Re: [Ubuntu-phone] GPS - Navigation app

[Josh Leverette]

OpenStreetMap. Look at OSMAnd. A quality nav program for android that uses
OSM. it's better than Apple maps, at least, haha
On Jul 17, 2013 7:30 AM, "Zisu Andrei"  wrote:

> Well, you could do some lobbying to get that as a core app, but you will
> need a good plan, and it will probably not be until 13.10 though. Probably
> the hardest part is.. Where do you find open navigation information?
>
> On Wednesday, July 17, 2013, Pierre Bornancin wrote:
>
>> That's a pity...
>> Le 17 juil. 2013 14:10, "Zisu Andrei"  a écrit :
>>
>>> You are probably not going to be the only one, but I'm not entirely sure
>>> you will find anyone to join in at the moment.
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 31, 2013, Pierre Bornancin wrote:
>>>

 Hello,

 I am sorry if I am bringing up a subject that has already been
 discussed.

 Let me begin by saying that I am quite excited by the Ubuntu Touch
 project. I definitely think that this tremendous idea and that we are at a
 crucial time for it.

 It seems to me that Ubuntu Touch can be a success only if it is
 complete in terms of functionality when the first phones will appear on the
 market.

 That is why; I am convinced that it absolutely needs to have a
 Navigation application as Android & iOS . It is now considered as a basic
 functionality of any smartphone and not having that could be a showstopper
 for a lot of users.

 I am aware that this kind of application is not simple and requires
 time and good development skills (there is some existing application that
 could maybe be reused: OSMAND?)

 I do not think that Canonical has planned to develop one.

 I am unfortunately not a developer and I have not a lot of spare time
 to help: I can just help with bugs filing and use cases writing.



 But I think that this is something that could be supported by
 crowdfunding  (kickstarter ?). I know I would definitely participate.



 So my questions are: Am I the only one thinking that? Is there someone
 ready to take leadership on this kind of initiative?



 Thank you for your attention.



>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Zisu Andrei
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> Zisu Andrei
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Fwd: GPS - Navigation app

[Josh Leverette]

it truly is excellent.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jul 17, 2013 7:42 AM, "Zisu Andrei"  wrote:

>
>
> Yeah but I guess making it a core app would probably involve more than
> just 'better than apple maps'.
>
> I might just help, if my work schedule.throttles down in the coming weeks,
> that if I dont finally get to working on the music app.
>
> Osm seems to be surprisingly up to date on my home town in eastern europe
> as well as my small suburb in northern england... It even has a lot of
> things that have not been updated in google maps in about 2 years.
>
> On Wednesday, July 17, 2013, Josh Leverette wrote:
>
>> OpenStreetMap. Look at OSMAnd. A quality nav program for android that
>> uses OSM. it's better than Apple maps, at least, haha
>> On Jul 17, 2013 7:30 AM, "Zisu Andrei"  wrote:
>>
>>> Well, you could do some lobbying to get that as a core app, but you will
>>> need a good plan, and it will probably not be until 13.10 though. Probably
>>> the hardest part is.. Where do you find open navigation information?
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 17, 2013, Pierre Bornancin wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's a pity...
>>>> Le 17 juil. 2013 14:10, "Zisu Andrei"  a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> You are probably not going to be the only one, but I'm not entirely
>>>>> sure you will find anyone to join in at the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, May 31, 2013, Pierre Bornancin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am sorry if I am bringing up a subject that has already been
>>>>>> discussed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me begin by saying that I am quite excited by the Ubuntu Touch
>>>>>> project. I definitely think that this tremendous idea and that we are at 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> crucial time for it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems to me that Ubuntu Touch can be a success only if it is
>>>>>> complete in terms of functionality when the first phones will appear on 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> market.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is why; I am convinced that it absolutely needs to have a
>>>>>> Navigation application as Android & iOS . It is now considered as a basic
>>>>>> functionality of any smartphone and not having that could be a 
>>>>>> showstopper
>>>>>> for a lot of users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am aware that this kind of application is not simple and requires
>>>>>> time and good development skills (there is some existing application that
>>>>>> could maybe be reused: OSMAND?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not think that Canonical has planned to develop one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am unfortunately not a developer and I have not a lot of spare time
>>>>>> to help: I can just help with bugs filing and use cases writing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I think that this is something that could be supported by
>>>>>> crowdfunding  (kickstarter ?). I know I would definitely participate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So my questions are: Am I the only one thinking that? Is there
>>>>>> someone ready to take leadership on this kind of initiative?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your attention.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Zisu Andrei
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Zisu Andrei
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> Zisu Andrei
>
>
>
>
> --
> Zisu Andrei
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [feature request/question] Encrypted email/sms support?

[Josh Leverette]

I'm still waiting on the actual native email client to be written. Once
that happens, adding encryption should be relatively trivial. So, whenever
that happens.


On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Mike Bybee  wrote:

> Are there currently any plans to make sure the ubuntu mail app will
> support gpg or some other standard - and likewise for SMS?
> I know right now it just uses webmail, but I'm sure that's not the long
> term goal
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Mike Bybee
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [feature request/question] Encrypted email/sms support?

[Josh Leverette]

Also, I don't see why encrypting SMS would be impossible. You don't send
encrypted SMS to people who can't decrypt them. Since we're talking about
asymmetric encryption anyways, then the only people *you could even think* *
of* sending encrypted SMS to are people for whom you have a public key. If
you don't have a public key for a contact, then obviously you have no
method of encrypting a message to them. But, more importantly, you can
always break up an SMS into multiple SMS as the need arises, so length
isn't an issue as long as the user knows how many messages it will form.


On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Mike Bybee  wrote:

> Well, SMS obviously can't do GPG due to character limits - however, there
> are dozens of varieties of secure SMS tools currently on Android. It seems
> that some variety encryption could be supported by the default client -
> much like OTR for Pidgin, etc.
> Not that it should default to it - that would be awful. But that it should
> be able to have an easy to enable option.
>
> There's a lot of people world wide mad about security right now - and if
> Ubuntu Touch can eventually ship with a good basic set of security options,
> it will appeal to people who otherwise might have no reason to use it.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Rasmus Eneman  wrote:
>
>> You can't have GPG on SMS as it can't handle that amount of characters.
>> Also it would be stupid
>> as no one can't receive GPG/PGP SMS. If this feature is realy wanted on
>> Ubuntu to Ubuntu
>> then implementing something like iMessage or Hangouts should be done
>> using XMPP and bound
>> to the Ubuntu One account.
>>
>>
>> 2013/7/17 Mike Bybee 
>>
>>> Thanks. I think with PRISM and it's various world-wide equivalents,
>>> we're all thinking about this.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm still waiting on the actual native email client to be written. Once
>>>> that happens, adding encryption should be relatively trivial. So, whenever
>>>> that happens.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Mike Bybee wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Are there currently any plans to make sure the ubuntu mail app will
>>>>> support gpg or some other standard - and likewise for SMS?
>>>>> I know right now it just uses webmail, but I'm sure that's not the
>>>>> long term goal
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Mike Bybee
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Josh
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mike Bybee
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rasmus Eneman
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Mike Bybee
>



-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [feature request/question] Encrypted email/sms support?

[Josh Leverette]

I didn't say linking. Just breaking it up and sending them out. It's the
user's choice. Encrypting it won't make it take up more space necessarily.
If the user wants to send that many messages, they can. In a number of
countries, SMS is unlimited. Here in the United States, all of the
companies essentially gave up on charging for each message. It really is
absolutely free for the cell company, and once one of them started offering
unlimited SMS, none of the others could do any less and be competitive.
Doing an XMPP system would work too, but that requires having a data
connection, which should always be more expensive than SMS, realistically.
I'm fine with it being XMPP, but the advantage of using SMS is that it
works even when you barely have any signal, and SMS is dirt cheap compared
to data, at least here in the United States. I can't speak about the rest
of the world, but SMS as a technology is infinitely cheaper. Whether the
company chooses to charge appropriately, that's up to them.


On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Rasmus Eneman  wrote:

> Linking SMS cost money, you have to pay for every SMS. Also I'm pretty
> sure you only can link up to 4 SMSes.
> However an XMPP based service would still be better as key exchange may
> happen automagically. You have
> already broken the standard so why continue to use it when you only gets
> its limitations?
>
>
> 2013/7/17 Josh Leverette 
>
>> Also, I don't see why encrypting SMS would be impossible. You don't send
>> encrypted SMS to people who can't decrypt them. Since we're talking about
>> asymmetric encryption anyways, then the only people *you could even think
>> * *of* sending encrypted SMS to are people for whom you have a public
>> key. If you don't have a public key for a contact, then obviously you have
>> no method of encrypting a message to them. But, more importantly, you can
>> always break up an SMS into multiple SMS as the need arises, so length
>> isn't an issue as long as the user knows how many messages it will form.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Mike Bybee  wrote:
>>
>>> Well, SMS obviously can't do GPG due to character limits - however,
>>> there are dozens of varieties of secure SMS tools currently on Android. It
>>> seems that some variety encryption could be supported by the default client
>>> - much like OTR for Pidgin, etc.
>>> Not that it should default to it - that would be awful. But that it
>>> should be able to have an easy to enable option.
>>>
>>> There's a lot of people world wide mad about security right now - and if
>>> Ubuntu Touch can eventually ship with a good basic set of security options,
>>> it will appeal to people who otherwise might have no reason to use it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Rasmus Eneman wrote:
>>>
>>>> You can't have GPG on SMS as it can't handle that amount of characters.
>>>> Also it would be stupid
>>>> as no one can't receive GPG/PGP SMS. If this feature is realy wanted on
>>>> Ubuntu to Ubuntu
>>>> then implementing something like iMessage or Hangouts should be done
>>>> using XMPP and bound
>>>> to the Ubuntu One account.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/7/17 Mike Bybee 
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. I think with PRISM and it's various world-wide equivalents,
>>>>> we're all thinking about this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Josh Leverette 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm still waiting on the actual native email client to be written.
>>>>>> Once that happens, adding encryption should be relatively trivial. So,
>>>>>> whenever that happens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Mike Bybee wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Are there currently any plans to make sure the ubuntu mail app will
>>>>>>> support gpg or some other standard - and likewise for SMS?
>>>>>>> I know right now it just uses webmail, but I'm sure that's not the
>>>>>>> long term goal
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Mike Bybee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Josh
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Mike Bybee
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rasmus Eneman
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mike Bybee
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Rasmus Eneman
>



-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [feature request/question] Encrypted email/sms support?

[Josh Leverette]

"Who uses SMS much anyway these days ? Its all  IM."

You have no idea how much I wish that were true. For me and my friends
though, it couldn't be further from the truth. All we use is SMS,
practically speaking.


On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Alan Miller  wrote:

>  Who uses SMS much anyway these days ? Its all  IM.
> We used to use small electronic boards from Bladox to encrypt SMS in the
> past but that was before IM and smart phones.
> There is very  clear need for some kind of encryption proxy built into
> Ubuntu that could provide point to point encryption. I have always liked
> Phil Zimmermanns ZPHONE and how it worked. It sits in the protocol stack
> and when it detects another ZPHONE it jumps up and opportunistically
> encrypts using ZRTP.
> The key is generated in the media stream and wiped afterwards so no public
> key is needed, just verbal verification of the fingerprint strings.
>
> Two ubuntu phones no matter which service they used would be able to send
> and receive encrypted messages or even audio point to point.
> OTR can easily be implemented as well.
> All that is needed is a way to announce to the world that you are capable
> of encryption and to do that all you need is to transmit a character at the
> beginning of each message and that can used to trigger OTR or ZRTP.
> The fingerprint strings could be brought up to the UI easily enough at the
> top like the battery or Wifi indicators and pulled down to view and verify.
>
> While we are on this topic, could someone get crypto.cat working on
> ubuntu as an app ?
>
> On 18 Jul, 2013, at 3:26 AM, Marius Kotsbak  wrote:
>
> They have given up individual SMS charging in Norway too. Also the content
> could be en compressed inside the encryption so that it might not require
> so many SMS-es.
> Den 17. juli 2013 21:08 skrev "Gianguido Sorà" 
> følgende:
>
>> Exactly, in the USA there are unlimited SMS but in other countries there
>> aren't.
>> In Italy for example if an operator give 200/month is a great deal.
>> I think that the XMPP approach is more useful, because (almost) free
>> 3G/4G data access is more reliable and easy to use.
>> Il giorno 17/lug/2013 20:57, "Josh Leverette"  ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>> I didn't say linking. Just breaking it up and sending them out. It's the
>>> user's choice. Encrypting it won't make it take up more space necessarily.
>>> If the user wants to send that many messages, they can. In a number of
>>> countries, SMS is unlimited. Here in the United States, all of the
>>> companies essentially gave up on charging for each message. It really is
>>> absolutely free for the cell company, and once one of them started offering
>>> unlimited SMS, none of the others could do any less and be competitive.
>>> Doing an XMPP system would work too, but that requires having a data
>>> connection, which should always be more expensive than SMS, realistically.
>>> I'm fine with it being XMPP, but the advantage of using SMS is that it
>>> works even when you barely have any signal, and SMS is dirt cheap compared
>>> to data, at least here in the United States. I can't speak about the rest
>>> of the world, but SMS as a technology is infinitely cheaper. Whether the
>>> company chooses to charge appropriately, that's up to them.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Rasmus Eneman  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Linking SMS cost money, you have to pay for every SMS. Also I'm pretty
>>>> sure you only can link up to 4 SMSes.
>>>> However an XMPP based service would still be better as key exchange may
>>>> happen automagically. You have
>>>> already broken the standard so why continue to use it when you only
>>>> gets its limitations?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/7/17 Josh Leverette 
>>>>
>>>>> Also, I don't see why encrypting SMS would be impossible. You don't
>>>>> send encrypted SMS to people who can't decrypt them. Since we're talking
>>>>> about asymmetric encryption anyways, then the only people *you could
>>>>> even think* *of* sending encrypted SMS to are people for whom you
>>>>> have a public key. If you don't have a public key for a contact, then
>>>>> obviously you have no method of encrypting a message to them. But, more
>>>>> importantly, you can always break up an SMS into multiple SMS as the need
>>>>> arises, so length isn't an issue as long as the user knows how many
>>>>

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [feature request/question] Encrypted email/sms support?

[Josh Leverette]

Why do you even joke about options one or two? My phone is CDMA, so option
two doesn't even begin to make sense, full stop. Even if I did have a GSM
phone, nobody would plug something like that in, let alone expect their
friends to do so as well. We have software solutions for a reason. ROT 13
is a troll encryption method. It is a practical joke. It is the comp sci
equivalent of pig latin. You know those options are not practical, and you
should realize that option three is not even *an *option. It is many
options. There are numerous decisions that must be made within option three
alone.

I really don't see what you're getting at. OpenSSL will be on the phones,
which you can use to encrypt arbitrary data if all else fails. We know we
can encrypt things. The question is whether it will be tightly integrated
with the SMS app, and whether it will provide useful asymmetric key
management stuff to make it simple and *not* confusing for the average
user. Unified messaging is a great thing to talk about, but even Apple,
with all of their capital has issues maintaining iMessage. There are
outages reported every few weeks, and it doesn't always fallback to SMS
when it should.

Your message really wasn't clever or entertaining at all... just...
annoying. I'm sorry.


On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Alan Miller  wrote:

> Josh I think you have 3 choices.
>
> ONE
> for SMS you could do unix ROT 13 a few times if you want to keep things
> private, although its not really encryption its good enough for most
> purposes and trivially easy to implement.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROT13
>
>  TWO
> Alternatively go buy some bladox SMS boards…your SIM plugs into them and
> then the whole thing plugs into the phone.
>
> THREE
> OR design an encryption proxy which will work on all unified messages, why
> not ?  the whole trend is towards unified messaging, nothing stopping you
> from SMS encryption by that means.
>
>
> On 18 Jul, 2013, at 6:14 AM, Josh Leverette  wrote:
>
> "Who uses SMS much anyway these days ? Its all  IM."
>
> You have no idea how much I wish that were true. For me and my friends
> though, it couldn't be further from the truth. All we use is SMS,
> practically speaking.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Alan Miller wrote:
>
>>  Who uses SMS much anyway these days ? Its all  IM.
>> We used to use small electronic boards from Bladox to encrypt SMS in the
>> past but that was before IM and smart phones.
>> There is very  clear need for some kind of encryption proxy built into
>> Ubuntu that could provide point to point encryption. I have always liked
>> Phil Zimmermanns ZPHONE and how it worked. It sits in the protocol stack
>> and when it detects another ZPHONE it jumps up and opportunistically
>> encrypts using ZRTP.
>> The key is generated in the media stream and wiped afterwards so no
>> public key is needed, just verbal verification of the fingerprint strings.
>>
>> Two ubuntu phones no matter which service they used would be able to send
>> and receive encrypted messages or even audio point to point.
>> OTR can easily be implemented as well.
>> All that is needed is a way to announce to the world that you are capable
>> of encryption and to do that all you need is to transmit a character at the
>> beginning of each message and that can used to trigger OTR or ZRTP.
>> The fingerprint strings could be brought up to the UI easily enough at
>> the top like the battery or Wifi indicators and pulled down to view and
>> verify.
>>
>> While we are on this topic, could someone get crypto.cat working on
>> ubuntu as an app ?
>>
>> On 18 Jul, 2013, at 3:26 AM, Marius Kotsbak  wrote:
>>
>> They have given up individual SMS charging in Norway too. Also the
>> content could be en compressed inside the encryption so that it might not
>> require so many SMS-es.
>> Den 17. juli 2013 21:08 skrev "Gianguido Sorà" 
>> følgende:
>>
>>> Exactly, in the USA there are unlimited SMS but in other countries there
>>> aren't.
>>> In Italy for example if an operator give 200/month is a great deal.
>>> I think that the XMPP approach is more useful, because (almost) free
>>> 3G/4G data access is more reliable and easy to use.
>>> Il giorno 17/lug/2013 20:57, "Josh Leverette"  ha
>>> scritto:
>>>
>>>> I didn't say linking. Just breaking it up and sending them out. It's
>>>> the user's choice. Encrypting it won't make it take up more space
>>>> necessarily. If the user wants to send that many messages, they can. In a
>>>> number of countr

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Applications spawning other Applications

[Josh Leverette]

I agree. A pluggable architecture (like Android's Intents) would be better
than hard coding.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jul 18, 2013 12:09 PM, "Rasmus Eneman"  wrote:

I really like a MIME type only approach for this because that makes apps
pluggable. If you for example have an app called barcode scanner for
scanning
barcodes and a shopping app called price checker that can use barcode
scanner
to scan barcodes to scan a products barcode and see where it's cheapest.

Now a new app releases called qr code scanner that can do the same thing but
I for one reason or another preffer this one over barcode scanner a MIME
type
approach lets me use the app I prefer if qr code scanner implements the
same API.
But with a app name/id/path approch I would have to use barcode scanner if
that's
what price checker were designed for.

Of cource all apps needs to be able to register new MIME types. If you have
multiple
apps that support the same MIME type one popup should appear letting you
choose
which one to use.


2013/7/18 Jamie Strandboge 

> On 07/18/2013 11:14 AM, Michał Sawicz wrote:
> > W dniu 18.07.2013 17:38, Marc Deslauriers pisze:
> >> For the browser, I imagine a URL handler will take care of it, but what
> about
> >> spawning a different application that doesn't necessarily handle URLs
> or MIME types?
> >
> > And for network access I expect some platform API instead.
> >
> > I feel like the only instance where we would indeed allow spawning other
> > apps directly would be if it's bundled in the same package - and handled
> > through upstart as usual, I'd say.
>
> Well, an app may want to spawn a browser rather than implementing a webview
> itself. Marc mentioned the URL handler, but I don't know how this would
> work.
> Marc, can you elaborate?
>
> But for the other cases consider the MyApp click package that ships two
> desktop
> files for myapp and myapp-settings. Upstart works fine for launching
> either of
> these from the Dash. However, if myapp wants to launch myapp-settings from
> within itself, we need to define how that is supposed to happen (the
> specific
> problems are in another mailing list[1]). It can't just use:
>   start application APP_ID=myapp-settings
>
> because we don't have a way to prevent it from doing:
>   start application APP_ID=some-other-app
>
> There are some things we can do with AppArmor, but they don't include the
> executed app being managed by upstart.
>
> [1]https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-appstore-developers/msg00296.html
> --
> Jamie Strandboge http://www.ubuntu.com/
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Rasmus Eneman

--
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [feature request/question] Encrypted email/sms support?

[Josh Leverette]

asymmetric encryption of some kind would probably be preferred. Possibly
using quantum computer proof asymmetric encryption. (look at Wikipedia, I'm
on my phone at the moment, or I would provide a link.)

As far as email goes, that is notably more complex than SMS to handle. The
question becomes "do we trust Ubuntu One to keep our private key secure?"
if so, the solution is obvious, but if not, then we don't have an easy
solution. And if you do lose your phone, how do you renegotiate the key
exchange with your friends' phones? what if your phone is just an
impersonator that doesn't have the key and wants in anyways?

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jul 18, 2013 1:08 PM, "Nathan Haines"  wrote:

> On 07/18/2013 11:04 AM, Rasmus Eneman wrote:
>
>> The implementation I suggest in two parts.
>>
>> Quick messaging (SMS like):
>> Create an XMPP service bound to Ubuntu One account, all messages should
>> be encrypted with GPG.
>> Automatic key creation and exchange, totally invisible for the user,
>>
>
> If you're going to handle key creation and exchange invisibly, what use is
> GPG?  Why not use SSL or OTR?  I think IMs should be transparently
> encrypted whenever possible.
>
> I'd rather handle email encryption on my own, because if my phone died,
> I'd lose my private key and could no longer read my email (which I wouldn't
> be able to read outside of my phone anyway.)  I think email is a use case
> which needs more investigation.
>
> Regards,
> Nathan
>
> --
> Nathan Haines
> Ubuntu - http://www.ubuntu.com/
>
> --
> Mailing list: 
> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-**phone
> Post to : 
> ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.**net
> Unsubscribe : 
> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-**phone
> More help   : 
> https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelp
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [feature request/question] Encrypted email/sms support?

[Josh Leverette]

Ok, I know very little about SIM cards. If they can't be cloned
realistically, then that's fine as an authentication measure I suppose. It
would also probably be wise to renegotiate the key at regular intervals, if
someone is actually interested in security.


On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Rasmus Eneman  wrote:

> >If you're going to handle key creation and exchange invisibly, what use
> is GPG?
> Because we would want that infrastructure for the email anyways.
>
>
> >I'd rather handle email encryption on my own, because if my phone died,
> I'd lose my private key and could no longer read my email (which I wouldn't
> be able to read outside of my phone >anyway.)  I think email is a use case
> which needs more investigation.
> Of course you should be able to do that to, but if you haven't added your
> own key that should
> be one there anyways.
> Their should be an option to sync your private key with Ubuntu One (this
> would also sync to Thunderbird on the desktop)
> This is however trading security for connivance so it should be off by
> default.
>
> >And if you do lose your phone, how do you renegotiate the key exchange
> with your friends' phones? what if your phone is just an impersonator that
> doesn't have the key and wants in anyways?
> We trust the phone number as SIM cards isn't clone-able. If the key for
> the same phone number changes and we still have that phone number in our
> address book that new key is secure.
> If not we should notice the user, explain why this could happen and ask
> him or her if the new key is trusted.
>
> >The question becomes "do we trust Ubuntu One to keep our private key
> secure?"
> Not by default I would say no. But we should have that as an option to
> automatically restore
> your key when you change device and to sync it to your desktop.
>
>
> 2013/7/18 Josh Leverette 
>
>> asymmetric encryption of some kind would probably be preferred. Possibly
>> using quantum computer proof asymmetric encryption. (look at Wikipedia, I'm
>> on my phone at the moment, or I would provide a link.)
>>
>> As far as email goes, that is notably more complex than SMS to handle.
>> The question becomes "do we trust Ubuntu One to keep our private key
>> secure?" if so, the solution is obvious, but if not, then we don't have an
>> easy solution. And if you do lose your phone, how do you renegotiate the
>> key exchange with your friends' phones? what if your phone is just an
>> impersonator that doesn't have the key and wants in anyways?
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>> On Jul 18, 2013 1:08 PM, "Nathan Haines"  wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/18/2013 11:04 AM, Rasmus Eneman wrote:
>>>
>>>> The implementation I suggest in two parts.
>>>>
>>>> Quick messaging (SMS like):
>>>> Create an XMPP service bound to Ubuntu One account, all messages should
>>>> be encrypted with GPG.
>>>> Automatic key creation and exchange, totally invisible for the user,
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you're going to handle key creation and exchange invisibly, what use
>>> is GPG?  Why not use SSL or OTR?  I think IMs should be transparently
>>> encrypted whenever possible.
>>>
>>> I'd rather handle email encryption on my own, because if my phone died,
>>> I'd lose my private key and could no longer read my email (which I wouldn't
>>> be able to read outside of my phone anyway.)  I think email is a use case
>>> which needs more investigation.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Nathan
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nathan Haines
>>> Ubuntu - http://www.ubuntu.com/
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: 
>>> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-**phone<https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone>
>>> Post to : 
>>> ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.**net
>>> Unsubscribe : 
>>> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-**phone<https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone>
>>> More help   : 
>>> https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelp<https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rasmus Eneman
>



-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Applications spawning other Applications

[Josh Leverette]

What about contractor ?


