Re: [RE-wrenches] Is there a charge controller do this?

[Solar]

I think DT is on the right track. We have a relay driver set up at the college. 
We have it set it for turning lights, alarms and motors on a certain voltages. 
The students also do a lab with it. It could do exactly what DT mentions. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 29, 2018, at 9:07 PM, Darryl Thayer  wrote:
> 
> Hi Friends, sorry to be slow.  This fits the Morningstar relay driver 
> exactly.  It can look at the battery voltage and activate relays in multiple 
> fashions.  When the battery voltage is low at the recharge point, the relay 
> driver can be set to start a two wire or three wire generator.  This can be 
> done with the relay driver using a start delay or not.  Then when the 
> generator is running after warm up, the relay driver can close a 
> relay/contactor to load the generator.  The voltage comes up to absorb volts 
> where the battery will absorb a lot of current.  It is possible to use the 
> relay driver to insert a resistance via a contactor or just let the battery 
> go to a higher voltage and shut the generator off.  For example start the gen 
> at 50 volts, let it charge to 58 volts, and shut it down. If the generator is 
> large the battery voltage will rise too quickly and a relay/contactor with 
> resistor should be used.   There are a number of control scenarios.  
> 
> I think by the description the generator will overload and depending on 
> generator field control either stall or reduce speed and keep running.   Good 
> luck 
> 
>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 9:23 PM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
>> Hello wrenches,
>> 
>> I'm working on 3 off-grid telecom sites.  They are designed to operate solar 
>> only under most conditions but the project manager ordered a custom-built 48 
>> VDC generators, intended to be used as the battery charger/backup power for 
>> the site.  These are ~20 kW generators, and can probably do about ~350Adc at 
>> 48 Vdc at the elevation that these are sited.  The battery banks are 4 x 
>> 1000 Ahr GS Nanocarbon 48 battery strings and can gobble up the 350Adc 
>> easily when they are discharged.
>> 
>> While discussing the generator operation with the generator supplier, we 
>> have found this generator isn't capable of charge control, or limiting its 
>> own output.  The charge control functionality isn't necessary at this site 
>> because we really just need it to keep things online until the sun returns, 
>> a simple 54 VDC float voltage would work.  However, without the generator 
>> being able to self-limit its output, we expect this generator to stall when 
>> started because it can't regulate its output current and will immediately 
>> become overloaded by the discharged batteries.
>> 
>> I am trying to come up with some options to rectify this serious design 
>> issue.  One idea that immediately came to mind was putting in some parallel 
>> solar charge controllers between the DC generator output and the battery 
>> bank.  If the generator output could be dialed up to around 60-70 VDC, could 
>> parallel solar charge controllers be used for charge regulation?  It would 
>> be kind of like charging a 48 V battery bank from a 70 V battery bank.  MPPT 
>> isn't applicable, could the max current limit in the charge controller(s) be 
>> used to regulate charge rate?  Will the charge controllers blow up?  If not, 
>> what brand might work.  Each site has 8 x Midnite Classic 150s but I'm open 
>> to other manufacturers if it would work.  I am open to blowing up a charge 
>> controller in the shop but I thought it best to ask first.
>> 
>> What are other ways to put this generator to use, and limit its load?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks for your input/comments
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mac Lewis
>> 
>> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Stuck in a furl

[Solar]

I ordered parts for our 1kW on campus a couple years ago. It was a hassle. I’ll 
check my records and send the company info. I can’t remember the name off the 
top of my head. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 3:44 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez  wrote:
> 
> ‭+1 (519) 955-1243‬
> Chris Meier 
>  Farm energy Inc.-Canada
> 
> Jeremy Rodriguez 
> Solar Installation / Design Expert 
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1463 M St
> Penrose Colorado 81240
> 
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
> 
> On Mar 7, 2018, at 12:42 PM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
> 
>> Hello wrenches,
>> 
>> I have a client with an older Whisper 200, 1 kW wind turbine.  We didn't 
>> install this but have taken over the site maintenance since the original 
>> installer left town.  The site recently experienced prolonged relatively 
>> high winds for 3-4 days.  After that, he went out and noticed that the tail 
>> is stuck in the side-furling position.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   I'm not very familiar with this turbine or wind turbines in general, but 
>> looking at a manual, it looks like we may need a new bushing or maybe even a 
>> new casting.  Does anyone have any idea where I could order parts for this 
>> turbine?  Is there a suitable replacement turbine we should be looking at?  
>> At last check, the turbine was putting out good power and passed all 
>> electrical checks.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance for your expertise
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mac Lewis
>> 
>> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ibew is working to exclude C-46 contractor’s from installing Batteries.

[Solar]

I’ve never heard of C-10 or C-46. A quick google search seems to point to it 
only being a CA thing. Nothing like this happening in MN. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 23, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Peter Parrish  
> wrote:
> 
> Jason,
>  
> I’d like to read the .pdf you refer to if that would not violate a 
> Non-Disclosure Agreement. I am on the California Solar & Storage Association 
> (formerly CalSEIA) Storage Subcommittee.
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Peter T. Parrish
> SolarGnosis / California Solar Engineering
> 1107 Fair Oaks Ave. Ste. 351
> South Pasadena, CA 91030
> (323) 839-6108
> peter.parr...@solargnosis.com
>  
> From: Jason Andrade
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 6:02 PM
> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ibew is working to exclude C-46 contractor’s from 
> installing Batteries.
>  
> Hi at this point I believe this is a California only issue, but I was 
> contacted by CalSeia today and was asked to be involved in a discussion 
> regarding a move where only a C-10 contractor can install a battery based 
> system
> This was news to me but they sent me a pdf outlining the issue and I will 
> read it over this weekend has anyone else heard about this?
> My instant response is what special training does the c10 have that the c46 
> doesn’t ?
> Jason Andrade
> West Coast Sustainables
>  
> Sent from my iPhone
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[RE-wrenches] Silicon energy

[Solar]

Hello,

Silicon energy shuttered it’s plant in MN a few years ago but when they opened 
the college I teach at purchased 32 modules. Well we had two from the first run 
delaminate this winter. They are on our dorm building. This is a shot in the 
dark, but any chance anyone has two of these sitting around? I can make the 
system work with 8 modules but I’d rather just slide two in. I’m guessing this 
is just going to keep happening. These modules are 6 or 7 years old. 

Thanks 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Pika

[Solar]

I met that Pika crew at the energy fair in WI this year. Had a long talk with 
them. They showed me their System and answered questions. Seems cool. But, I 
have to agree Jay, after this silicon energy and Tenk solar debacle in MN, I’ll 
only use proven equipment. I’ll be walking away from jobs if people want the 
new shinny thing. It is absolutely not worth the risk. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 7, 2018, at 12:23 PM, Ray  wrote:
> 
> I would highly recommend using proven equipment from the long term off grid 
> companies: Magnum, Midnite, Outback, Schneider, etc. and stick with a DC 
> coupled array and lead acid batteries for now.  I just got back from 
> inspecting two Li+ off grid systems done by a GT dealer, and I saw numerous 
> issues that included the charge controllers not agreeing with the BMS system, 
> the BMS system monitoring having numerous programming and connectivity 
> issues, the battery overall being vastly undersized, the manufacturer (Adara) 
> dropping support for their battery, and the customers being hopping mad.  
> Most off grid folks own guns; not a good combination to walk into.
> My advice, is that if an installer hasn't lived off grid and/ or dedicated 
> their practice to off grid systems, they should stay out of it and quit 
> ruining peoples' lives.  GT is usually never a life or death matter, but Off 
> grid can be, when they are snowed in with no fridge, no water, no heat, and 
> no communications.  Reliability is goal #1, Simplicity is #2. 
> Good Luck,
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>> On 9/7/18 11:03 AM, Kristopher Schmid wrote:
>> Wrenches,
>> 
>> I am trying to design a Pika off-grid system.  The issue is that they 
>> currently have no way to charge from a generator.  Has anyone ever installed 
>> one set up for zero grid export and connected the generator to the grid 
>> input?  
>> 
>> Would LG chem or another manufacturer be a better choice?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Kris
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Insolation calc anyone ;)

[Solar]

I live in Northern MN and we get very cold days (-50F +) and very crisp clear 
days when it’s this cold. I’ve seen 1333 WM2 on the same plane as my array with 
snow reflecting sun light. Using the daystar irradiance meter. I am at 1400’ so 
your increased elevation with very cold temps, snow and edge of cloud could 
maybe cause it. Maybe a calculation of extremes could give you an idea. 
Rearrange the formula and get the irradiance needed to cause this high of 
watts. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 22, 2018, at 12:10 AM,  
>  wrote:
> 
> Compadres,
> 
> I have 4 identical arrays of 3 strings of 3 Solarworld SW 245 mono (2010 
> model) to FM80s. When designing, not exceeding 150 voc was critical. No 
> record temp data available. Location ~ 4,000' Pacific Northwest. Recently 
> replaced an FM80 with 6 blown FETs showing max power at 3075 watts! This from 
> a 2205 watt array into a 24 volt battery. Max historical voc is ~120. My 
> guess at record low temp is -10F. tc%/ºC MPP doesn't get anywhere close. What 
> would the WM2 need to be in order to achieve 3075 watts on a 2205 watt array? 
> BTW, 2 of the four original chargers are still working fine and one of them 
> also shows 3075 watts max power. Edge of cloud effect against snow field at 
> bottom of array?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Bruce Fiero-RMI
> 
> 
> 
> "Energizing the Rogue Valley"
> 
> 4115 S Pacific Hwy
> Medford, OR 97501
> 
> P: 541.535.3965
> F: 541.512.0061
> E: br...@willpowerelect.com
> W: Willpower Electric, LLC 
> 
> CCB 191852
> Oregon Electrical Contractor C681
> NABCEP Certified Solar (PV) Installer 031409-38
> DUNS 191470363 
> Energy Trust of Oregon Trade Ally Solar (PV) Installation & Energy Efficient 
> Commercial Lighting Programs  
> 
>  
> **This email may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or 
> otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the 
> addressee, or if it appears that you have received this email in error, 
> please advise me immediately by reply email, keep the contents confidential, 
> and immediately delete the message and any attachments from your system. 
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[RE-wrenches] Outback grid-tie question

[Solar]

Hello all,

I looked at a battery back up system a couple days ago and have been looking 
over it since and can’t seem to find anything causing the problem. The system 
was shutdown for some work on the building and when it was turned back on it 
would not sell back to the grid. It will connect to the AC line but when the 
storage is full and all loads are off it will not sell. The CC will state it is 
in “GT MODE” and all the setting are correct. I’ve checked it on optics RE and 
the mate, turned it on and off, moved settings. 

I have not done an update. 

As always, thank you!

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Crimper for Enphase field wireable connectors

[Solar]

I have a college budget so I buy the recommended tools for our classroom but 
even then I’ve had to just discuss tools and show them on the overhead because 
some tools are extremely expensive. As a small time installer I can’t afford 
some of those tools. I have borrowed tools from other contractors that I have a 
good working relationship with. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 8, 2019, at 6:34 PM, Glenn Burt  wrote:
> 
> Nick,
> I recall an extensive discussion here regarding terminals to be used for 
> battery terminals and the terminal manufacturer’s requirement to use a 
> specific crimper with their components to maintain their listing.
>  
> It was the consensus here that the manufacturer could not exclude other 
> listed tools to make the connections, and retain the listing as it was built.
>  
> Please explain to me how what you are telling us is different?
>  
> Regards,
> Glen Burt
>  
> From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
> Nick Soleil
> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2019 11:29 AM
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Crimper for Enphase field wireable connectors
>  
> Hi Jason,
> 
>  
> 
> The Field Wireable Connectors Installation Guide specified the following 
> crimping tools for use with the connectors: Multi-Contact PV-CZM-18100, 
> -19100, or -22100.  That tool is required for meeting our reliability 
> requirements and compliance requirements.
> 
>  
> 
> The document can be found here:
> 
> https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/downloads/support/Q-Field-Wireable-Connectors-QIG-EN-US.pdf
> 
> Cordially,
> Nick Soleil
> 
> Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager, Envoy and Accessories
> 
> (707) 763-4784 x7267  // office
> 
> (707) 321-2937  // cell
> 
> Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System
> 
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300
> 
> California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315
> 
>  
> 
> From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
> Jason Szumlanski 
> Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2019 3:03 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Crimper for Enphase field wireable connectors
>  
> I have the Rennsteig now. I wasn't sure if it is ok to use since it's not the 
> exact specified model in the Enphase instructions. There are all kinds of 
> knock offs for under $50 and I have found a couple that seem to work 
> extremely well, but again I'm not sure if it violates the listing to do so.  
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer
> Florida Solar Design Group
>  
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2019, 9:16 PM Jay  wrote:
> Hi Jason
> 
> Talk to Bryan at PV cables 
> 
> 707-923-3000
> 
> He’s got the Rennsteig tool for under $200 and the MFG tool for just under 
> $300
> 
> Jay
> 
> Peltz power. 
> 
> > On Mar 6, 2019, at 2:20 PM, Jason Szumlanski 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Is there a reasonably priced alternative to the Multi-Contact PV-CZM-##100 
> > models? These are the only ones specified in the quick install guide. 
> > Obviously I don't want to violate the listing, but I also don't want to 
> > spend $500 for a tool for each truck. 
> > 
> > Jason Szumlanski
> > Principal Solar Designer
> > Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Micro-grid

[Solar]

I have three SB 700 for my solar class.  When we get the “waiting” on our LCD 
we are always well above the required VOC. A call to SMA years ago lead me to 
finding that there is a “wattage In”rating I need to meet to get the inverters 
to grid tie. I never saw this in the manual. These inverters have a narrow V 
and I window so finding modules for the lab was tricky. I had used 75V/1.4A 
modules for the stings to meet the 115-150Vdc range and a 2A max input rating. 
Connecting two of these in series never would take the inverter out of 
“waiting” mode unless it was blue bird skies and we tilted to array right at 
the sun. I finally put three or four in series on a (500w/m squared) cloudy day 
and the inverter immediately tied to the grid. Going back to 2 in series left 
it in waiting. That’s when I called and asked about a min current input rating 
and was told about the not listed wattage (I was told power) In rating. 

Not sure if this applies to you but it was a great lesson for the students. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 23, 2019, at 2:21 PM, Harry Mahon  
> wrote:
> 
> William - yes, waiting is usually waiting for grid to come back within spec 
> or for DC voltage to get to start.  260 should be plenty.  208V with neutral 
> should be fine without adjusting the jumpers.  Have you measured the AC 
> voltage at the inverter terminals?
>  
> May want to contact service for this one.  1-877-697-6283.
>  
> Best regards –
> Mike
>  
> From: William Miller  
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 12:40 PM
> To: Harry Mahon 
> Cc: RE-wrenches 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Micro-grid
>  
> Mike:
>  
> Thanks for the reply. Good information. 
>  
> The AC system is 208. The data sheet indicates that for 208 the PV startup is 
> 220. Today we have 260 VDC. That should be enough!?
>  
> I checked EMT he AC frequency in case it was on shift mode. It is right at 
> 60.00. 
>  
> Still in waiting mode. I had always thought “waiting” was for grid reconnect 
> timeout...
>  
> William
> 
> On Apr 23, 2019, at 8:47 AM, Harry Mahon  
> wrote:
> 
> William –
> Waiting mode means the DC voltage is below the inverter start.  For SB 
> 4000-12, that would be 285 VDC (and will work to 250VDC once that is hit).
>  
> If you knock on the inverter lid, the display will cycle and you will see the 
> DC voltage displayed.
>  
> If the yellow LED is not on, this should not be an AC side issue.
>  
> I do not think the “Backup Mode” parameter would be the cause, but if the 
> voltage check shows well above PVstart, it would be worth a call to service.  
> If the inverter was left in on grid mode, then it will work when the SI is 
> creating a micro-grid with frequency within UL1741 limits.  If the system is 
> off-grid, I would think the SB would have been set to off-grid mode rather 
> than enabling Backup Mode to “on all” that allows switching from on-grid to 
> off-grid parameter sets by RS485 command.
>  
> Best-
> Mike
>  
> From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
> William Miller
> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2019 6:54 PM
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA Micro-grid
>  
> Friends:
>  
> I am working on an AC coupled SMA system in an off-grid setting.  We have an 
> SB4000-12 that was disconnected for a number of years and we reconnected it.  
> The inverter is stuck in the waiting mode and  will not generate power.  The 
> Sunny Islands and Sunny Boys are connected via an RS485 communication system.
>  
> I suspect there is a programming step I have not yet accomplished.  I recall 
> some years ago I programmed the other Sunny Boys for off-grid operation.  I 
> can’t find anything in any of the manuals about how to check the programming. 
>  I also suspect SAM tech support talked me through this and the information 
> may not be published.
>  
> Does this ring a bell with any of you?  Any advice? 
>  
> Thanks in advance.
>  
> William Miller
>  
> Miller Solar
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com
> CA Lic. 773985
>  
> Quote of the day:  “If there is a job you hate, get really,
> really good at it. Maybe you will hate it less.“ W. Miller
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 1 kW 120 Vac grid tied inverter

[Solar]

The SMA 1000 was 120V output. I saw one a while back on eBay. 

The SMA 700 are nice little units for training. The input window is tight with 
newer modules. The input max current is pretty low. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2019, at 5:04 PM, Christopher Warfel 
>  wrote:
> 
> If it is going to be grid tied, non of the small inverters that I know of 
> will be UL listed and they cannot be used. I also think they are all stand 
> alone in any case. We use a fair number on boats and on the oyster farm.  I 
> think the smallest that I can think of is Outback GTFX at 3000 watts, 120VAC, 
> but you probably already looked at that.  Chris
> 
>> On 4/29/2019 10:12 AM, Jay wrote:
>> Hi peter. 
>> 
>> Check amazon or eBay etc. lots of cheap Chinese small inverters. 
>> 
>> Jay
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 28, 2019, at 8:18 PM, Peter Parrish  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I replaced a number of AES (?) 120 Vac 1 kW grid tied inverter back when I 
>>> was just starting out (2000) There was one poor design element with the DC 
>>> fuse holders that I discovered and was able to work around, but I usually 
>>> advised my clients to swap these inverters out for the SMA SWR 2500 and add 
>>> some PV panels into the mix. I kept a couple of the AES 1000s for a while 
>>> and then finally gave them to our local scrap metal purveyor.
>>>  
>>> I have a 900 W off-grid system that I used to haul around to “green 
>>> events”. Blue Sky CC, Xantrex 1000 W inverter, 24 V AGM battery set. But as 
>>> time goes by I spend very little time demoing this big an off-grid system, 
>>> and I wish I had an AES-1000 to covert my seldom-used off-grid system into 
>>> a revenue producing grid tied system.
>>>  
>>> Did anyone else keep a working AES-1000 (or low power grid tied inverter) 
>>> that works and would be willing to part with it for a modest sum. Is there 
>>> a solid  ~1,000 W 120 Vac grid tied inverter out there on the market?
>>>  
>>> My system is comprised of five (5) Tata 180s. Vmpp=35.8 V.
>>>  
>>> Peter
>>>  
>>> Peter T. Parrish
>>> SolarGnosis
>>> 1107 Fair Oaks Ave. Ste. 351
>>> South Pasadena, CA 91030
>>> (323) 839-6108
>>> peter.parr...@solargnosis.com
>>>  
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>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Micro inverters not on the roof.

[Solar]

I did something similar for my lab at the community college I teach at. Long 
story short, the lab used modules mounted outside on an awning and all the 
inverters (string, off-grid and micro) were inside so hookup could be done 
during poor weather or evening. 

Worked out nice. 

Jesse 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 17, 2013, at 4:08 PM, "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems" 
>  wrote:
> 
> William,
> If your Vmp drop is under 2% (my design goal for maximum acceptable loss) I 
> can't see any reason why not.
> 
> Larry 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 17, 2013, at 3:00 PM, "William Miller"  wrote:
> 
> Friends:
>  
> I am reworking an existing off-grid system to become a grid-tie with 
> micro-inverters.  With your help, we have already determined that the M-190 
> inverters will work and we have acquired the 9 of them we need.
>  
> Since the installation was completed in 1996, the home owner has installed a 
> shade cover over a skylight.  Some of the supporting structure is preventing 
> us from getting under the modules to install the M-190s.  Each module was fed 
> to the equipment cabinet since the combiner was located there.  I have 
> decided it will be much easier to install the M-190s in the equipment 
> cabinet.  We have everything we need there:  The individual PV leads (in 
> 10AWG), the breaker panel and room to mount the inverters.  Can any of you 
> see any reason why the M-190s can’t be installed no on the roof?
>  
> Thanks in advance,
>  
> William
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 17395 Oak Rd. Atascadero, CA 93422
> www.millersolar.com
> 805-438-5600 voice
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Deka AGMs

[Solar]

Kevin,

I'd like that information too...

