[Ubuntu-manual] Introduction

[Paddy Landau]

Hello Ubuntu Manual Team,

I am new here.

It was suggested that I introduce myself to you and volunteer to help
with proof-reading and cleaning up articles.

I would like to help out.

If you have any articles that you would like me to proof-read for
grammar, spelling and readability, I will be happy to help.

If I am posting in the wrong place, or if there is somewhere else I
should be looking to find articles, please point me in the right direction.

About me:
My English is good; I am an able article-writer; and I have frequently
proof-read for colleagues (in a different profession).
I contribute regularly to the Ubuntu Forums, and get involved (to a much
smaller extent) in Brainstorm and a couple of other areas.
I usually use British English (I live in England), but if you require me
to use American English, let me know.

Regards

Paddy Landau
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] [Ubuntu Manual] Screenshots of the manual

[Paddy Landau]

On 10/06/12 20:36, John wrote:
> Many of the authors (if not all) followed the instructions, although
> some screens aren't ok.
> Here is the instructions in case you don't know: [1]
> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg02988.html


Those instructions would do well to be on the Wiki and in the
Style-Guide PDF.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] click-and-hold

[Paddy Landau]

Kevin, thank you for the distinctions.

An example of click-and-hold, then, would be the spray paint in GIMP.

The term "drag" has been in use at least since Windows 3.1 (probably
before even Windows was invented), which is several computer generations
and one human generation ago. I think everyone, even newbies, will
understand "drag".

It would be good to have "drag" in the Glossary, however, for those very
rare people who are using Ubuntu as their introduction to computers.

Therefore, my vote is to adopt Kevin's suggested use.

Paddy

On 11/06/12 19:01, Kevin Godby wrote:
> Hello.
>
> The GNOME Documentation Style Guide mentions both terms.
> <http://developer.gnome.org/gdp-style-guide/2.32/gdp-style-guide.html#gnome-glossary-user-actions>
>
> “Click-and-hold” means to press and hold the left mouse button on an
> item.  Example: “Click-and-hold the left mouse button to initiate the
> capture area.”
>
> “Drag” means to click a mouse button on an object, hold the mouse
> button, and move the mouse to move the object.  Example: “Drag the
> launcher to the panel.”  They also note that you should avoid using
> the term “drag and drop.”
>
> I would suggest using the term “click-and-hold” when
> clicking-and-holding itself causes something to happen (e.g., a menu
> to appear or more paint sprayed on the canvas) and using “drag” when
> you're actually dragging an item from one location to another
> location.
>
> Does that help any?  (If everyone is generally happy with that sort of
> distinction, I can add it to the style guide. If not, we can discuss
> it a bit more.)
>
> --Kevin
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Hannie Dumoleyn
>  wrote:
>> Hi Paddy,
>> That is a good question.
>> In the following examples:
>> =
>> To move a tab to a different location on the tab bar, drag it there using
>> your
>> mouse. Click-and-hold on the tab and drag the tab to a new place on the tab
>> bar.
>> To move a tab from one Firefox window to another already open win-
>> dow, click-and-hold on the tab and drag it to the tab bar on the other Fire-
>> fox window.
>> 
>> I think the click-and-hold is right, because it explains that you first have
>> to click on the tab and hold down the mouse button, then drag it to its
>> destination. Beginners do not always know that dragging means you have to
>> click-and-hold first.
>> I send this question and answer to the mailing list, because I want to know
>> what others think about this.
>> Hannie
>> P.s.: if you join our channel #ubuntu-manual every once in a while, you can
>> ask this kind of questions directly.
>>
>> Op 11-06-12 14:35, Paddy Landau schreef:
>>
>>
>>
>> A few times, I have seen the phrasing "click-and-hold" when talking about
>> dragging something.
>>
>> Shouldn't we use "drag" rather than "click-and-hold"? It is an old,
>> well-used phrase in Windows, Mac and Linux. It also applies to
>> touch-screens, where "click" does not make sense.
>>
>> In like fashion, I have tended to replace "click" with "select" where
>> appropriate.
>>
>> Paddy
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Ubuntu Manual available via software Center

[Paddy Landau]

On 14/06/12 17:37, John wrote:
> full circle magazine, and other magazines are available from software
> center.
>
> My thought is that in case we'll do the same, more people will read
> our manual.


