[opensource-dev] latest viewer-development checkout doesn't build...

[Lance Corrimal]

... it tries do download some of the prebuild libraries by scp which 
of course dies at LL's external firewall...

any reason for this?

bye,
LC

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[opensource-dev] What is the expected behaviour when double clicking floater edges? (VWR-23452)

[Boroondas Gupte]

 Personally, I didn't expect double clicking the edges or corners of a
resizeable floater to do anything at all, so I didn't do it until it
happened to me yesterday by accident. I was surprised to see the floater
change size and figured I must have been moving the mouse, thus dragging
the edge. But when trying again, noticed this also happened when the
mouse pointer wasn't moving at all, so I filed bug VWR-23452
.

Further investigation revealed that the double clicked edge became
aligned to the edges of other floaters or the edge of the Second Life
window. While unexpected to me, this might be useful for arranging
floaters and doesn't look like a bug but rather like a deliberately
coded feature.

Is it? I didn't know about this yet, but it looks like this was already
present in 1.23.

Cheers,
Boroondas
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Re: [opensource-dev] latest viewer-development checkout doesn't build...

[WolfPup Lowenhar]

Actually there is a jira on this issue generated last night.

 

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23455

 

 

 

From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
[mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Lance
Corrimal
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 5:10 AM
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Subject: [opensource-dev] latest viewer-development checkout doesn't
build...

 

... it tries do download some of the prebuild libraries by scp which
of course dies at LL's external firewall...

any reason for this?

bye,
LC

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privileges 

  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1136 / Virus Database: 422/3199 - Release Date: 10/15/10

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Re: [opensource-dev] Project-MESH viewer

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

  On 2010-10-15 18:00, Trilo Byte wrote:
> But on the flipside, the Project MESH viewer has working shadows for nVidia 
> GPU's on Mac (never happened before on any known config), and anti-aliasing's 
> fixed.  If we could get that bit out of the mesh viewer and into the 2.2 
> pipeline, we'd really be in great shape IMO.

The AA fix is in the 2.2 pipeline (I did that merge) ... not sure about 
the other (since I don't know which change that was).

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Re: [opensource-dev] O.O Display name code DROP!

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

 On 2010-10-15 19:22, Boroondas Gupte wrote:

On 10/16/2010 12:59 AM, SuezanneC Baskerville wrote:
What happened to that jira issue? It appears to have been moved to 
SEC or something like that.
It has been moved to DN-179 
. (I guess "DN" stands for 
"display names".) Why we can't see that jira project although display 
names has been on Aditi for some while now, I don't know.


The fact that it became invisible when assigned to the development team 
is a configuration error.  I've put in a request for a fix, and expect 
that it will be done in the next few days (the person who normally makes 
such changes returns from vacation on Monday, I think).


As Boroondas noted, the part of that issue that broke the creation of 
personal chat logs has been fixed and integrated into the current 
development viewer.


The issue of whether or not to create .txt and/or .llsd logs is being 
tracked separately:


https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-22940

Please don't add comments to that issue that amount to just agreeing 
with or disagreeing with one or another of the points already made there 
(this list is an ok place for that, if you feel you must do it 
somewhere).  The Jira tracker isn't a forum, and comments like that 
don't add much value.  The various points of view are pretty well 
represented there now.

This issue won't be dropped... watch this thread and the issue for updates.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Project-MESH viewer

[Ann Otoole]

Are you planning to enable shine on prims with lighting/shadows on or is full 
lighting effects disable shininess something we need to accept as permanent and 
texture around? (Note that lighting in Kirstens also disables shine)




From: Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Sat, October 16, 2010 11:01:38 AM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Project-MESH viewer

  On 2010-10-15 18:00, Trilo Byte wrote:
> But on the flipside, the Project MESH viewer has working shadows for nVidia 
>GPU's on Mac (never happened before on any known config), and anti-aliasing's 
>fixed.  If we could get that bit out of the mesh viewer and into the 2.2 
>pipeline, we'd really be in great shape IMO.

The AA fix is in the 2.2 pipeline (I did that merge) ... not sure about 
the other (since I don't know which change that was).