Jesse Dahl
Re-Power
dahlso...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 6, 2014, at 10:29 PM, "Howie Michaelson"  
> wrote:
> 
> Kevin,
> 
> I would be interested in the "factory testing process and inspection
> sheets" as well.
> 
> Thanks,
> Howie
> -- 
> Howie Michaelson
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
> 
> Catamount Solar, LLC
> Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
> VT Solar Electric & Hot Water Incentive Partner
> http://www.CatamountSolar.com
> 802-272-0004
> 
> 
>> On Mon, January 6, 2014 6:17 pm, Kevin Pegg wrote:
>> Hi August,
>> 
>> I have many of these batteries in service. They are generally very good
>> batteries but they must be charged properly. Which goes for any battery,
>> really, but these are not as easily recovered from under-charge. At 12
>> years old I would expect they are approaching end of service, so good to
>> let the client plan for that.
>> 
>> The most common issue we find is a cell or two that is not taking full
>> charge. To remedy that a 2V / 50A charger is connected to that cell to
>> bring it up in balance with rest of the bank.
>> 
>> If you want I can email you the factory testing process and inspection
>> sheets directly.
>> 
>> Kevin Pegg
>> EA Energy Alternatives Ltd.
>> 37471 Hwy 16 E
>> Telkwa, BC  V0J 2X2
>> 250-846-9888
>> Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca <http://www.energyalternatives.ca/>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of August
>> Goers
>> Sent: January 6, 2014 1:00 PM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Deka AGMs
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> All Battery Wrenches,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I’m servicing an existing battery backup system with some big Deka AGM
>> battery banks. I believe they are about 12 years old. Does anyone have any
>> general comments about Deka batteries? Any suggestions about how I would
>> test these would be greatly appreciated. Here’s a link to the product:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=366
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> August
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Luminalt
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] CA Fire code

[Solar]

Just checking in on this and maybe it was mentioned but Silicon Energy produced 
a Class A module, but they only have 190-195W output and as mentioned are cost 
prohibitive to most homeowners. 

Jesse 
RE-Power 
dahlso...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 9, 2014, at 6:13 PM, Martin Herzfeld  wrote:
> 
> 
> 1.  In addition to the thoughts shared, for instance, for one AHJ:
> 
> (A) I think "Photovoltaic Installations west of Interstate 280 require PV 
> modules to have a minimum Class A fire rating" - requirements and 'additional 
> information' since 2009 were revised and updated here ...?
> 
> http://www.cityofpaloalto.org/gov/depts/utl/residents/resources/pcm/pv_permitting_and_interconnection.asp
> 
> (B) Also ground-mount options - not only just rooftops - CSFM Guidelines 
> Section 5.0, ...
> 
> http://www.cityofpaloalto.org/civicax/filebank/documents/34052
> http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/informationbulletin/pdf/2012/IB_12-004_FireApparatusAccessRoadsPhotovoltaicFacilities.pdf
> http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/training/pdf/Photovoltaics/Fire%20Ops%20PV%20lo%20resl.pdf
> 
> You may first check with the specific jurisdiction for more information ... 
>   
> 2.  In addition, you may want to join or attend the IAEI meetings in 
> California, there's good information on this and other topics at the monthly 
> meetings and CEUs.
> 
> http://www.iaei.org
> 
> 3.  By the way, I attended at the very last stakeholder meeting in SF and the 
> publications here for new changes and updates ...
> 
> http://www.solarabcs.org/about/publications/reports/flammability-testing/index.html
> 
> 4. Wildland Hazard/Building Codes
> 
> http://www.fire.ca.gov/fire_prevention/fire_prevention_wildland_zones.php
> 
> We'll check it out on an install, if in the area ...
> 
> Martin Herzfeld
> California Contractor License  #833782 
> UL Certified PV Installer #17, OSHA 30
> Certified Technical Classroom Trainer (CTT+)
> OSHA-Authorized Construction Trainer
> 
> Wrenches,
> If you are in a wild land fire zone in CA, it looks like we are all in for a 
> rude awakening. Our local AHJ is requiring not only set backs for ventilation 
> of roofs, but also THAT ALL PANELS ON THE ROOF CARY A CLASS A FIRE RATING! It 
> doesn't take allot of research to realize that this pretty much eliminates 
> roof-top solar as an option, as if you can eve find a class A panel, they are 
> cost prohibitive. I'm wondering a couple things. One, has anyone had luck 
> using the local political process to postpone the enforcement of the class A 
> requirement? and two, has anyone found readily available Class A modules?
>   This issue seems to have caught the industry with it's pants down, as 
> industry lobby doesn't even seem to be aware that the the local AHJ's would 
> have this interpretation. Is this the end of roof top solar in 60% of 
> California? What are y'all doing to deal with this issue?
> 
> --
> 
> Lars Ortegren
> 
> President
> 
> California Solar Electric Company
> 
> .PO Box 480
> 
> 149 E.Main St
> 
> Grass Valley, CA 95945
> 
> Phone : (530)274-3671 Fax: (530)274-7518
> 
>  California C-10 Electical Contractor #779624
> 
> Certified NABCEP Continuing Education Provider
> 
> Certified NAPCEP Technical Sales and Installation Profesional 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo

[Solar]

I have them on my system at home and on a system at a local community college. 
I like the data available from the system. My system had shade issues so I like 
the idea of them with issues suck as mine. 

I mounted the gateway device in the attic bellow the array instead of outside 
at the array.  

I'd use them again. 

Jesse Dahl
RE-Power LLC
www.repowermn.com

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 6, 2014, at 7:48 PM, Dana Brandt  wrote:
> 
> We haven't used any of these yet but I'm considering it. Anyone have any 
> experience they can share? 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dana
> 
> Dana Brandt
> Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC
> www.ecotechenergy.com
> d...@ecotechenergy.com
> 360.318.7646
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Uni-Solar, Kaneka.now Panasonic?

[Solar]

Can anyone point to data that compares module construction and it's ability to 
dissipate heat?  

I've installed many silicon energy (glass on glass) modules and when doing so 
in the summer it's been hard to touch them due to the glass being so hot.  The 
other manufacturer here in MN (TenK) uses an aluminum back and they claim this 
dissipates heat better them typical module construction.  

For a test last summer I installed a few silicon energy modules with Tigos. I 
never saw their 190W module produce over 154W (tilt of 35 degrees, straight 
south) not exactly scientific, but thought the glass on glass construction 
might be at work. 

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 14, 2014, at 12:24 PM, Exeltech  wrote:
> 
> Larry,
> 
> As August pointed out, there are too many variables related to PV performance 
> to focus on just one and call it "good".  He's right on target.
> 
> For a very simplistic example...
> 
> One aspect of PV performance relates to cell temperature, which in turn is 
> affected by the NOCT rating of the PV.  NOCT ("nominal operating cell 
> temperature" is an indicator of a PV module's ability to dissipate unwanted 
> heat.  Higher values of NOCT indicate a module that will have hotter cells 
> than PV with a lower value for NOCT (all other things being equal).
> 
> Let's say you're comparing two PV that have similar temperature coefficients, 
> but different values for the NOCT.
> 
> PV 'A' has a slightly worse temperature coefficient, but a lower NOCT than PV 
> 'B'.
> 
> On paper, looking only at the temperature coefficient, it would appear PV 'B" 
> would outperform PV 'A'.
> 
> However, in this example, PV 'A' would be operating at a lower cell 
> temperature due to its superior ability to dissipate heat.  The ultimate cell 
> temperatures of PV 'A' may be sufficiently cooler than PV 'B" to allow it to 
> equal or even slightly outperform PV 'B".
> 
> Incidentally, NOCT is measured and reported by the NRTL during certification. 
>  The manufacturer simply prints this value in their PV specs.
> 
> 
> As with anything .. your mileage
> 
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> On Fri, 3/14/14, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems 
>  wrote:
> 
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Uni-Solar, Kaneka…now Panasonic?
> To: "RE-wrenches" 
> Date: Friday, March 14, 2014, 10:33 AM
> 
> Wrenches,
> 
> What high performance PV modules are being sold in the US? I can't find 
> Panasonic modules anymore. I have written to them twice but they can't direct 
> me to any distribution in the US. They insist that Sunwize will have them but 
> Sunwize says they have no plans yet to purchase again.
> 
> From what I can tell, the next best thing is Sunpower modules with -0.38% /K 
> temp coefficient. Are there any others to consider?
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> 
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[RE-wrenches] Battery cable crimper

[Solar]

Hello all,

I am looking for recommendations for a battery cable crimper.  I'd love to get 
one with the dies built in, but the ones I've looked at are only for non-fine 
strand wire.  

Suggestions?

Thanks!

Jesse






Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery cable crimper

[Solar]

I'd love a battery crimper, but a little out of my price range. 

I think a hand crimper will do. 

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 30, 2014, at 1:42 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> hydraulic or long handle bog difference in price
> 
>> On Apr 30, 2014 8:32 AM, "Solar"  wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> I am looking for recommendations for a battery cable crimper.  I'd love to 
>> get one with the dies built in, but the ones I've looked at are only for 
>> non-fine strand wire.
>> 
>> Suggestions?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Jesse
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery cable crimper

[Solar]

From what I'm hearing I think may go with a hammer crimper. Being able to crimp 
in a box might be handy, but it sounds like the quality of the crimps produced 
by the  hammer crimper is where it's at. 

Maybe a hammer and a long handle?! 

Thanks!


Jesse
RE-Power 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 1, 2014, at 1:08 AM, Ray Walters  wrote:
> 
> Here's all the battery lug crimpers I tried over the years in order of the 
> best to worst connections they produced:
> 
> Yes, believe it or not: the venerable Hammer crimper makes excellent 
> connections.  Its also Cheap, but its Slow, cumbersome, and can't be used in 
> a J box.
> The V and indent connection with the thin wall lugs makes the ideal battery 
> and DC connections.  They look just like the crimps from Outback, Trace, 
> Midnite,etc.  I've cut them open on a band saw, and the fine strands are 
> practically fused together into an almost solid cross section of copper with 
> no voids, but no tearing of strands at the edges either.
> This crimper goes out on most jobs, as it fits in the bottom of the tool box.
> 
> The Greenlee indentor crimper makes the same V  crimp connection as the 
> hammer crimper, but is faster, and can be used up in a j box.  More 
> expensive, and adjuster readings can't be counted on.  I tighten the adjuster 
> until I can just pull the handle down with putting some body weight into it, 
> but not so much that I'm standing on it or straining the tool.  Depending on 
> the cable and lug combination, the setting may be 2 sizes smaller with thin 
> wall lugs.
> Overall, this is what we use most of the time.  I found that this set in a 
> drill vice makes a good bench crimper, when you need to do a batch of battery 
> jumpers.
> 
> 
> I used this one for many years, also a V crimper, but has different dies.  
> Crimp quality was not as good, as the dies tore into the lug some.  Also 
> changing the dies took time, and we once lost one of the dies, and it took 
> months to get a replacement.  Not adjustable for different lug and cable 
> combos.
> 
> 
> The "UL" Hex type crimper that you will find at regular electrical supply 
> houses.  Quite expensive, but I am not a fan.  The dies bend slightly under 
> pressure and so the hex crimps are not aligned with each other.  The dies 
> tear the lugs, leaving sharp edges that can tear heat shrink, and there is no 
> adjustment available to account for different cable and lug combinations.  
> We have  X flex from Cobra, MTW from Quick Cable, and some DLO from another 
> supplier.  All are UL listed 4/0 and all somewhat different in diam. and how 
> the strands crush.  I have had a connection failure with this tool, and 
> cutting through a cross section of the lug was not as solid a crimp as the V 
> type.  I removed this tool from our shop, to avoid mistakes.
> I'm sure with regular Class B stranded THHN, and the heavy wall,   color 
> coded lugs, that this is a good tool, but for battery connections, it does 
> not work as well with thin wall lugs.
> Finally, I do not recommend the heavy wall, long barrel lugs on batteries.  
> The square lug end is just too big and thick, and can't bolt to battery 
> terminals in some cases.  We have had to grind away a corner for instance to 
> have the heavy wall lugs land on an battery Flag terminal.  
> The heavy terminals some what negate the advantages of flex cable in the 
> first place.
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 4/30/2014 7:33 PM, Solar wrote:
>> I'd love a battery crimper, but a little out of my price range. 
>> 
>> I think a hand crimper will do. 
>> 
>> Jesse
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Apr 30, 2014, at 1:42 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
>> 
>>> hydraulic or long handle bog difference in price
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 30, 2014 8:32 AM, "Solar"  wrote:
>>>> Hello all,
>>>> 
>>>> I am looking for recommendations for a battery cable crimper.  I'd love to 
>>>> get one with the dies built in, but the ones I've looked at are only for 
>>>> non-fine strand wire.
>>>> 
>>>> Suggestions?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> Jesse
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
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>>>> 
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[RE-wrenches] Solarups by Trace

[Solar]

Hello,

I ran across a system using a "Solarups" by Trace (black and white) I'm looking 
for a manual for the system and didn't have much luck on-line or in the 
archive. 

Anyone have a copy or a link to where I can locate one? I'd like to look at 
wiring and grid-tie option if it exists. 

Thanks as always!

Jesse
218-235-0167
RE-Power LLC

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Lumos LSX250 modules

[Solar]

Silicon energy has a similar product. I've used the suction cup with their 
product. The one thing I head about the lumos module is to be careful when 
bolting the module down. A friend of mine cracked one when he tightened it 
down. He said lumos was good on replacing the broken one by just charging cost 
for a replacement. 

Jesse



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 12, 2014, at 2:55 PM, "frenergy"  wrote:
> 
> Hey Chris,
>  
> Sorry I can't help.  I'm sure you've already researched this and I 
> certainly see where you're coming from concerning the snow's effect on PV 
> frames but is too much strength lost being frameless?  Their data sheet says 
> the "static load is 50 psf, pretty low for snow country, on the other hand 
> would snow stay on the array?...it looks like an ice skating rink when 
> installed.  Maybe get a look-see at Intersolar. You've got me curious also.
>  
>
>  
> Bill
>  
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Taylorsville
> - Original Message -
> From: Chris Worcester
> To: 'RE-wrenches'
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 12:12 PM
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lumos LSX250 modules
> 
> Hello Fellow Wrenches,
> I’m interested in using the Lumos frameless LSX250 Series 250 watt modules on 
> an upcoming project. It’s a 9:12 pitch in deep snow country, and I like not 
> having a frame to worry about getting scrubbed off.
> I can see that wire management will be an issue upfront although their LSX 
> rail system does provide for some of that. We are coupling these with Enphase 
> M250 micro inverters, another wire management issue.  
> We do have a set of 4 glass suction cups to be able to put a handle on them. 
> What else??
> They say their Canadian, with an office in Boulder, Co.
> I am wondering if there are others installing these and what experiences, 
> along with the pro’s and con’s are in advance, thanks!
>  
> Chris Worcester
> Solar Wind Works
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
> Office 530-582-4503
> Cell 530-448-9692
> Fax 530-582-4603
> www.solarwindworks.com
> ch...@solarwindworks.com
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Lumos LSX250 modules

[Solar]

This is the brand I have. I have used them for silicon energy modules as well.  
My old man is a carpenter and does a lot of commercial entrance doors and 
commercial window setting he has a different brand, but he uses 8" suction as 
well. 

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/16371733379128622882?q=vacuum+suction+cups&client=safari&hl=en&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.69411363,d.aWw,pv.xjs.s.en_US.SU4soCeLflY.O&biw=768&bih=928&tch=1&ech=1&psi=jLWjU4zHAcmHyAS9-IHYBg.1403237774875.3&sa=X&ei=j7WjU4-PFs-ryATsv4DwCg&ved=0CJgDEPMCMBQ

I know some come with less than sufficient handle construction so I looked for 
metallic type handles when I bought mine. 

Good luck!

Jesse
 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 19, 2014, at 11:05 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> To those who have used the suction cups to help with handling these mods, did 
> you purchase or rent the suction cups?  
> Any insights to share regarding your choices?
> 
> I have a 19kw vertical wall install coming up in a couple weeks. 
> 
> benn
> 
>> On Jun 13, 2014, at 1:42 PM, Corey Shalanski  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Chris,
>> 
>> We have done a few Lumos projects down here in the Gulf South, where snow 
>> removal is not an issue. Please see attached for an example rooftop 
>> installation - these modules definitely end up looking pretty "slick".
>> ᐧ
>> 
>> I would echo August's comment about the rail alignment. The module mounting 
>> holes allow for a bit of wiggle room, enough to square up any off-kilter 
>> modules but not enough to make up for misaligned/non-parallel rails. I would 
>> also highly recommend the slotted rails (don't know if the non-slotted rails 
>> are even still an option).
>> 
>> As you pointed out wire management is simplified with their rails. Wires 
>> running perpendicular to the rails can be accommodated by removing one or 
>> more of the rubber bumpers to create a gap between the module and rail. We 
>> have also used suction cups to assist in lifting these modules to the roof - 
>> at 60 pounds apiece they are noticeably heavier that most of other modules 
>> we deal with.
>> 
>> --
>> Corey Shalanski
>> Joule Energy
>> New Orleans, LA
>> 
>> 
>>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 12:38 PM, 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 13:34:44 -0700
>>> From: August Goers 
>>> To: RE-wrenches 
>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lumos LSX250 modules
>>> Message-ID: <0159cb59674b658f52fe85632f56b...@mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> 
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> We have a complex 86 kW commercial job with Lumos 250s we?ve just kicked
>>> off. We have not installed them yet so I can?t offer a whole lot of advice
>>> except that the module leads won?t reach each other in landscape
>>> orientation so I?d recommend a standard portrait layout. The rails also
>>> need to line up perfectly since the modules mount with the four
>>> through-holes.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> We will be landing our panels in about 3 weeks so I should know more then,
>>> feel free to ping me if you haven?t made your decision yet.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> August
>>> 
>>> Luminalt
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] No toxic sealant

[Solar]

What fastener are you using? Could you just use an EJOT type lag and skip 
sealant? 

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 26, 2014, at 3:07 PM, Drake  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Wrenches,
> 
> We are planning to install on a metal roof that rain water will be collected 
> from. Usually we use butyl tape and a butyl base caulk to seal around the 
> L-Feet. Is there a good method that would not require using toxic material to 
> seal the feet on a metal roof. 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Drake 
> 
> Drake Chamberlin
> Athens Electric LLC
> OH License 44810
> CO License 3773
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV 
> 740-448-7328
> http://athens-electric.com/
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] ground mounted systems

[Solar]

William Miller has some nice ideas on his website regarding protecting 
circuits. I've used his ideas on one project and the inspector liked it. 

Silicon Energy makes a module with raceways for output circuits. Their module 
is expensive comparatively speaking and I've never seen one of their 190W 
modules produce over 155W (using Tigos to monitor) they've also had some 
delimitation problems with modules made here in MN and one of my Silicon Energy 
systems has two modules with the glass shattered on it that I discovered today. 
 

Jesse Dahl

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2014, at 5:11 PM, Robert Evans  wrote:
> 
> I have been using this product:
> 
> www.solarscrim.com
> 
> Its inexpensive, easy to install, and the inspectors in Santa Cruz county 
> like it.
> 
> I use the under array version just to cover the conductors. 
> Bob Evans
> Evans Energy Systems
> Santa Cruz, CA
> 831-345-3459
> 
>> On Aug 8, 2014 2:50 PM,  wrote:
>> GROUND MOUNTED SYSTEMS NEC 690.31 REQUIRING FENCING OR SOMETHING TO PREVENT 
>> THE VILLAGE IDIOT FROM PLAYING WITH THE PV source and output conductor 
>> circuits . Besides fencing what raceways or guarding passes code and what 
>> manufacturers have a raceway , etc . to provide physical protection and 
>> reduce electrical hazards . Will an PV electric fence charger A SINGLE 
>> WIRE  suffice , or does a moat with alligators suffice , or a standard fence 
>> without barb concertina wire qualify . Where is the height code for fences ? 
>> Gator Tom
>> 
>> Tom Lane
>> Energy Conservation Services
>> 352.377.8866 (office)
>> 352.231.3495 (direct)
>> www.ecs-solar.com 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] ground mounted systems

[Solar]

I saw a couple US Solar Mounts at the energy fair in WI this summer. I really 
liked their setup. I forgot about them. They do have wire management. 

