Re: [Tagging] highway=services & "Road Stations" - subtag requested.

[John Willis]

Javbw

> On Jan 25, 2017, at 2:36 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> your going to distinguish 'road houses' then consider SA, PA, etc too? 

As far as I know,

A Japanese SA, besides being named after the "Services" of a British motorway, 
is modelled after it as well, so the existing tag fits very well.

Existing "rest_area" is a PA, which basically have toilets and a vending 
machine - no restaurants or "employees" to serve you, usually. 

So the road station is the odd man out, in my opinion. If It is useful to the 
eastern US turnpike stops, that's great too. 

But it is regional, as I have never seen a government or other road operating 
company sanction an officially signed and documented "road stop" and then rent 
out space to other companies in California, so I can't comment. Perhaps the 
Golden Gate Park stop is one of the few. 

Javbw. 


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Re: [Tagging] highway=services & "Road Stations" - subtag requested.

[tomoya muramoto]

I think "Michi-no-eki" is not a kind of highway=services,
because usually it does not have a car specific service, like a gas station
or a car maintainance.

A typical Michi-no-eki has
* local food shop
* cafe
* tourist information
* 24/7 parking and toilet

So I usually put "landuse=retail" to Michi-no-eki area, and make indivisual
POIs.

If you need a subtag for Michi-no-eki, how about retail=road_station?

Muramoto Tomoya
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Re: [Tagging] highway=services & "Road Stations" - subtag requested.

[Andy Townsend]

On 25/01/2017 12:28, tomoya muramoto wrote:

I think "Michi-no-eki" is not a kind of highway=services,
because usually it does not have a car specific service, like a gas 
station or a car maintainance.


A typical Michi-no-eki has
* local food shop
* cafe
* tourist information
* 24/7 parking and toilet


In English, I'd call that a "rest area", personally.

Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [Tagging] highway=services & "Road Stations" - subtag requested.

[John Willis]

Javbw

> On Jan 25, 2017, at 9:58 PM, Andy Townsend  wrote:
> 
>> On 25/01/2017 12:28, tomoya muramoto wrote:
>> I think "Michi-no-eki" is not a kind of highway=services,
>> because usually it does not have a car specific service, like a gas station 
>> or a car maintainance.
>> 
>> A typical Michi-no-eki has
>> * local food shop
>> * cafe
>> * tourist information
>> * 24/7 parking and toilet
> 
> In English, I'd call that a "rest area", personally.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Andy
> 
> 
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If it were about resting, but it is much more focused on local tourism. I 
always felt it was more about getting out of the car, going to the bathroom, 
getting a drink, maybe some fresh hot food (noodles) and  buying a local 
souvenir food box to take home (ooh, Yuzu jelly snacks! Local wasabi !), 
getting a soft creame and then getting back on the road. Sometimes it is near a 
local POI, so you walk over and see the waterfall or the dam or the local 
culture museum. 

People drive from road station to road station on long trips, similar to SAs on 
the tollway.  

Tomoya is right - a road station is focused on the person, not the car. And it 
is for retail. But the "rest areas" I am familiar with are usually a toilet 
and a vending machine in a lonely parking lot. These road stations always 
remind me more of a service area - with nice toilets, shops, (sometimes) hot 
food, and souvenirs for sale to the drivers (and tourist busses) stopping by. 
It reminded me of an SA (which are huge malls with a food court now)  - but is 
a motorway=services defined by the gasoline stand? It seemed to be a retail 
space catering to motorists - just like these road stations - but with a gas 
stand too. 

I stop at SAs all the time. I never buy gas. We always stop for the toilet and 
some kind of food. 

I am not familiar enough with service/rest areas outside Japan then - most 
people in California get a lonely gas station at the exit ramp, maybe with a 
McDonald's - not a government designated spot to stop and buy local goods with 
a clean toilet and a soft creme machine. 

Thanks for the feedback so far !  
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Re: [Tagging] highway=services & "Road Stations" - subtag requested.

[tomoya muramoto]

I just think Michi-no-eki is not "highway=*" category, as Javbw said a road
station is focused on the person, not the car.
"tourism=*" is OK, and "amenity=*" is acceptable. But invention of a new
tag is not a good idea.
So I think "(landuse=)retail" is enough to describe it.

Tomoya Muramoto
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Re: [Tagging] highway=services & "Road Stations" - subtag requested.

[Paul Johnson]

On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 7:34 AM, John Willis  wrote:

> I am not familiar enough with service/rest areas outside Japan then - most
> people in California get a lonely gas station at the exit ramp, maybe with
> a McDonald's - not a government designated spot to stop and buy local goods
> with a clean toilet and a soft creme machine


Caltrans (and Oregon DOT and WSDOT) most certainly do operate rest areas.
Usually just a vending machine in a cage and some overused,
under-maintained toilets and lots of parking.

Oklahoma does have concessions plazas (though not as many as before).
These are on turnpike medians and typically have gas, clean toilets and a
convenience store as a minimum.  Larger/newer ones normally have some form
of fast food and (yes, this is weird) video rental.  What Oklahoma calls a
rest area is typically similar to the west coast examples, except there are
no toilets, just parking.  Maybe a view if you're lucky.
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Re: [Tagging] highway=services & "Road Stations" - subtag requested.