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Re: [opensource-dev] Project-MESH viewer

[Geenz Spad]

Shiny does work with the deferred renderer (or Lighting and Shadows as it's
now called in the Mesh viewer).  It's simply handled differently; it
reflects light in the form of what's known as specular reflectance, instead
of reflecting the sky environment (at one point it reflected both around
2008 and 2009).  Different shiny settings effects the overall brightness and
distribution of the specular exponent.

On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Ann Otoole wrote:

> Are you planning to enable shine on prims with lighting/shadows on or is
> full lighting effects disable shininess something we need to accept as
> permanent and texture around? (Note that lighting in Kirstens also disables
> shine)
>
> --
> *From:* Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) 
> *To:* opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> *Sent:* Sat, October 16, 2010 11:01:38 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] Project-MESH viewer
>
>   On 2010-10-15 18:00, Trilo Byte wrote:
> > But on the flipside, the Project MESH viewer has working shadows for
> nVidia GPU's on Mac (never happened before on any known config), and
> anti-aliasing's fixed.  If we could get that bit out of the mesh viewer and
> into the 2.2 pipeline, we'd really be in great shape IMO.
>
> The AA fix is in the 2.2 pipeline (I did that merge) ... not sure about
> the other (since I don't know which change that was).
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] O.O Display name code DROP!

[Argent Stonecutter]

On 2010-10-15, at 16:36, Ricky wrote:
> All that's needed is a linked XSL stylesheet to make it just as easy
> to read as the text files were.

1. It's not in XML, it's in notation format. This is a good thing, because...
2. LLSD is really badly designed from the point of XSL transformations. Instead 
of having the type and value as attributes, they have them in completely 
separate tags, so the ordering of tags matters so you have to use streaming 
XSLT.
3. There are more tools people use for browsing and reading log files than text 
editors. If you can't grep it, for example, it's junk.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Project-MESH viewer

[Ann Otoole]

There is no shine at all when lighting/shadows is enabled. Sorry. None 
whatsoever. Full shine black is just flat black. Full shine white is just flat 
white. Full shine textures are just the textures. It is completely broken. And 
this, in turn, "breaks content" that was sold with the expectation it was shiny.

On the bright side it might make people rely less on shine to hide things that 
cannot be textured properly (sculpts generated from a wad of prims) or to cover 
a lack of decent texturing. I'm already discontinuing use of shine as much as 
possible because of this content breaker.

And yes we will need the other aspects of texturing for mesh as soon as 
possible 
if possible. Wet looking skin with bulging veins on Cthu'lhu would indeed be 
awesome.

But shine was broken once with windlight. Now it has been obliterated with 
deferred rendering.

I don't expect to live long enough to see real time true reflectivity in Second 
Life. Like latex that actually reflects. Would be nice but there are miles and 
miles to go to get that gpu capability for real time translated to opengl and 
then farther to go to show up in Second life. Or third life or whatever this 
concept is called at that point 50 years from now if there is still an internet 
(doubtful) and civilians are allowed to be in possession of computers beyond 
what they are "chipped" with.






From: Geenz Spad 
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Sat, October 16, 2010 12:41:48 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Project-MESH viewer

Shiny does work with the deferred renderer (or Lighting and Shadows as it's now 
called in the Mesh viewer).  It's simply handled differently; it reflects light 
in the form of what's known as specular reflectance, instead of reflecting the 
sky environment (at one point it reflected both around 2008 and 2009). 
 Different shiny settings effects the overall brightness and distribution of 
the 
specular exponent.


On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Ann Otoole  wrote:

Are you planning to enable shine on prims with lighting/shadows on or is full 
lighting effects disable shininess something we need to accept as permanent and 
texture around? (Note that lighting in Kirstens also disables shine)
>
>
>

From: Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) 
>To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
>Sent: Sat, October 16, 2010 11:01:38 AM
>Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Project-MESH viewer
>
>
>   On 2010-10-15 18:00, Trilo Byte wrote:
>> But on the flipside, the Project MESH viewer has working shadows for nVidia 
>>GPU's on Mac (never happened before on any known config), and anti-aliasing's 
>>fixed.  If we could get that bit out of the mesh viewer and into the 2.2 
>>pipeline, we'd really be in great shape IMO.
>
>The AA fix is in the 2.2 pipeline (I did that merge) ... not sure about 
>the other (since I don't know which change that was).
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] What is the expected behaviour when double clicking floater edges? (VWR-23452)

[Nexii Malthus]

Oh, wow, that's cool. Never knew that too.