I think it's an excellent idea.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] [Ubuntu Manual] Reader Feedback Form

[Paddy Landau]

John, I think you should also have a section for what worked well, so
that those ideas can be copied to the next manual.

Paddy

On 21/06/12 17:36, John wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> everything seems to go alright till now and if we'll continue so, the
> manual we'll be released in less than two week.
> This series seems to be successful and that would happen without you
> but let's speak about it at the end of the series.
>
> I think that it would beneficial for the future of the project to add
> the feedback from readers in the cycle of producing a manual
> (writting, editing/proofreading, check),
> in order to know our mistakes and improve every new manual.
>
> I've created a pad where you can add some useful questions that would
> be added to the form.
> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-ReaderFeedback
>
> I've little experience on feedback forms so your help is necessary.
>
> Thank you, have a wonderful day !
> --John
>
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Getting Started with Ubuntu 12.04 is now available!

[Paddy Landau]

On 30/06/12 21:05, Kevin Godby wrote:
> > Getting Started with Ubuntu 12.04 has been published!

Excellent.

Has this been noted on Ubuntu Forums?

Will it be noted in the forthcoming Weekly Ubuntu Newsletter (due Tuesday)?
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Reflection and review

[Paddy Landau]

> > Was this your first time contributing to the manual project? If so,
> how did you hear about the project?

Yes. I was asked to volunteer by another member of Ubuntu.

> > Why did you decide to get involved?

Ubuntu has saved me many metaphorical tears, needing so much less
maintenance than the usual alternative. As I am not a developer, this is
just one of the ways that I can "give back" to the project.

> > Did you have trouble getting started with the project? Were the
> other team members helpful enough?

No trouble getting started. The team members were plenty helpful,
especially Hannie, who took me under her wing.

> > How did you like your role (author, editor, translator, etc.) in
> this cycle?  Do you think you'd like to take on that same role again?

My role is limited due to health issues, and the one I was given was
perfect for my abilities.

> > Did you find it difficult to use any of the tools for our project
> (e.g., bzr, LaTeX)?

As you know, I am trying to be a champion for Gummi, because it gives
near-instant results on the screen, allowing an editor to instantly see
what has worked and what has not. But also, as you know, I have
struggled to find out how to get the Ubuntu-specific styles and tags
into Gummi.

I had a brief exchange with Gummi's developer, and apparently the next
version of Gummi will support external styles. However, I still have not
found who is in charge of Ubuntu's styles and tags in order to be able
to put them into Gummi! No one here seems to know.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Reflection and review

[Paddy Landau]

On 02/07/12 12:37, Philip Stubbs wrote:
> > Ok, I was intending to get involved. However, I did not like having
> to use TeX Live from outside of the repositories. It seems to me that
> it would be easier to be involved if the software requirements can be
> satisfied with what is available to a standard install.


Philip, speaking from my own personal experience only:

I also do not like to install items from outside the repositories.
However, sometimes I need to, and then I do so only when I trust the
source (e.g. GIMP and Audacity for the latest versions, and TrueCrypt,
which is not on the standard repositories). These all have their own
repositories.

In this case, the source is trustworthy, so I went ahead and followed
the (easy) instructions. As promised, it really did not interfere with
anything else, even though it was not a repository-installation.

I really would appreciate it being distributed as a .deb, however.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Reflection and review

[Paddy Landau]

On 02/07/12 11:50, Patrick Dickey wrote:
> > I would think (but by no means do I know) that if you're referring
> to the styles for the manual (the .tex styles and formats), then it
> would be Kevin now. As he's in charge of the manual. Or possibly
> Benjamin Humphrey, although he's not in charge of the project anymore.

Thanks for the information. As I do not know LaTeX (apart from the bit
of editing I've done in gedit for this manual), I cannot say exactly
what I'm referring to! But "the .tex styles and formats" sounds correct.

I need to speak to someone who (a) knows LaTeX; (b) knows how to amend
the tags and styles; and (c) knows specifically how this was done for
Ubuntu's manual.

> > For my own personal curiosity, can you make some type of tutorial on
> how to get started with gummi...

Until we're sure that we can actually make Gummi work, there's no point
on creating a tutorial. However, this will get you going.

