Hello All!
5 cent's from me
There was Akaros, HarveyOS (ideas not so bad), NIX (kernel).
Modern academia, imho, tries to solve issues in lunix that was
already solved in Plan9.
Modern programming - python (imho another Basic), Rust(? even in kernel?),
NodeJS (who loves it???), Go-lang (we already h
This email suffers from a lack of semicolons;
Bell labs is extremely dead at this point, and
direction comes from people writing code; once
the work begins, people are sometimes willing to
help -- but only once work begins.
Quoth vic.thac...@fastmail.fm:
> Dear 9fans, as enthusiasts and experts o
> I am not a fan of the weird 9front split from the standard repo. I’d prefer
> the sources to be managed by the foundation and would like to only receive
> patches through them.
Are you speaking as part of the foundation? As a developer? Or as a User?
Me, as a user, I would also appreciate if
> [...] then it is not surprising that people
> misunderstand your intentions.
and otherwise, too. you'll just have to adapt your predictions (or
expectations?) a little if you're so frequently surprised.
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Direction comes from people writing code... but you write code for 9front,
yes? What does that have to do with mainline Plan 9? And what does that
have to do with the direction set forth by the people that actually
designed it?
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 7:20 AM wrote:
> This email suffers from a
On 1/25/24 09:35, Don Bailey wrote:
> Direction comes from people writing code... but you write code for 9front,
> yes? What does that have to do with mainline Plan 9? And what does that have
> to do with the direction set forth by the people that actually designed it?
There is no "path for pat
I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.
If 9front becomes the "mainline" 9, I will stop using 9 altogether. Both as
a user and a developer.
I trust the sources that come from 9legacy/9pio but I don't have any
interest in the mess of whatever 9front is supposed to be.
D
On T
Do you have specific issues with our code? All I've seen is vague finger
pointing.
We don't need some authority to point at 9front and say its "mainline", people
see where the effort is going, endorsement or not.
On 1/25/24 10:44, Don Bailey wrote:
> I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't re
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 11:44:34AM -0500, Don Bailey wrote:
> I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.
This tracks. Thanks for your insight.
khm
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You're welcome!
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 12:09 PM Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 11:44:34AM -0500, Don Bailey wrote:
> > I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.
>
> This tracks. Thanks for your insight.
>
> khm
-
The housing situation for IWP9 this year in Philadelphia is not
ideal. It seems there's a big volleyball tournament in town at the
same time, so many hotels have little availability and they're
able to charge high rates. However, we have had one that has said
they can reserve a block of rooms for u
Sounds like you're happy keeping 9front separate from "mainline", then.
Works for me :-)
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 12:20 PM Jacob Moody wrote:
> On 1/25/24 09:35, Don Bailey wrote:
> > Direction comes from people writing code... but you write code for
> 9front, yes? What does that have to do wit
On Jan 25, 2024, at 8:44 AM, Don Bailey wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.
>
> If 9front becomes the "mainline" 9, I will stop using 9 altogether. Both as a
> user and a developer.
>
> I trust the sources that come from 9legacy/9pio but I don't have any i
Cool gaslighting.
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 12:25 PM Bakul Shah wrote:
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 8:44 AM, Don Bailey wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.
> >
> > If 9front becomes the "mainline" 9, I will stop using 9 altogether. Both
> as a user and a develop
It doesn't matter if one is "mainline" or not, you've completely missed the
point of my mail.
One is usable and the other is not. One has a community, the other does not.
One has people
who share source, there other does not. Put your time where your mouth is and
do something
about the sorry sta
Don, you have been gate keeping this whole thread. I see noone agreeing with
you either. We could all be a little kinder to one another, especially since we
all have love for Plan 9.
— thedæmon 🫠
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 11:31 AM, Don Bailey <[don.bai...@gmail.com](mailto:On
Thu, Jan 25, 2024 a
This is incredibly rude and tone-deaf. Your convictions aside, dismissing an
opinion like this is simply stonewalling, and quite frankly obliterated
whatever respect I may have started to develop for you.
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 08:44, Don Bailey wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what all this was, so I
Sometimes gatekeeping is good. It's OK if folks don't agree.
I think it's healthy to create a strict regimen around "mainline". I am not
against 9front doing whatever it wants, I just would prefer if the two did
not merge. It's important to keep the 9 ecosystem stable, imo.
D
On Thu, Jan 25, 202
And if 9front stays 9front, that's fine by me. Do it up :-)
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 1:13 PM Jacob Moody wrote:
> Do you have specific issues with our code? All I've seen is vague finger
> pointing.
> We don't need some authority to point at 9front and say its "mainline",
> people
> see where t
hello from czechia.
make plan9 not war :-)
there are many un*xes, so we can have many distros of plan9 :-)
i have 9front, original plan9 in my virtual machines so i think there's really
no problem.
and anyone can become creator of new distro and use any code he wants :-)
i was thinking about
Cool rant.
D
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 1:50 PM Jacob Moody wrote:
> It doesn't matter if one is "mainline" or not, you've completely missed
> the point of my mail.
