assume he meant "full acknowledgment" -- an expression of agreement.
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