[RBW] Re: Amusing PSA: Mustard Clem frame

[Zed Martinez]

"Gravel Peterson"
>
>
Admittedly, 'Gravel Peterson' would've been a great name for my 52cm Clem, 
and I'm mad I didn't think of it. 

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[RBW] FS: Paul Touring Cantis, VO brake set and thumbie mount, possible tires

[Zed Martinez]

Hey all, so, while I was digging through the parts storage for a few things 
this weekend for listers who had some WTBs I was able to help on, I found 
some other parts left over from my many years of experimenting with Clem 
builds. I'm quite happy with my final build now, so, time to see if these 
can find a happier home.

All prices shipped CONUS. Outside that I'd have to check rates and work 
with ya.


Paul Touring Cantilevers. 1 bike's worth, matte silver finish. One with the 
original Kool-Stop pads, gently used. The other with Jagwire pads, more 
used. No hangers or straddle cables. One post bushing is a little chewed on 
the outside but still functions smoothly and seals with O-ring. Cosmetic 
issue only, and only when installing since the brake hides it when 
installed. $90 for the pair.

VO Grand Cru Mk III cantilevers. The wide-stance frog leg ones. These have 
their hangers and the clever little barrel adjustors for the straddle 
cables. Not as strong as the Pauls, good in dry riding, very attractive in 
their CNC'ed way. $30 for pair.

VO thumbie adapters. They're nice. They work well with the original Silvers 
or the Dia-Compe generics of the same. Not as good with the Silver 2s, the 
cable exit angle is wrong. $40


And I have some 650b tires leftover from the 52 Clem. Make me a reasonable 
offer and we'll talk, I'm a little less sure how well my ability to get 
them out the door the next couple weeks will go but I can try.

2x Schwalbe Marathon Mondials, 2", folding bead. I forget how many miles I 
have on them. They're Mondials, they've still got a ways to go left in them.

2x Suomi A10 studded tires, 40mm. Pretty OK on ice, not so great in snow. 
>From Peter White, so, the studs are all set nice. used one winter only, 
lightly.

2x Continental Mountain King II 2.2". Pretty standard knobbies, only used 
off-road once, used as fall tires one winter besides. Knobs still look fine.


Pictures of anything available on request, I'll see if I can get some today 
or tomorrow to put up in a reply otherwise.

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[RBW] Re: FS: Paul Touring Cantis, VO brake set and thumbie mount, possible tires

[Zed Martinez]

Both brake sets pending. Sorry all who emailed me, had some work come up, 
I'll reply to everybody in order.

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 2:31:37 PM UTC-4, Zed Martinez wrote:
>
> Hey all, so, while I was digging through the parts storage for a few 
> things this weekend for listers who had some WTBs I was able to help on, I 
> found some other parts left over from my many years of experimenting with 
> Clem builds. I'm quite happy with my final build now, so, time to see if 
> these can find a happier home.
>
> All prices shipped CONUS. Outside that I'd have to check rates and work 
> with ya.
>
>
> Paul Touring Cantilevers. 1 bike's worth, matte silver finish. One with 
> the original Kool-Stop pads, gently used. The other with Jagwire pads, more 
> used. No hangers or straddle cables. One post bushing is a little chewed on 
> the outside but still functions smoothly and seals with O-ring. Cosmetic 
> issue only, and only when installing since the brake hides it when 
> installed. $90 for the pair.
>
> VO Grand Cru Mk III cantilevers. The wide-stance frog leg ones. These have 
> their hangers and the clever little barrel adjustors for the straddle 
> cables. Not as strong as the Pauls, good in dry riding, very attractive in 
> their CNC'ed way. $30 for pair.
>
> VO thumbie adapters. They're nice. They work well with the original 
> Silvers or the Dia-Compe generics of the same. Not as good with the Silver 
> 2s, the cable exit angle is wrong. $40
>
>
> And I have some 650b tires leftover from the 52 Clem. Make me a reasonable 
> offer and we'll talk, I'm a little less sure how well my ability to get 
> them out the door the next couple weeks will go but I can try.
>
> 2x Schwalbe Marathon Mondials, 2", folding bead. I forget how many miles I 
> have on them. They're Mondials, they've still got a ways to go left in them.
>
> 2x Suomi A10 studded tires, 40mm. Pretty OK on ice, not so great in snow. 
> From Peter White, so, the studs are all set nice. used one winter only, 
> lightly.
>
> 2x Continental Mountain King II 2.2". Pretty standard knobbies, only used 
> off-road once, used as fall tires one winter besides. Knobs still look fine.
>
>
> Pictures of anything available on request, I'll see if I can get some 
> today or tomorrow to put up in a reply otherwise.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Paul Touring Cantis, VO brake set and thumbie mount, possible tires

[Zed Martinez]

Brake sets sold. Thumbie adaptors and tires still up for grabs. 

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[RBW] Re: Ghost shifting on the Clem

[Zed Martinez]

I can see the argument for two master links weakening the chain, but I rode 
my larger Clem with a two master link splice the entire time I had it and 
never had any issue really. Actually, I kinda miss that little two master 
link set-up, since the master links didn't wear the same as the chain 
around them but they'd both be on the chainring at once it made a really 
unique set of ticking noises as the chain started to wear and it was a 
useful reminder that I had probably been ignoring my chain, once I figured 
that out anyway.


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[RBW] Re: Fender Ideas

[Zed Martinez]

>
> too big and rubbed on the metal stay strap the runs under the fender


It requires being a bit a bit handy and ideally a rivet setter, but on 
those SKS fenders you can drill out the rivets on those brackets and 
remount them on the outside of the fender instead. Good for tight 
clearance, but also on some fender and tire combinations that bracket will 
catch enough water to cause its own splashing problems, and remounting it 
outside makes that less an issue. I picked up the idea from this old post, 
which sadly the pictures have gone AWOL on, but the web archive still has 
the relevant useful one at 
least: 
https://web.archive.org/web/20130925090125/http://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/maintenance/improve-your-sks-mudguard.html

On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 10:18:46 AM UTC-4, j glenn wrote:
>
> I've got SKS P35 Longboard  fenders over 28mm  Gravelkings on one bike.  
> Continental 28mm GP4000's where  too big and rubbed on the metal stay strap 
> the runs under the fender. I adjusted the fender line to get a bit more 
> clearance there and put the Gravelkings back on. I get a bit of rub when I 
> get out of the saddle to mash up a hill. I am not a small person though.  I 
> have  had thoughts of putting larger tires on the bike and larger  split 
> fenders. 
>
> On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 9:48:57 PM UTC-4, Dave Grossman wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking to add fenders to my Milwaukee Orange One single speed.  I 
>> have caliper brakes front and rear and can allegedly clear a 28 with 
>> fenders.  Anyone have a rec for an inexpensive but full coverage fender for 
>> these specs?
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Shimming a Bosco Bar?

[Zed Martinez]

I shimmed mine for a while. Worked fine, mechanically. Like every time I’ve 
used a shim, it was more prone to creaking and ticking over time. Otherwise it 
went fine. 

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[RBW] Re: Causes for bike noises

[Zed Martinez]

The weirdest and hardest to isolate ticking I ever fixed was the clamp 
sleeve on a pair of Bosco bars. Even with a clean, tight stem interface, 
there'd be a tick tick tick as I weighted and unweighted the bars. Only 
solved that one by dribbling a little blue Loctite around the sleeve's ends 
and pulsing it into the gap between the sleeve and the bar with an air 
compressor. Made a mess, but that bar was quiet forever after.

On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 4:31:12 PM UTC-4, Clark Fitzgerald wrote:
>
> Sheldon Brown has a great article on Creaks, Clicks, & Clunks 
> .
>
> Yesterday I fixed an annoying ticking noise that happened on most crank 
> rotations, but only in warm weather. The culprit turned out to be the 
> pedals, which I forgot to grease when I installed new pedals on new cranks. 
> Another bike I had (not a Rivendell) had a bad creaking noise that turned 
> out to be from the square taper bottom bracket that was installed at the 
> factory without grease.
>
> I'm curious- what annoying noises have others fixed on their bikes? What 
> caused it?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Admissions of Things You Ought to Have Known But Did Not: A Thread

[Zed Martinez]

I'm with Patrick on the tire mattering a lot. I ride more the utility/brick 
side of tires than he does (and consequently have developed a habit of 
leaning towards higher inflations rather than lower), and the optimum 
balance between 'feels slow' and 'starts bouncing' can deviate notably from 
Jan's calculation and the graph that Steve showed. Curiously, I keep all 
three of my bikes between 45-60 PSI (45-50 front, 60-ish rear). Except 
they're all three different total (bike+me+stuff) weights, tire widths, and 
tire types. My 3-spd roadster with its 35mm Delta Cruisers works out a a 
bit low per the formula but I like the comfort more over the speed at that 
inflation on that bike, inflated per the suggestion I think I can feel 
every pebble bounce me. My road-ish Centurion 650b conversion with its 38mm 
Soma New Xpress tires is a bit high but not by a lot. The real outlier is 
my Clem with its 50mm Schwalbe Mondials, which are drastically higher 
inflated at 45/60 than the formula would suggest, but any lower than that 
and I can actually feel the increased rolling resistance over my seven mile 
commute. Like I left my brake on, or about the same feeling as using my 
bottle dynamo on the 3-spd. It's notable. If I tried to ride those down as 
low as 30-40PSI like suggested I'd feel like I was stuck in the mud. At 60 
front and 70 rear they start getting that 'baseball' bouncy effect.

I always start with the formula's suggestion and then try 5-10 PSI over and 
5-10 PSI under and tweak where I actually leave it for any given tire based 
on where it felt slugglish and where it felt bouncey.

On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 10:48:41 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Wait: Leah weighs *less* than 170? Boy Steve, you blew that one.
>
> Back to tire pressure: I recall how as a boy I first saw "Inflate to 70 
> psi" on the side of my cheap 27 X 1.25" gumwalls, and after pumping them to 
> more or less that (probably per gas station gauge), how fast the bike felt, 
> and nope, it wasn't due to vibations, which has *never* been an indicator 
> of speed for me; it's always been ease, or perceived ease of pedaling, 
> along with a feeling of smoothness; ie bikes feel faster on smooth roads 
> than bumpy ones, all else equal.
>
> But the question of pressure relates to tire quality too. Cheap tires 
> really do go, or at least feel, faster when hard -- try riding a $15 
> Walmart 2" knobby at 35 psi! Pump it to 50 and it's much better. OTOH, I've 
> let really supple tires deflate potentially disastrous levels -- 
> 30-something psi on a 28 mm Elk Pass (I do weigh 50 lb less than 220) -- 
> and didn't notice that they were low until I started bouncing in the 
> saddle. Once I got a rear puncture and didn't notice it until someone 
> behind me noticed the flat profile and said, "Puncture!" She then asked, 
> "Didn't you notice it?" -- very surprised that such sagging hadn't caused 
> massive drag. But not, the Elk Pass feels normally fast even at pressures 
> way below appropriate.
>
> With the Big Ones, just as supple, I've not noticed mid-teens in the back 
> until sidewall flop in a corner almost causes me to wipe out.
>
> So there is a huge difference in the effect of air pressure on rolling 
> resistance when comparing top quality and cheap quality tires.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Admissions of Things You Ought to Have Known But Did Not: A Thread

[Zed Martinez]

In the real spirit of the thread, tires aside, my things I should have 
known was hubris management. After my first few bike builds I went into my 
original Clem pretty overconfident in myself, and I probably could've saved 
a couple of years of frustration and failed adjustments if I'd been less 
full of myself at the beginning and noticed more things like 'huh, the 
saddle keeps slipping down,' and more willing to just get a fitting once I 
got lost in the woods to give me a sanity check.

it was ultimately an expensive lesson, but, having learned it maybe the 
hardest way I could've set up for myself, it's one likely to stay with me. 
These days I remember there's somehow always a gap between feeling like one 
knows a lot, and actually knowing enough, and if I start by assuming I 
don't know enough it always goes better in the end than the reverse.

On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 11:17:31 AM UTC-4, Zed Martinez wrote:
>
> I'm with Patrick on the tire mattering a lot. I ride more the 
> utility/brick side of tires than he does (and consequently have developed a 
> habit of leaning towards higher inflations rather than lower), and the 
> optimum balance between 'feels slow' and 'starts bouncing' can deviate 
> notably from Jan's calculation and the graph that Steve showed. Curiously, 
> I keep all three of my bikes between 45-60 PSI (45-50 front, 60-ish rear). 
> Except they're all three different total (bike+me+stuff) weights, tire 
> widths, and tire types. My 3-spd roadster with its 35mm Delta Cruisers 
> works out a a bit low per the formula but I like the comfort more over the 
> speed at that inflation on that bike, inflated per the suggestion I think I 
> can feel every pebble bounce me. My road-ish Centurion 650b conversion with 
> its 38mm Soma New Xpress tires is a bit high but not by a lot. The real 
> outlier is my Clem with its 50mm Schwalbe Mondials, which are drastically 
> higher inflated at 45/60 than the formula would suggest, but any lower than 
> that and I can actually feel the increased rolling resistance over my seven 
> mile commute. Like I left my brake on, or about the same feeling as using 
> my bottle dynamo on the 3-spd. It's notable. If I tried to ride those down 
> as low as 30-40PSI like suggested I'd feel like I was stuck in the mud. At 
> 60 front and 70 rear they start getting that 'baseball' bouncy effect.
>
> I always start with the formula's suggestion and then try 5-10 PSI over 
> and 5-10 PSI under and tweak where I actually leave it for any given tire 
> based on where it felt slugglish and where it felt bouncey.
>
> On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 10:48:41 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Wait: Leah weighs *less* than 170? Boy Steve, you blew that one.
>>
>> Back to tire pressure: I recall how as a boy I first saw "Inflate to 70 
>> psi" on the side of my cheap 27 X 1.25" gumwalls, and after pumping them to 
>> more or less that (probably per gas station gauge), how fast the bike felt, 
>> and nope, it wasn't due to vibations, which has *never* been an 
>> indicator of speed for me; it's always been ease, or perceived ease of 
>> pedaling, along with a feeling of smoothness; ie bikes feel faster on 
>> smooth roads than bumpy ones, all else equal.
>>
>> But the question of pressure relates to tire quality too. Cheap tires 
>> really do go, or at least feel, faster when hard -- try riding a $15 
>> Walmart 2" knobby at 35 psi! Pump it to 50 and it's much better. OTOH, I've 
>> let really supple tires deflate potentially disastrous levels -- 
>> 30-something psi on a 28 mm Elk Pass (I do weigh 50 lb less than 220) -- 
>> and didn't notice that they were low until I started bouncing in the 
>> saddle. Once I got a rear puncture and didn't notice it until someone 
>> behind me noticed the flat profile and said, "Puncture!" She then asked, 
>> "Didn't you notice it?" -- very surprised that such sagging hadn't caused 
>> massive drag. But not, the Elk Pass feels normally fast even at pressures 
>> way below appropriate.
>>
>> With the Big Ones, just as supple, I've not noticed mid-teens in the back 
>> until sidewall flop in a corner almost causes me to wipe out.
>>
>> So there is a huge difference in the effect of air pressure on rolling 
>> resistance when comparing top quality and cheap quality tires.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Admissions of Things You Ought to Have Known But Did Not: A Thread

[Zed Martinez]

>
> Just for the record and for clarification, and not at all to disagree: by 
> "bouncing" one can mean the ping pong ball sort of bouncing that comes from 
> excessively high pressure, where even small bumps cause the tire to hop, or 
> on the contrary, the bouncing that comes from pedaling on a tire so soft 
> that it sags with each pedal stroke.


Too right. Riding my bricks I tend to forget some tires get bouncy on the 
under inflated side, my experience once it gets too low is more like 
walking on sponges, as if the bike is somehow sinking into the road as I 
pedal. Which I suppose is like bouncing in reverse, in a way.

On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 11:33:20 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Just for the record and for clarification, and not at all to disagree: by 
> "bouncing" one can mean the ping pong ball sort of bouncing that comes from 
> excessively high pressure, where even small bumps cause the tire to hop, or 
> on the contrary, the bouncing that comes from pedaling on a tire so soft 
> that it sags with each pedal stroke.
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:17 AM Zed Martinez  > wrote:
>
>> ... the optimum balance between 'feels slow' and 'starts bouncing' can 
>> deviate notably from Jan's calculation and the graph that Steve showed. 
>>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Zed Martinez]

I've only just used the Shimano 3N72, and only for a couple weeks now, but 
I went for it after a few people here expressed good experiences with them, 
and then finding this comparison online that showed the Shimanos were much 
much closer to the SONs than not these 
days: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/board/message/?message_id=143635

This one shows a bigger difference between the newer Shimano 3Nxx series 
and the SONs, but it was also just a lab test with the wheel and not 
measured on an actual bike on rollers like the other, so, I consider it 
more of a theoretical measurement 
set: https://www.cyclingabout.com/dynamo-hub-drag-lab-testing/

For the price difference, I still thought the performance trade-off between 
the SON and Shimano was one of diminishing returns and stopped putting off 
getting dynamo lighting until I could afford the SON wheel, myself. I don't 
really notice any difference with the lights off, and with them on I'd say 
I noticed half (maaaybe a third) as much drag as my roadster with a fairly 
well respected Nordlicht bottle dynamo gets. I don't know how that measures 
against the SON IRL, but it's fine enough for my needs. But, I'm somewhat 
famous for running my Clem like a hoss on fairly hefty tires, so, if you 
like to run lighter maybe the drag would be more obvious than it is for me?

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 12:06:29 AM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote:
>
> I was curious what folks experience are with the different dynamo hub 
> options.  The Schmidt Sonn Dynamo hub seem to set the standard but at a 
> high cost.  The other two I was looking at are Shutter Precision and the 
> Shimano Dynamo hubs.  Anyone seen a good comparison? Should I be concerned 
> with reliability if I went with something cheaper than the Schmidt hub?
>

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[RBW] Clem frame geometry differences

[Zed Martinez]

Depends now on H or L, the published geos for the Hs are still the same, if I 
remember right. The new Ls get longer effective top tubes, longer chainstays, 
and a slightly shallower headtube angle to match, I believe. 

If this works it should be a copy of the original 2015 geos for the Clems and 
you can compare with the size and style you’re looking at. 
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aqk-5-qi6X7DocAQz8vAreA6baZxSQ

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[RBW] Clem Smith Jr, 7 month and 2200 miles in

[Zed Martinez]

After switching from my original albastache build to boscos a while back 
and getting some more mileage and longer rides under me, I keep meaning to 
do a proper medium-term write-up on the Clem and just kept being too busy 
to do it. I finally had a quiet evening to sit down and apparently I had a 
lot more to say about my past 7 months with the Clem than I expected, so, 
I'll spare everyone the wall of text, but if you're 4,000 words curious 
about Riv's economy bruiser, boy do I have a blog post for you. 

The short version is: I probably could have just titled this 'How I Got 
Over My Own Hubris and Learned to Love the Bosco'

http://zedmartinez.com/2016/06/rivendell-clem-smith-jr/

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[RBW] Re: Upright road riders tell me your fit setup please.

[Zed Martinez]

1. Flat, mostly. Windy. Occasional hill.
2. Clem, Bosco, 100mm stem
2 again. Commuting and other vehicular cycling up to 60 miles a day on 
occasion
3. The angle of my saddle basically forms a continuous line going into the 
bars, so, bars a bit above saddle and ends of bars about even with saddle 
nose. B17, the C17 was too narrow sitting as upright as the Boscos for my 
sit bones. But that's going to be a you thing, some might even want a wider 
seat still. The other metrics are independent of the bars, your saddle 
should be at a height and fore/aft where your hips don't rock and you don't 
have pain on the top or bottom of any knee. I can also usually judge 
fore/aft by whether or not I have to force myself to slide back and not sit 
on the nose when pedaling with some force (as this tends to slide me 
naturally into an optimum leg extension). Adjust tilt until no rubbing in 
the soft bits. All of my bikes are at slightly different adjustments 
because of different saddles, pedals, seat angles, etc. Once you get your 
butt and knees happy, the reach is dialed in with stem. I like a 100mm on 
the Clem's long tube, on a Sam I'd probably start with a 120 for myself and 
see how it goes.
4. Rode all winter in 20mph winds and 40mph gusts, as low as 7 degrees F 
actual and somewhere in the negatives with wind chill. Long undies, wool 
base layer, a Showers Pass Amsterdam jacket, and rain pants over my pants 
pretty well kept the wind out. In the really cold stuff, two layers of long 
johns for the thighs and crotch.