> One is usable and the other is not. One has a community, the other does
> not. One has people
> who share source, there other does
Quoth Don Bailey :
> I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.
Are you okay?
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Quoth Don Bailey :
> Cool rant.
It's incredible to me that you can put in so much effort to make sure that
the strength of your convictions is clear, while also putting in so little
effort that nobody wants to be around you long enough to find out what they
actually are.
we've had discussions like this before. I do agree that having a more
"original" Plan 9 option like 9legacy is a good idea. in terms of what that
actually means doing, a lot of the obvious effort would be to go into
turning stuff from 9front into patches for 9legacy. I started to do this to
make a
Quoth Don Bailey :
> Direction comes from people writing code... but you write code for 9front,
> yes? What does that have to do with mainline Plan 9? And what does that
> have to do with the direction set forth by the people that actually
> designed it?
>
I'm not sure I understand the point of y
I'm not sure what a mainline Plan 9 means. Can you define
that term, and tell me who maintains it?
Quoth Don Bailey :
> I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.
>
> If 9front becomes the "mainline" 9, I will stop using 9 altogether. Both as
> a user and a developer.
>
> I tru
Cool assessment, Jung Noam.
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 3:20 PM wrote:
> Quoth Don Bailey :
> > Cool rant.
>
> It's incredible to me that you can put in so much effort to make sure that
> the strength of your convictions is clear, while also putting in so little
> effort that nobody wants to be ar
Quoth Don A. Bailey :
> I’d prefer the sources to be managed by the foundation and would
> like to only receive patches through them.
Speaking as a member of the foundation, we do not manage sources
or distribute patches. We do not maintain a Plan 9 distribution,
and currently have no plans to do
> On 26 Jan 2024, at 07:38, o...@eigenstate.org wrote:
<…>
> If you have specific ways we can support people like you
> taking up the torch and carrying plan 9 development forward,
> please speak up and let us know; I'll ensure that it gets
> discussed at the next P9F meeting.
Is there any recor
Also: We're organizing IWP9 largely as a forum
for folks like you to figure out how to make this
all happen; there's going to be plenty of time
between talks as well as hacking days to figure
out what code needs to be written, what patches
exist in people's local trees, plenty of napkins
(and, if y
Also: We're organizing IWP9 largely as a forum
for folks like you to figure out how to make this
all happen; there's going to be plenty of time
between talks as well as hacking days to figure
out what code needs to be written, what patches
exist in people's local trees, plenty of napkins
(and, if y
I’ve literally never even seen your name before.
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 3:45 PM, Michael Misch wrote:
>
> This is incredibly rude and tone-deaf. Your convictions aside, dismissing an
> opinion like this is simply stonewalling, and quite frankly obliterated
> whatever respect I may have star
Yeah but we don’t necessarily need patches from 9front. The ones of good quality are really already being pulled in. Cinap does a lot of solid work. My only issue is seeing the two maintain a strong delineation, which I obviously prefer.On Jan 25, 2024, at 4:04 PM, Eli Cohen wrote:we've had discu
Quoth David Arnold :
> > On 26 Jan 2024, at 07:38, o...@eigenstate.org wrote:
>
> <…>
>
> > If you have specific ways we can support people like you
> > taking up the torch and carrying plan 9 development forward,
> > please speak up and let us know; I'll ensure that it gets
> > discussed at the
That’s why I use quotes around mainline.
And what you stated is also a big reason I’m not interested in 9front. No idea
what your direction is or what your interests are. I like a lot of the things
done by the core team, and the direction set by them. I’m not interested in
9front.
Seeing a s
I’m aware you’re a member of the foundation.
What I want I think I’ve made clear. I do not want to see a formal release of
Plan 9 that includes anything from the 9front project. I do not want 9front
merged with what I tongue-in-cheek term “mainline” (9legacy / 9pio updated
patch sets). I’d rath
On 1/25/24 16:03, Don A. Bailey wrote:
> I’m aware you’re a member of the foundation.
>
> What I want I think I’ve made clear. I do not want to see a formal release of
> Plan 9 that includes anything from the 9front project. I do not want 9front
> merged with what I tongue-in-cheek term “mainlin
Hard agree.
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 5:30 PM, David Arnold wrote:
>
>
>>
>> On 26 Jan 2024, at 07:38, o...@eigenstate.org wrote:
>
> <…>
>
>> If you have specific ways we can support people like you
>> taking up the torch and carrying plan 9 development forward,
>> please speak up and let us
Last I checked (you) were asking for people to sign up. What’s the actual
attendee count at this point?
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 5:33 PM, o...@eigenstate.org wrote:
>
> Also: We're organizing IWP9 largely as a forum
> for folks like you to figure out how to make this
> all happen; there's going
Great; let me repeat one more time: The Plan 9
foundation does not currently engage in technical
work such as putting together releases. There will
be no release from the P9F including 9front code,
because there will be no release from the P9F.
