[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Sure, Jesse. See photos in this post: https://deaconpatrick.org/spring-snow . 
They show how far behind the front wheel I am. It is relatively unweighted, 
so free to float over anything it encounters. With 27.5+ tires, it has an 
outer diameter of close to 30". That gives a lot of rollover clearance 
without much weight on the tire, and giving the front wheel a wee hop to 
help that for bigger, vertical bits, it easy. When I first rode GBW I was 
amazed by the wonderful ease and flow of mountain trail riding with this 
set up. Yeah, I'd read Grant's descriptions of it, but I really had to ride 
it for the "ahhh-ha!" to click in place. This really is how mountain bikes 
are meant to be.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 6:08:44 PM UTC-7, Jesse wrote:
>
> On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 9:54:07 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> - yes the front wheel is harder to hop over things, *but there is nearly 
>> no need because of weight distribution of the bike.* Yes, I still go 
>> over logs and rocks, far better than my Hunqapillar does.
>>
>
> DP, can you expand on this a bit? Thanks.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[hugh flynn]

You shouldn't be surprised by that at all.  From my time working in bike
retail I can say many $8k+ bikes are sold to people who don't know how to
fix a flat let alone care about gear ratios, pneumatic trail, frame angles,
or even the fact that handlebars can be raised or lowered. Members of the
Bob/riv lists are a special, self-selected, set of enthusiast bike nerds
(said with the upmost respect I assure you as I is one too).

Do you think, for example, that Jimmy Carter agonized over chainstay length
before ordering his Rivs?

I hope not.

Hugh "just ride" Flynn
Newburyport, MA

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 2:33 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:

>
> It would be surprising to me that someone would spend the money on a
> Rivendell without being quite educated about bikes, but let's face it,
> Rivendell is quite a "lifestyle brand" in a sense since Grant has a unique
> perspective in the industry. So I guess it could happen. Rivendells are
> meant to be a "don't worry about the details and just ride your bike" kind
> of company but at the price point, I think most buyers are fairly die-hard
> cyclists who have probably done a fair bit of their own wrenching.  Always
> exceptions, though.
>
> Back to the topic at hand, I do wonder where the dust will settle - the
> pendulum can sometimes swing a bit, and it's completely possible that the
> average CS length will decrease in the next three years.  Maybe it'll
> further increase.  That's the topic of debate, though.  I have fully bought
> into the idea that most people ride bikes with too-short chainstays, and I
> also believe that front-centers getting longer (and stems getting
> correspondingly shorter) is a benefit to most riders.  But I also believe
> that most too-short chainstays are only too short by a small margin on
> small sizes.  It's a completely different thing to put 50cm chainstays on a
> 61cm frame versus a 51cm frame, and the latter is, in my opinion, a bad
> idea (unless it's a touring bike).
>
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> 
> .
>
-- 
Hugh Flynn
Newburyport, MA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

I believe Jimmy Carter's Rivs were gifts. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[masmojo]

Yes, Hugh that's my point entirely. I think I'd worry less about the 
satisfaction of getting a friction shift right & more about the satisfaction of 
changing ones own tire.
On the other hand bike shops are suffering now, they can use all the flats you 
have to be fixed!

People who don't know how to fix a flat buy bikes online. They don't have any 
tools, etc. Then they end up paying to have it assembled. Ultimately, these 
days it's not even about saving money, it's just that front end convenience of 
clicking & buying. Even if it means more work on the back end. 
It's like they see it, get excited, click on it & when it shows up, maybe 
they're surprised it's not assembled!?
It hurts my brain. 

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Atlantis

[masmojo]

Yes, but he is ramping up production, he was having things done in small 
batches in LA; if I am not mistaken he's now getting larger batches out of 
Taiwan.

Yes, the Nor'Easter is sweet,  but would basically be a duplicate of my 
Atlantis. 

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[RBW] FS: 62 Sam, 58 Sam, Rosco Babys and some Surly Framesets

[Steven Garen]

Is the LHT 26 or 700c?

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Julian Westerhout]

Jason, 

A visit to my LBSs reveals that the Clems are in the lower cost range 
compared to the big makers, and most of the other Rivs are well within the 
norm. I hear from these LBSs that sticker shock is pretty common for folks 
coming in the door and looking for anything over a basic cruiser -- but for 
many looking at bikes who have looked at the big makers at LBSs Rivs will 
not seem overly costly. 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, IL 



On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 1:33:16 PM UTC-6, Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>
> It would be surprising to me that someone would spend the money on a 
> Rivendell without being quite educated about bikes, but let's face it, 
> Rivendell is quite a "lifestyle brand" in a sense since Grant has a unique 
> perspective in the industry. So I guess it could happen. Rivendells are 
> meant to be a "don't worry about the details and just ride your bike" kind 
> of company but at the price point, I think most buyers are fairly die-hard 
> cyclists who have probably done a fair bit of their own wrenching.  Always 
> exceptions, though. 
>
> Back to the topic at hand, I do wonder where the dust will settle - the 
> pendulum can sometimes swing a bit, and it's completely possible that the 
> average CS length will decrease in the next three years.  Maybe it'll 
> further increase.  That's the topic of debate, though.  I have fully bought 
> into the idea that most people ride bikes with too-short chainstays, and I 
> also believe that front-centers getting longer (and stems getting 
> correspondingly shorter) is a benefit to most riders.  But I also believe 
> that most too-short chainstays are only too short by a small margin on 
> small sizes.  It's a completely different thing to put 50cm chainstays on a 
> 61cm frame versus a 51cm frame, and the latter is, in my opinion, a bad 
> idea (unless it's a touring bike).
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Swift Zeitgeist Saddle Bag, Nitto Rear Racks

[Jed Sachen]

Andre,

So I'm new to the touring world (and the bike world in general) and I'm
wondering if you know:
- will the bigger rack fit a 26" bike (bridgestone xo-2, 52 cm)
- will the mt campee easily support most panniers? (also going on a 26"
bike), I'm assuming the bigger rack will.
also, I believe the larger rack is the 'campee 33r rack'

Thanks,
Jed

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 2:22 PM Andre Rosario  wrote:

> *Correction*: I just checked and it seems that the Big Rear Rack is
> actually the larger size (35cm height).
>
> Also, I realized that I could have done a much better job with the
> original posting, so I'm attaching some more detailed photos here,
> including some that show the blemishes. For the Mt Campee, the struts that
> attach to the cantilever posts are included (with hardware) in the baggie
> shown below. The upper struts shown are 12cm in length, but if you prefer I
> can swap them out for either 18cm or 24cm depending on what you think you
> need for your frame. For the Big Rear (32R), the struts shown are 18cm.
>
> Mt. Campee:
>
> [image: IMG_1671.HEIC] [image: IMG_1672.HEIC]
> 
>
> [image: IMG_1673.HEIC] [image: IMG_1675.HEIC]
>
> [image: IMG_1676.HEIC]
>
> Big Rear (33R):
>
> [image: IMG_1677.HEIC] [image: IMG_1679.HEIC]
>
> [image: IMG_1678.HEIC]
>
> On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 7:55:28 PM UTC-8, Andre Rosario wrote:
>>
>> Hi, folks. This isn't, strictly speaking, a Rivendell post, so I hope
>> it's okay with y'all. Please let me know if not. I'm unloading a few
>> things, which I'd prefer to sell locally (Oakland, CA), but which I can
>> also ship (CONUS) for an extra $15.
>>
>> - Swift Industries Zeitgeist Saddle Bag (small) in charcoal and saffron
>> yellow. Lightly used, in very good condition with straps. $100
>> - Nitto Big Rear Rack. A couple scrapes, but fundamentally sound and
>> still very pretty. Struts and hardware included.  $120
>> - Nitto Mt. Campee rear rack. Very good condition. Struts and hardware
>> included. $85
>>
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the Big Rear Rack is the medium size, but can anyone tell
>> me how to confirm this?
>>
>> [image: IMG_1586.jpg][image: IMG_1533.jpg]
>>
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: daily post ur riv

[James Valiensi]

Hi,
I had my configured with the Albatross bars (steel version) twice over the 
years. The one you described sounds like something I did about 8-years ago. 
I posted the photo on Flickr. I can no longer access my Flickr account so I 
cannot help find it. 

