Re: [python-uk] A question about etiquette for posting jobs or looking for extra help on freelance gigs

[Michael]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 15:22, Chris Adams  wrote:

> Hi folks
>
> I've been a lurker on this list for a while, and I'd like to post a
> request for help for a 3-6 month long freelancer project, but I wanted to
> check what the etiquette was before I did this about posting jobs.
>
> From - https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk - the sign up
page for this list:

This list is to help UK Python users to form a community, arrange events,
advertise help or jobs wanted or sought and generally chat.
I'd say post. Adding something to make filtering simpler is always nice
though.


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] C is it faster than numpy

[Michael]

Hi,

On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 at 16:22, BELAHCENE Abdelkader <
abdelkader.belahc...@enst.dz> wrote:

> Hi,
> What do you mean?
> the python and C programs are not equivalent?
>
>
The python and C programs are NOT equivalent. (surface level they are: they
both calculate the triangular number of N, N times, inefficiently and
slowly, but the way they do it is radically different)

Let's specifically compare the num.py and the C versions. The pure python
version *should* always be slower, so it's irrelevant here. (NB, I show a
version below where the pure python version is quicker than both :-) )

The num.py version:

* It creates an array containing the numbers 1 to n. It then call's
num.py's sum function with that array n times.

The C version :
* Calls a function n times. That function has a tight loop using a long
that sums all the numbers from 1 to n.

These are *very* different operations. The former can be vectorised, and
while I don't use num.py, and while I'm not a betting person I would bet a
Mars bar that the num.py version will throw the array at a SIMD
implementation. A cursory look at the source to numpy does indeed show that
this is the case (fx: grabs a mars bar :) ), and not only that it's
optimised for a wide variety of CPU architectures.
https://github.com/numpy/numpy/tree/main/numpy/core/src/common/simd

If you don't know what that means, take a look at this --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_SIMD_Extensions numpy however
supports multiple versions of SIMD - including things like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVX-512 - which is pretty neat.

Upshot - numpy will /essentially/ just throw the entire array at the CPU
and say "add these, give me the result". And it'll be done. (OK there's a
bit more to it, but that's the principle)

By contrast your naive C version has to repeatedly create stack frames,
push arguments onto it, pop arguments allocate memory on the stack, etc.
It's also single threaded, and has no means of telling the CPU "add all
these together, and I don't care how", so it literally is one after the
other. The actual work it's doing to get the same answer is simply much
greater and many many more clock cycles.

If you took the same approach as numpy it's *possible* you *might* get
something similarly fast. (But you'd have a steep learning curve and you'd
likely only optimise for one architecture...)

Aside: What size is the *value*  the C version is creating? Well it's just
(n * n+1 ) /2  - primary school triangular number stuff. So 50K
is 1250025000 - which is a 31 bit number. So the C version will fail on a
32 bit machine as soon as you try over 65536 as the argument... (On a
64bit machine admittedly the fall over number is admittedly higher... :-) )

C and C++ *are* faster than pure python. That's pretty much always going to
be the case ( *except* for a specialising python compiler that compiles a
subset of python to either C/C++/Rust or assembler). However, python +
highly optimised C/C++/etc libraries will likely outperform naive C/C++
code - as you've ably demonstrated here.

Why? Because while on the surface the two programs are vaguely similar -
calculate the triangular number of N, N times.  In practice, the way that
they do it is so different, you get dramatically different results.

As a bonus - you can get faster than both your num.py and C versions with
pure python, by several orders of magnitude. You can then squeeze out a few
more percent out of it.  Output from a pure python version of a piece of
code that performs the same operation - calculates the triangle number of
N, N times:

michael@conceptual:~$ ./triangles.py 1500
time using pure python: 1.81 sec
time using pure python & memoisation: 1.7 sec

Note that's 15 million, not 50,000 - and it took the same time for my
machine (recent core i7) as numpy did for you on your machine for just
50,000. That's not because I have a faster machine (I expect I don't).

What's different? Well the pure python version is this - it recognises you
were calculating  the triangular number for N and just calculates that
instead :-)

def normaltriangle(n):
   return (n*(n+1))/2
... called like this ..
   tm1=it.timeit(stmt=lambda: normaltriangle(count), number=count)
   print(f"time using pure python: {round(tm1,2)} sec")

The (naive) memoisation version is this:

def memoise(f):
   cache = {}
   def g(n):
   if n in cache:
   return cache[n]
   else:
   X = f(n)
   cache[n] = X
   return X
   return g

@memoise
def triangle(n):
   return (n*(n+1))/2

... called like this ...
   tm2=it.timeit(stmt=lambda: triangle(count), number=count)
   print(f"time using pure python & memoisation: {round(tm2,2)} sec")


Original file containing both:

#!/usr/bin/python3

import timeit as it

def memoise(f)

[python-uk] Python Meetup Manchester?

[Michael]

Hi,


Anyone up for a Python meetup in Manchester? Say Wednesday 8th February, 7pm, 
Lass O'Gowrie [1]? (Unless anyone has a better suggestion? :-)

[1] http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/11/1144/Lass_OGowrie/Manchester

If so, I'll put up a page where people can sign up (if they want :-).

Regards,


Michael.
--
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Re: [python-uk] Python Meetup Manchester?

[Michael]

Just realised I accidentally stripped python-uk from the response list 
here :-) Doh! Don't I feel silly ! :-)

On Wednesday 18 January 2006 21:58, you wrote:
> > Anyone up for a Python meetup in Manchester? Say Wednesday 8th
> > February, 7pm, Lass O'Gowrie [1]? (Unless anyone has a better
> > suggestion? :-)
> >
> > [1]
> > http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/11/1144/Lass_OGowrie/Manchester
> >
> > If so, I'll put up a page where people can sign up (if they want :-).
>
> Yes please :-)
>
> It's in my diary

Cool :-)

I've put a page up here for people to sign up (if they want), and add
comments regarding things they'd like to see or might bring with them.
link::
   http://yeoldeclue.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.cgi?rm=viewpost&postid=1137623603
 
See you there!


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] Turbogears

[Michael]

On Tuesday 24 January 2006 19:21, Simon Faulkner wrote:
> > Yep, and it's pretty good too.  Why do you ask?
>
> I often need to write small, simple databases and have friends 'foaming'
> about RoR.
>
> If TurboGears can give me pretty much what RoR would but will also allow
> me to use my (pathetic) Python skills then I will invest some time
> having a go...

>From what I hear/see they're pretty close. I've not used either, but having 
looked at both they cover the same problem space. 

TurboGears is also really a distribution of a bunch of (generally mature) 
Useful Stuff (tm) that I've seen lots of people rave about for some time 
(CherryPy for example).



Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] Turbogears

[Michael]

On Tuesday 24 January 2006 19:21, Simon Faulkner wrote:
> > > Yep, and it's pretty good too.  Why do you ask?
> >
> > I often need to write small, simple databases and have friends 'foaming'
> > about RoR.
> >
> > If TurboGears can give me pretty much what RoR would but will also allow
> > me to use my (pathetic) Python skills then I will invest some time
> > having a go...

I just gave it a go. From download to completing the 20 minute wiki, the 
timestamps on my filesystem say 30 minutes - I guess I read/type slow ;-)

FWIW, I went to the RoR talk at Euro OSCON, and as far as I can tell (having 
now done the tutorial), they really are more or less equivalent. 

I'd definitely give it a go if I were you. I might have a bit more of a play 
between now and the Python Meetup Manchester[1] (hint, hint ;-) .

[1] http://yeoldeclue.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.cgi?rm=viewpost&postid=1137623603

(I'm half tempted to ditch using the port of cgi_app that I use on a handful 
of projects now as a result of this, *IF* it'll work on sourceforge...)

Regards,


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] TEST

[Michael]

On Saturday 01 April 2006 06:40, Lani Stokes wrote:
> TEST

import unittest
import TEST
class SmokeTests(unittest.TestCase):
def test_SmokeTest(self):
"""__init__ - Called with no arguments succeeds"""
T = TEST.TEST()

if __name__=="__main__":
unittest.main()


Michael.
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[python-uk] Manchester 2.0 Beta? Re: London 2.0 rc5

[Michael]

Hi!


It's been a few months since the last Northern Python Meetup, if anyone's up 
for a repeat, how about having Manchester 2.1 Beta ? :-) Having it the same 
day as the London meet would be cool, but possibly too short notice?

If so, how about having it as the same openness as London - that is having it 
dynamic languages rather than just Python? (Personally I think that'd be a 
good idea) If so, was the Lass a good idea, or does anyone have a better 
idea? Would people prefer a different venue?


Michael.

On Monday 24 April 2006 14:14, Simon Brunning wrote:
> Sam Newman has organised London 2.0 rc5 for the evening of May the 3rd
> at The Olde Bank Of England, 194 Fleet Street,  London EC4A 2LT. The
> demos at rc4 were 100% Python related, so the PSUs cunning plan to
> infiltrate and take over these events is clearly running to schedule.
>
> BTW, if you are using Google Calendar
> (<http://www.google.com/calendar/>), I've set up a public Calendar
> called "London Python", into which I'll put any London based Python
> related events I come across. If you are not using Google Calendar
> yet, you can find an RSS feed for it at
> <http://www.google.com/calendar/feeds/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>ndar.google.com/public/basic>. If you are not using Google Calendar *or* an
> RSS reader yet, well, you are probably too 20th century to be interested in
> any of the events in any case. ;-)
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Simon B,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/
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Re: [python-uk] Manchester 2.0 Beta? Re: London 2.0 rc5

[Michael]

On Tuesday 25 April 2006 21:01, Michael Hudson wrote:
...
> What about Bristol?  Not that I'm there very often at the moment, I'm
> more likely to make a London meet en route to an airport...

For me, London would be closer (in terms of trains) than Bristol. (Indeed 
amsterdam would be quicker to get to, but I'm not suggesting that ;-)


Michael.
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[python-uk] Kamaelia 0.5.0 Released :-)

[Michael]

Hi,



Since there's the possibility I might be able to make the python meetup in 
London, I'd just like to note here as well that we've just released Kamaelia 
0.5.0.

It's majorly enhanced by work by google summer of code students, and also 
marks the point at which we hit overall coverage of the core areas I would 
expect to see in version 1.0 (tcp/udp/multicast servers/clients, bit torrent 
integration, Open GL, Pygame, dirac, audio capture/playback, speex 
encode/decode, comprehensive DVB-T (freeview) support, efficient shell outs, 
zero copy transfer etc, and a proper graphical composition tool - for 
graphlines not just pipelines).

Ryan (one of the SoC students) has written a nice article about this release
on his blog here:
http://rjlsoc.blogspot.com/2006/09/kamaelia-050-released.html

Which also includes pictures :-)

Full release notes here: http://tinyurl.com/nf5gk

Recommended download here: http://tinyurl.com/lfhxq
(includes all the non-kamaelia dependencies)

For those that don't know what Kamaelia is, it's a way of making it trivial
to mix and match between lots of different systems, join them together using
standard interfaces (inboxes/outboxes), and have the entire system naturally
be concurrent, in the same way unix pipelines are, but with much more
flexibility, with a focus on applications useful for delivery of BBC
content, and making it possible for the BBC to work smarter. (The system
is not just limited to that though as you'll see from above!)

Also Kamaelia will be featured in next month's Linux Format, released
later in the month, focussing on our collaborative whiteboarding tool
where whiteboards can be daisy chained together (they're both servers
and clients) allowing you to chat (since it forwards audio as well) and
scribble with colleagues located elsewhere.


Michael.
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[python-uk] Multicore Kamaelia

[Michael]

Hi!


I've added some experimental multicore work in Kamaelia's /Sketches area
today. It allows you to take the following code:

Pipeline(
Textbox(position=(20, 340),
 text_height=36,
 screen_width=900,
 screen_height=400,
 background_color=(130,0,70),
 text_color=(255,255,255)),
TextDisplayer(position=(20, 90),
text_height=36,
screen_width=400,
screen_height=540,
background_color=(130,0,70),
text_color=(255,255,255))
)

... and make it run multicore as follows:

ProcessPipeline(
Textbox(position=(20, 340),
 text_height=36,
 screen_width=900,
 screen_height=400,
 background_color=(130,0,70),
 text_color=(255,255,255)),
TextDisplayer(position=(20, 90),
text_height=36,
screen_width=400,
screen_height=540,
background_color=(130,0,70),
text_color=(255,255,255))
)

The "proof" that this works multicore is the fact these are both pygame 
components and hence would not open two windows unless it was
multi-process. I've written up more about this here:

   http://yeoldeclue.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.cgi?rm=viewpost&nodeid=1205626569

To work this uses Paul Boddie's pprocess module, LikeFile written by a GSOC
student last year, and the components above were also from GSOC. 

Code in subversion is here for the curious:
https://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/kamaelia/trunk/Sketches/MPS/pprocess/MultiPipeline.py

This wouldn't've been as easy to write without using Paul's really nice code, 
so I'll just embarass him and say thank you for that here :-)


Michael
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Re: [python-uk] Looking for developers in Lahndahn Tahn

[Michael]

On Thursday 18 September 2008 15:09:02 David Walker wrote:
> PS No agencies, please.  We eat them for breakfast - they are our
> playthings.

You don't want breakfast and toys?

:-)

Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] [pyconuk] Correction: London Python Meetup, Wednesday, October the 8th

[Michael]

On Thursday 25 September 2008 17:14:29 Simon Brunning wrote:
> Sorry - that's *Wednesday* the 8th. I shouldn't be allowed out on my
> own, I really shouldn't.

That's the point of a meetup isn't it?

*ducks and runs*

:)

Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] Python Developers Wanted.

[Michael]

On Thursday 16 October 2008 01:44:52 Anand Kumria wrote:
>  'city company'.

Aka "a company about to go bust", if the news is anything to go by.