If you feel the need for a release, I encourage you
t
It’s telling that you see a difference of opinion as a temper tantrum. A major
problem with people’s perspective of 9front and the current plan 9 community,
honestly.
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 6:35 PM, Jacob Moody wrote:
>
> On 1/25/24 16:03, Don A. Bailey wrote:
>> I’m aware you’re a member o
>
> Hold your hand, my lord!
> I have served you ever since I was a child.
> But better service have I never done you
> Than now to bid you hold.
(King Lear, First Servant)
I think it's a mistake to split into factions. The collective is small
enough that it's almost like the joke about someone
On 1/25/24 17:38, Don A. Bailey wrote:
> It’s telling that you see a difference of opinion as a temper tantrum. A
> major problem with people’s perspective of 9front and the current plan 9
> community, honestly.
I didn't see it as a tempter tantrum until you stopped replying in good faith
and
I look forward to not seeing 9front as a part of a formal release, then.
Thanks!
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 7:00 PM, o...@eigenstate.org wrote:
>
> Great; let me repeat one more time: The Plan 9
> foundation does not currently engage in technical
> work such as putting together releases. There wi
I have just one question. Is this concern of 9front code making its way
into the codebase of Plan 9 based on reality? Is there evident cause for
concern?
The 9front developers develop 9front. Plan 9 from Bell Labs is not being
developed, so there’s no “upstream” there is no “mainline” so there’s n
How you react to being told that you are behaving poorly, and it’s neither
appreciated or respected, speaks volumes. It’s telling, as you say, that your
take is to get defensive and, honestly, shitty. Emotional maturity may be
lacking in general on the list but please do not posture from some im
I literally don’t care.
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 8:18 PM, Jacob Moody wrote:
>
> On 1/25/24 17:38, Don A. Bailey wrote:
>> It’s telling that you see a difference of opinion as a temper tantrum. A
>> major problem with people’s perspective of 9front and the current plan 9
>> community, honestly
I don’t think you realize that you have your entire emotional perception of
this situation flipped.
This was a simple comment on why I strongly disagreed with VT’s request for a
5th Release. I explained myself. I did not get emotional, nor am I emotional
now. What I did receive is a lot of str
Since the Plan 9 Foundation doesn't focus on technical aspects, Would the
formation of a Plan 9 Core Team be the next logical step? My understanding is
the core team would decide technical direction and implementation. What are
your thoughts?
--vic
On Fri, Jan 26, 2024, at 11:31, Don A. Bailey
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 10:04 PM wrote:
> Since the Plan 9 Foundation doesn't focus on technical aspects, Would the
> formation of a Plan 9 Core Team be the next logical step? My understanding is
> the core team would decide technical direction and implementation. What are
> your thoughts?
If
On 1/26/24, Don A. Bailey wrote:
> I literally don’t care.
>
Then I don't think you belong here.
If you believe you can excommunicate the majority of Plan 9
contributors (have you counted the members of the "Pure 9" vs "9front"
clans, at all?) by dictum ex cathedra, I think you belong in the
Midd
This is such a weird message coming from the dude that's been spewing
argumentative shit all over everyone's inboxes for the last two days.
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 7:48 PM Don A. Bailey wrote:
> I don’t think you realize that you have your entire emotional perception
> of this situation flipped.
Tough. ❤️
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 10:51 PM, Lucio De Re wrote:
>
> On 1/26/24, Don A. Bailey wrote:
>> I literally don’t care.
>>
> Then I don't think you belong here.
>
> If you believe you can excommunicate the majority of Plan 9
> contributors (have you counted the members of the "Pure 9" v
> I trust the sources that come from 9legacy/9pio but I don't have any
> interest in the mess of whatever 9front is supposed to be.
Nobody asked for your trust. Can you please elaborate which part of
9front you consider "messy" ?
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> This was a simple comment on why I strongly disagreed with VT’s request for
it didn't get displayed as just a simple comment here. maybe you
should fix your email program.
> a 5th Release. I explained myself. I did not get emotional, nor am I
> emotional now.
How is this relevant to the techni
I, for one, will attend, barring any incident.
I will send my submission in a frenzy panic minutes before the deadline,
as one usually does.
"Don A. Bailey" writes:
> Last I checked (you) were asking for people to sign up. What’s the actual
> attendee count at this point?
>
>
>> On Jan 25, 2024
Quoth Edouard Klein :
> I, for one, will attend, barring any incident.
Same!
> I will send my submission in a frenzy panic minutes before the deadline,
> as one usually does.
Hey, same!! :D
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Is there interest in establishing a dedicated Plan 9 Core Team to spearhead its
technical development? When we look at other communities like FreeBSD, they
have both a foundation and a core team, with the latter overseeing the
technical aspects of the project. If this idea resonates with you, th
What would the benefits be of adding hierarchy systems like this?
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 11:26 PM Vester "Vic" Thacker <
vester.thac...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Is there interest in establishing a dedicated Plan 9 Core Team to
> spearhead its technical development? When we look at other communities
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