On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 11:38:43 PM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> Thinking of trying Boscos on my Sam. I like my drops setups. But thinking 
> an upright setup will be fun for on-road riding, too. I do commuting, 
> errands, centuries, recreational on-road riding.
>
> But it is hilly around here and was wondering what you hilly upright 
> riders do for your upright bike setups that works for you.
>
> I know this is a highly individual thing, but interested to see what works 
> for you.
>
> Please mention:
> 1. Terrain you ride in.
> 2. What model bike and upright handlebar.
> 2. What type of on-road riding you do (commutes, errands, centuries, 
> brevets, touring, recreational road riding).
> 3. Fit:
>  a) Your bar height to saddle height
>  b) seat fore and aft (KOPS?, saddle slammed all the way back on 
> the rails Riv-style, etc.?)
>  c) saddle height ( I guess most of you use the Riv method of 
> PBH-11cm?).
>  d) what kinda saddle and how do you tilt it?
>
> 4. Also, what do you do in winter so you don't get blasted with wintry 
> blasts when riding? My thighs and shoulders get cranky when I ride too long 
> in the cold, and upright just opens them up to more direct wintry wind 
> punishment.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Smith Jr, 7 month and 2200 miles in

[Zed Martinez]

>
> but I suppose Riv Riders tend to buy up as the years go by anyway
>

You know, I thought about this too, and the thing with the Clem is you 
can't really buy up in the line from it, in a way. The Joe and Hunq are 
both similar in their ways, but not really the same. The Joe is lighter and 
has a much lighter fork especially. And even if the Hunq gets longer stays, 
it won't have the longer top tube that makes adjusting the reach on the 
Boscos so nice or the really open out of the saddle space the Clem has. On 
paper anyway, I haven't got to ride either in person and that is always 
capable of making the on-paper irrelevant :P I was talking with my buddy 
about it a long ride on Memorial Day, about how now that I had things 
dialed in I was having a real hard time understanding what a Hunq or an 
Atlantis (both rides I considered before the Clem preorder went up) would 
offer me other than lugs, and maybe now if anything what I'd want down the 
road is just a custom with Clemmy geo but fully lugged and with the full 
paint job, but then I'd probably get shy about using it like a daily 
workhorse like that and then that'd make me sad. 

But, like I said, it does have me considering a Sam to replace the lighter 
'stached build it replaced. But, I think I've got a couple more years of 
riding this one to pay myself back in sweat before I'm ready to finance 
that one. Which is good, I should be good and ready to appreciate a lighter 
ride buy then. Maybe with the Clem doing so well it'll even be the first 
bike I build where I stop at fenders and maybe a Mark's rack, and don't 
overbuild in the name of 'but what if 30 miles out I need to...'   

Michael, it was your comparison of the Clem and Joe and the Boscos there 
that made me go 'I had that exact opinion too just a very short time ago' 
and reminded me I keep not getting these thoughts down. I almost replied on 
your thread but didn't want to hijack it. So, glad it makes you want to try 
them, but really, thanks for being the seed that got me to write this.

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Re: [RBW] Clem Smith Jr, 7 month and 2200 miles in

[Zed Martinez]

nce racing bikes.
>
> I've also found long since that my left palm hurts after a few miles with 
> any but a drop bar. 
>
> But your review, and that of many others on this list, is beginning to 
> convince me that Grant has hit a sweet spot of design with sweep back bars, 
> long tts, and long chainstays. I'd really like to test ride a Clem or 
> Appaloosa. 
>
> So, once again, thanks for your excellent review.
>
> 2 addenda, or rather addita: 
>
> 1. Compass tires are so wonderful that it really is a shame to depreciate 
> their ride quality with liners. Please consider using Orange Seal in your 
> tubes.
>
> 2. I urge everyone to keep the wonderfullness of drop bars in mind. I 
> personally find them more comfortable than any other sort of bar -- I've 
> *not* use the Albastache, Bosco, and all the other post 2010 or so 
> sweepbacks that Rivendell has produced, so I am keeping an open mind about 
> these.
>
> But drop bars have been around for well over 100 years for very good 
> reasons, and some of the more recent resuscitations produced by Compass and 
> Velo Orange -- I have particularly in mind the Maes Parallel and the Rando 
> type bars (VO's nomenclature is somewhat different than Compasses) are 
> exceptionally and superlatively comfortable. I use the Maes Parallel or VO 
> copy on all 3 of my customs (the 3d is a Matthews "road bike for dirt). 
> Please keep in mind (all you who read this) that drop bars can be 
> superlatively comfortable if well designed and well positioned. 
>
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Patrick Moore  > wrote:
>
>> I'm in the middle of your review, and I think it is very well done, but I 
>> interrupt myself here to say:
>>
>> DON'T USE TIRE LINERS!!! My God, man! No tire liners on *Compass 
>> tires* Use Orange Seal in your tubes instead. 
>>
>> I very briefly used Mr Tuffys with non-Tourguard Paselas, and after about 
>> 1 commute, took them out -- I could feel the drag.
>>
>> More in the offing.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 8:36 PM, Zed Martinez > > wrote:
>>
>>> After switching from my original albastache build to boscos a while back 
>>> and getting some more mileage and longer rides under me, I keep meaning to 
>>> do a proper medium-term write-up on the Clem and just kept being too busy 
>>> to do it. I finally had a quiet evening to sit down and apparently I had a 
>>> lot more to say about my past 7 months with the Clem than I expected, so, 
>>> I'll spare everyone the wall of text, but if you're 4,000 words curious 
>>> about Riv's economy bruiser, boy do I have a blog post for you. 
>>>
>>> The short version is: I probably could have just titled this 'How I Got 
>>> Over My Own Hubris and Learned to Love the Bosco'
>>>
>>> http://zedmartinez.com/2016/06/rivendell-clem-smith-jr/
>>>
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>>> .
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>> *
>> ***
>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
>> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
>> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>>
>> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the 
>> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>>
>> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>>
>> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedi

Re: [RBW] Clem Smith Jr, 7 month and 2200 miles in

[Zed Martinez]

I gotta stop repyling to these things after a certain time of night ;) 
Thanks for the grammar reminder. I think I meant people being *chafed* by 
the idea of liners, and then I read your other post and my typing took a 
detour on me. 

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[RBW] Re: Any benefits to the longer CS's?

[Zed Martinez]

I'd have to measure my roadster to compare, maybe I'll do so when I get 
home. It's not a short bike, but not as long as the Clem certainly. I feel 
like the BB drop plus the Sylvans is still most of it though, it's only 
been a problem when I'm turning on a grade. With a BB drop of 67, and a 
theoretical wheel radius with tire of 340, that leaves me 273mm clearance. 
My crank arms are 170mm, so, that only leaves 103mm. I'm not sure how tall 
the Sylvan is, but, that makes the ground clearance under 4" before I even 
start turning, and with a pedal that wide, I guess I'm not surprised it 
strikes if I'm making a 90º turn at the top of a few degrees grade. Not 
sure if the chain stays really come into it. I'll measure my other upright 
bike when I get home, it also has 170mm arms and Sylvans, but isn't nice 
enough to spec its BB drop for me online. I can say it's already got a 6mm 
advantage though, being 700cx35 instead of 650bx48. Ah well, not worth 
speculating, I can just measure'em later and see, but I think my money is 
more on the frame-proportoinal wheel sizes combined with those low drops.

On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 11:49:41 AM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>
> You know one thing that's been perplexing me on my Clementine is the 
> amount of pedal strike I've been getting.  Odd because,  the BB drop, crank 
> length, etc. isn't really measurably different from several other bikes I 
> own that I have no such issue with!?
> Then this morning I was reading Zed's review and he mentioned pedal strike 
> as well! (And here I thought it was just me) Something about the way I 
> built it!? Then the light bulb went on! The long chain stays/wheel base are 
> contribuing to the pedal strike problem! Ah! Makes perfect sense now!
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any benefits to the longer CS's?

[Zed Martinez]

>
> The further the wheels are apart the more likely that a bump or object can 
> stick up between them and you pedal can hit it while it rotates around.


That actually sounds about right to me. Most of my pedal strikes have been 
when cresting a short rise at a T onto the local trail that gets suddenly 
steep the last two feet or so, so on my Clem the front wheel and rear are 
often on different sides of that crest. Makes sense to me, hearing someone 
else say it. 

On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 4:26:18 PM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>
> Actually,  the problem I am having is more of an issue with uneven 
> surfaces, although the turning plays into it as well. The further the 
> wheels are apart the more likely that a bump or object can stick up between 
> them and you pedal can hit it while it rotates around.  Generally,  you you 
> anticipate this and level your pedals until you clear that area, but in 
> said circumstance mentioned earlier with getting the front wheel over 
> objects,  many times I will clear it with my front wheel to find my pedals 
> strike the object which tends to suddenly stop me dead in my tracks! I used 
> to race mountain bikes so I have fair bike handling skills,  I don't have 
> this issue on any other bike and generally not on the Clementine,  but it 
> does bite me from time to time. I've also scraped the pedals on speed bumps 
> which is odd, because I've never had an issue hitting them before.  Ive 
> learned my lesson though,  haven't done that in a while. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any benefits to the longer CS's?

[Zed Martinez]

I'm running Switchbacks Mark, but mine's totally just noob mistakes. I 
never pedal through turns, but I'd also never had a bike where I had to pay 
any particular thought to raising the inside pedal before the turn. I mean, 
I've scraped the end of a few before, but on the Clem that sucker just 
slammed into the ground and about knocked the bike over the first time I 
took that little crest lazily. In my case, I guess I didn't so much have to 
raise my cornering game as bother to bring one at all. Like masmojo, quick 
to adjust for it, but yeah. It probably does come down to both the lowish 
BB and the tendency for the wheels to straddle obstacles. No big deal at 
all, if amusing for trail users when I forget, but definitely a thing I had 
to start paying attention to for the first time as just a commuter.

On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 5:01:29 PM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> Hmm. I have not been riding the Clementine off road and I doubt I have 
> your off-road skills. I can see where the bike could get "hung up" 
> especially on a grade. But speed bumps with no lean, that would be purely a 
> bb height issue, no? Are you guys both running the Compass Switchbacks? Are 
> they appreciably less tall than the stock Kendas?
>
> On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 4:26:18 PM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>>
>> Actually,  the problem I am having is more of an issue with uneven 
>> surfaces, although the turning plays into it as well. The further the 
>> wheels are apart the more likely that a bump or object can stick up between 
>> them and you pedal can hit it while it rotates around.  Generally,  you you 
>> anticipate this and level your pedals until you clear that area, but in 
>> said circumstance mentioned earlier with getting the front wheel over 
>> objects,  many times I will clear it with my front wheel to find my pedals 
>> strike the object which tends to suddenly stop me dead in my tracks! I used 
>> to race mountain bikes so I have fair bike handling skills,  I don't have 
>> this issue on any other bike and generally not on the Clementine,  but it 
>> does bite me from time to time. I've also scraped the pedals on speed bumps 
>> which is odd, because I've never had an issue hitting them before.  Ive 
>> learned my lesson though,  haven't done that in a while. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Smith Jr, 7 month and 2200 miles in

[Zed Martinez]

Hey Patrick. I have a picture here for 
reference: https://www.flickr.com/photos/zedmartinez/25692901481/

I use the usual primary grip area on mine for slow, casual, or street 
riding. When I'm at crusing speed, I use the bend with the knobs. I am 100% 
certain I would not enjoy using that grip without them, because I would be 
constantly sliding forwards and that'd be hard on my forearm muscles. On 
top of the brake lever clamp is a nice inbetween I use sometimes to change 
what part of my hand is getting pressure, and I find I can rotate my hands 
closer to the tops of the bar and not the sides while I'm there, which can 
give my wrists a break. At the stem I prefer as wide as I can get with the 
outer blades of my hands sitting against the rises.

It's worth pointing out that I'm only using a 10cm quill. I think if I had 
the extra 2cm the bullmoose does I would find the knobs/flats grips too far 
away for me to really maximize their comfort. There was definitely a point 
in the adjustment where they were too far away (oddly because they were too 
high at that time) and they didn't speak to me at all. I guess I could add 
to the criticisms of the complete Clem package that the bullmoose negates 
the benefit of the long TT in letting you dial in the reach with a stem, 
and locks you in to only doing it by height which does have the side effect 
of making the primary grip the only one that might be fully comfortable for 
some riders and adjustments, where as a Bosco plus separate stem would let 
the reach be dialed in independent of the height, or rather in tandem with 
it.

On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:30:16 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Question for those of you with Clem/entine Boscos:
>
> What hand positions do you use for what situations?
>
> My daughters ride nearly all the time in the full upright position. They 
> can switch and have tried other hand positions, but find it disconcerting 
> to do so. They are still growing into the frame (a medium and they are at 
> the upper end of small in sizing now), so that could be contributing to 
> their discomfort in the two forward positions. They describe the near the 
> stem forward position as very twitchy (at it looks it). 
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Smith Jr, 7 month and 2200 miles in

[Zed Martinez]

OK, I remembered how to set my camera for intervals and once the lens 
cleared up because dang it's humid out there, I got some shots of 1) my 
setup as close to proper Riv non-wide angle level as I could in a hurry, so 
you can see my relationship of saddle and stem height and all that goodness 
for how I like the Boscos dialed in. 2) Me riding in the main upright grip 
3) Me on the knobs and 4) me on the flats with a little tuck going on. 4 
was hard to to time and show me in the posture I tend to be in but also 
centered right in the frame. 

http://zedmartinez.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/boscos.jpg

I think using Thorn's posture system because it's my favorite being 
independent of bar type as it is, that give me Very Relaxed, Relaxed, and 
Fairly Sporty maybe as my 3 main 
postures? 
http://zedmartinez.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/CapturFiles-201606174_1806.png

Patrick, I would say pondering it as I took these photos and on my ride 
home, I think for that last one to work I need the Boscos closer and lower. 
That's basically a flat bar stance and so far I've always found that to be 
most comfortable when the stem clamp is at or below the saddle height, and 
with a longer stem I would need it to be a couple inches higher than the 
saddle to get the same reach, and by that point I find I'm sticking my arms 
more straight out and my triceps get really tired, I need to be able to 
lean my weight down onto the bar in that stance for it to really get 
comfortable for me. 

I will also say it's pretty narrow and not great for accelerating from a 
stop, at stops I'll bounce up into the primary grip and then usually 
accelerate from the bends/knobs because I can curl my fingers around there 
very naturally and pull up some on the bar to keep me ground as I mash if I 
choose to do so standing on the pedals as opposed to spinning up. If I'm 
spinning up I'll stay in the primary grip where I can shift faster. 

Hope any of that helps anyone any.

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[RBW] Re: A bit offtopic discussion of RivBike's shipping times

[Zed Martinez]

I work for a company that does internet and mail-order. We don't use USPS 
for much of anything unless the customer signs off on it because even when 
you have a tracking and guarantee they're not worth much if the package 
gets lost or delayed, and delayed packages are much more the norm than not 
when we do use them. UPS and FedEx cost more, but their tracking works and 
they have much more accountability when something goes wrong. If Riv's 
experience has been similar in the least I don't blame them for choosing 
safe but expensive, I'd do the same thing.

On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 6:22:49 PM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Ordered gloves, ferrules, a couple washers..
>
> $9 for surepost.
>
> And estimate delivery? July 1st. Ridiculous, right?
>
> All of those items would fit into a flat rate envelope and be here in 3 
> days vis USPS.
>
> Grant, hope you and others are listening.
>
>
> Thoughts everyone?
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell NY media hit

[Zed Martinez]

I've got a grassy hill pretty similar to that one from the ride out here, 
clearly I should make sure I have the nerve to descend it before I get out 
there for a ride.

-Zed 'jealous of that idyllic scenery' Martinez

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 9:48:56 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Of course: http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/
>
> Interesting read.
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
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> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the 
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clems/tines on the Way!

[Zed Martinez]

Oooh. Lucky. I haven't got my call yet and now I'm all excited and antsy.

On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 10:59:22 AM UTC-4, Wayne Naha wrote:
>
> After checking my phone, I find that there is a voicemail from Riv wanting 
> to confirm my shipping address.  I'll be calling them back today!
>
> On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 10:36:13 AM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote:
>>
>> I went with gray, hemmed and hawed after I made that decision, because 
>> all the colors look great, but stuck with it. Riv said 2 weeks or less 
>> until they have them, then they'll need to sort through them to get them 
>> shipped out, plus shipping time.
>> Hopefully I'll have mine by the first week of November. I've got plenty 
>> of bikes to ride in the meantime, so I'm ok if there's any delays along the 
>> way.
>> David
>> Chicago
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clems have shipped!

[Zed Martinez]

Second day here too. Fingers crossed for both of us yet this week ;)


On Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 8:12:11 PM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote:
>
> Hope that's how it goes. I ordered the day after they were announced, so 
> hopefully that gets me very close to the front of the line as well.
> David
> Chicago
>
> On Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 6:59:04 PM UTC-5, Edwin W wrote:
>>
>> When I talked to them they said they would be shipping them in order of 
>> when they were bought. So you must have been front of the line. 
>> They did say I was pretty close, so it should be pretty soon. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clems have shipped!

[Zed Martinez]

I called last week and asked and Kevin checked and said the headset, bottom 
bracket, and seat post were all still included. So, they should be.

On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 6:43:07 PM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote:
>
> Edwin,
> Thanks for that. They look nice.
> To other frameset preorderers,
> A seatpost is included, correct? I didn't happen to see one get pulled out 
> of the box in that video. Not a biggie, just have everything else ready to 
> go except that.
> David
> Chicago
>
> On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 5:06:19 PM UTC-5, Edwin W wrote:
>>
>> Just posted on the Blug:
>> http://rivbike.tumblr.com/
>> "For anyone in the initial Clem preorder (framesets), we’re shipping 
>> them out starting today. They look great. The earliest of adopters got an 
>> unexpected treat of creamed fork crowns. They look real nice. Here’s a 
>> phone video of how the rinko headset works. All you need is a big 
>> adjustable wrench. "
>> Supense is killing me...
>>
>> On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 5:02:33 PM UTC-5, Pudge wrote:
>>>
>>> Me, too – I'm wondering if the folks (like me) who are getting frames 
>>> only are at the back of the shipping line.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *David Banzer
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 26, 2015 5:46 PM
>>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch
>>> *Subject:* [RBW] Re: Clems have shipped!
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Anybody else get confirmation that there Clem/entine has shipped? 
>>> Getting antsy as the weather's still nice here and I'd like to get my 
>>> frameset built up asap. I ordered on the day after the presale was 
>>> announced, so I'd assume that I'd be one of the first to have mine shipped.
>>> David
>>> Chicago
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 4:44:32 PM UTC-5, David Banzer wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe it comes with tig-welded Bosco bullmoose bars - functionally 
>>> the same as what Riv sells individually, except not fillet brazed for the 
>>> very smooth joint.
>>> David
>>> Chicago
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 3:35:53 PM UTC-5, Reid wrote:
>>>
>>> It came with the bull moose bars, too? Interesting.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Reid
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 1:17:43 PM UTC-5, El Sapo wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> That's the way it comes, everything but the Brooks seat came with the 
>>> bike. Grips and kickstand included. 
>>>
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>>> This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the 
>>> addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or 
>>> confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this 
>>> email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or 
>>> copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. 
>>> If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 
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[RBW] Re: Clems have shipped!

[Zed Martinez]

Just got my own call and email from Riv, one 52cm green Clem frameset on 
its way to me, and a pile of parts waiting in my basement that couldn't be 
happier to hear it.

On Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 7:17:26 PM UTC-4, Wayne Naha wrote:
>
> I just got an email from Riv informing me that my bike is on the way! 
>  W00t!
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clems have shipped!