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] Code dojos

[Michael]

On Monday 31 August 2009 12:24:28 greg nwosu wrote:
> Does anyone know of any python code dojos being run in the london area, if
> there are none does anyone want to help me set one up?
>
> Greg



--  Forwarded Message  --

Subject: [python-uk] London Python Dojo - 17 September 2009
Date: Saturday 29 August 2009
From: Bruce Durling 
To: UK Python Users 

Announcing the London Python Dojo:

Sign up here:

http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/4391294/

The details:

6:30PM for a 7:30PM start of the Dojo

The proposed project will be creating a social graph using the twitter API.

Nearest Tubes:
Waterloo
Southwark

Address:
Fry-IT Limited
503 Enterprise House
1/2 Hatfields
London SE1 9PG
Telephone:
0207 0968800

Google Map:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1%2F2+Hatfields+London+SE1+9PG&sll=51.507954,-0.107825&sspn=0.007439,0.022724&ie=UTF8&ll=51.508235,-0.107825&spn=0.007439,0.022724&z=16&iwloc=A
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[python-uk] Pyserial on Raspberry Pi returning just "\x00" ie NULL characters

[Michael]

Hi,


Probably a little off topic, but posting here in the hope that someone
else has tried connecting a Rasp Pi to an arduino using the arduino's
built in usbserial device. (ie like you would with a "normal" linux
box).

Ignoring all the app details, if I have a piece of code that's like this:

import serial
ser = serial.Serial("/dev/ttyUSB0", 9600)
while True:
   print repr(ser.read())

Then on a normal linux box, I'm getting back values I'd expect. On the
raspberrypi, I'm simply getting back "\x00" characters.

In my actual code, I'm both sending and receiving data. The curious
oddity here is that I appear to be receiving the correct *number* of
characters, and appear to also be sending the right number (based on
the flashing of the RX light on the arduino).

However, whilst they're the right number of characters, the actual
characters, being NULLs, are clearly wrong.

I'm guessing that this is actually nothing to do with python and more
a driver issue on the Pi, but on the off chance it is a python issue
or something someone else here has seen before I thought it worth
posting and asking.

If anyone's interested, the context of this is using and RFID tag
reader (plugged into the Pi - which I have working to cause motors to
spin on another device. The reason for the arduino here rather than
faffing with the Pi's pins is a) it'd be faff with the Pi's pins b) I
have an arduino with built in servo control circuits - essentially an
Arduino duemilanove clone with a motor shield combined c) I had all
the bits and really didn't expect serial connection to/from the Pi to
be where I'd get issues!

Any suggestions (good or bad :), comments or sympathy welcome :-)

baffled-of-the-north,


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] Pyserial on Raspberry Pi returning just "\x00" ie NULL characters

[Michael]

On 2 July 2012 14:15, Stephen Emslie  wrote:
> I've found strace to be a really valuable tool in debugging arduino serial
> communication. Not sure what your problem is, but perhaps inspecting the
> serial connection like this could help:
>
> strace -e trace=read,open,write -p 
>
> That should print out all read, write, and open calls from your process to
> the operating system, which includes reads and writes on the connection to
> arduino.

Excellent point - I'd forgotten about strace for some reason. Would
make an awful lot
of sense here.

On 2 July 2012 14:06, John Pinner  wrote:
> There are known problems with the Pi USB :
>
> * Some possible driver issues (to do with mixed high- and low-speed
> devices on the same hub.

This one I wasn't aware of. I might shift things about to see if that
changes things.

> * Power capacity.

Yep, I'm aware of the power issues - which to be fair I think are
perfectly reasonable.

> For example, I have a rather nice IBM USB keyboard, if I use that at
> the same time as a USB wifi dongle, the wifi stops working. A cheapo
> Kensington keyboard works fine.
>
> Try:
>
> * Checking for a healthy 4.75 - 5.25 volts between TP1 and TP2 on the Pi.
> * Installing an updated Pi kernel. Dom has just done a beta Wheezy
> image, which he thinks may have fixed the USB driver problem, but he
> wants feedback:
>
> http://files.velocix.com/c1410/images/debian/7/2012-06-18-wheezy-beta.zip
>
> * Using a decent quality *powered* USB hub (>=2.0 amps)

The actual setup I have is:

Dedicated power supply -> Pi
.. connected to a 4 port powered hub (with decent power supply).
.. with the arduino plugged into that, with it's own 9V 1.5A power supply.

So I'm pretty sure power isn't the issue (but can't rule it out).

I wasn't aware of the more recent debian image. I'll try that before hunting
around in strace output - much appreciated!


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] LIVE Python Developer Vacancies

[Michael]

On 30 November 2012 10:12, Matt Hamilton  wrote:
>
>
> On 30 Nov 2012, at 09:32, Adam Elliott wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have various LIVE Python Developer vacancies!
>
> Good move. I've found dead Python developers to be a bit useless.


They wouldn't be dead, they'd be merely resting. Pining even.


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Michael]

On 3 January 2013 17:13, Michael Foord  wrote:

>
> On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens 
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 04:41:27PM +, Antonio Cavallo wrote:
> >> like this?
> >>
> >> http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=50e5b456e4b04de5024a
> >
> > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard
> > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email".
>
> However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness of your
> desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not any notion of
> correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have expressed an opinion,
> either in this thread or the poll, prefer reply-to-list
>

+1


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Michael]

On 3 January 2013 17:29, Jon Ribbens  wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 05:13:57PM +, Michael Foord wrote:
> > On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens  
> > wrote:
> > > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard
> > > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email".
> >
> > However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness
> > of your desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not
> > any notion of correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have
> > expressed an opinion, either in this thread or the poll, prefer
> > reply-to-list.
> >
> > FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very*
> > regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender
> > and not to the list. This is regularly a (mild) impediment to
> > communication. I very rarely see the opposite (public replies that
> > were meant to be private). So the cure is largely worse than the
> > disease.
>
> You are wrong. HTH.

No, he's not - he's absolutely correct when he says the mailing list
exists to serve its users - not any notion of correctness.


Michael. (noting it's clearly bike shed season)
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Michael]

On 3 January 2013 22:41, Jon Ribbens  wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 07:41:31PM +0000, Michael wrote:
>> On 3 January 2013 17:29, Jon Ribbens  wrote:
>> > On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 05:13:57PM +, Michael Foord wrote:
>> > > On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens  
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard
>> > > > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email".
>> > >
>> > > However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness
>> > > of your desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not
>> > > any notion of correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have
>> > > expressed an opinion, either in this thread or the poll, prefer
>> > > reply-to-list.
>> > >
>> > > FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very*
>> > > regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender
>> > > and not to the list. This is regularly a (mild) impediment to
>> > > communication. I very rarely see the opposite (public replies that
>> > > were meant to be private). So the cure is largely worse than the
>> > > disease.
>> >
>> > You are wrong. HTH.
>>
>> No, he's not - he's absolutely correct when he says the mailing list
>> exists to serve its users - not any notion of correctness.
>
> If that was the only thing he'd said I wouldn't've said he was wrong.

Since you're not arguing that he's wrong about the majority of list
posters (here) preferring reply to list, and that the mailing list
exists to serve them, and that any arbitrary notion of correctness
other than that isn't relevant, are you saying that Michael's
perception of what he sees is incorrect?  (cf "I rarely see" and "I
very rarely see")

Or is he wrong about your apparent obstinate belief in your desires ?
(I personally would have said petulant)


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Michael]

On 3 January 2013 23:24, Daniele Procida  wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Michael  wrote:
>
>>Or is he wrong about your apparent obstinate belief in your desires ?
>>(I personally would have said petulant)
>
> That's uncalled-for.
>
> It would be gauche to end up trading insults over reply-to settings, and we 
> don't want to be gauche, do we?

Very true. I didn't view it or intend it that way, but can see how it
could be. Maybe I've just seen this argument too many times.


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] Python Trademark at Risk in Europe

[Michael]

In order to get support at work regarding this, I decided to do some
digging, and it turns out, looking at archive.org, that the company in
question or at least the domain in question - has been used to mean "python
internet" or "python internet services" off and on since 1998.

It's also been called cheapnet, and various other things in its early days
by the looks of things.

The blog description is slightly inaccurate in saying that the company in
question have only just started using the name - they appear to have used
the name off and on for 15 years.

This doesn't mean to say that the trademark application has merit - it
doesn't - I first did a python tutorial around 15 years ago, and there were
published books etc at the time, but it doesn't help to say "they've just
started using this", when that's not really quite the case.

The question I'd personally have (which is unclear from the domain name) is
whether this is the same company today (through acquisition or merger) as
the company from 1998?

(I still think the trademark application hasn't got any merit, but given
the fact they came back  to use the same name over a period of years, I can
see what probably led them to think (incorrectly) they could/should try to
get it)



Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] Python Trademark at Risk in Europe

[Michael]

Hi Tim,


On 15 February 2013 11:09, Tim Golden  wrote:
>
> In case that's useful info, Michael, would you mind forwarding it
> back to psf-tradema...@python.org ? As far as I can tell you're only
> sending to python-uk.

Will do. As you'd expect/suspect I fully support the PSF's stance on this, but I
just think in terms of discussions where the benefit of the doubt will
be given to
both sides, a little more accuracy would go a long way.

After all, if someone has been using a name off and on, as well as making their
claim more tenuous (since even with a registered mark you have to defend use),
it also suggests that they did not see utility in the name for much of that time
period -- which could be viewed as implying that if you said "python"
people would
not think of them. (and of course most people have never heard of them
until now!)


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] Suggestions / best practices for deployment

[Michael]

While we're on topic - what would people say is best practice for testing
of a web API in a way that slots cleanly into a CI setup? Lots of different
options out there, hence the q. (I realise this is also a bit like saying
how long is a piece of string)


Michael.


On 15 May 2013 10:57, Harry Percival  wrote:

> Dear UK Python chums,
>
> some of you probably know I'm writing a book about TDD for O'Reilly.  I'm
> looking for some help with the (first) chapter on deployment.
>
> http://www.obeythetestinggoat.com/what-to-say-about-deployment.html
>
> What do you use for deployment?  Do you have any kind of automated
> scripts? How do you manage virtualenvs, the database, apache/uwsgi
> config... What do you think might work as a sort of "best practice lite"
> for a simple site for beginners?  (django, sqlite database, static files)
>
> --
> --
> Harry J.W. Percival
> --
> Twitter: @hjwp
> Mobile:  +44 (0) 78877 02511
> Skype: harry.percival
>
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Re: [python-uk] Reading list

[Michael]

Hi,


When I came across python I'd been coding for a long time in a variety of
languages. Because Learning Perl had been a good book for learning perl, I
bought Learning Python. Hated it. Put me off python for years.

Came back to learn it again, and read through "How to think like a computer
scientist using python". It was brief enough to skip through rapidly in
contexts I already understood and go from a standing start in python to
something useful in a couple of days. I've recommended it to others since.

Beyond that Practical Python by Magnus Lie Hetland is a good book, and is
divided into two parts that are essentially  "learn the language" and "see
it in use in projects". The second part I feel is more useful to
experienced developers, even though the projects are of course by the
nature of book form toys. I don't know what the revamped version (Beginning
Python) by the same author is like.

I don't use either any more unsurprisingly!


Michael.

On 26 June 2013 10:48,  wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm looking for an introductory book in python: do you have any suggestion?
>
> I'm shortlisting few so far:
>
> Python 2.6 Text Processing: Beginners Guide (Jeff McNeil):
> https://www.packtpub.com/**python-2-6-text-processing-**
> beginners-guide/book<https://www.packtpub.com/python-2-6-text-processing-beginners-guide/book>
>
> Head First Python (Paul Barry):
> 
> http://shop.oreilly.com/**product/0636920003434.do<http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920003434.do>
>
> The Quick Python Book (Naomi R. Ceder):
> http://www.manning.com/ceder/
>
> Volent Python (TJ O'Connor):
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/**Violent-Python-TJ-OConnor/dp/**
> 1597499579/ref=sr_1_10?ie=**UTF8&qid=1372239422&sr=8-10&**keywords=python<http://www.amazon.co.uk/Violent-Python-TJ-OConnor/dp/1597499579/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1372239422&sr=8-10&keywords=python>
>
> Programming Python (Mark Lutz):
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/**Programming-Python-Mark-Lutz/**
> dp/0596158106/ref=sr_1_8?ie=**UTF8&qid=1372239456&sr=8-8&**keywords=python<http://www.amazon.co.uk/Programming-Python-Mark-Lutz/dp/0596158106/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1372239456&sr=8-8&keywords=python>
>
> Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner (Mike Dawson):
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/**Python-Programming-Absolute-**
> Beginner-Dawson/dp/1435455002/**ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&**
> qid=1372239604&sr=1-1&**keywords=python<http://www.amazon.co.uk/Python-Programming-Absolute-Beginner-Dawson/dp/1435455002/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372239604&sr=1-1&keywords=python>
>
>
> All they seem reasonable reading for starters, but I wonder if there's
> something else around that can be effective in bringing skilled developers
> (C/C++) into the python side.
>
> Thanks
> __**_
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> python-uk@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-uk<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk>
>
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Re: [python-uk] Moar jobs at Made.com, againer!

[Michael]

> (See what I did there? That was just off the cuff. I can do lots more
like that.)

Now make it spin in 3D, and explode into a kaleidoscope of flickering sofas.
(Go on, you know you want to)

:)

Michael.
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[python-uk] Wanna help? BBC Make It Digital 2015 - Partnerships (kids/coding related)

[Michael]

  [ Apologies if you receive this more than once. I'm doing

this in part because I'm hoping people find it interesting,

but mainly because I'm hoping it'll make we do better.  ]

Hi,


Hope everyone's well - long time no see.

tl;dr - we're building something to do with kids/coding, looking for
partners to express interest in working with us so we can share what we're
doing. I'm posting here because I'm hoping it's of interest.


There is a rather opaque post here  ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/aboutthebbc/posts/BBC-Learning-calls-for-expression-of-interest-from-partners-for-Make-It-Digital-initiative

 ... about something I'm involved with. I don't want to repost the whole
thing, but that means the following is a little out of context, but will
hopefully go some way to explain why I'm forwarding this here:

  In 2015, the BBC's Make it Digital initiative will shine a light
  on the world of digital creativity and coding -- in 2015 we want
  to capture the spirit of what we did with the BBC Micro, but
  this time for the digital age.