 1. Add the Gummi PPA; either *ppa:gummi/gummi* for the stable version
 or
*ppa:gummi/unstable* for the latest
 (which,
apparently, is usually pretty stable). I recommend the latter,
because the spell-checker does not work on the stable version
.
 2. Install gummi , xetexlive-base ,
xetexlive-xetex , rubber , latexmk
, libgtkspell0 , and your required
language as myspell-[languagecode] (e.g. myspell-en-us
).
 3. Start Gummi. You will see an example to start with. I find Gummi
most useful when maximised, even on a wide-screen.
 4. The left-hand side is the editor, and the right-hand side shows the
finished version. It takes about a two-second pause (it won't update
while you are typing) to show updates on the right-hand side.
 5. Edit > Preferences > Compilation > Typesetter command > TeXLive with
XeTeX.
 6. Edit > Preferences > Miscellaneous > Spell check language > [choose
the required language].


Gummi has the usual editing functions and the ability to open and save
the files. This, to me, makes it ideal — or would, if I knew how to add
the Ubuntu tags and styles.

Gummi also has functions to hold full projects, "make" indexes and so
forth, but I believe that these would not be useful to this project
because of its shared nature (I could be wrong).

Read more about Gummi on its official website
 (nothing to do with Gummi
Bears!).

To edit an extract of the manual, Gummi requires some specific lines at
the start and end. At a minimum, this entails the following two lines at
the top:

\documentclass[11pt]{article}
\begin{document}

and the following line at the end:

\end{document}


You will notice that Gummi will show only an error on the right-hand
side when editing extracts from the Ubuntu manual, because of all the
tags that it does not recognise (e.g. /application, /keystroke).

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Reflection and review

[Paddy Landau]

> > Ubuntu 12.10 will have TeX Live 2012 in the normal repositories. For
> those of you using Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, you can use a backport PPA:
> >
> > https://launchpad.net/~texlive-backports/+archive/ppa
> >
> > Therefore, there won't be a need to use tlmgr next release if you
> don't want to.


I have added the PPA.

I presume the item to install is "texlive"?

Before I install from the repository, how do I uninstall the one that I
manually installed?

Paddy
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[Ubuntu-manual] Incorrect pictures on the web page

[Paddy Landau]

On the web page:

http://ubuntu-manual.org/

The lead images are still from "Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04".

That should be changed, surely?

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] description minimize

[Paddy Landau]

On 07/07/12 08:13, Hannie Dumoleyn wrote:
> Translating the glossary, I found the following description:
>
> ...
>
> What do you think?

Yes, you are correct.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] panel or bar?

[Paddy Landau]

On 07/07/12 08:38, Hannie Dumoleyn wrote:
> I am going to bother you again with an issue that I want to sort out
> for the next version.
> Do we use the word "panel", "Top panel" or "Menu bar"?
> Ubuntu Documentation (Help file) uses menu bar, e.g. click the sound
> menu on the menu bar.
>
> In our manual I see this:
>
> \newglossaryentry{notification area}{name={notification area},
> description={The notification area is an applet on the panel that
> provides you with all sorts of information such as volume control, the
> current song playing in Rhythmbox, your Internet connection status and
> email status.}}
>
> \newglossaryentry{panel}{name={panel}, description={A panel is a bar
> that sits on the edge of your screen. It contains \glspl{applet} which
> provide useful functions such as running programs, viewing the time,
> or accessing the main menu.}}
>
> Any suggestions?
> Hannie


I would stick with "panel", as I see that used, for example, in the
Ubuntu Forums. However, I would make several changes to the glossary as
follows:

\newglossaryentry{panel}{name={panel}, description={The panel is a bar
that stretches along the top edge of your screen. It contains
application menus (on the left, hidden until the mouse hovers over
them), and \glspl{applets} (on the right), which provide useful
functions such as the time, the network indicator, and the system
settings.}}

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] top bar, menu bar, panel or top panel

[Paddy Landau]

> P.s.: since I started this discussion on several mailing lists, I
> would appreciate it if people send their reactions to all.

I wouldn't be on all the lists, but you have my permission to use my
ideas freely on the other lists if you think it will help.

I have asked the question on the Ubuntu Forums. Let's see if we get an
even better suggestion than "top bar".

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2022172

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] top bar, menu bar, panel or top panel

[Paddy Landau]

On 11/07/12 14:46, Hannie Dumoleyn wrote:
> > But I would still say: who has decided on this? And do we agree? I
> hope I do not sound arrogant, all I want is to have a clear answer.