[Zed Martinez]

If you haven't encountered rinko before, it's a pretty cool thing. Doubt 
it'll ever be quite so useful in the US, but heck, I had still planned to 
upgrade to a rinko headset on my Clem anyway, so this was perfect. The 
basic idea is to make a bike that can quickly be broken down to fit in a 
special bag to carry on the trains. The headset uses semi-sealed bearings 
so you can take the whole fork out for that process without losing them or 
having to spend forever at the end readjusting it. There's a lot about it 
online, but a decent overview of the practice if not this specific style of 
headset is this one from 
BQ: http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/BQ_rinko.pdf

On Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 12:16:02 PM UTC-4, BSWP wrote:
>
> Thanks, Bill. I guess everybody in the biz must know that about the Rinko 
> headsets! Sounds like a good innovation, to use cartridge bearings, and I 
> guess it's fair to assume they're pre-greased.
>
> - Andrew "why am I always the last to know?", Berkeley
>
> On Wednesday, October 28, 2015 at 2:43:04 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Those rinko headsets have a cartridge bearing that is sitting inside the 
>> cups, similar, but not identical to Shimano.  With Shimanos, the cartridge 
>> falls right out.  With 'normal' ball bearing headsets there's a ring with 
>> ball bearings that you slather with grease and install.  The headset on 
>> your Clem will have the cartridge bearings in there already.  That's why 
>> there seemed to be a missing step.  
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 28, 2015 at 1:49:19 PM UTC-7, Wayne Naha wrote:
>>>
>>> I noticed the same thing.  The bearing install was definitely skipped 
>>> over.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 28, 2015 at 4:19:09 PM UTC-4, BSWP wrote:

 Hmmm... watching the video, I wonder, how did the fork bearings get in 
 there? They came already packed in grease, in the cups, in the frame?

 - Andrew, Berkeley

>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clems have shipped!

[Zed Martinez]

Bob, please do! I need something to get me through the long weekend waiting 
on mine. Pictures always help.

On Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 10:05:18 PM UTC-4, Bob Ehrenbeck wrote:
>
> Hey Tim,
>
> I do have some more Clem photos; I hope to put them up on my Flickr soon.
>
> Bob
>
> On Wednesday, October 28, 2015 at 11:41:17 PM UTC-4, Tim Wood wrote:
>>
>> Look at that grey!! Can't wait. I'm sure I'm biased but the 59 Clem's 
>> look proportionately just right. Do you have any more Clem photos from your 
>> visit?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa geometry

[Zed Martinez]

Chris, last year on the Blug there was a prototype of this that as near as 
I can tell here plotting it out in Illustrator had the same proportions as 
the final 62cm Appaloosa, and they actually built it up with an old-school 
bullmoose and not the bosco-sweepy 
ones: 
http://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/79299784498/long-strong-new-blue-lotsa-lugs-62cms-122
 
I'll let you know after I try it on the Clem next week with an albastache, 
but as near as I can tell from the geometry and from another bike I have 
with a 60mm real top tube (a Simcoe roadster), there's no reason these new 
frames couldn't be built up with "flat" bars for a more mountain-bikey 
posture if you don't mind a little leaning (I prefer it to bolt upright). 
The only thing they require is that the handlebars have to be high (but the 
long reach means despite being high you don't lose the leaning you would 
have with lower closer bars on a traditional frame), and at least on the 
Clems but maybe less on the Appaloosas with their shorter by a smidge top 
tubes an implied non-use of drops. Still, I think with the long top tubes 
and high bars they look perfectly suited to lesser sweep upright and flat 
bars too, personally. I'll report back on if that blows up on me with the 
Clem, since these Appaloosas seem to have been the inspiration for the Clem 
geometries.

On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 9:56:07 AM UTC-4, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:
>
> I've never owned a Riv but as a potential future buyer, I strongly prefer 
> the Atlantis/Bombadil/Hunqapillar line of bikes over the Clem and 
> Appaloosa.  I have reservations about the super long chainstays but mostly 
> my reservations revolve around the move to designing bikes for bars with 
> huge rise and sweep-back.  I like traditional MTB bars with 9-10 degrees of 
> backsweep and up to about 40mm of rise and I like more of my weight planted 
> on the front wheel.  I don't know if the new models would work well for me 
> in this area.  
>
> I just wish RBW would make a less expensive version of those bikes offered 
> as a frameset rather than the direction they are currently going. 
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 11:33:06 PM UTC-5, El Sapo wrote:
>>
>> Yea, I'd really like to have that Joe. It's a great looking bike and I 
>> really like those handlebars. It's also a great price.
>>
>> I don't think it's the Clem owners who should have any regrets, it's the 
>> Bomba and Hunq owners. That Joe is about half their price? This Joe 
>> could have an impact on the Riv resale market. I was convinced a Clem was 
>> better than my 80's mountain bikes, (IT"S WAY BETTER), now couldn't a brand 
>> new Joe be better than a used Hunq, or Bomba?  
>>
>>  
>> On Wednesday, October 28, 2015 at 8:35:10 PM UTC-7, Tim Wood wrote:
>>
>>> Any Clem buyers regretting their decision? I'm waiting for my 59 Clem 
>>> but the 58 Joe seems appealing. A lot of the same positive features (long 
>>> chain stays, tire clearance, high bars, load carrying capacity), but it 
>>> seems the joe could be set up as a drop bar fast tourer. I feel like the 
>>> Clem geometries prevent it from being a go fast or drop bar bike, but that 
>>> being said I haven't even ridden it yet. The joe is obviously in a 
>>> different price bracket and I don't see the purpose of owning both one day 
>>> due to their similarities. I'm just going to love my Clem and have fun 
>>> riding it, that hasn't changed.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa geometry

[Zed Martinez]

Sweet! Glad to hear it Kurt, and nice seeing it again. I just keep 
remembering that bike whenever the Appaloosa/Clem talk turns to how they 
need to have sweepy bars ;) I just keep thinking how much I'd rather have 
that setup with the more mountainy posture.

On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 10:57:32 AM UTC-4, Kurt Manley wrote:
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kvURmaOaZ10/VjOFSVmFxPI/ARY/L9n7ddk1L3M/s1600/bike.png>
> That's my bike and it works great with regular bullmoose bars!
>
> On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 7:38:56 AM UTC-7, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>
>> Chris, last year on the Blug there was a prototype of this that as near 
>> as I can tell here plotting it out in Illustrator had the same proportions 
>> as the final 62cm Appaloosa, and they actually built it up with an 
>> old-school bullmoose and not the bosco-sweepy ones: 
>> http://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/79299784498/long-strong-new-blue-lotsa-lugs-62cms-122
>>  
>> I'll let you know after I try it on the Clem next week with an albastache, 
>> but as near as I can tell from the geometry and from another bike I have 
>> with a 60mm real top tube (a Simcoe roadster), there's no reason these new 
>> frames couldn't be built up with "flat" bars for a more mountain-bikey 
>> posture if you don't mind a little leaning (I prefer it to bolt upright). 
>> The only thing they require is that the handlebars have to be high (but the 
>> long reach means despite being high you don't lose the leaning you would 
>> have with lower closer bars on a traditional frame), and at least on the 
>> Clems but maybe less on the Appaloosas with their shorter by a smidge top 
>> tubes an implied non-use of drops. Still, I think with the long top tubes 
>> and high bars they look perfectly suited to lesser sweep upright and flat 
>> bars too, personally. I'll report back on if that blows up on me with the 
>> Clem, since these Appaloosas seem to have been the inspiration for the Clem 
>> geometries.
>>
>> On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 9:56:07 AM UTC-4, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:
>>>
>>> I've never owned a Riv but as a potential future buyer, I strongly 
>>> prefer the Atlantis/Bombadil/Hunqapillar line of bikes over the Clem and 
>>> Appaloosa.  I have reservations about the super long chainstays but mostly 
>>> my reservations revolve around the move to designing bikes for bars with 
>>> huge rise and sweep-back.  I like traditional MTB bars with 9-10 degrees of 
>>> backsweep and up to about 40mm of rise and I like more of my weight planted 
>>> on the front wheel.  I don't know if the new models would work well for me 
>>> in this area.  
>>>
>>> I just wish RBW would make a less expensive version of those bikes 
>>> offered as a frameset rather than the direction they are currently going. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 11:33:06 PM UTC-5, El Sapo wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yea, I'd really like to have that Joe. It's a great looking bike and I 
>>>> really like those handlebars. It's also a great price.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think it's the Clem owners who should have any regrets, it's 
>>>> the Bomba and Hunq owners. That Joe is about half their price? This Joe 
>>>> could have an impact on the Riv resale market. I was convinced a Clem was 
>>>> better than my 80's mountain bikes, (IT"S WAY BETTER), now couldn't a 
>>>> brand 
>>>> new Joe be better than a used Hunq, or Bomba?  
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>> On Wednesday, October 28, 2015 at 8:35:10 PM UTC-7, Tim Wood wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Any Clem buyers regretting their decision? I'm waiting for my 59 Clem 
>>>>> but the 58 Joe seems appealing. A lot of the same positive features (long 
>>>>> chain stays, tire clearance, high bars, load carrying capacity), but it 
>>>>> seems the joe could be set up as a drop bar fast tourer. I feel like the 
>>>>> Clem geometries prevent it from being a go fast or drop bar bike, but 
>>>>> that 
>>>>> being said I haven't even ridden it yet. The joe is obviously in a 
>>>>> different price bracket and I don't see the purpose of owning both one 
>>>>> day 
>>>>> due to their similarities. I'm just going to love my Clem and have fun 
>>>>> riding it, that hasn't changed.
>>>>
>>>>

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[RBW] Re: Let's See Some Clem/Clementine Pics

[Zed Martinez]

I've got a 52cm green frame in the stand right now about half built, hoping 
to finish it tonight. The green came out pretty much exactly like the 
pre-production demos showed. Sorry the pic in the stand is blurry, it was 
late and I took it in a hurry last night.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=C37EE9A2EAE73EA9!454124&authkey=!AJFYm5zGTQyGk3U&ithint=album%2c

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 12:30:06 PM UTC-5, RDS wrote:
>
> I was just curious to see how all of the colors turned out for each 
> model.  Please, let's see some pics whether bike or frame.
>

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[RBW] Re: Let's See Some Clem/Clementine Pics

[Zed Martinez]

Updated my photos with the complete build done (except wrapping the bars, 
it's my couple days of fiddling with fit and dialing it in before that). 
Tim, that Surly Nice Rack just barely fits, but fits it does. Had to max 
out the bracket heights and it just barely caught braze-ons. Can't use it 
on the upper braze-on at the fork end, it'll block QRs, so you have to 
mount it where the fender would go and then mount the fender to the lower 
rack bracket instead. Not a big deal, I've done that on the last two bikes 
that rack lived on too. It's a tight fit at the mid fork ones, so, I 
wrapped them with some tape first to minimize scraping and scuffing, but 
all in all, was actually the easiest time I've ever had installing that 
rack.

Got in to work this morning and a coworker who admires Riv bikes and has 
been waiting to see mine caught me at the door and insisted on getting my 
photo with it. It's a nice looking rig all built up, but it'll take me a 
couple more rides to get used to how it rides. With the albastache I have 
about the same lean to the bars I did on my 650b Rivenfried mid-80's Fuji 
this replaces, except the bars are like 5" higher up. My body is confused 
because half of it's like my previous build and half is like my 3-speed 
roadster. Rides pretty well though. Those Switchback Hill tires are dreams, 
I tell ya. A little prone to wobble no-handed, I need to check the headset 
adjustment and wheel stabilizer tension tonight. Otherwise, it's off to a 
promising start.

https://onedrive.live.com/?id=C37EE9A2EAE73EA9%21454124&cid=C37EE9A2EAE73EA9&group=0&authkey=%21AJFYm5zGTQyGk3U&v=photos

Link again to the photos, just to save scrolling back and 
what-not: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rbw-owners-bunch/bDrtVdwnZbs

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 1:10:44 PM UTC-5, Tim Wood wrote:
>
> Looks good Zed, nice build. I'm curious to see how the front surly rack 
> looks on there, keep the photos coming!

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[RBW] Re: Let's See Some Clem/Clementine Pics

[Zed Martinez]

Mark: usually around 68cm or so. Depends on the shoes and pedals I use most 
with the bike. I seem to like my saddle about 1-2cm lower than Grant's 
method would recommend, but I definitely start getting some numbness and 
hot patches in the balls of my feet if I have the saddle up that little 
extra. Haven't measured this one yet, still dialing in the final. The 
fenders are the SKS P55 ones. They just fit a charm with the 48mm 
SwitchbackHills, which are the fattest road tires I plan to run. Wider will 
be knobbies and I'll take the fenders off.

iamkeith: I'm hoping it works, because I love the shape of the albastache 
and how my hands drift and move across it better than any other bar, and 
all the current alternatives from Riv suit me less (they generally have too 
much rise near the bends which is really a sweet spot for me when I'm on a 
good cruise, kick my wrist at weird angles and they start getting weird 
fast. Curse my finicky wrists). That new choco-moose looks like it could be 
a good solution for that down the road, much flatter through the bends, I'd 
probably like that. Mostly, I have a roadster with north roads on it that 
fall between the albastache and the albatross bars, and I find myself 
wishing it let me go farther forward more often than I use it all the way 
back on the grips, so, yeah, I'm hoping this splits that difference more. 
Haven't ruled out needed to go to a 80mm Dirt Drop for the effective 65mm 
reach instead of my 80mm Technomic though to really pull it off. I'll give 
it the rest of the week and see if I settle into it. It's a neat posture, 
you're way up in the air but still leaning a fair chunk forwards. I want to 
like it, and nothing hurt or went numb, so, I think it'll work one way or 
another.

Bill: Whew, I tried. This is the third iteration of a project I've been 
building and rebuilding around different frames the past two years. It 
hasn't made it out on tour yet, but the stuff that I had on hand has 
certainly survived the trials by fire to get here ;) I ran continuous 
shifting because I ride year 'round in the midwest and I've had a couple 
winters where slush and muck would get into the rear housing by the drop 
and then promptly freeze 5 minutes after taking it out in the morning, 
sticking me with a rather unwieldly 3 speed until I got to the office to 
thaw it. It's just easier to run it continuous and have to change it out 
less often, and I never miss a shift now no matter the temp. I haven't 
tried the brakes yet, but they have a good inch or so they can drop before 
they hit the rack, so, they will /probably/ work. But, if not, I'll live. 
Usually if the front wheel is coming out it's flat anyway so it won't be a 
major hindrance. But it should. I'll try tonight and report back.

On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 12:47:25 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Looks like you thought of just about everything.  Best wishes getting 
> acquainted.  
>
> Why did you run continuous shift housing all the way back to the Rear Der? 
>  
> Do your front brakes QR open enough to get your front wheel out?  Or does 
> the rack get in the way?  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 6:32:25 AM UTC-8, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>
>> Updated my photos with the complete build done (except wrapping the bars, 
>> it's my couple days of fiddling with fit and dialing it in before that). 
>> Tim, that Surly Nice Rack just barely fits, but fits it does. Had to max 
>> out the bracket heights and it just barely caught braze-ons. Can't use it 
>> on the upper braze-on at the fork end, it'll block QRs, so you have to 
>> mount it where the fender would go and then mount the fender to the lower 
>> rack bracket instead. Not a big deal, I've done that on the last two bikes 
>> that rack lived on too. It's a tight fit at the mid fork ones, so, I 
>> wrapped them with some tape first to minimize scraping and scuffing, but 
>> all in all, was actually the easiest time I've ever had installing that 
>> rack.
>>
>> Got in to work this morning and a coworker who admires Riv bikes and has 
>> been waiting to see mine caught me at the door and insisted on getting my 
>> photo with it. It's a nice looking rig all built up, but it'll take me a 
>> couple more rides to get used to how it rides. With the albastache I have 
>> about the same lean to the bars I did on my 650b Rivenfried mid-80's Fuji 
>> this replaces, except the bars are like 5" higher up. My body is confused 
>> because half of it's like my previous build and half is like my 3-speed 
>> roadster. Rides pretty well though. Those Switchback Hill tires are dreams, 
>>

[RBW] Re: Let's See Some Clem/Clementine Pics

[Zed Martinez]

Bill, just had a chance to check and I can release those VO Grand Cru 
cantilevers and they more than easily clear the tires even with that Surly 
rack stopping them. Plenty of clearance. Which, really seems to be the 
raison d'etre of the Clems.

On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 12:47:25 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Looks like you thought of just about everything.  Best wishes getting 
> acquainted.  
>
> Why did you run continuous shift housing all the way back to the Rear Der? 
>  
> Do your front brakes QR open enough to get your front wheel out?  Or does 
> the rack get in the way?  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 6:32:25 AM UTC-8, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>
>> Updated my photos with the complete build done (except wrapping the bars, 
>> it's my couple days of fiddling with fit and dialing it in before that). 
>> Tim, that Surly Nice Rack just barely fits, but fits it does. Had to max 
>> out the bracket heights and it just barely caught braze-ons. Can't use it 
>> on the upper braze-on at the fork end, it'll block QRs, so you have to 
>> mount it where the fender would go and then mount the fender to the lower 
>> rack bracket instead. Not a big deal, I've done that on the last two bikes 
>> that rack lived on too. It's a tight fit at the mid fork ones, so, I 
>> wrapped them with some tape first to minimize scraping and scuffing, but 
>> all in all, was actually the easiest time I've ever had installing that 
>> rack.
>>
>> Got in to work this morning and a coworker who admires Riv bikes and has 
>> been waiting to see mine caught me at the door and insisted on getting my 
>> photo with it. It's a nice looking rig all built up, but it'll take me a 
>> couple more rides to get used to how it rides. With the albastache I have 
>> about the same lean to the bars I did on my 650b Rivenfried mid-80's Fuji 
>> this replaces, except the bars are like 5" higher up. My body is confused 
>> because half of it's like my previous build and half is like my 3-speed 
>> roadster. Rides pretty well though. Those Switchback Hill tires are dreams, 
>> I tell ya. A little prone to wobble no-handed, I need to check the headset 
>> adjustment and wheel stabilizer tension tonight. Otherwise, it's off to a 
>> promising start.
>>
>>
>> https://onedrive.live.com/?id=C37EE9A2EAE73EA9%21454124&cid=C37EE9A2EAE73EA9&group=0&authkey=%21AJFYm5zGTQyGk3U&v=photos
>>
>> Link again to the photos, just to save scrolling back and what-not: 
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rbw-owners-bunch/bDrtVdwnZbs
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 1:10:44 PM UTC-5, Tim Wood wrote:
>>>
>>> Looks good Zed, nice build. I'm curious to see how the front surly rack 
>>> looks on there, keep the photos coming!
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Let's See Some Clem/Clementine Pics

[Zed Martinez]

Edwin. the beefier ones are M6, I actually weird was already used to that 
because my previous frame did that too. (to others reading in, the two rack 
mounts immediately forwards of the drops are M6, all the other braze-ons 
are M5)  So, my rack stays were already drilled out for the larger bolt and 
it was pretty easy for my attempt. Luckily the Lowes out here finally 
started carrying stainless metric hex cap bolts, so, while the price each 
was highway robbery I upgraded from the black steel ones I'd been using 
previously to some nice stainless for this. I didn't have any problems with 
the head tube, my Technomic can sink pretty deep into it, so, no idea how 
to help you there, but I wish you best of luck sorting it out! Looking 
forward to seeing pics of more builds come out.

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 2:29:19 AM UTC-5, Edwin W wrote:
>
> Zed,
>
> Impressive work, and so fast! I got my lil' Clem (46?) today and put a few 
> hours into it. I'll get some pictures by the weekend. I messed up on a few 
> things! Two steps forward, one back, and so forth. 
> One thing I noticed is that some of the eyelets are m5, I think (standard) 
> and some are bigger. Beefier?
> I did a lot of fussing with rack and fender placement and attachment. The 
> hoods on the rear drop out are too close to the eyelets to fit the face of 
> my pletscher rack, so I filed the plates down a bit. 
> I have 55 fenders and 1.75 paselas and lots of room left over. 
> I'll have to figure out a good way to take pictures and post them. The bar 
> I had is bigger than I thought so I may have to rethink that. 
> Oh, and my dirt drop stem would not go that deep into the head tube. Does 
> it taper? I have an albatross set up I might use instead. 
> When I ordered brakes, I only ordered half a bikes worth. No wonder they 
> were so cheap!
> Learning, learning,
>
> Edwin
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS, a few Rivvy items: Grip Kings, Dirt Drop, Soma Portola, Non-aero levers

[Zed Martinez]

I'm interested in the dirt drop stem, I'll shoot you a PM.