The past 3-years I had another set of Albatross bars (aluminum version) 
with a tall Nitto stem and 1 x 10 drive train. I recently decided to put it 
back the way I intended when I got the bike in 2003.  One change is no 
front rack. This frame has horrible steering geometry and any load on the 
front makes it worse. I'm putting a Velo Orange lightweight rear rack and a 
small bag on the back. The rack will tie into the rear fender.

My paint color was not a stock Rivendell color at the time. I ask Joe Bell 
to call me when he got the frame and then we decided on the color. 
Rivendell was quite surprised when the frame came back to them in a color 
different than the one listed on the order form. I gave them more money and 
they were good.

I have the original Chris King silver, no branding headset. It was on for 
ten years and still is perfect. I should put it back on. 

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 7:52:43 PM UTC-8, Chris L wrote:
>
> Is there a photo out there of this bike with albatross bars and a Sugino 
> wide-low crankset?  The bike is leaning against a corner.  The size and 
> color look the same but this was before I discovered RBW so maybe that was 
> a common color.  The albatross photo was one of the first to spark my 
> fascination with Rivendell bikes. 
>
>
>
> On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 5:43:33 PM UTC-6, James Valiensi wrote:
>>
>> [image: IMG_1316.jpeg]
>>
>> My 17-year old Custom Rivendell Road Bike. Only original parts on it are 
>> the fenders, which I recently reinstalled after 15-years off. 
>>
>> I love the Rene Herse crankset. It was the 1st time, in a long time that 
>> I got to use my Campagnolo peanut butter wrench!
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] WTB: Nitto R-14 Rear Rack

[Applegate]

Hi all,

The description covers most of this. I'd be fine to get the RBW one, but 
would need to weld on a light-mounting tab, and at that point I'd prefer to 
just buy the R-14 new. Let me know if anyone has one lying around!

Thanks,

Alex Applegate

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

['Kurt Henry' via RBW Owners Bunch]

BBDD, I think I've followed along in this thread and a few other related 
ones, but to make sure I'm with you:  the two bikes in your photo are both 
set up for you to ride vs. one of yours and one set up for someone else?  I 
know angles can on photos can distort distances, but it looks like the 
closest Clem is noticeably longer than the Clementine against the car.  
Maybe 6 inches difference?  I thought you were talking about a difference 
that you felt when you ride or have to move it around, but that pic makes 
it looks like a difference that you would clearly see just walking by.  Not 
going to say that I'm not curious to try out one of the long wheelbase 
bikes, but that's a lot of wheelbase to chew on...
Kurt Henry
Lancaster, PA - where I've sold three bikes in the past 6 months, have at 
least one more that needs to find a new home, and REALLY shouldn't be 
looking at bringing one back in.  But I'll be darned if I'm not getting 
mixte curious.  If that's a thing.

On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 7:18:19 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> These are fair questions, and I’ll see if I can answer them. But first, I 
> cannot wait for your 2019 Clem L to be saddled up and ridden hard. You owe 
> me a story. 
>
> Next, what is making me unhappy about my Clem? Please let me say that I 
> don’t dislike the bike - I do like it, I just wanted to LOVE it. I still 
> just may - but it’s different than what I thought I had purchased, and I’m 
> hoping I get used to it. It also should be said that Riv NAILED the blue 
> paint - have you ever seen a blue so pretty?  Here are the things that irk 
> me: 
> 1. It’s too long for my bike rack. That is pretty straightforward. 
>
> 2. I keep hitting it on things when I walk it backwards. It’s just so 
> LONG, and when I’m moving it around it seems to hit into things all the 
> time. I don’t remember the Clementine being this way, but I will admit I 
> could be wrong.
>
> 3. In that vein, It’s awkward to lift. At school I have to lift it over a 
> curb and I’m never certain I’m going to be able to do it. You should have 
> seen me with the Betty - we made bike-lifting look good! I don’t remember 
> the Clementine being this awkward, but again, I may be wrong. See below for 
> a comparison of the Aquatine and the Clem. It’s LONG. Imagine me swinging 
> this bike around. But I do.
>
>
>
> 4. I had to scoot my saddle pretty far forward for it to feel right. I 
> think this is a drastic measure that really signifies the bike is too long. 
> Website says over 5’5” can ride the 52, so why am I pushing my saddle 
> forward? 
>
> Today I hopped on my Betz and talk about shock. The bike felt short. I 
> felt short. I stood up to pedal and wondered if I might fall over the front 
> wheel. It was weird - and this was my one and only for 7 years! I would 
> never expect it to feel weird.
>
> Then I got on the Clem and felt like I was 7 feet tall. It’s amazing how 
> different these bikes are and what you can get used to. I will keep at it, 
> never fear. I want the bike to do its thing and I really want to feel 
> comfortable. I think you’ll note your 2019 is way different than your OC. I 
> await your report - which you will undoubtedly treat us to here.
> PS Very clever - apples to clementines.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 6, 2020, at 3:49 PM, Mark Roland  > wrote:
>
> 
> Hi BBDD! I have a horse in this race (2019 Clem L) but it's not saddled 
> up--in fact the wheels aren't yet built. When that blessed event takes 
> place, I will be able to compare it to the memory of my OC (Original 
> Clementine.)
>
> I have to say I am still unsure as to what is making you unhappy about 
> your new Clem L. I doubt it is heavier than the old one, which had bigger 
> diameter tubing. The extra inch of chainstay would at best be a wash. I 
> understand the limits of a big bike in terms of portage and storage, for 
> sure. In terms of handling, you mention it not being as "nimble" as your 
> other bikes--so specifically, it is "less nimble" than your inherited Aqua 
> Clementine?
>
> It sounds like the bike successfully avoided whatever was in its path in 
> the scenario below. Maybe you could try letting go a bit more and let it do 
> its thing? When I first got my Clementine, the Bosco bars were way out of 
> my normal experience. That's why I committed to giving them 100 days with 
> no judgement, just ride 'em. This is not to suggest a compromise in any 
> way, as is sometimes implied when the term "get used to it" is used. It 
> just means that if your body is really feeling an actual response 
> difference, assuming it's not something inherently unsafe, it may just be 
> giving your nervous system and other parts of your being some time to 
> adjust.
>
> I had a Big Dummy for a few years, when my son was younger. Of course it 
> was heavy, and often, but not always, loaded. But it was a fun bike to 
> ride, I enjoyed it quite a bit, and missed it after I sold it. The 
> chain

[RBW] WTB: Handlebar bag

[Sean Hipkin]

Hi all, I'm on the hunt for a tall handlebar bag. Something like a Large 
Gilles Berthoug. Thanks so much!