On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Rasmus Eneman  wrote:

> I just realized that you can use the URL concept for MIME types to:
> mime://image/png&file://path/to/file.png or something like that
> would work well.
>
> >Sure and in the works
> Great!
>
>
> 2013/7/18 Thomas Voß 
>
>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 8:28 PM, Michał Sawicz
>>  wrote:
>> > W dniu 18.07.2013 20:20, Thomas Voß pisze:
>> >> My last status on this is that we are going to have a URL handler
>> >> binary that apps can register with, much like for example on iOS. With
>> >> that, Jamie's web-browser example is easily solvable, and so are more
>> >> sophisticated use-cases like gallery://albums/birthday/cake.png. Not
>> >> sure if it's DBus or not, but I'm very much in favor of doing URL
>> >> handling as opposed to mime-type handling.
>> >
>> > Problem is when you start dealing with remote content - at that point
>> > you need mime-type as well, or you can go for:
>> >
>> > gallery+http://host/path.png
>> >
>> > What if you don't know/care what kind of app should handle, say, a
>> > downloaded PDF file?
>> >
>>
>> Good point and I do agree in general, However, once we allow mime-type
>> handling we break the strict per-app siloing of content.
>>
>> Not sure how to solve that issue for mime-type handling.
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>> > I basically think we need to be able to handle both URI and MIME,
>> > depending on the use case.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Michał (Saviq) Sawicz 
>> > Canonical Services Ltd.
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Rasmus Eneman
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [feature request/question] Encrypted email/sms support?

[Josh Leverette]

The phone number approach was being used to authenticate SMS communications.


On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Sam Bull  wrote:

> On Thu, 2013-07-18 at 20:26 +0200, Rasmus Eneman wrote:
> > >If you're going to handle key creation and exchange invisibly, what
> > use is GPG?
> > Because we would want that infrastructure for the email anyways.
>
> I think his point is that the strength of GPG is in it's trust model. We
> can handle key creation and exchange invisibly, and provide an encrypted
> session. But, we should make the interface clear that the recipient is
> not verified, and provide instructions on how to verify the recipient's
> key (and then sign it).
>
> > We trust the phone number as SIM cards isn't clone-able.
>
> Even if that is true, how are you going to send the phone number over
> the internet in a way which I couldn't just replace with a fake number?
> Basically, that's not going to work.
>
> > If not we should notice the user, explain why this could happen and
> > ask him or her if the new key is trusted.
>
> Ignore the phone number approach, but this is what should happen if a
> new key is detected. It again needs to be clear that the new key needs
> to go through verification as before.
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [feature request/question] Encrypted email/sms support?

[Josh Leverette]

I don't think asymmetric encryption increases the size of the messages. If
you write long messages, you're going to have a long message. Even if it
did, I seem to recall most people agreeing that it is very useful in rural
areas to be able to use actual SMS, since data coverage would not be
available at all. In a number of countries, SMS is much cheaper than data,
also.


On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Sam Bull  wrote:

> On Thu, 2013-07-18 at 13:56 -0500, Josh Leverette wrote:
> > The phone number approach was being used to authenticate SMS
> > communications.
>
> Thought we already decided it would not be possible to do this through
> SMS due to restrictions in size etc.
>
> I thought this was an SMS equivalent. In which case, it wouldn't work as
> I could easily tweak the code to send a fake number.
>
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Power management policy

[Josh Leverette]

The spec looks very promising.


On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Thomas Voß wrote:

> Hey there,
>
> you might be interested in:
>
>   *
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-add-app-model-and-lifecycle-to-platform-api
>   * and the corresponding spec in:
>
> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1ij8RtPsR_eYMW3mys8Gu1Y2CVFZpjXdMpdIjIGZ1SCA/edit#
>
> In summary: We will implement a very strict lifecycle policy, too, and
> one that seamlessly adapts and extends to different form-factors.
>
> Thanks,
>
>   Thomas
>
> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Zisu Andrei  wrote:
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > What I find interesting in the iPad (I just have one because I need it
> for
> > work) and recently in Mac OS Mavericks is their power managent policy.
> >
> > Put simply, in iOS, except a few very special cases, you applications
> will
> > be stopped when they go into background. So the foreground app gets full
> > reign of both memory and CPU. This also has a very beneficial effect on
> > battery life - in Android, apps running in the background still eat
> cputime.
> >
> > What OS X Mavericks is doing is taking this idea further into a noteboook
> > environment [1] with their application nap and timer coalescing. You
> really
> > only get the most out of your battery.
> >
> > While this might not totally work in an environment like Ubuntu, would
> it be
> > possible to throttle the foreground application and slow down the
> background
> > ones?  What would this imply? Is it do-able in the current state of
> Ubuntu
> > Phone, or do we need extra things at kernel level?
> >
> > [1] http://www.apple.com/osx/preview/advanced-technologies.html
> >
> > Zisu Andrei
> >
> > --
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> > Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>



-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Power management policy

[Josh Leverette]

to throttle something actually means to slow it down, just for future
reference.

But, yes. A less rigorously enforced policy that mimics what Apple does
with background apps is something I would approve of. If an application
asks permission to run in the background, then that's fine, but I don't
want apps to run in the background by default. Configurability is key here,
but the benefits of what iOS does outweigh the downsides for most
situations, and Linux already has this functionality built in. The STOP and
CONT signals will do exactly what you would imagine them to do.
http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2007/11/23/how-to-pause-a-linux-process/


On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Zisu Andrei  wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> What I find interesting in the iPad (I just have one because I need it for
> work) and recently in Mac OS Mavericks is their power managent policy.
>
> Put simply, in iOS, except a few very special cases, you applications will
> be stopped when they go into background. So the foreground app gets full
> reign of both memory and CPU. This also has a very beneficial effect on
> battery life - in Android, apps running in the background still eat cputime.
>
> What OS X Mavericks is doing is taking this idea further into a noteboook
> environment [1] with their application nap and timer coalescing. You really
> only get the most out of your battery.
>
> While this might not totally work in an environment like Ubuntu, would it
> be possible to throttle the foreground application and slow down the
> background ones?  What would this imply? Is it do-able in the current state
> of Ubuntu Phone, or do we need extra things at kernel level?
>
> [1] http://www.apple.com/osx/preview/advanced-technologies.html
>
> Zisu Andrei
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Power management policy

[Josh Leverette]

"So my specific questions were directed to how we want to manage that -
since a hard sigstop when an app switches would be equivalent to a crash to
almost every current app in the app store. Obviously, lots of apps will be
created *for* touch, but the point all along has been that it should be
trivial to migrate existing QT apps back and forth - and overly aggressive
killing of apps will hinder that."

What? SIGSTOP pauses it. It doesn't kill it. The app is never made aware of
the fact that it was stopped. Once you send SIGCONT to it, it picks up
right where it left off.


On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Mike Bybee  wrote:

>  On 07/19/2013 09:32 AM, Zisu Andrei wrote:
>
> "let the user decide" is one of the reasons why foss fails with inexperienced
> users, plus, you really don't want that extra level of complexity on a
> phone.
>
>  The game doesn't really need to run in the background when it is
> not being played. You will just do design your game loop around that, but,
> in a server - client architecture, the update loop is on the server most of
> the time, so... No problem there.
>
>  I guess the only valid argument is the one with the loading browsers.
> Modern browsers don't repaint inactive tabs anyway, but javascript still
> runs and eats cycles you'd really wanna keep. If Ubuntu's gonna have
> something for that, it's gonna be a big plus.
>
> On Friday, July 19, 2013, Mike Bybee wrote:
>
>> On 07/19/2013 09:04 AM, Thomas Voß wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Mike Bybee 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 07/19/2013 08:45 AM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The spec looks very promising.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Thomas Voß >>> >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey there,
>>>>>
>>>>> you might be interested in:
>>>>>
>>>>>*
>>>>>
>>>>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-add-app-model-and-lifecycle-to-platform-api
>>>>>* and the corresponding spec in:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1ij8RtPsR_eYMW3mys8Gu1Y2CVFZpjXdMpdIjIGZ1SCA/edit#
>>>>>
>>>>> In summary: We will implement a very strict lifecycle policy, too, and
>>>>> one that seamlessly adapts and extends to different form-factors.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>Thomas
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Zisu Andrei 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey guys,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I find interesting in the iPad (I just have one because I need it
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> work) and recently in Mac OS Mavericks is their power managent policy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Put simply, in iOS, except a few very special cases, you applications
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be stopped when they go into background. So the foreground app gets
>>>>>> full
>>>>>> reign of both memory and CPU. This also has a very beneficial effect
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> battery life - in Android, apps running in the background still eat
>>>>>> cputime.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What OS X Mavericks is doing is taking this idea further into a
>>>>>> noteboook
>>>>>> environment [1] with their application nap and timer coalescing. You
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> only get the most out of your battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While this might not totally work in an environment like Ubuntu, would
>>>>>> it be
>>>>>> possible to throttle the foreground application and slow down the
>>>>>> background
>>>>>> ones?  What would this imply? Is it do-able in the current state of
>>>>>> Ubuntu
>>>>>> Phone, or do we need extra things at kernel level?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] http://www.apple.com/osx/preview/advanced-technologies.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>  Josh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, using a common example of an IM client or media player - would we
>>>> assume
>>>> that would stay

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ?

[Josh Leverette]

A 20" screen definitely qualifies for desktop mode. I don't think it would
be running tablet style at that point.


On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Omar B.  wrote:

> >The tablet interface have the side view and personally I think that is
> good. Anything more wouldn't be good.
>
> Well that mostly depends on the size of the tablet / touch screen.
>
> There are more and more big ones / hybrids selling as home computers:
>
>
> http://blog.laptopmag.com/5-reasons-large-screen-tablets-are-the-next-big-thing
>
> So the bigger the more useful multi-window should be. You don't want all
> apps to be full-screen on a 20" tablet / hybrid. Sidestage is also pretty
> much full-screen vertically but with a division.
>
> However I don't know how a sidestaged calculator will look on those big
> tablets...
>
> Anyway, personally from the video, the horizontal re-sizing looks quite
> handy and easy to use, as well as some other gestures.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcMDTBPcjPs
>
> Not saying this needs to be something high priority at this point (maybe
> after 13.10 or 14.04), but vendors are manufacturing different types of
> hardware combinations, so they're the ones who decide what layout is best
> as default for their devices. And things are not standing still, there's a
> lot of innovation and opportunities going on. Can't let the big 3 take them
> all.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ?

[Josh Leverette]

What the difference? We really don't know what unity 8 for the desktop
looks like. But, based on logical induction, the only significant
difference is that you can move things around and resize them as windows in
one, and they're all fullscreen in the other. You can still run the same
apps in desktop mode as in tablet mode, but more applications might be
available to desktop mode.

This isn't Windows. Canonical is striving towards Unity. Microsoft chose a
divided approach, with clear separation between desktop and tablet.
On Jul 19, 2013 11:16 PM, "Omar B."  wrote:

> >A 20" screen definitely qualifies for desktop mode. I don't think it
> would be running tablet style at that point.
>
> Then, I wonder what would be the case study for the ASUS Transformer AiO.
>
> Just desktop mode?
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hUPWgLXMBY
>
> http://www.asus.com/AllinOne_PCs/ASUS_Transformer_AiO_P1801/
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ?

[Josh Leverette]

What is the difference? We really don't know what unity 8 for the desktop
looks like. But, based on logical induction, the only significant
difference is that you can move things around and resize them as windows in
one, and they're all fullscreen in the other. You can still run the same
apps in desktop mode as in tablet mode, but more applications might be
available to desktop mode.

This isn't Windows. Canonical is striving towards Unity. Microsoft chose a
divided approach, with clear separation between desktop and tablet.
On Jul 19, 2013 11:16 PM, "Omar B."  wrote:

> >A 20" screen definitely qualifies for desktop mode. I don't think it
> would be running tablet style at that point.
>
> Then, I wonder what would be the case study for the ASUS Transformer AiO.
>
> Just desktop mode?
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hUPWgLXMBY
>
> http://www.asus.com/AllinOne_PCs/ASUS_Transformer_AiO_P1801/
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ?

[Josh Leverette]

I still don't understand. Why do you want to go into tablet mode, since
that only means everything is fullscreen, as far as we know. You can still
maximize things and then they're essentially fullscreen, if that's what you
want, but realistically.. why would you on a large screen?

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jul 20, 2013 1:49 PM, "Omar B."  wrote:

> hmm, I believe we need to think more about the applications and connected
> peripherals, than the desktop itself.
>
> On the ASUS Transformer AiO, when the screen gets detached, it surely
> becomes a big Tablet.
>
> So, I assume it will go from desktop mode to tablet mode (with probably a
> possibility of manual override).
>
> In such big tablet form factors I see the usefulness of multi-window,
> re-sizing or a more feature-rich side stage being introduced to the touch
> environment.
>
>
>
> --
> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 23:30:11 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ?
> From: coder...@gmail.com
> To: estela...@hotmail.com
> CC: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>
> What is the difference? We really don't know what unity 8 for the desktop
> looks like. But, based on logical induction, the only significant
> difference is that you can move things around and resize them as windows in
> one, and they're all fullscreen in the other. You can still run the same
> apps in desktop mode as in tablet mode, but more applications might be
> available to desktop mode.
>
> This isn't Windows. Canonical is striving towards Unity. Microsoft chose a
> divided approach, with clear separation between desktop and tablet.
> On Jul 19, 2013 11:16 PM, "Omar B."  wrote:
>
> >A 20" screen definitely qualifies for desktop mode. I don't think it
> would be running tablet style at that point.
>
> Then, I wonder what would be the case study for the ASUS Transformer AiO.
>
> Just desktop mode?
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hUPWgLXMBY
>
> http://www.asus.com/AllinOne_PCs/ASUS_Transformer_AiO_P1801/
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ?

[Josh Leverette]

On a large display, there is very rarely enough content to use the whole
screen. If you're using a 20" tablet, it's not for pleasure. It needs to
use multiple windows. This applies to the keyboard as well. The keyboard
would be too large to type on if you just stretched it out to a 20" screen.
Why do you need to write a use case? This use case is plainly obvious. It
would be wasteful to only allow one application on the screen at a time for
large screens. Even the side stage isn't enough. It would be Windows 8 all
over again to do that. Besides, we need to support the legacy applications
like LibreOffice, and Eclipse.

Why do you want a single application to fill the whole screen at all times?
Why would that be useful?
On Jul 20, 2013 4:50 PM, "Rasmus Eneman"  wrote:

> The thing is, when you are using a tablet inteface. How would you intercat
> with multiple windows?
> We shouldn't add features just for the sake of features, if so we would
> still be using the terminal
> only as it's the only (yet?) invented interface that can do anything. We
> don't want that
> we want an interface that simple and easy to navigate if it looks good
> that would be a bonus.
> To do this we have to say, "this feature should be in because it's needed
> and works". Not just
> "this feature looks cool, lets add it".
>
> Could someone write some good use cases for a multi window/more advanced
> side stage?
>
>
> 2013/7/20 Josh Leverette 
>
>> I still don't understand. Why do you want to go into tablet mode, since
>> that only means everything is fullscreen, as far as we know. You can still
>> maximize things and then they're essentially fullscreen, if that's what you
>> want, but realistically.. why would you on a large screen?
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>> On Jul 20, 2013 1:49 PM, "Omar B."  wrote:
>>
>>> hmm, I believe we need to think more about the applications and
>>> connected peripherals, than the desktop itself.
>>>
>>> On the ASUS Transformer AiO, when the screen gets detached, it surely
>>> becomes a big Tablet.
>>>
>>> So, I assume it will go from desktop mode to tablet mode (with probably
>>> a possibility of manual override).
>>>
>>> In such big tablet form factors I see the usefulness of multi-window,
>>> re-sizing or a more feature-rich side stage being introduced to the touch
>>> environment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 23:30:11 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ?
>>> From: coder...@gmail.com
>>> To: estela...@hotmail.com
>>> CC: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>
>>> What is the difference? We really don't know what unity 8 for the
>>> desktop looks like. But, based on logical induction, the only significant
>>> difference is that you can move things around and resize them as windows in
>>> one, and they're all fullscreen in the other. You can still run the same
>>> apps in desktop mode as in tablet mode, but more applications might be
>>> available to desktop mode.
>>>
>>> This isn't Windows. Canonical is striving towards Unity. Microsoft chose
>>> a divided approach, with clear separation between desktop and tablet.
>>> On Jul 19, 2013 11:16 PM, "Omar B."  wrote:
>>>
>>> >A 20" screen definitely qualifies for desktop mode. I don't think it
>>> would be running tablet style at that point.
>>>
>>> Then, I wonder what would be the case study for the ASUS Transformer
>>> AiO.
>>>
>>> Just desktop mode?
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hUPWgLXMBY
>>>
>>> http://www.asus.com/AllinOne_PCs/ASUS_Transformer_AiO_P1801/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rasmus Eneman
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ?

[Josh Leverette]

Interacting with it as a tablet does not limit you to running one
application as a time. LibreOffice and Eclipse may not be optimized for
touch, but you could still run all of the touch optimized apps. Running
them in windows you can move around would not be something to fear. It
would be useful. If you *want* to run a nontouch optimized app, that's your
problem. Having window management *will* happen regardless, for traditional
desktops. Letting you use it on a 20" tablet would just be a good decision.

-Desktop mode means you can run several touch optimized apps side by side
-you optionally can run legacy, real-work applications like Eclipse
-you can still maximize them to run them fullscreen, if you like

Any suffering would be self inflicted. There is no downside, and an OSK can
be used for anything. On my android tablet I have a keyboard designed for
programming, and I've written code swiftly. A larger screen would be even
better. I've written documents that are dozens of pages long on a
touchscreen. To someone who is practiced with them, it's a breeze. Don't
insult touchscreen interfaces just because you're not efficient with them.
On Jul 20, 2013 5:12 PM, "Rasmus Eneman"  wrote:

> >Why would that be useful?
> Because you are still interacting with it like a tablet, with touch.
> Advanced interfaces like LibreOffice or Eclipse wouldn't work
> not because of the screen size but because of the input type.
> And if you wants to use desktop applications, why wouldn't
> you just use the desktop interface? The applications wouldn't
> be easier to interact with just because the interface of the
> desktop manager were fitted for touch.
>
> OSK is worthless for programming or writing documents, even if the
> screen is 20".
>
> You can't just add in multi-windows and totally change how you would
> interact with the only argument being "It's BIG!". The input is still as
> equally limited and broken for desktop interfaces.
>
> And no, in isn't Windows 8 all over again. Windows 8 is putting a tablet
> interface on the desktop. Unity is putting a tablet interface on a tablet
> and
> a desktop interface on a desktop.
>
> Without writing usecases for massive changes you are doing changes
> for the sake of changing stuff, probably to the worse. Before you go in
> and totally change how one interface would work you need to have a
> very clear plan of what you are doing and why you are doing that.
> The latter part of that is why use cases would need to be written.
>
>
> 2013/7/20 Josh Leverette 
>
>> On a large display, there is very rarely enough content to use the whole
>> screen. If you're using a 20" tablet, it's not for pleasure. It needs to
>> use multiple windows. This applies to the keyboard as well. The keyboard
>> would be too large to type on if you just stretched it out to a 20" screen.
>> Why do you need to write a use case? This use case is plainly obvious. It
>> would be wasteful to only allow one application on the screen at a time for
>> large screens. Even the side stage isn't enough. It would be Windows 8 all
>> over again to do that. Besides, we need to support the legacy applications
>> like LibreOffice, and Eclipse.
>>
>> Why do you want a single application to fill the whole screen at all
>> times? Why would that be useful?
>> On Jul 20, 2013 4:50 PM, "Rasmus Eneman"  wrote:
>>
>>> The thing is, when you are using a tablet inteface. How would you
>>> intercat with multiple windows?
>>> We shouldn't add features just for the sake of features, if so we would
>>> still be using the terminal
>>> only as it's the only (yet?) invented interface that can do anything. We
>>> don't want that
>>> we want an interface that simple and easy to navigate if it looks good
>>> that would be a bonus.
>>> To do this we have to say, "this feature should be in because it's
>>> needed and works". Not just
>>> "this feature looks cool, lets add it".
>>>
>>> Could someone write some good use cases for a multi window/more advanced
>>> side stage?
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/7/20 Josh Leverette 
>>>
>>>> I still don't understand. Why do you want to go into tablet mode, since
>>>> that only means everything is fullscreen, as far as we know. You can still
>>>> maximize things and then they're essentially fullscreen, if that's what you
>>>> want, but realistically.. why would you on a large screen?
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>&g

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ?

[Josh Leverette]

I'm not talking about putting this on a 7" tablet. You haven't been
listening to me.

There are three form factors.
-Desktop
-Tablet
-Phone

We know what the tablet and phone Unity8 interfaces look like. We do not
know what Unity8 for desktop will look like. There *will* be a version of
it for desktop. That is not a question. The 20" tablet that is being
discussed should run the desktop version of the interface because it is too
large for the tablet interface to scale properly to it. The desktop
interface is the appropriate choice regardless of whether the tablet is
docked in to the AIO dock or the tablet is freestanding. It doesn't matter.
It should always run the desktop interface because of how large it is. The
desktop interface is different only by the fact that it has windows in it.
I'm not changing anything there. It will be able to run the tablet apps. It
will be able to run the phone apps. It will be able to run the legacy apps.
A 7" tablet will of course run the tablet interface, not the desktop
interface with a windowing interface.

I never suggested that we change the tablet interface to use windows or be
a desktop interface. I suggested that this special case use the desktop
interface exclusively, instead of the tablet interface.
On Jul 20, 2013 5:34 PM, "Rasmus Eneman"  wrote:

> All of those things are stuff you can do on the desktop interface.
> Why wold it be so much better to do that on the Tablet interface?
>
> >-you can still maximize them to run them fullscreen, if you like
> It isn't about that. It is about that you fundamentally would like to
> change how the current interface works. You cant just add in multi
> window.
> You need a way to maximize/minimize windows, usually you do that
> using buttons on a tool bar. By adding a tool bar that is always visible
> you loose valuable screen space on a 7" tablet.
> And also you would have to teach users how the multi windows
> features work.
>
> What I'm saying is that if you want the desktop interface you should
> use the desktop interface, you shouldn't make the tablet interface
> become the desktop interface. You can run the touch apps in the
> desktop interface aswell.
>
>
> 2013/7/21 Josh Leverette 
>
>> Interacting with it as a tablet does not limit you to running one
>> application as a time. LibreOffice and Eclipse may not be optimized for
>> touch, but you could still run all of the touch optimized apps. Running
>> them in windows you can move around would not be something to fear. It
>> would be useful. If you *want* to run a nontouch optimized app, that's your
>> problem. Having window management *will* happen regardless, for traditional
>> desktops. Letting you use it on a 20" tablet would just be a good decision.
>>
>> -Desktop mode means you can run several touch optimized apps side by side
>> -you optionally can run legacy, real-work applications like Eclipse
>> -you can still maximize them to run them fullscreen, if you like
>>
>> Any suffering would be self inflicted. There is no downside, and an OSK
>> can be used for anything. On my android tablet I have a keyboard designed
>> for programming, and I've written code swiftly. A larger screen would be
>> even better. I've written documents that are dozens of pages long on a
>> touchscreen. To someone who is practiced with them, it's a breeze. Don't
>> insult touchscreen interfaces just because you're not efficient with them.
>>  On Jul 20, 2013 5:12 PM, "Rasmus Eneman"  wrote:
>>
>>> >Why would that be useful?
>>> Because you are still interacting with it like a tablet, with touch.
>>> Advanced interfaces like LibreOffice or Eclipse wouldn't work
>>>  not because of the screen size but because of the input type.
>>> And if you wants to use desktop applications, why wouldn't
>>> you just use the desktop interface? The applications wouldn't
>>> be easier to interact with just because the interface of the
>>> desktop manager were fitted for touch.
>>>
>>> OSK is worthless for programming or writing documents, even if the
>>> screen is 20".
>>>
>>> You can't just add in multi-windows and totally change how you would
>>> interact with the only argument being "It's BIG!". The input is still as
>>> equally limited and broken for desktop interfaces.
>>>
>>> And no, in isn't Windows 8 all over again. Windows 8 is putting a tablet
>>> interface on the desktop. Unity is putting a tablet interface on a
>>> tablet and
>>> a desktop interface on a desktop.
>>>
&

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ?