I think we're all in agreement with you, Hannie.

The big point is that the manual must be clear and obvious to the
reader, without causing confusion with the help system and other areas.

At this point, I am in agreement with "menu bar", not because I think it
is right (I don't), but because it would be consistent.

In the glossary and when introducing the term "menu bar", we would have
to explain that we mean the long thin bar at the top (as opposed to the
long thick bar at the left, which of course is the Launcher).

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] top bar, menu bar, panel or top panel

[Paddy Landau]

> > Additionally, per the GNOME docs style guide, menubar should be one
> word, not two


"Menubar" as one word is really ugly. :-( I'm not sure that we should be
mangling English.

Are we perhaps looking in the wrong places? Surely there is someone or
some team who decides the standards within Canonical, and we should ask
that person or team?

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] top bar, menu bar, panel or top panel

[Paddy Landau]

On 12/07/12 10:58, Phil Bull wrote:
> > (3) Validated by user testing

This point is the most important of them all by a long way.

If you have tested with real users, that gives the answer we need.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Incorrect pictures on the web page

[Paddy Landau]

On 12/07/12 21:11, Kevin Godby wrote:
> If anyone knows of a good web developer...

I used to develop websites (not full time, but it included my own ones).

Then I changed to Joomla, but that required some development to work
well. Updating versions was also time-consuming and a pain.

But now I use WordPress. A colleague introduced me to it.

The following will sound like a vested-interest advert, but I promise I
have no material interest in WordPress whatsoever.


  * WordPress is FLOSS (like Ubuntu ;-) )
http://wordpress.org/about/license/

  * It is quick to set up a new website
http://wordpress.org/about/features/

  * Updating versions (including themes and plug-ins) is a breeze, takes
seconds (really), and is reliable; I've never had one fail on me

  * Making changes to your website (adding and removing pages, changing
the menu) is easy and mostly intuitive

  * WordPress is used by tens of millions of websites, including some
world-famous brands
http://wordpress.com/stats/
http://wordpress.com/notable-users/

  * There are many hundreds of free themes (and many paid-for ones),
many from WordPress and some from independent parties
http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/

  * Choosing a new theme is straightforward and usually quick

  * There are thousands of free plug-ins (and many paid-for ones), from
CAPTCHA to picture & video galleries to Social Networking, many from
WordPress and some from independent parties
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/

  * Adding, removing and setting up plug-ins is quick and simple

  * Allowing comments from the public on selected or all pages is
optional and built in

  * Blogging facilities are also optional and built in

  * Backing up an entire WordPress website is quick and easy (as is
restoring when need be — I know from personal experience)

  * I could probably find volunteers on the Ubuntu Forums to help
customise a theme if we need to — though I recommend against this,
because you'd have to re-customise sometimes when the theme is
updated (but some themes have built-in customisation options)


I strongly suggest you experiment with WordPress. I am happy to help
with this; and, if you need one, I'll even provide a test domain where
it can be set up, tested and finalised before moving it to the live area.

Paddy

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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Meeting and agenda

[Paddy Landau]

> This weekend we will have the first meeting for the quantal version of
> our manual.

I shall attempt to join. Please excuse me if I don't manage.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Incorrect pictures on the web page

[Paddy Landau]

Hello Kevin

Some good questions. I'll answer them as best as I can.

> 1. Is it easy to generate a translation template file (.pot) that can
> be uploaded to Launchpad to allow our website to be translated?
> 2. Can we then use translation files (.po or .mo) downloaded from
> Launchpad on our site to display translated versions?

I have never heard of .pot, .po and .mo. I also have not tried
localisation with WordPress. However, it does appear to have these built
in, including for Poedit (I think that's what you mean):

  * http://codex.wordpress.org/Translating_WordPress
  * http://codex.wordpress.org/Translating_WordPress#Translating_With_Poedit
  * 
http://codex.wordpress.org/Translating_WordPress#Translating_With_Gettext_Tools
  * http://betterwp.net/wordpress-tips/create-pot-file-using-poedit/


> 3. Can WordPress handle something like our current Downloads page
>  that allows people to download
> the manual in their language and format of choice?

Yes. However, if there isn't already a plug-in for that, there are three
options that I can think of:

 1. Ask someone to develop a plug-in for this.
 2. Use a static page for this particular one (this probably is not a
good idea).
 3. WordPress allows HTML within pages, so this can be done; in
conjunction with some hand-written PHP, it should be fairly easy to do.