- Nexii

On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Boroondas Gupte <
slli...@boroon.dasgupta.ch> wrote:

>  Personally, I didn't expect double clicking the edges or corners of a
> resizeable floater to do anything at all, so I didn't do it until it
> happened to me yesterday by accident. I was surprised to see the floater
> change size and figured I must have been moving the mouse, thus dragging the
> edge. But when trying again, noticed this also happened when the mouse
> pointer wasn't moving at all, so I filed bug 
> VWR-23452
> .
>
> Further investigation revealed that the double clicked edge became aligned
> to the edges of other floaters or the edge of the Second Life window. While
> unexpected to me, this might be useful for arranging floaters and doesn't
> look like a bug but rather like a deliberately coded feature.
>
> Is it? I didn't know about this yet, but it looks like this was already
> present in 1.23.
>
> Cheers,
> Boroondas
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Project-MESH viewer

[leliel]

On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Ann Otoole  wrote:
> There is no shine at all when lighting/shadows is enabled. Sorry. None
> whatsoever. Full shine black is just flat black. Full shine white is just
> flat white. Full shine textures are just the textures. It is completely
> broken. And this, in turn, "breaks content" that was sold with the
> expectation it was shiny.

Shiny enables specular highlights, not reflections. Physically the two
are the same thing, but in raster based graphics they are separate.
That weird metallic colored blob we had before was just a quick and
dirt hack, with lighting & shadows enabled the viewer will do true
specular highlights which depend on the angle of the light and the
camera in order to be visible.

> I don't expect to live long enough to see real time true reflectivity in
> Second Life. Like latex that actually reflects. Would be nice but there are
> miles and miles to go to get that gpu capability for real time translated to
> opengl and then farther to go to show up in Second life. Or third life or
> whatever this concept is called at that point 50 years from now if there is
> still an internet (doubtful) and civilians are allowed to be in possession
> of computers beyond what they are "chipped" with.

OpenGL has been able to do reflections for a long time now, it's just
a very demanding process since you have to render the scene from the
point of view of each reflective object in addition to the camera's
view point. Older games would cheat and just render one cube map for
the whole scene and use it for all reflections, but that may not be
acceptable in sl.

Once again, the dynamic, user made content in sl is what holds us
back. There is no way to limit the number of reflective objects in
view and using more then a hand full would bring all but the current
top of the line cards to their knees. What we need is fine grain
control over how objects are rendered instead of just everything in
the view plain been drawn in full (LOD'd) detail. The shadow maps & GI
code does this with a distance based cut off. Having a distance / size
cut off for reflections would help a lot with any over use of them.
Adding in full impostors for all objects would be even better.

Over all I'd say the viewer needs to start doing some serious resource
management if we ever want to have a draw distance measured in
kilometers.
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[opensource-dev] question

[Erin Mallory]

Why is it 2.0 seems to autodecline inventory for most people if they crash or 
get logged out before they can accept the inventory?  this is really annoying.  
is there a way to change that somewhere?  Im sick of throwing away money and 
losing gifts because stuff doesn't get delivered. 
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[opensource-dev] Reflections in SL. Re: Project-MESH viewer

[Argent Stonecutter]

On 2010-10-16, at 16:58, leliel wrote:
> OpenGL has been able to do reflections for a long time now, it's just
> a very demanding process since you have to render the scene from the
> point of view of each reflective object in addition to the camera's
> view point. Older games would cheat and just render one cube map for
> the whole scene and use it for all reflections, but that may not be
> acceptable in sl.

Sure it is. They had it working on First Look 1.13.57575. The source code for 
which is in the old viewer archives. It was nerfed some (the cube map was 
reduced to about 32x32) but the RenderDynamicReflections option was still there 
right up to Windlight. People LOVED it, particularly in rave-style clubs.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Reflections in SL. Re: Project-MESH viewer

[SuezanneC Baskerville]

I'd be quite content with mirror surfaces that only, for example, reflected
avatars.