Jesse 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2014, at 6:48 PM, "RE Ellison"  wrote:
> 
> Look into US Solar Mounts, Eric has built in wire management and some real 
> nice looking racks. I have been watching make constant improvements every 
> year for quite a while.
>  
> Before his racks I thought DPW was the best we could get, These look tougher 
> and the wire management is real slick.
> Look close at some of the touches and it is impressive.
>  
> Bob Ellison
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of t...@ecs-solar.com
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2014 2:14 PM
> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] ground mounted systems
>  
> GROUND MOUNTED SYSTEMS NEC 690.31 REQUIRING FENCING OR SOMETHING TO PREVENT 
> THE VILLAGE IDIOT FROM PLAYING WITH THE PV source and output conductor 
> circuits . Besides fencing what raceways or guarding passes code and what 
> manufacturers have a raceway , etc . to provide physical protection and 
> reduce electrical hazards . Will an PV electric fence charger A SINGLE 
> WIRE  suffice , or does a moat with alligators suffice , or a standard fence 
> without barb concertina wire qualify . Where is the height code for fences ? 
> Gator Tom
>  
> Tom Lane
> Energy Conservation Services
> 352.377.8866 (office)
> 352.231.3495 (direct)
> www.ecs-solar.com 
> 
>  
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4744 / Virus Database: 3986/8000 - Release Date: 08/07/14
> No virus found in this message.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverters Maximum Input Ratings

[Solar]

This is something I think about regularly.  I guess I don't have a good answer. 
I will be interested to hear what the more veteran installers have to say.  My 
climate (-50F regularly during the winter) is much different than yours 
however.  

To add to the question, how does climate change your answer, or does it?



Jesse 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 25, 2014, at 6:40 PM, Jason Szumlanski  wrote:
> 
> I had a tough customer recently that grilled me on how we can put a 270W 
> solar module on a 215W inverter. Fortunately, Enphase has a wonderful white 
> paper on the subject. However, it got me thinking... Enphase has demonstrated 
> that higher output panels in many climates (hot SW Florida included) can 
> benefit from modules that far exceed the inverter rating, and even exceed the 
> inverter's "recommended input" rating. Enphase has shown that 270W+ modules 
> can show energy harvest on the M215 where it makes sense to "oversize" the 
> module.
> 
> I also received a similar query from a rather uninformed plan reviewer in an 
> area AHJ along similar lines. Fortunately I was within the "recommended 
> input" rating on the spec sheet of 270W with a 265W module, but I wonder what 
> would happen if I had paired the M215 with a 280W module on my plans, which 
> are becoming readily available now in 60 cell modules with 300W modules on 
> the near horizon. I'm pretty sure my plan would have been kicked back for 
> exceeding the manufacturer's recommendation.
> 
> My question, which applies to string inverters and microinverters, is how 
> much is too much, what would happen if you paired an array that far exceeded 
> the rating, and how do inverter manufacturers determine the recommended 
> and/or maximum rating of the connected module or array? Also, why do some 
> manufacturers have a simple recommendation while others have a "maximum" 
> rating?
> 
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> ​Fafco Solar​
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid-tie inverter for wind generator

[Solar]

At the community college I teach at we hooked an old M-190 micro to a bergy 1kW 
wind machine. It's be producing for years now, only 190W but it works. It does 
over voltage the inverter sometimes. But it always comes back online. If 
someone smart could figure a way to parallel more micros

Jesse
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 6, 2014, at 1:29 PM, "Chris Daum"  wrote:
> 
> Already figured that out (oh yeah, and he is cheap besides!)
>  
> Have a great weekend!
> 
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Larry Crutcher,Starlight Solar Power Systems
> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2014 10:17 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid-tie inverter for wind generator
> 
> Chris,
> 
> I would not touch that with a..….20 foot pole. It will never work right and 
> he will assign you the blame when he sees his electric bill go down by $1 per 
> month.
> 
> Larry
> 
> On Sep 5, 2014, at 9:42 AM, Chris Daum  wrote:
> 
> One killowatt, and three wire.  He's been using it with some heating elements 
> as a dump load, to make hot water.  And he just sent me a picture -- heck, 
> it's on something like a 20 ft. pole, so no wonder it's not making much 
> power!  Also he doesn't want to spend a lot of money, so I suspect the Aurora 
> (which would be a pretty good deal) will still be too costly for him.
>  
> His machine's output is put through rectifiers to make the battery voltage. 
>  
> --Chris @ the Oasis Montana
> 
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[RE-wrenches] Watsun problem

[Solar]

Hello,

I am having an issue with a Watsun dual axis tracker. It is a 24VDC model, run 
of a battery bank that is charged through an outback inverters connection to 
the grid. So the battery voltage is always at 24V. The tracker will run fine 
for a couple days then it will get stuck in the east facing direction. I can 
make it track by switching the control box to "Manual Control Mode" and then 
moving the array in any direction for a second or two and then switching it 
back to "Automatic Control Mode". It will then track for a couple days and get 
stuck in the east direction again. 

Everything is greased regularly, and the voltage at the motors is always where 
it needs to be. I haven't noticed anything binding the tracker in the east 
direction and it seems like to sensor is fine because it tracks after I use the 
steps I described above to move it. 

Any thoughts?

Thanks as always,

Jesse  

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Conduit supports on sloped composite shingle roofs

[Solar]

I always use the quickmount conduit flashing. It doesn't give a lot of room 
between the roof and raceway however.  Maybe the foam block supports typically 
used for raceways on flat rubber roofs?

Jesse 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 22, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Chris Mason  wrote:
> 
> I'm curious what methods people are using to mount, flash and stand-off 
> conduit from the comp. shingle roofs. We don't do a lot of shingle, mostly 
> metal and concrete, so we are less that familiar with the options. We used 
> SnapNRack flashed mounts for the rail system, but they need a rafter under 
> them and the conduit run will not be above rafters.
> As it is very hot here, I want to get some air between the conduit and the 
> roof.
> 
> -- 
> Chris Mason
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
> Solar Design Engineer
> Generac Generators Industrial technician
> 
> www.cometsolar.com
> 264.235.5670
> 869.662.5670
> Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Watsun problem

[Solar]

Thanks for the reply. 

I didn't see any spots in the control box that make me question it. I will say 
that when it was installed the circuit board had to be sent back because a few 
of the solder spots on the back of the circuit board were not smoothed out and 
then had pierced wires causing the fuse in the supply circuit to blow.

No lighting activity lately, but I didn't look and the limit switch. 

Keep them coming!

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 22, 2014, at 11:53 AM, Glenn Burt  wrote:
> 
> Any sign of electronics failure in the controller box?
> Recent lightning activity in close proximity?
> How about a dead spot in the limit switch, or limit switch inoperable?
> From: Solar
> Sent: ‎9/‎22/‎2014 12:30
> To: Wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Watsun problem
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am having an issue with a Watsun dual axis tracker. It is a 24VDC model, 
> run of a battery bank that is charged through an outback inverters connection 
> to the grid. So the battery voltage is always at 24V. The tracker will run 
> fine for a couple days then it will get stuck in the east facing direction. I 
> can make it track by switching the control box to "Manual Control Mode" and 
> then moving the array in any direction for a second or two and then switching 
> it back to "Automatic Control Mode". It will then track for a couple days and 
> get stuck in the east direction again. 
> 
> Everything is greased regularly, and the voltage at the motors is always 
> where it needs to be. I haven't noticed anything binding the tracker in the 
> east direction and it seems like to sensor is fine because it tracks after I 
> use the steps I described above to move it. 
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks as always,
> 
> Jesse  
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Watsun problem

[Solar]

I called a few months ago and talked to them about it, I checked all the things 
they mentioned. The limit switch wasn't mentioned. 

Jesse

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 22, 2014, at 12:07 PM, jay peltz  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jesse
> 
> I've always found the tech support at Array tech to be really good
> I'd call them. 
> 
> Jay
> 
> Peltz power
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 22, 2014, at 9:30 AM, Solar  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I am having an issue with a Watsun dual axis tracker. It is a 24VDC model, 
>> run of a battery bank that is charged through an outback inverters 
>> connection to the grid. So the battery voltage is always at 24V. The tracker 
>> will run fine for a couple days then it will get stuck in the east facing 
>> direction. I can make it track by switching the control box to "Manual 
>> Control Mode" and then moving the array in any direction for a second or two 
>> and then switching it back to "Automatic Control Mode". It will then track 
>> for a couple days and get stuck in the east direction again. 
>> 
>> Everything is greased regularly, and the voltage at the motors is always 
>> where it needs to be. I haven't noticed anything binding the tracker in the 
>> east direction and it seems like to sensor is fine because it tracks after I 
>> use the steps I described above to move it. 
>> 
>> Any thoughts?
>> 
>> Thanks as always,
>> 
>> Jesse  
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Watsun problem

[Solar]

Free would be good, we did have to pay to have it fixed the first time. 

Jesse

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 22, 2014, at 9:22 PM, "William Miller"  wrote:
> 
> Friends:
> 
> I will ratify what Jay says below.  Unfortunately, in my experience the
> controllers are a bit too fragile and I have needed tech support too often.
> I suspect your controller is failing.  Wattsun will likely fix it for free,
> you just have to provide the removal, shipping and reinstallation.
> 
> William
> 
> 
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com
> 805-438-5600
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of jay peltz
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 10:07 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Watsun problem
> 
> Hi Jesse
> 
> I've always found the tech support at Array tech to be really good I'd call
> them. 
> 
> Jay
> 
> Peltz power
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 22, 2014, at 9:30 AM, Solar  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I am having an issue with a Watsun dual axis tracker. It is a 24VDC model,
> run of a battery bank that is charged through an outback inverters
> connection to the grid. So the battery voltage is always at 24V. The tracker
> will run fine for a couple days then it will get stuck in the east facing
> direction. I can make it track by switching the control box to "Manual
> Control Mode" and then moving the array in any direction for a second or two
> and then switching it back to "Automatic Control Mode". It will then track
> for a couple days and get stuck in the east direction again. 
>> 
>> Everything is greased regularly, and the voltage at the motors is always
> where it needs to be. I haven't noticed anything binding the tracker in the
> east direction and it seems like to sensor is fine because it tracks after I
> use the steps I described above to move it. 
>> 
>> Any thoughts?
>> 
>> Thanks as always,
>> 
>> Jesse
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wire management devices

[Solar]

Have you looked in to racking made by US Solarmounts in WI? 

http://www.ussolarmounts.us

Their ground mounts are pretty nice and offer actual conductor protection.  
I've never used them, but I've seen them at the MREA in WI. Nice product. 

Jesse

RE-Power LLC


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Christopher Warfel 
>  wrote:
> 
> I looked through the archives and saw that this was a topic a few years back. 
>  I am looking for ground mounted wire management equipment that actually does 
> something other than just support conductors.   I know several quality 
> assurance program inspectors want to see ground mounted conductors 
> inaccessible, and how inaccessible is determined is a pretty big hole.  I am 
> wondering if anyone has used a system that seems to be accepted.  Thank you, 
> Chris
> 
> -- 
> Christopher Warfel, President
> ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
> 401-466-8978
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Looking for Solar World SW 275 Protect

[Solar]

Did they give a reason why they won't be making them anymore this year?

Jesse 

RE-Power

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 17, 2014, at 4:16 PM, Kristopher Schmid  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> If anyone happens to have one SolarWorld SW 275 Protect glass on glass module 
> available, please contact me off-list.  I am one short and am told that they 
> will not be making any more this year.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -- 
> Shine On!
> 
> Kris Schmid
> Legacy Solar, LLC
> 864 Clam Falls Trail
> Frederic, WI 54837
> www.legacysolar.com
> 715-653-4295
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
> Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
> BSEE
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Re: [RE-wrenches] warranty exclusions

[Solar]

Rebecca,

Thinking about the shading exclusion of the warranty and reading it for myself 
I would say that this module should never be installed where it may be shaded 
at all. Your point about "what is excessive?" is well put. If this company gets 
to decide what excessive is I would stay away. That is my plan.

Jesse 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 25, 2014, at 2:24 PM, Rebecca Lundberg 
>  wrote:
> 
> Recent​ experiences with​ field failures as well as new manufacturers (with 
> no​ prior​ experience) coming to town because of a local incentive have made 
> me look more closely at the manufacturer's printed warranties. I am curious 
> what you think of these two warranty exclusions --
> 
> ​(​Excerpt from ​a module manufacturer's ​warranty quoted here:​)​
> 
> "  The Limited Warranties do not apply to any of the following:
> 
> - Damage caused by nonuniform sunlight on the PV modules produced by 
> artificially concentrating sunlight or excessive shading of the PV modules.
> 
> - Product which has been moved from its original place of installation 
> (including but not limited to any installation, application, repair, 
> servicing, or temporary removal) by any party not authorized in writing by  
> ...  "  (manufacturer's name removed)
> 
> ​(​End of quote.​)​
> 
> In the first item above I ​understand the part about concentrating sunlight, 
> but the product is not warrantied if the manufacturer deems the site 
> unsuitable because of shading? Of course we try to put modules in full sun, 
> but what is excessive? Shading from a dormer? A higher roof shading a lower 
> roof part of the day? Uneven snowshed? (This would also stress bipass diodes, 
> but is of course out of our control)
> 
> The second item would imply that removing and reinstalling the array for a 
> re-roof would void warranty unless we got an authorization in writing from 
> the manufacturer? Not that the manufacturer would necessarily know, but 
> still. Do these seem odd to you? 
> 
> Keep Shining!
> Rebecca Lundberg
> Powerfully Green
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar cooker plans request

[Solar]

I don't have a link but the MREA in WI does cool stuff with Solar Cookers. 
Their site might have something. 

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 12, 2015, at 1:54 AM, Allan Sindelar  wrote:
> 
> Wrenches,
> Our closest rural neighbor spends part of each year in Guatemala. She emailed 
> me a request:
> I have a friend who can help me construct a solar oven or cooker if we can 
> find good plans.  Illustrations are the most important.  I have access to 
> pine lumber, glass, but nothing too technologically advanced.
> I also want to buy panels when I get back to NM to install on my home 
> here.  I have an electrician friend with experience here.
> Any help is greatly appreciated
> This is a bit off of our usual topics, but still consistent with RE. Can 
> anyone send a good web link or other resource that meets this request? I will 
> forward it on.
> Thanks, Allan
> -- 
> Allan Sindelar
> al...@sindelarsolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> 505 780-2738 cell
> 
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Design Class Recommendations

[Solar]

Check with the MREA in Wisconsin. Not sure if they have a class that fits with 
what you are looking for but they are good people over there and do some 
excellent training. 

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2015, at 11:06 PM, Bill Hoffer  wrote:
> 
> Howie
> 
> I am biased to SEI. Full disclosure I do teach for them.  Great instructors 
> and a solid curriculum.  Options for online, in person and hands on.  Great 
> thing about SEI is most instructors are part time teachers working full time 
> in the industry, so students get a good industry perspective.  Reference 
> material alone is worth taking the online...I use it in my work on a regular 
> basis.   Great Alumni network too!  SEI rocks!
> 
> Bill
> 
>> On May 26, 2015 8:25 PM, "Howie Michaelson"  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> We are hiring a new person to begin to take on generating our residential
>> installation packets for the field crews. We looked for someone with
>> experience, but have had to go with someone with lots of PV field project
>> management experience, reasonably good computer program skills, but not a
>> great deal of understanding of Code and equipment choices. We are looking
>> for some course work that will help shorten the learning curve and
>> teaching burden.  I found several potential classes, but any
>> recommendations for either online courses or intensive live classes would
>> be very appreciated. Cost is less of a concern than finding something that
>> is effective and efficient.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Howie
>> --
>> Howie Michaelson
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™
>> 
>> Catamount Solar, LLC
>> Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
>> VT Solar Electric & Hot Water Incentive Partner
>> http://www.CatamountSolar.com
>> 802-272-0004
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solectria PVI Series inverter problems

[Solar]

I haven't used the PVI so I can't comment on the mounting issue but my past 
experience with Solectria and tech support was similar to yours. 

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2015, at 6:19 PM, "William Miller" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Friends:
>  
> We have just begun using the Solectria PVI series inverter.  I fear these 
> inverters may fall off the wall.  There is no positive way of attaching the 
> inverter to the bracket, it just rests on there by the grace of gravity.  The 
> bracket is very narrow, about 4 inches wide, and the height of the inverter 
> presents a lot of leverage on this small bracket.  The electronics sections 
> is seperateable from the connection box, but the connection box will then be 
> left floating in the air, suspended only by the conduits.
>  
> Point 2:  The manual indicates the inverter needs to be mounted on 
> “non-flammable” surfaces.  This makes me wonder how hot the inverter gets?  
> This limits mounting options:  you can’t mount them on wood siding and you 
> can’t use plywood to span studs.
>  
> Point 3:  There are also some problems with the manual.  I have detailed all 
> of these problems in a web page called, “What’s wrong with the Solectria PVI 
> Series?”  The link is:
>  
> http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/Solectria/Solectria.html
>  
> I contacted Solectria about these problems and all I get are promises.
>  
> I am curious:  Does anyone else feel that this mounting system is inadequate? 
>  Unfortunately, we started using these just after we attended a seminar 
> presented by Solectria.  I was not able to ask them in person why the PVI 
> series inverter has such an inadequate mounting system. 
>  
> If anyone else has complaints about the Solectria, I’d like to hear them.  I 
> am real close to banning them from our inventory until these problems are 
> resolved.  If there are other problems I have not encountered, I want to 
> factor that in to my decisions.
>  
> Thanks in advance,
>  
> William
>  
> PS:  Point 4:  Just to get all of my complaints in one place, tech support is 
> pretty marginal with Solectria.  A few weeks ago I called and the tech 
> support person did not have access to any of the manuals!  I have called them 
> for 4 weeks now and have not received one call back.  I called again just now 
> and waited on hold for several minutes, only to be presented with a recording 
> to leave a message.  This is pretty bad in itself, but then the mail box was 
> full and would not accept my message!?  This is not the indication of a 
> well-founded company.
>  
> William
>  
>  
>  
> 
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com
> 805-438-5600
>  
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[RE-wrenches] Dream system.

[Solar]

Hello all,

I was recently hired to be the full time electrical instructor at a local 
community college. In the second year of the class there is a 6 credit 
"renewable energy and habitat house" course. I have been teaching at this 
college as an adjunct instructor since 2009 teaching for 3 of the 7 local iron 
ore mines,the local paper mill as well as doing most of the NEC code update 
courses. During that time I ran a one year and a 6 month solar PV course. I 
have a fairly nice lab built for the PV course consisting of the following:

2 axis tracker 
Fixed tilt pole mount 
20'x16' mock roof with shingles and metal roofing 
Enphase systems 
(3) 700W SMA inverters
Outback setup
Xantrax 600v 80A charge controller 
Magnum 4024 inverter (AC coupled goal with this) 
Tigos
300W Morningstar on a demo cart
Couple Solectria inverter (not used much)
Trace 4024 (purchased in 99)
Trace DR 1524 that goes along with our 1Kw Bergy 
Multiple battery brands and types AGM and flooded 
Pathfinders
Suneye (2 210s)
600V Solmetric PVA
Racking, quickmounts standoffs, clamps nuts and bolts...


Modules include: 90W sunwize, Solarwolrd 175, REC 215W, silicon energy 190W, 
kyocera 210W, solar frontier 100W (I think 100W) AEE 95W, Dasol 15, 30, 135w. 

Assuming I stay with this job for the next 25 years, which will take me into my 
early 60s and my goal, I will have a yearly budget to spend adding to this lab. 

Here is the question, seeing what we have now what individual pieces would you 
add or what system would you build with the goal of community education or 
training electrical students and electricians. 

Long winded but I am very interested to hear your ideas!

Have a good weekend and thanks!

Jesse



Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Dream system.

[Solar]

All great ideas!! 

We do have S-5 both for racking and the PV kit. To Great point we do cover 
efficiency, passive solar, load shifting... We do have internships with install 
companies and the utilities. We have 5 different racking types and one ballast 
mount for hands on work. We have 4 on campus systems all with different 
monitoring (Tigo, enphase, egauge and SMA) while working on the mock roof we do 
tie off and observe a safety procedure. We also cover OSHA regs as part of 
class and the students get OSHA 10. 

The battery ideas are good too. LION and such are needed for sure along with 
monitoring for those systems. I just did my first solaredge system and I agree 
that is a must. 

We also need some design software. We have the pathfinder and solmetric 
software we use in class and we use PVwatts and those similar to that. 

Much appreciated. I hope to build lab that covers as much as possible for use 
with students and our continuing ed  electrical programs. 