There may be other options, such as using Javascript, but I'd have to
find out about that. Other people would have done this already, so it is
a problem that has been solved --- we just have to find out the easiest way.

Kevin, I suggest:

  * I shall set up a test WordPress site.
  * I shall set up localisation.
  * With your help, we can test a couple of .pot files that you specify.


If it works, we can then check whether WordPress would be helpful (and
use it) or not (and find something else).

How does that sound?

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Places or Go?

[Paddy Landau]

> I'd prefer not to release a new edition of the manual each time we
> find a bug. ... I'd suggest that as we find these bugs in the 12.04
> version of the manual we immediately fix them in the quantal repository.

The problem is that 12.04 is a five-year LTS.

I suggest that we fix errata in 12.04 as we find them, but build and
release the revised manual only occasionally --- say, every month at
first, and thereafter only when the number of revised errata is significant.

In particular, release an updated version the day before 12.04.1 is
released, as --- I believe --- it will coincide with a marketing push.
(The first point-release is usually much more stable than the initial
release. I have been told that businesses wanting a high level of
reliability and stability are advised to wait for the first
point-release before upgrading.)

The scheduled release date for 12.04.1 is August 23rd.

Such errata would not be significant for in-between releases, which are
supported for 18 months, are not expected to be kept for a long time,
and are not recommended for those needing high stability.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Incorrect pictures on the web page

[Paddy Landau]

On 16/07/12 00:49, Patrick Dickey wrote:
> I found this link...


Thank you, Patrick. I see that it also uses Poedit, which is good news.

I shall investigate.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Software Center update

[Paddy Landau]

> It took me some time to find out it is installed in
> /usr/share/applications, but then users can just type "Getting" in the
> Dash to find it.


When I first looked for the manual, I typed the word "manual" into the
Dash, but it was not found.

The Dash recognises any word from the title or from the description.

At the moment, the description reads:

Comprehensive beginners guide for the Ubuntu operating system

I suggest you add the words "manual" and "help", perhaps as follows:

Comprehensive help from the beginner's guide and manual for the
Ubuntu operating system

That way, Dash will find it with both "manual" and "help".

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Software Center update

[Paddy Landau]

> ... I think most people would search for the title of the application
> or book that they just installed when they're looking for it.

Maybe, but many won't. I did not; I installed the manual and expected to
find it under "manual".

> While I provided a complete description and a list of keywords for the
> Software Center entry, it appears that the only thing that the Dash
> looks for is the title of the 'application' and the edited tagline:
>
> Getting Started with Ubuntu 12.04
> Comprehensive beginners guide for the Ubuntu operating system

I still think that we should add the words "manual" and "help" to the
tag line. I can imagine beginners who have installed the manual and
pretty much forgotten about it, who would then use the word "help" to
search for help.

Another idea: What about having the manual included in the default
installation of Ubuntu? Do you think that is feasible?

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Editors Quantal

[Paddy Landau]

>> The link does not work for me, I come only to a google login page...
>
> Could it be that you need to create a Google account first? I am not
> sure, but you can try.


I get the same problem. I have a Google account already, and the message is:

"... you don't have permission to access this item. You can request
access from the owner or choose a different account."

Should we press the "Request access" button? Google creates its own
email address (@gmail.com), and so whoever is controlling access may not
recognise that it comes from me, Carston or whomever.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Advanced topics

[Paddy Landau]

>
> It is too much work to update the current version of the manual, so all
> changes should be made to the Quantal version.


I thought we would be issuing a revised version later?

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Can anyone check this for me?

[Paddy Landau]

On 22/07/12 09:13, Hannie Dumoleyn wrote:
> On page 28 of the manual (Precise) I read:
> This left pane can be changed to display different features (such as
> Information, Tree, History, etc.) by clicking the down arrow beside
> ``Places'' near the top.
>
> In my version of Nautilus 3.4.2 I do not see a down arrow. But in the
> menu View I can choose Sidebar then Places or Tree.
> Can anyone check for me if the information in our manual Precise is
> true. It is possible that I do not see the down arrow because I have
> Unity 2D.

Hannie, I get the same results as you.