  ... we can only deliver at scale through working in partnership.
   This is why BBC Learning is now inviting expressions of interest

  from individual companies, consortia and organisations.

  As part of Make it Digital, we'd like to create a hands-on
  learning experience that allows any level of young coder from
  absolute beginner to advanced maker to get involved.

Because I'm involved with it - in building tech for it - I can't say much
beyond that post due to the fact we're required to share the same
information with everyone simultaneously (for obvious reasons I hope)

However, the reason I'm posting it here is because I'm hoping that it's of
interest, either to you who's reading, to someone you know, or an
organisation you work for/with. Or simply have contacts you feel should be
involved with this.

The way to get involved - which doesn't require a commitment at this stage -
is to simply visit the link above, take a look at the process we're
following (which the BBC has to follow), and pop an email to the address on
that page if you'd like to express interest.

If anyone has any questions, please not while I might/might not be able to
answer them here and now, as soon as I can answer them I will :-)

One question that has arisen though so far is "it looks like you're doing
something like X, I/my company/my contact do something like Y, is that of
interest?" please assume that it IS of interest :-)

Regards,


Michael.
--
| Michael Sparks, Senior Research Engineer
| BBC R&D / BBC Learning, MediaCityUK, Salford, M50 2LH
| michael.spa...@bbc.co.uk, http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/
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Re: [python-uk] Job Ad: Senior Python Engineers -Skimlinks - London

[Michael]

Accidental replies are the spice of life.

The only downside of the reply-to header is the fact that people randomly
complain about it every other year or two, resulting in 20 arguments in
favour, 20 arguments against, then a discussion about how voting for or
against it might be a good idea, and in the majority of cases most people
going "meh, can't be bothered", and a minority deciding that voting is a
good idea, and then sometimes they remove it but most often they don't.

On the upside, they poke a bit of life into things, resulting in the
original poster going "oh, why did I bother? They're just talking about
reply-to rather than our fussball table!"

:-D


Michael.

On 4 February 2015 at 14:16, Andy Robinson  wrote:

> I'm one of the list admins.  There are a couple of others.  Happy to
> make a change if a significant majority feel that way.
>
> However, sometimes accidental replies are the only thing keeping the
> list alive ;-)
>
> On 4 February 2015 at 14:12, Sven Marnach  wrote:
> > Maybe we could just get rid of the pointless "Reply-To" header?  It can
> be
> > disabled by a list admin on the Mailman admin page.
> >
> > I get the impression that at least one person per month falls victim to
> it.
> > The reverse, people accidentally answering just to the sender instead of
> the
> > whole list, seems better than people accidentally sending private emails
> to
> > everyone.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Sven
> >
> > ___
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> > python-uk@python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Andy Robinson
> Managing Director
> ReportLab Europe Ltd.
> Thornton House, Thornton Road, Wimbledon, London SW19 4NG, UK
> Tel +44-20-8405-6420
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Re: [python-uk] Job Ad: Senior Python Engineers -Skimlinks - London

[Michael]

But surely the bikeshed should be blue!

Michael

On 4 February 2015 at 15:38, Peter Inglesby 
wrote:

> It seems like several of the arguments for keeping the current behaviour
> are that it's amusing when somebody gets it wrong.  As somebody who once
> accidentally reply-alled criticism of my supervisor to my entire department
> at university, I'm not sure that it always is amusing, and so I'm in favour
> of changing the behaviour.
>
> On 4 February 2015 at 15:26, Michael  wrote:
>
>> Accidental replies are the spice of life.
>>
>> The only downside of the reply-to header is the fact that people randomly
>> complain about it every other year or two, resulting in 20 arguments in
>> favour, 20 arguments against, then a discussion about how voting for or
>> against it might be a good idea, and in the majority of cases most people
>> going "meh, can't be bothered", and a minority deciding that voting is a
>> good idea, and then sometimes they remove it but most often they don't.
>>
>> On the upside, they poke a bit of life into things, resulting in the
>> original poster going "oh, why did I bother? They're just talking about
>> reply-to rather than our fussball table!"
>>
>> :-D
>>
>>
>> Michael.
>>
>> On 4 February 2015 at 14:16, Andy Robinson  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm one of the list admins.  There are a couple of others.  Happy to
>>> make a change if a significant majority feel that way.
>>>
>>> However, sometimes accidental replies are the only thing keeping the
>>> list alive ;-)
>>>
>>> On 4 February 2015 at 14:12, Sven Marnach  wrote:
>>> > Maybe we could just get rid of the pointless "Reply-To" header?  It
>>> can be
>>> > disabled by a list admin on the Mailman admin page.
>>> >
>>> > I get the impression that at least one person per month falls victim
>>> to it.
>>> > The reverse, people accidentally answering just to the sender instead
>>> of the
>>> > whole list, seems better than people accidentally sending private
>>> emails to
>>> > everyone.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Sven
>>> >
>>> > ___
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>>> > python-uk@python.org
>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andy Robinson
>>> Managing Director
>>> ReportLab Europe Ltd.
>>> Thornton House, Thornton Road, Wimbledon, London SW19 4NG, UK
>>> Tel +44-20-8405-6420
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>>
>>
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>
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[python-uk] John

[Michael]

In respect of John, I'll 'light' a throwing (LED taped to a coin battery).
Seems more appropriate than a candle.

.

Bye John.

Michael
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[python-uk] Microbit

[Michael]

Hi,


Just thought it worth mentioning this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31834927

>From the article:

The BBC will be giving away mini-computers to 11-year-olds across the
country as part of its push to make the UK more digital.

One million Micro Bits - a stripped-down computer similar to a Raspberry Pi
- will be given to all pupils starting secondary school in the autumn term.

The BBC is also launching a season of coding-based programmes and
activities.
Just thought it worth mentioning that while that pictures the prototype, it
uses an awful lot of python in the software stack.

:-)

Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] Microbit

[Michael]

Since it's in photos, it's safe to say that the current _prototype product_
uses an Atmel 32U4, which doesn't have anywhere enough memory to run
micropython. (So in order to run python on it via the gcc-avr tool chain,
you can probably infer a number of things I had to do, involving ply)

The actual final device wil be using a different chip, so we'll see on that
front.

The micropython device is cool though :-)

As I get the go ahead to release stuff, I will do so. Meanwhile, the PSF
are an official partner, so I'll be supporting Nick.


Michael.

On 13 March 2015 at 10:44, Antonio Cavallo  wrote:

>
> > Getting hold of MicroBits is at the top of my ToDo list with this
> > project. I'll let you know how I get on.
>
> Possibly Micropython.org..
>
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Re: [python-uk] DJUGL - Django User Group London: this evening (April 22th) at 19:00 c/o WayraUK

[Michael]

I don't know about others, but unless you check twitter all the time, then
a lot of announcements tend to disappear into the ether. (Much as I like
twitter)

Regional announcements would be nice to see more on this list too. (I often
can't make them due to family/work commitments, but still, I can hope :-)

Regards,


Michael.

On 22 April 2015 at 11:48, a.gra...@gmail.com  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I tweeted it a couple of times and even the official DJUGL account
> tweeted about it, but we all forgot to post here.
>
> I'm sorry :(
>
> On 22 April 2015 at 11:44, Nicholas H.Tollervey  wrote:
> > On 22/04/15 11:40, Tom Viner wrote:
> >> Joint twitter / this-listserv announcements would be appreciated by me
> >> for one.
> >>
> >
> > Seconded... if we don't know it's happening... etc...
> >
> > N.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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>
>
> --
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Re: [python-uk] Congratulations Carrie Anne and Naomi

[Michael]

Congratulations to both of you!


Michael.
--
@sparks_rd / michael.spa...@bbc.co.uk


On 2 June 2015 at 08:23, Nicholas H.Tollervey  wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> In case you've not heard, two UK based Pythonistas have been elected as
> directors of the Python Software Foundation board.
>
> Congratulations to and celebrations for Naomi Ceder and Carrie Anne
> Philbin.
>
> It's also rather wonderful that 7 of the 12 directors are women.
>
> Just thought people would want to know.
>
> N.
>
>
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Re: [python-uk] Nicholas Tollervey winner of PSF Community Service Award

[Michael]

Congratulations Nick!

Michael.

On 24 June 2015 at 14:31, Naomi Ceder  wrote:

> As a member of the PSF board of directors it gives me great pleasure to
> report that our own Nicholas Tollervey has been awarded the PSF's Community
> Service Award for Q2, 2015 in recognition of his work in promoting Python
> in education in the UK.
>
> Please join me in congratulating Nicholas for this recognition of all that
> he has been doing for our community.
>
> Look for a more formal announcement on the PSF blog in the coming days.
>
> (Getting to make this announcement is definitely my favourite thing about
> being a director so far :-) )
>
> Cheers,
> Naomi Ceder
> --
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> https://plus.google.com/u/0/111396744045017339164/about
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Re: [python-uk] python-uk Digest, Vol 144, Issue 5

[Michael]

While I'm not currently looking for anything, in London, personally I think
given there are around 2 or 3 such postings a year on this list (if that),
imposing "rules" as such is a little odd. As *suggestions* though, IMO both
comments make sense.

Starting a new thread makes sense though - rather than just replying to the
list digest with an unchanged subject - since it's less likely to be read.

Must admit personally, when I see these things I think - location? (if down
south, remote working?) what is it? who is it? does it pay the bills?


(I'll be over here painting the bike shed green)


Michael.
--
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On 2 September 2015 at 23:12, Stestagg  wrote:

> The rule we use for pythonjobs.github.io is that the advert has to name
> the actual company the ad is for(not just an agency/broker). This was
> something that Sal Fadhley suggested, IIRC.
>
> This allows posts by agents, but tends to lead to more useful/informative
> ads, and avoids the vague teasers that are often seen as spam.
>
> I suggest we adopt the same rule on this list, on top of Richard's comments
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve
>
>
> On Wed, 2 Sep 2015 at 19:48 Richard Barran 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Sophie,
>>
>> A quick hint: job ads are welcome here, but only if correctly written and
>> targeted. A lot of people here *hate* recruiters (with reason - I myself
>> have only ever met 2 or 3 that I get on with), hate seeing this list being
>> used for spam, and, well… next time, please start a new discussion thread
>> with its own title, rather than highjacking another thread ;-)
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> On 2 Sep 2015, at 18:44, Sophie Hendley 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> I'm helping to build a new team for a very exciting startup. It's a
>> product company founded by some of the leading technical and business
>> people from Spotify, Google and Facebook.
>>
>> I'm looking for a Senior Developer to work in the platform development
>> working on a Micro-Services Architecture using Python in a TDD environment
>>
>> It's London's biggest technology investment and they're building their
>> platform from scratch.
>>
>> The salary is anywhere up to £85,000 there are also share options and
>> private healthcare on top of this along with free food and drinks
>>
>> Let me know if you're interested and we can have a chat.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Sophie
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 11:00 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Send python-uk mailing list submissions to
>>> python-uk@python.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> python-uk-requ...@python.org
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> python-uk-ow...@python.org
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of python-uk digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>1. London Python Code Dojo (Season 7, Episode 1) (Alistair Broomhead)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:39:28 +
>>> From: Alistair Broomhead 
>>> To: UK Python Users 
>>> Subject: [python-uk] London Python Code Dojo (Season 7, Episode 1)
>>> Message-ID:
>>> >> pirac3py...@mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Hi Folks,
>>>
>>> It's that time again!
>>>
>>> The next dojo will be happening at 6:30 pm on Thursday the 3rd of
>>> September at the Skimlinks offices:
>>>
>>> Skimlinks
>>> 2nd Floor
>>> 52 Bevendon St
>>> N1 6BL London
>>> United Kingdom
>>>
>>> (Google maps:
>>>
>>> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Skimlinks/@51.5294074,-0.0870779,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xab5870ee45e5a552
>>> )
>>>
>>> Full details and tickets can be booked here:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/london-python-code-dojo-season-7-episode-1-tickets-18313022744
>>>
>>> See you at the dojo!
>>>
>>> Al.
>>> -- next part --
>>> An HTM

Re: [python-uk] Open Sourcing MicroPython on the BBC micro:bit

[Michael]

Hi,


On 20 October 2015 at 11:11, Jurgis Pralgauskis <
jurgis.pralgaus...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> an alternative to TouchDevelop could be Blockly
> <https://developers.google.com/blockly/>, as it currently has translation
> to Python,
> example
> https://blockly-demo.appspot.com/static/demos/code/index.html#982hb3
>
> (it has various adaptations, for example - turtle graphics
> https://trinket.io/blocks )
>
>
While touch develop is also open source, there *is* a "blocks" interface in
the micro:bit platform - which under the hood is blockly. The reason for
both is because some schools use one, other schools use the other, etc.

(The prototype micro:bit system used in schools trials in January this year
used blockly as the front end, and the python generation interface, and it
looks like - from the source - that this has been used as the basis for the
blocks interface.)

That said, having worked with blockly I personally think it's great, and
provides the potential for a "graphical python" interface. (ie same
semantic model, generates text and converts from text back to blockly)

Integrating blockly with skulpt or brython seems a relatively simple task
for anyone wanting to play.

Anyway, the great thing about the micro-python implementation is that it
avoids the need for all the stuff I needed to do for the prototype, and
allows off-line use by definition :-)

I also (still) think it's absolutely astonishing that Damien managed to
port python to the micro:bit - it's an absolutely tiny device - just 16K
RAM, so getting this much python in such little runtime space is an amazing
feat :-)

Regards,


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] URGENT: Volunteers for teacher collaboration please... :-)

[Michael]

Nick,


Please put me down for Lancaster and Manchester.

BTW, did you mean for Manchester & Southampton to be on the same day?

