Nothing. Omar asked a question about a corner case. I answered him, and then you started saying things that made no sense as a response to what I was saying. My response applied only to that one device in question. On Jul 20, 2013 5:50 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <ras...@eneman.eu> wrote:
> Of course the desktop interface will support multiple windows. No one have > ever said otherwise? > The desktop experience will most probably be very similar to Unity7 except > for the improved > indicators in Unity8. > > Canonical have already started that Ubuntu will be one code base, > regardless of the device > it's run on. Already today you can dynamically switch between mobile and > tablet interface in > Unity8 when the desktop interface is ready you will be able to switch with > that too. All > devices will of cource run appropriate interface. > > I can't really understand what you want to change? > > > 2013/7/21 Josh Leverette <coder...@gmail.com> > >> I'm not talking about putting this on a 7" tablet. You haven't been >> listening to me. >> >> There are three form factors. >> -Desktop >> -Tablet >> -Phone >> >> We know what the tablet and phone Unity8 interfaces look like. We do not >> know what Unity8 for desktop will look like. There *will* be a version of >> it for desktop. That is not a question. The 20" tablet that is being >> discussed should run the desktop version of the interface because it is too >> large for the tablet interface to scale properly to it. The desktop >> interface is the appropriate choice regardless of whether the tablet is >> docked in to the AIO dock or the tablet is freestanding. It doesn't matter. >> It should always run the desktop interface because of how large it is. The >> desktop interface is different only by the fact that it has windows in it. >> I'm not changing anything there. It will be able to run the tablet apps. It >> will be able to run the phone apps. It will be able to run the legacy apps. >> A 7" tablet will of course run the tablet interface, not the desktop >> interface with a windowing interface. >> >> I never suggested that we change the tablet interface to use windows or >> be a desktop interface. I suggested that this special case use the desktop >> interface exclusively, instead of the tablet interface. >> On Jul 20, 2013 5:34 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <ras...@eneman.eu> wrote: >> >>> All of those things are stuff you can do on the desktop interface. >>> Why wold it be so much better to do that on the Tablet interface? >>> >>> >-you can still maximize them to run them fullscreen, if you like >>> It isn't about that. It is about that you fundamentally would like to >>> change how the current interface works. You cant just add in multi >>> window. >>> You need a way to maximize/minimize windows, usually you do that >>> using buttons on a tool bar. By adding a tool bar that is always visible >>> you loose valuable screen space on a 7" tablet. >>> And also you would have to teach users how the multi windows >>> features work. >>> >>> What I'm saying is that if you want the desktop interface you should >>> use the desktop interface, you shouldn't make the tablet interface >>> become the desktop interface. You can run the touch apps in the >>> desktop interface aswell. >>> >>> >>> 2013/7/21 Josh Leverette <coder...@gmail.com> >>> >>>> Interacting with it as a tablet does not limit you to running one >>>> application as a time. LibreOffice and Eclipse may not be optimized for >>>> touch, but you could still run all of the touch optimized apps. Running >>>> them in windows you can move around would not be something to fear. It >>>> would be useful. If you *want* to run a nontouch optimized app, that's your >>>> problem. Having window management *will* happen regardless, for traditional >>>> desktops. Letting you use it on a 20" tablet would just be a good decision. >>>> >>>> -Desktop mode means you can run several touch optimized apps side by >>>> side >>>> -you optionally can run legacy, real-work applications like Eclipse >>>> -you can still maximize them to run them fullscreen, if you like >>>> >>>> Any suffering would be self inflicted. There is no downside, and an OSK >>>> can be used for anything. On my android tablet I have a keyboard designed >>>> for programming, and I've written code swiftly. A larger screen would be >>>> even better. I've written documents that are dozens of pages long on a >>>> touchscreen. To someone who is practiced with them, it's a breeze. Don't >>>> insult touchscreen interfaces just because you're not efficient with them. >>>> On Jul 20, 2013 5:12 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <ras...@eneman.eu> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >Why would that be useful? >>>>> Because you are still interacting with it like a tablet, with touch. >>>>> Advanced interfaces like LibreOffice or Eclipse wouldn't work >>>>> not because of the screen size but because of the input type. >>>>> And if you wants to use desktop applications, why wouldn't >>>>> you just use the desktop interface? The applications wouldn't >>>>> be easier to interact with just because the interface of the >>>>> desktop manager were fitted for touch. >>>>> >>>>> OSK is worthless for programming or writing documents, even if the >>>>> screen is 20". >>>>> >>>>> You can't just add in multi-windows and totally change how you would >>>>> interact with the only argument being "It's BIG!". The input is still >>>>> as >>>>> equally limited and broken for desktop interfaces. >>>>> >>>>> And no, in isn't Windows 8 all over again. Windows 8 is putting a >>>>> tablet >>>>> interface on the desktop. Unity is putting a tablet interface on a >>>>> tablet and >>>>> a desktop interface on a desktop. >>>>> >>>>> Without writing usecases for massive changes you are doing changes >>>>> for the sake of changing stuff, probably to the worse. Before you go in >>>>> and totally change how one interface would work you need to have a >>>>> very clear plan of what you are doing and why you are doing that. >>>>> The latter part of that is why use cases would need to be written. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2013/7/20 Josh Leverette <coder...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>>> On a large display, there is very rarely enough content to use the >>>>>> whole screen. If you're using a 20" tablet, it's not for pleasure. It >>>>>> needs >>>>>> to use multiple windows. This applies to the keyboard as well. The >>>>>> keyboard >>>>>> would be too large to type on if you just stretched it out to a 20" >>>>>> screen. >>>>>> Why do you need to write a use case? This use case is plainly obvious. It >>>>>> would be wasteful to only allow one application on the screen at a time >>>>>> for >>>>>> large screens. Even the side stage isn't enough. It would be Windows 8 >>>>>> all >>>>>> over again to do that. Besides, we need to support the legacy >>>>>> applications >>>>>> like LibreOffice, and Eclipse. >>>>>> >>>>>> Why do you want a single application to fill the whole screen at all >>>>>> times? Why would that be useful? >>>>>> On Jul 20, 2013 4:50 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <ras...@eneman.eu> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The thing is, when you are using a tablet inteface. How would you >>>>>>> intercat with multiple windows? >>>>>>> We shouldn't add features just for the sake of features, if so we >>>>>>> would still be using the terminal >>>>>>> only as it's the only (yet?) invented interface that can do >>>>>>> anything. We don't want that >>>>>>> we want an interface that simple and easy to navigate if it looks >>>>>>> good that would be a bonus. >>>>>>> To do this we have to say, "this feature should be in because it's >>>>>>> needed and works". Not just >>>>>>> "this feature looks cool, lets add it". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Could someone write some good use cases for a multi window/more >>>>>>> advanced side stage? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2013/7/20 Josh Leverette <coder...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I still don't understand. Why do you want to go into tablet mode, >>>>>>>> since that only means everything is fullscreen, as far as we know. You >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> still maximize things and then they're essentially fullscreen, if >>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>> what you want, but realistically.. why would you on a large screen? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2013 1:49 PM, "Omar B." <estela...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> hmm, I believe we need to think more about the applications and >>>>>>>>> connected peripherals, than the desktop itself. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On the ASUS Transformer AiO, when the screen gets detached, it >>>>>>>>> surely becomes a big Tablet. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, I assume it will go from desktop mode to tablet mode (with >>>>>>>>> probably a possibility of manual override). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In such big tablet form factors I see the usefulness of >>>>>>>>> multi-window, re-sizing or a more feature-rich side stage being >>>>>>>>> introduced >>>>>>>>> to the touch environment. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 23:30:11 -0500 >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ? >>>>>>>>> From: coder...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> To: estela...@hotmail.com >>>>>>>>> CC: ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What is the difference? We really don't know what unity 8 for the >>>>>>>>> desktop looks like. But, based on logical induction, the only >>>>>>>>> significant >>>>>>>>> difference is that you can move things around and resize them as >>>>>>>>> windows in >>>>>>>>> one, and they're all fullscreen in the other. You can still run the >>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>> apps in desktop mode as in tablet mode, but more applications might be >>>>>>>>> available to desktop mode. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This isn't Windows. Canonical is striving towards Unity. Microsoft >>>>>>>>> chose a divided approach, with clear separation between desktop and >>>>>>>>> tablet. >>>>>>>>> On Jul 19, 2013 11:16 PM, "Omar B." <estela...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >A 20" screen definitely qualifies for desktop mode. I don't think >>>>>>>>> it would be running tablet style at that point. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Then, I wonder what would be the case study for the ASUS >>>>>>>>> Transformer AiO. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just desktop mode? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hUPWgLXMBY >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.asus.com/AllinOne_PCs/ASUS_Transformer_AiO_P1801/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>>>>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>>>>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>>>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone >>>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Rasmus Eneman >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Rasmus Eneman >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rasmus Eneman >>> >> > > > -- > Rasmus Eneman >
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