Sean

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Leah Peterson]

Kurt, 

You got it right - those are both my bikes and both are set up for me in that 
photo. The 2015 vs the 2019. You notice it by walking by for sure - even if you 
aren’t a bike person. I’m telling you it’s a difference you feel, a difference 
you see, and it causes real issues on bike racks and when backing out or 
maneuvering in tight spaces. I remember Roberta hauling her bike up the 3 
stairs into a bus and making the sharp turn down the aisle. I don’t know how 
that would go with a 2019 Clem.

Mixte curious - it’s a thing. And you’ll wonder why you waited and find 
yourself abandoning your diamond frames in favor of the mixte. They are the 
sexiest, loveliest and most practical and comfortable bikes. (She says as an 
angry mob comes for her. 😬)
L

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 8, 2020, at 9:15 AM, 'Kurt Henry' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 

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[RBW] Re: FS: 62 Sam, 58 Sam, Rosco Babys and some Surly Framesets

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

700c, thanks for the clarification...

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:14:13 PM UTC-5, Steven Garen wrote:
>
> Is the LHT 26 or 700c?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Important to note here too is the reality that with the mixte/low swooping 
top tube of a Clementine (I persist in calling it that, though technically 
the Clem L) and the Hillibikes Gus Boots Willsen et al, a person will "fit" 
2-3 frame sizes, so part of the frame buying process is to understand which 
one makes sense for the riding a person does. It creates the idea for the 
buyer that "I could go medium and more aggressive bars (noodles, moustache, 
etc), or large and bullmoose/wavy/Jones, or XL and and more upright, back 
bars. What kind of riding do I do? 

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[lconley]

First Riv was a Blue headtube Sam Hillbourne. I was looking for something 
for light touring and the blue headtube versions were on sale ($900?). 
Probably found Rivendell through Google. First build was with Peter White 
built 48 spoke Velocity Chuckers on Phil/Son hubs - indestructible rims - 
most other parts came from Riv. Second build after I got my Bombadil was as 
a one speed.





[image: SingleSpeedSam50.jpg]



On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:52:28 PM UTC-5, Pancake wrote:

> Leah's discussion about long wheel base led to a lot of interesting 
> discussions about how people found Rivendell. I'd like to know:
>
>- How you first found out about Rivendell?
>- What caused you to actually get your first Rivendell frame or 
>component (or something Riv inspired) ... and what was that first buy?
>- And could you add a photo of that first?
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[Joe Bernard]

I'm an original True Believer. My initiation to being an adult cycling person 
was going to a Bridgestone shop with a friend and seeing the XO-1 with 
Moustache Handlebars in the catalogue they gave me. I eventually bought a '94 
XO-3 and signed up for the Bridgestone Owner's Bunch, which got folded into an 
RBW membership to get Rivendell Readers (my memory is fuzzy on how that 
transition worked). My first Riv product was a water bottle, my first Rivbike 
was many years later..a Romulus in 2003. 

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[RBW] WTT: IRD Defiant 94bcd 175 arms for 170 or 172.5 arms

['Justin August' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Looking to trade!
I have: IRD Defiant 94bcd 175 arms
I’d like to trade for 170 or 172.5 arms

Thanks ahead of time!
-J

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Re: [RBW] How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[John Phillips]

Eric, looking at the photo of you next to your Quickbeam, I'm flummoxed. In 
which direction did Riv think you should go, larger frame or smaller, or 
sideways to a different model?

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 11:02:40 AM UTC-8, Eric Norris wrote:

> Side note: As readers of this list know, Rivendell has very specific ideas 
> about how a bicycle should fit that are somewhat different from more 
> traditional approaches. The staff in Walnut Creek was firmly convinced that 
> the Quickbeam I selected would not fit, I would not like it, and I would 
> inevitably be back to return it. As I recall, they almost asked me to sign 
> a waiver. The bike fit perfectly, and almost 15 years later I’m still 
> riding it. I’m not disputing Rivendell’s bicycle fit philosophy, just 
> pointing out that one size (or method) does not fit all.
>
> --Eric N
>

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Re: [RBW] How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[masmojo]

I guess around 88-89 I had a pretty decent job and I'd gotten a nice bonus, I 
was looking to replace the custom Cruiser I had built with a mountain bike. My 
buddy was managing a bike shop in Austin and said he'd help me choose 
something. I drove up from Houston and looked at what he had, the two I was 
going back & forth between were an MB-1 & a Klein Pinnacle. It was the 80s so 
you hafta know I went with the fluorescent green Klein,  but I've always kinda 
regretted it. 
6 months later I'm in pretty good shape & start racing. The shop I raced for 
carried Bridgestone & half the team rode MB-1s, fast forward until the XO-1 
came out. I preordered my purple XO-1. I read articles by Grant in Bicycling 
amongst others, as he championed riding road bikes offroad. Bridgestone closed 
up shop here and I was aware Grant open Rivendell. I may have gotten some early 
Rivendell correspondence, but by that time I had the Klein,  a Fat City Monster 
Fat, XO-1 and a couple wicked cruisers. I was pretty much set for quite a 
number of years, especially since the bulk of what Rivendell was doing was road 
bikes and I had no real interest in road bikes. My XO was all the road bike I 
needed.

Fast forward to a few years ago, life happened, wife, 2 kids and more than a 
few extra Lbs. I had picked up a Rawland Drakkar for commuting in 2010, but I 
was looking for something I could transition into old age with, my old XO-1 was 
really 1 size too small for me and I wanted something a bit more relaxed I 
could hook a trailer to. Somehow I stumbled on the Rivendell Clementine. 
Ironically, the trailer I have doesn't fit the Clementine, so half the reason I 
bought it was negated. 
Since then I've gotten an Atlantis  & a Roscoe Bubbe. 

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[RBW] Re: long shot: looking to test ride a 60cm Cheviot in the DC area

[Tom Wyland]

What's this about the "new" Cheviot?  Anyone have details?

Tom

On Saturday, December 28, 2019 at 11:22:09 AM UTC-5, Paul Richardson wrote:
>
> i've got a wolbis on the way to meet *my* long wheelbase needs.  it's my 
> wife who's in need of a new bicycle.  grant convinced me to wait 'til 
> april(ish) when the new cheviot comes out.  i'm trusting whatever changes 
> they make, and colors they offer, will be compelling.
>
> paul
> takoma park, md.0
>

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[RBW] Re: How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[Glen]

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 10:52:28 AM UTC-7, Pancake wrote:
>
> Leah's discussion about long wheel base led to a lot of interesting 
> discussions about how people found Rivendell. I'd like to know:
>
>- How you first found out about Rivendell?
>
> 1996 century ride swag bag included a Reader and catalog

>
>- What caused you to actually get your first Rivendell frame or 
>component (or something Riv inspired) ... and what was that first buy?
>
> Sometime around 2005 I was looking for 28mm tires and found out there was 
a Rivendell dealer about 20 miles away. I drove up to Saturday Cycles to 
buy some Ruffy Tuffies and rode the owners 62cm Rambouilet. The next week I 
bought the 64cm model off his floor. Having long legs and a short torso it 
was the first bike that fit well.
 

>

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[RBW] Re: How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[Gabriel Bruguier]

I first heard of Rivendell in 2015.  I had recently bought my first nice 
bike (an early Reynolds-tubed Crosscheck), and was poring over forums 
learning about parts upgrades, different set-ups, and the like.  I saw the 
name Rivendell come up frequently, so I checked them out.  I wanted an 
Atlantis so bad, but it was way out of reach on my grad student budget.  So 
I tinkered around on the Crosscheck, learned how to wrench at the bike 
coop, and developed into a regular bike nut.  Around this time I also 
discovered this group!  