Manchester: 23rd March
Southampton: 23rd March


Michael

On 17 February 2016 at 08:30, Nicholas H.Tollervey  wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> I realise I must sound like a stuck record about this sort of thing -
> please accept my sincere apologies.
>
> TL;DR: I need volunteers from around the country to support a twilight
> meetup of teachers happening in various parts of the UK. It's not
> difficult and likely to be a lot of fun and will only take a few hours
> of your time in the early evening of a single day. I may be able to
> cover travel expenses. Please get in touch. More detail below...
>
> Computing at School (see: http://www.computingatschool.org.uk/), a grass
> roots movement of computing teachers in the UK would like to run a
> series of training courses for "Master Teachers" in MicroPython on the
> BBC micro:bit during March. These teachers would go on to act as the
> seed / catalyst for other teachers who require Python training during a
> series of training events over the summer. Put simply, this is an
> exercise in Python evangelism for teachers.
>
> Master teachers are those who have demonstrated a combination of deep
> subject knowledge and teaching skill. Put simply, they're the most
> senior teachers you can get. They're also the leaders in the field and
> what they say or do influences many hundreds of their colleagues.
>
> The idea is for the master teachers to get together with Python
> developers (that'd be *you*) for a few hours to work through MicroPython
> related educational resources. These events would happen at university
> based hubs around the country. As a Python developer you'll *get a BBC
> micro:bit* and be expected to offer advice, answer questions and
> demonstrate Python as needed. Honestly, it's not an onerous task and
> will only last a few hours in a "twilight" session (i.e. after work).
>
> The locations and proposed dates are as follows:
>
> London: 25th February
> Birmingham: 9th March
> Nottingham: 15th March
> Lancaster: 16th March
> Newcastle: 17th March
> Hertfordshire: 21st March
> Manchester: 23rd March
> Southampton: 23rd March
>
> It's easy for UK Python to be very London-centric. This is an
> opportunity for Pythonistas throughout the UK to step up and get involved.
>
> Why should you volunteer a few hours of your time to help teachers? Need
> you ask? Your help and influence will ultimately contribute to the
> education of the next generation of programmers - your future
> colleagues. It's a way to give back to the community by fostering the
> next generation of Pythonistas with the help of the CAS Master Teachers.
> It's also, from a moral point of view, simply a selfless and
> unambiguously good thing to do.
>
> If you're thinking "oh, they won't want me", then YOU ARE EXACTLY THE
> PERSON WE NEED! Your experience, perspective and knowledge is invaluable
> and teachers need to hear from you. Rest assured, this will not be a
> difficult or high-pressure activity. In fact, it's likely to be a lot of
> fun.
>
> Remember that awesome person who mentored you and/or gave you a step up?
> Now's your chance to be that person for a group of master teachers.
>
> If this is of interest to you, please get in touch ASAP and I can start
> to coordinate things with CAS.
>
> I'm going to put in a grant request to the PSF to see if we can cover
> travel costs for developers. But there's no guarantee this will come about.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> N.
>
>
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Re: [python-uk] Coding "Bootcamps"

[Michael]

On 18 May 2016 at 16:11, Andy Robinson  wrote:

> On 18 May 2016 at 15:52, Zeth  wrote:
> > My degrees are in econometrics and theology, and I also somehow found
> > myself making a living from writing code. I know theology is much more
> > practical than philosophy but I am sure the same logic applies*
>
> There was a great Tim Ferriss podcast where he interviewed Alain de
> Boton about what philosophy is and whether it's useful.  From memory,
> Alain said something like  "If you can ONLY do it in a university and
> there are no jobs in the outside world, that's a sign that your
> profession has gone off the rails somewhere...".
>

Of course, HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy does have an excellent piece on
the employment rights, wherefores protecting philosophers' jobs, as
described by the Philosophers' workers union.


Michael
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[python-uk] PyConUK Saturday supper

[michael]

Some of us are planning to dine here after the lightning talks. If you want to join in, let me know by 2pm and I will try to book. If you drcide later, come anyway: it doesn't matter if we're on more than one table. I'll hang around outside the conference entrance for 5 min after the lightning talks. 
Madeira Restaurant  1 Guildford Crescent Cardiff CF102H
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Re: [python-uk] BBC micro:bit hardware released under open license

[Michael]

Carlos,


Which original design do you mean? The actual board distributed to a
million kids or the proto type microbit - proto:bit - that I did as the
original work that enabled the partnership etc? (ie the stuff I talked
about at Pycon UK last year - device, software stack, original DAL,
website, original python/c++ compiler etc - ie that we used to run the
schools trial with a 1000 devices across a dozen or so schools in the UK,
and informed the original specs/reference docs)

Regarding the former, I can't speak to that, but regarding the latter, I've
had commitment from people to approve release of it, and so on and so
forth, but it's now been over 12 months since I expected the go ahead for
that. I still expect that to be released (and I know its in good hands),
but I don't know when. (After all when you do work for an employer you
don't own the code or rights to release... )

It was always expected from all the partners (inc the BBC) that all
contributions would be open source, so I'd hope/expect the same for the
production hardware. (Though the reference implementation Nick's posted
about here would be a much better starting point IMO, for someone looking
to develop something new. )

Regarding the python to c++ compiler part of it, that should be a bit moot
by the time the proto:bit stack is released because I've been working
(slowly) on a better one. (It allows you to compile python code for devices
smaller than the ones Micropython will run on). (It's on pyxie -[a verbal
play on pycc - pyc-c ] pypi/github/my website)

I know that's a non-answer largely, at best slightly useful, but hopefully
useful,

Regarding a breakout board - proto pic have been tweeting about lots of
interesting breakout boards they've been building recently..

Regards,


Michael.


On 19 October 2016 at 16:34, Carlos Pereira Atencio 
wrote:

> As far as I understood there was still talks with the BBC to release the
> original design as well, is that still ongoing?
>
> Also, it would be quite awesome if there was also a OSH breakout board for
> the edge connector, it could serve as a base for projects to interface with
> microbit (like the Arduino shields, or raspberry pi hats). Who would be the
> best person to ask about that, Jonny?
>
> On 19 October 2016 at 15:26, Nicholas H.Tollervey  wrote:
>
>> Here: http://tech.microbit.org/
>>
>> Please upvote this on HN:
>>
>> https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=12744016
>>
>> Yay... you can't imagine how happy I am this is all finally out there...
>> everything is open and anyone can go make a micro:bit.
>>
>> N.
>>
>>
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Re: [python-uk] What trends should we watch Python during 2017..?

[Michael]

Hi,


Not a trend, but perhaps interesting to someone...

I'm still working on Pyxie[1] - a Python to C++ compiler - which targets
embedded systems. The idea is to allow python code to run on platforms too
small for micropython - for example devices with 8K Flash & 1K RAM :-)

[1] http://sparkslabs.com/pyxie/

There's **tons** still missing -- like many I'm time starved this is a
personal/home project -- but it can do enough now to control simple robots
with sensors. (Like the Dagu Playful Puppy)

Not really ready for people who want "proper" python, but enough for people
who want to fiddle with arduino type stuff without wanting to use C++ - I
would still call it pre-alpha though. Might hit alpha next year though :-)

(Grew out of the work I did on the microbit prototype we took into schools
before the partnership - but this now does more than the specialised/hacky
python/C++ compiler I did there. )

(Obvious questions like "how does this differ from shedskin, pypy or cython
etc" are more the target device restricts a lot of options you'd normallly
have. As a result it's not likely to end up as full fledged as those)

The stack is designed to allow for profiles for targetting different
platforms (to make testing easier), so it can spit out linux executables as
well as arduino hex files at the moment. (And obviously nicely printed C++
code :) )


Michael.

On 7 December 2016 at 11:24, Nicholas H.Tollervey  wrote:

> I've been asked to answer this. I've already replied but I wonder what
> the wider community think..?
>
> My response mentioned:
>
> * MicroPython bringing Python to embedded / IoT communities (and such
> communities into the Python world).
>
> * Python 2 / Python 3 (a perennial)
>
> * Python in education: with the micro:bit, Calliope (German micro:bit)
> and Adafruit all settling on MicroPython lots of kids and teachers will
> be learning Python next year. Also viz RPi - now the most successful
> computing in education project in history if measured in terms of
> devices shipped (and they promote Python too).
>
> * Python in data science. If the London PyData is anything to go by,
> things have only just started in this respect.
>
> Care to add anything else..? What about technical things to watch out
> for..? Will Larry complete his Gilectomey..?
>
> Season's greetings...
>
> N.
>
>
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Re: [python-uk] 2 Principle Engineer roles in London up to £95k

[Michael]

Andy,


Speaking as one of the few who didn't say anything - because the ad wasn't
relevant to me at the time - I personally see little reason to change the
policy of allowing job ads on here. A handful of people complain once or
twice a year, and the upshot is more posts and traffic as a result of the
complaint that all the job postings in the past 9/10 months.

There's so few ads posted, listing the dates:

Dec 6th - Sophie - uproar
Nov 14th - Adam - no comment by others
Nov 7th - Sophie - no comment by others
Nov 1st - Daniel - no comment by others
Oct 25th - Alastair - handful comments (criticising company's choice of
tech)
Oct 24th - Oisin - no comment by others
Sep 29th - A.Grandi - no comment by others
Sep 16th - Fabio - no comment by others
Sep 12th - Alastair - no comment by others
Sep 7th - Niamh - no comment by others
Sept 6th - Steve - no comment by others
Aug 31 - Ben - no comment by others
Aug 31 - Sophie - no comment by others
Aug 26 - Isambard - no comment by others
Jul 13 - Sophie - no comment by others
Jul 12 - David - no comment by others
Jul 7 - Sam - no comment by others
Jul 7 - Sophie - no comment by others
Jul 6 - Sophie - no comment by others
Apr 13 - Alan - no substantial comment by others

I got bored at that point :-)

There was discussion on Sep 2nd about this, with the consensus being
"revisit if it gets too spammy".

The posts on the list tend to be even announcements and job postings.

Perhaps worth noting that those who have posted multiple jobs appear to
have also participated in other discussions too. *Personally* I think it's
over inflated. The data says we're not inundated with job postings, and the
fact that the same people are posting them suggests to me that people are
getting jobs as a result of this. (I could be wrong on that - given it's
supposition)

As for code of conduct, I work with cubs every week who are 8-10.5 years
old and they would all understand that no matter how lighthearted, everyone
piling onto simple a mistake can be upsetting. And that's before the
dreadful comments that some people have made.

IMO, Leave it as is, and ask people just for a bit of common politeness.
The list description says "there will be job ads". it's said that for years
(decades?) Anyone who doesn't like it doesn't actually have to join. (and
if they can't tolerate a high peak of 5 ads in a month - not even this
month, perhaps they need to re-evaluate their response)

Anyway, that's my tuppenceworth.


Michael.

On 8 December 2016 at 14:00, Andy Robinson  wrote:

> On 8 December 2016 at 09:29, James Broadhead 
> wrote:
>
> > Personally, I'd be in favour of #2 - it allows the community to promote
> > positions internally, but avoids recruiter-mails which seem to trigger so
> > much ire.
>
> It seems to me that the real issue was a tiny number of list members
> being rude to or about Sophie Hendley.
>
> But if we are to consider changing our policy on this, then we need to
> find out what the 720 subscribers think.   I would not want to cut
> that many people off from a relevant and interesting future job offer
> if less than 1% of them are grumbling about recruiters.   How many
> people would need to express an opinion to warrant changing things?
>
> - Andy
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Re: [python-uk] Python Platform Developer - Counter Terrorism

[Michael]

On 20 February 2017 at 11:44, S Walker  wrote:

> I'm just wondering what happens if two people with the (BOGUS AGREEMENTS)
> disclaimer mail each other. This inspires ideas for future dojo silliness.
>
>
I believe a major apathy disclaimer starts being expressed at that stage.

:-)


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] Python role - South East England

[Michael]

I never understand why people get angry at jobs being posted to this list.

After all the footer to the list has as always https://mail.python.org/
mailman/listinfo/python-uk

And on that subscription page it says:


*This list is to help UK Python users to form a community, arrange events,
advertise help or jobs wanted or sought and generally chat.*

It is a bit of shame that the biggest form of usage is jobs mails though.

(I don't have any solutions here, just expressing the usual mild surprise
that anyone gets angry at the list being used for it's intended purpose.
But then if we go there, we'll end up talking about reply-to policies, vi,
vim, emacs, joe, tabs vs spaces, 8 space tabs vs 4 space, and other silly
things, so I'll just godwinise it by comparing my "It'z In ze rulez" post
to being something far more extreme... and close this down before it starts
:-D )


Michael.

On 12 October 2017 at 16:02, Steve Holden  wrote:

>
> Hi Paul,
>
> By posting this note you have, in fact, already informed all relevant
> people about your vacancy. This has been known to engender negative
> comments in the past. You might also be interested in the Python Software
> Foundation's Jobs Board at https://www.python.org/jobs/, and you can
> enter your jobs by consulting https://www.python.org/community/jobs/howto/
> .
>
> regards
>  Steve
>
> Steve Holden
>
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Coates, Paul  progressiverecruitment.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to post this job where I am currently looking for 3 Python
>> Developers, email to send out:-
>>
>>
>>
> [potentially irritating text removed]​
>
>>
>
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[python-uk] Hello All

[Michael Foord]

Hello there,
I've just discovered the python-uk mailing list :-)
Jolly pleasant it is too.
Best Regards,
Fuzzyman
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python
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[python-uk] Hello All

[Michael Foord]

Hello there,
I've just discovered the python-uk mailing list :-)
Jolly pleasant it is too.
Best Regards,
Fuzzyman
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python
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[python-uk] Open Tech 2005 (Hammersmith) : Kamaelia Talk & Sprint

[Michael Sparks]

Hi,


I suspect a number of people are already aware of Open Tech, but for those
who aren't - Open Tech 2005 is a follow on from previous years' NotCon events
which are community driven low cost events by geeks & developers for geeks & 
developers.