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 31, 2015, at 5:57 PM, Glenn Burt  wrote:
> 
> I would suggest a Solar Edge inverter system, some lithium batteries, an 
> Aqueon battery system, a variety of safety equipment and trying to partner 
> with a local installation firm for site visits, and possibly hands on work.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Glenn Burt
> Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse grammar and typos.
> From: Solar
> Sent: ‎7/‎31/‎2015 17:05
> To: Wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dream system.
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I was recently hired to be the full time electrical instructor at a local 
> community college. In the second year of the class there is a 6 credit 
> "renewable energy and habitat house" course. I have been teaching at this 
> college as an adjunct instructor since 2009 teaching for 3 of the 7 local 
> iron ore mines,the local paper mill as well as doing most of the NEC code 
> update courses. During that time I ran a one year and a 6 month solar PV 
> course. I have a fairly nice lab built for the PV course consisting of the 
> following:
> 
> 2 axis tracker 
> Fixed tilt pole mount 
> 20'x16' mock roof with shingles and metal roofing 
> Enphase systems 
> (3) 700W SMA inverters
> Outback setup
> Xantrax 600v 80A charge controller 
> Magnum 4024 inverter (AC coupled goal with this) 
> Tigos
> 300W Morningstar on a demo cart
> Couple Solectria inverter (not used much)
> Trace 4024 (purchased in 99)
> Trace DR 1524 that goes along with our 1Kw Bergy 
> Multiple battery brands and types AGM and flooded 
> Pathfinders
> Suneye (2 210s)
> 600V Solmetric PVA
> Racking, quickmounts standoffs, clamps nuts and bolts...
> 
> 
> Modules include: 90W sunwize, Solarwolrd 175, REC 215W, silicon energy 190W, 
> kyocera 210W, solar frontier 100W (I think 100W) AEE 95W, Dasol 15, 30, 135w. 
> 
> Assuming I stay with this job for the next 25 years, which will take me into 
> my early 60s and my goal, I will have a yearly budget to spend adding to this 
> lab. 
> 
> Here is the question, seeing what we have now what individual pieces would 
> you add or what system would you build with the goal of community education 
> or training electrical students and electricians. 
> 
> Long winded but I am very interested to hear your ideas!
> 
> Have a good weekend and thanks!
> 
> Jesse
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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[RE-wrenches] co-op rules.

[Solar]

Hello all,

I was at a get together lastnight and was taking to one of the higher ups at my 
electrical co-op. He informed me that effective now they will not allow any 
member to interconnect a renewable energy system that has the potential to 
create more than 50% of their monthly electrical usage. 

Are any of you seeing a similar rule? He told me "everyone is going to this 
now". 

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] co-op rules.

[Solar]

Good point on average numbers. Maybe that's what he meant, it isn't what he 
said. 

When I asked how many members were interconnected and produced over the 50% 
number he said "one". Rules for problems that don't exist. With no rebates 
given by the coops the chances anyone can find it feasible to do something like 
this is 0. Maybe I could since I don't have labor costs, but other than that. 

This coop, of which I am a member, does participate in net metering. Here is a 
link to future of solar here in mn. For the coops at least. 

http://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/06/18/grid-fees

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 1, 2015, at 11:07 AM, "RE Ellison"  wrote:
> 
> What happens in July when most overproduce and in December when we are way
> under production?
> I think if they are talking averages it might be ok but otherwise it is a
> problem.
> 
> Didn't co-op's used to be excluded from net metering anyway?
> 
> Just thinking,
> Bob
> 
> -Original Message-----
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Solar
> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2015 11:48 AM
> To: Wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] co-op rules.
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I was at a get together lastnight and was taking to one of the higher ups at
> my electrical co-op. He informed me that effective now they will not allow
> any member to interconnect a renewable energy system that has the potential
> to create more than 50% of their monthly electrical usage. 
> 
> Are any of you seeing a similar rule? He told me "everyone is going to this
> now". 
> 
> Jesse
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] co-op rules

[Solar]

You thinking IOU I think. The coops are exempt from these rules. 

I was taking to the one of the head cheeses at the coop, who is a friend and 
shall remain nameless. 

Jesse 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 1, 2015, at 1:13 PM, Rebecca Lundberg 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jesse,
> 
> This would be against current MN state law. Who were you talking to?
> 
> They can say whatever they want, but that doesn't make it true. No utilities 
> in MN are exempt from net-metering, and except for when you are trying to 
> access a rare incentive program, you can install up to a 40 kW system with no 
> limitations on size. Many in our local solar industry are working together to 
> make sure utilities don't dissuade customers or try to enforce rules that go 
> beyond what state law allows. The State Dept of Commerce and MnSEIA are 
> compiling many complaints similar to this, so we can work together to combat 
> this sort of thing. I would encourage you to be in communication with both of 
> these entities.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Rebecca Lundberg
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ®
> Owner/President
> Powerfully Green®
> 763.438.1976 | rebecca.lundb...@powerfullygreen.com
> Powered by the Sun!
> 
> 
>> 
>> ------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 10:48:26 -0500
>> From: Solar 
>> To: Wrenches 
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] co-op rules.
>> Message-ID: <245cd51b-1e2a-4835-a4e3-296046f49...@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> I was at a get together lastnight and was taking to one of the higher ups at 
>> my electrical co-op. He informed me that effective now they will not allow 
>> any member to interconnect a renewable energy system that has the potential 
>> to create more than 50% of their monthly electrical usage.
>> 
>> Are any of you seeing a similar rule? He told me "everyone is going to this 
>> now".
>> 
>> Jesse
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Dream system.

[Solar]

That's a great idea. We have buss bar in our parts room. Good lesson on buss 
bar sizing and install. Compare and contrast the two methods. 

Thanks!

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 1, 2015, at 7:07 PM, "Tom at wagonmaker"  wrote:
> 
> Jesse,
>  
> I’d also add a good buss bar connection system for your battery banks, maybe 
> even do one set of series/parallel connections (old way) across the bank and 
> one set of connections with the series strings interconnected through buss 
> bars rather than direct string to string.  Much better battery life that way 
> and the more people that learn to do it with buss bars from the beginning the 
> better.
>  
> Tom Elliot
>  
> From: jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 11:29 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Dream system.
>  
> Hi: 
> 
> I would add, 
> 
> 1. Battery Monitoring with logging capability 
> 2. Remote monitoring and control over the web 
> 3. Lion battery and battery manager, (open format manager circuits so that it 
> can be seen how things work). 
> 4.  GFCI's and ELCI's on AC circuits 
> 5. Generator and automatic generator start controller 
> 
> If you suggestions on specific models, contact me offline 
> 
> JARMO
> _
>  
> 
> Jarmo Venalainen  |  Schneider Electric   |  Xantrex Brand  |   CANADA  |   
> Sales Application Engineer 
> Phone: +604-422-2528  |   Tech Support: 800-670-0707  |   Mobile: 
> +604-505-0291 
> Email: jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com  |   Site: www.Xantrex.com  |  
>  Address: 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 
>  
>   
> 
> 
> 
> *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
> 
> 
> 
> From: Solar 
> To:   Wrenches ,
> Date: 07/31/2015 02:05 PM
> Subject:  [RE-wrenches] Dream system.
> Sent by:  "RE-wrenches" 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I was recently hired to be the full time electrical instructor at a local 
> community college. In the second year of the class there is a 6 credit 
> "renewable energy and habitat house" course. I have been teaching at this 
> college as an adjunct instructor since 2009 teaching for 3 of the 7 local 
> iron ore mines,the local paper mill as well as doing most of the NEC code 
> update courses. During that time I ran a one year and a 6 month solar PV 
> course. I have a fairly nice lab built for the PV course consisting of the 
> following:
> 
> 2 axis tracker 
> Fixed tilt pole mount 
> 20'x16' mock roof with shingles and metal roofing 
> Enphase systems 
> (3) 700W SMA inverters
> Outback setup
> Xantrax 600v 80A charge controller 
> Magnum 4024 inverter (AC coupled goal with this) 
> Tigos
> 300W Morningstar on a demo cart
> Couple Solectria inverter (not used much)
> Trace 4024 (purchased in 99)
> Trace DR 1524 that goes along with our 1Kw Bergy 
> Multiple battery brands and types AGM and flooded 
> Pathfinders
> Suneye (2 210s)
> 600V Solmetric PVA
> Racking, quickmounts standoffs, clamps nuts and bolts...
> 
> 
> Modules include: 90W sunwize, Solarwolrd 175, REC 215W, silicon energy 190W, 
> kyocera 210W, solar frontier 100W (I think 100W) AEE 95W, Dasol 15, 30, 135w. 
> 
> Assuming I stay with this job for the next 25 years, which will take me into 
> my early 60s and my goal, I will have a yearly budget to spend adding to this 
> lab. 
> 
> Here is the question, seeing what we have now what individual pieces would 
> you add or what system would you build with the goal of community education 
> or training electrical students and electricians. 
> 
> Long winded but I am very interested to hear your ideas!
> 
> Have a good weekend and thanks!
> 
> Jesse
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Non-conductive module frames

[Solar]

I am currently doing a lumos project and that is the only mod I can picture 
that comes close to fulfilling your need. We still have alum racking 
however Interesting question though. 

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2015, at 5:22 PM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> Friends:
>  
> I thought I had sent a message about this to the list but I believe not.  My 
> apologies if this is a repeat.
>  
> We have been having trouble with corrosion on an installation on a beachfront 
> residence.  Here is a link to a page I wrote about this problem.
>  
> I am not a metallurgist, but I am thinking the problem is exacerbated by 
> circulating currents.  PV leakage is unavoidable.  The currents will migrate 
> to the metallic frames.  When the frames come into contact with any other 
> energized or bonded metal, electrolysis results.
>  
> Regardless of the exact cause, metal is the affected material.  I am 
> wondering if the best practice would be to eliminate as much as possible any 
> metallic components.  This would mean plastic framed modules and plastic 
> racking. 
>  
> I can source fiberglass strut easily.  What I am looking for is plastic 
> framed PV modules.  Do any of you know of a manufacturer or distributor of 
> such?
>  
> Thanks in advance.
>  
> William
>  
> 
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com
> 805-438-5600
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Digital Hydrometer

[Solar]

A while back I asked about a dream system for my electrical/solar training 
program at the CC I teach at. I think an instrument like the one you linked to 
fits that bill. I sent an email requesting a price quote to the company just 
now.  Checking the price via google seems a touch more expensive than I can 
justify spending but if they can come down slightly for a training institution 
I will purchase one and get back to you on how it works. Typically companies 
give a discount to schools so we shall see. 


Jesse 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2015, at 4:45 PM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> Allan:
>  
> I know this has come up before on the list, but I was hoping someone had 
> gained experience since the last time this was posted.
>  
> I am familiar with the optical refractometers.  We order them by the dozen.  
> I have taken thousands of readings with them.  They have distinct 
> difficulties in application:
>  
> Over the years we have gained more large battery arrays to maintain like this 
> one.  These arrays have lots of cells, up to three strings at 48 volts 
> nominal.  That is 72 cells.  Testing all of these cells every month (and we 
> test that often) is very time consuming.  You have to pull a sample from each 
> battery, apply the sample, flip the cover carefully so as not to spray acid, 
> hold the device up to the eye, note the reading, record the reading on paper, 
> wipe down the instrument with a shop towel (that has ever-increasing 
> toxicity), and then prepare another sample.  I don’t like flipping acid 
> around and putting it near my or my employees eyes.  The display is hard to 
> read with safety glasses.  The display has poor resolution.  The sample 
> easily runs off the glass if you tilt the instrument.  Acid gets on the paper 
> and then vectors into the office.  The entries have to be typed into a 
> permanent record.  All considered, a time consuming and dangerous process.
>  
> I was hoping to hear from someone who actually uses one of the higher end 
> digital units.  It appears no one on this list has.
>  
> William
>  
>  
>  
> 
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com
> 805-438-5600
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Allan Sindelar
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 10:29 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Digital Hydrometer
>  
> William,
> Why bother, when a refractometer is cheaper, does a better job, self-corrects 
> for temperature, and won't be broken when you pull it off of your truck?
> Here's an example, quickly found on eBay, if you're not familiar with these: 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robinair-75240-Coolant-and-Battery-Refractometer-/131591979786?hash=item1ea37e430a&item=131591979786&vxp=mtr
>  
> This has come up before on this list.
> Allan
> 
> Allan Sindelar
> al...@sindelarsolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> 505 780-2738 cell
> 
>  
> On 8/30/2015 5:08 PM, William Miller wrote:
> Friends:
>  
> We are maintaining more vented battery systems.  I am contemplating purchase 
> of a digital hydrometer.  Does anyone have any experience with one of these?
>  
> Thanks in advance,
>  
> William Miller
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo

[Solar]

I've used them a few times and have them on my home due to a small shade issue. 
Like mentioned the monitoring is great, lots of data. Never had a problem with 
any parts. 

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:22 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf  wrote:
> 
> Hola amigos y amigas.
>  
> I’d appreciate feedback on the use of Tigo DC optimizers, specifically with 
> the SMA TL line.
>  
> Any good, bad or ugly stories to share?
>  
> Mahalo,
> marco
>  
> 
> Marco Mangelsdorf, President
> 69 Railroad Avenue, A-7
> Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
> (808) 969-3281, 934-7462 facsimile
> www.provision-solar.com
>  
>  
> 
> 
>   
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
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> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Secure/support PV wire requirements?

[Solar]

Now that I am teaching electrical/solar more than installing electrical/solar I 
am designing labs and systems for education.  As part of my classes I spend 
lots of time discussing wire management and "safe and workman like manner" to 
students with little to no experience in electrical systems. Even these 
students can see the problems with PV wires flung on a roof with little to no 
support. So I've taken a lead from William and I have started installing all of 
our lab systems with cable management like William has shown.  We used PVC to 
support the trunk cables for our enphase pole mount and we use it on both of 
our training roofs. I hope these lessons stay with the students when they leave 
here and enter the workforce. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 9, 2015, at 2:30 PM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> Ben:
>  
> Yes, we do use this technique on roof mount systems as well.  This is true 
> for micro-inverters and string inverters alike.  The PVC holds trunk cables 
> and DC cables alike.
>  
> The attention we pay to detail does add to the cost of our jobs.  The 
> development time adds to the production costs.  The Holy Grail is to develop 
> processes that are quick, efficient and use off-the-shelf components. 
>  
> You know what 1-1/2” PVC costs.  We can mill 500 feet of conduit in an hour, 
> enough for 150 modules.  One person can do it safely, two is quicker.  
> Development is again crucial—we built a jig that guides the conduit and cuts 
> the slot in one pass.  Add stainless cable ties and the total material costs 
> is about $2.50 per module.  The clips are made from the conduit scraps.  The 
> slot is widened with PVC cutters and they clip right on.  This is a very 
> solid method.
>  
> Sure the cost adds to the bottom line, and sure we lose some jobs due to 
> higher costs.  The decision to do what I do is a personal, ethical decision.  
> I have a deep sense of satisfaction in a job well done and in occupying my 
> mind and hands improving my craft.  Marketing is key.  Not everyone can 
> afford a Mercedes but some can.  I need to convince potential clients of the 
> difference between brand Miller and the rest.
>  
> I see the problem as a failure of regulators to insist on safe practices 
> on-par with other branches of the electrical industry (try running 
> unprotected wires to an air-conditioning unit and see if you get away with 
> it). The good news:  the situation is gradually improving.
>  
> Thanks for asking.  These problems and solutions are of great intrigue to me. 
>  I hope others on this list are willing to improve their techniques and that 
> I can help in some way.
>  
> Sincerely,
>  
> William Miller
>  
> By the way, Bill Brooks wrote an article addressing the specific of USE and 
> PV cable management.  I can’t lay my hands on a copy but if anyone is 
> interested and can’t find a copy on-line I will look further in my files.
>  
> Wm
>  
> 
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com
> 805-438-5600
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Benn Kilburn
> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 11:57 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Secure/support PV wire requirements?
>  
> William,
> Are you using this method on roof top systems that are parallel to the roof 
> as well?
> 
> I don't want to bring up the question of what cost this adds to the job 
> but here i am bringing it up!  
> (labour and material, ...measuring & cutting pipe to length, cutting slots 
> and "clips" on table saw, filing cut pipe edges, attaching to rails...)
> There is no doubt that your method shows attention to quality and workmanship 
> however the solar biz is quite competitive and making the decision to use 
> this method and its added costs would surely cost us jobs.  I'm going to 
> assume that you have been able to standardize and refine this method to 
> reduce time and costs?
> 
> All,
> I prefer to keep an assortment of wire management solutions handy on the roof 
> when we are supporting PV and/or micro-inverter wiresthose being; thick 
> nylon cable ties *MUST HAVE metal tooth, NOT plastic tooth* (T&B TY27MX), 
> stainless steel cable ties, and a couple different types of PV cable clips 
> (heyco) that attach to the rail or module frame.  
> 
> Assuming a typical house (shingle) roof top system where bottom of the mod 
> frame rests +-4-6" off the roof surface
> If it is a single row of mods with the j-boxes on the high side, then 
> securing the PV wires can usually be done after the mods are mounted and can 
>

Re: [RE-wrenches] AC house monitoring

[Solar]

We just purchased an eguage system for our lab at the college. I've used them 
many times for MN DNR pv systems I've installed and I really like them. The 
price range won't work what you're looking for however. 

I've looked into "the energy detective" system and they are closer to your 
price range but I've heard some people say they didn't work all that well. 
http://www.theenergydetective.com


Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 11, 2015, at 8:00 PM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> Friends:
> 
> Here are two E-gauge systems--one on my home and one on a commercial client.
> Feel free to browse around.  Theoretically you can't break anything without
> a password
> 
> http://egauge15947.egaug.es/
> 
> http://egauge8265.egaug.es/
> 
> I like the systems.  They are feature rich and consequently a bit difficult
> to learn.  They are very reliable.  YouTube has programming and
> interpretation videos.
> 
> William
> 
> 
> 
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com
> 805-438-5600
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of jay
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 5:17 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC house monitoring
> 
> HI All.
> 
> I’ve been getting a bunch of requests for better monitoring of AC circuits,
> and I want to be able to understand some peoples loads better as well.
> This is for a full house 120v  and  240v And individual circuits.
> I don’t need revenue grade.
> But looking for something that is easy to use, maybe blue tooth app, or
> digital display with memory ( day/week/month would be good) Could be
> internet connected but not a priority.
> 
> I’ve seen some for $40-80.
> 
> There are so many out there I figure someone/s have got some fav’s.
> 
> thanks
> 
> jay
> 
> peltz power
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[RE-wrenches] Silicon energy

[Solar]

Hello,

I just read in the paper that the SiE plant here in MN just got rid of all its 
top management and only has two people left in the plant. It has halted 
manufacturing and doesn't know if it will reopen. Not shocking, it also says 
the plant in WA shut down recently. Any WA wrenches have news from that plant? 



Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Silicon energy

[Solar]

No, they had a batch of the cascades delaminate last year. They were replaced. 
We will see if anymore blow apart after this winter. I only have a few modules 
out there of the old style and they have been installed for 3 years, so as for 
me personally I will be fairly safe. Some contractors had a cozy relationship 
with SiE and have many many modules out there, I hope for their sake the mods 
hold up. I haven't installed any of the newer modules that look very very 
similar to Solarworlds glass on glass. Maybe I can get a few of the newer style 
for my electrical class at a discount now. 