[Josh Leverette]

Nothing. Omar asked a question about a corner case. I answered him, and
then you started saying things that made no sense as a response to what I
was saying. My response applied only to that one device in question.
On Jul 20, 2013 5:50 PM, "Rasmus Eneman"  wrote:

> Of course the desktop interface will support multiple windows. No one have
> ever said otherwise?
> The desktop experience will most probably be very similar to Unity7 except
> for the improved
> indicators in Unity8.
>
> Canonical have already started that Ubuntu will be one code base,
> regardless of the device
> it's run on. Already today you can dynamically switch between mobile and
> tablet interface in
> Unity8 when the desktop interface is ready you will be able to switch with
> that too. All
> devices will of cource run appropriate interface.
>
> I can't really understand what you want to change?
>
>
> 2013/7/21 Josh Leverette 
>
>> I'm not talking about putting this on a 7" tablet. You haven't been
>> listening to me.
>>
>> There are three form factors.
>> -Desktop
>> -Tablet
>> -Phone
>>
>> We know what the tablet and phone Unity8 interfaces look like. We do not
>> know what Unity8 for desktop will look like. There *will* be a version of
>> it for desktop. That is not a question. The 20" tablet that is being
>> discussed should run the desktop version of the interface because it is too
>> large for the tablet interface to scale properly to it. The desktop
>> interface is the appropriate choice regardless of whether the tablet is
>> docked in to the AIO dock or the tablet is freestanding. It doesn't matter.
>> It should always run the desktop interface because of how large it is. The
>> desktop interface is different only by the fact that it has windows in it.
>> I'm not changing anything there. It will be able to run the tablet apps. It
>> will be able to run the phone apps. It will be able to run the legacy apps.
>> A 7" tablet will of course run the tablet interface, not the desktop
>> interface with a windowing interface.
>>
>> I never suggested that we change the tablet interface to use windows or
>> be a desktop interface. I suggested that this special case use the desktop
>> interface exclusively, instead of the tablet interface.
>>  On Jul 20, 2013 5:34 PM, "Rasmus Eneman"  wrote:
>>
>>> All of those things are stuff you can do on the desktop interface.
>>> Why wold it be so much better to do that on the Tablet interface?
>>>
>>> >-you can still maximize them to run them fullscreen, if you like
>>> It isn't about that. It is about that you fundamentally would like to
>>> change how the current interface works. You cant just add in multi
>>> window.
>>> You need a way to maximize/minimize windows, usually you do that
>>> using buttons on a tool bar. By adding a tool bar that is always visible
>>> you loose valuable screen space on a 7" tablet.
>>> And also you would have to teach users how the multi windows
>>> features work.
>>>
>>> What I'm saying is that if you want the desktop interface you should
>>> use the desktop interface, you shouldn't make the tablet interface
>>> become the desktop interface. You can run the touch apps in the
>>> desktop interface aswell.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/7/21 Josh Leverette 
>>>
>>>> Interacting with it as a tablet does not limit you to running one
>>>> application as a time. LibreOffice and Eclipse may not be optimized for
>>>> touch, but you could still run all of the touch optimized apps. Running
>>>> them in windows you can move around would not be something to fear. It
>>>> would be useful. If you *want* to run a nontouch optimized app, that's your
>>>> problem. Having window management *will* happen regardless, for traditional
>>>> desktops. Letting you use it on a 20" tablet would just be a good decision.
>>>>
>>>> -Desktop mode means you can run several touch optimized apps side by
>>>> side
>>>> -you optionally can run legacy, real-work applications like Eclipse
>>>> -you can still maximize them to run them fullscreen, if you like
>>>>
>>>> Any suffering would be self inflicted. There is no downside, and an OSK
>>>> can be used for anything. On my android tablet I have a keyboard designed
>>>> for programming, and I've written code swiftly. A larger screen would be
>>>> even better. I

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ?

[Josh Leverette]

Yes. I'm sorry for how intense it got, we wanted the same thing the whole
time, but we were both confused as to what was going on.
On Jul 20, 2013 5:57 PM, "Rasmus Eneman"  wrote:

> I seem to have misunderstood the whole discussion.
> When I read it again I see what you mean and thinks
> that we both wanted the same thing all the time.
>
>
> 2013/7/21 Josh Leverette 
>
>> Nothing. Omar asked a question about a corner case. I answered him, and
>> then you started saying things that made no sense as a response to what I
>> was saying. My response applied only to that one device in question.
>>  On Jul 20, 2013 5:50 PM, "Rasmus Eneman"  wrote:
>>
>>> Of course the desktop interface will support multiple windows. No one
>>> have ever said otherwise?
>>> The desktop experience will most probably be very similar to Unity7
>>> except for the improved
>>> indicators in Unity8.
>>>
>>> Canonical have already started that Ubuntu will be one code base,
>>> regardless of the device
>>> it's run on. Already today you can dynamically switch between mobile and
>>> tablet interface in
>>> Unity8 when the desktop interface is ready you will be able to switch
>>> with that too. All
>>> devices will of cource run appropriate interface.
>>>
>>> I can't really understand what you want to change?
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/7/21 Josh Leverette 
>>>
>>>> I'm not talking about putting this on a 7" tablet. You haven't been
>>>> listening to me.
>>>>
>>>> There are three form factors.
>>>> -Desktop
>>>> -Tablet
>>>> -Phone
>>>>
>>>> We know what the tablet and phone Unity8 interfaces look like. We do
>>>> not know what Unity8 for desktop will look like. There *will* be a version
>>>> of it for desktop. That is not a question. The 20" tablet that is being
>>>> discussed should run the desktop version of the interface because it is too
>>>> large for the tablet interface to scale properly to it. The desktop
>>>> interface is the appropriate choice regardless of whether the tablet is
>>>> docked in to the AIO dock or the tablet is freestanding. It doesn't matter.
>>>> It should always run the desktop interface because of how large it is. The
>>>> desktop interface is different only by the fact that it has windows in it.
>>>> I'm not changing anything there. It will be able to run the tablet apps. It
>>>> will be able to run the phone apps. It will be able to run the legacy apps.
>>>> A 7" tablet will of course run the tablet interface, not the desktop
>>>> interface with a windowing interface.
>>>>
>>>> I never suggested that we change the tablet interface to use windows or
>>>> be a desktop interface. I suggested that this special case use the desktop
>>>> interface exclusively, instead of the tablet interface.
>>>>  On Jul 20, 2013 5:34 PM, "Rasmus Eneman"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> All of those things are stuff you can do on the desktop interface.
>>>>> Why wold it be so much better to do that on the Tablet interface?
>>>>>
>>>>> >-you can still maximize them to run them fullscreen, if you like
>>>>> It isn't about that. It is about that you fundamentally would like to
>>>>> change how the current interface works. You cant just add in multi
>>>>> window.
>>>>> You need a way to maximize/minimize windows, usually you do that
>>>>> using buttons on a tool bar. By adding a tool bar that is always
>>>>> visible
>>>>> you loose valuable screen space on a 7" tablet.
>>>>> And also you would have to teach users how the multi windows
>>>>> features work.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I'm saying is that if you want the desktop interface you should
>>>>> use the desktop interface, you shouldn't make the tablet interface
>>>>> become the desktop interface. You can run the touch apps in the
>>>>> desktop interface aswell.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/7/21 Josh Leverette 
>>>>>
>>>>>> Interacting with it as a tablet does not limit you to running one
>>>>>> application as a time. LibreOffice and Eclipse may not be optimized for
>>>>>> touch, but you could still run

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

It does look pretty awesome... wish I could get one.


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Sam Bull  wrote:

> Haven't seen it mentioned here yet, and someone else just pointed it out
> to me.
>
> There's an Indiegogo campaign for a new phone from Canonical. It looks
> amazing and there's a one-day promotion to get it at a reduced price.
> Just wanted to make sure everyone here got a chance to get one, the
> promotion is selling out fast (only 5000 available).
>
> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

Pay $600, or $830, depending on when you buy it. I can't justify spending
that much on a smartphone right now.


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Andrea Pivetta  wrote:

>  Il 22/07/2013 20:20, Josh Leverette ha scritto:
>
> It does look pretty awesome... wish I could get one.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Sam Bull  wrote:
>
>> Haven't seen it mentioned here yet, and someone else just pointed it out
>> to me.
>>
>> There's an Indiegogo campaign for a new phone from Canonical. It looks
>> amazing and there's a one-day promotion to get it at a reduced price.
>> Just wanted to make sure everyone here got a chance to get one, the
>> promotion is selling out fast (only 5000 available).
>>
>> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
>
>  --
> Sincerely,
> Josh
>
>
>  I don't understand, what have I to do to have the possibility to buy this
> device?
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

It's going to use ARM. That's not in question, I'm pretty sure. Even if it
were running Intel, none of the Intel chips for smartphones would be
powerful enough to do anything with a Steam game. ARM is far more common,
and it is well proven in the market. Intel, not as much, so I believe with
certainty that they will select an ARM chip.


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Joey Carlini  wrote:

> Pledge $400ish to their indiegogo, and you get the device when it ships.
>
> One thing I'd like to know is if it is using an ARM or x86 processor.
> Wouldn't be make or break, but Steam on a Mobile would be awesome...
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>
>> Pay $600, or $830, depending on when you buy it. I can't justify spending
>> that much on a smartphone right now.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Andrea Pivetta wrote:
>>
>>>  Il 22/07/2013 20:20, Josh Leverette ha scritto:
>>>
>>> It does look pretty awesome... wish I could get one.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Sam Bull  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Haven't seen it mentioned here yet, and someone else just pointed it out
>>>> to me.
>>>>
>>>> There's an Indiegogo campaign for a new phone from Canonical. It looks
>>>> amazing and there's a one-day promotion to get it at a reduced price.
>>>> Just wanted to make sure everyone here got a chance to get one, the
>>>> promotion is selling out fast (only 5000 available).
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Josh
>>>
>>>
>>>  I don't understand, what have I to do to have the possibility to buy
>>> this device?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

Cool. Also, I wrote a Python script for my personal use, to watch the
amount of funding that the Ubuntu Edge has received!
http://pastebin.com/TJ1Hvktw

Every 30 seconds, it checks to see what the current level of funding is.
I'll probably extend that to 2 or 3 minutes as the amount of funding slows
down, but for now, it's exciting to see the number ticking upwards.


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Alex Chiang  wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>
>> It's going to use ARM. That's not in question, I'm pretty sure.
>>
>
>  Yes, it will be an ARM SoC.
>



-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

Yep, but it seems like the hill is leveling out to me. A year ago, we
didn't have Steam, or a myriad of 3D engines (like Unity3D) pledging to
come to Ubuntu. Porting that stuff to Ubuntu touch should be relatively
straightforward, if they choose to do so. It has always been an uphill
battle, but somehow things don't seem so bad these days.


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Joey Carlini  wrote:

> Ah well, that would be pretty rad if it worked. Gaming is going to be an
> uphill battle, but that was probably a given.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Alex Chiang wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>
>>> It's going to use ARM. That's not in question, I'm pretty sure.
>>>
>>
>>  Yes, it will be an ARM SoC.
>>
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

I don't really see any other options that they could pick besides the
Snapdragon 800, but they seem to have left their options open in case
something else crops up. I'd like to know what kind of processor it is too,
but they're being rather coy about that, so I imagine they won't say just
yet.


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Andrew Sutherland  wrote:

>
>- Fastest multi-core CPU, 4GB RAM, 128GB storage
>
> I hope this means Snapdragon. I pledged my 600, but this is my main
> concern.
>
> ==  Multitasking is inherently impossible.  ==
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Alex Chiang wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>
>>> It's going to use ARM. That's not in question, I'm pretty sure.
>>>
>>
>>  Yes, it will be an ARM SoC.
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

I don't understand your question. All Android and Ubuntu smartphones do
multitasking.


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Joey Carlini  wrote:

> If it's a multicore, then multitasking is built in, right?
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>
>> I don't really see any other options that they could pick besides the
>> Snapdragon 800, but they seem to have left their options open in case
>> something else crops up. I'd like to know what kind of processor it is too,
>> but they're being rather coy about that, so I imagine they won't say just
>> yet.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Andrew Sutherland <
>> dr3wsuth3rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>- Fastest multi-core CPU, 4GB RAM, 128GB storage
>>>
>>> I hope this means Snapdragon. I pledged my 600, but this is my main
>>> concern.
>>>
>>> ==  Multitasking is inherently impossible.  ==
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Alex Chiang wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's going to use ARM. That's not in question, I'm pretty sure.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Yes, it will be an ARM SoC.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

it will not be 64 bit. No such ARM chips are even available yet. Probably
lots of xda people. They're the kind that buy this stuff. You can't. Your
only chance is this indiegogo crowdfunding event. Buy within the next 30
days, or forever

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jul 22, 2013 7:03 PM, "Ryan Granger"  wrote:

> All I care about with this phone is:
> Will CPU be 64bit ?
> How many people on xda will get it and do development for it?
> And where can I get one after its been released.? I hear carriers won't be
> receiving this handset.
>
> Peter Chinetti  wrote:
>>
>> Any idea if it will run on Verizon bands? (I see the 'dual band LTE', but
>> I don't know what that means)
>> I could almost justify not eating to get a _super_ nifty phone.
>> As a note, this phone costs more than my laptop :)
>> On Jul 22, 2013 5:46 PM, "Zisu Andrei"  wrote:
>>
>>> It looks awesome. I really wish I could've prepared in advance for this
>>> and have the 600$. It's only 20$ from me today...
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure not all the details are layed down specifically because
>>> they need the money first
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 23, 2013, Joey Carlini wrote:
>>>
>>>> Misunderstood Andrew's email, that's his signature... *facepalm*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't understand your question. All Android and Ubuntu smartphones do
>>>> multitasking.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Joey Carlini wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If it's a multicore, then multitasking is built in, right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't really see any other options that they could pick besides the
>>>> Snapdragon 800, but they seem to have left their options open in case
>>>> something else crops up. I'd like to know what kind of processor it is too,
>>>> but they're being rather coy about that, so I imagine they won't say just
>>>> yet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Andrew Sutherland <
>>>> dr3wsuth3rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>- Fastest multi-core CPU, 4GB RAM, 128GB storage
>>>>
>>>> I hope this means Snapdragon. I pledged my 600, but this is my main
>>>> concern.
>>>>
>>>> ==  Multitasking is inherently impossible.  ==
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Alex Chiang wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It's going to use ARM. That's not in question, I'm pretty sure.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Yes, it will be an ARM SoC.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Josh
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> Post to :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Zisu Andrei
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

ahhh. Or forever hold your peace (and browse eBay.)

first I sent it only to him, then I missed a line when sending it to the
full list... blah.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jul 22, 2013 7:05 PM, "Josh Leverette"  wrote:

> it will not be 64 bit. No such ARM chips are even available yet. Probably
> lots of xda people. They're the kind that buy this stuff. You can't. Your
> only chance is this indiegogo crowdfunding event. Buy within the next 30
> days, or forever
>
> Sincerely,
> Josh
> On Jul 22, 2013 7:03 PM, "Ryan Granger"  wrote:
>
>> All I care about with this phone is:
>> Will CPU be 64bit ?
>> How many people on xda will get it and do development for it?
>> And where can I get one after its been released.? I hear carriers won't
>> be receiving this handset.
>>
>> Peter Chinetti  wrote:
>>>
>>> Any idea if it will run on Verizon bands? (I see the 'dual band LTE',
>>> but I don't know what that means)
>>> I could almost justify not eating to get a _super_ nifty phone.
>>> As a note, this phone costs more than my laptop :)
>>> On Jul 22, 2013 5:46 PM, "Zisu Andrei"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> It looks awesome. I really wish I could've prepared in advance for this
>>>> and have the 600$. It's only 20$ from me today...
>>>>
>>>> I'm pretty sure not all the details are layed down specifically because
>>>> they need the money first
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, July 23, 2013, Joey Carlini wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Misunderstood Andrew's email, that's his signature... *facepalm*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't understand your question. All Android and Ubuntu smartphones
>>>>> do multitasking.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Joey Carlini wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If it's a multicore, then multitasking is built in, right?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't really see any other options that they could pick besides the
>>>>> Snapdragon 800, but they seem to have left their options open in case
>>>>> something else crops up. I'd like to know what kind of processor it is 
>>>>> too,
>>>>> but they're being rather coy about that, so I imagine they won't say just
>>>>> yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Andrew Sutherland <
>>>>> dr3wsuth3rl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>- Fastest multi-core CPU, 4GB RAM, 128GB storage
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope this means Snapdragon. I pledged my 600, but this is my main
>>>>> concern.
>>>>>
>>>>> ==  Multitasking is inherently impossible.  ==
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Alex Chiang wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Josh Leverette 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It's going to use ARM. That's not in question, I'm pretty sure.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Yes, it will be an ARM SoC.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Josh
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>> Post to :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Zisu Andrei
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

wait, what?! how can it be 64 bit? my mind is blown right now. This is
crazy awesome news, if true... those chips aren't even supposed to hit
market until late next year, last I heard.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jul 22, 2013 7:06 PM, "Jackson Doak"  wrote:

>  yes
> yes
> ebay
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Ryan Granger 
> wrote:
> > All I care about with this phone is:
> > Will CPU be 64bit ?
> > How many people on xda will get it and do development for it?
> > And where can I get one after its been released.? I hear carriers won't
> be
> > receiving this handset.
> >
> > Peter Chinetti  wrote:
> >>
> >> Any idea if it will run on Verizon bands? (I see the 'dual band LTE',
> but
> >> I don't know what that means)
> >> I could almost justify not eating to get a _super_ nifty phone.
> >> As a note, this phone costs more than my laptop :)
> >>
> >> On Jul 22, 2013 5:46 PM, "Zisu Andrei"  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> It looks awesome. I really wish I could've prepared in advance for this
> >>> and have the 600$. It's only 20$ from me today...
> >>>
> >>> I'm pretty sure not all the details are layed down specifically because
> >>> they need the money first
> >>>
> >>> On Tuesday, July 23, 2013, Joey Carlini wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Misunderstood Andrew's email, that's his signature... *facepalm*
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Josh Leverette 
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't understand your question. All Android and Ubuntu smartphones
> do
> >>>> multitasking.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Joey Carlini 
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> If it's a multicore, then multitasking is built in, right?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Josh Leverette 
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't really see any other options that they could pick besides the
> >>>> Snapdragon 800, but they seem to have left their options open in case
> >>>> something else crops up. I'd like to know what kind of processor it
> is too,
> >>>> but they're being rather coy about that, so I imagine they won't say
> just
> >>>> yet.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Andrew Sutherland
> >>>>  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Fastest multi-core CPU, 4GB RAM, 128GB storage
> >>>>
> >>>> I hope this means Snapdragon. I pledged my 600, but this is my main
> >>>> concern.
> >>>>
> >>>> ==  Multitasking is inherently impossible.  ==
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Alex Chiang 
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Josh Leverette 
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> It's going to use ARM. That's not in question, I'm pretty sure.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, it will be an ARM SoC.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> >>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> >>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> >>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> >>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> >>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> >>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Sincerely,
> >>>> Josh
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> >>>> Post to :
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Zisu Andrei
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> >>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> >>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >>>
> >> --
> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> >> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> >
> > --
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> > Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

This is Canonical, and they're purposefully taking in enough funding to
make this happen smoothly. Hard to believe as it may be, I think they know
what they're doing.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jul 22, 2013 7:43 PM, "Mike Bybee"  wrote:

>  On 07/22/2013 01:53 PM, Jim Hodapp wrote:
>
> How can you get burned? You donate $600, the campaign makes it to $32M,
> you get an Ubuntu Edge, if not, you're not out a dime.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Mike Bybee wrote:
>
>>   On 07/22/2013 12:05 PM, Sam Bull wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 2013-07-22 at 13:47 -0500, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>
>>  Cool. Also, I wrote a Python script for my personal use, to watch the
>> amount of funding that the Ubuntu Edge has
>> received! http://pastebin.com/TJ1Hvktw
>>
>>  Thanks for that, just popped that into my conky script. :D
>>
>>
>>
>>   I'm so in - *really* want to throw down the $600 - but I've been so
>> burned by things like Ouya that I'm going to stick with the $20 pledge
>> instead.
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>  You missed the most frequent option we've hit so far with crowdsourced
> hardware - it gets funded, there's tons of fulfilment/shipping/distribution
> issues and|or the hardware completely sucks and has "alpha" all over it.
> See Ouya as a capital example. There's plenty of others, of course. The
> Nvidia shield may be another one, we'll have to see there. Several open
> source gaming platforms, the OpenMoko handset, etc.
> Actually, you're more likely to get burned that to have it come up roses.
>
> Sorry, I rode *all* the rides like that I can afford to. Only Pebble
> turned out for me in the last 36 mos.
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [design] [development] Some thoughts about Ubuntu touch on the Nexus 10

[Josh Leverette]

I can't find the launchpad page for the homescreen. What is the name of
that package? And where should I report bugs about the swipe gestures?
Also, where is the system settings app? Otherwise, I've reported most of
these bugs.


On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 4:07 AM, Zisu Andrei  wrote:

> He was asking for some help in reporting them.
>
> Zisu Andrei
>
>
> On 12 July 2013 07:15, Fola Dawodu  wrote:
>
>>  well if you don’t write them its becomes exponentially more difficult
>> for people to fix them.
>> How does one fix a problem one is unaware of?
>>
>> The proper place to file these complaints is the bug tracker.. if you
>> want to help get them squashed that is.
>>
>>
>> On 11/07/2013 22:56, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>
>> I've been trying for days to find time to write these bug reports, but I
>> just haven't been able to. If no one else writes them up, I'll try to, but
>> I'm not sure when I'll have time.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Jono Bacon  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  *I'm honestly a huge supporter of Ubuntu touch, but this experience
>>>> was not inspiring. I have lost confidence that the tablet version will be
>>>> ready at all for the fall release cycle... maybe by next spring. On the
>>>> other hand, the phone version looks to be quite close to complete.*
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Josh, thanks for testing out the image, but please bear a few things
>>> in mind:
>>>
>>>   1) This is in-development software; many things are broken, and when
>>> you find broken things, that is really helpful, but please file bugs. Bugs
>>> are a lot more useful than mailing list posts and will help get these
>>> issues onto the radar of our developers.
>>>   2) You are likely to see more bugs right now on tablet as the core
>>> focus at the moment is on the phone. The development team are focusing on
>>> getting the phone spun up (although this is all built within the converged
>>> codebase) and then when the phone is largely in place they will go and
>>> resolve tablet-related issues. As such, expect a buggier tablet experience.
>>> I know this sucks if you have a tablet, but we have to centralize the team
>>> around one of the device types first (phone) to ensure we are not all
>>> fragmented across different form factors.
>>>
>>>  Again, thanks for the feedback, but if you can file these as bugs and
>>> follow up with those bug reports as our devs respond, that would be really
>>> helpful. :-)
>>>
>>>  Thanks,
>>>
>>> Jono
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jono Bacon
>>> Ubuntu Community Manager
>>> www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org
>>> www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

yeah. I agree. There will be plenty of mid and low end Ubuntu phones
eventually. This is not one of those.


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Simon  wrote:

> This campain isn't (mainly) about selling Ubuntu Touch. It is to tell
> manufacturers: "Hey there is a demand for Smartphones with power beyond
> the todays specs".
>
> So implementing possibilities to "buy" a smartphone with less specs
> isn't compatible with the goal of this campaign.
>
> Am 23.07.2013 15:13, schrieb Omar B.:
> >> I hope it will be selling not only through indiegogo. I want this
> phone, but I will not found 830 USD till 21th of August
> > it will be exclusive to backers. And I think this needs to be made more
> clear.
> > However, I think people are also confused about the 600 and $830, there
> needs to be a bit more differentiation for the latter to become more
> attractive.
> > And weekly limited time perks in the 650 to $750 range (maybe a perk
> with a smaller 64GB sdd, one with smaller CPU, or just one LTE, or less
> ram, etc., some extras to the $830, etc. ) would bring back those deal
> seekers, that can't say no to a deal :D
> > This campaign is also competing with those looking to upgrade to new
> models (iphone 5, samsung 4s, etc.) So if give them a perk in that price
> range they will think twice. :)
> > Limited amount STORE perks would help those small stores that missed the
> 600 perk, that only want 10 or 20 but not full pricing.
> > Lets fill those niches, kill the wallet-doubts and speed up this
> campaign again !!
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> kind regards
>
> Simon
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

Stores and resellers were not purchasing from indiegogo yesterday. There
might have been one or two, but that's simply not what happened. This whole
campaign is all about individuals buying these phones. I don't want to see
this campaign fail anymore than you do. People will either buy them at
$830, or they won't.


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Omar B.  wrote:

> >So implementing possibilities to "buy" a smartphone with less specs isn't
> compatible with the goal of this campaign.
>
> A little less specs Not being compatible is your opinion.
>
> The only fact I see is that they set a goal and would much prefer for it to 
> be be reached. Am sure they have months or years planning it and waiting for 
> the right moment.
>
> It's not so positive if the campaign gets stuck at like 10 or 13 million, 
> there's not much impact about that.
>
> Even with less specs the phone will be a top tier phone. But what really 
> makes the phone is not the hardware, but the software combination and 
> possibilities. So it will still do things that many others wont. Getting 
> ubuntu to more users and developers hands has always been a primary goal.
>
> Anyway many resellers got into the 600 promo, but that is over. There's no 
> deal or perk for them anymore, so they left. For Stores and resellers, 40k 
> limited time phones is not that much if you got them, but they don't want to 
> pay full price, because they need to make some returns, so they need now 
> perks that give them discounts for a higher quantity purchase.
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

Hmm. Ok. I use Verizon too, but I would switch to Straight Talk (uses
AT&T's network) for this phone. Here's why this phone cannot possibly come
to Verizon.