Website: http://www.ukuug.org/events/opentech2005/

This year and it's being held in conjunction with BBC Backstage, UKUUG (UK 
Unix Users Group) and NTK, and being held in Hammersmith on July 23rd. 
(Backstage is a different part of the BBC from me, but have some fun stuff 
here : http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/ )

>From a personal perspective highlights look to be Paula LeDieu from Creative
Commons, Ted Nelson (if you don't know who he is, he's basically the father of
Hypertext) and others.

However, I'm also presenting a talk on Kamaelia*. Unlike Python UK &
Europython this is going to be a 15 minute talk, so I'll be focussing on what
we've been doing with Kamaelia, what you can do with Kamaelia, and so
on rather than going through internals.

  * http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/

In addition though, I wondered: Since my talk on Kamaelia is before lunch - is 
there anyone interested in attending a Kamaelia sprint?

There's a variety of possible topics ranging from how to put together simple
Kamaelia systems through to using Kamaelia for simplifying networking on Nokia
mobiles through to using Kamaelia for writing games (since we have some nice
Pygame based components now). 

I'll probably be sprinting on converting a proof of concept P2P swarming
algorithm into a protocol for creating TCP server swarms. This is for joining
together multicast islands to make it so that internet broadcasting, rather
than narrowcasting, can become a reality for the BBC - which has clear
benefits for everyone! (Even though the internet is not TV :)

I've mooted this with a couple of people so far who think it's a fun/good 
idea, but I'd like to hear from some of the people who go to the london 
python meetups before posting to comp.lang.python.

Best Regards,


Michael
 --
Michael Sparks, Senior R&D Engineer, Digital Media Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED], http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/
British Broadcasting Corporation, Research and Development
Kingswood Warren, Surrey KT20 6NP

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Re: [python-uk] London Python Meetup, October the 10th.

[Michael Sparks]

On Tuesday 06 September 2005 15:37, Simon Brunning wrote:
> I'm organising a Python meetup in London next month. All welcome.
>
> <http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/archives/001921.html>

Do people normally reply here or just turn up? I'm planning on coming :-)
Out of interest, are people planning on going to Euro OSCON? (If you are, I've
been given some a couple of discount codes, one I can give out 4 more times,
and another than I can give out as many times as I like (AFACIT))

Also, are you planning on announcing this on c.l.p ? 


Michael.
--
http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"""To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield""" -- Tennyson, Ulysses
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Re: [python-uk] London Python Meetup, October the 10th.

[Michael Sparks]

On Monday 12 Sep 2005 09:58, Simon Brunning wrote:
...
> This is the forst one I've organised without Meetup.com, so I'm kind
> of feeling my way here. Perhaps leave a blog comment.

I'll do that :-)

> Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing you there. Any chance of
> bringing a little Kamaelia demo with you? Nothing formal - more of a
> blokes-with-pints-gathered-behind-a-notebook kind of thing.

Yeah, sure no problem :-) (So far Kamaelia's turning into a fun way to do all 
sorts of things, so it'd be a pleasure really :-)

We've now got Dirac decoding, tweaked this weekend, and playing back through 
Kamaelia as well now, so that's two things with one stone :-) 

> > Also, are you planning on announcing this on c.l.p ?
>
> I wasn't, no. I've always thought that c.l.py was the wrong place for
> local announcements. Think I should?

You're probably right about c.l.p, but c.l.p.a seems to encourage it 
periodically ? Personally I'd say it wouldn't hurt.  I wonder 
what the popularity would be of a python crawl vs sprint...  

:-)


Michael.
-- 
Michael Sparks, Senior R&D Engineer, Digital Media Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED], http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/
British Broadcasting Corporation, Research and Development
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[python-uk] Python Meetup Monday 10th?

[Michael Sparks]

Hi,


I hadn't heard a peep on the list since the last comments. Is Monday still on?


OOI, would it be inappropriate to call this a Python Crawl rather than a
sprint ;-)


(sorry :-)


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] Python Meetup Monday 10th?

[Michael Foord]

Simon Brunning wrote:
> On 10/10/05, John J Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>>Will there be spam?
> 
> 
> I might spoil you.
> 

Shame I won't be there... have a good time guys.

Fuzzy

> --
> Cheers,
> Simon B,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/
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Re: [python-uk] Python Meetup Monday 10th?

[Michael Sparks]

On Monday 10 Oct 2005 14:45, John J Lee wrote:
> Will there be spam?

I can bring a tin of spam if you REALLY want, he says looking at the tin on 
his desk...  :-)


Michael
-- 
Michael Sparks, Senior R&D Engineer, Digital Media Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED], http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/
British Broadcasting Corporation, Research and Development
Kingswood Warren, Surrey KT20 6NP

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Re: [python-uk] Are you looking for a new exciting opportunity as a Python Develo per

[Michael Foord]

Will McGugan wrote:
> Rakesh Thakrar wrote:
> 
> 
>>Due to further expansion our client, a cutting edge software development
>>company that has applied novel technological approaches to produce an
>>excitingly different data management system, is seeking to recruit 3
>>software developers of any level to work as a Python Developer.
>>Candidate Requirements:
>>Graduates or Junior developers must be able to show an interest in Open
>>Source Technology.
>>Mid level / Senior candidates must show a solid track record in commercial
>>software development with any of the following languages: Smalltalk, Lisp,
>>C++, Java, J2EE, Perl, Ruby, Haskel, Python as well as exposure to
>>Linux/Unix, and show some outside interest of Python/Open Source
>>technologies.
>>Salary Range: £18-50K + Benefits (Relocation package available)
>> 

I'm also interested in location. I'd be interested in a junior developer
position, but am not keen to relocate.

All the best,

Michael Foord
(Fuzzyman)
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml

>>
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I may be interested in this. I've worked with Python for 4+ years, 
> profesionaly. It has also been my hobby lately - I have produced several 
> applications and a website in Python.
> 
> Can you tell me where they are located?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Will McGugan
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> 
> 
> 

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Re: [python-uk] Web Development with Python

[Michael Foord]

Simon Faulkner wrote:
> I often have to write small web databases - nothing too fancy, just a 
> table or 2 and a few forms/reports.  Sometimes it's just a web frontend 
> to a program othertimes more like a database for tracking items.
> 
> I have used Python and MySQL in CGI but it seems quite long winded.
> 
> I have used Zope/Plone but it is quite a heavyweight solution for a 
> small app and quite slow unless you do a lot of caching.
> 
> I have looked at Ruby/Rails but it seems a shame to loose what 
> experience I have in Python by switching to a new language.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience in this field and/or can suggest what I 
> might try or look at to continue developing in Python?

I'm surprised you haven't had a flood of emails replying to this. :-)

The usual choices (with Python) are :

Turbogears
Subway
Django
Karrigell
(plus others - albatross ?)

For smaller apps Karrigell probably has the easiest learning curve.
Turbogears and subway are both based on the CherryPy application server,
which has a very good reputation.

Turbogears probably has the most active user community and momentum.

Django uses it's own ORM (database) - but has very good, ready built,
admin/authentication systems. It's a cross between an application server
and CMS, so more obviously suited to applications that lean in that
direction.

The above solutions are *basically* multi-threaded solutions (although
turbogears can run as multi process and karrigell can run in
asynchronous mode I believe).

A *great* option - that doesn't seem to be getting much mileage at the
moment - is a Twisted based solution. In conjunction with Axiom
(database) and Nevow (templating) and possibly even Mantissa (ready
built application server under heavy development) it is an asynchronous
solution that is highly scalable.

I hope that helps.

Fuzzyman
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml

> 
> TIA
> 
> Simon
> 
> ___
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> 

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[python-uk] Reminder: Python Meet Manchester 8th Feb, Lass O'Gowrie

[Michael Sparks]

Hi,


Just a reminder that Python Meet Manchester is happening NEXT week.
* Where: Lass O'Gowrie Pub. Directions: http://tinyurl.com/cp3kv
* When: 7pm onwards, Wed 8th Feb

I don't know if this'll be the first meetup for pythonistas that's happened in 
Manchester, but it'll be the first one I've been to there - should be fun :-) 

If you've been to one in London you know pretty much what to expect - a
bunch of geeks in a pub talking, well, about python and stuff they find
interesting. If you've used/written/found something you think's cool and
want to talk about it & show it off please do.

Sign up page (not obligatory, but would be nice if people did - it at least 
has my ugly mug on as a point of reference for people :-) here:
   * http://tinyurl.com/a9cry

Current topics offered up for discussion:
   * Turbo Gears
   * Kamaelia (Similar problem space to twisted for people who don't know what
  it is, but very different - hopefully more newbie friendly)
   * How to write "Pythonically". (I'm convinced you need to be dutch for that
 one myself ;-)

Also if you're vaguely interested in python, but are interested in other
things like RoR, please come along - the London meets are interesting
because of the eclectic mix of people/interests :-)

Likewise if there's anything you'd be interested in seeing/hearing about, 
please come and chat about it :)

Please feel free to forward this reminder around! 

See you there!


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] Reminder: Python Meet Manchester 8th Feb, Lass O'Gowrie

[Michael Hudson]

Michael Sparks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi,
>
>
> Just a reminder that Python Meet Manchester is happening NEXT week.
> * Where: Lass O'Gowrie Pub. Directions: http://tinyurl.com/cp3kv
> * When: 7pm onwards, Wed 8th Feb
>
> I don't know if this'll be the first meetup for pythonistas that's happened 
> in 
> Manchester, but it'll be the first one I've been to there - should be fun :-) 

Hey, you are still alive!  Have you been getting my emails recently? :)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  The above comment may be extremely inflamatory. For your
  protection, it has been rot13'd twice.
   -- the signature of "JWhitlock" on slashdot

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Re: [python-uk] Reminder: Python Meet Manchester 8th Feb, Lass O'Gowrie

[Michael Sparks]

On Wednesday 01 February 2006 17:42, Michael Hudson wrote:
...
> > I don't know if this'll be the first meetup for pythonistas that's
> > happened in Manchester, but it'll be the first one I've been to there -
> > should be fun :-)
>
> Hey, you are still alive!  Have you been getting my emails recently? :)

fx: *rummages*

Oops! Sorry - I'll reply off list :-)

fx: *beats spam filter with a wet haddock*


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] I'm not going to the ACCU conference

[Michael Hudson]

Duncan Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I didn't get myself organised to sign up for the conference this year, 
> but does anyone fancy an evening meet-up for a drink and/or food 
> somewhere in Oxford outside the confines of the conference venue?

Sure!  When is good for you?  Wednesday night is the "Blackwells
reception", don't know what that is or how long it's likely to go on
for, Thursday night has a couple of mystery sessions at the end of the
day of unclear length and Friday has the dinner...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  It is never worth a first class man's time to express a majority
  opinion.  By definition, there are plenty of others to do that.
-- G. H. Hardy

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Re: [python-uk] Manchester 2.0 Beta? Re: London 2.0 rc5

[Michael Hudson]

Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi!
>
>
> It's been a few months since the last Northern Python Meetup, if anyone's up 
> for a repeat, how about having Manchester 2.1 Beta ? :-)

What about Bristol?  Not that I'm there very often at the moment, I'm
more likely to make a London meet en route to an airport...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
8. A programming language is low level when its programs require
   attention to the irrelevant.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html

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[python-uk] Northampton Meetup

[Michael Foord]

Hello all,

While we're discussing meetups (I hope to be at the May 3rd one), would 
anyone be interested in a Northampton meetup sometime ?

Fuzzyman
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml
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[python-uk] [ TONIGHT 7pm onwards ] Re: Manchester 2.0 Beta ? Re: London 2.0 rc5

[Michael Sparks]

> Sorry for not responding sooner ... I started an email to say "yeah,
> i'll come", got distracted, and then forgot to send it.

I've been meaning to send updates as well, but life's been busy (which is
good).

> Is the Manchester meetup on for tonight? If so, is it the same place as
> last time?

It is indeed - I was going to try and get a chance to see if we could book a
function room in Joshua Brooks (on the offchance of it being cheap enough or
free :) - which is more or less next door, but didn't get a chance to do so.

For those who don't know:

Lass O'Gowrie Pub, from 7pm onwards. I'll probably be there from around
6 ish.

http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/11/1144/Lass_OGowrie/Manchester

If it's anything like last time we'll be in the little off shoot room
directly opposite the main entrance, and I'll be wearing a BBC R&D t-shirt.
There may also be a penguin on the table :)

Best Regards,


Michael.
-- 
Michael Sparks, Senior Research Engineer, BBC Research, Technology Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Kamaelia Project Lead, http://kamaelia.sf.net/
Summer of Code: http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/SummerOfCode2006.html

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[python-uk] europython 2006 registration open!

[Michael Hudson]

Registration for EuroPython 2006 at CERN near Geneva in Switzerland
from 3-5 July is now open:

http://www.europython.org/sections/registration_issues

You can still propose a talk:

http://www.europython.org/sections/tracks_and_talks/announcements/call-for-proposals

EuroPython is *the* European Python and Zope event of the year.  This
year we have keynotes from the ever present Guido van Rossum and from
the noted visionary and educator Alan Kay.

See you there!

Cheers,
mwh
(EP2006 program chair)

-- 
  I can't see a conspicuous evolutionary advantage in being good
  at higher mathematics.   -- James Riden, asr

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[python-uk] europython 2006 timetable taking shape!

[Michael Hudson]

If you point your favourite web browsing software at

http://indico.cern.ch/conferenceTimeTable.py?confId=44&showDate=all&showSession=all&detailLevel=contribution&viewMode=parallel

you should fine most of the schedule for a conference.

The timetable is still very preliminary, but the content of the talks
is less so, and you should be able to get an idea of the talks you can
expect to hear at EuroPython 2006.  I'm actually genuinely pleased
(and a little surprised :-) with how strong the program looks.

(For more general conference stuff: http://www.europython.org)

Cheers,
mwh
(EuroPython 2006 Program Chair)

-- 
41. Some programming languages manage to absorb change, but
withstand progress.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html

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[python-uk] EP2006 timetable and reduced registration

[Michael Hudson]

Hi Pythonistas!