In January 2017 I got my first Rivendell-- the Rosco Road Fatty 
.
  
By that time in my life I was done with grad coursework and was working an 
actual job, so I started on the course that I presume lots of other bike 
nuts take--I became infatuated with a bike for a season or two, then moved 
on.  I sold the Rosco on here in August 2017 and that partially funded my 
purchase of a 2003 Atlantis 

 
later in September.  In August 2018, I picked up a Cheviot 

 
on here.  In December 2019 I sold the Atlantis, and the Cheviot is still 
for sale.  I've really been trying to keep my bike nut tendencies in check, 
as least concerning the rapid turnaround of bikes.

Prior to the Crosscheck I was a regular bike commuter, but completely 
ignorant of upscale frames and components.  I commuted on a 90s Trek 
Antelope 800 and 70s Schwinn LeTour II that I got from a pawnshop and local 
seller, respectively.  

Photos of the various builds have been posted previously, I've linked those 
above.  

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[RBW] Re: FS: 60cm Cheviot complete, Crust Towel Rack build

[Gabriel Bruguier]

Bump!  F/f/hs & wheelset are still available.

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[RBW] Re: How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Abe, what a fun and fantastic topic! Thanks for starting it. Look at that 
delicious darling baby! 😍 I shall try not to covet her over here, but it’s 
asking a lot. 

1. How did you find out about Rivendell? 
After a life of garage sale Huffys and Walmart specials, I had no taste of 
finery in bicycles. But when my Walmart Schwinn started making screeching 
sounds I decided I’d really get something good this time - off of 
Craigslist, naturally. I never spent much money on myself in those early 
days. I was 31 and had 2 little boys. I got a used Trek Fx 7.6 and spent a 
whopping $400; the bike was worth more, but the seller and I bonded (both 
nurses) and she gave me a screaming deal. Finally, finally, FINALLY in 
possession of a “nice” bike, I could not understand why I was secretly 
disappointed. Super light frame, skinny tires, flat bars. My neck hurt. 
Other stuff hurt. The bike felt squirrely when I pulled a Trek tagalong 
with my son on it (duh). I couldn’t sit up and look around. I was sick to 
my stomach that I had spent so much money on myself and disappointment was 
what I had to show for it.

I started searching online forums when the bike shops I tried (and I tried 
‘em all) were of no help. Someone mentioned “Rivendell.” The name was more 
than enough to get me looking and I hit their website and read every last 
word typed there. I loved everything about it. Then I found out how much 
they cost and nearly tipped over. If I thought $400 was over the top, $2400 
sounded like an impossible dream. We simply were not in the habit of being 
so extravagant.

2. What caused you to get your first Rivendell frame? What was the first 
buy?

I would never spend that kind of money without talking to my spouse. I 
broke it to my husband. He thought I was nuts. Completely nuts. He couldn’t 
see anything that would make a Rivendell bike $2k better than this 
perfectly good Trek. (He’s very financially responsible, and it will never 
matter how much money we have - he’s always going to be practical and 
humble about it. I love this about him. Also, I hate this about him. 🤣) 
But, seeing what it meant to me, he agreed to it if I’d sell the Trek (I 
did! For a profit!) and if we could finally cut cable, which he’d been 
dying to do and I had road blocked. (It was 2012. It’s 2020, and we still 
don’t have cable.)

Keven talked me into a Betty Foy. He had a Betty Foy. Vince had a Betty 
Foy. Since I was pulling kids, I should have a Betty Foy. But there were 
none to be had. He said he’d dig through warehouse. I waited. He called me 
back and he had unearthed 2 Betty Foys in my size from somewhere in the maw 
of the warehouse and he was ready for my credit card digits, please. 

My best friend from college lived in Los Gatos, so when the bike was built 
up, I drove from SoCal (where we were living then) and we girls went to get 
it. Will was a new hire at the time. It was a Saturday and Harry H was 
working. Grant and Mary swung by for a minute (via car) and Grant slapped a 
rare earth Rivendell magnet on my bars. I was star struck.

3. Photo of New Bike Day. 
I had to dig, but I found them. You know what else I found? The new bike 
day photos for the next several Rivendells my family went on to purchase 
after listening to me blather on about mine. Should I send those, too? 😂




On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 9:52:28 AM UTC-8, Pancake wrote:
>
> Leah's discussion about long wheel base led to a lot of interesting 
> discussions about how people found Rivendell. I'd like to know:
>
>- How you first found out about Rivendell?
>- What caused you to actually get your first Rivendell frame or 
>component (or something Riv inspired) ... and what was that first buy?
>- And could you add a photo of that first?
>
> Personally, I was overweight and looking to make my biking more 
> comfortable back in 2004 in Berkeley. Searching online led me to look at 
> Brooks saddles and sweptback handlebars and ultimately to Rivendell to buy 
> some steel Albatross bars ... which I still use today! On a student budget, 
> I attached them to a Jamis Coda Sport (steel frame) with beefed up wheels 
> from The Missing Link bike co-op. Then about 2 years ago my friend Ronnie 
> gave me a Cheviot frame to build up as a distraction while waiting to 
> adopt. The moment I finished building the bike, as I was attaching the 
> pedals my wife pulled into the garage, jumped out of the car and with tears 
> and a huge smile and told me to get plane tickets to Kansas because our 
> daughter was about to be born! Now our daughter is almost 2 years old and I 
> have the Cheviot, a Sam Hillborne, and the same friend is lending me a 
> Rosco Baby frame until that we built a couple weeks ago for front kid seat 
> rides. 
>
> When Grant met my daughter, he noticed the "Baby Muggle On Board" sticker 
> on our car window ... he was rightfully concerned that we didn't know if 
> she was a muggle or not!
>
> Ride on,
> Abe
>
> Some pics o

[RBW] Re: How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[Daniel D.]

I first heard mocking references to rivendell and grant on forums and 
blogs.  Read some of Grant's writings.  Even though I liked wool, steel, 
axes, etc.  I joined in the mocking.

On a whim I went by Rivendell.  I loved the store and everyone I interacted 
with.  Every time I've been by I've enjoyed the visit.  Test rode a 
hillborne, loved it.  I never got one, still kick myself occasionally for 
not pulling the trigger on a $1600 craiglist hillborne that looked like it 
was fresh from Rivendell.  My having money and Sams being in stock never 
coincided.
>
>
I heard about the roadini and it seemed to be a great match for my riding.  
I've always bought off the rack and decided to build from a frame.  I had a 
few other frames in the running.  In the end decided I wanted to support a 
great company  with my dollars.  