[John Willis]

> On Jan 26, 2017, at 12:45 AM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> 
>  Usually just a vending machine in a cage and some overused, under-maintained 
> toilets and lots of parking.


yea, i’m more familiar with the view points (Interstate 5 near camp Pendleton) 
and that style of crap rest area near Castaic lake. Maybe the map stop on 
interstate 8 as you come into san diego. I have driven 300,000 miles in 
California, and those are the 3 I can name.  they are usually barren dirty 
places you stop at only if you have to. all the SA/PA/ road stations are places 
you hope you can stop at here in Japan. They are usually very nice. 

I have stopped at 20 different SA/PA in Japan in the last month. I have been 
to.. 15 road stations (?) in 5 years. They are so different. 



> On Jan 25, 2017, at 11:08 PM, tomoya muramoto  
> wrote:
> 
> I just think Michi-no-eki is not "highway=*" category



The Road stations are specifically made for driving tourists in the same manner 
as an SA/PA, so they are in the same category.

Both SA and PA are in the road space, as should road stations. 



The wiki for rest_area shows some lonely picnic benches - not a row of shops 
selling food and souvenirs. the  

The new PA (a rest area) on the Kita-kanto is this: a little bit of grass, a 
vending machine, and a nice toilets.  

I would never consider the two road stations I linked to in the same class: 2 
restaurants, a motorcycle museum, a souvenir shop, etc. 

Maybe this is because there is such a huge disparity between a rest_area in the 
US and a nice road station.

The rest_area wiki page: 

> Some are set further back in the form of short loops of service road, and may 
> feature mobile fast food outlets, toilets etc.

To me, the presence of shops and amenities vs a lonely toilet is a big 
difference,  But t seems that gasoline is the dividing line between =services 
and =rest_area. 

perhaps the combination of:

highway=rest_area
+
retail=road_station 

is a good solution. 

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Re: [Tagging] highway=services & "Road Stations" - subtag requested.

[Mark Wagner]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:58:39 +
Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 25/01/2017 12:28, tomoya muramoto wrote:
> > I think "Michi-no-eki" is not a kind of highway=services,
> > because usually it does not have a car specific service, like a gas 
> > station or a car maintainance.
> >
> > A typical Michi-no-eki has
> > * local food shop
> > * cafe
> > * tourist information
> > * 24/7 parking and toilet  
> 
> In English, I'd call that a "rest area", personally.

In American, I'd call that a "travel plaza" (one with limited
services, since it doesn't have fuel). A "rest area" would have
parking, toilets, probably some picnic tables, usually a state highway
map, and perhaps a vending machine or two.

-- 
Mark

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Re: [Tagging] highway=services & "Road Stations" - subtag requested.

[Warin]

On 26-Jan-17 12:34 PM, John Willis wrote:


On Jan 26, 2017, at 12:45 AM, Paul Johnson > wrote:


Usually just a vending machine in a cage and some overused, 
under-maintained toilets and lots of parking.



yea, i’m more familiar with the view points (Interstate 5 near camp 
Pendleton) and that style of crap rest area near Castaic lake. Maybe 
the map stop on interstate 8 as you come into san diego. I have driven 
300,000 miles in California, and those are the 3 I can name.  they are 
usually barren dirty places you stop at only if you have to. all the 
SA/PA/ road stations are places you hope you can stop at here in 
Japan. They are usually very nice.


'Rest Areas' in Australia are variable .. some have toilets. All have an 
area to pull off the main road. Very few have bins. Fewer still have water.
Where there is no formal toilet you can expect to find random places 
used as toilets ... and some of these allow the used toilet paper to 
blow around.
Entering a 'rest area' is done with preparation to keep going without 
stopping.
Some people have marked these 'rest areas' as camp sites in OSM ... I 
would never stop at such a place, ok for RV and caravans where you can 
lock the outside out, but camping, never.




I have stopped at 20 different SA/PA in Japan in the last month. I 
have been to.. 15 road stations (?) in 5 years. They are so different.




On Jan 25, 2017, at 11:08 PM, tomoya muramoto 
mailto:muramototom...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I just think Michi-no-eki is not "highway=*" category



The Road stations are specifically made for driving tourists in the 
same manner as an SA/PA, so they are in the same category.


Both SA and PA are in the road space, as should road stations.



The wiki for rest_area shows some lonely picnic benches - not a row of 
shops selling food and souvenirs. the


The new PA (a rest area) on the Kita-kanto is this: a little bit of 
grass, a vending machine, and a nice toilets.


I would never consider the two road stations I linked to in the same 
class: 2 restaurants, a motorcycle museum, a souvenir shop, etc.


Maybe this is because there is such a huge disparity between a 
rest_area in the US and a nice road station.


The rest_area wiki page:

Some are set further back in the form of short loops of service road, 
and may feature mobile fast food outlets, toilets etc.


To me, the presence of shops and amenities vs a lonely toilet is a big 
difference,  But t seems that gasoline is the dividing line between 
=services and =rest_area.


perhaps the combination of:

highway=rest_area
+
retail=road_station

is a good solution.

Javbw.


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