I think people would enjoy mirrors no matter how much restriction had to be
placed on them to keep them from hogging excess resources.

On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 5:27 PM, Argent Stonecutter  wrote:

> On 2010-10-16, at 16:58, leliel wrote:
> > OpenGL has been able to do reflections for a long time now, it's just
> > a very demanding process since you have to render the scene from the
> > point of view of each reflective object in addition to the camera's
> > view point. Older games would cheat and just render one cube map for
> > the whole scene and use it for all reflections, but that may not be
> > acceptable in sl.
>
> Sure it is. They had it working on First Look 1.13.57575. The source code
> for which is in the old viewer archives. It was nerfed some (the cube map
> was reduced to about 32x32) but the RenderDynamicReflections option was
> still there right up to Windlight. People LOVED it, particularly in
> rave-style clubs.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Reflections in SL. Re: Project-MESH viewer

[Argent Stonecutter]

On 2010-10-16, at 17:31, SuezanneC Baskerville wrote:
> I'd be quite content with mirror surfaces that only, for example, reflected 
> avatars. 

They had a lot better than that...

http://www.sluniverse.com/pics/pic.aspx?id=139865

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Re: [opensource-dev] Reflections in SL. Re: Project-MESH viewer

[leliel]

On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 3:31 PM, SuezanneC Baskerville
 wrote:
> I'd be quite content with mirror surfaces that only, for example, reflected
> avatars.
>
> I think people would enjoy mirrors no matter how much restriction had to be
> placed on them to keep them from hogging excess resources.

I suppose low quality reflections are better then nothing. But I think
LL has their hands full with other things at the moment. If we want
them we'll have to code them up ourselves. Maybe adding in DoF, HDR,
and volumetric lighting while we're at it. ^.^
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Re: [opensource-dev] Reflections in SL. Re: Project-MESH viewer

[Dave Booth]

  On 10/16/2010 18:00, Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> On 2010-10-16, at 17:31, SuezanneC Baskerville wrote:
>> I'd be quite content with mirror surfaces that only, for example, reflected 
>> avatars.
> They had a lot better than that...
>
> http://www.sluniverse.com/pics/pic.aspx?id=139865
>
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Yeah, windlight added so much but we lost a lot at the same time - Thats 
one of the biggies we lost. That single image of Argents has more 
"reality" to it than we'll ever see in a current viewer no matter how 
far we tweak our windlight settings or how carefully we create and 
texture our meshes Just what was it about introducing windlight that 
required the nerfing of that kind of awesome anyway?
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Re: [opensource-dev] Reflections in SL. Re: Project-MESH viewer

[Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)]

  On 2010-10-16 19:04, leliel wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 3:31 PM, SuezanneC Baskerville
>   wrote:
>> I'd be quite content with mirror surfaces that only, for example, reflected
>> avatars.
>>
>> I think people would enjoy mirrors no matter how much restriction had to be
>> placed on them to keep them from hogging excess resources.
> I suppose low quality reflections are better then nothing. But I think
> LL has their hands full with other things at the moment. If we want
> them we'll have to code them up ourselves.

Now there's a sentiment I can get behind !   :-)


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Re: [opensource-dev] Reflections in SL. Re: Project-MESH viewer

[leliel]

On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)
 wrote:
>  On 2010-10-16 19:04, leliel wrote:
>> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 3:31 PM, SuezanneC Baskerville
>>   wrote:
>>> I'd be quite content with mirror surfaces that only, for example, reflected
>>> avatars.
>>>
>>> I think people would enjoy mirrors no matter how much restriction had to be
>>> placed on them to keep them from hogging excess resources.
>> I suppose low quality reflections are better then nothing. But I think
>> LL has their hands full with other things at the moment. If we want
>> them we'll have to code them up ourselves.
>
> Now there's a sentiment I can get behind !   :-)

Make it so people don't have to jump through hoops to build the viewer
and patches may start coming in more frequently. O.o
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Re: [opensource-dev] Reflections in SL. Re: Project-MESH viewer

[Jay Reynolds Freeman]

Now, wouldn't the vampire folks be delighted with a mirror that
had a "don't reflect my avatar" option ...