[image: IMG_20190211_151848071_HDR.jpg] 

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[RBW] Re: FS: 60cm Cheviot complete, Crust Towel Rack build

[Gabriel Bruguier]

Oops, the Paul Racers and other Paul bits are also available.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Lester Lammers]

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:15:45 PM UTC-5, Kurt Henry wrote:
>
> BBDD, I think I've followed along in this thread and a few other related 
> ones, but to make sure I'm with you:  the two bikes in your photo are both 
> set up for you to ride vs. one of yours and one set up for someone else?  I 
> know angles can on photos can distort distances, but it looks like the 
> closest Clem is noticeably longer than the Clementine against the car.  
> Maybe 6 inches difference?  I thought you were talking about a difference 
> that you felt when you ride or have to move it around, but that pic makes 
> it looks like a difference that you would clearly see just walking by.  Not 
> going to say that I'm not curious to try out one of the long wheelbase 
> bikes, but that's a lot of wheelbase to chew on...
> Kurt Henry
> Lancaster, PA - where I've sold three bikes in the past 6 months, have at 
> least one more that needs to find a new home, and REALLY shouldn't be 
> looking at bringing one back in.  But I'll be darned if I'm not getting 
> mixte curious.  If that's a thing.
>
> On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 7:18:19 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>>
>> These are fair questions, and I’ll see if I can answer them. But first, I 
>> cannot wait for your 2019 Clem L to be saddled up and ridden hard. You owe 
>> me a story. 
>>
>> Next, what is making me unhappy about my Clem? Please let me say that I 
>> don’t dislike the bike - I do like it, I just wanted to LOVE it. I still 
>> just may - but it’s different than what I thought I had purchased, and I’m 
>> hoping I get used to it. It also should be said that Riv NAILED the blue 
>> paint - have you ever seen a blue so pretty?  Here are the things that irk 
>> me: 
>> 1. It’s too long for my bike rack. That is pretty straightforward. 
>>
>> 2. I keep hitting it on things when I walk it backwards. It’s just so 
>> LONG, and when I’m moving it around it seems to hit into things all the 
>> time. I don’t remember the Clementine being this way, but I will admit I 
>> could be wrong.
>>
>> 3. In that vein, It’s awkward to lift. At school I have to lift it over a 
>> curb and I’m never certain I’m going to be able to do it. You should have 
>> seen me with the Betty - we made bike-lifting look good! I don’t remember 
>> the Clementine being this awkward, but again, I may be wrong. See below for 
>> a comparison of the Aquatine and the Clem. It’s LONG. Imagine me swinging 
>> this bike around. But I do.
>>
>>
>>
>> 4. I had to scoot my saddle pretty far forward for it to feel right. I 
>> think this is a drastic measure that really signifies the bike is too long. 
>> Website says over 5’5” can ride the 52, *so why am I pushing my saddle 
>> forward? Pehaps the stem is too long?*
>>
>> Today I hopped on my Betz and talk about shock. The bike felt short. I 
>> felt short. I stood up to pedal and wondered if I might fall over the front 
>> wheel. It was weird - and this was my one and only for 7 years! I would 
>> never expect it to feel weird.
>>
>> Then I got on the Clem and felt like I was 7 feet tall. It’s amazing how 
>> different these bikes are and what you can get used to. I will keep at it, 
>> never fear. I want the bike to do its thing and I really want to feel 
>> comfortable. I think you’ll note your 2019 is way different than your OC. I 
>> await your report - which you will undoubtedly treat us to here.
>> PS Very clever - apples to clementines.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2020, at 3:49 PM, Mark Roland  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Hi BBDD! I have a horse in this race (2019 Clem L) but it's not saddled 
>> up--in fact the wheels aren't yet built. When that blessed event takes 
>> place, I will be able to compare it to the memory of my OC (Original 
>> Clementine.)
>>
>> I have to say I am still unsure as to what is making you unhappy about 
>> your new Clem L. I doubt it is heavier than the old one, which had bigger 
>> diameter tubing. The extra inch of chainstay would at best be a wash. I 
>> understand the limits of a big bike in terms of portage and storage, for 
>> sure. In terms of handling, you mention it not being as "nimble" as your 
>> other bikes--so specifically, it is "less nimble" than your inherited Aqua 
>> Clementine?
>>
>> It sounds like the bike successfully avoided whatever was in its path in 
>> the scenario below. Maybe you could try letting go a bit more and let it do 
>> its thing? When I first got my Clementine, the Bosco bars were way out of 
>> my normal experience. That's why I committed to giving them 100 days with 
>> no judgement, just ride 'em. This is not to suggest a compromise in any 
>> way, as is sometimes implied when the term "get used to it" is used. It 
>> just means that if your body is really feeling an actual response 
>> difference, assuming it's not something inherently unsafe, it may just be 
>> giving your nervous system and other parts of your being some time to 
>> adjust.
>>
>> I had a Big Du

Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Leah Peterson]

Well, Lester, we’ve been over this. I have the shortest stem money can buy on 
that bike now. That’s an old photo. There’s only like 100 posts on this topic, 
try to keep up! 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 8, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Lester Lammers  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:15:45 PM UTC-5, Kurt Henry wrote:
>> BBDD, I think I've followed along in this thread and a few other related 
>> ones, but to make sure I'm with you:  the two bikes in your photo are both 
>> set up for you to ride vs. one of yours and one set up for someone else?  I 
>> know angles can on photos can distort distances, but it looks like the 
>> closest Clem is noticeably longer than the Clementine against the car.  
>> Maybe 6 inches difference?  I thought you were talking about a difference 
>> that you felt when you ride or have to move it around, but that pic makes it 
>> looks like a difference that you would clearly see just walking by.  Not 
>> going to say that I'm not curious to try out one of the long wheelbase 
>> bikes, but that's a lot of wheelbase to chew on...
>> Kurt Henry
>> Lancaster, PA - where I've sold three bikes in the past 6 months, have at 
>> least one more that needs to find a new home, and REALLY shouldn't be 
>> looking at bringing one back in.  But I'll be darned if I'm not getting 
>> mixte curious.  If that's a thing.
>> 
>>> On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 7:18:19 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>> These are fair questions, and I’ll see if I can answer them. But first, I 
>>> cannot wait for your 2019 Clem L to be saddled up and ridden hard. You owe 
>>> me a story. 
>>> 
>>> Next, what is making me unhappy about my Clem? Please let me say that I 
>>> don’t dislike the bike - I do like it, I just wanted to LOVE it. I still 
>>> just may - but it’s different than what I thought I had purchased, and I’m 
>>> hoping I get used to it. It also should be said that Riv NAILED the blue 
>>> paint - have you ever seen a blue so pretty?  Here are the things that irk 
>>> me: 
>>> 1. It’s too long for my bike rack. That is pretty straightforward. 
>>> 
>>> 2. I keep hitting it on things when I walk it backwards. It’s just so LONG, 
>>> and when I’m moving it around it seems to hit into things all the time. I 
>>> don’t remember the Clementine being this way, but I will admit I could be 
>>> wrong.
>>> 
>>> 3. In that vein, It’s awkward to lift. At school I have to lift it over a 
>>> curb and I’m never certain I’m going to be able to do it. You should have 
>>> seen me with the Betty - we made bike-lifting look good! I don’t remember 
>>> the Clementine being this awkward, but again, I may be wrong. See below for 
>>> a comparison of the Aquatine and the Clem. It’s LONG. Imagine me swinging 
>>> this bike around. But I do.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 4. I had to scoot my saddle pretty far forward for it to feel right. I 
>>> think this is a drastic measure that really signifies the bike is too long. 
>>> Website says over 5’5” can ride the 52, so why am I pushing my saddle 
>>> forward? Pehaps the stem is too long?
>>> 
>>> Today I hopped on my Betz and talk about shock. The bike felt short. I felt 
>>> short. I stood up to pedal and wondered if I might fall over the front 
>>> wheel. It was weird - and this was my one and only for 7 years! I would 
>>> never expect it to feel weird.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Then I got on the Clem and felt like I was 7 feet tall. It’s amazing how 
>>> different these bikes are and what you can get used to. I will keep at it, 
>>> never fear. I want the bike to do its thing and I really want to feel 
>>> comfortable. I think you’ll note your 2019 is way different than your OC. I 
>>> await your report - which you will undoubtedly treat us to here.
>>> PS Very clever - apples to clementines.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
> On Jan 6, 2020, at 3:49 PM, Mark Roland  wrote:
> 
 
 Hi BBDD! I have a horse in this race (2019 Clem L) but it's not saddled 
 up--in fact the wheels aren't yet built. When that blessed event takes 
 place, I will be able to compare it to the memory of my OC (Original 
 Clementine.)
 