EuroPython 2006 is nearing and there is much good news!

We have a very nice program of over 100 interesting talks (sorry that we
had to reject some), see here for yourself: 

http://www.europython.org/timetable

Also we have slots for 50 lightning (5 minute) talks so be sure to
prepare one and register at the conference. 

We have also secured Alan Kay (the inventor of OO languages, Smalltalk,
opencroquet.org etc.) as a key note speaker and are happy that Guido van
Rossum will make it again! 

But best of all, the voluntary organisers have decided to give you
another chance to register for a reduced fee -- but only until this
weekend, so hurry and register: 

http://www.europython.org/sections/registration_issues

If you have questions then mail to europython@python.org or come to
#europython on irc.freenode.net. 

See you there, or in fact here: 

http://www.europython.org/venue.jpg

Cheers,
mwh & holger
(on behalf of the EuroPython organizers)

-- 
  SPIDER:  'Scuse me. [scuttles off]
  ZAPHOD:  One huge spider.
FORD:  Polite though.
   -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 11

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Re: [python-uk] London Python meetup on the 12th

[Michael Foord]

Simon Brunning wrote:
> For those not keeping an eye on the "London Python" Google Calendar,
> or its RSS feed[1], I've arranged a meetup for the evening of next
> Wednesday the 12th.
>
> Venue TBC, but it'll be central London somewhere.
>
>   
Great - I'll be there. I'll try to drag along as many of my coworkers as 
possible.

Is the venue chosen yet ?

If someone has a laptop I *may* be able to demo the new version of 
Movable Python (for Python 2.2-2.5 plus IronPython) if anyone is 
interested ?

All the best,

Michael Foord
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml


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Re: [python-uk] London Python meetup on the 12th

[Michael Foord]

Simon Brunning wrote:
> On 7/10/06, Michael Foord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Great - I'll be there. I'll try to drag along as many of my coworkers as
>> possible.
>>
>> Is the venue chosen yet ?
>> 
>
> Nope. I'll get on it.
>
>   
>> If someone has a laptop I *may* be able to demo the new version of
>> Movable Python (for Python 2.2-2.5 plus IronPython) if anyone is
>> interested ?
>> 
>
> Oh yes.
>
> Does it run on a Mac? ;-)
>   
Not yet, but next month I can afford a Mac laptop, so it shouldn't be 
more than a few months after that... :-)

Michael
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml


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Re: [python-uk] London Python meetup on the 12th

[Michael Foord]

Aargh... pressure of life and all that, and I can't make it. I hope you 
guys have (are having) a good time without me. :-(

Michael
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml

Fuzzyman wrote:
>  Original Message 
> Subject:  Re: [python-uk] London Python meetup on the 12th
> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:42:04 +0100
> From: Simon Brunning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: UK Python Users 
> To:   UK Python Users 
> References:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
> On 7/10/06, Michael Foord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Simon Brunning wrote:
>> 
>>> Venue TBC, but it'll be central London somewhere.
>>>   
>> Is the venue chosen yet ?
>> 
>
> It is now.
>
> The Stage Door, 30 Webber St, Waterloo, London SE1 8QA
>
> See <http://tinyurl.com/ko27s>.
>
>   

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Re: [python-uk] London Python Planet

[Michael Sparks]

On Tuesday 10 October 2006 13:01, Simon Brunning wrote:
> A big thank you to Menno Smits and Remi Delon for setting up and
> hosting Planet London Python.
>
> <http://londonpython.org.uk/>

I'm now based in Not London, which makes london python meets a rare 
possibility for me (I was wrong about the other day, sorry!), so can I have 
my feed included on this as well?  (On the basis that everyone in London 
thinks that anything worth knowing is london based ;-) (a python-uk planet 
would've made more sense to me, but hey I don't normally make sense to 
others ;)

Feed: http://yeoldeclue.com/cgi-bin/blog/feed.cgi

Now you know where my occasional inane drivellings are :-)
(But hey, in the eyes of some, I blog a bit therefore I am, rather than I blog 
not therefore I am not :-)


Michael (Now based north of the watford gap)
--
Michael Sparks, Kamaelia Dust Puppy
http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Home
http://yeoldeclue.com/blog
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[python-uk] North West GeekUp Tuesday 14th November Re: London Python Meetup, Wednesday the 15th of November

[Michael Sparks]

Hi,


For those in the Northwest, and not aware of it, there's "GeekUp" -
which appears to be the same idea as the London RC2.1 type things.
I'm going along, and it'd be great to see any other pythonistas
there too.

Details:
   * http://geekup.org/

Well, it sounds pretty much the same: 
"GeekUp is a growing community of web designers, web developers,
 and other web-minded folk from the North West who meetup monthly
 in Manchester to discuss the latest industry news, share ideas
 and spread a little knowledge."

When?
Tuesday 14th November, 2006 at 18:00
Where?
B-Lounge, Piccadilly, Manchester M1 2DB
Who?
Add yourself on the Upcoming.org event page.
http://upcoming.org/event/117533/

Also, for those who may be interested - this was linked on the upcoming.org 
page above:
from: http://upcoming.org/event/120380/  -- Thurs, 23rd November

"""NW Start Up 2.0

Starting an internet business? Seasoned entrepreneur? Got the killer idea? 
Wondering what the 2.0 this and 2.0 that is all about? Looking for 
investment? Looking to invest?
...
Come along to the north-west's first and premier 2.0 networking event for an 
evening of conversation and potential dealmaking. We aim to encourage 
creative thinking.
"""

(Sounds like this second thing *might be* a charged for thing though)



Michael.

On Monday 06 November 2006 12:17, Simon Brunning wrote:
> Details here: <http://tinyurl.com/yn68ax>.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Simon B
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/
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[python-uk] request to supply diazepam tablets.

[MICHAEL PALMER]

hi there its mick i would like too buy some valium off you but wud like a 
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[python-uk] Next Manchester Geekup, January 9th 2007

[Michael Sparks]

Hi,


Just a reminder that the next Manchester Geekup is next Tuesday on January 
9th. I'm going to these regularly now, rather than organise a separate python 
meet - fellow pythonistas would be welcome :)

URL: http://geekup.org/

WHERE: B-Lounge, Piccadilly, Manchester M1 2DB
(down the ramp from Piccadilly train station)

WHEN: People tend to arrive after 6, with talks (given volunteers :-) at
  7pm (format of talks is generally either lightning talk or PechaKucha
  style)

... Also, you are all cordially invited to come along to see me performing on 
stage in The Mikado at the Royal Northern College of Music (in the chorus :) 
with MUGSS, ... in the style of Bollywood in mid-February for modest insults 
starting at 5GBP. For more information see here:

   * http://www.mugss.org/show/
   * http://www.mugss.org/show/tickets/ 

Happy New Year to everyone :)


Michael
--
Kamaelia Project Lead
http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Home
http://yeoldeclue.com/blog
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Re: [python-uk] London Python Meetup, Tuesday January the 16th

[Michael Foord]

Simon Brunning wrote:
> Details here: 
> 
>
>   
Bah, Tuesday. I can't make it. :-(

Fuzzyman
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles.shtml
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Re: [python-uk] Help Please

[Michael Sparks]

On Sunday 28 January 2007 22:45, Python Freak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This may be too elementary for most of you, but could you please help me
> with the following question? I would like to use comprehensive lists and
> lists of lists. Where do I start?
>
> Question:
>
> Consider a digraph with 10 vertices, 
[snip]

Is this homework? If so, no problem, but personally I change the way I respond 
to homework questions as opposed to other things :-)

If it is, consider this:
>>> [(x,y) for x in range(y) for y in range(9) ]
[(0, 0), (0, 1), (0, 2), (0, 3), (0, 4), (0, 5), (0, 6), (0, 7), (0, 8),
 (1, 0), (1, 1), (1, 2), (1, 3), (1, 4), (1, 5), (1, 6), (1, 7), (1, 8),
 (2, 0), (2, 1), (2, 2), (2, 3), (2, 4), (2, 5), (2, 6), (2, 7), (2, 8),
 (3, 0), (3, 1), (3, 2), (3, 3), (3, 4), (3, 5), (3, 6), (3, 7), (3, 8),
 (4, 0), (4, 1), (4, 2), (4, 3), (4, 4), (4, 5), (4, 6), (4, 7), (4, 8),
 (5, 0), (5, 1), (5, 2), (5, 3), (5, 4), (5, 5), (5, 6), (5, 7), (5, 8),
 (6, 0), (6, 1), (6, 2), (6, 3), (6, 4), (6, 5), (6, 6), (6, 7), (6, 8),
 (7, 0), (7, 1), (7, 2), (7, 3), (7, 4), (7, 5), (7, 6), (7, 7), (7, 8),
 (8, 0), (8, 1), (8, 2), (8, 3), (8, 4), (8, 5), (8, 6), (8, 7), (8, 8)]

Do you see what's going on there?

Regards,


Michael.
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[python-uk] PyCamp UK !

[Michael Sparks]

Hi,


I don't know how many people here read comp.lang.python or the main python 
list (I suspect its a fair few), but there's been this post:

  * http://tinyurl.com/2ofgtq

  From: Jeff Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  Subject: About PyCamp - a Regional Python Unconference

  A week or so ago, the Dallas and Houston Python User Groups met online in a
  chat room, to discuss the possibility of a regional Python conference. 
  ...
  And tossing around some names, we decided upon "PyCamp".  There is much to
  be discussed re dates, location and how it will operate, so I set up the
  website:
  http://pycamp.python.org/

  ...

  The rough idea is to hold a Texas-wide unconference, perhaps sometimes in
  August and near Austin.  There was also the idea of holding a rotating
  unconference that moves between Dallas, Austin and Houston, say twice a
  year. 

Now, I've got an idea for a venue in Manchester[*] which could probably
cater to about 50-70 people depending on how the rooms are laid out which
would work out to something like £15 - £20 *without* sponsorship. If we
can get sponsorship then that figure would go down or could maybe be
redirected into arranging food or similar ?

   [*] http://www.manchesterdda.com/article/83/

As a result, I'm wondering - is anyone else interested in co-convening such a 
beast? If there is, please email me back!


Michael.
--
http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Home
http://yeoldeclue.com/blog
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Re: [python-uk] PyCamp UK !

[Michael Foord]

Hello Michael,

Sorry for the top-post, but your actual suggestion is a long way down. :-)

I would certainly be very interested in attending and helping with such 
an event. It sounds like a great idea.

Unfortunately I'm tied up with writing a book, which will probably take 
me through until May/June. After that I will have more spare time and 
would love to get involved. If you're heading for an August time you'll 
need to do a lot of work before then, but if you set a date beyond that 
then perhaps I can be useful.

Michael Foord
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles.shtml

Michael Sparks wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> I don't know how many people here read comp.lang.python or the main python 
> list (I suspect its a fair few), but there's been this post:
>
>   * http://tinyurl.com/2ofgtq
>
>   From: Jeff Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   Subject: About PyCamp - a Regional Python Unconference
>
>   A week or so ago, the Dallas and Houston Python User Groups met online in a
>   chat room, to discuss the possibility of a regional Python conference. 
>   ...
>   And tossing around some names, we decided upon "PyCamp".  There is much to
>   be discussed re dates, location and how it will operate, so I set up the
>   website:
>   http://pycamp.python.org/
>
>   ...
>
>   The rough idea is to hold a Texas-wide unconference, perhaps sometimes in
>   August and near Austin.  There was also the idea of holding a rotating
>   unconference that moves between Dallas, Austin and Houston, say twice a
>   year. 
>
> Now, I've got an idea for a venue in Manchester[*] which could probably
> cater to about 50-70 people depending on how the rooms are laid out which
> would work out to something like £15 - £20 *without* sponsorship. If we
> can get sponsorship then that figure would go down or could maybe be
> redirected into arranging food or similar ?
>
>[*] http://www.manchesterdda.com/article/83/
>
> As a result, I'm wondering - is anyone else interested in co-convening such a 
> beast? If there is, please email me back!
>
>
> Michael.
> --
> http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Home
> http://yeoldeclue.com/blog
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>   

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Re: [python-uk] PyCamp UK !

[Michael Sparks]

On Saturday 03 February 2007 19:42, Michael Foord wrote:
> Hello Michael,
>
> Sorry for the top-post, but your actual suggestion is a long way down. :-)

No problem. I wanted to make sure I'd got some context :)

> I would certainly be very interested in attending and helping with such
> an event. It sounds like a great idea.

Cool, I'll take that as a +1 :)

> Unfortunately I'm tied up with writing a book, which will probably take
> me through until May/June. 

Oh is this the IronPython book? Cool :) 

> After that I will have more spare time and would love to get involved. 

That's great to hear :-)

> If you're heading for an August time you'll 
> need to do a lot of work before then, but if you set a date beyond that
> then perhaps I can be useful.

I'm not sure August is actually the best time for people in the UK either - 
since so many people go away then. My feeling is that the best time would be 
sometime in early September - either 1/2 Sept or 8/9th Sept.

I'll wait for a few more comments and then chat to people on Monday.


Michael
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Re: [python-uk] PyCamp UK !

[Michael Foord]

Michael Sparks wrote:
> [snip..]
>> Unfortunately I'm tied up with writing a book, which will probably take
>> me through until May/June. 
>> 
>
> Oh is this the IronPython book? Cool :) 
>
>   
Yup.  Just completed the first draft of chapter 2.  Already behind 
schedule. :-)

Michael

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Re: [python-uk] PyCamp UK !

[Michael Sparks]

On Monday 05 February 2007 12:19, Andy Robinson wrote:
> > I'm not sure August is actually the best time for people in the UK either
> > - since so many people go away then. My feeling is that the best time
> > would be sometime in early September - either 1/2 Sept or 8/9th Sept.
>
> +1.  Especially after August.

OK, I've now had more than a handful of positive replies which is Great! :)
So, this looks like a go and I'll kick this into motion - many thanks to
everyone who's offered to help - I'll reply individually shortly, as well as 
set something up for co-ordination.