--  Jay Reynolds Freeman
-
jay_reynolds_free...@mac.com
http://web.mac.com/jay_reynolds_freeman (personal web site)


On Oct 16, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:

 On 2010-10-16 19:04, leliel wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 3:31 PM, SuezanneC Baskerville
>   wrote:
>> I'd be quite content with mirror surfaces that only, for example, reflected
>> avatars.
>> 
>> I think people would enjoy mirrors no matter how much restriction had to be
>> placed on them to keep them from hogging excess resources.
> I suppose low quality reflections are better then nothing. But I think
> LL has their hands full with other things at the moment. If we want
> them we'll have to code them up ourselves.

Now there's a sentiment I can get behind !   :-)


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[opensource-dev] Property Lines gone mad in Development Viewer 2.2.1 (212233)

[SuezanneC Baskerville]

Anyone seen any problems with the property lines in the latest Development
Viewer?

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23464

https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/attachment/44866/SL+-+property+lines+gone+mad+450.jpg


Property lines in Development Viewer 2.2.1 (212233) are behaving abnormally.
They are not where property lines should be.

These lines do appear and disappear depending on the Show Property Lines
setting.

First: I turned on Show Property Lines.

Bug Observed: red lines, not on property boundaries, appear, more than there
should be, extending into the air in some cases.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Project-MESH viewer

[Jonathan Goodman]

Case in point... http://www.flickr.com/photos/50275...@n04/5079086973/ 
The floors have Shiny set to medium.


leliel wrote:

On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Ann Otoole  wrote:

There is no shine at all when lighting/shadows is enabled. Sorry. None
whatsoever. Full shine black is just flat black. Full shine white is just
flat white. Full shine textures are just the textures. It is completely
broken. And this, in turn, "breaks content" that was sold with the
expectation it was shiny.


Shiny enables specular highlights, not reflections. Physically the two
are the same thing, but in raster based graphics they are separate.
That weird metallic colored blob we had before was just a quick and
dirt hack, with lighting&  shadows enabled the viewer will do true
specular highlights which depend on the angle of the light and the
camera in order to be visible.


I don't expect to live long enough to see real time true reflectivity in
Second Life. Like latex that actually reflects. Would be nice but there are
miles and miles to go to get that gpu capability for real time translated to
opengl and then farther to go to show up in Second life. Or third life or
whatever this concept is called at that point 50 years from now if there is
still an internet (doubtful) and civilians are allowed to be in possession
of computers beyond what they are "chipped" with.


OpenGL has been able to do reflections for a long time now, it's just
a very demanding process since you have to render the scene from the
point of view of each reflective object in addition to the camera's
view point. Older games would cheat and just render one cube map for
the whole scene and use it for all reflections, but that may not be
acceptable in sl.

Once again, the dynamic, user made content in sl is what holds us
back. There is no way to limit the number of reflective objects in
view and using more then a hand full would bring all but the current
top of the line cards to their knees. What we need is fine grain
control over how objects are rendered instead of just everything in
the view plain been drawn in full (LOD'd) detail. The shadow maps&  GI
code does this with a distance based cut off. Having a distance / size
cut off for reflections would help a lot with any over use of them.
Adding in full impostors for all objects would be even better.

Over all I'd say the viewer needs to start doing some serious resource
management if we ever want to have a draw distance measured in
kilometers.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Project-MESH viewer

[Patnad Babii]

“Or third life orwhatever this concept is called at that point 50 years from 
now if there isstill an internet (doubtful) and civilians are allowed to be in 
possessionof computers beyond what they are "chipped" with.”

We have to all stand together for our rights of free speech, creativity and 
don’t let them implant you chips then we all should be fine in 50 years from 
now. 

Just think about it there a general awakening that is happening, people start 
to realize that the gov has too much power, we just need to take it back.



From: Jonathan Goodman 
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 10:49 PM
To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com 
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Project-MESH viewer

Case in point... http://www.flickr.com/photos/50275...@n04/5079086973/ The 
floors have Shiny set to medium.

leliel wrote: 
On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Ann Otoole mailto:missannoto...@yahoo.com 
wrote:
There is no shine at all when lighting/shadows is enabled. Sorry. None
whatsoever. Full shine black is just flat black. Full shine white is just
flat white. Full shine textures are just the textures. It is completely
broken. And this, in turn, "breaks content" that was sold with the
expectation it was shiny.