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 9:56:05 AM UTC-5, Sofia Torres wrote:
>
> I have a few Rivish things to sell
>
> Two sets of Grip Kings, one silver, one black. The silver set I've ridden 
> for a while, so they are in nice used shape. The black ones I bought and 
> never installed, they look pretty much new. I have the thread-in spikes 
> that will fit either pedal. Let's say $40 shipped for the black pedals, $35 
> shipped for the silver. Add $5 if you want the spikes (only one baggie of 
> them available).
>
> A 8cm Nitto Dirt Drop in good used shape, still pretty but some scuffing 
> below and around the minimum insert line. $45 shipped
>
> Barely used (but a little tape residue) Soma Portola bars. 53cm version. 
> Didn't work for me, too wide. $50 shipped
>
> ENE Gran Compe non-aero levers with brown hoods, good used shape. $25 
> shipped
>
> I have pics of everything on my flickr but email if you need more, or if 
> you see something else you like on here, most of it is still available:   
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/76468912@N07/albums/72157660686937205
>

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[RBW] Re: Ways to make your Rivendell cheap

[Zed Martinez]

My Riv? Heck, my car was cheaper than that, new.

On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 6:17:34 PM UTC-5, Edwin W wrote:
>
> Or seem cheap... 
> Compare it to the Merckx 70 
> 
> !
>
>
> It's all relative,
>
> Edwin
>

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[RBW] Re: Build help needed

[Zed Martinez]

You'd probably need to start with just measuring how many mm you need to 
clear that stay, then multiply by 2 and add that to 110 (which is what they 
ship with). In standard BBs, it looks like Riv stocks up to 115 on their 
site, but it looks Shimano makes theirs in up to 127mm?

On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 1:58:10 AM UTC-5, Edwin W wrote:
>
> Soo... continuing in my Clem build project, as I was installing my 
> vintage sugino gp crank set with 165mm arms, I hit the chain stay with the 
> chain ring. I was upset at scratching the chain stay, but I'm set on having 
> this bike for the long haul, so it will get scratched. (But THIS early?). 
> Anyway, do I need a longer spindle or whatever for a bottom bracket? New 
> bottom bracket?
>
> Thanks in advance for the guidance. 
> Still learning,
> Edwin
>

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[RBW] Re: Let's See Some Clem/Clementine Pics

[Zed Martinez]

Hey Mark,

I can't speak to the stock boscos obviously on my build, but I can say 
there often seems to be some confusion about upright posture and "Dutch" 
style. If you look at an omafiets, you'll see the saddle is rather low, and 
the handlebars quite high and very close. They have rather short top tubes. 
The closest American thing are usually whatever the cheap comfort hybrids 
Trek are offering are. You ride them kind of like a box, I know guys who 
like motorcyles that way. There's no lean because the handlebars are 
already /right there/. It's been my experience with the Clem frame and my 
other long top tube (a 3 speed Simcoe roadster) that the long top tube 
actually is there to keep upright bikes from having that "Dutch" feeling. 
They let you get up and get the weight off your hands while still letting 
you get in just a bit of lean. I like it, a lot. It was actually remarking 
that my Simcoe was the most comfortable bike I'd been on once I raised the 
bars that sold me on the Clem frame when it went up. Long top tube plus 
tall bars is a really nice formula for sitting "upright" without losing 
some of that "active" feeling that a lot of upright bikes do have but not a 
lot of people seem to assume they will. 

Now, the boscos sweep back, so, I imagine the primary grip is rather 
upright, but you have several good ones forwards of that, unlike a 
traditional north roads, say, to alleviate that. With an albastache now on 
a dirt drop stem about 2" from maxed out I'm getting a comfy upright 
position with a little lean back in the wings. If I dropped them a couple 
of inches my posture would be almost the same as it was on my Rivenfried 
80's Fuji, except rotated so less weight was on my hands.

On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 11:56:33 AM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> Hi Tim. Did you try the stock saddle? Any thoughts if so?
>
> I'm curious as to how upright this is going to be. I thought I was kinda 
> upright on my Le Tour mixte with albas, and a while back I commuted on a 
> Schwinn Suburban for a year. Ditto with a classic Raleigh three speed. But 
> these were all relative to a drop bar an inch or more below saddle height. 
> Are the Clems are in another league? I guess the Dutch style, which I have 
> never really ridden? 
>
> On Monday, November 9, 2015 at 10:05:27 PM UTC-5, Tim Wood wrote:
>>
>> On Monday, November 9, 2015 at 2:48:32 PM UTC-8, Jonathan in Ri wrote:
>> > Thanks for posting pics of the grey. I ordered a complete Clem Smith in 
>> the same color. Trying not to get too anxious.
>>
>> Well, the day finally came and I couldn't be happier. The fit, the 
>> colour, the ride!  They nailed this bike. It rolls over everything, climbs 
>> surprisingly well, and is silent as can be. Still getting use to the 
>> shifters but that'll come. Put a nice Z-shaped scratch down the length of 
>> my seat post while setting it up - doh!  
>>
>> A couple pictures, taken in the evening, sorry for the quality. For any 
>> fit reference, my saddle height in these pics is 79cm. My pbh is 90.  I had 
>> been worried about standover but it isn't an issue. I measure it at 34.25" 
>> with the stock 29x2.0 tires inflated to 40psi. The brochure said 34.75", 
>> maybe that is with the max 60c tires?  Either way, I'm able to straddle the 
>> bike comfortably at lights. Also the long top tube is not an issue, 
>> especially with the boscos. I'm not use to being so upright, and would even 
>> consider switching to an albatross or a moustache down the road. 
>>
>> K, gotta go, off for a night ride!
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Let's See Some Clem/Clementine Pics

[Zed Martinez]

Looking good, Edwin!. I like how even in different builds these Clems tend 
to just have a good solid "bikeyness" to them. They're never really any 
particular type of bike, just, yanno, a bike.

As an update on mine with the albastache, I was finally able to get back on 
it this morning after a few days off from a leg injury. In the meanwhile, I 
switched to an 80mm dirt drop stem I got off another group member, and it 
works exactly as advertised when paired with the albstache. Tall and close. 
I probably could have lived with the 80mm Technomic, it was comfy and fine, 
but it was biased a bit more towards the sporty end, and felt just a bit 
short of comfy upright back in the wings. Not a problem now. In the wings 
it has a very north roads upright feel, I have a back angle maybe somewhere 
in the 70 degree range. Pleasant for slowing down and taking things in. But 
unlike the north roads I have the spots through the hooks, and then on the 
brake bodies was great this morning ducking out of an annoying cold 
headwind. Not as fast as when my bars were much lower, but enough to 
nullify the wind, and having the comfy upright at the ends now is a good 
compromise.

Here's a shot of the final setup regarding that:




The bars sure look way the heck up there in that shot, but they don't ride 
like it at all. In the hooks I really feel more like I'm on a sportier flat 
bar bike. Brilliantly weird geometry, these Clems.


The one other thing I have to do (and warn about, I suppose) is switch out 
my front canti for a low profile I have arriving this evening. On the 52cm 
frame, the wide frog-leg cantis do clear the Surly rack just fine, but 
they're right smack dab in the way of hanging my panniers in either the low 
or high spots. D'oh! Throwing a cheap Oryx on there for now while the bike 
is just pulling the usual light duty. I'll see about saving up for a Paul 
maybe down the road, or if I'm feeling like spending way too much just for 
aesthetics maybe I'll buy the matching Grand Cru Zeste low profiles and 
just deal with having two sets of high/low profile cantis. Seriously, why 
doesn't VO sell those by the wheel, anyway?


On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 9:45:22 AM UTC-5, Edwin W wrote:
>
> Here  
> is a Flikr album of the few photos I have taken.
>
> Edwin
>

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[RBW] Re: Let's See Some Clem/Clementine Pics

[Zed Martinez]

Mark, it's just a Cygolite OSP with external pack, a discontinued model 
(picked it up on clearance at some point for peanuts) but I think the 
Mitycross line is the same stuff. It's just a handlebar mount, but even 
with the provided padding I couldn't quite get it tight enough so I just 
used some electrical tape to help me wrap another thin piece of rubber 
padding from some other light mount around to make the tubing a fatter 
diameter there. After a couple of rounds of trial and error I got just the 
right fatness for the clamp to catch properly. It's more secure than it 
looks like it oughtta be, Then I just strap the pack to the front of the 
rack on the underside. Like this:

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lveOFQAXvBc/VkQJhEVW1wI/FgI/7mD9ihRTwMw/s1600/WP_2015_22_34_28_Pro.jpg>


On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 10:09:33 PM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> Zed, what is the light you are using here? How is it clamping to rack 
> diameter tubing? Thanks!
>
> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 11:00:28 AM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Here's a shot of the final setup regarding that:
>>
>>
>> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Xdx8Xkj8ONc/VkNlLAXZjyI/Ff4/n4ahRdv3RCQ/s1600/12240812_10153720383624106_1846002533406206256_o.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell models and year they were introduced?

[Zed Martinez]

Anyone interested in maybe making it like an online spreadsheet or 
something? I have the reader archive I'd be willing to flip through this 
weekend and help fill in some of the dates. I know the Riv 
road/mountain/all-rounder were in the line-up from the very beginning in 
'94, at least. They were listed in Reader 0 even.

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 6:11:37 PM UTC-5, Liesl wrote:
>
> I'd love a thread that could end up with a list of models and the year 
> they were introduced (and last year produced if no longer).  Don't feel 
> like we've done that before.  (If so, just point me to the thread...)
>
> Here's fodder...
>
> Riv Road
> Riv All Arounder (?)
> Heron
> Atlantis
> Romulus
> Quickbeam
> Ramboulliet
> Saluki
> Wilbury/Glorious
> Homer 
> bleriot
> Sam
> bombadil
> Hunq
> Rodeo
> Simpleone
> Betty/Yves
> mystery bike
> cheviot
> clem/clementine
> joe appaloosa
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Let's See Some Clem/Clementine Pics

[Zed Martinez]

I suppose we could always chop off the plastic receiving clip from the 
bracket and epoxy it onto a small hose clamp. Wouldn't be pretty, but man 
that'd be a good fit for a rack mount ;)

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 11:51:07 PM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> Thanks Zed. I do the electric thing with my cygo too. Even with the double 
> bit of rubber it is too loose on most every bar. I don't get why they make 
> it like that. But getting down to rack diameters...wish these light 
> companies would make a better range of interchangeable mounts.
>
> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 10:37:49 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>
>> Mark, it's just a Cygolite OSP with external pack, a discontinued model 
>> (picked it up on clearance at some point for peanuts) but I think the 
>> Mitycross line is the same stuff. It's just a handlebar mount, but even 
>> with the provided padding I couldn't quite get it tight enough so I just 
>> used some electrical tape to help me wrap another thin piece of rubber 
>> padding from some other light mount around to make the tubing a fatter 
>> diameter there. After a couple of rounds of trial and error I got just the 
>> right fatness for the clamp to catch properly. It's more secure than it 
>> looks like it oughtta be, Then I just strap the pack to the front of the 
>> rack on the underside. Like this:
>>
>>
>> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lveOFQAXvBc/VkQJhEVW1wI/FgI/7mD9ihRTwMw/s1600/WP_2015_22_34_28_Pro.jpg>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 10:09:33 PM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Zed, what is the light you are using here? How is it clamping to rack 
>>> diameter tubing? Thanks!
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 11:00:28 AM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here's a shot of the final setup regarding that:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Xdx8Xkj8ONc/VkNlLAXZjyI/Ff4/n4ahRdv3RCQ/s1600/12240812_10153720383624106_1846002533406206256_o.jpg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell models and year they were introduced?

[Zed Martinez]

Here's a bunch (though still incomplete) of dates and issues for bikes from 
the Reader archive. I think I missed the Yves somewhere, and somewhere 
there's the San Marcos stuff.I'll re-skim for those later if someone else 
can't remember.

1994 (Reader 0)
-
Road (announced)
Mtb (announced)
All-Rounder (announced)

1995 (Reader 1-5)
-
Road (specs RR2)
Mtb (specs RR2)
All-Rounder (specs RR2)

1996 (Reader 6-8)
---
LongLow (announced RR8)
Cyclocross (announced RR8)

1997 (Reader 9-10)
---

1998 (Reader 11-14)


Heron Road (Announced RR11)
Heron Touring (Announced RR11)
Road Standard/LongLow made in California, Joe (RR11)

1999 (Reader 15-18)
--
All-Rounder, Match (RR14,15)
Atlantis (announced, RR18)

2000 (Reader 19-21)
--

Atlantis (arriving, RR19)

2001 (Reader 22-24)
--

Rambouillet (announced, RR23)
... (2002 expected, RR24)

2002 (Reader 25-28)
-
Romulus (announced, RR28)
Redwood (announced, RR28)

2003 (Reader 29-30)
--

2004 (Reader 31-34)

Quickbeam (announced, RR31)
Saluki (in development, RR32)
Glorius (in development, RR32)
Wilbury (in development, RR32)
Wilbury (RR34)
Glorius (RR34)

2005 (Reader 35-36)
---

2006 (Reader 37-38)
--
Bleriot (announced, RR37)
A. Homer Hilsen (announced, RR38)

2007 (Reader 39)
--

Legolas (shown, never announced? RR39)

2008 (Reader 40)


2009 (Reader 41-)
-
Bombadil (announced, RR41)
Sam Hillborn (announced, RR41)



On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 6:11:37 PM UTC-5, Liesl wrote:
>
> I'd love a thread that could end up with a list of models and the year 
> they were introduced (and last year produced if no longer).  Don't feel 
> like we've done that before.  (If so, just point me to the thread...)
>
> Here's fodder...
>
> Riv Road
> Riv All Arounder (?)
> Heron
> Atlantis
> Romulus
> Quickbeam
> Ramboulliet
> Saluki
> Wilbury/Glorious
> Homer 
> bleriot
> Sam
> bombadil
> Hunq
> Rodeo
> Simpleone
> Betty/Yves
> mystery bike
> cheviot
> clem/clementine
> joe appaloosa
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell models and year they were introduced?

[Zed Martinez]

OK, found a few more things I was missing from the really old archives. A 
lot of things after this list are somewhere in the Tumblr/Blug archive I 
know, I just read it this summer waiting on my Clem, but it's a PITA to 
search through trying to find specific things.

1994 (Reader 0)
-
Road (announced)
Mtb (announced)
All-Rounder (announced)

1995 (Reader 1-5)
-
Road (specs RR2)
Mtb (specs RR2)
All-Rounder (specs RR2)

1996 (Reader 6-8)
---
LongLow (announced RR8)
Cyclocross (announced RR8)

1997 (Reader 9-10)
---

1998 (Reader 11-14)


Heron Road (Announced RR11)
Heron Touring (Announced RR11)
Road Standard/LongLow made in California, Joe (RR11)

1999 (Reader 15-18)
--
All-Rounder, Match (RR14,15)
Atlantis (announced, RR18)

2000 (Reader 19-21)
--

Atlantis (arriving, RR19)

2001 (Reader 22-24)
--

Rambouillet (announced, RR23)
... (2002 expected, RR24)

2002 (Reader 25-28)
-
Romulus (announced, RR28)
Redwood (announced, RR28)

2003 (Reader 29-30)
--

2004 (Reader 31-34)

Quickbeam (announced, RR31)
Saluki (in development, RR32)
Glorius (in development, RR32)
Wilbury (in development, RR32)
Buffalo prototype (RR33)
Saluki (shown, RR33)
Wilbury (RR34)
Glorius (RR34)

2005 (Reader 35-36)
---

2006 (Reader 37-38)
--
Bleriot (announced, RR37)
A. Homer Hilsen (announced, RR38)

2007 (Reader 39)
--

Legolas (shown, never announced? RR39)
Bombadil (prototype, RR39)

2008 (Reader 40)


Betty Foy (in development, Peeking Through The Knothole July 27, 2008)
Betty Foy (prototype, PTTK Nov 29, 2008)

2009 (Reader 41)
-
Bombadil (announced, RR41)
Sam Hillborn (announced, RR41)

2010 (Reader 42)

Roadeo (announced, RR42)
Betty Foy (existed, RR42)
SimpleOne announced (Peeking Through The Knothole, Nov 19 & Dec 29, 2010)
San Marcos (announced, Riv news archive Jan 11, 2010)
... (prototypes, PTTK Oct 2, 2010)
Hunqapillar (announced, Riv news archive Jan 11,2010)

2012
-

Yves Gomez (existed, Harris Cyclery blog Dec 5, 2012)



On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 6:11:37 PM UTC-5, Liesl wrote:
>
> I'd love a thread that could end up with a list of models and the year 
> they were introduced (and last year produced if no longer).  Don't feel 
> like we've done that before.  (If so, just point me to the thread...)
>
> Here's fodder...
>
> Riv Road
> Riv All Arounder (?)
> Heron
> Atlantis
> Romulus
> Quickbeam
> Ramboulliet
> Saluki
> Wilbury/Glorious
> Homer 
> bleriot
> Sam
> bombadil
> Hunq
> Rodeo
> Simpleone
> Betty/Yves
> mystery bike
> cheviot
> clem/clementine
> joe appaloosa
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell models and year they were introduced?

[Zed Martinez]

I don't recall that. I just read through all of them this summer, and I 
don't remember anything about it before the introduction in Reader 37 
(2006), when Grant said earlier that year or late in 2005 he approached QBP 
about doing a Taiwan direct-to-dealers 650b bike based off the Saluki...

On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 9:19:30 PM UTC-5, Christopher Murray wrote:
>
> The Bleriot was initially conceived as a travel bike. I assume this 
> explains the airplane theme and name. This is way back in about 2001-2002 I 
> am guessing. It was one or two lines in the reader.
>
> Chris
>

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[RBW] The Albastache'd Clem, 150 Mile Update

[Zed Martinez]

Well, 142. It'll be 150 by the day's end. Thought I'd shoot a quick update 
out into to ether here for anyone that was curious how it was working out 
with my odd touring/commute-y albastache Clem build. It's been a pretty 
rough couple weeks to dial in a new bike, with a mild leg injury that's 
just recently let me get back to full stride and quite a lot of wind when I 
did ride. But, I've had a chance now to get the fit dialed in where I like 
it and a few longer rides (20 mile fun jaunts) and a few days doing my 
usual commute. I've been down various road surfaces, some gravel jogging 
trails, a little detour through some dirt wooded paths (more pedestrian, 
less singletrack), and some other mixed stuff. I've had sun, head wind, 
tail wind, rain, and even now as of this morning a flat. So, it's still way 
too early to really know the nature of the thing, but finally been through 
enough to have some early thoughts.

Mostly, I have to say, if anything the frame just feels neutral to me. 
Haven't ridden a huge amount of bikes, but a mixed handful, and it's my 
first Riv so there's that. But aside from the peculiar geometry behind the 
long top tube and high bars, most of what I'm feeling as impressions have 
to do with the components the frame let me use more than anything intrinsic 
in it. But, I suppose that's true of most frames. The big thing about the 
Clem geometry for me is still the long sloped top tube. Combined with the 
albastache I have a really novel riding posture that's just like using the 
albastaches on a lower, longer stem was on an 80's road bike, except higher 
so now all the pressure on my hands when riding upright is gone. Still 
really weird to wrap my head around how similar it feels to the previous 
build, just without the hand pressure.

Previous build the Clem replaced:


And the Clem finally dialed in:




Essentially the same reach, just now as much higher than the saddle as it 
previously was lower. Neat geometry, really. Certainly not just locked into 
the "cruiser"s I suspect so many would view it as (especially reading the 
chatter on the other thread about how any bike with upright bars is 
basically a cruiser anyway). The other thing about the geometry that 
matters is the long chain stays, but they do about what you'd expect. Less 
bumps get transmitted to the saddle (although, since the C17 acts a bit 
like a trampoline anyway, what this really means is I bounce out of it less 
more so than really feel the lack of bumps). And with that, hairpin turns 
feel slightly more sled-like, though the bike is also less prone to the 
rear wheel sliding out so it's really a pretty minor change in my 
day-to-day.