Seems like Outback made a smart move all those years ago.  Without the generous 
incentives these modules just weren't going to make a go of it. We lost 20 good 
IBEW manufacturing jobs at the plant too. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2015, at 5:23 PM, Bill Hoffer  wrote:
> 
> WA Silicon Energy has been shut down for almost a year now, leaving behind a 
> lot of warranty claims for delaminated modules.  Not a pretty picture at all. 
>  Hope you have only the first generation modules, before they went to a 
> thinner lamination..
> 
> Bill
> 
>> On Dec 18, 2015 3:51 PM, "Solar"  wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I just read in the paper that the SiE plant here in MN just got rid of all 
>> its top management and only has two people left in the plant. It has halted 
>> manufacturing and doesn't know if it will reopen. Not shocking, it also says 
>> the plant in WA shut down recently. Any WA wrenches have news from that 
>> plant?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Jesse Dahl
>> 
>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
>> IBEW Local 292 - Electrician
>> Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 2014 NEC 705.22 disconnect for inverter capable of being locked

[Solar]

So an AC disconnect in the inverter output between the inverter and panel or 
utility disconnect if required doesn't work for him or her? The locking 
provision is always in place on a standard AC disconnect. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 5:58 PM, jay  wrote:
> 
> HI August,
> 
> I guess my question is.  
> Are they asking for a lockout AC disconnect on a AC circuit IE from the AC 
> panel?
> or
> are they asking for a lockout from the inverter AC at the inverter?
> 
> thanks
> jay
> 
> peltz power
> 
> 
>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:11 PM, August Goers  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Wrenches,
>>  
>> We have a particular plan checker who wants us to provide a lockable AC 
>> disconnect for our inverter output circuit. His particular issue is that he 
>> wants the locking mechanism to be installed and on site. Here is a little 
>> NEC background info:
>>  
>> 2014 NEC 705.22 Disconnect Device
>> The disconnecting means for ungrounded conductors shall consist of a 
>> manually or power operable switch(es) or circuit breaker(s) with the 
>> following features:
>> (1)Located where readily accessible
>> (2)Externally operable without exposing the operator to contact with 
>> live parts and, if power operable, of a type that could be opened by hand in 
>> the event of a power-supply failure
>> (3)Plainly indicating whether in the open (off) or closed (on) position
>> (4)Having ratings not less than the load to be carried and the fault 
>> current to be interrupted. For disconnect equipment energized from both 
>> sides, a marking shall be provided to indicate that all contacts of the 
>> disconnect equipment might be energized.
>> Informational Note to (4): In parallel generation systems, some equipment, 
>> including knife blade switches and fuses, is likely to be energized from 
>> both directions. See 240.40.
>> (5)Simultaneous disconnect of all ungrounded conductors of the circuit
>> (6)Capable of being locked in the open (off) position
>>  
>> NEC 110.25 Lockable Disconnecting Means:
>> Where a disconnecting means is required to be lockable open elsewhere in 
>> this Code, it shall be capable of being locked in the open position. The 
>> provisions for locking shall remain in place with or without the lock 
>> installed. 
>>  
>> Many times we are using a standard back-fed circuit breaker to comply with 
>> 705.22. Then we can supply a handle padlock attachment such as the one shown 
>> for Square D:
>>  
>> http://static.schneider-electric.us/assets/pdf/retail/QO-and-Homeline-Accessories.pdf
>>  
>> Does anyone else have experience installing these breaker handle padlock 
>> attachments? My concern is whether we can find them for all of the old types 
>> of breakers that we have to deal with. Also, our plan checker is requiring 
>> that this handle padlock attachment accessory is installed at the time of 
>> our inspection. Is anyone else dealing with similar issues?
>>  
>> Best,
>>  
>> August
>> Luminalt
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Winter Battery Maintenance

[Solar]

I do systems like this every year. (-45F winter temps). Use quick connects and 
train the customer on the batteries and their maintenance. Find bats with 
freeze points that match your area. I typically mount the modules at 90degree 
so snow never covers the array/module. 

I always recommend removal. I've thought about temp controlled incandescent 
lamp with a timer in a battery box for really cold nights Haven't got 
around to working through that design. 

I'm interested in the real seasoned off-grid installers thoughts about this. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 30, 2016, at 9:07 AM, AE Solar  wrote:
> 
> Hey Wrenchers,
> 
> A friend wants a very small battery set up at hunting cabin (like under 1kW). 
> It will only be used in the warmer months. I'm wondering what you all 
> recommend for the batteries over the winter. I assume the ideal situation 
> would be that they would be disconnected and brought somewhere warm for the 
> winter (the cabin will be subject to below freezing temps)??
> 
> So long as they go into the colder months with a full charge is it alright to 
> leave them hooked up? I don't think the friend will be savvy enough to 
> disconnect/connect them every year and I don't feel like having to go out 
> there every season for them.
> 
> Thanks for any thoughts.
> Adam
> 
> Adam Katzman
> Autonomous Energies
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Metal Battery Box

[Solar]

I've had boxes made by a local dad shop for places that a pre-made box wouldn't 
fit. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 31, 2016, at 9:08 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Is this an electrical inspector? And is the inspector citing a specific code 
> rule, as per his request? 
> Unless he is enforcing a code rule I don't believe he has any authority to 
> specify the battery box material. 
> Unless he backs up his request with a specific rule then you could 
> respectfully decline and use whatever you wish, as long as it is done 
> properly, and to code. 
> Not that here is anything wrong with metal battery boxes. 
> 
> Benn Kilburn
> SkyFire Energy Inc. 
> 780-906-7807
> 
> 
>> On May 31, 2016, at 11:40 AM, Dave Tedeyan  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All, 
>> 
>> We have a local inspector who is asking us to use metal battery boxes 
>> instead of plastic.
>> 
>> Ideally something that is UL-listed if that even exists, but we were able to 
>> push back on that.
>> 
>> Does anyone have any recommendations for a metal battery box that will hold 
>> 8 or 16 L16 FLA batteries?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Dave Tedeyan
>> Project Engineer
>> 
>> Taitem Engineering, PC
>> 109 S. Albany Street, Ithaca, NY 14850
>> Voice: (607) 277-1118 x121
>> www.taitem.com
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[RE-wrenches] Safety equipment/training

[Solar]

Hello,

My electrical/solar training program has received an equipment grant and along 
with new equipment I want to invest in safety.  We have harness and different 
lanyard/tie points, arc flash suits, insulated tools, eye and ear protection, 
lock out tag out gear but what else in your eyes should a training program be 
using in class to teach safety? The students have OSHA 10 and MSHA training so 
I am looking at jobsite safety not so much theory.   Metal roofs can pose a 
safety challenge and we have a metal roof on one training roof. Battery 
safety

Thanks!

Jesse

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Building strings of modules with variable voltages?

[Solar]

Solmetric has some good screen shots of what happens when you combine these 
modules. My students just did a lab of combining modules (210W and 175W) in 
series and parallel and testing the PVA 600.  In series V add and current drags 
way down to the lowest I value in the series string. The IV curve looks so 
screwy that a MPPT will have a very hard time locating the  MPP. In parallel 
the IV curve looks much more stable. Parralel would be the best way to combine 
different modules. 
I can send some photos of the IV curves if you'd like. 
Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 23, 2016, at 1:17 AM, Dan Fink  wrote:
> 
> Dan; rough-and-tumble world indeed here off the grid! My understanding is 
> that Voc will still be additive, minus degradation over the years, but that 
> the larger Pmax modules will be current limited for Imp by the smaller ones. 
> So your 245w modules could only do 100w in the scenario you give.
> 
> My solution has always been just stick with PWM controllers in these 
> situations.
> 
>> On Jun 22, 2016 10:37 AM, "Daniel Tittmann"  wrote:
>> In the rough and tumble world of off grid system management for people who 
>> have been piecing together systems for years it is not uncommon for our 
>> company to come to a project and find many different types of solar modules. 
>>  In most cases these modules are working fine and producing power but often 
>> have different output profiles.   In an effort to upgrade systems and 
>> increase production I have often had the idea of building string of these 
>> different modules and feeding them into an MPPT controller. 
>> 
>> Can anyone out there explain if this would be a good idea or a bad one? 
>> 
>> Let say we have 
>> 4 x 100 watt 17.5 Vmp modules 
>> 2 x 245 watt 30.5 Vmp modules
>> 
>> what would be the outcome of 2 strings of modules
>> both with: 2 x 100 watt + 1 x 245 watt  
>> would this cause issues with the MPPT controller (say OB FM60) or the 
>> modules? Obviously you need to build strings that will fit the profile of 
>> the controller and not over to the series string rating and voltage 
>> tolerance of the modules but from a production standpoint where does this 
>> land?
>> 
>> thanks for your advice
>> Cheers-
>> Daniel
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Daniel Tittmann 
>> CTO
>> Greenwired
>> www.greenwired.com
>> dan...@greenwired.com
>> 707-923-2001 (office)
>> 707-206-5088 (Cell)
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Buried Conductors

[Solar]

Not sure about the rest but under ground conductors are considered a wet 
location. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 23, 2016, at 3:41 PM, Peter Parrish  
> wrote:
> 
> I am working with a customer who is doing a complete remodel, and upgrading 
> to PV and Smart Energy Storage. The house was broken down to floor joists, 
> open studded walls and open roof rafters.
>  
> The client wanted a 8 kW/16 kWh Smart Energy Storage system and a 10 kW-ac PV 
> system. The Main panel, the Critical Load sub-panel, the Energy Storage 
> system and the PV inverters will all be either in a detached garage or hung 
> on the west facing exterior wall of the detached garage.
>  
> We have been given a number of 1-1/2” PVC conduits, buried a minimum of 18”,  
> that run between the main house and the detached garage, so we have to convey 
> 2/3rds of the PV source circuits and all of the critical load branch circuits 
> using this conduit. This raises a number of questions/confirmations:
>  
> (1)We cannot mix PV source circuits and critical load branch circuits in 
> the same conduit. Pretty obvious.
> 
> (2)What ambient temperature should I use in my ampacity calculations? I 
> assumed something less than 30°C, such as 20°C. But I read somewhere that one 
> has to be careful when the conduit exists the ground, in that one has only 
> 18” of conduit above ground before one has to use the full maximum ambient 
> temperature which in our case is 45°. The argument says that for the first 
> 18”, the portion of the copper conductors in the ground will cool the portion 
> of the conductors above ground via thermal conduction. I can’t find any 
> citation to confirm this argument. Does anyone have any sources of 
> information on the subject? Even if there is a sound engineering basis for 
> the argument, soon after exiting the ground, one would need a vault to splice 
> in a higher ampacity conductors and continue on to either the critical load 
> sub-panel or the inverters, you have to calculate the ampacity at 45°C. These 
> buried conduit runs are approximately 50 feet in length.
> 
> (3)One end of the conduit run is supposed to come out of the ground 
> inside the building envelope, so we could derate using 30°C or so for air 
> conditioned space. We cannot count on the garage being air conditioned 
> however.
> 
> (4)Can we use THHN as opposed to THWN-2? I am assuming the forces of 
> nature or human stupidity will eventually cause the PVC to crack and the 
> extra expense of THWN-2 (or another wet rated 90°C  conductor) will be a 
> better choice.
>  
> This job is the same one where the electrician claimed that neutrals on a 
> 120V branch circuit don’t count as current carry conductors in conduit for 
> the purposes of de-rating ampacity. He’s gone, but his replacement may not be 
> any more careful in his ampacity calculations.
>  
> Faithfully yours,
>  
> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
> NABCEP™ Solar Professional #031806-26
> President, SolarGnosis
> 1107 Fair Oaks Ave.
> Suite 351
> South Pasadena, CA 91030
> (323) 839-6108
> peter...@pobox.com
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Translucent Backed Modules

[Solar]

Solar world and Silicon Energy have standard frame mods with glass on glass. I 
think it's the same module...

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2016, at 3:09 PM, James Rudolph  wrote:
> 
> Sanyo Bi-Facials look nice and have a standard frame.
> 
>> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Chris Worcester  
>> wrote:
>> Lumos works.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Chris Worcester
>> 
>> Solar Wind Works
>> 
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
>> 
>> Office 530-582-4503
>> 
>> Cell 530-448-9692
>> 
>> Fax 530-582-4603
>> 
>> www.solarwindworks.com
>> 
>> ch...@solarwindworks.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Chad Waits
>> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2016 7:49 PM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Translucent Backed Modules
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Wrenches,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I have a custom project we are putting a proposal together for that is to 
>> fly over the pool/outdoor patio and provide partial shade. It will require a 
>> translucent module to allow some light to pass through to the decking/pool 
>> below. The steel superstructure is existing already and can be modified 
>> somewhat to accommodate racking/additional tilt.  It could be framed or 
>> frameless glass on glass. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Any recommendations out there?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Chad Waits
>> 
>> President/Owner – Net Zero Solar
>> 
>> 101 W. 5th St, Tucson, AZ  85705
>> 
>> Cell: 520.270.4873
>> 
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>> 
>> NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal Installer
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> James B. Rudolph
> Haleakala Solar 
> Director of Construction
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer # 091209-155
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] array overloading of an inverter

[Solar]

This thread show how this idea is really a site by site issue. Two winters ago 
we had something like 40+ days with temps below zero (-45F the coldest)  while 
in the summer temps tend to be near STC very often.  My Tigo system at home 
shows the DC side of my system (210W modules) producing 220-250W regularly 
during those cold winter months. I try take that into account when designing a 
system. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 13, 2016, at 3:37 PM, Kirk Herander  wrote:
> 
> Of the many Enphase systems I've done, clipping is a regular issue in
> wintertime Vermont, especially with the older micros whose output wattage
> ran way below the max. panel wattage. I've seen clipping for 3 hours or more
> on super-cold,  crystal clear days, with customer complaints about not being
> able to harness the peak . The DC:AC ratio of greater than 1 may also not be
> advantageous when using module based electronics, ala Solaredge, since the
> claim of 5 -7 % greater dc to ac conversion over a string inverter appears
> to hold true in my experience. You may be already getting the gains which
> overloading will accomplish, making overloading unfeasible economically. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Matt Partymiller
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 4:16 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] array overloading of an inverter
> 
> Kirk,
> 
> I would recommend you consider using a tool like PVsyst or Helioscope to
> model DC:AC ratios.  A quick modeling of roughly 200 kW on three Solectria
> 50 kW inverters shows about 1.3% clipping here.
> 
> It then comes down to analysis of your costs for additional modules, dc
> wiring, and inverters.
> 
> Admittedly I sit on the opposite side of the fence.  I try to provide at
> least a 1.2 ratio to minimize cost per kWh.  I am not aware of any large
> scale studies comparing PVsyst or Helioscope clipping projections to real
> world performance.  I can tell you that our arrays with monitoring and a
> ~1.2 DC:AC ratio perform as well as our older 1:1 systems.  Not that I use
> Enphase often but they have some research/whitepapers on the topic since
> their micros tend to undershoot 60 cell module power ratings.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> 
> Matt
> 
> Matthew Partymiller
> Solar Energy Solutions LLC
> (877) 312-7456
> m...@solar-energy-solutions.com
> 
> 
>> On Wed, July 13, 2016 3:02 pm, Kirk Herander wrote:
>> Hello folks,
>> 
>> 
>> I am composing a response to a question a potential customer asked me. 
>> It  seems a competitor is trying to talk him into a 20% larger KW 
>> array than the inverter AC max output rating is. The idea of course is 
>> to generate more power on either side of peak output, but at a cost I 
>> don't feel is justified. My opinion of this particular big-box 
>> installer I will keep to  myself. My response to the customer, trying to
> keep it simple:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "On the DC array input side, most inverters do allow an overload factor.
>> For
>> instance, a 10kw AC inverter may allow for 12 kw of DC array as an input.
>> Whether or not this is a good idea boils down to economics and 
>> technical reasons.
>> 
>> On a sunny day, the inverter generates power as a typical bell curve.
>> Power
>> output rises in the morning, peaks at noon, declines in the afternoon. 
>> In my example, the inverter can't output more than 10 kw AC. What 
>> overloading the input will do will widen the bell curve, i.e. 
>> generating more power in the morning and afternoon, BUT clipping the 
>> peak at 10kw on either side of noon. So there is power to be gained in 
>> morning and afternoon, but peak power is lost(if conditions allow the 
>> peak output to be reached), since the 12 kw array can never be converted
> to more than 10 kw of AC power.
>> Depending upon
>> time of year(ambient / cell temperature) and weather conditions, the 
>> peak may be clipped at 10 kw for several hours a day. So you are both 
>> gaining and losing power using this method. And typically the 
>> inverters are only overloaded in this manner on large-scale farms 
>> where the economics are favorable.
>> 
>> In your case, if you could actually put 200kw of DC array into 150 Kw 
>> of inverter, the economics would never justify it. That extra 50 kw of 
>> array would cost you $100k of more, and the dollar payback for the 
>> power that extra 50Kw would generate will take 2 - 3x the time that 
>> th

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid

[Solar]

I like the magnum for small loads. It may be to big (1000W) for your needs 
though. 

I have a 300W samlex and a 1500W samlex for my training program and both seem 
to work well for small loads. We use the 300W for charging drill batteries 
while working on our habitat for humanity house each year and the 1500W is on a 
little cart we use when we go to high schools for recruitment. We use the later 
to run a tv and an X-box while at the highschool. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 28, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
> We have sold many hundreds of small inverters of various makes. Run from 
> Samlex as a company. Most of their inverters have failed costing us $10’s of 
> thousands. They will not take care of dealers.
> 
> GoPower has a new high surge 1500 Watt inverter 
> http://gpelectric.com/products/1500-watt-high-surge-pure-sine-wave-inverter 
> that works wonders with all kinds of complex loads. Extremely low failures 
> and their customer service is excellent. 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 28, 2016, at 10:21 AM, frenergy  wrote:
> 
> Off-gridders,
> 
>   I've got a customer that wants to run a few very small loads (less 
> than 200 watts) but also a 20 year old washing machine (vertical axis).  Any 
> personal experiences with inverters smaller than the basic outback, Xantrex, 
> trace, transformer type inverters?  I'm hoping to be able to run it with a 
> 1500-2000 watt Samlex.  Clue me in please.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bill
> 
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049
> www.frenergy.net
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Support Non-Responsive

[Solar]

I've done a few SE systems lately and I do like it over the micros. Especially 
with our extremely cold winters. The clipping was getting ridiculous. 
I have a few Tigo systems in as well and like those too. 
Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 6, 2016, at 7:14 AM, Howard Arey  wrote:
> 
> Aw, one more Enphase  / SolarEdge response.
> 
> The "high voltage" DC is 350-380 volts and with the rapid shutdown capability 
> now shipping standard with SE inverters, they go to 1 volt per optimizer when 
> the AC grid is not present.  By the way, that 1 volt per optimizer is a great 
> way during installation to confirm proper connections - string of 10 means an 
> installer should see 10 volts.
> 
> No bottle neck issue. The optimizer in essence is doing the MPPT function at 
> each module. So if shading, the Opt "finds" best voltage to maximize power 
> output. No string degradation. Mixing modules is not a factor whatsoever.
> 
> Best part is that since I only MPPT on roof and don't invert, I have a string 
> inverter on the side of the house that only does one function - invert! Why 
> try to invert DC to AC on a HOT roof when I could do it with a much higher 
> efficiency box that is more robust on the side of the house or in a garage?
> 
> I've gone away from microinverters entirely - too many nuisance faults. And 
> each nuisance fault is a phone call to customer support that is handling more 
> than they can handle by a ratio of...number of MLPE to string inverters 
> essentially. 
> 
> Scot
> Solar CenTex
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of William Dorsett
> Sent: Friday, August 5, 2016 1:46 PM
> To: 'RE-wrenches' 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Support Non-Responsive
> 
> Still you pay as much for the Solar Edge optimizers as for Enphase inverters 
> plus you have the cost of the central inverter.  At some point you are still 
> dealing with high voltage DC, so safety is far better with off the roof 240V 
> AC; you still have the bottleneck if one module is shaded or corroded; and 
> you still have the difficulty of replacing a legacy module to build a 
> compatible string. Again I am not unhappy about Enphase hardware. I just 
> think they've grown too fast to keep their support as well organized as the 
> rest of the company.
> 
> Bill Dorsett
> Manhattan, KS
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of penobscotso...@midmaine.com
> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2016 12:54 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Support Non-Responsive
> 
> It is a very simple install. With SolarEdge there is no trunk cable, which 
> definitely cuts down on wire management, especially using SnapNRack mounting. 
> Everything is MC4, so PV wire to a transition box, to the inverter input(s) 
> make it pretty simple. We almost always mount our inverters outside, even 
> when they are string inverters, and typically on the north side of the 
> home/business. My guys didn't like the changeover on the first SolarEdge job, 
> but it only took one to bring them around and they are now converts.
> 
> Daryl
> 
> 
>> Do you find that the installation takes longer because you're 
>> basically installing a micro inverter and string inverter system at the same 
>> time?
>> I've also heard of AHJ's requiring that the inverter be mounted 
>> outside because of the rapid shutdown disconnect attached to the inverter.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Will
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> *Will White*
>> Curriculum Developer
>> 
>> e: w...@solarenergy.org
>> w: www.solarenergy.org
>> p: 802-272-3092
>> 
>> PV Installation Professional
>> # 093006-34
>> 
>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 1:41 PM,  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Since I am having such a tough time even getting a call back, never 
>>> mind reimbursments, we have started very happily using SolarEdge with 
>>> very good results so far. Communications, no problem, occasional tech 
>>> support is timely, we are seeing less than a 1% failure on 
>>> optimizers. Ease and safety of installation is excellent as 
>>> welland no, I don't work for them :-)
>>> 
>>> Daryl
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Wrenches
>>>> We have allot of enphase and ya sometimes it a little hard to get 
>>>> them
>>> on
>>>> th

Re: [RE-wrenches] DIN Rail connector source

[Solar]

I like Digi-key due to the fact that they are based out of a small town in far 
northern MN. They chose to base in a very economically depressed region and 
have been a great part of that community for many many many years. Their site 
can be kinky but they get all my business even my business for the electrical 
maintenance program I teach. 