Shiny enables specular highlights, not reflections. Physically the two
are the same thing, but in raster based graphics they are separate.
That weird metallic colored blob we had before was just a quick and
dirt hack, with lighting & shadows enabled the viewer will do true
specular highlights which depend on the angle of the light and the
camera in order to be visible.

I don't expect to live long enough to see real time true reflectivity in
Second Life. Like latex that actually reflects. Would be nice but there are
miles and miles to go to get that gpu capability for real time translated to
opengl and then farther to go to show up in Second life. Or third life or
whatever this concept is called at that point 50 years from now if there is
still an internet (doubtful) and civilians are allowed to be in possession
of computers beyond what they are "chipped" with.

OpenGL has been able to do reflections for a long time now, it's just
a very demanding process since you have to render the scene from the
point of view of each reflective object in addition to the camera's
view point. Older games would cheat and just render one cube map for
the whole scene and use it for all reflections, but that may not be
acceptable in sl.

Once again, the dynamic, user made content in sl is what holds us
back. There is no way to limit the number of reflective objects in
view and using more then a hand full would bring all but the current
top of the line cards to their knees. What we need is fine grain
control over how objects are rendered instead of just everything in
the view plain been drawn in full (LOD'd) detail. The shadow maps & GI
code does this with a distance based cut off. Having a distance / size
cut off for reflections would help a lot with any over use of them.
Adding in full impostors for all objects would be even better.

Over all I'd say the viewer needs to start doing some serious resource
management if we ever want to have a draw distance measured in
kilometers.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Reflections in SL. Re: Project-MESH viewer

[Tateru Nino]

On 17/10/2010 10:45 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote:
>On 2010-10-16 19:04, leliel wrote:
>> On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 3:31 PM, SuezanneC Baskerville
>>wrote:
>>> I'd be quite content with mirror surfaces that only, for example, reflected
>>> avatars.
>>>
>>> I think people would enjoy mirrors no matter how much restriction had to be
>>> placed on them to keep them from hogging excess resources.
>> I suppose low quality reflections are better then nothing. But I think
>> LL has their hands full with other things at the moment. If we want
>> them we'll have to code them up ourselves.
> Now there's a sentiment I can get behind !   :-)
>
A year or two ago, I was treated to a demonstration of working mirrors 
in SL. It was an override of Shiny, and I had to install a custom shader 
file to my SL viewer installation directory. As far as I know, the 
project died because - in order to work - it needs a bit or a texture 
property flag from Linden lab on the server-side, otherwise it is 
"surprising or unexpected" functionality that potentially breaks 
content, and thus is a no-no under the TPVP.
-- 

Tateru Nino
http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/

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Re: [opensource-dev] O.O Display name code DROP!

[Ricky]

I agree, the XML notation is far from perfect (see some of my posts
last year about the subject,) however I consider it better than either
text or this almost-JSON notation for a variety of reasons, all laid
out in https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23451 for ease of
reference.

Assuming that the order of fields is fixed, a fair assumption as LLSD
requires it I believe, then the XSLT isn't so bad, and a prototype has
already been made.

On the subject of using other standard tools, such as
grep/sed/awk/etc., I fully agree.  This is why I'd fight against any
binary or compressed format.  However, no such proposal has been made.
 All formats so far don't have any less information in any less
accessible of a format than the text files.  If the file doesn't have
proper line breaks, then that's another issue.  Albeit one fairly
easily resolved by passing it through sed with the right expression.

Ricky
Cron Stardust

On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Argent Stonecutter
 wrote:
>
> On 2010-10-15, at 16:36, Ricky wrote:
>> All that's needed is a linked XSL stylesheet to make it just as easy
>> to read as the text files were.
>
> 1. It's not in XML, it's in notation format. This is a good thing, because...
> 2. LLSD is really badly designed from the point of XSL transformations. 
> Instead of having the type and value as attributes, they have them in 
> completely separate tags, so the ordering of tags matters so you have to use 
> streaming XSLT.
> 3. There are more tools people use for browsing and reading log files than 
> text editors. If you can't grep it, for example, it's junk.
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