The biggest thing about the ride is coming from those Compass Switchback 
Hill tires. Man. So, they don't exactly put up a lot of fight against 
shards of broken beer bottles apparently, but they roll, comply, and corner 
wonderfully. The Clem has a lovely floating feeling I know is down to them 
more than anything, but when combined with the low gearing of the X2 double 
crankset there's no problem getting the bike rolling either. I passed a 
coworker on the way home one evening the first week I had it and he seemed 
surprised I only had 16 gears, and then asked if I had a motor hidden in it 
instead. I'm not setting any land speed records on the top end, but it's 
zippy enough in commuting use and matching the speeds I got off the smaller 
Fuji frame pretty evenly. And I really just don't feel the road anymore, 
except on the cobble streets. Those are still bumpy, but not in a painful 
way. Just require me to be a bit more active in the saddle. The cornering 
on the Compass tires feels great, not sure if it's the tread choice, just 
the size, or both. The last build had 38mm Soma New Xpress tires and they 
were bulletproof and fast, but they always felt iffy on hard turns unless 
the road was dry and clear. I didn't push it much on the creek-side path 
pictured there with the frequent sticks and leaves, for fear of it sliding 
out. The Compass tires are much more confidence inspiring through those 
same turns, even though they're leafier now.


Between the tires and the long stance, it's been a pleasure on the gravel 
paths out by the river. Even the 38mms always felt like they were drifting 
a little through the gravel, but the Clem just glides ride over them. On 
the finer, more packed gravel I couldn't even tell I wasn't on a road. Same 
with the dirt paths I tried. The mainstream market can call a modified CX 
bike a gravel bike all they want, for me the wide upright bars and fat 
tires are the best combo I could ask for if the pavement intended to stop.


There aren't many hills out here in Indianapolis, and I haven't had an 
excu

Re: [RBW] The Albastache'd Clem, 150 Mile Update

[Zed Martinez]

Yeah, it flatted on me this morning about a minute after the picture in the 
first post was taken. Probably picked it up on the path and had it in that 
picture, honestly. It of course complied with the first rule of bike 
commuting that says you'll get flats only when it's raining. But, I was 
able to patch it quickly without popping the wheel off, and took it off 
proper here at the office and put a boot in where the glass had left a 
small cut. Annoying, but didn't wreck the tire. Last time I had a tire 
suffer from glass it left like a 1" slash and I just had to write that one 
off, since it was a skinnier and higher pressure one. But, I also don't 
think the New Xpress would have survived a piece of glass like that either, 
so, it's not like I can blame the supple casing. Just annoying. The fatter 
tires are excellent though, I do have to agree. And I thought the 38s were 
fatties before.

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 1:53:39 PM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> Did you actually have a flat from broken glass?  (sorry if you posted this 
> earlier and I missed it)
> My Pari-Motos have been totally flat free in >1000 miles, and not from a 
> lack of broken glass on the streets.
>
> I've had similar "floaty, but secure, and fast!" experiences with other 
> fat, smooth, supple tires.  The Pari-Motos feel that way on any pavement 
> and hard pack dirt and gravel, but the 60 mm Super Motos feel that way on 
> loose gravel and dirt, too.
>
> Congrats on the sweet ride!
> Tim
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 12:19 PM, Zed Martinez  > wrote:
>>
>> The biggest thing about the ride is coming from those Compass Switchback 
>> Hill tires. Man. So, they don't exactly put up a lot of fight against 
>> shards of broken beer bottles apparently, but they roll, comply, and corner 
>> wonderfully. The Clem has a lovely floating feeling I know is down to them 
>> more than anything The cornering on the Compass tires feels great, not 
>> sure if it's the tread choice, just the size, or bothThe Compass tires 
>> are much more confidence inspiring through those same turns, even though 
>> they're leafier now.
>>
>> ... the Clem just glides ride over them. On the finer, more packed gravel 
>> I couldn't even tell I wasn't on a road. Same with the dirt paths I tried. 
>> The mainstream market can call a modified CX bike a gravel bike all they 
>> want, for me the wide upright bars and fat tires are the best combo I could 
>> ask for if the pavement intended to stop.
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] The Albastache'd Clem, 150 Mile Update

[Zed Martinez]

Hmm, I do like riding... and love coffee... you'll have to PM me more.

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 7:15:50 PM UTC-5, EGNolan wrote:
>
> You're in Indy Zed? We gotta get you to one of our coffee rides!
>
> Best,
> Eric
>

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[RBW] Re: Let's See Some Clem/Clementine Pics

[Zed Martinez]

Woo! Another sportier build. How's it ride with the mountain-y bars on that 
long TT?

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 9:42:08 PM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>
>
> 
> I was looking forward to naming this Mt Clem or something with the 
> choose-your-own-Clem-name decals but the new blue paint really makes up for 
> it. Built it all up last night and lost steam once I got to trimming the 
> rear fender stays. Rides like a dream
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 12:30:06 PM UTC-5, RDS wrote:
>>
>> I was just curious to see how all of the colors turned out for each 
>> model.  Please, let's see some pics whether bike or frame.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Blue Clementine

[Zed Martinez]

Wayne, speaking as a photographer I can tell ya someone has jacked with the 
saturation on that Instagram shot, is why they all look that way ;) 
Although mucked like that the gray looks very much like the gunmetal-y blue 
my old Fuji had, and that would have made me really happy as a color 
choice. Alas, and alack.


On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:24:22 PM UTC-5, Wayne Naha wrote:
>
> Well, it looks like they played fast and loose with the color code.  Check 
> out this link:  
> https://www.instagram.com/p/-HwMSWmT-Q/?taken-by=rivelo_pdx 
> 
>  for 
> what appears to be some turquoise Clems at Rivelo.  I might have ordered a 
> black Clem if I had known that we could mix and match ;)
>
> On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:04:36 PM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>>
>> Wow. Maybe it will be like one of those upside down backwards stamps and 
>> be worth a fortune! But seriously, I hope my black Clementine is not a 
>> turquoise-y black.
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Smith fenders?

[Zed Martinez]

I'm with Edwin. I have P55s on mine with 48mm tires (not quite 2"). They 
fit easily and look great, but I too could've fit the P65's and I'm getting 
some splash out the side in stouter puddles since the tire fills so much of 
the fender. If I was doing it again, I'd get the 65s. Just be sure and read 
Riv's note about the one fender not being defective because it's got a 
space cut out of it, that's just part of the fender at that size to fit the 
frame.

Rather than rubber plugs at the kickstand plate I just used a longer bolt 
with a few nuts on it to split the spacing difference between getting the 
wheel out and maintaining my fender line. On the 52cm I had to bend the 
mounting tab on the rear fender's positionable bracket to match the angle 
of the seat stay bridge's boss. Didn't really have another troubles getting 
them in there, massive fender clearance is one of the Clem's strengths 
after all ;)

On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 2:20:30 PM UTC-5, Edwin W wrote:
>
> If you are thinking of getting the SKS fenders that Riv sells: On the little 
> Clem 
> 
>  
> I built up, I put p55s on there with Panaracer Pasela 26x1.75. I know it 
> will fit p65s, so I think I would suggest those, unless you are planning on 
> running relatively small tires, like mine, or smaller
>
> As far as the mounting, I have a spacer (just a rubber plug I drilled a 
> hole in) in between the fender and the kickstand plate and another one in 
> between the fender and the seat stay bridge.
>
> Edwin
>
> On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 12:10:36 PM UTC-6, Jonathan in Ri wrote:
>>
>> I have a Clem arriving tomorrow.  Can anyone recommend which model fender 
>> will work the best? Will the longer chain stays affect mounting? 
>>
>> Thanks
>
>

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[RBW] Re: So darn close...

[Zed Martinez]

Got any calipers around to measure how big those Knards are with the 
knobbies? Be interested to know if they'd fit under my P55s on my Clem as 
wintery tires.

On Monday, November 23, 2015 at 3:48:33 PM UTC-5, Zach Duval wrote:
>
> After spending my morning trying to fit a pair of Surly Knards (650BX41, 
> low-profile knobbies) under VO Zeppelin fenders on my Sam, unsuccessfully, 
> I'm a bit flummoxed. I was really looking forward to this as a winter 
> set-up for lighter commute rides.
>
> Anyone think this combo could work with Paul Racers?
>
> On a side note: Why did Riv ever stop issuing canti-Sams?! 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

Oh I do love me some Eben Weiss. I wonder if I could fit that onto a decal 
to put on my Clem, like those bike shop decals so many rides through the 
80's seemed to roll out with.

On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 11:14:13 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> *2) Rivendell's retail store is called:*
> --Bike, Book and Hatchet 
> --The Luggery 
> --Ol' Man Petersen's House of Ferrous Velocipedes and Canvas Curios 
> 
> --The Lug N' Tug 
>
> I rather like #3.
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>
> *
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities 
> revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

Here we go...
http://zedmartinez.com/samples/old-man-petersen.png

On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 12:02:33 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>
> Oh I do love me some Eben Weiss. I wonder if I could fit that onto a decal 
> to put on my Clem, like those bike shop decals so many rides through the 
> 80's seemed to roll out with.
>
> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 11:14:13 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> *2) Rivendell's retail store is called:*
>> --Bike, Book and Hatchet <http://www.rivbike.com/>
>> --The Luggery <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>> --Ol' Man Petersen's House of Ferrous Velocipedes and Canvas Curios 
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>> --The Lug N' Tug <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>>
>> I rather like #3.
>>
>> -- 
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>
>> *
>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
>> circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities 
>> revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>>
>> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

Hmmm, looks like I can get them as a custom "bumper sticker" that'll fit 5 
of them at 3" tall x 2" wide... I think that'd work as a tubing decal. Any 
thoughts on that as a size? if anyone else wants some, I'll see about 
getting a short batch maybe early next month.

On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 1:33:26 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> That's great. Sign me up for a couple if they are tubing or bumper sticker 
> compatible.
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Zed Martinez  > wrote:
>
>> Here we go...
>> http://zedmartinez.com/samples/old-man-petersen.png
>>
>>
>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 12:02:33 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>>
>>> Oh I do love me some Eben Weiss. I wonder if I could fit that onto a 
>>> decal to put on my Clem, like those bike shop decals so many rides through 
>>> the 80's seemed to roll out with.
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 11:14:13 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>>
>>>> *2) Rivendell's retail store is called:*
>>>> --Bike, Book and Hatchet <http://www.rivbike.com/>
>>>> --The Luggery <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>>>> --Ol' Man Petersen's House of Ferrous Velocipedes and Canvas Curios 
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>>>> --The Lug N' Tug <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>>>>
>>>> I rather like #3.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>>>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>>>> Other professional writing services.
>>>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>>>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>>>> Patrick Moore
>>>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
>>>> circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities 
>>>> revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>>>>
>>>> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>
> *
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities 
> revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

I'd gladly send him one if I knew how to. He seemed amused enough by it on 
Twitter to retweet it. But, it's also not like I'd charge y'all for it or 
anything, and don't really have the energy to make it outside the bunch, 
so, I'll happily cut him in on a really excellent share of the nothing I'll 
be making on this ;) We'll call it "personal use."

On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 2:20:05 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Might BSNYC insist on his copyright?
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Patrick Moore  > wrote:
>
>> Sounds good to me. At least 2 for this customer.
>>
>> I'm tempted to suggest the slogan, *Annoying the cycling avant guard 
>> since 1994,* but I won't.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:15 PM, Zed Martinez > > wrote:
>>
>>> Hmmm, looks like I can get them as a custom "bumper sticker" that'll fit 
>>> 5 of them at 3" tall x 2" wide... I think that'd work as a tubing decal. 
>>> Any thoughts on that as a size? if anyone else wants some, I'll see about 
>>> getting a short batch maybe early next month.
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 1:33:26 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That's great. Sign me up for a couple if they are tubing or bumper 
>>>> sticker compatible.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Zed Martinez  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here we go...
>>>>> http://zedmartinez.com/samples/old-man-petersen.png
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 12:02:33 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh I do love me some Eben Weiss. I wonder if I could fit that onto a 
>>>>>> decal to put on my Clem, like those bike shop decals so many rides 
>>>>>> through 
>>>>>> the 80's seemed to roll out with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 11:14:13 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *2) Rivendell's retail store is called:*
>>>>>>> --Bike, Book and Hatchet <http://www.rivbike.com/>
>>>>>>> --The Luggery <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>>>>>>> --Ol' Man Petersen's House of Ferrous Velocipedes and Canvas Curios 
>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>>>>>>> --The Lug N' Tug <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I rather like #3.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>>>>>>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>>>>>>> Other professional writing services.
>>>>>>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>>>>>>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>>>>>>> Patrick Moore
>>>>>>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center 
>>>>>>> of a circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and 
>>>>>>> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>>>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>>>> Other professional writing services.
>>>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>>&g

Re: [RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

OK, shot an email to the Snob to ask permission and keep everything on the 
up and up. Whether this goes any farther now is dependent on his response. 
Will keep you guys updated.

On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 2:27:55 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>
> I'd gladly send him one if I knew how to. He seemed amused enough by it on 
> Twitter to retweet it. But, it's also not like I'd charge y'all for it or 
> anything, and don't really have the energy to make it outside the bunch, 
> so, I'll happily cut him in on a really excellent share of the nothing I'll 
> be making on this ;) We'll call it "personal use."
>
> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 2:20:05 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Might BSNYC insist on his copyright?
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Patrick Moore  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sounds good to me. At least 2 for this customer.
>>>
>>> I'm tempted to suggest the slogan, *Annoying the cycling avant guard 
>>> since 1994,* but I won't.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:15 PM, Zed Martinez  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hmmm, looks like I can get them as a custom "bumper sticker" that'll 
>>>> fit 5 of them at 3" tall x 2" wide... I think that'd work as a tubing 
>>>> decal. Any thoughts on that as a size? if anyone else wants some, I'll see 
>>>> about getting a short batch maybe early next month.
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 1:33:26 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> That's great. Sign me up for a couple if they are tubing or bumper 
>>>>> sticker compatible.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Zed Martinez  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Here we go...
>>>>>> http://zedmartinez.com/samples/old-man-petersen.png
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 12:02:33 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh I do love me some Eben Weiss. I wonder if I could fit that onto a 
>>>>>>> decal to put on my Clem, like those bike shop decals so many rides 
>>>>>>> through 
>>>>>>> the 80's seemed to roll out with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 11:14:13 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *2) Rivendell's retail store is called:*
>>>>>>>> --Bike, Book and Hatchet <http://www.rivbike.com/>
>>>>>>>> --The Luggery <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>>>>>>>> --Ol' Man Petersen's House of Ferrous Velocipedes and Canvas Curios 
>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>>>>>>>> --The Lug N' Tug <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I rather like #3.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>>>>>>>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>>>>>>>> Other professional writing services.
>>>>>>>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>>>>>>>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>>>>>>>> Patrick Moore
>>>>>>>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center 
>>>>>>>> of a circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and 
>>>>>>>> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>>>>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> To post to this gr

Re: [RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

OK, got the Snob's blessings oddly fast... he wants one for him and one for 
Grant too. Now the pressure's really on. Guess I need to look into my 
options to make sure they come back in at least not horrid quality now... ;)

On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 2:43:08 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Vouz etes correct, monsieur, with the little tent over the first "e."
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Allingham II, Thomas J <
> thomas.a...@skadden.com > wrote:
>
>> Me, too.
>>
>>  
>>
>> And Patrick M, wouldn't it be "avant garde" (he inquired, pedantically)?
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *Patrick Moore
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2015 2:35 PM
>> *To:* rbw-owners-bunch
>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: Nomenclature
>>
>>  
>>
>> Happy to pay for mine!
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Zed Martinez > > wrote:
>>
>> I'd gladly send him one if I knew how to. He seemed amused enough by it 
>> on Twitter to retweet it. But, it's also not like I'd charge y'all for it 
>> or anything, and don't really have the energy to make it outside the bunch, 
>> so, I'll happily cut him in on a really excellent share of the nothing I'll 
>> be making on this ;) We'll call it "personal use."
>>
>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 2:20:05 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Might BSNYC insist on his copyright?
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Patrick Moore  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Sounds good to me. At least 2 for this customer.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I'm tempted to suggest the slogan, *Annoying the cycling avant guard 
>> since 1994,* but I won't.
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:15 PM, Zed Martinez  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hmmm, looks like I can get them as a custom "bumper sticker" that'll fit 
>> 5 of them at 3" tall x 2" wide... I think that'd work as a tubing decal. 
>> Any thoughts on that as a size? if anyone else wants some, I'll see about 
>> getting a short batch maybe early next month.
>>
>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 1:33:26 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> That's great. Sign me up for a couple if they are tubing or bumper 
>> sticker compatible.
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Zed Martinez  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Here we go...
>>
>> http://zedmartinez.com/samples/old-man-petersen.png
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 12:02:33 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>
>> Oh I do love me some Eben Weiss. I wonder if I could fit that onto a 
>> decal to put on my Clem, like those bike shop decals so many rides through 
>> the 80's seemed to roll out with.
>>
>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 11:14:13 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> *2) Rivendell's retail store is called:*
>> --Bike, Book and Hatchet <http://www.rivbike.com/>
>> --The Luggery <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>> --Ol' Man Petersen's House of Ferrous Velocipedes and Canvas Curios 
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>> --The Lug N' Tug <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>>
>>  
>>
>> I rather like #3.
>>
>>  
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>>
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>>
>> Other professional writing services.
>>
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>>
>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>>
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>
>>  
>>
>> *
>>
>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
>> circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities 
>> revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>>
>> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>>
>>  
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegr

[RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

Yeah, I'm waiting to see how much it costs for good ones. Unless anyone 
knows a shop that does good 4-color vinyl decals with UV resistance and 
waterproofing, I'm going to try a sample first from Cafe Press, who do a 
bumper sticker that'll fit two each for $3-4 plus shipping. They'll require 
a little skill with an xacto knife to prepare for placement, unless enough 
people prefer I just make a rectangular alternative. Once I know how much 
printing at a reliable place will be, considering the demand we can work on 
arranging a pool maybe and splitting them out, or I can always make the 
print file available and people can order their own a la carte. Just no 
selling them off to other people, I did tell Eben this was just for funsies 
;)

On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 6:09:53 PM UTC-5, dougP wrote:
>
> Zed:
>
> I'll take 2 for our Atlantis', and our SoCal Riv group could use a bunch.  
> Jim alone needs a handful for each of his Rivendells.  David, Hugh, Curtis, 
> et al, lets coordinate this to minimize mailing.  Zed, if this gets crazy 
> at least cover your costs.  
>
> dougP
>
> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 2:00:38 PM UTC-8, Wayne Naha wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, I'd deck the Clem out with one!
>>
>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 4:10:14 PM UTC-5, Liesl wrote:
>>>
>>> oh my goodness, I'd take half a dozen 2 for myself, 2 for erin, 1 to 
>>> give away, and one to keep so I don't fret that I put them on the wrong 
>>> thing!
>>>
>>> really outstanding!
>>>
>>> -rcw (who would go amazon berzerker if it were a patch)
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem for my husband

[Zed Martinez]

Leah, if it's the stock seat post from the Clem (the Kalloy), adjusting the 
saddle tilt just requires loosening the bolt a bit more than you'd expect 
to. It'll loosen for sliding on the rails before it'll loosen enough to let 
the angle adjustments click over each other. The trick is not losing the 
fore/aft adjustment as you do so. Some tape to mark the rails and stop them 
at the clamp helps.

The handlebars, yeah, I think it can matter a lot. A difference of 1/4" in 
any direction is something I can feel, and once you start talking even just 
a whole inch the entire feeling can be different. It looks like the Clem's 
bars are way up there, in the pictures, which will shorten the reach fast 
on that bike. I ride an albastache on mine that doesn't sweep back even 
half as much and I still need mine several inches lower than that not to 
feel cramped. Lowering the bars until the feeling opens up would be the 
first thing I'd try. You'd be surprised how much it'll affect the fit.