 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 26, 2016, at 10:12 PM, Maverick Brown  
> wrote:
> 
> I use a lot of Phoenix Contact din stuff from Mouser.com. You can get 
> different width din bus bars with fixed bridges to make distribution blocks, 
> from 26 to 2 AWG. 
> 
> Schneider makes a lot of products as well. Like RFP2AJD power relays for gen 
> start and other controls. 
> 
> I also really like Omron products
> i.e. G2R-1-S-DC12S relays & appropriate din socket. 
> 
> Plus, solid state relays, power supplies and 'billions' of other din stuff. 
> 
> I think you will like mouser.com. 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Maverick
> 
> 
>> On Sep 26, 2016, at 7:41 PM, William Miller  wrote:
>> 
>> Colleagues:
>>  
>> I have been building a number of custom control and monitoring cabinets 
>> lately for some of our more complicated installations. I like using DIN rail 
>> components-- relays, connectors, fuse holders, etc.  I have been buying 
>> these parts from Grainger, Newark, Digi-key, etc.  From these suppliers 
>> there are a dizzying array of parts available, so much so that it is 
>> difficult to discern what will fit my needs.  Also not all of them are of 
>> good quality.
>>  
>> I am wondering if any of you have a found a single-source supplier you 
>> prefer for DIN rail components that you might recommend?  Hopefully ne from 
>> which I can choose the parts I need without wading through 50 catalog pages.
>>  
>> Also, is there a brand  or style of connector block any of you favor?  Most 
>> of my applications are low current.
>>  
>> Thank you in advance for any input.
>>  
>> Sincerely,
>>  
>> William Miller
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> Lic 773985
>> millersolar.com
>> 805-438-5600
>>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Megawatt System - Combiner Output Wiring

[Solar]

The Last large system I worked on we used direct burial alum 750s. We had a 
large crew out that day to help with that wire pull, it was 1000'. Eventually 
the backhoe that dug the trench was used to help pull the wires (slowly!). I 
guess I'd do it that way again but I don't have lots of  experience with large 
systems like others might. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 6:32 PM, Corey Shalanski  wrote:
> 
> We're in the process of designing our first >1MW system. It will include 
> inverter output combiner panels (potential aggregate current >700A) located 
> approx 100' from the system disconnects.
> 
> Since we have never previously dealt with wires this big (2 sets of 
> paralleled 500 mcm?) we are thinking that direct burial (aluminum) conductors 
> might be a good option - any suggestions? What wiring method do others use 
> for this type of large ampacity AC circuit? UF? USE? USE-2? Other?..
> 
> --
> Corey Shalanski
> Joule Energy
> New Orleans, LA
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Recombiner

[Solar]

My students we just today complaining about the access to wires on the panel 
mount breakers. The lug idea with separators might be a fix. It definitely 
needs to be done differently. In class We added another inverter to our package 
and trying to install another 175A breaker was a pain. We have a few other DC 
breakers in there already. The whole cabinet is basically inaccessible. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 10, 2016, at 9:40 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> You might want to look at the square D QO breaker line some are dc rated and 
> voltage rated and are panel mounted.
> Jerry
> 
> 
>> On Oct 10, 2016 3:00 PM, "jay"  wrote:
>> I”ll chime in here.
>> 
>> Yes the GSLC is a piece of junk.  
>> However it is UL listed for the job. And while you could put together 
>> something that would work with Airpax breakers together, but it wouldn’t be 
>> UL.
>> 
>> What I do is to swap out all the wires to Arctic ultra flex.  This allows 
>> much better movement of the wires with significantly less stress on the 
>> terminals.   And if you want to not attach wires to the back of the breakers 
>> then you can and I’ve seen outback do it, install lay in lugs facing 
>> outwards so you can use a screwdriver or allen key on them.  Allows for 
>> installation and removal of wire without removal of the breaker or the 
>> plate/breakers.  With thimbles of course. And I can’t find them but I know 
>> they make them, shields that fit between each breaker so the lay in lugs are 
>> insulated.
>> 
>> jay
>> peltz power
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 10, 2016, at 4:40 PM, William Miller  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Chris:
>>>  
>>> Thank you for the reply.  I think you misunderstand me.  We always use the 
>>> GSLC cabinets.  I just don’t like the design concept that clutters the 
>>> cabinet with AC and DC breakers that are difficult to access and block 
>>> other components.  See photo below of a prewired GSLC Cabinet we were asked 
>>> to work in.  Not a good scenario.
>>>  
>>> We have created an installation standard using the GSLC that minimizes the 
>>> problems inherent with the design.  We run all AC leads to adjacent load 
>>> centers and we try to minimize the DC breakers in the cabinet.  It is our 
>>> goal to completely eliminate all breakers from the removable dead-front.  I 
>>> think it is pretty self-explanatory why one would not prefer to make 
>>> connections in a hard to reach location. 
>>>  
>>> Our goal is to constantly improve our installation procedures to create 
>>> better, safer and more efficient installations.  
>>>  
>>> Also, I don’t need someone to instruct me on how to make a “finished” 
>>> looking install. If you are familiar with my work you know it is as clean 
>>> as it gets.  Review my web site.  Below is but one example of one of our 
>>> installs.
>>>  
>>> And lastly, “suck it up” is not a very complimentary phrase.  Please, let’s 
>>> keep it professional.
>>>  
>>> Sincerely,
>>>  
>>> William Miller
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Figure 1 Factory wired GSLC
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Figure 2 Miller Solar installed GSLC..
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Lic 773985
>>> millersolar.com
>>> 805-438-5600
>>>  
>>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
>>> Behalf Of Chris Mason
>>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 3:40 PM
>>> To: RE-wrenches 
>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Recombiner
>>>  
>>> The GSLC gives the system a nice finished appearance that the customer will 
>>> understand. Suck it up and live with the imperfect world we function in. 
>>>  
>>>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 5:55 PM, William Miller  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Friends:
>>>>  
>>>> I am looking for a PV recombiner.  I need to accept the outputs from 3 
>>>> remote PV Combiners, send those outputs through GFP circuit breakers, into 
>>>> charge controllers, back thorough breaker, into a bus bar, through a main 
>>>> breaker and onto a large battery bank.
>>>>  
>>>> I am using 2 Outback Radian inverters, but I refuse to install DC breakers 
>>>> on their dead-front because wiring to studs facing away from the front is 
>>>> an inferior design.  Further

[RE-wrenches] MATE3 restart

[Solar]

All,

We have a MATE3 on campus that resets each time you press a button to leave the 
main screen.  For example, we will press the "charger" button followed by 
pressing the "graph" button, at this point the screen will stall. The other 
buttons won't work at this point and the MATE will shut off and restart. 


Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] MATE3 restart

[Solar]

I will have the students perform the update next week.  This MATE has been in 
service for 3 years and this is the first time we've had problems. 

Thanks!

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 4, 2016, at 1:08 PM, Lones Tuss  wrote:
> 
> Hello Mr. Dahl
> I believe a Firmware update will be required. Down load the latest Firmware 
> from the OutBack Website onto an otherwise empty SD card. Insert the SD card 
> in the Mate3 then power it up.
> 
> If you press and hold the UP button it will force an update. 
> After the update is complete it might be a good idea to clear the Internal 
> Data Logs.
> Press Lock 
> Enter the password 141
> select Settings then System
> Scroll down to 
> Clear Internal Data Log
> Then choose yes.
> This should get you up and running.
> If it does not help email me directly for further assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> Take Care sir
> 
> Lones Tuss
> Applications Engineer
> OutBack Power Technologies
> 17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223
> 360.618.4383 Office | 425.213.8794 Cell
> www.outbackpower.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Solar
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 4:24 AM
> To: Wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] MATE3 restart
> 
> All,
> 
> We have a MATE3 on campus that resets each time you press a button to leave 
> the main screen.  For example, we will press the "charger" button followed by 
> pressing the "graph" button, at this point the screen will stall. The other 
> buttons won't work at this point and the MATE will shut off and restart. 
> 
> 
> Jesse Dahl
> 
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
> IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
> Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 1000vdc rated multi meter/clamp on

[Solar]

I use the Klein CL2000 and I believe it's 1000V rated cat3. I don't like the 
way the leads attach but other than that I like the meter. 

Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 20, 2017, at 10:08 AM, August Goers  wrote:
> 
> We have a couple of Fluke 381 meters. I recommend them although battery life
> has been a problem. Now we always keep spare batteries in the case.
> 
> I like having the iFlex option for measuring amperage where the standard
> clamp jaws can't reach. The removable display is nice but not a must have
> for me.
> 
> Our crew members supply their own meters here at Luminalt. I've seen all
> kinds of brands with differing quality. It is somewhat shocking how often
> cheap meters fail or give the wrong readings. There is nothing worse than
> having a meter you need to count on either not work or give a bogus reading.
> 
> Separately, I have a fluke 116 meter for HVAC and it is my go to for normal
> day to day work. We still service solar hot water systems and it reads
> thermistors accurately whereas the normal electrician types meters often do
> not.
> 
> August
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of jay
> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 1:57 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1000vdc rated multi meter/clamp on
> 
> HI All,
> 
> I’m in the market for a 1000vdc rated multi meter clamp on.
> 
> I am looking for what others would buy again or have thoughts on.
> 
> It doesn’t have to be a clamp on, but I would need a clamp on option.
> 
> I’ve looked at the Fluke 233, but the flex clamp doesn’t work with it, and
> maybe there are some issues with battery life The 375/376 FC look solid The
> Seaward clamp meter
> 
> And there are a few others.
> 
> All thoughts are welcome,
> 
> thanks
> jay
> 
> peltz power
> 
> 
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[RE-wrenches] How to evaluate chinese PV modules?

[Aladdin Solar]

Wrenches:

Like it or not, there is a huge volume of PV modules manufactured (in part or 
completely) in China. And we're seeing U.S. producers moving operations there, 
too. If we can put aside some of the knee-jerk reactions to the idea of Chinese 
manufacturing and face the fact that it's a major force in the industry, isn't 
is possible, even likely, that some of these products are every bit as good as 
those we are more familiar with?

How can we rationally evaluate modules from manufacturers we are unfamiliar 
with? Obviously UL and CEC listings/certifications are an important starting 
point but this doesn't narrow the field much. Warranties also do not narrow the 
field, either. Module specs aren't likely to very many products. Evaluation of 
the quality of modules seems not possible without long-term testing and 
in-field hands on experience. But we don't really know how the new models from 
Sharp, Sanyo or SolarWorld will hold up over time either but we tend to trust 
them because they are familiar. Age/history/trackrecord eliminates newer 
companies but still leave numerous large manufacturers as viable. Will they, 
can they, back up their products... how can you know? Shipping distance could 
be a reason to resist Asian manufacturers except that modules from Europe are 
also shipped half-way around the world to us. Employee human rights and 
environmental concerns would be important if there was some way to evaluate 
these--but how to research this? I've tried and don't have the time to find 
objective information.

So, how do we evaluate these Chinese modules? Do we just lump them all into a 
"low quality" category? Is there a source of objective information where 
quality and other issues have been investigated? Are there some Asian 
manufacturers you trust and some you definitely stay away from?

Thanks.
Charlie Pickard
Aladdin Solar
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Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Enphase inverters

[Aladdin Solar]

Yes, we have been taking the approach Rebekah describes and treat the grounding 
conductor from the Enphase as GEC: Continuous #6 copper from the Enphase 
installed grounding clamp all the way back to the Grounding Electrode. The 
irreversable splices can be a bother compared to using a Polaris or similar but 
AHJs have been very happy with this approach (so far).

Charlie Pickard
Aladdin Solar
Excelsior, MN 55331
cpick...@aladdinsolar.com
www.AladdinSolar.com

  - Original Message - 
  From: Rebekah Hren 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 9:25 AM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Enphase inverters


The code does require the GEC to be continuous (250.64C), and I believe 
that the AC EGC for the Enphase metal inverter cases is in fact the same as the 
DC GEC since the point of system bonding on the DC side is inside the inverter. 
See art. 100 definitions:Grounding Electrode Conductor. A conductor 
used to
connect the system grounded conductor...to a point on the grounding 
electrode

system.


So this means that for Enphase systems the AC EGC (which is also the DC 
GEC) should be at minimum 8 awg (250.66) and continuous? Seems like it to me. 


Rebekah Hren




--- On Tue, 9/14/10, Mark Frye  wrote:


  From: Mark Frye 
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Enphase inverters
  To: "'RE-wrenches'" 
  Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 10:05 AM


  I believe the AC GEC runs from; the point where the ungrounded 
current carrying conductor is bonded to the enclosure of the service enterance 
equipment; to the connection to the ground electrode system. Conductors that 
run from the service enterance equipment, thru the premis to the Enphase are 
bonding jumpers that are not required to be continuous.

  Mark Frye 
  Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 
  303 Redbud Way 
  Nevada City,  CA 95959 
  (530) 401-8024 
  www.berkeleysolar.com  




--
  From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
  Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 9:46 PM
  To: RE-wrenches
  Subject: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Enphase inverters


  Friends:

  According to the 2005 NEC 250.64(C), the GEC for an AC system needs 
to be continuous without splices unless they are irreversible.  I am not clear 
where this conductor starts and ends.  Is it from the ground buss in a 
sub-panel to the disconnect switch on the roof, or to each inverter?

  Also, non-reversible splices need to be listed for use in grounding 
systems.  Any suggestions on make and model of splices so listed?

  Any advise from those more experienced is much appreciated.

  William Miller


  Please note new e-mail address and domain:

  William Miller 
  Miller Solar
  Voice :805-438-5600
  email: will...@millersolar.com
  http://millersolar.com
  License No. C-10-773985



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Zep Solar

[Aladdin Solar]

Looked at the Zep stuff at SPI last week. I thought the mounting system and 
general design looked pretty good. They claim they are working with half dozen 
other manufacturers and expect to be offering those product versions over the 
next year. Don't know which those might. Wait and see.

Charlie Pickard
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
Aladdin Solar
952-401-7073
cpick...@aladdinsolar.com
www.AladdinSolar.com
  - Original Message - 
  From: Kirpal Khalsa 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 2:21 AM
  Subject: [RE-wrenches] Zep Solar


  Greetings All...looking for any feedback on the Zep Solar racking.any 
one gotten their hands on one of these racking systems ye? Care to share your 
experience?.what are your thoughts?..I am thinking of possibly trying 
one of these systems...are the benefits really as good as zep makes it 
sound?  I don't like the idea of only using the Canadian Solar 
modules..would be nice if there were some US made Zep modulesThanks!
  -- 
  Sunny Regards,
  Kirpal Khalsa
  NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
  Renewable Energy Systems
  www.oregonsolarworks.com
  541-218-0201 m
  541-592-3958 o



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[RE-wrenches] PV to 208v 3-phase with high leg

[Aladdin Solar]

What is the best approach to interconnecting with a 208 volt 3-phase service 
having a high leg? Small to medium sized PV systems.

Charlie Pickard
Aladdin Solar
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[RE-wrenches] Grounding system for a shack on a frozen lake?

[Aladdin Solar]

Sounds like a silly question but is there any way to ground a small battery 
based PV system serving a temporary fishing shack on the middle of a frozen 
lake? Around here they call these 8' x 8' (or larger) shacks "ice houses". One 
or more holes are augered through the ice for fishing lines. Some of the shacks 
get remarkably fancy, almost luxurious (in a guy kind of way). There is usually 
plenty of beer and snacks. Sometimes fish, too. The shacks get set in place as 
soon as the ice is solid (4-6" thick) and they may stay there for several 
months. It's a home away from home for a lot of upper midwest folks in the 
winter. Some like the idea of a small solar powered battery system for light, 
CD player, TV, etc. There's no earth around for hundreds of yards, even miles.

Charlie Pickard
Aladdin Solar
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding system for a shack on a frozen lake?

[Aladdin Solar]

The main "Official" you'd ever meet is checking for fishing licenses, etc. Yes, 
it would only be a small 12V system, usually DC devices but my thinking was 
just that if a simple grounding method would make the inhabitants safer it 
would be worth considering -- users don't always exhibit great judgement after 
many hours and beers in an enclosed space!

Dropping "non-fishing" (i.e. grounding) lines in the hole would end up snagging 
or tangling with active fishing lines -- especially when you get one on the 
line.

Would an ice or water grounding connection have any effect at all?

Charlie Pickard
Aladdin Solar

 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Ray Walters 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 10:59 AM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding system for a shack on a frozen lake?


  There are many RVs out there too, and they don't sink a ground rod every 
  time they park.
  Use a GFCI outlet, and I think you'll be at the same safety level as 
  other portable systems.
  (Is there an ice structure building inspector?)
  You could still heat up a copper rod with a torch and then drive it into 
  the ice just to say you did.
  Post some pics this winter when its in.
  (P.S. optimum array angle will probably be as much as 80 deg due to the 
  ice reflection, and peak power could be over 125% of nameplate, use an 
  amp meter to adjust tilt)

  Ray Walters

  On 8/9/2011 7:09 AM, Exeltech wrote:
  > First .. why are you grounding a portable system?  It's not required.
  >
  > In [29 CFR 1926.404(f)(3)(i)], OSHA states the frame of a portable
  > generator need not be grounded (connected to earth).
  >
  > If it's a fuel-powered generator, the NEC 250.34 states the frame may
  > serve as the ground as long as normally non-current-carrying metal parts
  > of equipment and the equipment grounding conductor terminals of the
  > receptacles are connected to the generator frame.
  >
  > This is even more applicable if the system is all low-voltage DC only.
  >
  >
  > Dan
  >
  >

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding system for a shack on a frozen lake?

[Aladdin Solar]

Jason, believe it or not, you are not far off! You are envisioning the solution 
for some of the more "advanced" shacks--entertainment centers and satellite 
dishes.

Charlie Pickard
Aladdin Solar

- Original Message - 
  From: Jason Szumlanski 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 11:49 AM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding system for a shack on a frozen lake?


  It sounds like you want an AC system for your "home theater" system, so make 
sure you get a mobile rated inverter if you plan to have a backup AC source. 
That way you will have integral neutral-ground bond switching. The mobile 
versions are rarely much more $, if at all. Try Magnum or Outback. 

  And make sure you plan for a satellite dish so you can pick up curling 
matches. 

  Jason Szumlanski

  On Aug 9, 2011, at 9:09 AM, "Exeltech"  wrote:

  > First .. why are you grounding a portable system?  It's not required.
  > 
  > In [29 CFR 1926.404(f)(3)(i)], OSHA states the frame of a portable
  > generator need not be grounded (connected to earth).
  > 
  > If it's a fuel-powered generator, the NEC 250.34 states the frame may
  > serve as the ground as long as normally non-current-carrying metal parts
  > of equipment and the equipment grounding conductor terminals of the
  > receptacles are connected to the generator frame. 
  > 
  > This is even more applicable if the system is all low-voltage DC only.
  > 
  > 
  > Dan
  > 
  > 
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[RE-wrenches] Request for E-Meter prescaler

[Sindelar Solar]

Wrenches,
I'm finally updating a longtime client's 12V off grid system to 48V. 
This is a 1986 system with the original Trace 1512 inverter that has 
worked continuously and without fail for 32 years. While I have added 
modest array and an MX60 about ten years ago, the system has pretty much 
remained the same since installation. The Concorde 8D 12V batteries 
(wired as four in parallel) have finally reached end of life after 13 
years, and an upgrade and expansion are in order.


My client has used an E-Meter for the last twenty years or so and 
understands and likes it. He knows that they have been out of production 
for years and is prepared to adapt to a TriMetric 2030, but I promised 
to ask here if any longtime off-grid installer might have the 0-100V 
E-Meter prescaler (part #900087) sitting in a box somewhere. If so, 
please contact me off list.


Thank you, Allan
--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter-generator question

[Sindelar Solar]

Ron,

I agree with Jerry here, and will add a bit more. I'll venture that 
neither generator is being seriously hurt, but neither is what's 
happening good for them.


This is a case where more specific info is needed to diagnose the 
problem remotely. VFX or VFXR? Which specific Honda generator? What is 
the site elevation for deration (looks like you're in BC, so maybe 2,000')?


This points out the importance of including a Mate in such a remote 
location, as that's your only diagnostic tool when something goes amiss. 
In that region with its short cloudy days the loss of generator charging 
in winter could be dangerous or worse.