With CDMA networks, the carrier has complete control over every phone that
tries to connect to the network. They check the device ID and decide
whether it is authorized to connect, then they compare the device ID to the
service plan you've selected and decide whether your service plan allows
that phone to be used. They claim that this is all for "quality control",
and that's the reasoning they'll stick to. The reality for end users is
that any phone they want to use on that network has to go through months of
*very *expensive testing in the carrier's own labs and field personnel.
With a GSM network like Straight Talk, you pop your SIM card in and go.
Canonical would have to ship several Ubuntu Edge phones to Verizon, and
then Verizon would have to eventually decide that they approve it. But
wait, what if someone uses Sprint? or one of Japan's CDMA networks? They
have to send handsets to each of these to each one to approve the phone for
their network. So, for a 40,000 phone production run, they've just sent off
between 10 and 100 of the devices to carriers *just for the chance* of
being accepted. Oh, and since we're now making CDMA and GSM phones, the
production costs are significantly higher now that we're no longer
producing 40,000 of one design. We're now making 35,000 of one and *only
5,000* of the other. A 5,000 device run would not be affordable.

As you said, what if we made it a GSM/CDMA combo phone? well, that means
that the majority of your customers now pay for a CDMA antenna that they're
never going to use. But, it also wouldn't be pioneering anything. The
Motorola Razr M is a CDMA/GSM combo device with 4G LTE. You still wouldn't
be able to jump to any carrier you can imagine, because of how restrictive
CDMA networks are.

Furthermore, Verizon (and any other CDMA carrier) would want *full* control
of the phone. This is how they screwed the Galaxy Nexus for Verizon (the
phone I currently have). My GNex is months behind the GSM GNex phones in
terms of updates, because Verizon took over that, which went against
everything Google and Verizon agreed to. Verizon also installed bloatware
on the CDMA GNex. They made a pure phone like a Nexus device into a very
dirty device. Canonical would have to give up everything that is noble
about this campaign to get Verizon to let those phones to connect to their
network.

It cannot happen, and it will not happen. Verizon has great infrastructure,
but their customer experience has been very unsatisfactory for me.

Do no GSM carriers service your area? AT&T has really redoubled their
infrastructure efforts over the last couple of years, from what I've seen.


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Daniel Clem  wrote:

> Agreed. And here in USA the "Modern American Mentality” has taken over and
> people don't realized that high quality products come at a price. They are
> used to 2 year contracts that get them "latest hardware” at 200 to 300. But
> this device being 3 times the power and quality, but not 3 times the price
> goes over Kant's heads.
>
> I am very low income, but I can save up $830 in 3 to 4 weeks. But again, I
> NEED Verizon because I, as many others also, live in a rural area.
> Eventually we will have LTE, but not for 2 to 4 years.
>
> Since these won't be manufactured till months after the fund ends.
> Requesting 1 or 2 thousand CDMA should be that hard. Or since this is
> flagged as a "Open Device ” why not pioneer the first LTE capable Combo
> phone? CDMA+GSM. Only using the one you need. So later if you wish you can
> jump to any carrier you can imagine. Making it Truly Open.
>
> Just some thoughts. God Bless
>
> Josh Leverette  wrote:
>>
>> Stores and resellers were not purchasing from indiegogo yesterday. There
>> might have been one or two, but that's simply not what happened. This whole
>> campaign is all about individuals buying these phones. I don't want to see
>> this campaign fail anymore than you do. People will either buy them at
>> $830, or they won't.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Omar B.  wrote:
>>
>>> >So implementing possibilities to "buy" a smartphone with less specs isn't
>>> compatible with the goal of this campaign.
>>>
>>> A little less specs Not being compatible is your opinion.
>>>
>>> The only fact I see is that they set a goal and would much prefer for it to 
>>> be be reached. Am sure they have months or years planning it and waiting 
>>> for the right moment.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's not so 

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/16/verizon-unlimited-data-plans_n_1521967.html

It doesn't matter that you're grandfathered. You won't have unlimited by
the time your next contract rolls around, from what I understand. However,
I am curious. How much data do you use each month, exactly? I have 4GB per
month and barely use 2GB of that.


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Daniel Clem  wrote:

> i knew they were bad, but didn't know they were bad.
>
> AT&T's and other GSM carriers maps does show our house as having medium
> signal but my Sister on T mobile can barely make a call without dropping
> it. I would like to find someone with AT&T to test it. But I don't know of
> any.
>
> Plus I am "grandfathered into unlimited data” and I tether quite a bit. So
> Any other carrier has to have unlimited at a decent price. Say less than 80
> a month for data.
>
> I have barely made it out of contract with this Motor Droid 2 (3rd
> replacement) , hence why I and searching hard for a solid device. I can
> make a case for the Edge no big deal.
>
>
> Josh Leverette  wrote:
>>
>> Hmm. Ok. I use Verizon too, but I would switch to Straight Talk (uses
>> AT&T's network) for this phone. Here's why this phone cannot possibly come
>> to Verizon.
>>
>> With CDMA networks, the carrier has complete control over every phone
>> that tries to connect to the network. They check the device ID and decide
>> whether it is authorized to connect, then they compare the device ID to the
>> service plan you've selected and decide whether your service plan allows
>> that phone to be used. They claim that this is all for "quality control",
>> and that's the reasoning they'll stick to. The reality for end users is
>> that any phone they want to use on that network has to go through months of
>> *very *expensive testing in the carrier's own labs and field personnel.
>> With a GSM network like Straight Talk, you pop your SIM card in and go.
>> Canonical would have to ship several Ubuntu Edge phones to Verizon, and
>> then Verizon would have to eventually decide that they approve it. But
>> wait, what if someone uses Sprint? or one of Japan's CDMA networks? They
>> have to send handsets to each of these to each one to approve the phone for
>> their network. So, for a 40,000 phone production run, they've just sent off
>> between 10 and 100 of the devices to carriers *just for the chance* of
>> being accepted. Oh, and since we're now making CDMA and GSM phones, the
>> production costs are significantly higher now that we're no longer
>> producing 40,000 of one design. We're now making 35,000 of one and *only
>> 5,000* of the other. A 5,000 device run would not be affordable.
>>
>> As you said, what if we made it a GSM/CDMA combo phone? well, that means
>> that the majority of your customers now pay for a CDMA antenna that they're
>> never going to use. But, it also wouldn't be pioneering anything. The
>> Motorola Razr M is a CDMA/GSM combo device with 4G LTE. You still wouldn't
>> be able to jump to any carrier you can imagine, because of how restrictive
>> CDMA networks are.
>>
>> Furthermore, Verizon (and any other CDMA carrier) would want *full* control
>> of the phone. This is how they screwed the Galaxy Nexus for Verizon (the
>> phone I currently have). My GNex is months behind the GSM GNex phones in
>> terms of updates, because Verizon took over that, which went against
>> everything Google and Verizon agreed to. Verizon also installed bloatware
>> on the CDMA GNex. They made a pure phone like a Nexus device into a very
>> dirty device. Canonical would have to give up everything that is noble
>> about this campaign to get Verizon to let those phones to connect to their
>> network.
>>
>> It cannot happen, and it will not happen. Verizon has great
>> infrastructure, but their customer experience has been very unsatisfactory
>> for me.
>>
>> Do no GSM carriers service your area? AT&T has really redoubled their
>> infrastructure efforts over the last couple of years, from what I've seen.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Daniel Clem  wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed. And here in USA the "Modern American Mentality” has taken over
>>> and people don't realized that high quality products come at a price. They
>>> are used to 2 year contracts that get them "latest hardware” at 200 to 300.
>>> But this device being 3 times the power and quality, but not 3 times the
>>> price goes over Kant's

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

I'm not saying companies *couldn't* buy from the indiegogo deal. I'm just
saying the companies with the money to buy from this fundraiser wouldn't be
able to move fast enough to have gotten in on the 1st day of sales.
Companies move slowly for the most part, and I was watching the sales
figures carefully. I've even plotted them on a graph over time as the data
has come in, starting at about $1.5million dollars in sales. I should've
started the data collection earlier, but I stupidly didn't think to. I
watched the number from the start though, even though they weren't being
recorded. The rates were constant. There was no bulk purchase done by any
one company. If you would like to review my numbers, I can send you the
spreadsheet.


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Omar B.  wrote:

> >Stores and resellers were not purchasing from indiegogo yesterday. There
> might have been one or two, but that's simply not what happened. This whole
> campaign is all about individuals buying these phones. I don't want to see
> this campaign fail anymore than you do. People will either buy them at
> $830, or they won't.
>
>
> yes... sure.
>
> I didn't see anywhere that said limited one per client.
>
> Or that you shouldn't get involved with business reasons in mind and get a
> bunch of them.
>
> There's nothing to lose at the moment, which makes it even better. In
> fact anyone can come in and buy most of the 35k remaining, I don't think
> its prohibited.
>
> I believe even companies got into the discounted 600 tier and took their
> share and is why you see 0 in the enterprise tier. Why would you as a
> company pay 80/160k when you can pay 60/120k right there (Big discount in
> one go), is a no brainer, they wouldn't survive as companies by being dumb
> about $, specially on this economy.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

Verizon does want in, but on phones they can control. This won't be the
first or the last Ubuntu phone to hit market, by any means.


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Joey Carlini  wrote:

> Wait, why would Verizon be on the advisory board for Ubuntu Touch, if they
> want nothing to do with above?
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:53 AM, Daniel Clem  wrote:
>
>> i knew they were bad, but didn't know they were bad.
>>
>> AT&T's and other GSM carriers maps does show our house as having medium
>> signal but my Sister on T mobile can barely make a call without dropping
>> it. I would like to find someone with AT&T to test it. But I don't know of
>> any.
>>
>> Plus I am "grandfathered into unlimited data” and I tether quite a bit.
>> So Any other carrier has to have unlimited at a decent price. Say less than
>> 80 a month for data.
>>
>> I have barely made it out of contract with this Motor Droid 2 (3rd
>> replacement) , hence why I and searching hard for a solid device. I can
>> make a case for the Edge no big deal.
>>
>>
>> Josh Leverette  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hmm. Ok. I use Verizon too, but I would switch to Straight Talk (uses
>>> AT&T's network) for this phone. Here's why this phone cannot possibly come
>>> to Verizon.
>>>
>>> With CDMA networks, the carrier has complete control over every phone
>>> that tries to connect to the network. They check the device ID and decide
>>> whether it is authorized to connect, then they compare the device ID to the
>>> service plan you've selected and decide whether your service plan allows
>>> that phone to be used. They claim that this is all for "quality control",
>>> and that's the reasoning they'll stick to. The reality for end users is
>>> that any phone they want to use on that network has to go through months of
>>> *very *expensive testing in the carrier's own labs and field personnel.
>>> With a GSM network like Straight Talk, you pop your SIM card in and go.
>>> Canonical would have to ship several Ubuntu Edge phones to Verizon, and
>>> then Verizon would have to eventually decide that they approve it. But
>>> wait, what if someone uses Sprint? or one of Japan's CDMA networks? They
>>> have to send handsets to each of these to each one to approve the phone for
>>> their network. So, for a 40,000 phone production run, they've just sent off
>>> between 10 and 100 of the devices to carriers *just for the chance* of
>>> being accepted. Oh, and since we're now making CDMA and GSM phones, the
>>> production costs are significantly higher now that we're no longer
>>> producing 40,000 of one design. We're now making 35,000 of one and *only
>>> 5,000* of the other. A 5,000 device run would not be affordable.
>>>
>>> As you said, what if we made it a GSM/CDMA combo phone? well, that means
>>> that the majority of your customers now pay for a CDMA antenna that they're
>>> never going to use. But, it also wouldn't be pioneering anything. The
>>> Motorola Razr M is a CDMA/GSM combo device with 4G LTE. You still wouldn't
>>> be able to jump to any carrier you can imagine, because of how restrictive
>>> CDMA networks are.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, Verizon (and any other CDMA carrier) would want *full* control
>>> of the phone. This is how they screwed the Galaxy Nexus for Verizon (the
>>> phone I currently have). My GNex is months behind the GSM GNex phones in
>>> terms of updates, because Verizon took over that, which went against
>>> everything Google and Verizon agreed to. Verizon also installed bloatware
>>> on the CDMA GNex. They made a pure phone like a Nexus device into a very
>>> dirty device. Canonical would have to give up everything that is noble
>>> about this campaign to get Verizon to let those phones to connect to their
>>> network.
>>>
>>> It cannot happen, and it will not happen. Verizon has great
>>> infrastructure, but their customer experience has been very unsatisfactory
>>> for me.
>>>
>>> Do no GSM carriers service your area? AT&T has really redoubled their
>>> infrastructure efforts over the last couple of years, from what I've seen.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Daniel Clem wrote:
>>>
>>>> Agreed. And here in USA the "Modern American Mentality” has taken over
>>>> and people don't realized that high quality pr

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

Actually, this will probably help. This is the amount of funding the
project had received over time. The data was sampled at a rate of once
every 90 seconds. You can clearly see the moment when the $600 phone option
ran out. Calculating the trend line for the second half of the graph
indicates that the campaign will raise about $20,000,000 total over the
full period of the campaign, which is not enough. I believe that this is
the reason Canonical introduced the Double Edge option a few minutes ago,
which might boost sales by a little bit more. Hopefully this clarifies my
point. There lines are very smooth. If a company bought 100 units all at
once, there would be a visible blip on the graph, in my opinion. That would
be $60,000 in pledges all at once, which would break the monotony of the
graph.

[image: Inline image 1]


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Josh Leverette  wrote:

> I'm not saying companies *couldn't* buy from the indiegogo deal. I'm just
> saying the companies with the money to buy from this fundraiser wouldn't be
> able to move fast enough to have gotten in on the 1st day of sales.
> Companies move slowly for the most part, and I was watching the sales
> figures carefully. I've even plotted them on a graph over time as the data
> has come in, starting at about $1.5million dollars in sales. I should've
> started the data collection earlier, but I stupidly didn't think to. I
> watched the number from the start though, even though they weren't being
> recorded. The rates were constant. There was no bulk purchase done by any
> one company. If you would like to review my numbers, I can send you the
> spreadsheet.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Omar B.  wrote:
>
>> >Stores and resellers were not purchasing from indiegogo yesterday. There
>> might have been one or two, but that's simply not what happened. This whole
>> campaign is all about individuals buying these phones. I don't want to see
>> this campaign fail anymore than you do. People will either buy them at
>> $830, or they won't.
>>
>>
>> yes... sure.
>>
>> I didn't see anywhere that said limited one per client.
>>
>> Or that you shouldn't get involved with business reasons in mind and get
>> a bunch of them.
>>
>> There's nothing to lose at the moment, which makes it even better. In
>> fact anyone can come in and buy most of the 35k remaining, I don't think
>> its prohibited.
>>
>> I believe even companies got into the discounted 600 tier and took their
>> share and is why you see 0 in the enterprise tier. Why would you as a
>> company pay 80/160k when you can pay 60/120k right there (Big discount in
>> one go), is a no brainer, they wouldn't survive as companies by being dumb
>> about $, specially on this economy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Josh
>



-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
<>-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

The only number I'm writing down is the total funding amount so far at each
interval, I'm not writing anything down about individual users. I feel like
anything more than just looking at the total would be kind of sketchy. I
ran some analysis and out of all of the 90 second periods, the most amount
of contribution that the project received was $18,432 total during one 90
second interval. The average so far has been about $2,607 per 90 second
interval.


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Omar B.  wrote:

> Nice, thx for recording the data and the graph.
>
> did you get any data on individuals who may had purchased multiple times
> consecutively? , how many each individual got ?
>
> I Think indiegogo only lets you select one perk even if you add more cash
> to the amount.
>
> So it wouldn't be a surprise if some made multiple purchases consecutively.
>
> Anyway this will be a crucial week, hope their double edge and other perks
> get mass acceptance.
>
> --
> From: coder...@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:41:00 -0500
>
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)
> To: estela...@hotmail.com
> CC: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>
>
> Actually, this will probably help. This is the amount of funding the
> project had received over time. The data was sampled at a rate of once
> every 90 seconds. You can clearly see the moment when the $600 phone option
> ran out. Calculating the trend line for the second half of the graph
> indicates that the campaign will raise about $20,000,000 total over the
> full period of the campaign, which is not enough. I believe that this is
> the reason Canonical introduced the Double Edge option a few minutes ago,
> which might boost sales by a little bit more. Hopefully this clarifies my
> point. There lines are very smooth. If a company bought 100 units all at
> once, there would be a visible blip on the graph, in my opinion. That would
> be $60,000 in pledges all at once, which would break the monotony of the
> graph.
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>
> I'm not saying companies *couldn't* buy from the indiegogo deal. I'm just
> saying the companies with the money to buy from this fundraiser wouldn't be
> able to move fast enough to have gotten in on the 1st day of sales.
> Companies move slowly for the most part, and I was watching the sales
> figures carefully. I've even plotted them on a graph over time as the data
> has come in, starting at about $1.5million dollars in sales. I should've
> started the data collection earlier, but I stupidly didn't think to. I
> watched the number from the start though, even though they weren't being
> recorded. The rates were constant. There was no bulk purchase done by any
> one company. If you would like to review my numbers, I can send you the
> spreadsheet.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Omar B.  wrote:
>
> >Stores and resellers were not purchasing from indiegogo yesterday. There
> might have been one or two, but that's simply not what happened. This whole
> campaign is all about individuals buying these phones. I don't want to see
> this campaign fail anymore than you do. People will either buy them at
> $830, or they won't.
>
>
> yes... sure.
>
> I didn't see anywhere that said limited one per client.
>
> Or that you shouldn't get involved with business reasons in mind and get a
> bunch of them.
>
> There's nothing to lose at the moment, which makes it even better. In
> fact anyone can come in and buy most of the 35k remaining, I don't think
> its prohibited.
>
> I believe even companies got into the discounted 600 tier and took their
> share and is why you see 0 in the enterprise tier. Why would you as a
> company pay 80/160k when you can pay 60/120k right there (Big discount in
> one go), is a no brainer, they wouldn't survive as companies by being dumb
> about $, specially on this economy.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Josh
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Josh
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
<>-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

If you look at my graph, the average is significantly skewed by the $600
perk. The average slope for the 2nd half of the graph is $605.43 per 90
seconds. The real numbers aren't nearly that optimistic, which fits with
what I said in my earlier emails.


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Daniel Clem  wrote:

> If that trend holds there will be a total of almost 80,000,000. Obviously
> it will have ups and downs, but even half that average would reach the
> goal. Will re-investigate GSM's signal strength in my area, as well as data
> plans.
>
>
> Josh Leverette  wrote:
>>
>> The only number I'm writing down is the total funding amount so far at
>> each interval, I'm not writing anything down about individual users. I feel
>> like anything more than just looking at the total would be kind of sketchy.
>> I ran some analysis and out of all of the 90 second periods, the most
>> amount of contribution that the project received was $18,432 total during
>> one 90 second interval. The average so far has been about $2,607 per 90
>> second interval.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Omar B.  wrote:
>>
>>> Nice, thx for recording the data and the graph.
>>>
>>> did you get any data on individuals who may had purchased multiple times
>>> consecutively? , how many each individual got ?
>>>
>>> I Think indiegogo only lets you select one perk even if you add more
>>> cash to the amount.
>>>
>>> So it wouldn't be a surprise if some made multiple purchases
>>> consecutively.
>>>
>>> Anyway this will be a crucial week, hope their double edge and other
>>> perks get mass acceptance.
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: coder...@gmail.com
>>> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:41:00 -0500
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)
>>> To: estela...@hotmail.com
>>> CC: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, this will probably help. This is the amount of funding the
>>> project had received over time. The data was sampled at a rate of once
>>> every 90 seconds. You can clearly see the moment when the $600 phone option
>>> ran out. Calculating the trend line for the second half of the graph
>>> indicates that the campaign will raise about $20,000,000 total over the
>>> full period of the campaign, which is not enough. I believe that this is
>>> the reason Canonical introduced the Double Edge option a few minutes ago,
>>> which might boost sales by a little bit more. Hopefully this clarifies my
>>> point. There lines are very smooth. If a company bought 100 units all at
>>> once, there would be a visible blip on the graph, in my opinion. That would
>>> be $60,000 in pledges all at once, which would break the monotony of the
>>> graph.
>>>
>>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not saying companies *couldn't* buy from the indiegogo deal. I'm
>>> just saying the companies with the money to buy from this fundraiser
>>> wouldn't be able to move fast enough to have gotten in on the 1st day of
>>> sales. Companies move slowly for the most part, and I was watching the
>>> sales figures carefully. I've even plotted them on a graph over time as the
>>> data has come in, starting at about $1.5million dollars in sales. I
>>> should've started the data collection earlier, but I stupidly didn't think
>>> to. I watched the number from the start though, even though they weren't
>>> being recorded. The rates were constant. There was no bulk purchase done by
>>> any one company. If you would like to review my numbers, I can send you the
>>> spreadsheet.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Omar B.  wrote:
>>>
>>> >Stores and resellers were not purchasing from indiegogo yesterday.
>>> There might have been one or two, but that's simply not what happened. This
>>> whole campaign is all about individuals buying these phones. I don't want
>>> to see this campaign fail anymore than you do. People will either buy them
>>> at $830, or they won't.
>>>
>>>
>>> yes... sure.
>>>
>>> I didn't see anywhere that said limited one per client.
>>>
>>> Or that you shouldn't get involved with business reasons in mind and get
>>> a bunch o

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

Correction, "The real numbers aren't nearly that optimistic", where "that"
refers to your $80,000,000 number. The real numbers aren't nearly
*that* optimistic.
They're in the range of $20,000,000 or so for all pledges combined
throughout the next month.


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Josh Leverette  wrote:

> If you look at my graph, the average is significantly skewed by the $600
> perk. The average slope for the 2nd half of the graph is $605.43 per 90
> seconds. The real numbers aren't nearly that optimistic, which fits with
> what I said in my earlier emails.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Daniel Clem  wrote:
>
>> If that trend holds there will be a total of almost 80,000,000. Obviously
>> it will have ups and downs, but even half that average would reach the
>> goal. Will re-investigate GSM's signal strength in my area, as well as data
>> plans.
>>
>>
>> Josh Leverette  wrote:
>>>
>>> The only number I'm writing down is the total funding amount so far at
>>> each interval, I'm not writing anything down about individual users. I feel
>>> like anything more than just looking at the total would be kind of sketchy.
>>> I ran some analysis and out of all of the 90 second periods, the most
>>> amount of contribution that the project received was $18,432 total during
>>> one 90 second interval. The average so far has been about $2,607 per 90
>>> second interval.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Omar B.  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nice, thx for recording the data and the graph.
>>>>
>>>> did you get any data on individuals who may had purchased multiple
>>>> times consecutively? , how many each individual got ?
>>>>
>>>> I Think indiegogo only lets you select one perk even if you add more
>>>> cash to the amount.
>>>>
>>>> So it wouldn't be a surprise if some made multiple purchases
>>>> consecutively.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway this will be a crucial week, hope their double edge and other
>>>> perks get mass acceptance.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> From: coder...@gmail.com
>>>> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:41:00 -0500
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)
>>>> To: estela...@hotmail.com
>>>> CC: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually, this will probably help. This is the amount of funding the
>>>> project had received over time. The data was sampled at a rate of once
>>>> every 90 seconds. You can clearly see the moment when the $600 phone option
>>>> ran out. Calculating the trend line for the second half of the graph
>>>> indicates that the campaign will raise about $20,000,000 total over the
>>>> full period of the campaign, which is not enough. I believe that this is
>>>> the reason Canonical introduced the Double Edge option a few minutes ago,
>>>> which might boost sales by a little bit more. Hopefully this clarifies my
>>>> point. There lines are very smooth. If a company bought 100 units all at
>>>> once, there would be a visible blip on the graph, in my opinion. That would
>>>> be $60,000 in pledges all at once, which would break the monotony of the
>>>> graph.
>>>>
>>>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm not saying companies *couldn't* buy from the indiegogo deal. I'm
>>>> just saying the companies with the money to buy from this fundraiser
>>>> wouldn't be able to move fast enough to have gotten in on the 1st day of
>>>> sales. Companies move slowly for the most part, and I was watching the
>>>> sales figures carefully. I've even plotted them on a graph over time as the
>>>> data has come in, starting at about $1.5million dollars in sales. I
>>>> should've started the data collection earlier, but I stupidly didn't think
>>>> to. I watched the number from the start though, even though they weren't
>>>> being recorded. The rates were constant. There was no bulk purchase done by
>>>> any one company. If you would like to review my numbers, I can send you the
>>>> spreadsheet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Omar B. wrote:
>

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

Yes, they're all the same. The $625 and $675 ones are only available in a
limited quantity.