There's a general view that September is preferable to August. 

As a result, I'm tempted to suggest either:
   * 8/9 Sept (my preference)
   * 15/16 Sept (possible clash for some with rails conf on 17/18)

As two possible dates. I'm not suggested 1/2 Sept now because I realised
that's the other weekend "attached" to the week with the august bank
holiday, and many people go away then.

Thoughts?


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] [Ann] New user group

[Michael Sparks]

Hi Andy,


You might want to consider a crosslinking between the Geekup and NorWeb sites.
(Geekup is also a northwest user group and people have been coming from
across the northwest, so some loose co-ordination would probably a nice
idea :)

I'm sure Andrew & Dan would think its a good idea. 

   * http://geekup.org/

The next meet is on the 13th. I won't be there unfortunately because I'll be 
at a rehearsal - http://www.mugss.org/show/ .

There's also a (free) jobs board there, which would probably a good idea to 
link to: 
   * http://jobboard.geekup.org/

Just taken a look and there 2 jobs specific to Merseyside posted, so it'd 
probably be a good idea :)

I'll try and come along to a future meet if possible :)

Regards,


Michael.

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Re: [python-uk] PyCamp UK !

[Michael Foord]

Michael Sparks wrote:
> On Monday 05 February 2007 12:19, Andy Robinson wrote:
>   
>>> I'm not sure August is actually the best time for people in the UK either
>>> - since so many people go away then. My feeling is that the best time
>>> would be sometime in early September - either 1/2 Sept or 8/9th Sept.
>>>   
>> +1.  Especially after August.
>> 
>
> OK, I've now had more than a handful of positive replies which is Great! :)
> So, this looks like a go and I'll kick this into motion - many thanks to
> everyone who's offered to help - I'll reply individually shortly, as well as 
> set something up for co-ordination.
>
> There's a general view that September is preferable to August. 
>
> As a result, I'm tempted to suggest either:
>* 8/9 Sept (my preference)
>   
Sounds good to me... but then I barely know what I'm doing tomorrow. :-)

Fuzzyman
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles.shtml

>* 15/16 Sept (possible clash for some with rails conf on 17/18)
>
> As two possible dates. I'm not suggested 1/2 Sept now because I realised
> that's the other weekend "attached" to the week with the august bank
> holiday, and many people go away then.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] PyCamp UK !

[Michael Foord]

Richard Smedley wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 19:30:39 Michael Foord wrote:
>   
>>> As a result, I'm tempted to suggest either:
>>>* 8/9 Sept (my preference)
>>>   
>>>   
>> Sounds good to me... but then I barely know what I'm doing
>> tomorrow. :-)
>> 
>
> I barely know what I'm doing today but I think I have a reasonable
> handle on September ;-)
>
> I'd already written to Michael S off-list where, inter alia, I
> favoured this date - despite the clash with LBW2007.
>
>   
Cool.

I've been looking at the 'Open Space' stuff. It looks very interesting, 
but without an agenda or presentations I would be interested in knowing 
what the tangible goals of a Python 'unconference' would be?

Additionally:

* Would presentation equipment be available for groups that might find 
it useful ?
* Would coding be appropriate or expected for groups that wanted to ? 
(bring your own laptop...)

Fuzzyman
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles.shtml
> However I note that the W Mids Python group is planning something
> similar at the same time, and the two parties are now sorting
> out between them what will happen when, so at the very least we
> will have a PyCamp this year and next year over the two
> regions. We could even get two camps per year ;-)
>
> Wherever and whenever, I trust we get a Zope track - it'll push
> me to try and get the hang of it :^)
>
>  - Richard
>
>
>
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Re: [python-uk] PyCamp UK !

[Michael Sparks]

On Monday 05 February 2007 20:21, Richard Smedley wrote:
..
> I barely know what I'm doing today but I think I have a reasonable
> handle on September ;-)
>
> I'd already written to Michael S off-list where, inter alia, I
> favoured this date - despite the clash with LBW2007.

I have no idea what LBW is BTW. Leg Before Wicket 2007 doesn't make much
sense to me :-) 

:googles

Oh. That's a bit far for me (Never felt the inclination to go to that).

> However I note that the W Mids Python group is planning something
> similar at the same time, and the two parties are now sorting
> out between them what will happen when, so at the very least we
> will have a PyCamp this year and next year over the two
> regions. We could even get two camps per year ;-)

I chatted to John briefly at lunchtime today, and will be chatting with
him tomorrow about figuring out how to make this work. I think the plan 
initially is to find out what the aims of the two things are.

I have a feeling the two are complementary since it sounds like John's 
organising a conference and I'm organising an unconference. I'll hold on 
dates though until chatting with John.

At the end of the day, we'll clash with *something* that much is guaranteed,
however avoiding some of the more python & scripting language related things
is my primary aim.

Whilst Michael Foord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> I've been looking at the 'Open Space' stuff. It looks very interesting, 
> but without an agenda or presentations I would be interested in knowing 
> what the tangible goals of a Python 'unconference' would be?

This is something I'll be pulling together in the invite. (Given the low
level of upfront structure, the invite takes on much greater importance)
I know it sounds like it doesn't work, but it works surprisingly well.

> * Would presentation equipment be available for groups that might find 
> it useful ?

If the venue I suggested is large enough, it has presentation equipment.

> * Would coding be appropriate or expected for groups that wanted to ? 
> (bring your own laptop...)

Absolutely.


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] [OT] MU G&S (was: New user group)

[Michael Sparks]

On Monday 05 February 2007 13:57, Tim Golden wrote:
> [Michael Sparks]
>
> > I won't be there unfortunately because I'll
> > be at a rehearsal - http://www.mugss.org/show/ .
>
> Hey! Hope it goes well. 

Thanks!

> If you look here: 
>
> http://www.mugss.org/history/1989/

Cool :-) So, you coming to see the show then? ;-)

> Good luck with it when it comes; G&S is always fun.

Many thanks - it's gonna be a blast this year :)


Michael.
 --
OK, on that topic, a relatively spammy mail, but if you're in the Manchester 
area, it'll be worthwhile.  (I hadn't intended to post this here because 
everyone is so spread out, but discovering Tim's an ex-Mugss, it seems 
worthwhile. It's probably not relevant to many, so please find it 
amusing/surreal instead :-)

(repost of mail to geekup)

Hi!


I'd like to invite you all to come and see a Bollywood inspired version of
"The Mikado" at the Royal Northern College of Music. It's being put on
by the award winning MUGSS society, and tickets start at a piffling £5 for
concessions or start at £8 for the rest of us :)

Why should you see it?

It's going to be FANTASTIC, with a chorus of dozens and dancing
numbers that just don't end. You'll never have seen The Mikado done
this way nor never again. Where else can you see a giant elephant on
stage in a light opera set in Japan? You can come and laugh at
me on stage :) You will enjoy it, and anyone else you bring will
too :)

When is it ? 

 From Valentine's day until the end of the week - Feb 14th - Feb 17th,
at 7:30pm, also with a  matinee on the 17th at 2:30, so you can bring
the kids, who are *bound* to love it :)

The matinee will also feature BSL signing.

Where can I get tickets?

Either speak to me and I can get them for you, and we can wraggle over 
concessions :) or book online using the RNCM's website. More info:
   * http://www.mugss.org/show/tickets/
   * http://tinyurl.com/2wtqj4 (link to RNCM website)

What's it about?

Well, The Mikado does have one of the more cogent plots of G&S, and
its essentially a love story of hope, despair, and courage. More info:
   * http://www.mugss.org/show/

Not interested? Please pass this on to someone who will be :)
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Re: [python-uk] PyCamp UK !

[Michael Sparks]

Hi All,


On Tuesday 06 February 2007 10:12, John Pinner wrote:
...
> > I have a feeling the two are complementary since it sounds like John's
> > organising a conference and I'm organising an unconference. I'll hold on
> > dates though until chatting with John.
>
> Yes, there's no clash other than possibly with dates, as the ideas are
> indeed complementary :-) Michael and I are meeting in Brum today and no
> doubt will make some proposals afterwards.

Further to this, we had a chat and came to the conclusion that maybe the end 
of July ie 28th/29th might be a better weekend. This is completely the 
opposite end of the month from Europython, so there's no clash there.

I've been trying to do the following:
   * Avoid august, since most people have a proper holiday then :)
   * Try to keep outside University term dates, in case there's much bigger
 interest and we need to find a bigger venue (lots of empty rooms)
   * Try to not clash with interesting conferences.

Given what's going on in september, this seems to leave late July. That 
actually strikes me as pretty good though.

Comments welcome :) (I'm away from email again all day tomorrow BTW)


Michael
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[python-uk] Python Training in London

[Michael Foord]

Hello all,

Since I've been working in London I've been asked about Python training 
at least a couple of times. Does anyone know of any that has / is / will 
be done ?

Michael Foord
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles.shtml
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Re: [python-uk] Python Training in London

[Michael Foord]

Interesting to know John, thanks. If I get further enquiries I'll push 
them in your direction.

Are you allowed to say which bank you do training for?

Michael
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles.shtml

John Pinner wrote:
> Michael Foord wrote:
>   
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Since I've been working in London I've been asked about Python training 
>> at least a couple of times. Does anyone know of any that has / is / will 
>> be done ?
>> 
>
> We do training:
>
>   http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/products/training
>
> and have a 'no-frills' Python course:
>
> http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/products/training/introducing_python
>
> at a low enough price to compensate for it not being in London.
>
> If there's sufficient demand, we'll hold courses in London, but it won't 
> be at those prices. (We're currently arranging dedicated courses in 
> London for a well-known merchant bank, and could probably run something 
> off the back of that.)
>
> If you're interested, please let me know.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> John
> --
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Re: [python-uk] Python evening talks in London

[Michael Foord]

Andy Robinson wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Yet another London-centric suggestion.  Apologies to the rest of the 
> country.
>   
Sounds great Andy.

I'm tied up for a few months, but after that will be much freer to take 
part in this sort of thing. I'd love to attend.

Suggestions for talk subjects :

* web frameworks (naturally!)
* popular standard library and extension modules
* setuptools and eggs
* IPython (the alternative interactive interpreter)
* GUI framework comparison
* Jython
* Testing tools
* Project management with Trac
* Developing with RPython (Restricted Python from PyPy - already used in 
production systems by companies like EWT)

I'd be happy to talk about IronPython sometime. Possibly also a few 
other subjects I have in mind for further down the road (using rest2web, 
GUI acceptance tests with unittest, agile development and TDD etc).

There are lots of banks, hedge funds and other companies that now 
develop with Python. It would be nice to find a way of reaching them 
(and finding out what they would like to learn about). Perhaps spamming 
all the London companies that advertise on the Python job board ?

Format - talk and demo followed by questions works well for many 
subjects. How about sprinting style as well ?

All the best,

Michael Foord
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml


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Re: [python-uk] Python evening talks in London

[Michael Foord]

Mike Pentney wrote:
> Hi, Andy.
>
> I've been using Python off and on for about 18 months or so.
> I'd be very interested in attending. I don't (unfortunately)
> have any cutting edge applications to talk about yet, but I'm
> always interested in learning what other people are doing.
> My particular interests would be GUI frameworks, Python 3000,
> applications of Python (especially engineering, scientific
> and financial), and web frameworks. Plus of course it is
> always good to meet other Python users.
>
> If the IET venue doesn't work out for any reason, the Institute
> of Physics also have good facilities at 76 Portland Place. Probably
> not free, but not too expensive either.
>   
 From a socialising point of view, the Python meetups that Simon 
Brunning organises are fantastic. :-)

Michael Foord
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml

> Regards,
>
> Mike Pentney
>
> Andy Robinson wrote:
>   
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Yet another London-centric suggestion.  Apologies to the rest of the 
>> country.
>>
>> I've been talking to a friend who is discovering the joys of Python, and 
>> is a committee member of the Institute of Engineering and Technology 
>> (www.theiet.org)  He believes we could get rooms in their place, which 
>> is next to the Savoy, to hold evening talks followed by networking over 
>> a drink or two.  They have a distinguished location with rooms for 
>> anything from 20 up to 200 and he believes it could cost little or 
>> nothing to the visitors.
>>
>> The general idea would be a talk on some Python-related subjects, 
>> libraries or frameworks, about once a month, which can reach a wider 
>> network of developers than usually turn up for the pub sessions.  People 
>> would be encouraged to bring laptops (Wifi available) and try out 
>> whatever's being talked about, so if they discovered a few useful 
>> libraries for a task, they could put them to work next day; and 
>> experience Pythonistas could advise newbies.
>>
>> A proposal is needed to their committee by end of this month.  So,
>> - who'd find something like this useful?
>> - who'd like to give talks, and on what?
>> - who'd like to hear talks, and on what?
>> - who'd bring colleagues along?
>> - any thoughts on format, target audience and so on
>>
>> I understand the start would be a few months off.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [python-uk] Python evening talks in London

[Michael Foord]

Tim Golden wrote:
> Michael Foord wrote:
>   
>> Mike Pentney wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi, Andy.
>>>
>>> I've been using Python off and on for about 18 months or so.
>>> I'd be very interested in attending. I don't (unfortunately)
>>> have any cutting edge applications to talk about yet, but I'm
>>> always interested in learning what other people are doing.
>>> My particular interests would be GUI frameworks, Python 3000,
>>> applications of Python (especially engineering, scientific
>>> and financial), and web frameworks. Plus of course it is
>>> always good to meet other Python users.
>>>
>>> If the IET venue doesn't work out for any reason, the Institute
>>> of Physics also have good facilities at 76 Portland Place. Probably
>>> not free, but not too expensive either.
>>>   
>>>   
>>  From a socialising point of view, the Python meetups that Simon 
>> Brunning organises are fantastic. :-)
>> 
>
> Very true, but if these talks take off I see them as a slightly
> different format / style which may well suit some people better.
> (And we can always go along to the pub afterwards!)
>   
Yep. :-)

The Python meetups are great socially, but not so good for team coding 
or demos.