You can swap between Places and Tree in the menu View > Sidebar. This is
a reduced functionality, because the previous version had extra ways to
swap.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] changes in e2 and quantal

[Paddy Landau]

On 22/07/12 09:24, Hannie Dumoleyn wrote:
> In the GUI I see:
> Toolbar
> Statusbar
> Sidebar
> So, why shouldn't we write "Menubar" instead of "menu bar".

I dislike mangling English for the sake of inventing unnecessary jargon.
How is such invented jargon to be translated to other languages?

However, consistency is probably the lesser of the two evils.

Therefore, my vote goes, reluctantly, to Menubar (ugh!).

Should it be capitalised?

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Reflection and review

[Paddy Landau]

> We don't have to have the manual out that soon after Ubuntu,
> particularly for a LTS release, for an in between release nothing much
> changes anyway, and most users with moderate experience in computing
> *should* be able to follow the last in the time between Ubuntu's
> release and the manual.


Those are excellent points, John.

An exception would have to be made for major changes, such as when Unity
replaced Gnome 2 in non-LTS version 11.04.

However, the people most likely to be beginners in need of help are
those most likely to use LTS versions, wouldn't you think?

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] New website

[Paddy Landau]

> So far, we have not been able to find developers to build a new
> website for us. But maybe one day someone knocks on our door and says:
> hey, I want to take up this challenge! Who knows ;)

I am busy experimenting with WordPress as an alternative, which (if it
works) would satisfy Kevin's desire for something easy to change, easy
to translate, needing no technical knowledge, and being able to assign
suitable authorisation to the relevant people.

I have been held up for domestic reasons, but I aim to give it a good
push this weekend.

> In that case, we need to point out what it is we want. John already
> created the following page:
>
> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-needs
>
> I added parts of our brainstorming email correspondence (Kevin,
> Hannie, c7p) to this pad. If you have any ideas, just add it to this
> public pad.
> Hannie

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] New website

[Paddy Landau]

Patrick, you sent the link about WordPress at my request, and I have
been investigating it. I have in fact set up a test WordPress site just
to test multilingualism.

I think you may have some valuable experience in this regard.

I do know PHP, albeit not at an expert level, and can certainly help
with things such as drop-down menus. I would prefer to stay away from
customisations as far as is possible because, as Kevin has said, we need
this to be maintainable by non-technical people.

My suggestion is that Kevin, you and I take this off-list (so we don't
clutter it up) and have a bit of a chat. I'd hate to duplicate work that
someone else is already doing.

Sometime this weekend would be great for me, whether on IRC, Skype or
some other method.

What do you think --- Patrick and Kevin, and whoever else wants to join in?

Paddy

On 26/07/12 23:09, Patrick Dickey wrote:
> I agree with Paddy, that WordPress (or another CMS system like Drupal)
> would be the best way to go. With WordPress at least, you can
>
> 1.  Configure logins and permissions for the editors and other admin.
> 2.  Change the theme relatively easily (and even create your own
> themes).
> 3.  Create multi-lingual sites.
>
> And because it's all php based, you should be able to create a string
> with the language code in it, so the user will download the manual for
> whatever language the site is in.  You might even be able to create a
> dropdown, where they can pick whatever language it's avialable in (in
> case they're viewing it in one language but want it in another).
>
> Depending on whether you used any php on the test site, you might be
> able to migrate it over without a lot of major changes.
>
> Some questions that I have are these (and they're meant to help whoever
> develops the site)
>
> 1.  Would it be safe to say that the look and feel of
> test.ubuntu-manual.org is what you're after?
> 2.  Do you have a template page for the test site (without any text in
> it)?
> 3.  Are you able to install a CMS on the current host, or will you need
> to find new hosting?
>
>
> All in all, you've got the right idea. Get the requirements down, then
> create a mockup of what you want the site to look like. Then create the
> site itself.  I should note, that I'm not a web developer (as my
> partially created site will definitely show), but I do occasionally
> tutor some of the web development courses in my local college.
>
> I would say that if the test site will convert over to a php-based site,
> it looks like the best way to go. Since it's all there--just needing to
> be tweaked a bit.
>
> I've got about 3 hours before I have to leave for work, so I'll do a
> little research into actually creating a multi-lingual site in
> WordPress. I did post a couple of links to the group a while back, so
> I'll add those to the page (along with any information I can find about
> specifying the language used in the download).
>
> Have a great day:)
> Patrick.
>
> On Thu, 2012-07-26 at 09:55 +0200, Hannie Dumoleyn wrote: 
>> Hello all,
>> So far, we have not been able to find developers to build a new website 
>> for us. But maybe one day someone knocks on our door and says: hey, I 
>> want to take up this challenge! Who knows ;)
>> In that case, we need to point out what it is we want. John already 
>> created the following page:
>>
>> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-needs
>>
>> I added parts of our brainstorming email correspondence (Kevin, Hannie, 
>> c7p) to this pad. If you have any ideas, just add it to this public pad.
>> Hannie
>>
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] New website