On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Jean-Marc Gailis  wrote:

> I want to know if the Edge at 625 $ or 675 $ the same that at 830 $??
> Can Canonical answer to my question?
>
> Jean-Marc Gailis
> Janis-Marks Gailis
> Thunderbird Translator
> Latvian Ubuntu Translator
> Ubuntu Translator Team
> Mozilla Translator Team
> "Think Global, Make Locales."
>
>
> 2013/7/24 Renato Filho 
>
>> Hi  Guys,
>>
>> I was reading the comments on the project page and something that call my
>> attention is a guy asking about the notification led, and I think this is
>> very important feature which I did not see any spec. Since this was a
>> mistake that google did on the first  phone. I would like to know if we
>> have this on ubuntu edge?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Sam Bull  wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 2013-07-24 at 11:51 +, Omar B. wrote:
>>> > They're all the same so am kinda confused.
>>>
>>> They're also all limited. So, the later you come to the campaign, the
>>> more you'll have to pay. They can't offer an unlimited amount at $625,
>>> it's just a limited offer, which becomes less of a discount the longer
>>> you wait.
>>>
>>> Offering a 64GB version of the phone is unlikely, as that would require
>>> them having two production lines or something.
>>>
>>> Maybe some supporter options in the region of $50 might be nice, with
>>> some of the other things you've listed.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

PayPal lets you pay using a credit card? generally, PayPal lets you make
one time payments without an account, as well, but this might be a little
different as it is crowdfunding.


On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Luke Bryan  wrote:

> Definitely something I'd like to support... but why does this require a
> paypal account?? No credit/check payment option?
>
> --
> From: coder...@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 09:40:41 -0500
> To: jeanmarc.gai...@gmail.com
> CC: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)
>
> Yes, they're all the same. The $625 and $675 ones are only available in a
> limited quantity.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Jean-Marc Gailis <
> jeanmarc.gai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I want to know if the Edge at 625 $ or 675 $ the same that at 830 $??
> Can Canonical answer to my question?
>
> Jean-Marc Gailis
> Janis-Marks Gailis
> Thunderbird Translator
> Latvian Ubuntu Translator
> Ubuntu Translator Team
> Mozilla Translator Team
> "Think Global, Make Locales."
>
>
> 2013/7/24 Renato Filho 
>
> Hi  Guys,
>
> I was reading the comments on the project page and something that call my
> attention is a guy asking about the notification led, and I think this is
> very important feature which I did not see any spec. Since this was a
> mistake that google did on the first  phone. I would like to know if we
> have this on ubuntu edge?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Sam Bull  wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2013-07-24 at 11:51 +, Omar B. wrote:
> > They're all the same so am kinda confused.
>
> They're also all limited. So, the later you come to the campaign, the
> more you'll have to pay. They can't offer an unlimited amount at $625,
> it's just a limited offer, which becomes less of a discount the longer
> you wait.
>
> Offering a 64GB version of the phone is unlikely, as that would require
> them having two production lines or something.
>
> Maybe some supporter options in the region of $50 might be nice, with
> some of the other things you've listed.
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Josh
>
> -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone Post to :
> ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe :
> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone More help :
> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

Ok guys, so, the new, lower, and rather ephemeral price points have had a
very positive impact. Here's the newest funds-raised graph, as of a couple
of minutes ago.

[image: Inline image 1]


On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Josh Leverette  wrote:

> PayPal lets you pay using a credit card? generally, PayPal lets you make
> one time payments without an account, as well, but this might be a little
> different as it is crowdfunding.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Luke Bryan  wrote:
>
>> Definitely something I'd like to support... but why does this require a
>> paypal account?? No credit/check payment option?
>>
>> --
>> From: coder...@gmail.com
>> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 09:40:41 -0500
>> To: jeanmarc.gai...@gmail.com
>> CC: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)
>>
>> Yes, they're all the same. The $625 and $675 ones are only available in a
>> limited quantity.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Jean-Marc Gailis <
>> jeanmarc.gai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I want to know if the Edge at 625 $ or 675 $ the same that at 830 $??
>> Can Canonical answer to my question?
>>
>> Jean-Marc Gailis
>> Janis-Marks Gailis
>> Thunderbird Translator
>> Latvian Ubuntu Translator
>> Ubuntu Translator Team
>> Mozilla Translator Team
>> "Think Global, Make Locales."
>>
>>
>> 2013/7/24 Renato Filho 
>>
>> Hi  Guys,
>>
>> I was reading the comments on the project page and something that call my
>> attention is a guy asking about the notification led, and I think this is
>> very important feature which I did not see any spec. Since this was a
>> mistake that google did on the first  phone. I would like to know if we
>> have this on ubuntu edge?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Sam Bull  wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 2013-07-24 at 11:51 +, Omar B. wrote:
>> > They're all the same so am kinda confused.
>>
>> They're also all limited. So, the later you come to the campaign, the
>> more you'll have to pay. They can't offer an unlimited amount at $625,
>> it's just a limited offer, which becomes less of a discount the longer
>> you wait.
>>
>> Offering a 64GB version of the phone is unlikely, as that would require
>> them having two production lines or something.
>>
>> Maybe some supporter options in the region of $50 might be nice, with
>> some of the other things you've listed.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>>
>> -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone Post to :
>> ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe :
>> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone More help :
>> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Josh
>



-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
<>-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

And I guess I should mention, it is dollars raised on the y-axis, and # of
elapsed 90-second intervals on the x-axis. Each sample is 90 seconds long,
and the x axis is just showing the sample number at that location.

The large, mostly flat region is yesterday. The strong slope at the front
is back when the $600 model was on sale. The respectable slope on the right
is the result of the new, lower priced options that became available today.


On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Josh Leverette  wrote:

> Ok guys, so, the new, lower, and rather ephemeral price points have had a
> very positive impact. Here's the newest funds-raised graph, as of a couple
> of minutes ago.
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>
>> PayPal lets you pay using a credit card? generally, PayPal lets you make
>> one time payments without an account, as well, but this might be a little
>> different as it is crowdfunding.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Luke Bryan  wrote:
>>
>>> Definitely something I'd like to support... but why does this require a
>>> paypal account?? No credit/check payment option?
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: coder...@gmail.com
>>> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 09:40:41 -0500
>>> To: jeanmarc.gai...@gmail.com
>>> CC: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)
>>>
>>> Yes, they're all the same. The $625 and $675 ones are only available in
>>> a limited quantity.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Jean-Marc Gailis <
>>> jeanmarc.gai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I want to know if the Edge at 625 $ or 675 $ the same that at 830 $??
>>> Can Canonical answer to my question?
>>>
>>> Jean-Marc Gailis
>>> Janis-Marks Gailis
>>> Thunderbird Translator
>>> Latvian Ubuntu Translator
>>> Ubuntu Translator Team
>>> Mozilla Translator Team
>>> "Think Global, Make Locales."
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/7/24 Renato Filho 
>>>
>>> Hi  Guys,
>>>
>>> I was reading the comments on the project page and something that call
>>> my attention is a guy asking about the notification led, and I think this
>>> is very important feature which I did not see any spec. Since this was a
>>> mistake that google did on the first  phone. I would like to know if we
>>> have this on ubuntu edge?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Sam Bull  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, 2013-07-24 at 11:51 +, Omar B. wrote:
>>> > They're all the same so am kinda confused.
>>>
>>> They're also all limited. So, the later you come to the campaign, the
>>> more you'll have to pay. They can't offer an unlimited amount at $625,
>>> it's just a limited offer, which becomes less of a discount the longer
>>> you wait.
>>>
>>> Offering a 64GB version of the phone is unlikely, as that would require
>>> them having two production lines or something.
>>>
>>> Maybe some supporter options in the region of $50 might be nice, with
>>> some of the other things you've listed.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone Post to :
>>> ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe :
>>> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone More help :
>>> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Josh
>



-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
<>-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Phone Nexus 7 2

[Josh Leverette]

Is the galaxy nexus or the Nexus 4 the primary phone development device? I
think it will be similar with the two versions of the Nexus 7, which is to
say they're both well supported. To be honest though, the current Nexus 7
has been the least well supported device, because of Tegra 3 and just the
general quirkiness of the device. The new Nexus 7 is very similar to the
Nexus 4, so that should make it better supported, from a real world point
of view, if they choose to support it.
On Jul 24, 2013 10:47 PM, "A Random User"  wrote:

> Now that the new nexus 7 is offical, I have a few questions for the other
> developers. I have little doubt that the new newus seven will be ported to,
> but my main question is if the primary 7 inch tablet will remain with the
> nexus seven or will move on the new one. I am mostly curious because I am
> looking for a good ubuntu phone device. Ubuntu phone is currently still in
> the extreme developement stage, so I think it is important to have a device
> that will have lots of offical development and help.
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

ARM. that was answered earlier in this thread.
On Jul 25, 2013 12:24 AM, "Omar B."  wrote:

> So, ARM or Intel ?
>
> http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/6/4306956/intel-silvermont-atom-
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

That's astonishing. I thought it would be about 2016 before LTE would be
used for voice and texting, but apparently Verizon is moving things along
quite rapidly:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57591213-94/verizon-says-first-lte-only-phones-to-arrive-in-late-2014/

That says late 2014. This is a short production run of an ultra advanced
product. A few months early is less than surprising. So yes, this sounds
like it will work on Verizon. I apologize for being wrong earlier, I had no
idea that they would roll this out.
On Jul 29, 2013 7:05 PM, "Daniel Clem"  wrote:

> NEW UPDATE!!! The Indiegogo page now states specifically states the Edge
> will work with "LTE and GSM networks, including Verizon and Sprint” !!!
>
> Taking it exactly as it reads, that means it will not work on CDMA 3G. But
> once Verizon's LTE spreads to rural areas, the both voice and data will
> most likely switch to all LTE and phase out CDMA over a few years until all
> the (at that point) 3G legacy phones are no longer uses.
>
> What do you guys think??
>
> Daniel Clem  wrote:
>>
>> I deleted the more relevant mail already, so sorry for being out of
>> order. But we have a GSM phone and account from a pay as you go company
>> called "Tracfone”. Is this Sim card compatible with?? If so I will
>> definitely pledge one I have 830 saved.
>>
>> "Omar B."  wrote:
>>>
>>> Nice, thx for recording the data and the graph.
>>>
>>> did you get any data on individuals who may had purchased multiple times
>>> consecutively? , how many each individual got ?
>>>
>>> I Think indiegogo only lets you select one perk even if you add more
>>> cash to the amount.
>>>
>>> So it wouldn't be a surprise if some made multiple purchases
>>> consecutively.
>>>
>>> Anyway this will be a crucial week, hope their double edge and other
>>> perks get mass acceptance.
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: coder...@gmail.com
>>> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:41:00 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)
>>> To: estela...@hotmail.com
>>> CC: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>
>>> Actually, this will probably help. This is the amount of funding the
>>> project had received over time. The data was sampled at a rate of once
>>> every 90 seconds. You can clearly see the moment when the $600 phone option
>>> ran out. Calculating the trend line for the second half of the graph
>>> indicates that the campaign will raise about $20,000,000 total over the
>>> full period of the campaign, which is not enough. I believe that this is
>>> the reason Canonical introduced the Double Edge option a few minutes ago,
>>> which might boost sales by a little bit more. Hopefully this clarifies my
>>> point. There lines are very smooth. If a company bought 100 units all at
>>> once, there would be a visible blip on the graph, in my opinion. That would
>>> be $60,000 in pledges all at once, which would break the monotony of the
>>> graph.
>>>
>>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Josh Leverette wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not saying companies *couldn't* buy from the indiegogo deal. I'm
>>> just saying the companies with the money to buy from this fundraiser
>>> wouldn't be able to move fast enough to have gotten in on the 1st day of
>>> sales. Companies move slowly for the most part, and I was watching the
>>> sales figures carefully. I've even plotted them on a graph over time as the
>>> data has come in, starting at about $1.5million dollars in sales. I
>>> should've started the data collection earlier, but I stupidly didn't think
>>> to. I watched the number from the start though, even though they weren't
>>> being recorded. The rates were constant. There was no bulk purchase done by
>>> any one company. If you would like to review my numbers, I can send you the
>>> spreadsheet.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Omar B.  wrote:
>>>
>>> >Stores and resellers were not purchasing from indiegogo yesterday.
>>> There might have been one or two, but that's simply not what happened. This
>>> whole campaign is all about individuals buying these phones. I don't want
>>> to see this campaign fail anymore than you do. People will either buy them
>>> at $830, or they won't.
>>>
>>>
>>> yes... 

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Full-disk Encryption on Touch?

[Josh Leverette]

1) Read at least the first 3 or 4 posts here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1j166z/hi_im_mark_shuttleworth_founder_of_ubuntu/cba28et

2) It might require a little work, but yes. it should be possible to
disable lenses, but I doubt that functionality will be built-in in the
initial release (meaning you might have to delete a few files, or some
such).

(the following is my personal opinion, it's not required reading)

I will suggest that the home lenses are not really leaking data. There's no
dedicated shopping lens as yet, but the only data that could possibly be
"""leaked""" (based on currently available descriptions of the future
design of the lenses) is if you go to the movies lens and do a search for
"Serenity." It might provide the results of the same query on sites that
sell movies (such as Amazon), which would amount to giving you a convenient
way to get movies you don't already own. This functionality hasn't even
been implemented yet, so there's no guarantee of how it will work, but I'm
wondering how you could ever be discomfited by that """leak""" of
information (yes, I've triple-quoted that word because of how *not *applicable
it is to the situation) that I just described.

They know that *some *user on *some *phone *somewhere *(very specific
information, of course)* *enjoys watching Sci-Fi, listening to acoustic
music, and reading the works of Isaac Asimov. They still know nothing
useful, and they don't even know who you are to begin with unless you sign
in for them, and this is only assuming you're actually using the search
field. If you don't want them to know something, just don't search for it.

If personally identifiable information (PII) were being leaked, this would
be an entirely different discussion.

As a reminder to everyone who is concerned about privacy, your phone can be
tracked  without any
special software running on your phone, as long as it is connected to a
cellular network. If the government wants to have a log of where you are at
all times, it is possible for them to do it no matter what type of phone
you have.

There are far worse fates than Amazon being able to help you find what
you're looking for faster, in my opinion.


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 7:34 AM, Greg W  wrote:

> I'm considering buying the Nexus 4 solely to run Ubuntu-Touch in October.
> Since I dislike Android and have no interest in running Android, I want to
> make sure Ubuntu-Touch will have some of the Desktop privacy/security
> features I am seeking on the phone before buying:
>
> 1) will I be able to run full-disk encryption on Ubuntu Touch (i.e., will
> not boot without password)?
>
> 2) will I be able to disable/uninstall data leaking lenses/scopes (e.g.,
> Shopping, Video, Music)?
>
> Thanks, looking forward to Ubuntu Touch :)
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] WiFi Calling - most wanted mobile-phone feature

[Josh Leverette]

WiFi calling can already be done on all existing smartphones (Ubuntu phone
not yet included) by 3rd party applications. What you suggest *cannot* be
integrated with your carrier unless they choose to build that functionality
into the phone as an app. Look into Line2, Skype, Viber, and similar
applications. You would have to have a phone number separate from your
carrier, and use that as your primary phone number at all times. Republic
Wireless  offers WiFi calling. T-mobile does
as well.
It depends on the phone having special software to allow it to happen...
software that Canonical can't build into Ubuntu phone for all carriers, it
has to be done by them.

Automation of enabling and disabling the cellular antenna could probably be
done with a little scripting, but that's of little use to the average
person, which is why it isn't available. On Android, this would be
remarkably easy to do.

Ubuntu Edge isn't even funded yet. Nothing has prevented it from doing
anything yet.


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Greg W  wrote:

> My most desired mobile-phone feature is being able to make and receive
> calls over a WPA2 secured WiFi network. This is a feature I wish the Ubuntu
> Edge offered. I'd take WiFi Calling over any other mobile-phone
> feature/technology.
>
> My hope is that one day soon mobile-phone tech can provide Voice over
> WiFi. I'd like to be able to do the following:
> -disable the Cellular Antenna when at home/work but have the WiFi antenna
> enabled.
> -enable the Cellular Antenna when away from home/work & have WiFi antenna
> disabled
>
> This would remove congestion from cellular networks and also eliminate
> poor coverage problems within buildings and rural home areas. This is the
> feature/tech I want more than any other in the mobile-phone market.
>
> Are companies working towards providing this feature? Why isn't more being
> done to bring this capabilitiy to mobile phones? What prevented Ubuntu Edge
> from offering this feature?
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Full-disk Encryption on Touch?

[Josh Leverette]

And that configurability will inevitably reach Ubuntu phone, but I don't
know if it will make it into the v1.0 release. Here's the related document:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityAndPrivacySettings#Phone


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Greg W  wrote:

> Sure, I understand everyone is tracked. However, there are still privacy
> concerns with search data going to 3rd parties. Plus it eats into my data
> allotment.
>
> 1) data being sent to Amazon counts as data use. So if I don't want that
> data sent to Amazon anyways, I have even more incentive to disable it--it
> saves me money and data use.
>
> 2) searching for a movie can and cannot be an "innocuous" search. Other
> searches might be more personal and having it stored on some database of
> searches can make people uncomfortable. It could also be used by others for
> advertising, stereotyping, health insurance decisions etc. I think users
> should be able to control the data leaving their computer and I think that
> users should be able to configure their computing devices so that (if they
> choose) data are only sent at their direction to the entities they are
> purposely interacting with. I have more respect for software that gives
> users this configuration capability.
>
>
>
> --
> From: coder...@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:02:31 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Full-disk Encryption on Touch?
> To: mttbrns...@outlook.com
> CC: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>
>
> 1) Read at least the first 3 or 4 posts here:
> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1j166z/hi_im_mark_shuttleworth_founder_of_ubuntu/cba28et
>
> 2) It might require a little work, but yes. it should be possible to
> disable lenses, but I doubt that functionality will be built-in in the
> initial release (meaning you might have to delete a few files, or some
> such).
>
> (the following is my personal opinion, it's not required reading)
>
> I will suggest that the home lenses are not really leaking data. There's
> no dedicated shopping lens as yet, but the only data that could possibly be
> """leaked""" (based on currently available descriptions of the future
> design of the lenses) is if you go to the movies lens and do a search for
> "Serenity." It might provide the results of the same query on sites that
> sell movies (such as Amazon), which would amount to giving you a convenient
> way to get movies you don't already own. This functionality hasn't even
> been implemented yet, so there's no guarantee of how it will work, but I'm
> wondering how you could ever be discomfited by that """leak""" of
> information (yes, I've triple-quoted that word because of how *not *applicable
> it is to the situation) that I just described.
>
> They know that *some *user on *some *phone *somewhere *(very specific
> information, of course)* *enjoys watching Sci-Fi, listening to acoustic
> music, and reading the works of Isaac Asimov. They still know nothing
> useful, and they don't even know who you are to begin with unless you sign
> in for them, and this is only assuming you're actually using the search
> field. If you don't want them to know something, just don't search for it.
>
> If personally identifiable information (PII) were being leaked, this would
> be an entirely different discussion.
>
> As a reminder to everyone who is concerned about privacy, your phone can
> be tracked  without
> any special software running on your phone, as long as it is connected to a
> cellular network. If the government wants to have a log of where you are at
> all times, it is possible for them to do it no matter what type of phone
> you have.
>
> There are far worse fates than Amazon being able to help you find what
> you're looking for faster, in my opinion.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 7:34 AM, Greg W  wrote:
>
> I'm considering buying the Nexus 4 solely to run Ubuntu-Touch in October.
> Since I dislike Android and have no interest in running Android, I want to
> make sure Ubuntu-Touch will have some of the Desktop privacy/security
> features I am seeking on the phone before buying:
>
> 1) will I be able to run full-disk encryption on Ubuntu Touch (i.e., will
> not boot without password)?
>
> 2) will I be able to disable/uninstall data leaking lenses/scopes (e.g.,
> Shopping, Video, Music)?
>
> Thanks, looking forward to Ubuntu Touch :)
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Josh
>



-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] WiFi Calling - most wanted mobile-phone feature

[Josh Leverette]

This is not a simple request, and there is a lot of political reasoning
that would rather WiFi calling not be possible for the average user. We
don't have access to the internal pieces of their network required for any
of us to implement this technology and put them at a disadvantage. T-Mobile
already has phones that do this anyways, unlocked or not, so they wouldn't
be at a disadvantage to us even if we hacked their network to support this
feature.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jul 30, 2013 8:35 AM, "Greg W"  wrote:

> I intended that Cellular vs WiFi antennas would be switched on/off
> manually. For example, in iOS 7 there is the new Control Panel. It would be
> a simple manner to swipe up and then tap whatever antenna/s to
> enable/disable at will. User's choice whether to use Cell/WiFi.
>
> I don't use Skype because its security is compromised. [Other
> communications can be made secure with Red Phone, Silent Circle etc).
> Although being able to use the same phone number for both Cellular and WiFi
> would seem important, Apple allows iGadget users to do Facetime-Audio and
> iMessage solely over WiFi using an email address. I would have already run
> out and bought an iPhone if Facetime-Audio and iMessage would work across
> all devices and not just iDevices. Seems like the industry could figure out
> a way to have the same cellular number work over Cell & WiFi. Then WiFi
> could be used to call VOIP phones etc.
>
> It seems like if the industry got behind this (or Ubuntu Edge is
> successful & pushes this feature--the industry would have to respond
> because other phones that don't offer this service would be at a
> disadvantage). If I look at T-Mobile, none of its WiFi calling phones are
> unlocked. Couldn't open-source offer a carrier-specific package to download
> that could add this capability to the phone depending on which carrier it's
> for?
>
>
> --
> From: coder...@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:13:03 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] WiFi Calling - most wanted mobile-phone feature
> To: mttbrns...@outlook.com
> CC: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>
> WiFi calling can already be done on all existing smartphones (Ubuntu phone
> not yet included) by 3rd party applications. What you suggest *cannot* be
> integrated with your carrier unless they choose to build that functionality
> into the phone as an app. Look into Line2, Skype, Viber, and similar
> applications. You would have to have a phone number separate from your
> carrier, and use that as your primary phone number at all times. Republic
> Wireless  offers WiFi calling. T-mobile does
> as well.
> It depends on the phone having special software to allow it to happen...
> software that Canonical can't build into Ubuntu phone for all carriers, it
> has to be done by them.
>
> Automation of enabling and disabling the cellular antenna could probably
> be done with a little scripting, but that's of little use to the average
> person, which is why it isn't available. On Android, this would be
> remarkably easy to do.
>
> Ubuntu Edge isn't even funded yet. Nothing has prevented it from doing
> anything yet.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Greg W  wrote:
>
> My most desired mobile-phone feature is being able to make and receive
> calls over a WPA2 secured WiFi network. This is a feature I wish the Ubuntu
> Edge offered. I'd take WiFi Calling over any other mobile-phone
> feature/technology.
>
> My hope is that one day soon mobile-phone tech can provide Voice over
> WiFi. I'd like to be able to do the following:
> -disable the Cellular Antenna when at home/work but have the WiFi antenna
> enabled.
> -enable the Cellular Antenna when away from home/work & have WiFi antenna
> disabled
>
> This would remove congestion from cellular networks and also eliminate
> poor coverage problems within buildings and rural home areas. This is the
> feature/tech I want more than any other in the mobile-phone market.
>
> Are companies working towards providing this feature? Why isn't more being
> done to bring this capabilitiy to mobile phones? What prevented Ubuntu Edge
> from offering this feature?
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Josh
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Full-disk Encryption on Touch?

[Josh Leverette]

android lens?


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Oliver Grawert  wrote:

> hi,
> Am Dienstag, den 30.07.2013, 08:32 -0500 schrieb Jamie Strandboge:
> > On 07/30/2013 08:21 AM, Josh Leverette wrote:
> > > And that configurability will inevitably reach Ubuntu phone, but I
> don't know if
> > > it will make it into the v1.0 release. Here's the related
> > > document: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityAndPrivacySettings#Phone
> >
> > This is not scheduled for 13.10, but is scheduled for 14.04.
> >
> i dont think we ship the android lens yet (no idea if there are plans
> for it in 13.10 ubuntu touch)
>
> ciao
> oli
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] WiFi Calling - most wanted mobile-phone feature

[Josh Leverette]

SIP calling from the dialer app is no different than SIP calling from a 3rd
party app, realistically. I already suggested this as a solution to his
problem. Adding SIP to the dialer app, I have no problem with. The problem
is that you cannot integrate WiFi calling through the carrier's network
unless they let you. (as in, using your phone number that is registered to
the carrier, the number that the carrier is billing you for. You can make
all of the VOIP/SIP calls you want through their network, but that's subtly
different, and apparently not what the OP wants.)