I'm gonna guess that he has the Honda EM 5000is generator. I haven't 
seen or worked with that model, but I'm familiar with the older 3000is. 
These are inverter-based generators. The 3000 was a fair choice with the 
early Outback FX and VFX series, because the 120V output matched the 
input of the Outback. (The primary issue was overly-fast overload 
response, faster than the FX could control its surge input while 
charging batteries. The gennie would sometimes pop its output breaker if 
a pump or fridge came on; if the owner didn't hear the engine speed drop 
it could run for hours without doing anything.) The 5000 is 120/240, 
with a user-accessible *"120/240V Selector Switch: *Choose between using 
both 120 and 240 Volts, or 120 Volts only. This allows for the total 
generator output to be available through any of the 120 volt outlets, 
limited only by the capacity of the individual outlet."


My guess is the customer has accidentally set the switch on 120/240, so 
only one leg is feeding the FX. The FX is set to take the full 120V 
output, so is overloading the 1/2-output leg. The inverter can't hold 
acceptable voltage and unlatches, then repeats its input sequence. When 
the load drops out the gennie drops to idle. Have him check this switch 
first.


If not this you may have to do a call, bringing a Mate with you. (I 
don't know if a modern Mate3 will work with the non-R VFX, but an OB 
tech can likely tell you, if you can reach one.)


Good luck diagnosing at a distance - I hope that it's just the switch.

Allan

On 12/16/2017 7:04 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:

Ron
A 5 k 120/240 genny pushing a 24 volt 3500 watt sounds way over kill and
only pushing one leg only will result in issues, have not seen them with
hondas but have with others. No mate means no programming so it might be
over throttling the little inverter. You did not say anything about the
batteries so we cant do the math but with the miss match it is not
surprising that there are issues. Is the a PS-1 type panel or anything
besides the inverter. maybe its me but I don't see parts required to make
this a safe system. the Gen set issues also fit if there was no proper
programming done. these can be fun to get all fixed up right and doing what
they are designed to do.
Jerry
255 *24 = 6120 / 2 = 3060 / (5000/2) => a 20 amp 120 vac is 2400 with this
as an example with not much to go on, with the battery bit IF the batteries
were dead they would be charged in just over an hr. and NO l did not take
any losses into account but this was with D-8 DCFLA not sealed AGM's

On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Ron Young 
wrote:

Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in
June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having issues.
He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I
believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He is
probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so can’t
identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am currently unable to
travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).

Here is his recent email:
-Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing
an error.
-My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you
installed it.
-The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to
float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
-My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low
rpm, not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t hold a
higher rpm.
-I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing
fine for about 1.5 hours.
-Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter
system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the generator
rpm go up.
-If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the
inverter re-engages.

What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed generator,
but we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the house requires the
power.

Ron Young
earthRight - Solareagle


*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2

[RE-wrenches] DC-DC converter question

[Sindelar Solar]

Wrenches,
The time has come to upgrade a longtime client's 1985 12V system and 
original Trace 1512 inverter. The inverter still works fine after 32 
years of continuous operation, but 12V is too limited to allow much 
expansion. The power system has numerous 12V loads - mostly lighting 
throughout the home, as the 12V SunFrost fridge will also be replaced, 
so a 24-12 step-down DC-DC converter is part of the upgrade.


Is there any reason that I shouldn't use a Mean Well RSD-300B-12 
(https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/rsd300.pdf) wouldn't fill the 
bill? I'm familiar with this brand, as they were used for years by Array 
Technologies to step down voltage to run tracker drives, and I have 
never known (or heard of on this list) of a failure. The price is right 
too at a bit over $100.


Any reviews, cautions, or other recommendations?
Thank you,
Allan
--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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[RE-wrenches] Michael testing, do not respond

[Solar Bozo]

Hello again Wrenches. This is Michael, testing file attachments again from a 
different email address. 

Please do not respond to this post, contact me off list if you have any 
questions. 
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[RE-wrenches] Prism Solar Panels Failing

[AE Solar]

Hey Wrenchers,
We just did our first install with Prism Solar bi-facial panels (Bi-48
286's).  So far two panels have shattered already. Both were from mild
impacts (the battery of a drill hitting the panel with not much force
behind it). The system is only about 6 weeks old. I'm in contact with Prism
and waiting to hear their response but am wondering if anyone else has
worked with these panels or heard of any problems like this?
Adam

Adam Katzman
Autonomous Energies
PO Box 1245
Kingston, NY 12402
www.autonomousenergies.com
(518) 567-1468
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Older iCel System Lithium Ion Batteries

[Sindelar Solar]

Gary, you might try an old-fashioned approach: bypass the controller to 
send the array straight to the batteries until threshold voltage is 
reached. More specifically, bypass one of the controllers; assuming 48, 
60 or 72 Vnom depending on array. Let the other controller remain in 
normal operation. Send the unregulated array to bring initial battery 
voltage up; then the other controller takes over and the one that was 
bypassed now is reconnected. Better if the unregulated array is the 
smaller of the two, I would suspect.


What I'm suggesting will work with flooded lead-acid, and likely VRLA 
lead-acid as well, as long as the unregulated array is taken out of the 
system before voltage exceeds bulk. It may not work at all with these 
Li-I, as I have no experience with restoring them. Daryl may well be 
right about being unrestorable below a threshold voltage; also the 
batteries may need an operational BMS to take a charge. So this is 
perhaps just food for thought.


Allan

--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

On 2/9/2018 6:16 PM, Gary Rochlin wrote:


Does anyone have any information or specifications for an older circa 
2010-2012 iCel System Lithium Ion Battery.  We are doing a repair on 
an older 48V Lithium Ion system consisting of 3-6 ICel batteries wired 
in parallel and 1 Xantrex 6848 and 2 Xantrex Conext MPPT 60 150 Solar 
Charge controllers.  Via a surge from SCE system shut down and sat 
before we were called in. Batteries are sitting at 6.67V and the 
charge controller will not turn on unless the batteries are at 40V 
since at the time they were made for lead acid batteries.  I’m looking 
at finding the way to charge the iCel  batteries or goose the charge 
controller into thinking 40V are coming from the batteries.  I think 
I’m making sense here.


*Blue Sky Energy *

g.rochlin@ <mailto:mtnri...@verizon.net>blue-sky-energy.com

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ series inverters

[AE Solar]

one thing that's cool with the new IQ system is that you have the option to
not only monitor your production, but also your consumption. in order to do
this you will need to run a CT to the lineside of your MSP, so even if you
use a dedicated load center for Enphase equip, be prepared to run wire to
the MSP if you want to use the consumption feature.  also worth noting that
while their isn't a neutral coming from the inverters, you will need a
neutral in the load center for the envoy...

Adam Katzman
Autonomous Energies
PO Box 1245
Kingston, NY 12402
www.autonomousenergies.com
(518) 567-1468


On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Wayne Irwin 
wrote:

> We always install a separate sub-panel for all Enphase circuits with the
> Envoy tied in the sub panel bas well. Communication is never an issue with
> this method. I have to say that Enphase may have (dare I say it) the most
> reliable monitoring available.
> One trick we've learned is, if possible, use the wps option to gain web
> access so that when your customer changes their WiFi password the Envoy is
> not locked out causing you to make another trip.
>
> Wayne Irwin,
> President
> License #CVC56695
> State Licensed Solar Contractor
> Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
> wa...@pureenergysolar.com
> http://PureEnergySolar.com
> http://SolarChargingStation.net
> 352 377-6527 <(352)%20377-6527> Office
> 352 336-3299 <(352)%20336-3299> Fax
>
>
> The Sun Is Always Shining!
>
> The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are
> not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use
> or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail
> and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
> --
> *From:* RE-wrenches  on behalf
> of William Miller 
> *Sent:* Friday, March 30, 2018 11:16:57 AM
>
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ series inverters
>
>
> Wayne:
>
>
>
> Have you had any difficulties with communications reliability?  Do you
> install a separate load center for Enphase Equipment?  Are there any tips
> or tricks one might not be aware of?
>
>
>
> Thank you for any information you can share.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> [image: Gradient Cap_mini]
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com
> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millersolar.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce542f99a5f8e4b3a2e3008d59667a357%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636580294215250493&sdata=6jGmxyWdcikEd5fuotucyNtln7fuih%2FK0%2FFvH37SYxk%3D&reserved=0>
> 805-438-5600 <(805)%20438-5600>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Wayne Irwin
> *Sent:* Friday, March 30, 2018 8:14 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ series inverters
>
>
>
> We've been using them for about a year now. So far no failures which is
> quite remarkable considering the fairly large number that we've installed.
> We're keeping our fingers crossed!
>
> Wayne Irwin,
> President
> License #CVC56695
> State Licensed Solar Contractor
> Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
> wa...@pureenergysolar.com
> http://PureEnergySolar.com
> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FPureEnergySolar.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce542f99a5f8e4b3a2e3008d59667a357%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636580294215250493&sdata=LuGJyQ7oVuU4bEGzMDyyy6A1K6qujJhIj4VtLd1Ltd0%3D&reserved=0>
> http://SolarChargingStation.net
> <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FSolarChargingStation.net&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce542f99a5f8e4b3a2e3008d59667a357%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636580294215250493&sdata=phd%2FV5Ltrgv3zZkXpI9Q0lB8cXL%2FVIhPJjMdGAsl7bo%3D&reserved=0>
> 352 377-6527 <(352)%20377-6527> Office
> 352 336-3299 <(352)%20336-3299> Fax
>
>
> The Sun Is Always Shining!
>
> The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are
> not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use
> or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail
> and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
> ------
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  on behalf
> of Drake 
> *Sent:* Friday, March 30, 2018 10:20:51 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ series inverters
>
>
>
> Hello Wrenches,
>
> Does anyone have a track record on the Enphase IQ inverter?
>
> Thanks,
>
&g

Re: [RE-wrenches] Squirrel Guards for Solarworld 2.0 Frames

[AE Solar]

SnapNRack makes a ‘box frame adapter’ that will let you use their netting
on panels that don’t have the lip on the panel frame

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:53 AM Kevin Eigel  wrote:

> HI Nick:
>
> We have used the solatrim on Solarworld modules, and it works well,
> although I have some doubts about how long the adhesive will hold up over
> time.
> We purchased it on ebay for a discount.
>
>
> Kevin Eigel
> *Ecohouse Solar*
> 1857 Northwest Blvd. Ste 201, Columbus, OH 43212
> www.ecohousesolar.com
> 614-805-5776
>
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:50 AM, Nik Ponzio, Building Energy <
> npon...@buildingenergyus.com> wrote:
>
>> We need to add squirrel guards to an older system with Solarworld panels.
>> The 2.0 frames are not compatible with the snapNrack or spiffy solar guards
>> that we have used in the past. Any other products that we should consider?
>>
>> Has anyone used the  SolaTrim with adhesive attachment?
>> http://solatrim.com/
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nik Ponzio
>> Building Energy
>> 1570 South Brownell Road
>> Williston, VT 05495
>> 802-859-3384 ext.115
>> http://www.BuildingEnergyVT.com
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] top of pole with no galvy

[Sindelar Solar]

Bruce,
The very first time I saw UniRac's 'new' extruded aluminum hub at a show 
I figured it would fail over time, and I was assured that it wouldn't. 
It did.


My best suggestion would be to talk with Jeff Randall at Solar Rackworks 
in Albuquerque. He welcomes custom work and produces beautiful racks. He 
was the VP and lead engineer at DP&W.

Allan

On 6/7/2018 5:02 PM, Bruce Erickson wrote:

Hi All,
I have a super particular customer who needs a small top-of-pole rack, 
but will not accept anything but aluminum or stainless (or bronze or 
titanium or . . ). No galvanized steel! Anyone have a lead on a rack 
manufacturer that has all aluminum pole tops, like Unirac used to make?

Thanks.
*Bruce Erickson*
Mendocino Solar Service
PO Box 1252
Mendocino, CA 95460
707-937-1701
707-937-1741 fax
br...@mendocinosolar.com <mailto:br...@mendocinosolar.com>
/Connecting Mendocino County to Solar Since//1994/
--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] steel cased industrial batteries

[Sindelar Solar]

Jay,

HUPs. They're made by Enersys. I have yet to see a failed cell.

I'm backing away from IBE (which I have in my own home), as just this 
week one longtime client has a second failed cell (out of 24) on a 
seven-year-old set. He takes meticulous care of them too. The first one 
several years ago we replaced. This time we bypassed it and are running 
a 46V system as we look at lithium ion.


Allan

On 6/8/2018 8:54 AM, jay wrote:

HI All,
I’ve wondering if there are recommendations for steel cased flooded industrial 
batteries.
Would be looking for 12v packs, 1500-2000 amp hr.

There are many brands out there, HUP, IBE, Enersys, others?

Its been a while since I’ve had to even look at them and I figured someone out 
there has some current info, recommendations, best price etc.

thanks
jay
peltz power

--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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[RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs

[AE Solar]

wrenchers,
what methods are you all using for grounding on metal roofs? thanks
adam

Adam Katzman
Autonomous Energies
PO Box 1245
Kingston, NY 12402
www.autonomousenergies.com
(518) 567-1468
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Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs

[AE Solar]

thanks glenn. and what about commercial? anyone have code references
regarding grounding when doing solar on metal roofs? i thought a few years
back there was a conversation on this but i can't seem to find it.

Adam Katzman
Autonomous Energies
PO Box 1245
Kingston, NY 12402
www.autonomousenergies.com
(518) 567-1468


On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 1:46 PM, glenn.b...@glbcc.com 
wrote:

> We use the Ilsco SGB-4 ground lug on every pan under the array for
> residential systems.
>
> -Glenn
>
> *Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone*
>
> -- Original message--
> *From: *AE Solar
> *Date: *Sun, Jun 17, 2018 12:29 PM
> *To: *RE-wrenches;
> *Cc: *
> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs
>
> wrenchers,
> what methods are you all using for grounding on metal roofs? thanks
> adam
>
> Adam Katzman
> Autonomous Energies
> PO Box 1245
> Kingston, NY 12402
> www.autonomousenergies.com
> (518) 567-1468
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Bi-Directional / Netmetering question

[AE Solar]

The Enphase CTs are directional. There is an arrow on them. I believe it’s
supposed to point towards the load side for both consumption and production
but not positive off the top of my head.

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 7:10 PM Kirpal  wrote:

> Jason...not sure about the Enphase consumption monitoring, if it is done
> with CT's confirm that your CT's are facing the right direction.  Some CT's
> are directional and perhaps your consumption monitoring could be backwards
> instead of the utility meter wiring backwards.Seems like the utility
> would have noticed incorrect wiring in their can.
> We use the E Gauge CT clamps for some monitoring and they are
> directional.  I am not familiar with the Enphase versions.
>
>
> Sunny Regards,
> Kirpal Khalsa
> Oregon LRT#25
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> Oregon Solarworks LLC
> www.oregonsolarworks.com
> 541-299-0402
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:01 PM, Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> Is it possible for a utility meter to be programmed/wired backward? I
>> have a client on an Enphase system with production and consumption
>> monitoring, and the Enphase monitoring is showing solar production exceeded
>> consumption by 400 kWh for a billing period. However, the meter is reading
>> almost exactly the opposite. It seems too coincidental.
>>
>> I'm going to go out to the site tomorrow to shut down all of the loads
>> and see what happens when solar is only backfeeding the meter, but I'm
>> curious how the meters are "programmed" or set up to work.
>>
>> Note that the meter was zeroed to start and the initial billing period
>> readings show DEL exceeded REC by 400 kWh, which matches what was billed
>> (net usage of positive 400 kWh).
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>>
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Autonomous Energies
PO Box 1245
Kingston, NY 12402
www.autonomousenergies.com
(518) 567-1468
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC and LFP batteries and TriMetric

[Sindelar Solar]

Wrenches,
I  would like to broaden this topic a bit, please: we're currently 
installing our first Blue Ion LFP set (48kWh). I work almost exclusively 
with existing off grid systems, often older systems most of which have 
TriMetric monitors, either the TM2020 or newer TM2030. Has anyone 
successfully reprogrammed a TriMet to accurately register SOC and other 
data with LFP batteries? If so can you provide some guidance as to 
program settings?

Thank you,
Allan

On 8/20/2018 6:15 PM, Lou Russo wrote:

Jay,
The batteries are Blue Ion 2.0 from Blue Planet Energy, the 8kWh 
cabinet. The listed Maximum Continuous Charge and Maximum Discharge 
Rate is 1C.


Aloha,
Lou Russo

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 6:27 AM Jay > wrote:


Hi Lou,
Can you tell us which LFP batteries?
And what rates of discharge/charge?
Jay
Peltz power.

On Aug 17, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Lou Russo mailto:l...@spreesolarsystems.com>> wrote:


Hello All,


Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report
accurately on the Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a
minimal voltage curve? I have several systems with LFP batteries
that have both a eGauge (communicating directly with the battery
BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly different SOCs. In a typical  24
hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the FNDC that vary 2% to
34% of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am assuming that
the BMUs are reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5%
difference would be acceptable.


Any help or thoughts on this subject  would be greatly appreciated.


Aloha,
Lou Russo



--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC and LFP batteries and TriMetric

[Sindelar Solar]

Yes, I just did. Ralph retired last year and I spoke with the new owner. 
In short, little change - use 2% of capacity for amp threshold and set 
CEF to 98% from default 94%. I was also told to stick with the default 
14.1V voltage threshold, but that equates to 56.4V for a 48V system, 
which is above the normal range of these batteries, so I'm reluctant to 
take that advice.


I'm working with Kyle Bolger of Blue Planet on this first installation, 
and will post to the list what I learn that will benefit others.


Thank you, Allan

On 8/21/2018 11:29 AM, Howie Michaelson wrote:

Allan, have you talked directly with Bogart?
Howie

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 12:56 PM Sindelar Solar 
mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>> wrote:


Wrenches,
I  would like to broaden this topic a bit, please: we're currently
installing our first Blue Ion LFP set (48kWh). I work almost
exclusively with existing off grid systems, often older systems
most of which have TriMetric monitors, either the TM2020 or newer
TM2030. Has anyone successfully reprogrammed a TriMet to
accurately register SOC and other data with LFP batteries? If so
can you provide some guidance as to program settings?
Thank you,
Allan


--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Forced air Furnace

[Sindelar Solar]

Over the years I have supplied systems to new owners of modular or 
mobile homes, each of which comes with a forced air furnace unless 
special ordered without one. I would caution the homeowner against using 
the furnace as a primary heat source for the reasons already given. 
However, keeping the installed furnace operational only as a 
fast-responding means of bringing the temperature up until the woodstove 
kicks in was a popular approach, as long as it's not a substantial 
phantom load. I had one client who left the breaker off, but who could 
fire it up occasionally when needed. All of this is from years back when 
modules were $$$/watt, systems were smaller and efficiency was king. The 
principles still apply.


Allan

On 8/24/2018 2:51 PM, Drake wrote:
A wood stove heats the house, and will be the primary source of heat. 
An un-vented propane wall heater is installed and can heat the small, 
earth bermed, well insulated structure. A furnace will be a nice 
supplement, and will quickly pay for itself in insurance savings. 
During even a moderately cloudy day, it will be fine, but will not be 
used much on batteries. Still, I'd like as efficient a model as possible.


If I can find a unit with a 400 W draw, like the one in our on grid 
house, that would be adequate. The specifications I've found on the 
blower motors are sketchy. I will likely need to order it on line (or 
take a trip to a neighboring city), so reading the nameplates might 
not be so easy.


Does anyone know how to get accurate data on furnace blower motors?
Thanks,
Drake


I always try to talk the client into hydronic heating with ECM drive 
circulation pumps.  They do make ECM drive blower motors that can be 
retrofitted in some furnace systems.  Overall, its just a bad 
combination off grid: the worse the weather is the less PV production 
you have, and this corresponds to the same time that the furnace is 
operating 12 hours/ night.  They are either running the generator a 
bunch, or waking up in the morning to a cold house with the power 
off, and dead batteries.  If its an AC coupled system, they won't 
even have any PV production the next morning either.  This is another 
reason AC coupled is not a great idea, or at least you need to always 
have some DC coupled PV as well, but I digress..

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 8/23/18 5:43 PM, Dana wrote:

Drake,
All the conventional units I have amp clamped over the years are 
pushing 900-900+ watts per hour. I do not recommend them ever & to 
date I have never found a lower wattage blower. I would assume that 
a permanent magnet motor would fit this suggestion, but I have not 
found one.
For off grid I recommend: Radiant floor heat first and hot water 
base board second long before hot air. Air is a better insulator 
than a heat transfer agent.
The new ECM (electronically commutated motors) pump motors are 
basically at DC permanent magnet motor power draws [Taco & 
Grundfoss] these days.