[Paddy Landau]

> That sounds like a good plan. Right now, it's about 10:25 a.m. UTC...

Patrick, rather than trying to figure out a time via email on this list,
shall we use that fancy Doodle thing that was used for the meetings?

I've just signed up and here is the link for anyone who wants to join in.

http://doodle.com/cbmpachxghr3gtuv

I have decided to use IRC, as the Ubuntu Manual members seem to be
comfortable with it.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] "apg" in Ubuntu

[Paddy Landau]

> I noticed in the section on "passwords" in the Ubuntu Manual that the
> Automatic Password Generator, that's built into Ubuntu, wasn't
> mentioned. Just type "apg" into the terminal (no quotation marks) and
> hit enter "apg" will do the rest.


I would avoid apg. First, its generator is poor unless you use certain
command-line options; second, there is a GUI alternative built in to the
user settings.

Click your name on the menu bar > User Accounts (or cog > System
Settings > User Accounts)
> click on the dots next to Password
> press the down-arrow on the picture of the cogs
> select a random password
amend if desired

Paddy
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[Ubuntu-manual] 1st pass thru desktop chapter edits on precise e2

[Paddy Landau]

> if someone has a command-line way to see what interfaces are installed
and in use, let me know!

At the command line, enter:

echo ${DESKTOP_SESSION}

3D returns "ubuntu" and 2D returns "ubuntu-2d".

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] 1st pass thru desktop chapter edits on precise e2

[Paddy Landau]

> Someone should confirm the exclusivity of Unity 3D starting in 12.10.


I didn't quite understand what you meant by that.

12.10 still has Ubuntu-3D for systems that support it, with automatic
fall-back to Ubuntu-2D for those that do not.

Gnome Classic is still available, but you have to install it.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Another manual

[Paddy Landau]

> Quite interesting, this manual. I like the VB part.
>
> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/muktware-ubuntu-manual/

Yes, that is a good manual. Its audience is a little different from our
manual.

Here is a poster that has somehow been lost; now is a good time to
re-find it (see post #85 for the downloads):

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11886478#post11886478

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Another manual

[Paddy Landau]

I see that both the Muktware manual and our manual are mentioned in the
top-10 free apps for July:

http://developer.ubuntu.com/2012/08/top-10-ubuntu-app-downloads-for-july-2012/

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Another manual

[Paddy Landau]

What would be a good chapter?

Well, it doesn't have to be mentioned in the manual, but if it is, I
would place it as a margin note on the first page of "The Ubuntu
Desktop" (currently on page 21 of the manual).

Perhaps next to the "Unity" subheading, something like, "You may find a
Unity quick-reference poster useful", along with the link.

Unfortunately, the Spreadubuntu poster is not up-to-date:
http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/brochure/1204-poster

Would putting the poster into the Ubuntu Software Centre be a better
idea? The only problem then is keeping it up-to-date for the next LTS.

Paddy

On 07/08/12 15:10, Hannie Dumoleyn wrote:
> Yes, Paddy, the mentioning of the poster in our manual is still in the
> pipeline. I have it on my "To do" list for translation. And I put it
> on one of our meeting agenda's but it was forgotten. For the quantal
> version: if we want to mention it, what would be the appropriate
> chapter to make a link to this poster?
> Hannie
>
> Op 07-08-12 13:10, Paddy Landau schreef:
>>> Quite interesting, this manual. I like the VB part.
>>>
>>> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/muktware-ubuntu-manual/
>>
>> Yes, that is a good manual. Its audience is a little different from
>> our manual.
>>
>> Here is a poster that has somehow been lost; now is a good time to
>> re-find it (see post #85 for the downloads):
>>
>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11886478#post11886478
>>
>> Paddy
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Another manual

[Paddy Landau]

> How is the poster out of date?