 I have to say I am still unsure as to what is making you unhappy about 
 your new Clem L. I doubt it is heavier than the old one, which had bigger 
 diameter tubing. The extra inch of chainstay would at best be a wash. I 
 understand the limits of a big bike in terms of portage and storage, for 
 sure. In terms of handling, you mention it not being as "nimble" as your 
 other bikes--so specifically, it is "less nimble" than your inherited Aqua 
 Clementine?
 
 It sounds like the bike successfully avoided whatever was in its path in 
 the scenario below. Maybe you could try letting go a bit more and let it 
 do its thing? When I first got my Clementine, the Bosco bars were way out 
 of my normal experience. That's why I committed to giving them 100 days 
 with no judgement, just

Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[j.schwartz]

@Iambbo APPROVE 

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Re: [RBW] Re: How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[Joe Bernard]

Send all the New Bike Day pics, Leah! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[Joe Bernard]

He matchy-matches clothes and bikes. That's sweet. And hilarious. But mostly 
sweet 😉

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Paul! You like step-throughs even more than me!!! 

My wheels are all 650B. My stem is a 50. I hope you are wrong wrong wrong 
because I really want this bike to work now that I’ve purchased it and decked 
it out. I don’t know if it feels twitchy in handling; not that I realize, but 
heaven help me if I ride Dorothy’s 45 and figure out that you are right. 😩😩😩

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Leah, rest assured! I used a 5cm stem for several years and loved it on 
both my QB and Hunqapillar. They both sport Bullmoose, at max height and 
also ride beautifully. Others rave about the 3cm and even 0cm stems offered 
by someone here recently.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 5:21:42 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Paul! You like step-throughs even more than me!!! 
>
> My wheels are all 650B. My stem is a 50. I hope you are wrong wrong wrong 
> because I really want this bike to work now that I’ve purchased it and 
> decked it out. I don’t know if it feels twitchy in handling; not that I 
> realize, but heaven help me if I ride Dorothy’s 45 and figure out that you 
> are right. 😩😩😩

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

Yes and the stem length issue is being directed at a very specific situation, 
the Baby Bike. I'm not sure we can use that to compare to other frames. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Paul, I re-measured my PBH and get 81. Makes more sense. 

D. Patrick - that is so encouraging. Truly. I like my bars at max height as 
well. 

I wish I lived closer to some of your bike folks and you could see the bike and 
how it fits and tell me if I’ve gotten it right. It feels right, but it’s 
amazing what you get used to...

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

Let's all take a road trip to Nevada! The Bicycle Belle Rivendell Jamboree!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Leah, sounds like you're doing great and have it well in hand. I took years 
to learn to make big changes then dial toward wee ones. If you want, 
however, feel free to try the vicarious version of us being there. Ride by 
feel. Arms tired? Core sore? Anywhere talking to you? Hands numb? When you 
pedal, do the top of your hip bones go up and down because you're reaching 
for the pedal? Anything else strike you? Side photo of you riding on the 
bike, feet at 12 and 6 (top and bottom), in your normal position. Of 
course, you'll get too may opinions and many contradictory, so we may not 
be much help. Grin.

Note: counter intuitively, lowering the saddle will also effectively raise 
the handlebars and shorten reach, just as raising the handlebars does. I 
ride with my saddle lower, as that's what I preferred with fixed gear.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 5:50:53 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Paul, I re-measured my PBH and get 81. Makes more sense. 
>
> D. Patrick - that is so encouraging. Truly. I like my bars at max height 
> as well. 
>
> I wish I lived closer to some of your bike folks and you could see the 
> bike and how it fits and tell me if I’ve gotten it right. It feels right, 
> but it’s amazing what you get used to...

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[RBW] Re: How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[reynoldslugs]

>
> Hi Riv Gang:
>

Rivendell came along to me, and substantially improved my life, in nineteen 
and ninety-nine, IIRC. 

This was pre-hipster era,  before the current boom in customs and the 
current availability of good steel bikes.

So one night in 1999, I was drinking beer with The Reverend Rex (Mookie 
LeRoy), complaining that I didn't like the bikes then in vogue - for all 
the reasons discussed on this forum.  Everything was aluminum, indexed, and 
uncomfortable. Couldn't find Books saddles and Phil hubs anywhere.

The Rev handed me a Rivendell Catalog, with a picture of one of the 
Rivendell staff in a wool sweater with baggy shorts.  

I knew then that my ship had come in, that I had found my people.I 
visited RBWHQ and bought a Heron Road.  I've acquired, and still own and 
ride a number of the Rivendell models. I eventually gave my Quickbeam to 
the Reverend out of gratitude for introducing me to Rivendell (plus my bad 
knees precluded SS  and fixed riding.  So anyway the Rev now rides my QB).

I bought the Heron because I wanted a good steel bike, with good 
craftsmanship, and no ergo/STI fancy stuff that I didn't understand.  
Things have changed, evolved since 1999 (I don't drink beer or anything 
else these days)- but my reasons for riding Rivendells and other steel 
bikes remain the same: craftsmanship, comfort of steel, good clearances and 
comfortable, common sense geometry.


Pics of my various Rivendells - an emerald green Road Standard, the Heron 
(now a 650b), Rambouillet, Atlantis, Legolas, Roadeo and maybe one or two 
others are on my flickr page, along with a few other bikes:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/albums

20 years on, and I'm very grateful.

Cheers

Max B
Santa Rosa CA




 

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Re: [RBW] Re: daily post ur riv

[James Valiensi]

Yup that’s it.

> On Jan 8, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Chris L  wrote:
> 
> Here is the photo.  Sounds like your bike.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 11:15:00 AM UTC-6, James Valiensi wrote:
> Hi,
> I had my configured with the Albatross bars (steel version) twice over the 
> years. The one you described sounds like something I did about 8-years ago. I 
> posted the photo on Flickr. I can no longer access my Flickr account so I 
> cannot help find it. 
> 
> The past 3-years I had another set of Albatross bars (aluminum version) with 
> a tall Nitto stem and 1 x 10 drive train. I recently decided to put it back 
> the way I intended when I got the bike in 2003.  One change is no front rack. 
> This frame has horrible steering geometry and any load on the front makes it 
> worse. I'm putting a Velo Orange lightweight rear rack and a small bag on the 
> back. The rack will tie into the rear fender.
> 
> My paint color was not a stock Rivendell color at the time. I ask Joe Bell to 
> call me when he got the frame and then we decided on the color. Rivendell was 
> quite surprised when the frame came back to them in a color different than 
> the one listed on the order form. I gave them more money and they were good.
> 
> I have the original Chris King silver, no branding headset. It was on for ten 
> years and still is perfect. I should put it back on. 
> 
> On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 7:52:43 PM UTC-8, Chris L wrote:
> Is there a photo out there of this bike with albatross bars and a Sugino 
> wide-low crankset?  The bike is leaning against a corner.  The size and color 
> look the same but this was before I discovered RBW so maybe that was a common 
> color.  The albatross photo was one of the first to spark my fascination with 
> Rivendell bikes. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 5:43:33 PM UTC-6, James Valiensi wrote:
> 
> 
> My 17-year old Custom Rivendell Road Bike. Only original parts on it are the 
> fenders, which I recently reinstalled after 15-years off. 
> 
> I love the Rene Herse crankset. It was the 1st time, in a long time that I 
> got to use my Campagnolo peanut butter wrench!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>  
> .
> 