Best of luck with this one.
Dana

*From:* RE-wrenches  
<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> *On Behalf Of *Drake

*Sent:* Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:37 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches  
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>

*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Forced air Furnace Hello Wrenches,

What is the best choice for a propane, forced air furnace for an
off grid house? We would prefer one that doesn't have a phantom
load, although the transformer for the thermostat may not be
avoidable. Low blower current would be preferable. The furnace
AC will be powered by a Magnum 4448 PAE.
Thank you,
Drake


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al...@sindelarsolar.com <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
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New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers

[Sindelar Solar]

Bill,

No, I'm with you on this.Given the the greatest boost (~+/- 30%) of 
daily tracking is during the summer and most stand-alone applications 
are winter-peak (where tracking adds at best 10-15%), seasonal water 
pumping is about the only time when small-scale tracking is justified 
over simply adding array. Any pumping where the source is slow enough 
that the length of the day becomes an important factor, like drip 
irrigation or a very low yield well or spring, is worth looking into. 
But that's about it in my experience.


Allan

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*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

On 9/5/2018 5:53 PM, solar1onl...@charter.net wrote:

Chris,
I thought since solar PV prices have come down (understatement), is it 
not more cost effective to buy more modules than a tracker? Are there 
scenarios that the above would not ring true? (As I remember, off grid 
water pumping for livestock ponds may still be an exception as also, 
limited space.) Please advise.

Thanks,
Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094



From: ch...@oasismontana.com
Sent: Wednesday September 5 2018 3:45:25PM

Dear people:

What trackers are y’all using nowadays?I have a customer (with a great 
site) who’s insisting on a pair.We’ve sold Zomeworks and Array 
Technologies in the past, but I know there are more offerings now.


Thanks for the input!

Chris Daum

Oasis Montana Inc.

406-777-4309 or 4321

406-777-4309 fax

www.oasismontana.com <http://www.oasismontana.com>

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback OPzV

[Sindelar Solar]

Steve,

If it's a 48V system, you might also look at Blue Ion LiFePo batteries 
and eliminate the lead for good. I just installed my first set and 
consider it a game changer.


Allan

On 9/11/2018 1:44 PM, Steve Romo wrote:

Good afternoon everyone,

What has been your experience with the Outback OPzV battery? I have a 
client who destroyed a set of Solar One HUP batteries (2490 A/HR) by 
forgetting to water them for a year. We are looking to take watering 
out of the equation.
He does need this much storage (maybe more) My next thought was 3 
strings of GS SLR 1000  batteries (cycle life is a lot better but at 
twice the cost)

I appreciate any and all input.
--
Steve Romo
Mountain Power Solutions LLC
NABCEP certified PV Installer #110112-124
Kohler Certified Generator Technician
Generac Certified Generator Technician

970-433-6316 
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*505 780-2738 cell*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Low Voc for effective string?

[Sindelar Solar]

Bill, I wouldn't, especially with FLAs. I have seen this situation here, 
where the summer highs are similar, with a few homeowner/hack 
installations and no, 60-cell modules will not finish the charge in hot 
weather. Strings of three work just about perfect with modern charge 
controllers, especially in winter, as they range high enough but well 
below 150VDC limits.


Allan

On 9/11/2018 4:04 PM, Bill Battagin wrote:


I've been on hold with OB for about 40 minutes now and I need to know 
if 2 SW PVs with a Voc of 39.9 and a Vmpp of 31.3 will do an effective 
job of charging a 48 volt LA battery especially with temps of 95 
degrees.  Anybody have experience with this or similar,  Appreciate 
the feedback.  It just seems I'm a little low in Vmpp if I want to 
equalize when its hot.  Will it be even more questionable in 10 years 
as PVs age?


OB did just pickup only to tell me I need Java for the string sizing 
tool and he can't help me with this configuration.


Bill

--


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al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Low Voc for effective string?

[Sindelar Solar]

Bill and all,

To elaborate a bit on Ray's accurate suggestion with a bit of history... 
in the early days the general consensus developed that for general use, 
36 cells (given that one cell produces just shy of 1/2 volt, regardless 
of cell size) was the standard cell count for battery charging. This was 
based on the understanding that a typical Vmp of 17.1-17.6 for a 36 cell 
module was necessary to equalize a 12V FLA battery to ~15.5 VDC in hot 
ambient daytime temperatures after all system losses due to various 
resistance in wire, connections, controllers, etc., were accounted for. 
You'll occasionally see early modules with 35, 33, 32 and even 30 cells, 
tried as "self-regulating" modules - didn't work, as it couldn't account 
for voltage variations due to temperature. Anyway, 36 cells is the 
default standard to charge a 12V battery. Extrapolating from this, 
there's a direct correlation between cell count and voltage in most 
applications: as 36 cells > 12Vnom, 72 cells > 24V and 60 cells > 
20Vnom. Go outside of these rules of thumb only with clear understanding 
of these limitations.


Three 60 cell modules is a nominal 80V; ideal for a 48 Vnom battery 
bank, while still below the 150V limit of many standard controllers in 
record cold temperatures. Three 72 cell modules, or 72 Vnom, is on the 
ragged edge of voltage compliance in cold winter climates.


Allan

On 9/12/2018 10:30 AM, Ray wrote:


A 2nd option: A pair of 72 cell modules should be enough.

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 9/12/18 9:21 AM, Mac Lewis wrote:

Hi Bill,

I agree with Allen. We get similar peak temps here and two 60 cell 
modules doesn't charge a 48V battery bank adequately. This effect 
would become worse over time with voltage degradation. I try to be at 
least 15% above highest expected battery voltage with Vmp of the 
strings. With 150V input limit on the Outback controllers, that 
leaves you with only one option, strings of 3, with our low temps.


On Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 4:24 PM Sindelar Solar <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>> wrote:


Bill, I wouldn't, especially with FLAs. I have seen this
situation here, where the summer highs are similar, with a few
homeowner/hack installations and no, 60-cell modules will not
finish the charge in hot weather. Strings of three work just
about perfect with modern charge controllers, especially in
winter, as they range high enough but well below 150VDC limits.

Allan

On 9/11/2018 4:04 PM, Bill Battagin wrote:


I've been on hold with OB for about 40 minutes now and I need to
know if 2 SW PVs with a Voc of 39.9 and a Vmpp of 31.3 will do
an effective job of charging a 48 volt LA battery especially
with temps of 95 degrees.  Anybody have experience with this or
similar,  Appreciate the feedback.  It just seems I'm a little
low in Vmpp if I want to equalize when its hot.  Will it be even
more questionable in 10 years as PVs age?

OB did just pickup only to tell me I need Java for the string
sizing tool and he can't help me with this configuration.

Bill

-- 


*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L16RE-2V set-points

[Sindelar Solar]

William and all,

While I too have avoided Trojan in recent years due to multiple reports 
of poor performance on this list, I want to note that in my experience, 
battery distributor experience will vary according to the individual 
branch. My local Albuquerque distributor is very good - prompt to 
respond, remembers my specific preferences (e.g. VRLAs left in their 
awkward boxes to avoid scuffing cases on our rough roads), gave me 
2%10Net30 terms at my request, and even delivers to remote customer 
sites or meeting points near me.


Batteries are the main component that I buy that's outside of solar 
distributor familiarity, and I have had to learn over many years how 
best to work with them. It's a quite different industry.


Allan

On 9/12/2018 12:31 PM, William Miller wrote:

Friends:

I used to buy Trojans. My vendor told me about 3 years ago that Trojan 
had been acquired and the chemistry in the plates had changed. Later 
they denied making that statement.


 I had a set of L16s vastly underperform. Trojan suggest a 
bulk/absorption voltage higher than any other manufacturer, a value 
hard to achieve and maintain in a small off grid system. I replaced 
them with US Battery and system performance improved.


Due to the decline in quality I stopped using Trojan. Due to the 
varying stories, I stopped using Battery Systems. We prefer the 
MK/Deka brand.



William



On Sep 12, 2018, at 11:33 AM, Ray <mailto:r...@solarray.com>> wrote:


Unfortunately I'm seeing premature failures of the 2 v models even 
more.  You have paralleled cells in each battery, and it can be 
difficult to even identify the failures.  I found the infared camera 
to be invaluable, as you can see the shorted cell clearly in a 
thermal image.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 9/12/18 9:53 AM, Drake wrote:
I agree with the comments that followed on this thread, and would 
also like to add that Trojan L-16 batteries have a high rate of 
premature failure. Possibly the 2 V cells are better, but the 6 V 
cells seem very prone to dying early. Trojan batteries were robust 
in past decades, but seem exceedingly fragile now.


At 08:44 PM 9/11/2018, you wrote:

Hello wrenches,

I inspected a system that another company had installed. It had 
single string of 12 x Trojan L16RE-2V batteries about 2 years 
old.  They had experienced a battery melt-down.  It looks as 
though the meltdown had occurred internally, not from a bad connection.


The system was dual stack Outback VFXR-3524A inverters (to be 
precise one was a sealed unit).  The set-points were as follows:

Absorb Voltage was 29.8V
Absorb Time was 6.0 hours
Float Voltage was 27.0V
Rebulk Voltage was 27.0V
End Amps was 0A

These settings extended similarly to 2 x FM80 charge controllers.

I was able to jumper the melted battery and get her power in 15 
minutes.  Her installer had left her without power for 2 weeks.  
My clients will kill me if that happened!


Anyway, I believe these set-points are way out of whack and too 
aggressive.  The voltage is OK (Trojan recommends ~29.6V for this) 
but the Absorb time seems way too long, Rebulk is too high and end 
amps isn't helping.  However, Im not finding a definitive article 
from Trojan that describes typical Absorb times or even how to 
adjust towards a good Absorb Time, based on specific gravity 
measurements or amperage absorption. Â


My diagnosis is that these batteries have been cooked over the past 
2 years.  In the electrolyte, there is noticeable "floaties".  
The client said that the original installer had accused her of not 
using distilled water, but I don't believe that would cause her 
symptoms.  I believe the floaties are plate material.


I'd be interested in wrenches opinions familiar with these 
batteries if these are appropriate settings for a low energy 
user.  I will attempt to get through to Trojan as well.


Thanks in advance



--



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Reliable 48 to 24 V DC to DC reducer

[Sindelar Solar]

While not as inexpensive as David's solution, I have used Mean Well 
converters with success. This manufacturer supplied the DC-DC step-down 
converters used by Wattsun for their tracker drives, so there's a pretty 
long history with them. Check out 
https://www.trcelectronics.com/View/Mean-Well/RSD-200C-48.shtml.


Allan

On 9/15/2018 9:31 AM, David Katz wrote:
I have had great luck using cheap LED drivers. They say 110-240 vac 
input but they rectify the input to DC. I have used them to run 12 and 
24 volt stuff off of 48 vdc and even 400 vdc. They operate down to 
about 35 volts dc. They are available in a variety of output voltage 
and current. And they are isolated.   And they only cost a few dollars.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F152134115704
David Katz

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 7:58 AM Drake 
<mailto:drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org>> wrote:


Since Solar Converters seems to have evaporated, I'm not sure
where to look for a 48 to 24 V DC to DC converter. Samlex has 24
to 12. It seems like someone mentioned a Canadian company that
makes these.

I need to step down power from a 48 V battery bank to power El Sid
pumps for an offgrid hydronic  heating system.

Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
/Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
    NABCEP Certified Solar PV
740-448-7328
/http://athens-electric.com/

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*Allan Sindelar*
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[RE-wrenches] Jay,Re: wattsun linear actuator

[Sindelar Solar]

Jay and all,

I recently learned that while Array Technologies has grown well past 
small residential applications, there is limited support available for 
older Wattsun trackers. The Wattsun.com website doesn't say much about 
this, but Array Tech sold their residential division to old friends of 
Ron Corio's, who maintain a stock of some of the parts to keep older 
AZ-125, AZ-225 and other models going. It's a father/son team: Kyle 
Greulich, 973 647-7751 and Jeff Greulich, 973 476-1256.


You might give them a try for that linear actuator.

Allan

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al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

On 10/29/2018 9:03 PM, jay wrote:

HI All

I”m trying to locate another ( or Similar) VonWeise V76-5 actuator for an older 
wattsun smaller tracker.

I’ve only found 1 used one on Ebay.  Any ideas?

thx
jay

peltz power
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Schott solar panel warranty info

[Sindelar Solar]

David,

Out of curiosity, as I live off grid only about 50 miles from where 
Schott's Albuquerque factory was located, I was curious about your 
question. I found nothing in my personal archive of saved Wrenches posts 
on Schott warranty options from around 2012-14 or thereafter. A web 
search produced nothing either; same for a search for "Schott warranty" 
in the real Wrenches archives. I'd like to be shown I'm wrong here, but 
at this point I'd be glad that I wasn't the original installer.


Allan

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*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

On 11/9/2018 10:04 PM, David Coale wrote:

Does anyone have a good contact for Schott Solar warranty claims?  Is this 
still possible?  I just changed inverters to one with optimizers and see that I 
have a lot of bad panels.  On closer inspection there are quite a few bad 
solder joints that are the causing the problems.

Thanks,

David


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Batt Cap AGM

[Sindelar Solar]

Mick,

While I fully agree on the importance of a monitor such as the 
TriMetric, I'm confused by some of what you've written below. A TriMet 
(or any similar monitor for LA) can measure amp-hours removed and 
replaced, but it can't measure & display the battery bank's amp-hour 
capacity. Only taking the time to drain the bank at a measured rate will 
do that, and I have yet to have a customer want to pay me to do a 
battery capacity test down to 1.75 vpc at the 20-hour rate - or any rate 
for that matter. The TriMet is set up such that the installer tells the 
TriMet the battery capacity. In a case such as this, what number would 
you program into the TM as the amp-hour capacity? How would you 
determine this value?


Thanks, Allan

--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

On 11/20/2018 11:28 PM, Mick Abraham wrote:
> Hello, Drake & All~
>
> Drake described his service dilemma about batteries bought elsewhere 
& whether to correct the original hinky pack wiring (copied below). My 
reply below may seem cynical & I may seem too eager to declare the 
existing battery as: "Failed". Call me jaded.

>
> Mick's $0.02 is: If there's no amp-hour monitor in the system, I 
suggest you first try to persuade the homeowner to buy a metering shunt 
& a modest amp-hour meter such as the Tri-Metric--which could be used to 
measure & display the battery bank's amp-hour capacity. If the client 
won't approve that expenditure (& hourly labor for explanations), the 
service tech is hamstrung. Nobody can measure the health of a battery 
bank by just looking at it or talking about it...and clients sometimes 
receive the inevitable "battery bad news" if they are shown the 
diminished capacity on a digital display after an equitably managed 
"pump & dump".

>
> Your thought, Drake, of holding back on any re-wiring of the battery 
pack...seems prudent...until the first set of amp-hour measurements are 
recorded as a baseline. From there...a common pattern is a series of 
attempted remediation efforts--all for pay, of course--until the 
homeowner acknowledges that it's time to start afresh.

>
> Oops, I left out an important step: getting a read on whether the 
client has the money for new batteries or not. I'm personally terrible 
at getting that reconnaissance done early enough. If the client isn't 
materially blessed to be able to get new batteries, they might be better 
off spending limited funds on fuel for the engine generator instead of 
on battery testing & tutorials.

>
> Mick Abraham, Proprietor
> www.abrahamsolar.com
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Drake 
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 11:41:17 -0500
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Batt Cap AGM
> Hello Wrenches,
>
> An owner of an existing system has a bank of twenty, 100 AH, 12 V 
Deep cycle batteries of the Batcap brand.

>
> The bank is made up of four sets of 5 batteries in parallel to 
produce 500 AH battery sets at 12 V. These four parallel sets are then 
wired  in series to give a 48 V nominal bank.

>
> The battery voltages vary from around 13 to 15 volts. The bank is 
about 5 years old. The CEO of Batcap told the system owner that these 
batteries have lasted up to 30 years in solar applications, so he has 
high expectations for these batteries being around for a while.

>
> My first impulse is to rewire the bank in a normal series - 
parallel configuration. But there are too many strings to do this 
without a bus bar. Besides, the batteries are likely damaged, and 
rewiring them might cause the bank to exhibit unsuspected problems. How 
much money is worth putting into this bank? $0?

>
> The owner seems like a reliable guy who likely hired the wrong 
installer. He could use some help. What would you do in this situation? 
Rewire the bank, leave it well enough alone or run for the hills.

>
> Thanks,
>
> Drake

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Batt Cap AGM

[Sindelar Solar]

Jerry,

You write "I'm sure you know this..." but I don't know it. I don't think 
I have heard this before, as you have presented it.


How do you rotate strings? Where did you learn this? Is there an online 
source that you can provide?


Thanks, Allan

On 11/20/2018 6:21 PM, jerrysgarage01 wrote:

Wrenches, Drake
You may consider contacting "Batcap" and bank if they have a best 
practice for the battery configuration, this might be it but at least 
a starting point. I have had multi string batteries that seamed to 
like being rotated through the bank, sounds like alot of work and it 
is but this will swap higher resistance strings for lower ones. I'm 
sure you know this but each battery has internal resistance to charge 
and even discharge so rotating them reduces the effect and may in time 
help to improve the battery life.

Jerry



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 Original message 
From: Drake 
Date: 11/20/18 8:41 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Batt Cap AGM

Hello Wrenches,

An owner of an existing system has a bank of twenty, 100 AH, 12 V Deep 
cycle batteries of the Batcap 
<http://www.xstaticbatcap.com/what-is-a-batcap-.html> 
<http://www.xstaticbatcap.com/what-is-a-batcap-.html>brand.


The bank is made up of four sets of 5 batteries in parallel to produce 
*500 AH battery sets at 12 V.* These four parallel sets are then 
wired  in series to give a 48 V nominal bank.


The battery voltages vary from around 13 to 15 volts. The bank is 
about 5 years old. The CEO of Batcap told the system owner that these 
batteries have lasted up to 30 years in solar applications, so he has 
high expectations for these batteries being around for a while.


My first impulse is to rewire the bank in a normal series - parallel 
configuration. But there are too many strings to do this without a bus 
bar. Besides, the batteries are likely damaged, and rewiring them 
might cause the bank to exhibit unsuspected problems. How much money 
is worth putting into this bank? $0?


The owner seems like a reliable guy who likely hired the wrong 
installer. He could use some help. What would you do in this 
situation? Rewire the bank, leave it well enough alone or run for the 
hills.


Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
/Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
740-448-7328
/http://athens-electric.com/

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--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Batt Cap AGM

[Sindelar Solar]

Well, Jerry, I guess I'm up to speed now, thanks... It's just that your 
explanation here wasn't what I asked about. I was asking about your 
words that "rotating them reduces the effect [of internal resistance to 
charge and even discharge] and may in time help to improve the battery 
life" - I had not heard this, and I also asked how you rotate strings - 
the order of batteries within a string? Mixing batteries among strings? 
Simply rotating the lead positive cell in each string?


So I ask again - is there an online resource you can suggest, so we can 
learn more?


Thanks, Allan

On 11/21/2018 8:21 PM, jerrysgarage01 wrote:

Allan
I have been involved in off grid since the late 70's, l guess l have 
picked up a thing or two. As batteries age most will require higher 
voltage to reach the same specific gravity and will have a lower 
voltage under a load. This is the result of resistance with in the 
battery. This battery may still be good and just needs a good charge 
to get it back to a more normal state.
The entire wire harness from where it leaves the point of charge has 
it's own resistance, every connection, cable end, wire all of it has 
resistance and measuring  this is not as easy as you may think, you 
need to put a preset load on the bank measure the complete circuit 
voltage, now do the same under charge, measure  each battery note 
everything and once done with all the seperate banks you can see where 
the higher resistance is. This is why making all the cables the same 
length and same size, l have seen some cables soldered to reduce 
resistance. This in a long round about reason is why fewer bigger 
banks is better then more smaller batteries. I can continue but you 
should be up to speed now

Jerry

 Original message 
From: Sindelar Solar 

Jerry,

You write "I'm sure you know this..." but I don't know it. I don't 
think I have heard this before, as you have presented it.


How do you rotate strings? Where did you learn this? Is there an 
online source that you can provide?


Thanks, Allan

On 11/20/2018 6:21 PM, jerrysgarage01 wrote:

Wrenches, Drake
You may consider contacting "Batcap" and bank if they have a best 
practice for the battery configuration, this might be it but at least 
a starting point. I have had multi string batteries that seamed to 
like being rotated through the bank, sounds like alot of work and it 
is but this will swap higher resistance strings for lower ones. I'm 
sure you know this but each battery has internal resistance to charge 
and even discharge so rotating them reduces the effect and may in 
time help to improve the battery life.

Jerry
--


*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com <mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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