On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 at 2:33:07 PM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> Hi, All, I just wanted to post a quick update on my husband's new Clem. 
> You will remember that he was enamored with Specialized and its garish 
> modern style and garish modern colors. You will be amused to know that he 
> has been studying MY bike and wondering how to make his more like it. You 
> know, so we can "match." Anyway, this is a man who never spends money on 
> himself. Therefore, you might imagine my shock when he wanted new cork 
> grips ("like yours, Leah"), wanted those grips shellacked ("to match our 
> saddles, Leah") and a new Brooks saddle ("They make them with SPRINGS?!?"). 
> I took some extra liberties, however, and not only did he get his new cork 
> grips (which I then shellacked, along with mine to "match") and his Brooks 
> (in honey to "match", mind you), but I got him a silver bell (complements 
> but doesn't "match" my brass bell), a bottle cage, a cygolight which has 
> yet to arrive, and I wrapped an Irish strap around his bars. I don't know 
> why I did that last thing. Now our bars do not "match." He has neither 
> inquired nor complained about the cost of Riv-ing up his Clem, which is 
> quite possibly a first. 
>
> I cringe to say it, but the magic of this bike is, for now, unnoticed by 
> my husband. He has no notion of how special it is, and the attributes of 
> his Clem that he's assigned value to are not typical, or even sensical. 
> When I ask him about his favorite attributes of his bike, he offers this as 
> the pinnacle of the bike's good points: it matches mine. I have to stifle 
> laughter because he's ridiculous. Incorrigible and ridiculous and darling! 
> His favorite, and I do mean all-time, incomparable, cherished, revered, 
> favorite thing, is that it looks like our bikes are a matched pair. How 
> silly it would be for me to be on my Riv and he on a Specialized! What a 
> relief not to have made THAT mistake. Because, priorities! Also, if we can 
> be seen riding our bikes in tandem, all the better, so that the 
> neighborhood knows WE MATCH. Is it foolish to suppose that over time he 
> will realize the true splendor of lugged steel magic bikes created by the 
> elves at Rivendell? For this we hope! 
>
> His ride impressions are that the bike feels sturdy and sounds quiet. He 
> is weirded out by friction shifting. You know how sometimes you'll think 
> you're in gear and then when you apply more pressure to the pedals 
> sometimes the gears will grind or slip? He HATES that.  "It was NOT out of 
> gear! I was going along perfectly fine, didn't touch a thing and then IT 
> DID THIS!" Completely confounded by friction shifting, can't see why this 
> would ever be superior to his old Pile 'O Junk and its twisty numbered grip 
> shifting mechanism. Somehow his chain popped off the rear cog and gouged 
> the paint on his frame. That was a low point for sure. He definitely needs 
> his saddle raised a few inches but staunchly opposes that idea ("I like it 
> like this."). Not easily deterred, I raised it at least a couple of inches 
> when I installed his Brooks. We'll see if he notices. He calls his bike his 
> "gentleman's bike." He says it looks like a British gentleman just waiting 
> to go for a ride. The only British thing on the bike is the saddle, and the 
> rest of it is a conglomeration of parts from all over the world, but it's 
> British if you ask HIM. His next idea is to figure out the bag situation. 
> He doesn't want a Saddlesack because he doesn't want to lose his Pletscher 
> rack. So he thinks about rear Back-a-Bike bags, but he isn't sure yet. 
>
> Now, I have a couple of questions, and they are silly because I don't know 
> anything about bikes, so bear with me. Look at the angle of his Brooks. He 
> hasn't complained (because he's been away on business and hasn't ridden it 
> yet), but it looks like I may want to nose it down a bit, and I better know 
> how to do it before he asks. Mine 

[RBW] Re: do these bars look too high?

[Zed Martinez]

Dirt drops are fun. When I got mine I forgot that a Dirt Drop sunk all the 
way down is still about as tall as a Technomic halfway up and had my bars 
monstrously high on my Clem. Like the others said, so long as the fit is 
right (and you didn't overjudge height playing around like I did :P), then 
they look fine. And the Dirt Drop's a stronger stem to boot.

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 2:30:32 PM UTC-5, Pete Porvaz wrote:
>
> https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5836/23051338044_2cd564a8af_n.jpg 
>
> I'm really liking my newly mounted dirt drop stem. It's not a simple 
> change but for me was so worth it. Next up something to wrap on the tops 
> where I do most of my riding.
> Thought about a different bar but I just like the noodle bar. It does look 
> waay up there!
> Pete
>

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[RBW] Re: New Hunqapillar frame geometry

[Zed Martinez]

Conversely, I rather like the long stays on my Clem (though, can't speak 
for any singletrack stuff there). They don't really slow me down any on the 
hairpin at the bottom of a hill I take every day to get on a trail (though 
I do now need to put a knee out to do it at the same speeds as my 650b 
converted 80's Fuji road could), and on every other turn on the trail my 
handling is now far more confident, especially when it's wet and covered in 
sticks and leaves. The rear wheel always wanted to slide out before, now 
even with the same tires I was using previously the turns are a lot less 
worrisome. Add in the bigger tires rolling over more sticks without 
deflecting, and it's been a lot better experience for me, the 52cm 
chainstays.

On Thursday, December 17, 2015 at 9:30:32 PM UTC-5, masmojo wrote:
>
> I am generally in tune with the changes & long chain stays, but too long 
> is too long. 
> We have two Clementines,  a small & a medium & in my opinion the chain 
> stays on both are too long. The small one is only a little too long (1/4" 
> ?) The medium on the other hand is probably almost an inch too long. 
> While it's true there is little downside to longer chain stays, there are 
> a few. Bottom bracket deflection is one, tubes have to be made thicker to 
> ward off flex of a longer frame otherwise you tend to get ghost shifting 
> when standing on the pedals while climbing or sprinting also it slows 
> handling; I am still adjusting my riding style on the Clementine, because I 
> have been going off the outside of turns when traveling quickly, combined 
> with the upright riding position I find I need to lean the bike more & use 
> a bit of body English to turn confidently.

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[RBW] Re: So how lively is the Clem?

[Zed Martinez]

My Clem is built up with most of the same components I had previously used 
on a 650b converted mid-80s Fuji with Valite tubing. Using the sportier 
albastaches instead of the upright upright-y bars. My thoughts almost 500 
miles in:

The frame is certainly heavier than the previous one. Not by much though, 
despite being considerably larger in all regards. Final bike build is 
within 5-6 pounds of where I was before. Some parts and tires and stuff got 
swapped out, so, it's hard to compare exactly. But, basically, without any 
of my commuting gear in them, but loaded up with racks and bags and lights, 
they're both in the low 40 pound range. Just to add some grounding to any 
thoughts about them in liveliness.

Also, it's been kind of annoying out here in the midwest. Warm for a 
winter, but still cold and with the continuous wall of headwind that 
entails in flat areas. So, I haven't been able to let loose as often as I 
have on the previous build.

OK, I think that's all the disclaimers. So, I would say the Clem never 
seems to /feel/ as lively as the converted road bike did. It always feels a 
bit more stately and go-as-it-will. But, the times and top speeds I've been 
getting are right in line with what I got on the previous one in similarly 
adverse conditions. So. Feels more relaxed. But isn't, actually. Zips along 
just fine, apparently. And with a tail wind, it can boogie on down just 
dandy. One weird thing is, with the much longer top tube and the rear wheel 
no longer right under my butt, I don't find myself needing to go en 
danseuse nearly as often, which might be part of why it feels tamer to me. 
Also, I mentioned in a different thread, getting the rear wheel way out 
behind me has increased my turning confidence a lot on some paved trails I 
frequent that are often wet and covered in leaves and sticks. Previously, 
with more weight on the rear wheel, I had to take those turns slower to 
make sure I didn't slide out sideways. The Clem has me barreling through 
them a lot more often. As far as the acceleration, I can't say I can second 
Tim's sensations. My custom build with the Sugino XD2 double accelerates 
like a gem. Well, it didn't for a while until I realized my saddle bag had 
pulled my saddle back on the rails while I was adjusting the angle and I 
was stretched out too much, but once I got it back in my sweet spot it's 
accelerated rather easily so long as I remember to downshift at stops. I 
had a coworker  I passed on a section of commute ask me if I had a motor 
hidden in it, the way I came off stops. 

So, in all reality, it's been a great ride, but there still is the thing 
where it doesn't /feel/ as lively as it is. Sometimes I'm surprised at the 
times I had vs what they felt like, but, I think most of that is the winter 
wall. I'll know more accurately in the summer once I've had happier 
weather. There was more ice last year, so, the previous build didn't get as 
much saddle time during the winter as the Clem is getting, but what it did 
I remember feeling worse than my happy times with it through the warm 
months, so, I'm betting my feelings of the Clem's liveliness will warm up 
with the weather. And even if they don't, I wouldn't trade it back. It's 
really the best jack-of-all-trades frame I've ever seen for how I ride, and 
it rides like a towncar in addition to the heavy-hauling merits.

On Sunday, December 20, 2015 at 6:16:54 PM UTC-5, Eric Daume wrote:
>
> Now that the Clems have been out in the wild for a while now, how "lively" 
> do people think the frame is? I know Riv built this frame to be on the 
> tough side, but my briefly owned Cheviot felt pretty lively to me, so I'm 
> wondering if the Clem is in that ballpark (though I think the Cheviut 
> benefits from not having a top tube 0/0/0 wall thickness!)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric Daume
> Dublin, OH
>

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[RBW] Re: So how lively is the Clem?

[Zed Martinez]

*shrug* At least for my part, the 'comparison' was less to compare A to B 
than to clarify the biases I had going in. The Clem replaced my previous 
every day ride in my line-up, so, I can only talk about how it feels in a 
reasonable way in relation to the last thing I was riding. My opinions on 
it might've been very different if I'd spent all summer on my aluminum disc 
hybrid or the 3-speed roadster instead.

So, you know, I'd have to say it's definitely more 'limey' than 'lemony' in 
this case, for sure.

On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 12:01:58 PM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>
>
>   This question reminds me of ... oh for example  fruit.  I like 
> oranges , I like bananas , I like pineapples and I like grapefruits and 
> mangoes and kiwi and all berries !   Just how "fruity" is one compared to 
> the other ?  Ahaahahah !   Not mocking in any way, rather pointing to the 
> truth of the matter no 2 are ever alike and thus each incomparable , all at 
> the same time being "fruity" .   Comparisons are inconceivable as All are 
> already perfectly "fruity" in their nature being wholly Fruit . 
>
>
>
> On Sunday, December 20, 2015 at 6:16:54 PM UTC-5, Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>> Now that the Clems have been out in the wild for a while now, how 
>> "lively" do people think the frame is? I know Riv built this frame to be on 
>> the tough side, but my briefly owned Cheviot felt pretty lively to me, so 
>> I'm wondering if the Clem is in that ballpark (though I think the Cheviut 
>> benefits from not having a top tube 0/0/0 wall thickness!)
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Eric Daume
>> Dublin, OH
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Wheel Lock Anyone?

[Zed Martinez]

I was actually able to order mine from a small bike shop down the street 
for a different bike last year. Only took a couple weeks to get in. Had a 
problem where the first time it was the wrong spacing for mounting bolts, 
but, the Abus rep took care of it for me and the shop owner. I'd say it's 
still worth asking any good local shop because honestly, this is like the 
smallest one in my city and he still had access to the Abus catalog. 

That said, that's the exact model I got. It works just fine on the Clem 
indeed. Adds a little weight to the rear end when picking it up to carry in 
places, but nothing you can really feel on the ride. Add a saddle cable and 
it's great for running through any bags or helmet you might have for a 
little added security on longer lock-ups. Nice lock. Worth it for anyone 
wanting to go in with Mark on'em.

On Sunday, January 3, 2016 at 10:40:25 AM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
>
> 
> The Clem(entines) feature braze-ons on the aft-facing portion of the 
> seatstays for attaching a wheel lock. Rivendell may have briefly carried 
> these, or planned to, I'm not sure. But they don't currently. And 
> apparently neither does anyone else in the U.S. 
>
>
> http://www.abus.com/eng/Mobile-Security/Bike-Safety-and-Security/Locks/Frame-Locks/Amparo-4850
>
> http://www.starbike.com/en/abus-amparo-4850/
>
>
>
> I was thinking of ordering the lock from a German website, Starbike, if 
> others have had a positive experience with this company. They have the 
> locks for $18.21. But with the shipping minus VAT and the euro exchange, it 
> comes to $45.  If two other Clemsters are interested, the total would be 
> $82, for a cost of about $27 each. Assuming additional domestic shipping of 
> max $8 (probably less) that would be $35, still a $10 savings (I would 
> repackage and send out the locks via USPS). I am also assuming these will 
> work with the Clem braze-on spacing (says "easy screwing to the threaded 
> rear frame" in the catalog copy), but I will check with Rivendell tomorrow. 
> If two Clems commit, I will collect via paypal after they arrive to me so I 
> can calculate exact domestic shipping charges to you. (I don't want to deal 
> with more than two, and the incentives start to dwindle after that anyway.) 
> If there is interest, I will go with the first two to commit to paying up 
> to the $35 (with the understanding I will confirm these locks will work 
> with the bike setup and will order tomorrow). 
>
> Note: This is the version in which the key CAN be removed when the lock is 
> in the open position. The plus is an unauthorized person cannot lock up 
> your wheel and make off with the key. The minus is you don't have the 
> security of never forgetting to have your key. Anyway, they do not offer 
> the other version.
>

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[RBW] Re: shellac on brown tape

[Zed Martinez]

Consult the shellac color ranges on the Newbaum's page for reference on how 
the different colors look with 
shellac: http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/gt1.htm In my experience, orange 
tape covered in amber shellac is the best match for the brown of Brooks 
saddles, and the maroon with amber matches the rust C17 the best. My last 
bar got that 'matte' look like in the picture after a few months of riding 
it once my hands and rain had worn the glossy shellac off and left more of 
just the stained tape itself, but, that was also my first shellacked bar so 
not sure if that result is typical.

On Sunday, January 3, 2016 at 1:02:30 PM UTC-5, dstein wrote:
>
> It's Sunday and RBW is closed so maybe the group can help me out here.
>
> Does the brown handlebar tape in these Albastache pictures look shellac'd 
> to you: http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/hb3a.htm
>
> I just rewrapped my albastache bars with brown tape but it looks lighter 
> than in the website pictures. I want a darker tint brown without getting it 
> too shiny, I like the matte look of unfinished handlebar tape. Can't tell 
> if the bars in the website look darker because of the photo and my computer 
> screen, or if it has a light layer of shellac or two. 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Wheel Lock Anyone?

[Zed Martinez]

They're just easy deterrent in low-theft areas if used as a primary lock. 
By themselves they're good for quick stops, like Mark said. Add a cable and 
lock it through with the bolt and you have a way to deter truck-bed thefts 
in low risk areas, too. I use mine a lot as a secondary lock when I'm going 
into places for a while. Wheel lock for quick stops in low-risk areas, 
u-lock for normal city locking, and u-lock plus wheel lock and sometimes a 
small cable through my bags for longer city lock-ups.

On Sunday, January 3, 2016 at 10:47:27 PM UTC-5, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> Are these meant to keep the bike from being stolen, or just the wheel?
> Seems like someone could just toss the bike in their truck and go, or lift 
> the bike from the saddle and roll it away.

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[RBW] Clem Rack Pannier rails?

[Zed Martinez]

Does anyone know the measurements for the Clem Rack pannier rails? I've 
been pondering adding some rails below the deck to my Surly Nice Rack like 
those do on the Clem one, and was curious if it might be worth considering 
getting them and some burly P-clamps for a modular solution rather than 
stripping the rack and spot welding some stainless tubing onto it as new 
rails. Any other suggestions? I know I could just get a Tubus Logo Evo, 
but, thought I'd try doing something clever for once rather than just 
swapping out. Plus, the Nice Rack has been good to me, it's just harder to 
use rear panniers now that I always have a giant Sackville living on it ;)

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[RBW] Re: Clem Rack Pannier rails?

[Zed Martinez]

Mostly, yeah, though how much they drop would be nice to know if not quite 
as important. How fat are they too? Normal rack diameter I assume?

On Thursday, January 7, 2016 at 10:44:42 PM UTC-5, iamkeith wrote:
>
> I have some.  What measurements are you looking for?  Just 
> center-to-center of the mounting holes?
>
> On Thursday, January 7, 2016 at 8:17:27 PM UTC-7, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know the measurements for the Clem Rack pannier rails? I've 
>> been pondering adding some rails below the deck to my Surly Nice Rack like 
>> those do on the Clem one, and was curious if it might be worth considering 
>> getting them and some burly P-clamps for a modular solution rather than 
>> stripping the rack and spot welding some stainless tubing onto it as new 
>> rails. Any other suggestions? I know I could just get a Tubus Logo Evo, 
>> but, thought I'd try doing something clever for once rather than just 
>> swapping out. Plus, the Nice Rack has been good to me, it's just harder to 
>> use rear panniers now that I always have a giant Sackville living on it ;)
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Rack Pannier rails?

[Zed Martinez]

Thanks Howard, and Keith, both of you. Appreciate it. Now, to measure some 
stuff this evening and ponder.

On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 12:53:47 PM UTC-5, Howard Hatten wrote:
>
> Zed,
> The mounting holes are 10.7 in. ctr. to ctr.
> The drop is 1.5 in. 
> The dia. is small, a hair under 5/16
> Hope this helps
> Howard

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[RBW] Whatever else people feel about the long bikes...

[Zed Martinez]

They certainly rock in the snow and ice. Winter finally decided to show up 
here in Indianapolis so I took the fenders off and threw the knobbies on 
the Clem this weekend. Today was the first commute in the bad weather 
(which in my case means basically a straight mile of unplowed, unsalted 
bumpy ice through the local neighborhoods until I hit the trail)... and 
man, the Clem was a much better ride for it than my previous entries. In 
the past I've leaned mostly on my Felt hybrid with its aluminum frame and 
disc brakes with some 35mm Schwalbe Winter Marathons, but, it was always a 
terrifying white knuckle adventure in riding the bumps and hoping the rear 
wheel didn't decide to kick out from under me while following a rut. Even 
with just regular knobbies (the cheaper versions of Continental's Mountain 
King II what that were the only 650b mountain tires in town...), the Clem 
handled everything much more casually and, importantly, much less 
terrifyingly. I can speak for any other Rivs, this being my first, but it 
really felt like the long wheelbase was definitely helping me out today. I 
was notably less likely to get stuck at the mercy of a rut, and the one 
time I hit a slick patch and the bike started to slide I put my inboard 
foot down (like I always do to be ready to walk off the bike as it goes 
down), and hitting the ground with it was enough to knock the bike back 
upright and reset the rear wheel.The bike regained its balance instantly 
and rolled smoothly on back on a straight track. I've had worse 
experiences, for sure. I also have to say, whatever they toted merits, I'm 
increasingly convinced I won't be going back to disc brakes anytime soon. 
On the Felt I had to ride only the front brake because if I touched the 
rear one even lightly it was enough to slide the rear wheel out (Avid 
mechanicals or Shimano hydraulics both). With the cantis on the Clem I 
never felt like I was lacking stopping when I was on the cleared roads, but 
I had enough modulation to use either judiciously while I was on the icy 
stretch and it made things a lot less worrisome for it.

And, because pictures rock, obligatory "It's 7ºF, why are you taking a 
picture?" picture.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/zedmartinez/23697977403/in/album-72157661103966564/

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[RBW] Re: Whatever else people feel about the long bikes...

[Zed Martinez]

Why George, that's because they are ;)

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 8:45:16 PM UTC-5, George Schick wrote:
>
> Zed - some of those pics look an awfully lot like sections of the Monon 
> and Fall Creek Parkway Trails...
>
> On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 6:22:43 PM UTC-6, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>
>> They certainly rock in the snow and ice. Winter finally decided to show 
>> up here in Indianapolis so I took the fenders off and threw the knobbies on 
>> the Clem this weekend. Today was the first commute in the bad weather 
>> (which in my case means basically a straight mile of unplowed, unsalted 
>> bumpy ice through the local neighborhoods until I hit the trail)... and 
>> man, the Clem was a much better ride for it than my previous entries. In 
>> the past I've leaned mostly on my Felt hybrid with its aluminum frame and 
>> disc brakes with some 35mm Schwalbe Winter Marathons, but, it was always a 
>> terrifying white knuckle adventure in riding the bumps and hoping the rear 
>> wheel didn't decide to kick out from under me while following a rut. Even 
>> with just regular knobbies (the cheaper versions of Continental's Mountain 
>> King II what that were the only 650b mountain tires in town...), the Clem 
>> handled everything much more casually and, importantly, much less 
>> terrifyingly. I can speak for any other Rivs, this being my first, but it 
>> really felt like the long wheelbase was definitely helping me out today. I 
>> was notably less likely to get stuck at the mercy of a rut, and the one 
>> time I hit a slick patch and the bike started to slide I put my inboard 
>> foot down (like I always do to be ready to walk off the bike as it goes 
>> down), and hitting the ground with it was enough to knock the bike back 
>> upright and reset the rear wheel.The bike regained its balance instantly 
>> and rolled smoothly on back on a straight track. I've had worse 
>> experiences, for sure. I also have to say, whatever they toted merits, I'm 
>> increasingly convinced I won't be going back to disc brakes anytime soon. 
>> On the Felt I had to ride only the front brake because if I touched the 
>> rear one even lightly it was enough to slide the rear wheel out (Avid 
>> mechanicals or Shimano hydraulics both). With the cantis on the Clem I 
>> never felt like I was lacking stopping when I was on the cleared roads, but 
>> I had enough modulation to use either judiciously while I was on the icy 
>> stretch and it made things a lot less worrisome for it.
>>
>> And, because pictures rock, obligatory "It's 7ºF, why are you taking a 
>> picture?" picture.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/zedmartinez/23697977403/in/album-72157661103966564/
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Brake Levers for Albastache?