Michael


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Re: [python-uk] Python evening talks in London

[Michael Grazebrook]

I'm an IET member and attend their lectures occasionally. It's part of
the the Institute of Engineering Technology's mission to put on the
sort of presentations and lectures we'd like. So we're helping with
their mission. If you don't know it, the IET is the engineer's
equivalent of the institute of chartered accountants or the law
society. It's the body which puts C. Eng after your name. But a
lot more too.

The venue is great, both location and facilities. The London group puts
on a free evening lecture once per month and monthly lunchtime lecture.
We would add to these, not replace them. Take a look at the current
programme (and by all means pay it a visit!): 
http://www.theiet.org/events/calendar/
Check the box for "Include events from Local Networks"
A typical evening lecture has pre-lecture food & soft drinks from
5:30. Then about an hour of lecture. Then a glass and a bit of
networking after the event. All (usually) free. The IET is the very
essence of the 19th century learned society, a forum for techies to get
together, share ideas and do some networking.

This would be a completely different kind of event from the pub
meet-ups. It's up to us to propose the format. It doesn't have to be
the same as what the IET already does. We could put on lectures. Or we
could put on tutorials, where everyone's asked to bring a laptop and
the material's distributed through their wireless network so we can try
it out during the tutorial. Or we could stage discussion meetings. Or
some mix of the above. The style is up to us.

If you're giving a talk, advertising isn't allowed. By all means hand
out your business card over a glass during the networking part of the
event. And of course you have the platform because of what you're doing
in the real world, no need to hide it. The lecture notes and codes
samples which the IET customarily posts on its web site after the talk
might even include your company contact details. But don't give a sales
pitch. 

We'd probably want to have our sessions clash with some other stream of
lectures: it costs money to keep the building open during an evening.
But there's a huge capacity, so space and numbers are not a problem. We
can take over a different lecture theatre from the other event.

The professional networks present their budgets at the end of this
month, so we need to sketch out what we want to do quickly. 




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Re: [python-uk] Python evening talks in London

[Michael Grazebrook]

Andy Robinson wrote:
>  
> Michael Foord wrote:
>   
>> There are lots of banks, hedge funds and other companies that now 
>> develop with Python. It would be nice to find a way of reaching them 
>> (and finding out what they would like to learn about). Perhaps spamming 
>> all the London companies that advertise on the Python job board ?
>> 
The Belgian bank / hedge fund KBC are likely to be interested. They use 
a good deal of python, and were interested when I suggested it to them a 
few months ago. No idea how to put the word out more generally though.

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Re: [python-uk] Python evening talks in London

[Michael Foord]

Talks, tutorials, discussions and sprints all sound like interesting 
activities. Once a month sounds fine.

How firm do proposals need to be ?

When do 'we' propose starting (first event) ?
How far in advance do we need to produce a definite schedule for ?
How many people do we need on any 'official organisers committee' ?
Would we need to have individuals to cover practical responsibilities on 
site ? (How many, what responsibilities)

Does anyone know the answer to these questions ? ;-)

I believe the PSF is considering what support to give to local user 
groups (in terms of materials and financial support), so that may be 
worth exploring if necessary.

Michael Foord


Michael Grazebrook wrote:
> I'm an IET member and attend their lectures occasionally. It's part of 
> the the Institute of Engineering Technology's mission to put on the 
> sort of presentations and lectures we'd like. So we're helping with 
> their mission. If you don't know it, the IET is the engineer's 
> equivalent of the institute of chartered accountants or the law 
> society. It's the body which puts /C. Eng/ after your name. But a lot 
> more too.
>
> The venue is great, both location and facilities. The London group 
> puts on a free evening lecture once per month and monthly lunchtime 
> lecture. We would add to these, not replace them. Take a look at the 
> current programme (and by all means pay it a visit!):
> http://www.theiet.org/events/calendar/
> Check the box for "Include events from Local Networks"
> A typical evening lecture has pre-lecture food & soft drinks from 
> 5:30. Then about an hour of lecture. Then a glass and a bit of 
> networking after the event. All (usually) free. The IET is the very 
> essence of the 19th century learned society, a forum for techies to 
> get together, share ideas and do some networking.
>
> This would be a completely different kind of event from the pub 
> meet-ups. It's up to us to propose the format. It doesn't have to be 
> the same as what the IET already does. We could put on lectures. Or we 
> could put on tutorials, where everyone's asked to bring a laptop and 
> the material's distributed through their wireless network so we can 
> try it out during the tutorial. Or we could stage discussion meetings. 
> Or some mix of the above. The style is up to us.
>
> If you're giving a talk, advertising isn't allowed. By all means hand 
> out your business card over a glass during the networking part of the 
> event. And of course you have the platform because of what you're 
> doing in the real world, no need to hide it. The lecture notes and 
> codes samples which the IET customarily posts on its web site after 
> the talk might even include your company contact details. But don't 
> give a sales pitch.
>
> We'd probably want to have our sessions clash with some other stream 
> of lectures: it costs money to keep the building open during an 
> evening. But there's a huge capacity, so space and numbers are not a 
> problem. We can take over a different lecture theatre from the other 
> event.
>
> The professional networks present their budgets at the end of this 
> month, so we need to sketch out what we want to do quickly.
>
>
> 
>
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[python-uk] Python lecture series

[Michael Grazebrook]

I talked to Xenophon Christolou who runs the London IET group about the
idea of putting on some Python events. He was very supportive.

I was expecting we'd have to plan months ahead, but we're in luck - if
WE Can act fast enough! A speaker cancelled for the 11th April. For
this one, we'd need to put on an event of reasonably general appeal.
But remember, this is THE learned society  for engineering, so our
audience is technically literate. If we rough out more than one
proposal, we can always go for the others later. 

The event proposals are pretty much what you'd see posted on the IET
web-site:
http://www.iee.org/OnComms/Branches/UK/england/SEastE/london/Events/april.cfm

How do we want to proceed? Apart from quickly to seize the
moment?

A suggestion - anyone prepared to give a presentation should put
together a few words in more or less the same format as the IEE events
calendar over the course of this week. We can let Xenophon decide which
might have the widest appeal for the 11th, or vote on it ourselves, up
to you. And the rest can come later, planned and publicised in more
leisure.



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Re: [python-uk] Python evening talks in London: Ten lines of code

[Michael Grazebrook]

Allow me a trip into fantasy land. I'd like to play with an idea for a
lecture of broad appeal suitable for the 11th, where we addresses a
wider audience of non-Python users. What do you think?

Ten lines of code - Python's power
Lecture by ???, Michael Grazebrook, and ???
Date & Time: 11th April 2007
Networking and refreshments 17:30 - 18:30.
Lecture: 18:30 - 20:00
Networking and Wine reception 20:00 - 22:00
Cost: Free
Venue: The IET, Savoy Place, London, WC2R 0BL

Python is a superb language for the casual user. Yet it's also robust
enough to run business on. This talk is aimed at people who've never
used Python before, to show how to do simple but powerful things with
it. It's also about protecting the fish in Dad's pond.
This talk presents five small programs, each
in less than ten lines of code, which you could easily adapt:

  A program to grab (?the event calendar from
the IET web-site? - some web page) and put it into Excel
  Driving some hardware from a simple
USB-driven bread-board

  A simple web server
  A simple Windows user interface using WMI

  Putting it together - a remote application
with hardware to protect dad's fish


Bring a lap-top if you want. After the
lecture, we'll retire to the IET bar. We'll have experienced Python
users on hand to help you try out the demos and get up to speed. You
may also get to meet some of the authors of Python text books and
packages, who are proposing to put on some talks on more advanced
topics later in the year.

Python is also a powerful language robust
enough that organisations from banks to internet companies run major
systems with it. But that's a topic for another day.
Now I'm a Python beginner, only a few months professional
experience. I know some of what I propose is possible. And I've written
some of these components. I've never used WMI and never used the  Excel
interface (though I want to). I'm wondering if one or two of you could
share the duty of being the speaker.  3 speakers with 15 minutes each
plus questions seems less daunting than doing the whole talk on my own.


I'm also thinking we might use it as a networking event to see what
the interest is like and put together more meaty proposals for more
specialised themes. Would you lot turn up even though the content isn't
advanced?
I think I should also explain the bit about "protecting the fish in
dad's pond". It relates to my present to my father. He has a pond with
a boat and some fish in it. He likes his fish and he doesn't like the
heron which eats them. So we thought it would be fun to set up a
steerable web-cam which you could operate from anywhere. Then do
something to scare the heron if we see it (make a noise? fire a water
pistol? we haven't built it yet). So my present was a copy of Python, a
couple of servos and a USB interface board from Maplin. I'm off home
tomorrow (Sunday) to see if we can make it happen ...

My fear is that this rather trivial stuff would not attract you lot
- and if we're to make this regular, we need to prove that enough
people want it to get in good audiences. After the lecture, I want to
do some "market research" on what people want. This would be an
excellent forum for us to thrash out in more detail what we want to do
with a full monthly time slot. Note that we won't get the main lecture
theatre most of the time, as we will on the 11th. The plan is to run in
parallel with other events, because the building will be already
staffed and the nibbles laid out.

Anyone is welcome to call me on 020 73761337 or 07713 02580 (please
call out of business hours).
What do you think? 



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Re: [python-uk] Python evening talks in London: Ten lines of code

[Michael Foord]

Tim Golden wrote:
> Michael Grazebrook wrote:
> [snip..]
>
>
> If you're really after an interface builder, I know
> from his blog that Michael Foord has done stuff with
> IronPython and the .NET Windows Forms stuff, so maybe
> he could step forward. (But I'll leave that up to him)
I'm very interested in these talks, but I'm afraid I'm stacked out for 
the next few months. :-(

After that I'd love to help with some talks.

Michael
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Re: [python-uk] Python evening talks in London: Ten lines of code

[Michael Grazebrook]

@Tim
Nobody has volunteered off-line. I reckon you volunteered! Thanks. I'm
going to try to persuade Andy Robinson to do 10 minutes if I can, but
he's on holiday this week.  

The proposal I'm making is so basic (in Python terms) that if the worst
came to the worst I could do it myself, despite my inexperience. But
that would rather waste the opportunity. I'm comfortable with 3
speakers, max 5 but that's harder to coordinate. My current contract
ends on 2nd April so I'll have more flexibility in my time to prepare. 

The concept for this first lecture is several tiny programmes. They
don't have to be those I proposed. It had crossed my mind that a
potential future speaker might present a 10 line demo and use it as a
sales pitch for a later lecture or tutorial.

Tim, you're absolutely right that WMI isn't what I thought it is. I've
only used the TK package (old habits) and want to do better! Would you
like to meet up or 'phone?

Tim Golden wrote:

   
Pete Ryland wrote:
  
  
Funnily enough, my company's business revolves around a "discovery
engine" which is entirely written in python.  It uses wmi, ssh, snmp
and other technologies to find and gather information from customers'
server estates.  We use omniORB (it's developer works for us),
BerkeleyDB, and a whole host of other technologies.  Perhaps I could
get some of our engineers to present some talks too.  I'm sure one of
them can explain wmi too!

  
  
I think I must have met you or one of your colleagues
at one of the London Python meetups some months ago,
at the Bank of England place. (And, I think, had
some email correspondence with someone as well). Glad
to hear that WMI is getting used out there, although
ironically I hardly use it myself these days! (Out of
interest, do you use my module or have you rolled your
own?)

But this is not going to buy the baby a new hat (to
coin a phrase). Michael G: has anyone come forward
privately with definite offers of help? We obviously
have to get this moving if we're going to fit into
this cancellation. Has anyone come forward either
to flesh out your spec. or to offer an alternative?

TJG
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Re: [python-uk] PyCamp UK

[Michael Sparks]

Hi Doug,


On Tuesday 20 March 2007 11:24, Doug Winter wrote:
> There was a lot of talk of this in early Feb, but then it's all gone
> quiet.  Are things "happening" or has it died a death?  Is there
> anything we can do to help it happen?

It hasn't died a death, I've had a preliminary chat with the potential venue, 
and it looks good - they're happy with the idea. I'm suggesting the first 
PyCamp be a relatively modest affair, which also has the benefit of low cost.

Since clearly this would work better if I posted details, I'll set up a small 
wiki at some point either today or tomorrow, and post about it again then to 
start moving things forward.

Many thanks for prodding :-)


Michael.
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[python-uk] BBC Research, Kamaelia & Google's Summer of Code 2007

[Michael Sparks]

Hi,


We're participating in Google's Summer of Code as a mentor organisation
again, and I thought it worth spreading some extra publicity on mailing lists,
I'm on that I think might have some interested people. (I perhaps should've 
sent this sooner!)

* What's Google Summer of Code?

Essentially it's Google paying students to work on open source projects and
being mentored in those projects, producing useful code and learning useful
skills. Part of the aim is to increase the number of people bitten by the
open source bug :-)

* How is BBC Research/ Kamaelia involved?

Like last year we're a mentor organisation, Kamaelia is the open source
project that project applications are invited for. It's aim is to make highly
concurrent systems natural to create and simple to maintain. (given a choice
of forces the we choose the latter) We seem to be having some success in this
and have a number of systems we've built using Kamaelia. Kamaelia is
primarily focussed around building networked, multimedia systems, tools and
applications, however Kamaelia is a generic component framework & toolset.
The current implementation is in python, but the approach and concepts are
portable with a proof of concept in python.

Our project ideas and guidance page is here:
   * http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/SummerOfCode2007

However, we're also interested other ideas beyond that, especially systems
that use Kamaelia that can act as exemplars. To give an idea of potential
scope, a list of components can be found here:
   * http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Components

* Who can Apply ?

You need to be a student now, or in september enrolled at a university degree
course or similar level of institution/degree.

* When is the deadline ?

Monday midnight.

* Url?

http://code.google.com/soc/

Please feel free to forward this to any students or student groups you would
find this interesting ! :-)

Regards,


Michael.
--
Michael Sparks, Senior Research Engineer, BBC Research, Technology Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Kamaelia Project Lead, http://kamaelia.sf.net/

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