The final poster (as seen in post #85 of the thread) is version 5. The
version on Spreadubuntu is version 4. You'll see a small formatting
error on the top right, where an arrow feeds into the wording itself.

> The only "error" I see is a mis-spelling of Center

As the standard is to use US English, we should change it (thereby
creating version 6) and place it on Spreadubuntu. I do not know who
maintains Spreadubuntu. We should, I think, also standardise the name of
the file and include the language code, to allow translators to change
it (should they want to).

> who is the current maintainer of the poster? ... how much of a problem
> would it be for the Ubuntu Manual team to take it over?

No one. It was created by Keith Peter, who did a fantastic job, with
subsequent input from the Community. Keith has released it under an open
license, so anyone is welcome to take it over. However, wouldn't this be
more appropriate for the Document team?

Post #85:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11886478#post11886478
Spreadubuntu:
http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/brochure/1204-poster

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] Another manual

[Paddy Landau]

> Are the only changes needed concerning spelling errors (and/or style
> errors, if you want it to look like US English)? Or does some of the
> actual content need to be updated?

We all agreed that it looked good when it was last updated (April 29th),
so unless you yourself see something that needs changing, it's done.

> Does the documentation team have their own mailing list, or do they
> use ours as well?

Its own mailing list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] User name in screenshots

[Paddy Landau]

> ... I only see two solutions worth considering:
>
>   * have screenshot teams in every language in which the manual is (or
will be) translated capture language-specific screenshots to be included
only in those translations.
>   * place a disclaimer at the beginning of all manuals explaining that
the screenshots included in all translations of the manual represent
standard English conventions and that other languages and constructs may
change the textual representation and/or layout of the what is actually
seen locally on the user's computer.
>
> I'm in favor of the latter.


I agree; the latter seems the better.

It's simple and quick, and covers all contingencies.

Translating a user persona into many languages seems to be plenty of
work, which is fine if you can get the volunteers.

In any case, worrying about which name to choose is a bit unnecessary.
As an English speaker, I have no problem seeing (say) "Susan Taylor" in
an example screen-shot (in fact, this is less distracting than seeing a
meaningful name, such as "John Doe").

The only important thing is not which name is chosen, but rather
consistency between screen-shots, so that all relevant shots contain the
same name.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] User name in screenshots

[Paddy Landau]

> ... for me there is no difference between "Susan Taylor" and "John Doe"

Slightly OT: In English, John Doe is used as a place-name for someone
whose name you do not know, typically a body in a morgue awaiting
identification. It's not appropriate for screen-shots.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] User name in screenshots

[Paddy Landau]

> Ok, now I understand. In this case a other placeholder name should be
chosen. What do you suggest?

Any common forename and surname would be fine.

Although you could use something like John Q Public (American) or Joe
Bloggs (UK), these refer to unspecified people. They would look odd in a
screen-shot that represents a supposedly "real" person (albeit invented).

In the same way, I would suggest that translated languages use a common
name for that language rather than a standard place-holder.

Thinking about screen-shots that incorporate emails or social media, the
invented personae of the colleagues or friends do not likewise need to
be common names, but it probably would be a good idea.

Another aspect to think about is the image of the person, if used in
(say) Facebook or Twitter accounts. If none is used, you could use a
gender-neutral name such as Sandy.

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] User name in screenshots

[Paddy Landau]

> [snip] Possible examples include currently playing music and music in
> the user's library


Music presents another potentially-problematic area.

Music that a citizen from one culture takes for granted may be
considered offensive by someone from another culture.

May I suggest that we use classical music, which tends to be culturally
neutral?

Paddy
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Re: [Ubuntu-manual] User name in screenshots

[Paddy Landau]

> Instead of music, can we use some *FREELY* available tones?


What do you mean by "tones"?

The tracks do not need to be free; they are there for demonstration
purposes only (also, we need to show the Ubuntu One store).

If you are interested, there are sites that have public-domain classical
music (entirely legal). Examples:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sound/list
http://lifehacker.com/205978/free-classical-music-downloads
http://musopen.org/music
http://www.makeuseof.com/dir/musopen-search-browse-download-classical-music/

Even Amazon.com has free public-domain classical music (e.g. search for
"Bach" under "MP3 Downloads").

Paddy
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