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Sam Segers  wrote:

> An extension to the dialer that is accessible to app would be nice.
> Something like a setting that says "Call with carrier/Call with
> Skype/Always ask" when such an app is installed. Also support for
> SIP-accounts would do what Greg W asks. This is already included in many
> phones, probably yours to.
>
>
> 2013/7/30 Josh Leverette 
>
>> This is not a simple request, and there is a lot of political reasoning
>> that would rather WiFi calling not be possible for the average user. We
>> don't have access to the internal pieces of their network required for any
>> of us to implement this technology and put them at a disadvantage. T-Mobile
>> already has phones that do this anyways, unlocked or not, so they wouldn't
>> be at a disadvantage to us even if we hacked their network to support this
>> feature.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>> On Jul 30, 2013 8:35 AM, "Greg W"  wrote:
>>
>>> I intended that Cellular vs WiFi antennas would be switched on/off
>>> manually. For example, in iOS 7 there is the new Control Panel. It would be
>>> a simple manner to swipe up and then tap whatever antenna/s to
>>> enable/disable at will. User's choice whether to use Cell/WiFi.
>>>
>>> I don't use Skype because its security is compromised. [Other
>>> communications can be made secure with Red Phone, Silent Circle etc).
>>> Although being able to use the same phone number for both Cellular and WiFi
>>> would seem important, Apple allows iGadget users to do Facetime-Audio and
>>> iMessage solely over WiFi using an email address. I would have already run
>>> out and bought an iPhone if Facetime-Audio and iMessage would work across
>>> all devices and not just iDevices. Seems like the industry could figure out
>>> a way to have the same cellular number work over Cell & WiFi. Then WiFi
>>> could be used to call VOIP phones etc.
>>>
>>> It seems like if the industry got behind this (or Ubuntu Edge is
>>> successful & pushes this feature--the industry would have to respond
>>> because other phones that don't offer this service would be at a
>>> disadvantage). If I look at T-Mobile, none of its WiFi calling phones are
>>> unlocked. Couldn't open-source offer a carrier-specific package to download
>>> that could add this capability to the phone depending on which carrier it's
>>> for?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: coder...@gmail.com
>>> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:13:03 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] WiFi Calling - most wanted mobile-phone
>>> feature
>>> To: mttbrns...@outlook.com
>>> CC: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>
>>> WiFi calling can already be done on all existing smartphones (Ubuntu
>>> phone not yet included) by 3rd party applications. What you suggest *
>>> cannot* be integrated with your carrier unless they choose to build
>>> that functionality into the phone as an app. Look into Line2, Skype, Viber,
>>> and similar applications. You would have to have a phone number separate
>>> from your carrier, and use that as your primary phone number at all times. 
>>> Republic
>>> Wireless <http://www.republicwireless.com/> offers WiFi calling.
>>> T-mobile does as 
>>> well<http://t-mobile-coverage.t-mobile.com/4g-wireless-broadband-service>.
>>> It depends on the phone having special software to allow it to happen...
>>> software that Canonical can't build into Ubuntu phone for all carriers, it
>>> has to be done by them.
>>>
>>> Automation of enabling and disabling the cellular antenna could probably
>>> be done with a little scripting, but that's of little use to the average
>>> person, which is why it isn't available. On Android, this would be
>>> remarkably easy to do.
>>>
>>> Ubuntu Edge isn't even funded yet. Not

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

Yes.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jul 31, 2013 7:12 AM, "Николай Шатохин"  wrote:

> Is it possible to plug USB gamepad, USB flash or my custom USB device?
>
>
> 2013/7/31 Daniel Clem 
>
>> Host meaning plugging a USB hard drive into the Edge and accessing it?
>> That I don't know. Android now suuports this, and Ubuntu Touch being the
>> same code as Ubuntu Desktop, I assume it would be able to support this.
>>
>> The only question are there MHL to female USB connectors?? Anyone know?
>>
>>
>> "Николай Шатохин"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Will it have USB host?
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/7/30 Daniel Clem 
>>>
>>>> Everyone needs to submit "Tips” to OMG Ubuntu and any other site that
>>>> would be interested. Especially if they have already covered an article
>>>> about the Edge. Because being announced to support Verizon and Sprint is a
>>>> BIG development that will gather mass interest.
>>>>
>>>> We need to really hit hard on that this will be the most Network
>>>> Versatile device ever built by anyone, much less an independent company.
>>>>
>>>> "Николай Шатохин"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The rate of collection of money has slowed :(
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/7/30 John Kim 
>>>>>
>>>>>> Farewell to 3G is more than welcome. Glad Ubuntu edge will be a 4G
>>>>>> phone!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daniel Clem 이 씀:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No Problem, I bout fell over when I read it! :-) we really need to
>>>>>>> spread the word about this as there are probably ALOT of people that 
>>>>>>> are on
>>>>>>> Verizon or Sprint that looked, seen it was most likely was GSM and moved
>>>>>>> on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OMG Ububtu needs to cover this with a BIG article and include at
>>>>>>> least one if not multiple source stating Verizon will completely switch 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> LTE. More recent the better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Josh Leverette  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's astonishing. I thought it would be about 2016 before LTE
>>>>>>>> would be used for voice and texting, but apparently Verizon is moving
>>>>>>>> things along quite rapidly:
>>>>>>>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57591213-94/verizon-says-first-lte-only-phones-to-arrive-in-late-2014/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That says late 2014. This is a short production run of an ultra
>>>>>>>> advanced product. A few months early is less than surprising. So yes, 
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> sounds like it will work on Verizon. I apologize for being wrong 
>>>>>>>> earlier, I
>>>>>>>> had no idea that they would roll this out.
>>>>>>>> On Jul 29, 2013 7:05 PM, "Daniel Clem"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NEW UPDATE!!! The Indiegogo page now states specifically states
>>>>>>>>> the Edge will work with "LTE and GSM networks, including Verizon and
>>>>>>>>> Sprint” !!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Taking it exactly as it reads, that means it will not work on CDMA
>>>>>>>>> 3G. But once Verizon's LTE spreads to rural areas, the both voice and 
>>>>>>>>> data
>>>>>>>>> will most likely switch to all LTE and phase out CDMA over a few years
>>>>>>>>> until all the (at that point) 3G legacy phones are no longer uses.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do you guys think??
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Daniel Clem  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I deleted the more relevant mail already, so sorry for being out
>>>>>>>>>> of order. But we have a GSM phone and account from a pay as you go 
>>>>>>>>>> company
>>>>>>>>>> called "Tracfone”. Is this Sim card compatible with?? If so I will
>>>>>>>>>> definitely pledge one I 

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Moto X Porting

[Josh Leverette]

We don't actually know if it will be unlocked. Traditionally, Motorola
phones have been very tightly locked. If it is unlocked, someone will
surely create a port for it. Canonical is only officially supporting Nexus
4, Nexus 7, and Nexus 10, insofar as I'm aware, but they created a tutorial
to help advanced users port Ubuntu touch to new devices, and there is an
activity community doing it for devices.
On Aug 1, 2013 6:46 AM, "Greg W"  wrote:

> Will Ubuntu-Touch work on the upcoming Moto X from Google since it will be
> unlocked Nexus-like device? Or would it have to be officially ported before
> users will have any luck running Ubuntu-Touch on the device?
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:51:49 +0200
> > From: daniel.holb...@ubuntu.com
> > To: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> > Subject: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Touch Porting clinic today
> >
> > Hello everybody,
> >
> > Ubuntu Touch has been ported to LOTS of devices...
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Moto X Porting

[Josh Leverette]

The Motorola Droid Mini will be an excellent piece of hardware when it
becomes available for purchase, and is about the size of an iPhone and
manages to cram a bigger screen into that same size body. Whether it is
locked or unlocked will determine how easy it is to run Ubuntu touch on it.
The HTC One mini is another option, but I wasn't impressed by reports about
its battery life. The Samsung Galaxy S4 mini is there as an option, but I
can't bring myself to recommend Samsung anything. Most of the smaller
options are budget phones that aren't very good. Motorola is one of the
only exceptions to this, which is respectable. The HTC First, if you can
still get one, was a fantastic piece of hardware once you turned off
Facebook Home. The device felt kinda like an iPhone in the hand, ran
smoothly, and had an extremely comfortable design in general.
On Aug 1, 2013 6:55 AM, "Greg W"  wrote:

> I've decided not to buy the Nexus 4 for numerous reasons (no LTE, too
> wide, etc). So I'm looking at what other hardware (if any) options exist
> for running Ubuntu-Touch in October. I really, strongly prefer smaller
> hardware that is iPhone-5 size, especially a width of about 60mm.
>
> Please do tell if you have any suggestions. Thanks.
>
> --
> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 06:48:34 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Moto X Porting
> From: coder...@gmail.com
> To: mttbrns...@outlook.com
> CC: daniel.holb...@ubuntu.com; ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>
> We don't actually know if it will be unlocked. Traditionally, Motorola
> phones have been very tightly locked. If it is unlocked, someone will
> surely create a port for it. Canonical is only officially supporting Nexus
> 4, Nexus 7, and Nexus 10, insofar as I'm aware, but they created a tutorial
> to help advanced users port Ubuntu touch to new devices, and there is an
> activity community doing it for devices.
> On Aug 1, 2013 6:46 AM, "Greg W"  wrote:
>
> Will Ubuntu-Touch work on the upcoming Moto X from Google since it will be
> unlocked Nexus-like device? Or would it have to be officially ported before
> users will have any luck running Ubuntu-Touch on the device?
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 10:51:49 +0200
> > From: daniel.holb...@ubuntu.com
> > To: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> > Subject: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Touch Porting clinic today
> >
> > Hello everybody,
> >
> > Ubuntu Touch has been ported to LOTS of devices...
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (constructive criticism/advice on Canonical's approach)

[Josh Leverette]

No, you missed the point entirely. This is a "halo device." Whether it
sells a single one is entirely irrelevant. Its purpose is not to sell in
large quantities, and it isn't meant for people who are short on cash. This
is a device meant for people who want the very best and have the money to
get it.

And I will also say that it's rather insulting to suggest FOSS people do
not have much money. People don't use FOSS because they're poor. They use
it because it's better. Large swaths of the world pirate Windows because
they disagree about the superiority of FOSS. They don't have the money to
buy Windows, but they still use it. Lack of money is not a defining
attribute if the FOSS community by any means.

There will be dedicated Ubuntu phone hardware hitting the market next year,
from a variety of manufacturers. Convince one of them to make a device you
like. There are other fantastic designs besides the iPhone. The iPhone 5 is
an excellently designed piece of hardware, don't get me wrong, but it's not
alone.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Aug 4, 2013 11:28 AM, "Greg W"  wrote:

> I didn't miss the point (Canonical is making an erroneous assumption about
> the market--let me explain). I am aware of all the Ubuntu "supported
> models" available on the market. But frankly, I don't like any of them.
>
> The Edge design is unlike any of the Android phones (AKA supported models)
> on the market. So I think it is Canonical that is missing the point by
> assuming the Edge doesn't offer anything more than convergence over an
> "Android container." My argument is that it does to such an extent that
> people will buy it over current "Android container" offerings.
>
> The only physical shell (size/container/design) I really like that is on
> the mobile phone market today is the iPhone 5, and it cannot run Ubuntu. My
> primary hardware criticism with the iPhone 5 is that it does not have
> stereo speakers. The Edge does have stereo speakers and has similar design
> parameters to the iPhone 5: roughly the same size, shape, similar speaker
> placement, button arrangement, etc.
>
> So as the market stands today I am faced with this dilemma: do I want to
> buy the hardware-container I prefer or the software I prefer? With the
> Ubuntu Edge Phone as an option, I could buy both the hardware-container I
> prefer & the software I prefer.
>
> Mobile Phones are different than Laptops/Desktop. You carry them around
> with you all day in a pocket. And the
> shape/weight/thickness/shell-arrangement all become important
> considerations that aren't as important for Laptops/Desktops. I love open
> source, but I do not like Android, and I do not like any of the
> hardware-containers Android offers.
>
> --
> From: joerlend.schins...@ubuntu.com
> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 17:55:01 +0200
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (constructive criticism/advice on
> Canonical's approach)
> To: mttbrns...@outlook.com
> CC: estela...@hotmail.com; ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>
> You seem to have missed the point entirely. If you want an Ubuntu Phone,
> then there are phones already available on the market. Supported models
> now, are LG Nexux 4 and Samsung Nexus Galaxy. But there are many more
> unofficial ports.
>
> The reason for the Ubuntu Edge was never to win the market or anything
> like that. Canonical isn't a hardware company. The whole point was to
> create a phone that was much more powerful than any phone that could
> realistically be launched as a commercial product. It is supposed to be a
> means to try out _future_ hardware and to push all boundaries. Even a very
> low-spec smart-phone that you describe, would have to be much more
> expensive than comparable models on the market, simply because of the low
> number of devices that could be sold.
>
> If what you want is for Canonical to become a hardware company and compete
> with Samsung and Apple, then I don't think that's realistic. It's much
> better to attract existing manufacturers who are already in the hardware
> game.
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

lower end device = more affordable = more buyers = larger volume = entering
the hardware market

On top of that, they'd then be offering two separate devices, with two
separate manufacturing chains, with much greater costs on their end that
they'd have to recoup.

I want this project to succeed, believe me, but manufacturing two separate
devices would just put Shuttleworth in the hole. It sounds like a good
idea, but it wouldn't help this project financially, regardless of how
appealing the idea is to you.


On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Omar B.  wrote:

> >You're missing the point, Canonical expressed they are not planning to
> enter the hardware market. Planning a low end device to raise money for a
> high end device is exactly that.
>
> Offering the same device with a little less features or optimizations
> does't equal entering the hardware market.
>
> Sometimes you need to adapt to the new data coming in and compromise some
> of your pre-conceived notions in order to make a campaign successful. It
> wouldn't be the first time , in fact everyday hundreds of campaigns think
> they have everything laid out "perfectly" and then find out along the way
> some of their flaws / mistakes.
>
> This is Agile at is best.
>
> The worst you can do is use the hardcoded "waterfall method" for a
> crowdfunding campaign.
>
> So if that's the case we can officially forget as of today about this
> campaign since with the current structure and perks is not going to happen.
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ubuntu Edge (the Ubuntu handset)

[Josh Leverette]

Yes. Shuttleworth has even said that the *entire* purpose of this campaign
is to judge if there's a market for *super high end* phones. Adding a mid
range phone just to make this campaign succeed does not measure the market
appeal of the superphones, and it doesn't make manufacturing those
superphones any more affordable (quantity is important, if you can't meet
the quantity, the price is prohibitive).

If it succeeds, there will be more of these campaigns. If it fails... there
will probably never be another from Canonical.

Look at it as motivation to convince your friends to each buy one. This *
needs* to succeed, but adding a lower end phone is neither helpful nor an
option. The manufacturing costs would be absurd.


On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Zisu Andrei  wrote:

> Sometimes you need to adapt to the new data coming in and compromise some
>> of your pre-conceived notions in order to make a campaign successful
>
>
> From what I understand about this campaign, it's more of a "what if"
> rathern than a "must succeed".
>
> Zisu Andrei
>
>
> On 5 August 2013 17:03, Omar B.  wrote:
>
>  >You're missing the point, Canonical expressed they are not planning to
>> enter the hardware market. Planning a low end device to raise money for a
>> high end device is exactly that.
>>
>> Offering the same device with a little less features or optimizations
>> does't equal entering the hardware market.
>>
>> Sometimes you need to adapt to the new data coming in and compromise some
>> of your pre-conceived notions in order to make a campaign successful. It
>> wouldn't be the first time , in fact everyday hundreds of campaigns think
>> they have everything laid out "perfectly" and then find out along the way
>> some of their flaws / mistakes.
>>
>> This is Agile at is best.
>>
>> The worst you can do is use the hardcoded "waterfall method" for a
>> crowdfunding campaign.
>>
>> So if that's the case we can officially forget as of today about this
>> campaign since with the current structure and perks is not going to happen.
>>
>>
> Zisu Andrei
>
>
> On 5 August 2013 17:03, Omar B.  wrote:
>
>> >You're missing the point, Canonical expressed they are not planning to
>> enter the hardware market. Planning a low end device to raise money for a
>> high end device is exactly that.
>>
>> Offering the same device with a little less features or optimizations
>> does't equal entering the hardware market.
>>
>> Sometimes you need to adapt to the new data coming in and compromise some
>> of your pre-conceived notions in order to make a campaign successful. It
>> wouldn't be the first time , in fact everyday hundreds of campaigns think
>> they have everything laid out "perfectly" and then find out along the way
>> some of their flaws / mistakes.
>>
>> This is Agile at is best.
>>
>> The worst you can do is use the hardcoded "waterfall method" for a
>> crowdfunding campaign.
>>
>> So if that's the case we can officially forget as of today about this
>> campaign since with the current structure and perks is not going to happen.
>>
>>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Is Ubuntu Giving Up On Ubuntu Touch

[Josh Leverette]

Or, possibly, just possibly, the team is super busy finishing the product
that will actually ship to customers, rather than spending time answering
questions a dozen times over. That's my interpretation, at least.
On Aug 12, 2013 6:51 AM, "Abimanyu G"  wrote:

> I have been waiting for Android and IOS alternative for a very long time.
> At last ubuntu came up with ubuntu touch and it looks very very promising
> (except for Mir DS you should have gone with Wayland). Porting guide was
> very good starting point but all of sudden you released flipped images and
> all the existing docs become useless now we don't have a good starting
> point or any kind of help. Many people asking question about porting in
> this mailing list are not answered. pull together guys if ubuntu fails then
> we are stuck with Android for at least next 5 years.
>
> --
> Mailing list: 
> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-**phone
> Post to : 
> ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.**net
> Unsubscribe : 
> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-**phone
> More help   : 
> https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelp
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

[Ubuntu-phone] Call notification design

[Josh Leverette]

I recently watched this demo[0] of the new notification OSD, and I have some 
concerns about how not-prioritized a phone call is in the current design. This 
was the comment I left on the Google+ thread about this video.

"I don't know... I feel like the incoming phone call needs to take over the 
screen fully and completely, in much the same way as happens with iOS and  
Android. A phone call is too important for a small notification, and placing 
notifications at the top of the screen places them in the least optimal 
position for quick response. I can easily reach all around my 4.65" Galaxy 
Nexus's screen, but the top is the least convenient place to reach right before 
trying to put it up to my head to answer a call, I believe. Especially with 
such small buttons.

The aesthetics are coming along nicely though, so congratulations on that, and 
for normal notifications that should be fine."

Essentially, since the driving purpose behind a phone is to make and receive 
calls, I feel like we should give ultimate priority to incoming phone calls. If 
a user misses a phone call because of an easy-to-miss or 
difficult-to-quickly-accept phone notification, then the device has, 
effectively, failed at its intended purpose. Smartphones have expanded the 
vision of what the device is able to do, but real time communication is still 
not something to be diminished, is it?

These are just my thoughts of course, and I'd love to hear opinions from people 
who are more involved in the project than I am.

[0] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQMIf1cOyHc

-- 
Sincerely,
Josh-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Call notification design

[Josh Leverette]

My concern with the difficulty is in the size of the target. There will be
a large vertical travel to reach the accept button, and only a small
vertical region that can be hit. It is also adjacent to a reject button, so
that might be problematic. I think Android's solution to this is the best,
with a slider that once grabbed can be moved in the desired direction.
Haptic feedback also lets you know when you've grabbed it successfully. As
far as doing something more important, maps is perhaps the only thing that
I can think of that would supercede this. It's at most a 30 second
interruption to whatever you're doing if you let it ring through, but the
interruption can be much shorter if responded to appropriately. For an
activity which has such a small response window, it seems like it would be
important enough to interrupt the screen.

Maybe make both styles an option? Or perhaps my concerns are completely
unfounded. I'm not the expert here by any means, so do whatever is
necessary. I'm just voicing an opinion.


On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Matthew Fischer <
matthew.fisc...@canonical.com> wrote:

> I'm actually okay with this design. I personally find it annoying when a
> call takes over my screen, especially when I'm doing something more
> important, using maps, for example. And over the past few years it has
> become more clear to me that the primary purpose of my "phone" is no longer
> for making phone calls. I spend far more time using email, web, maps, and
> SMS.
>
> I do of course hope that your concern about "difficult to quickly accept"
> is unfounded, there are occasionally some calls that I really don't want to
> miss, but I think that the notification is there long enough to catch it.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 7:24 PM, Josh Leverette  wrote:
>
>> I recently watched this demo[0] of the new notification OSD, and I have
>> some concerns about how not-prioritized a phone call is in the current
>> design. This was the comment I left on the Google+ thread about this video.
>>
>> "I don't know... I feel like the incoming phone call needs to take over
>> the screen fully and completely, in much the same way as happens with iOS
>> and  Android. A phone call is too important for a small notification, and
>> placing notifications at the top of the screen places them in the least
>> optimal position for quick response. I can easily reach all around my 4.65"
>> Galaxy Nexus's screen, but the top is the least convenient place to reach
>> right before trying to put it up to my head to answer a call, I believe.
>> Especially with such small buttons.
>>
>> The aesthetics are coming along nicely though, so congratulations on
>> that, and for normal notifications that should be fine."
>>
>> Essentially, since the driving purpose behind a phone is to make and
>> receive calls, I feel like we should give ultimate priority to incoming
>> phone calls. If a user misses a phone call because of an easy-to-miss or
>> difficult-to-quickly-accept phone notification, then the device has,
>> effectively, failed at its intended purpose. Smartphones have expanded the
>> vision of what the device is able to do, but real time communication is
>> still not something to be diminished, is it?
>>
>> These are just my thoughts of course, and I'd love to hear opinions from
>> people who are more involved in the project than I am.
>>
>> [0] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQMIf1cOyHc
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Call notification design

[Josh Leverette]

I would agree with this as an excellent solution.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 7, 2013 2:14 PM, "Matthew Fischer" 
wrote:

> Actually that's perfect. If we wake the phone for the call like we do in
> powerd, then fullscreen would be great, otherwise, do the notification!
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Sergio Schvezov <
> sergio.schve...@canonical.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Matthew Fischer <
>> matthew.fisc...@canonical.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm actually okay with this design. I personally find it annoying when a
>>> call takes over my screen, especially when I'm doing something more
>>> important, using maps, for example. And over the past few years it has
>>> become more clear to me that the primary purpose of my "phone" is no longer
>>> for making phone calls. I spend far more time using email, web, maps, and
>>> SMS.
>>>
>>> I do of course hope that your concern about "difficult to quickly
>>> accept" is unfounded, there are occasionally some calls that I really don't
>>> want to miss, but I think that the notification is there long enough to
>>> catch it.
>>>
>>
>> I do find that if I'm doing something the notification is great, but if
>> the phone was in my pocket (locked), taking over the screen and making it
>> actionable through a swipe would be nice as I struggle to take the phone
>> out of my pocket and try not to drop it :-)
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Call notification design

[Josh Leverette]

Perhaps we could make an API out of it? I'm sure 3rd party VOIP apps (like
Skype and others) would appreciate being able to use the same call inbound
user interface that automatically switches between lock screen and standard
notification based on power state.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 7, 2013 4:07 PM, "Rasmus Eneman"  wrote:

> I have to join the choir. When I'm actively using the phone hitting that
> button shouldn't be a problem, but when I rushing it up from my pocket it
> would be.
>
>
> 2013/6/7 Sergio Schvezov 
>
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Matthew Fischer <
>> matthew.fisc...@canonical.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm actually okay with this design. I personally find it annoying when a
>>> call takes over my screen, especially when I'm doing something more
>>> important, using maps, for example. And over the past few years it has
>>> become more clear to me that the primary purpose of my "phone" is no longer
>>> for making phone calls. I spend far more time using email, web, maps, and
>>> SMS.
>>>
>>> I do of course hope that your concern about "difficult to quickly
>>> accept" is unfounded, there are occasionally some calls that I really don't
>>> want to miss, but I think that the notification is there long enough to
>>> catch it.
>>>
>>
>> I do find that if I'm doing something the notification is great, but if
>> the phone was in my pocket (locked), taking over the screen and making it
>> actionable through a swipe would be nice as I struggle to take the phone
>> out of my pocket and try not to drop it :-)
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rasmus Eneman
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

[Ubuntu-phone] Card style multitasking

[Josh Leverette]

With our current multitasking system, swiping from the right switches to
the previous application.

This is good.

When we swipe marginally from the left, it brings up the dock. Swiping all
the way to the right returns us home (specifically, to the apps page). What
if swiping marginally from the right switched to the previous one, but
swiping fully from the right brought us to the a card style app switcher
similar to what webOS and now iOS 7 have implemented? It seems like an
elegant extension of swiping from the left, to assume that swipe distance
on the right similarly impacts the effect. A short swipe from the right
would allow you to quickly switch to the previous app as well, so not
impacting functionality.

I know this might be considered redundant, but I still thought it was worth
mentioning. You are free to discard this idea fully.

-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

I would like there to be such a gesture, I'm just not convinced there's an
appropriate one since the left edge of the screen is occupied. My
suggestion is we consider that swiping from left to right anywhere not on
the screen edge could act as a back gesture in most applications.