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Re: [RBW] How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[Michael Cinibulk]

I learned about Rivendell in 1997 when I was educating myself Online on 
high-end steel road frames and manufacturers. I ended up buying a Waterford but 
became a Riv member shortly thereafter and continued to follow them along with 
BQ.  I’d always wanted an Atlantis When they were introduced but couldn’t 
justify another bike and they kept going up in price; but then when I was 
looking for a new frame to build up in 2009 that would take tires larger than 
30 mm, Riv introduced a low cost version, Sam Hillborne so I bought one and 
built it up myself. I commute on it daily and it serves as my tourer and gravel 
bike. I love it! Oh by the way, my first purchase was LS Merino tee sometime 
around 2000 and I still wear it regularly. 

Mike C
Bellbrook OH

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

Ah, that's a good data point, Patrick. If there's one thing that's almost 
universally true in cycling it's this: not-serious cyclists run the saddle too 
low, serious cyclists learn this is bad and raise their saddle too high. 
Everyone reading this should drop their saddle just a bit lower than they think 
is reasonable right now. Now a little bit more. Now ride for a week, your 
saddle was too high. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Paul Clifton]

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 6:49:42 PM UTC-6, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Yes and the stem length issue is being directed at a very specific 
> situation, the Baby Bike. I'm not sure we can use that to compare to other 
> frames. 


 I don't necessarily agree. I'm pretty sure stem length effects handling on 
every bike to some degree, and the Baby Bike's head tube angle is 70.5*, 
which is only a little bit slack. So I do think the concept applies. 
However, you're right that Leah's experience isn't quite the same as mine, 
and I'm definitely projecting some of my own personal nitpicking. On the 
other hand, many of us have bought a bike that didn't work for us (fit, 
handling, component mistmatches, etc.) and when you get down to a 50mm stem 
with Bosco bars and the bike still feels weird, it's possible that it's the 
wrong size.

Leah wrote:

> I hope you are wrong wrong wrong because I really want this bike to work 
> now that I’ve purchased it and decked it out. I don’t know if it feels 
> twitchy in handling; not that I realize, but heaven help me if I ride 
> Dorothy’s 45 and figure out that you are right.
>

Leah, I know you'll ride the bike and enjoy it. I rode my Long Haul Trucker 
with a 50mm stem for thousands of miles and loved most of them. I also 
fretted over how it felt for many of those miles and built and rebuilt it 
for years. It was definitely somewhat too big, but it was the bike I had, 
and it was GREAT! For me, the hardest part of being a bike nerd is letting 
go of a bike I love in spite of it's shortcomings (longcomings .. nah ...). 
It's even harder to get rid of a bike than to want a bike and not get to 
own it. But the bikes that I don't work and I have to get rid of always 
teach me something about what works and what doesn't. Either way, bike life 
is good.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Paul Clifton]

Leah, I forgot to ask ...

Are you interested in selling any of those stems you tested? I'm looking 
for a 90mm (or 80mm maybe) and would be glad to buy one of yours.

Or maybe a trade for the 80mm dirt drop stem I have on the baby bike right 
now, if you are inclined to try a riser stem.

Paul

P.S. Step-throughs are about 50% of my bikes. But they get ridden the most. 
All the rest are uni-taskers for fast and rowdy rides, and I'd get rid of 
them all before the baby bike and mtbubbe.

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 6:21:42 PM UTC-6, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Paul! You like step-throughs even more than me!!! 
>
> My wheels are all 650B. My stem is a 50. I hope you are wrong wrong wrong 
> because I really want this bike to work now that I’ve purchased it and 
> decked it out. I don’t know if it feels twitchy in handling; not that I 
> realize, but heaven help me if I ride Dorothy’s 45 and figure out that you 
> are right. 😩😩😩

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[RBW] FS: Jones Spaceframe Plus

[maxcr]

The bike and bags have been sold. Thanks for looking.

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[RBW] How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[Pancake]

Thanks for all the delightful stories and photos! This has been so fun to read 
through today! Keep those Irvin stories coming.
Abe

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[RBW] Switching Appaloosa from 700 to 650b

[PaulS]

Unless you plan on riding down the trail straddling the top tube, I’d not worry 
about it. My Hunq is the same way. Fits great when riding, but no stand over. 
I’m not worried about it one bit. I’m done having kids anyway. 

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[RBW] Re: Switching Appaloosa from 700 to 650b

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Plus one for low to no stand over clearance and technical trail riding. 
This is the set up of both my Hunqapillar and QB and I've ridden Rocky 
Mountain trails with and without loads and bailed any number of times and 
never once had an issue. If you're bailing onto the top tube, you're doing 
it wrong anyroad. Gus Boots Willsen is a near mixte, and I really don't 
notice a difference in the top tube or not.

With abandon,
Patrick 

On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 8:03:12 AM UTC-7, Friend wrote:
>
> Hey Friends,
> I ride a 62cm Appaloosa and love it.  When I ride it the size seems 
> perfect.  When I straddle it the top tube is *right* in my groin.  It 
> makes me hesitant when riding it off road.  I have thought of switching it 
> to 650b rims to gain an extra 2.5 cm but I'm not sure it's worth it.  Other 
> option is trying to trade for a 58cm which I have never ridden.  Has anyone 
> been in a similar predicament?  2.5cm seems insubstantial to make the 
> switch to 650b.
>

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[RBW] Re: How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

['Eric Myers' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'd ridden bikes as a kid and had a Cannondale touring bike in college, but 
then nothing for about 15 years.  Around 2007 my wife and I decided that 
bike riding would be a good family activity for us and our young child.  We 
got three-speeds (mine was a beat up 67 Raleigh Superbe), but I fell in 
love with riding and wrenching on bikes again, and started looking for a 
newer bike to tinker around with.  I came across Rivendell in my research, 
loved what I read, and knew I couldn't afford one.  I bought a 1984 Univega 
Gran Turismo on Craigslist, and a Dirt Drop stem and barend shifters for it 
from Riv.  Not too long after, the Sam Hillborne was introduced and the 
description was a perfect match for what I wanted.  But I still couldn't 
afford one.  Ten years later I had too many bikes, but mostly rode my Gran 
Turismo and a Bridgestone XO-3.  One day browsing CL again, but this time 
trying to figure out what I could sell some bikes for, I came across a NOS 
Hillborne frame in my size, in the original green.  I bought it, I built it 
up, and have barely ridden anything else since.  I've sold about half my 
old bikes, and plan to sell most of the rest this spring.  Everything Grant 
said about the Sam in that first article is true, not just a sales a pitch, 
and I grin every time I get on that bike.

