ty - was Re: ENIAC programming Was: release dates of
> early microcomputer operating systems, incl. Intel ISIS
>
> On 2015-09-17 12:44 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> >
> >> > From: Dave Wade
> >>
> >>
> >> > to me a "computer" with
I wrote:
> On Twitter, @hotelzululima suggested Motorola MIKBUG, introduced in
> 1974, but IMO it's a monitor, not an operating system.
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Rich Alderson
wrote:
> So the PDP-6 monitor, which booted from DECtape but had no other dependency
> on that medium, was not an
On 9/17/2015 7:06 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
Clearly that would be silly. Not to mention the RT-11 operating
system, which could boot and run with just DECtape. Or the famous
THE operating system, which boots from paper tape (though it pages to
drum at runtime).
With paper tape, would it not PAS
> On Sep 17, 2015, at 7:17 PM, Rich Alderson
> wrote:
>
> From: Eric Smith
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 12:48 AM
>
>> On Twitter, @hotelzululima suggested Motorola MIKBUG, introduced in
>> 1974, but IMO it's a monitor, not an operating system.
>
> So the PDP-6 monitor, which booted fro
> On Sep 17, 2015, at 5:44 PM, dwight wrote:
>
>
>
>> From: space...@gmail.com
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
>>> It is notable that in order to solve all problems, a computer must permit
>>> self modifying code.
>>
>> From a theory of computation view, I don't bel
From: Eric Smith
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 12:48 AM
> On Twitter, @hotelzululima suggested Motorola MIKBUG, introduced in
> 1974, but IMO it's a monitor, not an operating system.
So the PDP-6 monitor, which booted from DECtape but had no other dependency
on that medium, was not an operati
> From: space...@gmail.com
>
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
> > It is notable that in order to solve all problems, a computer must permit
> > self modifying code.
>
> From a theory of computation view, I don't believe that's true. Any
> computable function can be compute
On Thu, 17 Sep 2015, dwight wrote:
If working on a newer X86 processor, this is necessary, not to protect the
code but because the code is cashed and my not be updated in time for
it to be executed.
Write through is expensive and only provided on the data side, if at all.
Dwight
On some/most ol
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 13:29:34 -0400
> From: t...@telegraphics.com.au
> To: gene...@classiccmp.org; classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> cctalk@classiccmp.org; gene...@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Immutability - was Re: ENIAC programming Was: release dates of early
On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
> It is notable that in order to solve all problems, a computer must permit
> self modifying code.
>From a theory of computation view, I don't believe that's true. Any
computable function can be computed by a fixed program.
For a particular com
> From Dave
> AMD29K isn't "Modern"
Well, compared to the ENIAC it is! :-)
To be serious, the 29K is fully what we now think of as a 'computer'; that's
all I meant by saying it's "modern".
> If you have to use another external mechanism to arbitrarily change the
> program, then
On 09/17/2015 10:51 AM, tony duell wrote:
As a total thread-drift, I have in my hand a machine that anyone
would class as a a programmable calculator. It looks like a
calcualtor, it has key-per-function operation (that is, a 'SIN' key,
etc). And yet...
Back in the day, a friend who worked for
> Crispin Rope concentrates on the power of ENIAC and its usefulness, neither
> of which can be argued with, but to me a "computer" without self-modifying
> code is a programmable calculator even if it has index registers...
As a total thread-drift, I have in my hand a machine that anyone would c
ase dates of early microcomputer
> operating systems, incl. Intel ISIS
>
>
> > > From: Dave Wade
> >
> >
> >
> > > to me a "computer" without self-modifying code is a programmable
> > > calculator even if it has index register
On 2015-09-17 12:44 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> From: Dave Wade
> to me a "computer" without self-modifying code is a programmable
> calculator even if it has index registers...
Most modern computer languages run with the executable instructions in a
"pure code" section, which is
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel
> Chiappa
> Sent: 17 September 2015 13:39
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
> Subject: Re: ENIAC programming Was: release dates of early microcompute
> From: Dave Wade
> to me a "computer" without self-modifying code is a programmable
> calculator even if it has index registers...
Most modern computer languages run with the executable
instructions in a "pure code" section, which is set to be
NOT writeable by the prog
> From: Dave Wade
> Crispin Rope concentrates on the power of ENIAC and its usefulness
Which is why you should look at the longer, later article:
http://eniacinaction.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/EngineeringTheMiracleoftheENIAC-scanned.pdf
in particular the part I pointed out (bott
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel
> Chiappa
> Sent: 16 September 2015 22:06
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
> Subject: Re: ENIAC programming Was: release dates of early microcompute
> From: Al Kossow
>> the machine had to be configured (via connecting up computing units
>> with cables)
> In 1947 ENIAC was modifed at BRL to be a stored program computer.
Well, I did say "in the original ENIAC usage" it had to be configured by
plugging! I was aware of the later
; To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: release dates of early microcomputer operating systems, incl.
> Intel ISIS
>
> On 9/15/15 4:57 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> > the machine had to be configured (via connecting up computing units
> > with cables)
>
> In 1947 ENIAC was modi
> Sent: Tuesday, 15 September, 2015 2:58 PM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: release dates of early microcomputer operating systems, incl.
> Intel ISIS
>
> On 9/15/15 4:57 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> > the machine had to be configured (via connecting up computing units
; Subject: Re: release dates of early microcomputer operating systems, incl.
> Intel ISIS
>
> > From: Dave G4UGM
>
> > although ENIAC first ran a program it was stored as acoustic waves
>
> I don't think ENIAC used acoustic delay storage? Perhaps what you&
On 9/15/15 4:57 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
the machine had to be configured (via connecting up
computing units with cables)
In 1947 ENIAC was modifed at BRL to be a stored program computer.
http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1339839
> From: Dave G4UGM
> although ENIAC first ran a program it was stored as acoustic waves
I don't think ENIAC used acoustic delay storage? Perhaps what you're thinking
of is that in the original ENIAC usage, there was no 'program' as we now
think of that term; the machine had to be configur
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 2:34 AM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
> Looks like FLEX for the 6809 was also 1976...
A neat trick since the 6809 wasn't introduced until 1978. I assume
what is really meant is FLEX for the 6800.
> BUT I don't believe ISIS became an operating system until 1976 when ISIS II
> added
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Eric Smith
> Sent: Tuesday, 15 September, 2015 8:48 AM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>
> Subject: release dates of early microcomputer operating systems,
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
> On Twitter, @hotelzululima suggested Motorola MIKBUG, introduced in
> 1974, but IMO it's a monitor, not an operating system.
Given the constraints of the systems of that time (speed, memory size,
peripheral support) the line between monitor and
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
> I've been searching for introduction dates of early microcomputer
> operating systems
Are you including or excluding systems like the APL-based Intel 8008 MCM/70?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCM/70
circa 1974 - I guess Zbigniew's book might
I've been searching for introduction dates of early microcomputer
operating systems, by which I mean only operating systems that run on
computers using single-chip microprocessors such as 8008, 8080, and
6800, but not the LSI-11, IMP-16, HP 9830, etc.
Intel's ISIS operating system for their MDS wa
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