I caution strongly against all of these actions though. there are too many
gestures coming about. if we give up one of the left edge gestures, we
could comfortably do this, but there is no other reasonable way I can think
of.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 12, 2013 5:25 AM, "Simon"  wrote:

> We could also think about using shaking for going back.
> This would be doable with just one hand,
> and wouldn't conflict with other (and future) gestures which are
> touch-based.
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

let's stick with pinch zooming our way back out if we absolutely must. I'd
recommend just redesigning the title bar element to have a back button.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 12, 2013 6:12 AM, "Josh Leverette"  wrote:

> I would like there to be such a gesture, I'm just not convinced there's an
> appropriate one since the left edge of the screen is occupied. My
> suggestion is we consider that swiping from left to right anywhere not on
> the screen edge could act as a back gesture in most applications.
>
> I caution strongly against all of these actions though. there are too many
> gestures coming about. if we give up one of the left edge gestures, we
> could comfortably do this, but there is no other reasonable way I can think
> of.
>
> Sincerely,
> Josh
> On Jun 12, 2013 5:25 AM, "Simon"  wrote:
>
>> We could also think about using shaking for going back.
>> This would be doable with just one hand,
>> and wouldn't conflict with other (and future) gestures which are
>> touch-based.
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

actually, at this point, I really don't know the solution. I think the
Design team should give it some thought and get back to us afterwards.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 12, 2013 6:15 AM, "Josh Leverette"  wrote:

> let's stick with pinch zooming our way back out if we absolutely must. I'd
> recommend just redesigning the title bar element to have a back button.
>
> Sincerely,
> Josh
> On Jun 12, 2013 6:12 AM, "Josh Leverette"  wrote:
>
>> I would like there to be such a gesture, I'm just not convinced there's
>> an appropriate one since the left edge of the screen is occupied. My
>> suggestion is we consider that swiping from left to right anywhere not on
>> the screen edge could act as a back gesture in most applications.
>>
>> I caution strongly against all of these actions though. there are too
>> many gestures coming about. if we give up one of the left edge gestures, we
>> could comfortably do this, but there is no other reasonable way I can think
>> of.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>> On Jun 12, 2013 5:25 AM, "Simon"  wrote:
>>
>>> We could also think about using shaking for going back.
>>> This would be doable with just one hand,
>>> and wouldn't conflict with other (and future) gestures which are
>>> touch-based.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

Ok, I've got a balanced solution. On Android, with Google Maps you can do
something I have heard called "Pin to Zoom", wherein you double tap and
then slide. After you begin to slide, it zooms just like you're pinching to
zoom, but with one finger.

We need a pin to exit gesture. Double tap anywhere on the screen, (tap,
lift, tap and hold) then slide to the right. This will prevent accidental
gestures, and will literally work anywhere on the screen, even the very
edges we so desperately seek to avoid messing with.

Please consider this my preferred contribution to this discussion.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 12, 2013 6:17 AM, "Lou Greenwood"  wrote:

>  I agree with Sid that any potential gesture should be possible with only
> one digit and preferably the thumb.
>
> I'm personally not keen on either the shake or pinch ideas. I think
> shaking is a cumbersome and ugly gesture on a phone (and especially
> tablet). After using iOS and having shake as the only method to invoke
> undo, I'm tired of feeling that I could fling my phone across the room
> accidentally!
> Pinching requires more than one digit, and in my opinion, interrupts the
> users flow (I realise I suggested it earlier, but on 2nd thought, it's not
> good UX).
>
> Taking the gesture idea further, how about the idea of tracing a circle
> (anti clockwise, one finger/thumb), in the centre of the screen, mimicking
> a large circular dial/knob as a method of navigating back. The welcome
> screen, circle device would fit this idea nicely. Each 'click' of this the
> gesture/dial would represent navigating back one step. It's essentially a
> software version of the click wheel. I can see the novelty value of this,
> but is it good UX?
>
> My main concerns with this idea would be:
>
> (1) Why didn't Apple implement it on iOS, does it make for a bad
> experience?
> (2) Dealing with increments - some dials may require, for example,
> just 2 steps, others 5. This would make the dial always un-familiar and
> play havoc with muscle memory.
>
> Aside from the original gesture I suggested in my email (tracing a anti
> clockwise semi circle/back shape). I wonder if the toolbar should be
> visible by default on 'page stack' pages. I think that the page context
> requires it. I can only envision 2 types of scenario where page stack is
> used:
>
> (1) Navigation to a destination (drilling down through lists).
> (2) Destination (information of some kind that requires an action,
> whether adding, editing or navigating away via the 'Back' button).
>
> If this is actually the case and I'm not blind to other scenarios, I see
> that enforcing a chrome-less, full screen view without a toolbar would be
> detrimental to the experience. I feel that if the toolbar was visible on
> page stack sub pages, it would still be in-line with the spirit of using
> full screen to enable the best possible user experience (where appropriate).
>
> Taking it one step further, the toolbar could be shown by default on page
> stack sub pages, but hidden when the use begins scrolling, this idea comes
> from Evernote on iPhone when editing a note.
>
> However, I must concede that a visible toolbar wouldn't be anywhere near
> as attractive and clean as the current hidden-by-default toolbar!
>
> Lou
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12/06/13 11:22, Sid Payton wrote:
>
> I really like the idea having a gesture for going back since the back
> button is hidden which is the biggest drawback ubuntu touch has in my eyes.
> But it shoudn't be something you need two or more fingers for. I want to
> be able to use my phone With just one hand.
> So a gesture Wirth is easy to do with the thumb comes to mind.
> Something like a fast stroke To the right and back to the left. Or to fast
> Strokes To the left. Something that doesn't interfear with the other
> gestures. Or like a triangle witjout the button. Just two strokes.
> Am 12.06.2013 11:41 schrieb "Clément Gimenez" :
>
>>  Hello all,
>>
>>  First contribution as well for me today ;)
>>
>>  I agree with Lou's ideas : a nice gesture for going back would have a
>> real added value. Of course in addition to the "traditionnal" back button,
>> which then will be most of the time hidden in the menus for the old folks...
>>
>>  I'd go for the multitouch gesture : Pinching to come back to an upper
>> level seems to me quite natural. It's not new, as we have the same features
>> in the Android and Win8 homescreens that can be pinched to give an overview
>> on them.
>>
>>  For the particular case of the pictures app', we'll have problems to
>> combine it with zooming/unzooming the picture we are looking at.
>>
>>  That's why i'd say a 3 (or more)-fingers pinch would be necessary. This
>> would look like grabbing the screen with the whole hand, as we'd take away
>> the upper paper of a stack.
>>
>>  Congrats for the work done so far, and good luck with the upcomming
>> tasks !
>>
>>  Clément
>>
>> > Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 10:11:51 +0100
>> > From: lougreenw...@me.com

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

I'd be fine with a title bar button, but I don't know how it could be
done... the current design isn't conducive to that. But, Pin to Exit is the
way to go, in my opinion. Does anyone else have feelings for or against Pin
to Exit, as described in my previous email?

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 12, 2013 6:38 AM, "Scott May"  wrote:

>  I haven't considered the full screen situation.  Sorry about that.
> Still thinking...
>
>  Till later,
> Scott.
> __
> Scott May.
> sc...@smartdata.com.au
>
> Mobile  0417 195 018
>
>
>
> On 12/06/13 21:33, Scott May wrote:
>
> Yeah I'm a "me too" on the concern that the "back" button is too hidden
> given it's frequent use.  Perhaps we won't need "back" so much in this new
> environment?
>
> In any case, with gestures we need to be very mindful of how apps are
> going to operate.  We don't want to offer a gesture that might look
> anything like something you might do in reasonable use of some app that
> doesn't exist on this platform yet.  Think about about what you do on the
> screen when say, using a map, drawing a picture, moving a piece in a game
> etc, etc.  I think gestures coming in from the edge are fairly safe, but
> the main screen area is for the app...
>
> Having said that, I'd like a back button|gesture|mind control interface
> somewhere.  The title bar can get crowded, and needs that clean style, but
> so far that seems like fair game.
>
> Now that I think about it, the Android apps "OMG Ubuntu!" and  "Feedly"
> both use a nice tight little "<" like symbol in the top left title bar to
> navigate back.  It's small but visually clean, consistent and works.  Yeah,
> that's my preference.
>
> Till later,
> Scott.
> __
> Scott May.
> sc...@smartdata.com.au
>
> Mobile  0417 195 018
>
>
>
> On 12/06/13 21:15, Josh Leverette wrote:
>
> let's stick with pinch zooming our way back out if we absolutely must. I'd
> recommend just redesigning the title bar element to have a back button.
>
> Sincerely,
> Josh
> On Jun 12, 2013 6:12 AM, "Josh Leverette"  wrote:
>
>> I would like there to be such a gesture, I'm just not convinced there's
>> an appropriate one since the left edge of the screen is occupied. My
>> suggestion is we consider that swiping from left to right anywhere not on
>> the screen edge could act as a back gesture in most applications.
>>
>> I caution strongly against all of these actions though. there are too
>> many gestures coming about. if we give up one of the left edge gestures, we
>> could comfortably do this, but there is no other reasonable way I can think
>> of.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>> On Jun 12, 2013 5:25 AM, "Simon"  wrote:
>>
>>> We could also think about using shaking for going back.
>>> This would be doable with just one hand,
>>> and wouldn't conflict with other (and future) gestures which are
>>> touch-based.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

Simon, This would introduce design complexity by the way that the user may
accidentally activate this gesture or fail to activate this gesture and
have negative consequences. It needs to be something that does not interact
with the current gestures, unless we're willing to drop an existing gesture
function to be replaced with this one. The beauty of Pin to Exit is that it
requires a short tap, then a tap which is held, then moving the finger in a
given direction. It would interfere with nothing existing, and probably
nothing in the future either, and it would allow for an aesthetically
pleasing removal of the top layer as the finger moves, gripping it. This is
as opposed to acting after the gesture is complete, in an irreversible
method.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 12, 2013 6:51 AM, "Petar Koretić"  wrote:

> "Last one for a while I promise.  What about a pinch from both the left
> and right sides - together, like I'm closing up this page 'cause I'm done
> with it"
>
> If I may this is more of "close this app gesture", however I'm not sure
> when somebody really needs a back button since swiping from right gives
> last app and swiping from left will get you to home screen?
>
> "nice tight little "<" like symbol in the top left title bar to navigate
> back.  It's small but visually clean, consistent and works."
> On the other hand this sounds great (some kind of back button i titlebar)
> and it can be seen in other OSes.
>
> using more than on hand to do it really doesn't seem practical,
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

If the button is there, it may as well be visible.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 12, 2013 6:54 AM,  wrote:

> Why not just consider a small translucent floating button?
>
> All these gestures, pinch, shake etc will not cut it in active use and
> especially on tablets.
>
> The button may stay hidden and be invoked upon tapping a particular
> section on the screen.
> ,
> Sent from my android device.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Simon 
> To: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Sent: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 12:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

What's wrong with the Pin to Exit gesture? It will not be accidentally
discovered by old people in all but the most unlikely scenarios, the
toolbar already provides a back option for them, and power users would
benefit from having a faster and perhaps more elegant way to go back. It's
quick and does not require any finger acrobatics, and does not interfere
with any existing gesture.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 12, 2013 7:06 AM, "Sam Bull"  wrote:

> On Wed, 2013-06-12 at 10:11 +0100, Lou Greenwood wrote:
> > I imagine that the page stack will be a very common view, having to
> > swipe up and then stretch and tap, just to go back, could become
> > fatiguing. Perhaps once I get my hands on a working set-up my concerns
> > will be unfounded.
>
> Just an observation about the design, but it seems the design is to
> avoid needing the back button most of the time. I don't find myself
> using the back button very often because of this. For example, the
> people lens expands the view when you select a contact, and has a button
> to collapse it again. Another example, in the phone app the header is
> used to switch between different pages (phone, contacts and messages).
>
> The design seems to be avoiding using a back button on the most frequent
> scenarios. I'd recommend trying out the phone first, and then see how
> often you actually use the back button.
>
> Also, I feel that the short swipe and tap to go back is easier and
> faster than just about all the gesture suggestions so far.
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

[Ubuntu-phone] Redesign the deep stack to be a horizontally scrolled region

[Josh Leverette]

Our recent discussion about a back gesture similar to iOS gave me an
intriguing idea. What if each level of a deep stack simply added a page
horizontally, and you could freely scroll between all levels of the deep
stack as if it were just a wide webpage?

- there would be no need for a back button or gesture
- it would be spatially consistent and require no mental energy from anyone
- aesthetically pleasing

We could have the UI 'snap' to each level of the deep stack after momentum
drops far enough, but users could easily move from level to level or all
the way to the top. On tablets, they might be able to see all levels of the
deep stack at once.

This is just one of those ideas that's hopefully just crazy enough to work,
but not too crazy as to interfere with practicality :)

Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

None of Ubuntu's gestures are discoverable, that's just the hard reality of
it. The only way this is ever going to work is if the team puts a
first-boot tutorial that walks you through each of the gestures and makes
you practice them (with a skip option for people who already know what
they're doing). I just assumed this first-boot tutorial was already being
developed? When reviewers get their hands on this OS, they will pound it
for being unintuitive to the average Joe unless there is such a tutorial,
and they'll be right.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 12, 2013 7:24 AM, "Fola Dawodu"  wrote:

>  I doubt if anyone can discover pin to exit gesture on their own. meaning
> its not exactly intuitive.
>
> But the again, if i may recall the design paradigm for Touch actually does
> not envisage this problem as a general thing (i'm pretty sure i'm wrong
> though)
>
> meaning that this really should be an issue to be solved by each app.
> (probably with defined guidelines)
>
> Its not right to assume that each and every app will be compatible with
> whatever solution proposed here.
>
> The base OS itself does not appear to require any going back (at lease
> from the gestures and flow design).
>
>
>
> On 12/06/2013 13:19, Josh Leverette wrote:
>
> What's wrong with the Pin to Exit gesture? It will not be accidentally
> discovered by old people in all but the most unlikely scenarios, the
> toolbar already provides a back option for them, and power users would
> benefit from having a faster and perhaps more elegant way to go back. It's
> quick and does not require any finger acrobatics, and does not interfere
> with any existing gesture.
>
> Sincerely,
> Josh
> On Jun 12, 2013 7:06 AM, "Sam Bull"  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2013-06-12 at 10:11 +0100, Lou Greenwood wrote:
>> > I imagine that the page stack will be a very common view, having to
>> > swipe up and then stretch and tap, just to go back, could become
>> > fatiguing. Perhaps once I get my hands on a working set-up my concerns
>> > will be unfounded.
>>
>> Just an observation about the design, but it seems the design is to
>> avoid needing the back button most of the time. I don't find myself
>> using the back button very often because of this. For example, the
>> people lens expands the view when you select a contact, and has a button
>> to collapse it again. Another example, in the phone app the header is
>> used to switch between different pages (phone, contacts and messages).
>>
>> The design seems to be avoiding using a back button on the most frequent
>> scenarios. I'd recommend trying out the phone first, and then see how
>> often you actually use the back button.
>>
>> Also, I feel that the short swipe and tap to go back is easier and
>> faster than just about all the gesture suggestions so far.
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

[Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Redesign the deep stack to be a horizontally scrolled region

[Josh Leverette]

And, forgot to label the title.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 12, 2013 7:24 AM, "Josh Leverette"  wrote:

> Our recent discussion about a back gesture similar to iOS gave me an
> intriguing idea. What if each level of a deep stack simply added a page
> horizontally, and you could freely scroll between all levels of the deep
> stack as if it were just a wide webpage?
>
> - there would be no need for a back button or gesture
> - it would be spatially consistent and require no mental energy from anyone
> - aesthetically pleasing
>
> We could have the UI 'snap' to each level of the deep stack after momentum
> drops far enough, but users could easily move from level to level or all
> the way to the top. On tablets, they might be able to see all levels of the
> deep stack at once.
>
> This is just one of those ideas that's hopefully just crazy enough to
> work, but not too crazy as to interfere with practicality :)
>
> Sincerely,
> Josh
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Redesign the deep stack to be a horizontally scrolled region

[Josh Leverette]

Both yours and Scott's concerns are valid. I don't know the answers, but I
figured this could be an enjoyable and intuitive solution. If someone is
intrigued by it enough, maybe they'll present the solutions here? there are
definitely problems with this idea.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 12, 2013 7:44 AM, "Lou Greenwood"  wrote:

>  I think Windows phone uses something similar?
>
> My concerns would be:
>
> (1) Swiping sideways would be too close to the current gesture for
> changing apps.
> (2) How best to indicate that there are currently no pages to the
> right (drilling down), until an action is performed on the current page,
> but if the user moves left (drills up), pages to the right (down) still
> exist? It's hard to explain, in email, but I can see it being difficult to
> nail.
>
> Also the current design and animation (multitasking via RtL swipe)
> indicate that the left edge of the app/screen is it's boundary and nothing
> exists beyond it. It's subtle, but it may affect the mental models people
> build when animations show something different to their expectations.
>
>
>
> On 12/06/13 13:30, Josh Leverette wrote:
>
> And, forgot to label the title.
>
> Sincerely,
> Josh
> On Jun 12, 2013 7:24 AM, "Josh Leverette"  wrote:
>
>> Our recent discussion about a back gesture similar to iOS gave me an
>> intriguing idea. What if each level of a deep stack simply added a page
>> horizontally, and you could freely scroll between all levels of the deep
>> stack as if it were just a wide webpage?
>>
>> - there would be no need for a back button or gesture
>> - it would be spatially consistent and require no mental energy from
>> anyone
>> - aesthetically pleasing
>>
>> We could have the UI 'snap' to each level of the deep stack after
>> momentum drops far enough, but users could easily move from level to level
>> or all the way to the top. On tablets, they might be able to see all levels
>> of the deep stack at once.
>>
>> This is just one of those ideas that's hopefully just crazy enough to
>> work, but not too crazy as to interfere with practicality :)
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

This sounds reasonable to me.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 12, 2013 7:52 AM, "Sam Bull"  wrote:

> On Wed, 2013-06-12 at 13:37 +0100, Lou Greenwood wrote:
> > See the following link for examples of the back button in the core OS.
> >
> > http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/building-blocks/page-stack
>
> I've been running the system on my phone for nearly 4 months, I know
> where the back button is. I also know how often I use the back button,
> and I don't think it's as often as everybody else thinks it is.
>
> The visible by default thing might be good in something like system
> settings, assuming it uses a design where it enters deeper pages like on
> other OSs. But, it shouldn't a system-wide thing, just for particular
> apps where you can expect to use the back button frequently. And, I'm
> pretty sure this can already be implemented by the apps.
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

Just curious, but what part of the update made your opinion change? I think
this issue is resolved for now though.


On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 8:08 AM, Scott May  wrote:

>  To be honest I've not updated my Nexus to a recent image (until just
> now!) since we're approaching the "dog fooding" stage.  Anyway I did and my
> opinion may have changed.
>
> I think "Expansion" is probably something we're not so familiar with as
> programmers and user interface designers, but will be very useful and
> eliminate the need for "back" in certain circumstances.
> http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/building-blocks/expansion
>
> Also, the example shown in
> http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/building-blocks/page-stack - stage 2 - the
> app could easily have a "back" symbol to the left of Julia's head, no
> problem - ie the app could supply an obvious "back" when appropriate.
>
> Also, glad I updated, it's come a long way recently!
>
>
> Now I can't sleep at all, I think I'll watch some Justified :)
>
>
>
> Till later,
> Scott.
> __
> Scott May.
> sc...@smartdata.com.au
>
> Mobile  0417 195 018
>
>
>
> On 12/06/13 22:51, Sam Bull wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2013-06-12 at 13:37 +0100, Lou Greenwood wrote:
>
>  See the following link for examples of the back button in the core OS.
> http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/building-blocks/page-stack
>
>  I've been running the system on my phone for nearly 4 months, I know
> where the back button is. I also know how often I use the back button,
> and I don't think it's as often as everybody else thinks it is.
>
> The visible by default thing might be good in something like system
> settings, assuming it uses a design where it enters deeper pages like on
> other OSs. But, it shouldn't a system-wide thing, just for particular
> apps where you can expect to use the back button frequently. And, I'm
> pretty sure this can already be implemented by the apps.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Left handed usage

[Josh Leverette]

I'm not left handed, but as gestures are coming equally from all sides of
the display I don't think there is any special inconvenience for left
handed people versus right handed people. A quick test shows I don't seem
to have any trouble controlling the regions of the screen that Ubuntu touch
uses, whether with my left or right hand. What issues are you concerned
about, specifically? and how is it right hand oriented?

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 13, 2013 9:12 AM, "Zisu Andrei"  wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> This issue was raised on the omgubuntu article about the latest preview.
>
> I haven't seen this tackled by the design team. What is the plan for left
> handed usage?
>
> The current design is pretty much right hand oriented.
>
> Zisu Andrei
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Left handed usage

[Josh Leverette]

>From my limited testing, it looks like the left handed people of the world
will actually have it easier than the rest of us, as far as the launcher is
concerned. It sounds to me like this is yet another excuse people are
providing for Canonical to allow the launcher to be moved around on the
screen to different locations. Reaching all the way across the superphones
of the world is more effort than simply reaching an inch or so. Have you
actually tried Ubuntu touch on a device?

I'm not left handed, and I'm not encountering any issue going through the
motions. Someone who has spent their whole life being left handed would
surely be more adept than I am... but I am not part of the design team or
Canonical, so I don't have any say in the matter. If they decide there
needs to be a left handed mode (which no other mobile OS offers), then they
will surely tell the devs to implement it.


On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Zisu Andrei  wrote:

> I think the launcher is going to be a bit difficult to reach with your
> thumb.
>
> Zisu Andrei
>
>
> On 13 June 2013 15:15, Josh Leverette  wrote:
>
>> I'm not left handed, but as gestures are coming equally from all sides of
>> the display I don't think there is any special inconvenience for left
>> handed people versus right handed people. A quick test shows I don't seem
>> to have any trouble controlling the regions of the screen that Ubuntu touch
>> uses, whether with my left or right hand. What issues are you concerned
>> about, specifically? and how is it right hand oriented?
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>> On Jun 13, 2013 9:12 AM, "Zisu Andrei"  wrote:
>>
>>>  Hey guys,
>>>
>>> This issue was raised on the omgubuntu article about the latest preview.
>>>
>>> I haven't seen this tackled by the design team. What is the plan for
>>> left handed usage?
>>>
>>> The current design is pretty much right hand oriented.
>>>
>>> Zisu Andrei
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Left handed usage

[Josh Leverette]

If there is not an issue with left handed usage, then it is an excuse. It
is not an assumption or implication. Based on other responses to this
thread, I do not seem to be alone in finding left handed usage to be no
more difficult than right handed usage. Right handed usage has its own
problems. I am definitely talking about one handed thumb usage.

It is good to voice your concerns, but I'm still not convinced this is an
issue. Can you link to this discussion thread on OmgUbuntu? It would be
good see.


On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Zisu Andrei  wrote:

> It sounds to me like this is yet another excuse people are providing for
>> Canonical to allow the launcher to be moved around on the screen to
>> different locations
>
>
> Please stop implying and assuming things.
>
> Are you sure you are talking about one-handed thumb usage? Moving my thumb
> over the entire height of the screen on the left side is not the most
> pleasant...
>
> Zisu Andrei
>
>
> On 13 June 2013 15:33, Rasmus Eneman  wrote:
>
>> Personaly I think it's equally simple with both ands and I'm right handed
>> however for the phone I can use any hand whithout problem
>> On Jun 13, 2013 4:27 PM, "Zisu Andrei"  wrote:
>>
>>> I think the launcher is going to be a bit difficult to reach with your
>>> thumb.
>>>
>>> Zisu Andrei
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13 June 2013 15:15, Josh Leverette  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not left handed, but as gestures are coming equally from all sides
>>>> of the display I don't think there is any special inconvenience for left
>>>> handed people versus right handed people. A quick test shows I don't seem
>>>> to have any trouble controlling the regions of the screen that Ubuntu touch
>>>> uses, whether with my left or right hand. What issues are you concerned
>>>> about, specifically? and how is it right hand oriented?
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Josh
>>>> On Jun 13, 2013 9:12 AM, "Zisu Andrei"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Hey guys,
>>>>>
>>>>> This issue was raised on the omgubuntu article about the latest
>>>>> preview.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't seen this tackled by the design team. What is the plan for
>>>>> left handed usage?
>>>>>
>>>>> The current design is pretty much right hand oriented.
>>>>>
>>>>> Zisu Andrei
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Left handed usage

[Josh Leverette]

I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to move it to a different side, I'm
just saying if that's what you want, then present it that way without
excuse or false pretense, and if that's what you want, it should be in a
thread of its own. I personally feel like it would be easy to implement now
that everything is in QML, and it certainly should be an option for people
who want to install something like UbuntuTweak. I cannot say whether it
should be included in the default install, and whether Canonical should
allocate their limited resources to implementing that feature. It is not my
place to say about those things.