[Zed Martinez]

Are you talking just brake levers, or integrated? For just brakes, I like 
the Dia Compe Gran Compe 202 on mine 
(http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/brakes/levers/gran-compe-202-non-aero-brake-levers-drilled.html),
 
though, if I was doing it again I'd get the cheaper non-drilled versions 
(http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/brakes/levers/gran-compe-brake-levers.html).
 
I like the smaller bodies a lot more than the aero Tektro RL340s I used 
previously, and I definitely like old style non-aero cable routing a lot 
more on the albastache. The aero routing always made it hard to run new 
cables through the housing once I wrapped it under shellacked cotton.

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[RBW] Re: Whatever else people feel about the long bikes...

[Zed Martinez]

Where do you think I got the crankset, brake levers, and that Sackville at, 
Chris? ;) I'm the guy who was in some this summer looking at things and 
mentioning I had one of those Clems coming. I'm sure I'll make it back out 
for something else sometime, too. You're just a bit harder for me to get to 
in a hurry from my side of town.

On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 10:20:20 AM UTC-5, Christopher Wiggins 
wrote:
>
> Great looking bike Zed.  Let me know if you ever need any help.  We're in 
> Indy, and a Riv dealer.  
>
> Best,
>
> Chris Wiggins
> Owner
> A1 Cyclery
>
> On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 7:22:43 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>
>> They certainly rock in the snow and ice. Winter finally decided to show 
>> up here in Indianapolis so I took the fenders off and threw the knobbies on 
>> the Clem this weekend. Today was the first commute in the bad weather 
>> (which in my case means basically a straight mile of unplowed, unsalted 
>> bumpy ice through the local neighborhoods until I hit the trail)... and 
>> man, the Clem was a much better ride for it than my previous entries. In 
>> the past I've leaned mostly on my Felt hybrid with its aluminum frame and 
>> disc brakes with some 35mm Schwalbe Winter Marathons, but, it was always a 
>> terrifying white knuckle adventure in riding the bumps and hoping the rear 
>> wheel didn't decide to kick out from under me while following a rut. Even 
>> with just regular knobbies (the cheaper versions of Continental's Mountain 
>> King II what that were the only 650b mountain tires in town...), the Clem 
>> handled everything much more casually and, importantly, much less 
>> terrifyingly. I can speak for any other Rivs, this being my first, but it 
>> really felt like the long wheelbase was definitely helping me out today. I 
>> was notably less likely to get stuck at the mercy of a rut, and the one 
>> time I hit a slick patch and the bike started to slide I put my inboard 
>> foot down (like I always do to be ready to walk off the bike as it goes 
>> down), and hitting the ground with it was enough to knock the bike back 
>> upright and reset the rear wheel.The bike regained its balance instantly 
>> and rolled smoothly on back on a straight track. I've had worse 
>> experiences, for sure. I also have to say, whatever they toted merits, I'm 
>> increasingly convinced I won't be going back to disc brakes anytime soon. 
>> On the Felt I had to ride only the front brake because if I touched the 
>> rear one even lightly it was enough to slide the rear wheel out (Avid 
>> mechanicals or Shimano hydraulics both). With the cantis on the Clem I 
>> never felt like I was lacking stopping when I was on the cleared roads, but 
>> I had enough modulation to use either judiciously while I was on the icy 
>> stretch and it made things a lot less worrisome for it.
>>
>> And, because pictures rock, obligatory "It's 7ºF, why are you taking a 
>> picture?" picture.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/zedmartinez/23697977403/in/album-72157661103966564/
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Whatever else people feel about the long bikes...

[Zed Martinez]

I hadn't thought about something like a big dummy, I bet that's an 
interesting winter ride too. Those are disc, aren't they? How do you find 
the disc braking in icing conditions on that? Was my experience with the 
Felt mostly due to poor weight balancing on the frame, or is it something 
more inherent in how crisply discs can lock a wheel?

On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 10:36:06 AM UTC-5, JohnS wrote:
>
> Nice bike Zed! We haven't had snow yet this year, maybe we'll get a 
> coating this afternoon. Last year I was out in the snow and ice on my Surly 
> Big Dummy, not that has a long wheel base and rode just fine, so I get what 
> you're saying. Schwalbe Fat Franks at 2.35" and a low tire pressure helped 
> too.
>
> Happy trails,
> JohnS
>
>
> On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 7:22:43 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>
>> They certainly rock in the snow and ice. Winter finally decided to show 
>> up here in Indianapolis so I took the fenders off and threw the knobbies on 
>> the Clem this weekend. Today was the first commute in the bad weather 
>> (which in my case means basically a straight mile of unplowed, unsalted 
>> bumpy ice through the local neighborhoods until I hit the trail)... and 
>> man, the Clem was a much better ride for it than my previous entries. In 
>> the past I've leaned mostly on my Felt hybrid with its aluminum frame and 
>> disc brakes with some 35mm Schwalbe Winter Marathons, but, it was always a 
>> terrifying white knuckle adventure in riding the bumps and hoping the rear 
>> wheel didn't decide to kick out from under me while following a rut. Even 
>> with just regular knobbies (the cheaper versions of Continental's Mountain 
>> King II what that were the only 650b mountain tires in town...), the Clem 
>> handled everything much more casually and, importantly, much less 
>> terrifyingly. I can speak for any other Rivs, this being my first, but it 
>> really felt like the long wheelbase was definitely helping me out today. I 
>> was notably less likely to get stuck at the mercy of a rut, and the one 
>> time I hit a slick patch and the bike started to slide I put my inboard 
>> foot down (like I always do to be ready to walk off the bike as it goes 
>> down), and hitting the ground with it was enough to knock the bike back 
>> upright and reset the rear wheel.The bike regained its balance instantly 
>> and rolled smoothly on back on a straight track. I've had worse 
>> experiences, for sure. I also have to say, whatever they toted merits, I'm 
>> increasingly convinced I won't be going back to disc brakes anytime soon. 
>> On the Felt I had to ride only the front brake because if I touched the 
>> rear one even lightly it was enough to slide the rear wheel out (Avid 
>> mechanicals or Shimano hydraulics both). With the cantis on the Clem I 
>> never felt like I was lacking stopping when I was on the cleared roads, but 
>> I had enough modulation to use either judiciously while I was on the icy 
>> stretch and it made things a lot less worrisome for it.
>>
>> And, because pictures rock, obligatory "It's 7ºF, why are you taking a 
>> picture?" picture.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/zedmartinez/23697977403/in/album-72157661103966564/
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Whatever else people feel about the long bikes...

[Zed Martinez]

Nick, I had 35mm Winter Marathons last year. Studs all around the profile, 
great reviews from everyone. Bit it quite a few times, they were just 
narrow enough to just follow the ruts. I'd have just enough traction to 
twist the wheels out from under me. I've seen a few nice new models of 650b 
winter studs on the docket I can maybe get next year, but this year my 
choice was basically between a fatter tire with knobbies only, or a thinner 
one with low stud count, and considering how often I went down last year on 
'thin' and high studs, I opted for just the fatter this year. So far, it's 
been better. I imagine fat + studs would be better still. But, for my 
conditions, the fatter has been better than the studs even on ice so far.

On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 10:53:50 AM UTC-5, NickBull wrote:
>
> Maybe you can sell him some 650B studded tires ...
>
> In my experience, no bike that is just on rubber tires is going to do all 
> that great on rutted ice.  And many models of studded tires don't do all 
> that well on rutted ice, either.  If the studs are only along the 
> centerline, then they only help you climb out of the rut once the tire is 
> nearly perpendicular to the rut.  So that means you have to slide almost 
> far enough to go down before the tire even catches.  I've settled on Nokian 
> Extreme 296's because the studs on the edges of the tire do a good job of 
> catching in ruts.  But even with those tires, there were several patches on 
> last-year's winter commute where the ice was so choppy and the ruts so deep 
> and exactly the width of my tires that I got off and walked a hundred 
> yards, rather than risk going down.  This is winter commuting in DC, where 
> the bike trails that I ride do not get plowed for almost all of my 7-mile 
> winter commute.
>
> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 10:20:20 AM UTC-5, Christopher Wiggins 
> wrote:
>>
>> Great looking bike Zed.  Let me know if you ever need any help.  We're in 
>> Indy, and a Riv dealer.  
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Chris Wiggins
>> Owner
>> A1 Cyclery
>>
>> On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 7:22:43 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>>
>>> They certainly rock in the snow and ice. Winter finally decided to show 
>>> up here in Indianapolis so I took the fenders off and threw the knobbies on 
>>> the Clem this weekend. Today was the first commute in the bad weather 
>>> (which in my case means basically a straight mile of unplowed, unsalted 
>>> bumpy ice through the local neighborhoods until I hit the trail)... and 
>>> man, the Clem was a much better ride for it than my previous entries. In 
>>> the past I've leaned mostly on my Felt hybrid with its aluminum frame and 
>>> disc brakes with some 35mm Schwalbe Winter Marathons, but, it was always a 
>>> terrifying white knuckle adventure in riding the bumps and hoping the rear 
>>> wheel didn't decide to kick out from under me while following a rut. Even 
>>> with just regular knobbies (the cheaper versions of Continental's Mountain 
>>> King II what that were the only 650b mountain tires in town...), the Clem 
>>> handled everything much more casually and, importantly, much less 
>>> terrifyingly. I can speak for any other Rivs, this being my first, but it 
>>> really felt like the long wheelbase was definitely helping me out today. I 
>>> was notably less likely to get stuck at the mercy of a rut, and the one 
>>> time I hit a slick patch and the bike started to slide I put my inboard 
>>> foot down (like I always do to be ready to walk off the bike as it goes 
>>> down), and hitting the ground with it was enough to knock the bike back 
>>> upright and reset the rear wheel.The bike regained its balance instantly 
>>> and rolled smoothly on back on a straight track. I've had worse 
>>> experiences, for sure. I also have to say, whatever they toted merits, I'm 
>>> increasingly convinced I won't be going back to disc brakes anytime soon. 
>>> On the Felt I had to ride only the front brake because if I touched the 
>>> rear one even lightly it was enough to slide the rear wheel out (Avid 
>>> mechanicals or Shimano hydraulics both). With the cantis on the Clem I 
>>> never felt like I was lacking stopping when I was on the cleared roads, but 
>>> I had enough modulation to use either judiciously while I was on the icy 
>>> stretch and it made things a lot less worrisome for it.
>>>
>>> And, because pictures rock, obligatory "It's 7ºF, why are you taking a 
>>> picture?" picture.
>>>

[RBW] Re: Brake Levers for Albastache?

[Zed Martinez]

VO's new thumbie mounts will also work for all types of bars, they 
say: 
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/shifting-freewheels-cassettes/shifters/vo-thumb-shifter-mounts-22-2-23-8.html

On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 11:16:46 AM UTC-5, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>
> Garth, what thumbshifters do you have that fit Albastaches? They are a 
> road diameter bar, and all of the thumbshifters I know of are for mtb 
> diameter bars. 
>
> Eamon

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[RBW] Re: Whatever else people feel about the long bikes...

[Zed Martinez]

I was looking at the Ice Spikers and wondering how they did. They look like 
real monsters, they just weren't in the budget this go around. I'll 
definitely try and take a look into them for next season. Probably have an 
easier time getting ahold of those out here than the Suomi equivalents, at 
any rate. ;)

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 12:03:50 AM UTC-5, Mike Shaljian wrote:
>
> My (48" wheelbase) Jones Plus is feeling super stable in the persistent 
> icy slush of Eastern WA. You Clem/Clementine people should jump on some Ice 
> Spiker Pros! I was amazed at how supple and lively this tire is for a 
> knobby studded, they feel livelier than the 622-40 Marathon Winters I ran 
> on my Sam Hillborne last year. I don't really get them being pigeon-holed 
> for snowy singletrack by some sellers, they inspire supreme commuting 
> confidence in terms of grip, ability to fight through 1-2" of snow and with 
> decent rolling resistance to boot. The relaxed Jones geometry, long 
> wheelbase and spikers make for an all-weather limo.
>
> http://imgur.com/RCBQtkQ
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

Update on the Ol' Man Petersen seat tube decal:

Norman hasn't heard back from his guy on getting a production quote on 
these and expressed some concern about them translating to size. They look 
fine on my tests but he's right in the icons might not fare so well if the 
final print job is too low rez, so, while I wait on that quote I've also 
just just thrown a copy out for a test run from Cafe Press. They have a 
'bumper sticker' that's UV and waterproof and fits two of the decals at 
3x2" @ 233 dpi. So, we'll see how the result of that comes back, and I'll 
adjust things as needed from there. If the Cafe Press ends up being the way 
to do, it'll be $6 or so for two decals economy shipped direct from them 
(you're on your own for xactoing them out ;) and if we go that route I'll 
just make the print file available and people can short order their own as 
they want, negating the need to figure out a group order unless someone 
just wants a killer bulk rate on the printing.

More to come in a couple weeks when I get my test sample back.

On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 6:18:12 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>
> Yeah, I'm waiting to see how much it costs for good ones. Unless anyone 
> knows a shop that does good 4-color vinyl decals with UV resistance and 
> waterproofing, I'm going to try a sample first from Cafe Press, who do a 
> bumper sticker that'll fit two each for $3-4 plus shipping. They'll require 
> a little skill with an xacto knife to prepare for placement, unless enough 
> people prefer I just make a rectangular alternative. Once I know how much 
> printing at a reliable place will be, considering the demand we can work on 
> arranging a pool maybe and splitting them out, or I can always make the 
> print file available and people can order their own a la carte. Just no 
> selling them off to other people, I did tell Eben this was just for funsies 
> ;)
>
> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 6:09:53 PM UTC-5, dougP wrote:
>>
>> Zed:
>>
>> I'll take 2 for our Atlantis', and our SoCal Riv group could use a 
>> bunch.  Jim alone needs a handful for each of his Rivendells.  David, Hugh, 
>> Curtis, et al, lets coordinate this to minimize mailing.  Zed, if this gets 
>> crazy at least cover your costs.  
>>
>> dougP
>>
>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 2:00:38 PM UTC-8, Wayne Naha wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, I'd deck the Clem out with one!
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 4:10:14 PM UTC-5, Liesl wrote:
>>>>
>>>> oh my goodness, I'd take half a dozen 2 for myself, 2 for erin, 1 to 
>>>> give away, and one to keep so I don't fret that I put them on the wrong 
>>>> thing!
>>>>
>>>> really outstanding!
>>>>
>>>> -rcw (who would go amazon berzerker if it were a patch)
>>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

OK, update from Norman. His printer said the file looks good to go and they 
can do it and cut'em, but it'd be 100 stickers and it'd be $101 for the 
total job ($51 for the printing, $50 for the cutting). I hear tell Norman 
might front the money if people can commit to $1 and postage per sticker, 
and if we can get somewhere close to a decent order size I might be able to 
buy out the remainder of the order off of him so he's not out anything. So, 
I guess it's sound off time. How many would we realistically be getting out 
to the group at $1 each plus postage? If we can get half or more of the 
order filled I can maybe absorb the remainders, but lower than that we 
might still need to do a short order solution at a higher per unit cost.

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 1:05:06 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>
> Update on the Ol' Man Petersen seat tube decal:
>
> Norman hasn't heard back from his guy on getting a production quote on 
> these and expressed some concern about them translating to size. They look 
> fine on my tests but he's right in the icons might not fare so well if the 
> final print job is too low rez, so, while I wait on that quote I've also 
> just just thrown a copy out for a test run from Cafe Press. They have a 
> 'bumper sticker' that's UV and waterproof and fits two of the decals at 
> 3x2" @ 233 dpi. So, we'll see how the result of that comes back, and I'll 
> adjust things as needed from there. If the Cafe Press ends up being the way 
> to do, it'll be $6 or so for two decals economy shipped direct from them 
> (you're on your own for xactoing them out ;) and if we go that route I'll 
> just make the print file available and people can short order their own as 
> they want, negating the need to figure out a group order unless someone 
> just wants a killer bulk rate on the printing.
>
> More to come in a couple weeks when I get my test sample back.
>
> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 6:18:12 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, I'm waiting to see how much it costs for good ones. Unless anyone 
>> knows a shop that does good 4-color vinyl decals with UV resistance and 
>> waterproofing, I'm going to try a sample first from Cafe Press, who do a 
>> bumper sticker that'll fit two each for $3-4 plus shipping. They'll require 
>> a little skill with an xacto knife to prepare for placement, unless enough 
>> people prefer I just make a rectangular alternative. Once I know how much 
>> printing at a reliable place will be, considering the demand we can work on 
>> arranging a pool maybe and splitting them out, or I can always make the 
>> print file available and people can order their own a la carte. Just no 
>> selling them off to other people, I did tell Eben this was just for funsies 
>> ;)
>>
>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 6:09:53 PM UTC-5, dougP wrote:
>>>
>>> Zed:
>>>
>>> I'll take 2 for our Atlantis', and our SoCal Riv group could use a 
>>> bunch.  Jim alone needs a handful for each of his Rivendells.  David, Hugh, 
>>> Curtis, et al, lets coordinate this to minimize mailing.  Zed, if this gets 
>>> crazy at least cover your costs.  
>>>
>>> dougP
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 2:00:38 PM UTC-8, Wayne Naha wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I'd deck the Clem out with one!
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 4:10:14 PM UTC-5, Liesl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> oh my goodness, I'd take half a dozen 2 for myself, 2 for erin, 1 to 
>>>>> give away, and one to keep so I don't fret that I put them on the wrong 
>>>>> thing!
>>>>>
>>>>> really outstanding!
>>>>>
>>>>> -rcw (who would go amazon berzerker if it were a patch)
>>>>>
>>>>

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[RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

Sure can.
http://zedmartinez.com/samples/old-man-petersen.png

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 3:09:57 PM UTC-5, Edwin W wrote:
>
> Zed, can you re-post the link to see what they will look like?
>
> Edwin
>

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[RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

How many would you be in for Shoji so we can estimate the numbers?

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 3:50:14 PM UTC-5, Shoji Takahashi wrote:
>
> Looks great, Zed. I'm in, too. 
> shoji
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 3:15:30 PM UTC-5, Zed Martinez wrote:
>>
>> Sure can.
>> http://zedmartinez.com/samples/old-man-petersen.png
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 3:09:57 PM UTC-5, Edwin W wrote:
>>>
>>> Zed, can you re-post the link to see what they will look like?
>>>
>>> Edwin
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

I think between generous donations and straight counts I have $88 people 
will front then, not counting myself and Norman's part? I think we're good. 
I'll let Norman know to pass it along to the printer and update everyone on 
how it's going. Keep sounding off, I'll make a spreadsheet or something 
once I get back from this meeting tonight.

On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 11:14:13 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> *2) Rivendell's retail store is called:*
> --Bike, Book and Hatchet 
> --The Luggery 
> --Ol' Man Petersen's House of Ferrous Velocipedes and Canvas Curios 
> 
> --The Lug N' Tug 
>
> I rather like #3.
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>
> *
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities 
> revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

OK, I'm running a spreadsheet. Quantity requested is one column. Max you're 
willing to donate is in another (same as your quantity request if you 
didn't say, since they're a buck per). My goal is to only charge everyone 
the dollar per and I'll absorb the remainder because frankly, I don't mind 
having the extras around if it comes to that. So, no dollar value for me. 
I'll make good whatever the remainder is. But, right now counting my own 
little reservation of decals, we're doing pretty good, but certainly not at 
the max yet. So, if anyone else wants any, still room in this initial run 
to get in on some.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VYZgviHkLmu_opkYvn5HC5ntQRAmXfX31LLkTlDdG0M/edit?usp=sharing

On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 11:14:13 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> *2) Rivendell's retail store is called:*
> --Bike, Book and Hatchet 
> --The Luggery 
> --Ol' Man Petersen's House of Ferrous Velocipedes and Canvas Curios 
> 
> --The Lug N' Tug 
>
> I rather like #3.
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>
> *
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities 
> revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Schwalbe Big One(s) on Clem.

[Zed Martinez]

Nice! The Big Ones look like awesome tires, but I too would be curious 
about squeezing fenders around them.

On Thursday, January 14, 2016 at 12:46:23 PM UTC-5, David Banzer wrote:
>
> I installed these tires last week but never got to go on a ride as we had 
> some cold temps and snow since then. I still need to install some 
> superlight tubes w/ sealant. They measured around 56mm when first 
> installed. I'll give them a couple weeks before re-measuring.
> I got a chance to commute with these installed on my Clem this morning.
> In short, they're wonderful. Very similar feeling from going from Paselas 
> to Compass tires on another bike. 
> Obviously, they're big tires but very low weight. With Clem's super long 
> chainstays and my winter coat on, I couldn't see what gear I was in. I was 
> surprised to find out that I was pushing 86 gear inches for the entire 
> commute without needing to shift.
> We'll see how long they last in the long term - that'll probably have to 
> wait until spring as I'll be swapping in some Smart Sams shortly. A second 
> wheelset is starting to sound appealing as well.
> The good news is that my Clem will still fit fenders - the fork really is 
> the limiting factor, the rear I think would fit a 29x3.0 tire. I think I'll 
> have to re-think my no-fenders situation as it was a messy commute with 
> lots of dirty slush.
> David
> Chicago
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

Just got this picture in my email. Working out the payment/shipping 
logistics. Will report back soon. Thanks for your patience, everyone.

http://zedmartinez.com/samples/2016-01-15.jpg

On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 11:14:13 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> *2) Rivendell's retail store is called:*
> --Bike, Book and Hatchet 
> --The Luggery 
> --Ol' Man Petersen's House of Ferrous Velocipedes and Canvas Curios 
> 
> --The Lug N' Tug 
>
> I rather like #3.
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>
> *
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities 
> revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

If they're the size from the file they should be right at about 2x3". Like 
a shorter business card.

On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 7:24:24 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Will it fit on a seat tube or a 40 mm fender?
>
> At least, one will go on my car.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Zed Martinez  > wrote:
>
>> Just got this picture in my email. Working out the payment/shipping 
>> logistics. Will report back soon. Thanks for your patience, everyone.
>>
>> http://zedmartinez.com/samples/2016-01-15.jpg
>>
>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 11:14:13 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> *2) Rivendell's retail store is called:*
>>> --Bike, Book and Hatchet <http://www.rivbike.com/>
>>> --The Luggery <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>>> --Ol' Man Petersen's House of Ferrous Velocipedes and Canvas Curios 
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>>> --The Lug N' Tug <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>>>
>>> I rather like #3.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>>> Other professional writing services.
>>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>>
>>> *
>>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
>>> circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities 
>>> revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>>>
>>> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities 
> revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the 
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nomenclature

[Zed Martinez]

I'll see if I can scrounge up a lithograph or two to throw in with my 
envelope for you, Norman. Thanks for all your help with this. And dealing 
with me.

Zed "Holy crap that escalated quickly" Martinez

On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 10:07:40 PM UTC-5, Norman Bone wrote:
>
> Alright sticker peeps, here's the deal.
>
> Send me a self addressed stamped envelope with a dollar for each sticker 
> you want and I'll send them out. If we burn through this initial 100 and 
> there is still demand, I'll do another run.
>
> Send to:
>
> Norman Bone
> 5807 SE 47th Ave
> Portland, OR
> 97206
> Weird obituaries, funny news articles, odd photos, wacky drawings or poems 
> or any off the wall material is appreciated with your order.
>
>
> Norm 'Gimmee a dolla' Bone in wet and wild Portland, OR (Don't move here, 
> it's not like the TV show)
>
>
> --
> *From:* Zed Martinez >
> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch > 
> *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2016 4:34 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: Nomenclature
>
> If they're the size from the file they should be right at about 2x3". Like 
> a shorter business card.
>
> On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 7:24:24 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Will it fit on a seat tube or a 40 mm fender?
>
> At least, one will go on my car.
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Zed Martinez  
> wrote:
>
> Just got this picture in my email. Working out the payment/shipping 
> logistics. Will report back soon. Thanks for your patience, everyone.
>
> http://zedmartinez.com/ samples/2016-01-15.jpg 
> <http://zedmartinez.com/samples/2016-01-15.jpg>
>
> On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 11:14:13 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> *2) Rivendell's retail store is called:*
> --Bike, Book and Hatchet <http://www.rivbike.com/>
> --The Luggery <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
> --Ol' Man Petersen's House of Ferrous Velocipedes and Canvas Curios 
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
> --The Lug N' Tug <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6mILipB0k>
>
> I rather like #3.
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties. com/ <http://www.resumespecialties.com/>
> www.linkedin.com/in/ patrickmooreresumespec/ 
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>
> ** ***
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities 
> revolve. *Chuang Tzu
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties. com/ <http://www.resumespecialties.com/>
> www.linkedin.com/in/ patrickmooreresumespec/ 
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> ** ** 
> 
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities 
> revolve. *Chuang Tzu
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the 
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
> .

[RBW] Re: Bar end shifters on Boscos?

[Zed Martinez]

I used the Dia Compe friction bar ends on a Bosco for about two years, 
liked it just fine, just watch your knees in tight turns. The long straight 
stretch of grippable area really lets you just slide your hand back and 
catch them with either your fingers or palm, it always felt very slick to 
me.

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[RBW] Re: urban/city tire rec: 650b, 38mm or so

[Zed Martinez]

Gotta second the Soma New Xpress, those were great tires. Them and Schwalbe 
Marathons are the only ones I've run on my commuting route that have gone 
flat free, and the New Xpress ride much closer to the Compass stuff than my 
current Mondials do. I've still got a set I'm not using since I switched to 
fatter tire-d rides. Sidewalls are a bit dirty but casing and tread are in 
good shape. Shoot me a message if you like, I could make a good deal on 
them to clear some space myself.

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[RBW] Re: The ups and downs of my Clem Smith Jr

[Zed Martinez]

I'm currently riding Billies on my Clem. I've run them on two, actually, I 
recently just swapped down to a 45cm Clem after admitting to myself the 
52cm was too big, and I've tried the Billies on both. I like them best 
flipped upside down, but my wrists are still pretty fussy after a couple 
years of being just a little too stretched out too often, so, I'm riding 
them the upright way for the moment. They feel notably narrower to me than 
the Boscos did (I had the 58cm also). More aggressive, in both 
positions.Maybe it's just because as you creep up the Billies they really 
do get narrower fast, while the Boscos run more or less straight through 
the bends. The by-the-stem flats of the Boscos were a little better for 
dipping out of the wind, but the on-the-bends hooks of the Billie are less 
stress on my wrists and I can stay in them longer. The Billies come back a 
little farther for the same stem length, so, if you're already banging 
knees they won't help much with that. You could chop'em, but part of the 
appeal is they have enough length for two full hands before the bends, so, 
you can have one position behind the brake lever and one in front. I do 
like that about them a lot. For me the Billie has the more comfortable 
flare angle of the two.

On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 4:51:21 PM UTC-4, Jim Bronson wrote:
>
> The good news about my Clem is that I've been riding it a lot more since I 
> moved.  I now live on a busy 4 lane highway with no shoulders, so I was 
> having to either brave the traffic to get to a side street or trail, or put 
> the bike on the car, which I hate to do if I'm just going out for a fun 
> ride.  I found a gravel path behind my condo complex that goes about a 
> quarter mile to the next cross street to the highway.  From there I can 
> cross the highway and access the regional mixed terrain trail system.  
>
> The shortcut I found has got pretty rough big-ish rocks so I am loath to 
> ride my more roadish Rivendells with their relatively fragile Compass 
> tires.  The Clem though tackles this section with aplumb so I find myself 
> wheeling it out for rides more than my other bikes.  I also find the 
> traction just a little bit better on the pea gravel sections of the 
> regional trails, where the slick Compass tires might kick out a bit going 
> around a corner, the Clem and it's big Kendas track straight and true where 
> I point my wheels.  It just feels a little less squirrely, so to say.
>
> Which is a good segue into what I don't like.  I bought my 65 ClemH 
> complete and one of the things that it came with that I am not super 
> enamored of is the Bosco bars.  This may sound odd since they are 58cm wide 
> (I think) but they feel too narrow and too far back for me.  I feel like I 
> might hit them with my knees when I'm out riding.  I feel I would prefer a 
> bar with less intrusion into my midsection.  I'd also prefer something a 
> little less upright, which I think having a bar that's not so far into my 
> midsection will take care of itself.  It just doesn't feel dialed in the 
> way it is now.
>
> Looking around on Rivendell's website, I like the look of the Billie 
> bars.  I'm just not sure if 58 will be wide enough for my preference.  I'm 
> thinking maybe because they flare out a lot more and much less back than 
> the Boscos, that the 58 might be fine in this form factor.  Truth is my 
> drop bar bikes are only 48cm so having a bar not so far back like the 
> Billie would work I think
>
> Or there is the Aherne+MAP handlebar which is 61.5 cm wide in the wider 
> version.
> https://www.ahearnecycles.com/shop/ahearnemap-handlebar if you're not 
> familar.  I still have some store credit at Rivendell though so this route 
> would cost me more out of pocket.
>
> Anyone tried either of these bars on their Clem?
>
> The other thing I don't like is friction shifting.  Does Microshift or 
> SunRace make an indexed 8 speed thumbie?  I was hoping to re-use the thumb 
> pod and just get the shifter part of it, but I can only find 8 speed in 
> friction.  I could switch to Shimano 8 which would require a different 
> thumb pod or go 9 speed indexed T09 Microshift thumbies which would require 
> a 9 speed cassette and potentially a different derailer.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> -Jim
>
>
>
> -- 
> --
> signature goes here
>

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[RBW] Re: New Mtn Bike = Clem L for Me?

[Zed Martinez]

Hey Doug, having owned one of each:

If for you (the generic you, not necessarily actually you) the Clem is a 
trail/rough-road bike, and you have good flexibility, the H makes more 
sense. It's more rigid, and very obviously shows its old MTB inspiration.

If for you the Clem is a commuter and city bike, the L offers the easier 
step-through, an easier way to carry it through doors (by grabbing the loop 
of the frame. This has actually been way handier than I expected when I 
switched), and somewhat less often mentioned is it makes the bike look a 
lot more laid back for the same geometry and at least where I am drivers 
are considerably more likely to stop and yield for me, and I get more 
smiles from people. It gives that more 'urbane' look and there are benefits 
to that.

If you like nice details, the newer Clem L frames have the heart lug at the 
seat tube, and that's a fancier touch.


On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 1:46:16 PM UTC-4, Doug H. wrote:
>
> I’ve been wondering what the appeal is of the L as opposed to the H Clem. 
> Is it just the ease of stepping through/onto and off of the bike? 
> Doug

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Mtn Bike = Clem L for Me?

[Zed Martinez]

Yeah. I bought one of the 52cm Hs during the original preorder, figuring I 
liked hauling weight so the extra rigidity would be better. After a couple 
years and some recurring wrist and knee issues I admitted the 52 was just 
too big (I'm right on the cusp of the 45 and 52, sizewise), and decidedI 
needed to go the size down. Since I had the chance I opted to try the L 
this time, since I only ever took my H on trails once but I had several 
instances where I almost knocked the bike over trying to get a leg up over 
some tall and heavy loads on the rear rack. So far, I haven't regretted the 
switch, but, like I said, for me the Clem is my commuter and most days my 
car, so...

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 1:59:34 PM UTC-4, Doug H. wrote:
>
> That makes perfect sense Zed. So, you currently ride the L?
> Doug. 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 13, 2018, at 1:57 PM, Zed Martinez  > wrote:
>
> Hey Doug, having owned one of each:
>
> If for you (the generic you, not necessarily actually you) the Clem is a 
> trail/rough-road bike, and you have good flexibility, the H makes more 
> sense. It's more rigid, and very obviously shows its old MTB inspiration.
>
> If for you the Clem is a commuter and city bike, the L offers the easier 
> step-through, an easier way to carry it through doors (by grabbing the loop 
> of the frame. This has actually been way handier than I expected when I 
> switched), and somewhat less often mentioned is it makes the bike look a 
> lot more laid back for the same geometry and at least where I am drivers 
> are considerably more likely to stop and yield for me, and I get more 
> smiles from people. It gives that more 'urbane' look and there are benefits 
> to that.
>
> If you like nice details, the newer Clem L frames have the heart lug at 
> the seat tube, and that's a fancier touch.
>
>
> On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 1:46:16 PM UTC-4, Doug H. wrote:
>>
>> I’ve been wondering what the appeal is of the L as opposed to the H Clem. 
>> Is it just the ease of stepping through/onto and off of the bike? 
>> Doug
>
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[RBW] Re: Thanks for Gus Grant. What's Next?

[Zed Martinez]

There was a thread a couple years back that had a lot of them, I remember 
commenting on it because I had just been doing my own trawl through the 
Readers and a lot of the info was still right at my fingertips as a 
result. 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/DTF4iVqaGPc/O9RE4HmIBQAJ

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 12:38:07 PM UTC-4, Marty Gierke, 
Stewartstown PA wrote:
>
>
> . I'd love the year of release next to each name 
>
> Sounds like you just assigned yourself to some entertaining PI work. You 
> have access to all the readers, how hard could it be? 
>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Film photography - subject matter?

[Zed Martinez]

I carry a little half-frame scale-focus camera with me when I bike. I 
bought a universal camera 'bag' insert about the dimensions of my handlebar 
bag's interior and use that to make a nice pocket for it. Most of my 
'professional' time is spent supporting the local theatre scene through 
marketing photos and headshots, highly structured generally studio work. 
So, on the bike and out-and-about I like to just be looser and do what 
could possibly be stretched to 'street' but is more just snapshot. I've 
been shooting only b&w film, because I vastly prefer how color works in 
digital while I think black and white is really where film was in its 
strongest. Shooting b&w keeps me looking mostly for scenes that will render 
well in it: strong contrast where the subject is easily identified against 
competing elements, tones, geometric compositions, etc. I'll either 
identify a subject and see if they go into suitable lighting, or if I'm 
just out riding for fun if I find a good scene and light I'll stop a bit 
and see if someone comes through to finish it.

The particular half-frame I'm using (Olympus Pen D2) forces me to work 
pretty loose. Since it's just a simple rangefinder without a focus patch 
it's usually to my advantage to favor smaller apertures and a focus 
distance about 3 meters out, so, combined with the very 'approximate' 
bright finder lines, it mostly forces me to focus on looser shots than I 
would probably do with my main camera, which helps keep me considering 
different scenes and situations and helps keep me from getting too myopic 
working only in ways I'm prone to if given the right tools.

I keep some half-frame stuff on Flickr. Bit of a mixed back, some of it is 
serious photo and some just snapshots for me, I try to post a mix of stuff 
since it's a bit of a more unusual and rarer camera just for the collective 
visual 
history. https://www.flickr.com/photos/zedmartinez/albums/72157693250301830

On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 12:41:14 PM UTC-4, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> I marked this OT, but changed my mind, since Grant writes about and shoots 
> analog film.
> My question isn't about gear (no surprise if it goes there, though), it's 
> about subject matter. I have cameras, and film, and some okay ways to carry 
> them on the bike (suggestions there couldn't hurt).  
>
> What I'm looking for is inspiration as I build myself a rule-set for a 
> film photography project. On my morning commutes, I've been keeping my eye 
> out for "what would I shoot if I were shooting film" moments. 
>
> 1. What do you film photographers shoot when you shoot film? Do you 
> approach it differently than phone camera or digital shooting?
> 2. Do you cycle to shoot, or is it a wholly unrelated hobby? 
> 3. Anybody shoot color? I want to do this now, since a friend develops 
> color at home using a sous vide (cooking) setup to control temps.
>
> Please link to your images, if you care to share. I'd really like to see 
> what the film folk are doing.
>
> Philip
> Santa Rosa, CA
>

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Re: [RBW] Film photography - subject matter?

[Zed Martinez]

Patrick, I have some complicated thoughts that lean often negatively about 
Roland Barthe (because, my, he could come across quite pompous), but he has 
this notion when he discusses what he likes about photography called the 
'punctum' that I find to be a very useful term, and an interesting read. 
Either via the long slug in 'Camera Lucida' itself, or readily discussed 
online. The broad stroke, though, is that in some photos for every person 
there is an element that sometimes occurs that sticks out, that 'pricks' 
the viewer, and which dominates the photo for them (in the way that draws 
them in and makes the image last). Barthes opinion if I remember is that 
the punctum has to be an accident, planned elements are contrived or flat. 
it's the accident of a detail that resonates for the viewer which the 
artist could not have known about that's what really drives great 
photography. Not quite the same as what makes a photo 'good,' but, I think 
perhaps it's a concept you'd enjoy.

Also, were those the older film Pens popular on the iBOB? I gather as much 
from the context of the thread, but Olympus loose usage of that term in 
both film and digital means I usually find it safer to ask than assume. 

On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 4:23:25 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Forgot to add that, what, 10 years ago? -- there were recurring threads on 
> the iBoblist about on-bike photography using those extremely primitive and 
> extremely cheap pen cameras, and uploading to the cloud via some very 
> primitive transfer software. Some Bobs got some very surprisingly good 
> results, given the indecently primitive nature of the cameras -- I briefly 
> owned one and got some shots uploaded to the proto-cloud with mine. Kent 
> Petersen was notable for his good results with this minimalist technology. 
> This may be an instance; at any rate, it is Kent's (he gave me permission 
> to use it for my website, which I never did).
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 2:15 PM, Patrick Moore  > wrote:
>
>> This request added by a very definitely non-photographer: Respondents, 
>> please post some of your sample or typical photos per Philip's questions, 
>> be these bike-related or not. I have not taken the trouble to learn 
>> anything of the art beyond the grossest rudiments, but I do enjoy seeing 
>> good photography.
>>
>> [What elements make a good photograph? Subject, treatment, 
>> technicalities. Append sample. I seriously would like to see others' ideas 
>> of what is good. Me, conventional choices, no doubt: Ansel Adams, Roland 
>> and Sabrina Michaud (I still have their Afghan book), and Mirella Ricciardi 
>> (I still have her "Vanishing Africa" book), and Dorothea Lange (have it 
>> too). Back to regular programming.]
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 10:41 AM, Philip Williamson <
>> philip.w...@gmail.com > wrote:
>>
>>> I marked this OT, but changed my mind, since Grant writes about and 
>>> shoots analog film.
>>> My question isn't about gear (no surprise if it goes there, though), 
>>> it's about subject matter. I have cameras, and film, and some okay ways to 
>>> carry them on the bike (suggestions there couldn't hurt).  
>>>
>>> What I'm looking for is inspiration as I build myself a rule-set for a 
>>> film photography project. On my morning commutes, I've been keeping my eye 
>>> out for "what would I shoot if I were shooting film" moments. 
>>>
>>> 1. What do you film photographers shoot when you shoot film? Do you 
>>> approach it differently than phone camera or digital shooting?
>>> 2. Do you cycle to shoot, or is it a wholly unrelated hobby? 
>>> 3. Anybody shoot color? I want to do this now, since a friend develops 
>>> color at home using a sous vide (cooking) setup to control temps.
>>>
>>> Please link to your images, if you care to share. I'd really like to see 
>>> what the film folk are doing.
>>>
>>> Philip
>>> Santa Rosa, CA
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, New Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
>> *
>> ***
>> *Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
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