-Eric


On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 9:52:28 AM UTC-8, Pancake wrote:
>
> Leah's discussion about long wheel base led to a lot of interesting 
> discussions about how people found Rivendell. I'd like to know:
>
>- How you first found out about Rivendell?
>- What caused you to actually get your first Rivendell frame or 
>component (or something Riv inspired) ... and what was that first buy?
>- And could you add a photo of that first?
>
> Personally, I was overweight and looking to make my biking more 
> comfortable back in 2004 in Berkeley. Searching online led me to look at 
> Brooks saddles and sweptback handlebars and ultimately to Rivendell to buy 
> some steel Albatross bars ... which I still use today! On a student budget, 
> I attached them to a Jamis Coda Sport (steel frame) with beefed up wheels 
> from The Missing Link bike co-op. Then about 2 years ago my friend Ronnie 
> gave me a Cheviot frame to build up as a distraction while waiting to 
> adopt. The moment I finished building the bike, as I was attaching the 
> pedals my wife pulled into the garage, jumped out of the car and with tears 
> and a huge smile and told me to get plane tickets to Kansas because our 
> daughter was about to be born! Now our daughter is almost 2 years old and I 
> have the Cheviot, a Sam Hillborne, and the same friend is lending me a 
> Rosco Baby frame until that we built a couple weeks ago for front kid seat 
> rides. 
>
> When Grant met my daughter, he noticed the "Baby Muggle On Board" sticker 
> on our car window ... he was rightfully concerned that we didn't know if 
> she was a muggle or not!
>
> Ride on,
> Abe
>
> Some pics of my other Rivendell bikes (and the Rosco Baby with those 
> original Albatross bars) here - https://imgur.com/a/wWgiDmh
>
> [image: IMG_4021.jpg]
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[Drw]

Early 2000’s fixie craze. I converted a number of lugged Japanese toad bikes to 
fixed and then single speed bikes. Got the taste for lugs and classic looks. 
rivendell (and velo orange) sold brakes and other parts that Made these 
conversions easier. That was my introduction. Coincidentally, a lot of my bike 
friend group at the time were riding Bridgestone xo’s and rb’s. With the 
mustache bars and tire logo, I didn’t quite get it and didn’t make the 
Bridgestone-rivendell connection for some time.

First real riv product I bought was a saddle sack small (still have it), and I 
was sorta flabbergasted at the quality. Thought I’d never have enough money to 
buy an actual bike from rivendell, but then “somehow” ended up with a hunq 
frame like a month later. 

I’ve now owned 2 sams, 2 atlanti, a Clem, a roscoe bubbe and that hunq. Still 
have 3 of those in family circulation.

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[RBW] Hauling a 7' Ski Pole by Hunqapillar

[PaulS]

Should be fairly easy to rig something up with a piece of pvc. Lots of ideas if 
you look up fishing pole carrier for bicycles

ie
https://www.instructables.com/id/Fishing-Rod-Holder-for-Your-Bike/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Leah Peterson]

I’m sorry, Paul, I sold all the stems. I heard stems will sit a while, but they 
were snapped right up. I’m sorry!

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 8, 2020, at 5:58 PM, Paul Clifton  wrote:
> 
> 
> Leah, I forgot to ask ...
> 
> Are you interested in selling any of those stems you tested? I'm looking for 
> a 90mm (or 80mm maybe) and would be glad to buy one of yours.
> 
> Or maybe a trade for the 80mm dirt drop stem I have on the baby bike right 
> now, if you are inclined to try a riser stem.
> 
> Paul
> 
> P.S. Step-throughs are about 50% of my bikes. But they get ridden the most. 
> All the rest are uni-taskers for fast and rowdy rides, and I'd get rid of 
> them all before the baby bike and mtbubbe.
> 
>> On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 6:21:42 PM UTC-6, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> Paul! You like step-throughs even more than me!!! 
>> 
>> My wheels are all 650B. My stem is a 50. I hope you are wrong wrong wrong 
>> because I really want this bike to work now that I’ve purchased it and 
>> decked it out. I don’t know if it feels twitchy in handling; not that I 
>> realize, but heaven help me if I ride Dorothy’s 45 and figure out that you 
>> are right. 😩😩😩
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Drw]

Hey Paul,
Can you describe the differences between the roscoe mtnmixtie (I also have one) 
and the Clem L?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

"I’m sorry, Paul, I sold all the stems. I heard stems will sit a while, but 
they were snapped right up. I’m sorry!"

Wrapped in Christmas ribbon. You couldn't even see what they looked like and 
she sold every one immediately. That was crazy! 

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[RBW] Re: How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[Joe Bernard]

Speedblends!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Paul Clifton]

Joe's comment got me thinking, and I realized I never really said what I 
meant to say about the qualities of long bikes. I really didn't mean to 
meander off back to Leah's bike fit, and stem shopping. My bad ...

*The opinions expressed in this opinion are entirely opinions. I'm not 
trying to disagree with anyone. Just my interpretation of my experience of 
long bikes.*

The thing I like about long bikes is swoopiness. I may try to describe 
swoopiness, if anyone wants, but maybe everyone knows what I'm sayin', and 
I'll leave it at that. It's the feeling of riding that I find enhanced by 
the long Rivs. 

I'm speculating about geometry, but maybe swoopiness comes from the 
combination of how far in front of the back wheel you are and how far 
behind to front wheel you are. Also, the bike has to maintain a somewhat 
normal riding position to qualify as a bike, so seatstay angle and length 
have a fairly narrow acceptable range.

I've been trying to figure out exactly how chainstay length relates to 
that. Grant says 'stability' right? I think basically more bike out back 
increases the bike's tendency to return to vertical. Maybe it has to do 
with mellowing the impact changes in rider weight when dancing on the 
pedals and steering with thighs and hips in a way that makes it easy to 
ride standing up no hands, or to use your hips as leverage for 
countersteering when digging into a curve. Like, you can just sit down into 
the bike and get it turning, but you have to push the handlebar pretty hard 
to keep it from stabilizing.

Long top tubes put the rider further behind the front wheel, which may also 
reduce the impact of rider movements/minor imbalances on the steering.

Slacker head tube angles may play a role, but it's not everything. Riv 
makes swoopy bikes that aren't particularly slack these days, and there are 
very slack modern MTBs that aren't exactly swoopy. But head tube angle does 
impact how straight the wheel tracks, so it's another factor in stability.

So the swept back handlebars are an answer to a long effective top tube, 
but they also make it possible to run a long stem. And IMO stem length 
enhances the swoopy effect. It may give more leverage for countersteering. 
I really don't know. Maybe the more leverage for countersteering that's 
built in to the setup, the less it feels like you actually have to push to 
keep the bike leaning. So maybe upping leverage keeps the swoopiness and 
minimizes the perceived effort of swooping.

So, long effective top tubes, long chainstays, long stems with very swept 
back bars make swoopy bikes. Assuming the front end geometry is 
complimentary. I like swoopy bikes, but I doubt everyone does. Swoopy bikes 
are easy to ride standing up with no hands and they are easy to carve turns 
while going fast down double track. Fun to jump up and down on the pedals 
and howl at the moon or stand up and surf on the top tube. All the added 
stability of length makes sure the the bike returns to vertical anytime a 
swoop gets out of hand, but add a bit of effort during the swoop.

Drw,

The MTBubbe is less swoopy than the Baby Bike. The MTBubbe feels quicker in 
terms of handling and acceleration, but it may not be. As a townie, I'd 
take the Baby Bike for sure. Touring or mountain biking would really be 
splitting hairs between the two and would depend on the specific ride. 
That's assuming the tubing was up to the task. The 45 Clem L is way too 
small for me, but I can tell that it'd swoop for someone. My wife loves it, 
in a way she's never loved any bike, but I've never asked her if she thinks 
it swoops. She rides it like it swoops though.

Paul

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