On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Gustav Bylund  wrote:

> I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to move the launcher around, I
> shouldn't even need to provide an excuse. Maybe I just like it better on
> the right side?
> On 13 Jun 2013 16:38, "Zisu Andrei"  wrote:
>
>> It sounds to me like this is yet another excuse people are providing for
>>> Canonical to allow the launcher to be moved around on the screen to
>>> different locations
>>
>>
>> Please stop implying and assuming things.
>>
>> Are you sure you are talking about one-handed thumb usage? Moving my
>> thumb over the entire height of the screen on the left side is not the most
>> pleasant...
>>
>> Zisu Andrei
>>
>>
>> On 13 June 2013 15:33, Rasmus Eneman  wrote:
>>
>>> Personaly I think it's equally simple with both ands and I'm right
>>> handed however for the phone I can use any hand whithout problem
>>> On Jun 13, 2013 4:27 PM, "Zisu Andrei"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think the launcher is going to be a bit difficult to reach with your
>>>> thumb.
>>>>
>>>> Zisu Andrei
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 13 June 2013 15:15, Josh Leverette  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not left handed, but as gestures are coming equally from all sides
>>>>> of the display I don't think there is any special inconvenience for left
>>>>> handed people versus right handed people. A quick test shows I don't seem
>>>>> to have any trouble controlling the regions of the screen that Ubuntu 
>>>>> touch
>>>>> uses, whether with my left or right hand. What issues are you concerned
>>>>> about, specifically? and how is it right hand oriented?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Josh
>>>>> On Jun 13, 2013 9:12 AM, "Zisu Andrei"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hey guys,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This issue was raised on the omgubuntu article about the latest
>>>>>> preview.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't seen this tackled by the design team. What is the plan for
>>>>>> left handed usage?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The current design is pretty much right hand oriented.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Zisu Andrei
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Left handed usage

[Josh Leverette]

My thoughts.

Pros:

   - Would imply a level of customization rarely present in other mobile
   OSes
   - Could be used as a framework for allowing other forms of customization
   in the Settings app
   - Allows a person to use it how they feel is most comfortable
   - Probably good for community health as a whole
   - App switching metaphor would be improved, as "back" is generally
   considered to the left for many people, so going back from the left side
   makes perfect sense.

Cons:

   - Would make one Ubuntu phone inconsistent from the next (when borrowing
   friends' phones for whatever reason)
   - Diverting development resources from higher priority issues could have
   a negative impact on the release schedule.
   - Could create issues in the future, as any increase in functionality
   has a resulting burden in maintenance.

Obviously I'm in favor of this option being available to users, I just
don't want it done under the pretense that the current design is
ineffective for left handed users, when there seems to be little evidence
of this.


On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Simon  wrote:

> Could we please try to keep a good argumentation.
> The topic of this thread is:
> "Should we allow the user to switch the dash to the other side?"
>
> Please keep your thoughts (and language) appropriate to this topic.
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Left handed usage

[Josh Leverette]

I will note that the first email you quoted said that the issue he was
referring to did not depend on which thumb was being used. It was just an
issue with the current implementation.

For the second one, I'm still not sure why swiping from the right to the
left requires changing angle twice to complete the swipe, but I'll accept
that there must be an issue there.


On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Zisu Andrei  wrote:

> Obviously I'm in favor of this option being available to users, I just
>> don't want it done under the pretense that the current design is
>> ineffective for left handed users, when there seems to be little evidence
>> of this.
>
> Nah, I was literally talking about left handed users and nothing else.
>
> These emails pretty much sum it up:
>
>> I am left handed and it doesn't feel particularly hard to use left
>> handed.  There are difficulties such as the launcher being hard to reliably
>> pull onto the screen, and buttons in the corners of web pages triggering
>> the edge detection with my fat fingers, but they are not related to which
>> thumb i am
>
>
>  As a lefthander who has the galaxy nexus with Ubuntu Touch on it, I
>> can tell you the only thing I have any issues with is the swipe from
>> right to left to change between apps, the launcher is not a problem at
>> all.
>> The only issue with the swipe from right to left is the thumb needs to
>> change angle twice to complete the swipe this is much easier in the
>> right hand than the left. But not impossible just slightly more clunky.
>
>
> Zisu Andrei
>
>
> On 13 June 2013 16:14, Dave Morley  wrote:
>
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 13/06/13 15:47, Josh Leverette wrote:
>> > If there is not an issue with left handed usage, then it is an
>> > excuse. It is not an assumption or implication. Based on other
>> > responses to this thread, I do not seem to be alone in finding left
>> > handed usage to be no more difficult than right handed usage. Right
>> > handed usage has its own problems. I am definitely talking about
>> > one handed thumb usage.
>> >
>> > It is good to voice your concerns, but I'm still not convinced this
>> > is an issue. Can you link to this discussion thread on OmgUbuntu?
>> > It would be good see.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Zisu Andrei > > <mailto:matzi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > It sounds to me like this is yet another excuse people are
>> > providing for Canonical to allow the launcher to be moved around on
>> > the screen to different locations
>> >
>> >
>> > Please stop implying and assuming things.
>> >
>> > Are you sure you are talking about one-handed thumb usage? Moving
>> > my thumb over the entire height of the screen on the left side is
>> > not the most pleasant...
>> >
>> > Zisu Andrei
>> >
>> >
>> > On 13 June 2013 15:33, Rasmus Eneman > > <mailto:ras...@eneman.eu>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Personaly I think it's equally simple with both ands and I'm right
>> > handed however for the phone I can use any hand whithout problem
>> >
>> > On Jun 13, 2013 4:27 PM, "Zisu Andrei" > > <mailto:matzi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I think the launcher is going to be a bit difficult to reach with
>> > your thumb.
>> >
>> > Zisu Andrei
>> >
>> >
>> > On 13 June 2013 15:15, Josh Leverette > > <mailto:coder...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm not left handed, but as gestures are coming equally from all
>> > sides of the display I don't think there is any special
>> > inconvenience for left handed people versus right handed people. A
>> > quick test shows I don't seem to have any trouble controlling the
>> > regions of the screen that Ubuntu touch uses, whether with my left
>> > or right hand. What issues are you concerned about, specifically?
>> > and how is it right hand oriented?
>> >
>> > Sincerely, Josh
>> >
>> > On Jun 13, 2013 9:12 AM, "Zisu Andrei" > > <mailto:matzi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hey guys,
>> >
>> > This issue was raised on the omgubuntu article about the latest
>> > preview.
>> >
>> > I haven't seen this tackled by the design team. What is the plan
>> > for left handed usage?
>

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

Long swipe up reveals the HUD, as far as I know.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 13, 2013 4:34 PM, "Daniel Clem"  wrote:

> Non-dev comment:
> Revealing controls on scroll up would work if you want it to be same for
> all apps, as not all apps scroll. Such as the FTP server app I use for my
> Droid. Or video games that need a.menu for settings and saving games, but
> no scrolling at all.
>
> My personal opinion is this menu should hide by default but leave a very
> visible shadow over the bottom of the screen (ontop the app all the time)
> done in such a way to hint that something in hidden there.
>
> The whole system here is based on short and long swipes. If the user
> doesn't know to short swipe up for the menu, then they most likely don't
> yet know any of the other swipe actions either. A tutorial to teach the
> first user is all that is needed, then that user would teach their
> friends/family that use it. That.is the only ways ANYone learns Android,
> WebOS or any new system.
>
> Sidenote on back button actions. Short swipe up shows the menu, what does
> a long swipe up do? Could a long swipe up be use for "Back” action? I use
> the back button AL the time in every app, including the apps someone
> else mentioned weren't common for back actions. As a user I bounce from one
> part of an app to another using "back” because few if any apps are designed
> in such a way that any feature or area can quickly be reached by any other
> part. So backing out to a common are is what's needed most the time even if
> its only one level deep.
>
> What do you all think?
> Thank you and God Bless,
> Clem
>
> Lou Greenwood  wrote:
>>
>> My personal opinion is that it's possible to find a solution which works
>> for all situations, rather than creating fragmentation in the UI by letting
>> individual dev's make too many choices.
>>
>> 1. Use the developer’s toolkit
>>
>>
>> Here is our handy developer’s toolkit which contains all the essential
>> building blocks to
>>
>> help you get started! We use our building blocks to keep our apps
>> consistent, and so we
>>
>> don’t carry other platform’s UI elements or behaviours.
>>
>>
>> /\ http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/get-started/make-it-ubuntu
>>
>>
>> I've just uploaded a short clip of the Evernote app on iOS, the way it
>> handles the toolbar is beautifully intuitive and invisible.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX1xelZhkEU
>>
>>
>> Something like this Evernote example (default visible, hides on
>> scroll/interaction, reveals on scroll up), which is  _only_ implemented on
>> deep page stack pages would be my suggestion. As far as I can see from the
>> design spec, no other page types have this 'back' problem. See this link
>> for the various page types >
>> http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/global-patterns/navigation.
>>
>> Lou
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13 Jun 2013, at 18:18, Omar B.  wrote:
>>
>> Some apps don't have a problem with users going "back". For example the
>> *Friends* app shows both its Breadcrumbs and the bottom toolbar by default:
>>
>> http://youtu.be/Q566IGyVB0o?t=8m36s
>>
>> Apps should probably decide if they want to show these toolbars by
>> default (or when one goes deeper in the stack like others mentioned) if its
>> better for their users (and allow users to hide them if they want more
>> screen). I think this approach might be better than trying a "one fits all".
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 17:02:58 +0100
>> > From: m...@canonical.com
>> > To: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
>> > Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture
>> >
>> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> > Hash: SHA1
>> >
>> > Scott May wrote on 12/06/13 12:33:
>> > >
>> > > Yeah I'm a "me too" on the concern that the "back" button is too
>> > > hidden given it's frequent use. Perhaps we won't need "back" so
>> > > much in this new environment?
>> >
>> > The System Settings design uses deep page stacks -- for example, five
>> > levels deep when setting a background picture.
>> > 
>> >
>> > Discoverability of "Back" is my biggest concern with System Settings
>> > right now. In a couple of cases I've specified that the toolbar should
>> > be visible all the time: for example, the screen for choosing an area
>> > of the background picture. But that's only because the toolbar
>> > contains other buttons on those particular screens.
>> >
>> > > In any case, with gestures we need to be very mindful of how apps
>> > > are going to operate. We don't want to offer a gesture that might
>> > > look anything like something you might do in reasonable use of some
>> > > app that doesn't exist on this platform yet. Think about about
>> > > what you do on the screen when say, using a map, drawing a picture,
>> > > moving a piece in a game etc, etc. I think gestures coming in from
>> > > the edge are fairly safe, but the main screen area is for the
>> > > app...
>> > >
>> > > ...
>> >
>> > A gesture might be more effici

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

I'm not going to comment on everything in your post, but watch the first 20
seconds of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx2nMaBOHek

Notice how the settings are not on a different level in the page stack?
They're in a separate tab. The back button is not used here. This is how
many of the apps are being designed, and this is why the back button is not
of supreme importance. I'm also very surprised that you consider the iPad
to have been a mistake to give your dad. I know many grandparents who love
their iPads for the very reason that there is nothing they can do wrong
there, and settings virtually never need to be changed because there are so
few of them. It's far, far easier for the ones I know to use it than
Windows. I'm not saying your statement about your dad is incorrect, I just
find it very interesting. Is he most comfortable with Windows then? I'm
curious, but of course, this is a little off topic.


On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Daniel Clem  wrote:

> First sorry if i misunderstand somethings as i'm not a dev, but wish to
> give my feedback and opinions as best i can.
>
> I looked at the wiki just now, so now I understand the difference of the
> intended flat UI vs page stack UI. So perhaps Ubuntu Touch apps will be
> developed differently than Android apos. But the FTP I mentioned about I
> was just saying about how to reveal the bottom menu. Like I have 4 buttons
> on my Droid, menu, home, back, then search. And the menu was what I was
> referring to on FTP and games. I did watch the Evernote video you shared.
> If an app can not scroll up or sideways (any app that is simple and small
> or is a game), then reveal menu on scroll wouldn't work (in my opinion).
> And since almost every app would probably need a menu of some kind then you
> need the revealing to always be the same. Whereas the Evernote menu works
> differently than the rest of iOS creating inconsistency on the device.
>
> As for Back button perhaps I am not visualizing how apps will be laid out
> in this Flat, Deep, and Page Stack style of UI's, so please excuse my
> assumptions coming from Android. But I don't think its a good idea to have
> the "Back” action only available in the menu tool bar on the bottom. 2
> reasons being.
> -being hidden by default, it slows the UI flow because I go into settings
> of some apps a lot to change things, try it, then go back change again, try
> it again, ect over and over when playing with new apps. And having to
> reveal the hidden menu just to get to a back button seems really cumbersome
> and slow. The Back action (in my opinion) should be done with a gesture. So
> backing out of settings or other places (SMS, Emails, Contacts Info, Music
> Library, ect ) is just as fact as pressing the back button on my Droid.
>
> Backing out of iOS settings, menus and other things has always been very
> unintuitive for me. My dad has a ipad (Present for him, big mistake :-/ )
> and he always has trouble and asks me for help. So please don't take iOS as
> a great example as its my least enjoyable OS.
>
> God Bless
>
> Clem
>
>
>
> Lou Greenwood  wrote:
>>
>> Excuse me if I'm misunderstadning you, but an FTP app wouldn't require a
>> back button as it isn't a page stack, same goes for (most) games, they use
>> custom UI's (think Angry Birds etc).
>>
>> http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/global-patterns/navigation
>>
>> From what I understand, Back is used in a very specific set of
>> circumstances, these are _only_ page stack views beyond the 1st page. As an
>> example, opening the settings app for the first time wouldn't have a back
>> button, but navigating to 'settings > general > option 3 > bla' would
>> require a back button for each layer of the hierarchy.
>>
>> To my eyes, the issue just isn't one of discoverability, or familiarity,
>> but also one of adding un-necessary gestures, movements and actions to
>> reveal a tool bar _every time_ a user needs to go navigate back. The issue
>> is form over function in an attempt at creating a chromeless fullscreen
>> layout. Hiding the back button in all instances only serves to add
>> complexity in an attempt to create a superficial minimalism.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong, I'm vocal about this because I think the OS is a
>> beautiful piece of design, not because I want to pick holes. I don't think
>> that hiding a critical navigation device serves the purpose of the vision -
>> "...give a
>> very natural feel to touch screen interactions and *require minimal
>> effort from the use.*"
>>
>> http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/get-started/design-vision
>>
>>
>> Again, take a look at this video example Evernote I uploaded, it's a
>> beautiful method for dealing with toolbars, but I suggest it _only_ in the
>> areas in deep page stack views -
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX1xelZhkEU
>>
>>
>> Warmest regards
>>
>> Lou
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13 Jun 2013, at 22:33, Daniel Clem  wrote:
>>
>> Non-dev comment:
>> Revealing controls on scroll up would work if you want it t

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

I fully agree with the second approach. While I believe that deep stack
apps will not be very common on Ubuntu touch, it would be nice in the rare
case that there is one for the bar to stay up while leaving the page stack.
It honestly doesn't matter much whether the bar is there as you're
descending into the stack, but once the user starts leaving, let them leave
in a hurry. I don't care much for the Evernote style design, personally,
but this is one that I can agree with. The most programmatic way to express
this is that pressing the back button does not cause the bottom bar to
drop, period. Once the user has decided they've gone back far enough or
reached the top (where there is no more back button) then they can feel
free to drop the bottom bar at their leisure.

In point of fact, are we dropping the bottom bar in response to button
presses? It's been too long since I've used Ubuntu touch, and I can't
recall this one detail. If we are dropping the bottom bar in response to
button presses, maybe we should just stop that habit in general. Let the
user call it up, and let the user dismiss it.


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Alex Tyler  wrote:

> I've read most of these mails, but not all so may have missed one or two.
>
> There absolutely needs to be a better method of approach. There are
> applications made that will be 4-5 pages deep that the user will want
> to back out of. Swiping from the bottom and pressing back when 8 pages
> deep is not an acceptable solution.
>
> Swiping the page away (ala Blackberry 10/iOS7) would likely be fine
> and not interfere with the OS level swipes. I have created
> applications that utilize these two paradigms together, and don't
> recall confusing myself or my users (one of them being my significant
> other, and she's the perfect test case).
>
> If however, this solution is deemed unacceptable, I do have another:
>
> If the application is x amount of levels deep and the user has pressed
> back and reverted to a previous page that is still not the root, then
> the toolbar stays open until the user interacts with content or backs
> out enough to be on the root page. I'm not a massive fan of this
> approach, but it is an alternative.
>
> I can get a demo of this up either today or tomorrow, depending on time.
>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 1:19 AM, Josh Leverette 
> wrote:
> > I'm not going to comment on everything in your post, but watch the first
> 20
> > seconds of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx2nMaBOHek
> >
> > Notice how the settings are not on a different level in the page stack?
> > They're in a separate tab. The back button is not used here. This is how
> > many of the apps are being designed, and this is why the back button is
> not
> > of supreme importance. I'm also very surprised that you consider the
> iPad to
> > have been a mistake to give your dad. I know many grandparents who love
> > their iPads for the very reason that there is nothing they can do wrong
> > there, and settings virtually never need to be changed because there are
> so
> > few of them. It's far, far easier for the ones I know to use it than
> > Windows. I'm not saying your statement about your dad is incorrect, I
> just
> > find it very interesting. Is he most comfortable with Windows then? I'm
> > curious, but of course, this is a little off topic.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Daniel Clem 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> First sorry if i misunderstand somethings as i'm not a dev, but wish to
> >> give my feedback and opinions as best i can.
> >>
> >> I looked at the wiki just now, so now I understand the difference of the
> >> intended flat UI vs page stack UI. So perhaps Ubuntu Touch apps will be
> >> developed differently than Android apos. But the FTP I mentioned about
> I was
> >> just saying about how to reveal the bottom menu. Like I have 4 buttons
> on my
> >> Droid, menu, home, back, then search. And the menu was what I was
> referring
> >> to on FTP and games. I did watch the Evernote video you shared. If an
> app
> >> can not scroll up or sideways (any app that is simple and small or is a
> >> game), then reveal menu on scroll wouldn't work (in my opinion). And
> since
> >> almost every app would probably need a menu of some kind then you need
> the
> >> revealing to always be the same. Whereas the Evernote menu works
> differently
> >> than the rest of iOS creating inconsistency on the device.
> >>
> >> As for Back button perhaps I am not visualizing how apps will be laid

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture

[Josh Leverette]

I agree, I didn't want to be the only one who keeps dissenting, so I
waited, but the right edge swipe should not behave like Android's.
Furthermore, it would be highly unintuitive for it to go back pages in the
app and then suddenly switch to going to previous apps. Once it reaches the
first most previous app, it would then have to go backwards through all
pages of that app before we could proceed to the next app. That behavior
would do nothing for users. The other thing to consider is that if we're
going back page by page, that would be destroying each page instance. Does
going back once more destroy the whole app instance? The metaphor would be
broken and shattered on the ground.

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 15, 2013 8:29 PM, "Robert Park"  wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 5:17 AM, Rasmus Eneman  wrote:
>
>> Personally I have been thinking about how it would be to rework the right
>> edge swipe. If it first backed out to the topp level and then start
>> circulating apps, a bit like Androids back button. For me that's the most
>> natural behavior I think.
>>
> Personally I think the Android back button is a bit of a disaster. What if
> I've been surfing the web for half an hour? I have to go back-back-back
> through a thousand pages before I can back out of the app?
>
> It has other issues too -- in the SMS app, I can never seem to correctly
> identify when the back button will take me back to the list of contacts, or
> back out of the app -- it never seems to do what I expect and it's often
> frustrating.
>
> We definitely need a way to distinguish between "back within this app" and
> "back to the previous app". A solution to that problem would put us ahead
> of Android in terms of usability.
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] manual for ubuntu touch/mobile?

[Josh Leverette]

This product isn't ready for customers, and there is no manual. You cannot
delete items, and there are many known issues. For now, developing apps is
about the only thing that can be done. In a few more months, these other
items you have requested will surely be available, but this is a developer
preview for the very reason that they are not available.

The important things to know for operating it are as follows. Swiping from
the left edge of the screen a short distance will present you with a dock
of applications you can quickly launch. If you swipe all the way from the
left edge of the screen to the right edge of the screen, it will take you
back to the page on the home screen dedicated to applications. If you swipe
from the right edge of the screen to the left, it will take you to the
previously used application. If you swipe down from the top, then the icon
on which you swiped down is the one for which you will be presented
configuration settings for. All configuration (including WiFi) happens by
swiping from the top of the screen for now. If you swipe down from the top
on an area which does not have an icon, you will be presented with
notifications. Inside applications, swiping up from the bottom will present
you with actions, as the idea of Ubuntu touch is to present content with as
much of the screen as possible.

The best way to learn this is to watch the videos that have been posted on
YouTube that show Ubuntu touch. This is very much a "work in progress".

Sincerely,
Josh
On Jun 16, 2013 8:40 AM, "Wim de Vries"  wrote:

> Hi,
> Now that I have ubuntu touch/mobile installed on my nexus
> I am quite lost on how it works. Before deploying apps i want to know how
> it works for custom users.
> Simple questions like how to scan for networks, how to delete items, etc.
> Is there a manual or user documentation? Couldn't find it on the ubuntu
> site or googling.
> Also known issues would be fine as well.
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: 
> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-**phone
> Post to : 
> ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.**net
> Unsubscribe : 
> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-**phone
> More help   : 
> https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelp
>
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] opengl?

[Josh Leverette]

Hmm. If this is discouraged, then I would strongly encourage Canonical to
provide an OpenGL game app example in the developer documentation... one
showing "the right way" to do it. Having good games is the biggest obstacle
to Ubuntu touch's adoption that Canonical has absolutely no direct control
over, but providing a sample would go a long way towards encouraging
development in that area. (all of the aforementioned is, of course, my
personal opinion.)


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Michael Zanetti <
michael.zane...@canonical.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Monday 17 June 2013 17:18:32 Wim de Vries wrote:
> > Is openGL supported (via QGLWidget)?
>
>
> I guess it is, altough I discourage the use of QWidget on Ubuntu Touch.
>
> Anyways, yes, you can use C++/Qt OpenGL code. If you intent to just create
> a
> fullscreen View and paint everything yourself, I guess even QGLWidget is a
> valid option.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Michael
>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>



-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ubuntu-phone] opengl?

[Josh Leverette]

Ah, ok. I misunderstood. This advice does make sense.


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Michael Zanetti <
michael.zane...@canonical.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> yes, we are working on example code. As I said, if you intend to write a
> game
> with one fullscreen view, painting everything yourself in there, a
> QGLWidget
> might be a solution altough I think using just a QWindow would be better
> suited.
>
> What I meant with discouraged, is to use QWidget in terms of QPushButton,
> QListView etc. Talking about a QGLWidget I assumed that you want to embed
> it
> somewhere into another QWidget based app.
>
> This example shows how to use Qt openGL without a QGLWidget (using a
> QWindow).
> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtgui/openglwindow.html
>
> Also, all of those examples should be applicable to our platform (some of
> those are QGLWidget based too):
> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtopengl/examples-widgets-opengl.html
>
> Anyways, if you know how to use QGLWidget, I'm sure you understand how I
> mean
> the discouraging or QWidget usage on mobile platforms.
>
> Br,
> Michael
>
>
> On Monday 17 June 2013 10:44:00 Josh Leverette wrote:
> > Hmm. If this is discouraged, then I would strongly encourage Canonical to
> > provide an OpenGL game app example in the developer documentation... one
> > showing "the right way" to do it. Having good games is the biggest
> obstacle
> > to Ubuntu touch's adoption that Canonical has absolutely no direct
> control
> > over, but providing a sample would go a long way towards encouraging
> > development in that area. (all of the aforementioned is, of course, my
> > personal opinion.)
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Michael Zanetti <
> >
> > michael.zane...@canonical.com> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On Monday 17 June 2013 17:18:32 Wim de Vries wrote:
> > > > Is openGL supported (via QGLWidget)?
> > >
> > > I guess it is, altough I discourage the use of QWidget on Ubuntu Touch.
> > >
> > > Anyways, yes, you can use C++/Qt OpenGL code. If you intent to just
> create
> > > a
> > > fullscreen View and paint everything yourself, I guess even QGLWidget
> is a
> > > valid option.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps,
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> > > Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
> > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> > > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>



-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

[Ubuntu-phone] [design] Welcome screen suggestions

[Josh Leverette]

Ok, I'll be bluntly honest about this. I've lately begun to wonder if the
Welcome screen at current is even worthwhile. From a pragmatic perspective,
it provides only *useless information* to the user. Or, *Information which
would never be acted on, under normal circumstances.* The number of tweets,
emails, etc. that you've produced throughout whatever time period will have
zero impact on anything you do on a daily basis, if ever.

If the user wants to adorn their welcome screen with aesthetically pleasing
artwork, they should just have the option of throwing an awesome wallpaper
up. From a design standpoint, I'd also wonder if it might look better to
just place the time and date in a small, elegant, and unobtrusive font on
the bottom left hand corner of the welcome screen and leave the rest of it
clean and empty to showcase the user's chosen artwork... that is, if the
user has elected not to show any of the active information I'm about to
mention next.

Would it be possible for the welcome screen to provide a quick view of the
weather (maybe *make *the welcome screen wallpaper a(n animated) graphic
depiction of the weather, and perhaps annotate some data about the weather
as well) and/or give an interactive view of unread notifications.

In all cases (including keeping the current welcome screen), what if
swiping up from the bottom of the welcome screen took the user directly
into the camera, since it isn't being used for anything else on the welcome
screen? Facebook phone took a severe beating from the media for having no
quick access to the camera.

Just a few, casual suggestions for your perusal.

-- 
Sincerely,
Josh
-- 
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp