Re: [opensource-dev] SL 2.0 latest release notes where??

[Philippe (Merov) Bossut]

Hi,

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Lance Corrimal
wrote:

>
> - the snowglobe rebranded source does not build on linux without
> manual intervention
> - the resulting binary does not work properly (complains about a
> broken llwebkit plugin on startup & every time you encounter html on a
> prim)
>


I need to re-sync the current Snowglobe 2.0 with the current Viewer 2.0
branch. Right now, this process is "manual" and there has been some problems
with syncing up with llqtwebkit.



> in light of the fact that there IS a linux binary for 2.0 beta, which
> works (within the limits of 2.0 beta), without showing the problems
> that I've been experiencing with the resulting binary from building
> snowglobe 2.0, I can safely assume that there are bigger differences
> between snowglobe 2.0 and secondlife 2.0 beta than just a few string
> constants in llversionviever.h... way bigger.
>
>
I don't know how to say it but your assumption is plainly untrue. What is
true (and I apologize for that) is that the export syncing process is not
yet well oiled. I'll be working on just that this week. Thanks for your
patience in the meantime.

Cheers,
- Merov
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Re: [opensource-dev] SL 2.0 latest release notes where??

[Lance Corrimal]

Am Dienstag, 2. März 2010 09:07:58 schrieb Philippe (Merov) Bossut:

> I don't know how to say it but your assumption is plainly untrue. What is
> true (and I apologize for that) is that the export syncing process is not
> yet well oiled. I'll be working on just that this week. Thanks for your
> patience in the meantime.


great, thanks ;)
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[opensource-dev] Snowglobe as an mixed reality platform

[Kantonen Tuomas]

Hello,

I've been working on a project using Second Life as a platform to 
develop mixed reality teleconferencing/-collaboration system. A brief 
intro about the project can be found at
http://www.vtt.fi/multimedia/projects/mrconference.html
and a video demo of our work so far is at 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNB0_c-5TSk .

The project, continuing also in 2010, is split into two parts: 
overlaying a video image with avatars and virtual objects (augmented 
reality; AR) and using hand and head gestures to control avatars and 
interact with virtual objects (augmented virtuality; AV).

We have agreed to release our work as open source. However, lack of 
continuous "forward porting" would soon render the released code
unusable. It would therefore be better to have some parts of our
work incorporated into the Snowglobe sources.

I've tried to keep all our modifications as small as possible. The 
project is separated to our own ACME (Augmented Collaboration in Mixed
Environments) module, vanilla Snowglobe code and an interface between 
the two. 

I'd be ready to invest some time to implement a generic AR/AV support
for Snowglobe if we could come up with a design that could be accepted
by the Snowglobe developers. This would allow anyone to use Snowglobe
as AR/AV research platform, with or without our software.

--
- Tuomas Kantonen, VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe as an mixed reality platform

[Moriz Gupte]

This is very neat. Still a bit bulky for immediate use but a great
foundation for future.
R

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 3:31 AM, Kantonen Tuomas wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I've been working on a project using Second Life as a platform to
> develop mixed reality teleconferencing/-collaboration system. A brief
> intro about the project can be found at
> http://www.vtt.fi/multimedia/projects/mrconference.html
> and a video demo of our work so far is at
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNB0_c-5TSk .
>
> The project, continuing also in 2010, is split into two parts:
> overlaying a video image with avatars and virtual objects (augmented
> reality; AR) and using hand and head gestures to control avatars and
> interact with virtual objects (augmented virtuality; AV).
>
> We have agreed to release our work as open source. However, lack of
> continuous "forward porting" would soon render the released code
> unusable. It would therefore be better to have some parts of our
> work incorporated into the Snowglobe sources.
>
> I've tried to keep all our modifications as small as possible. The
> project is separated to our own ACME (Augmented Collaboration in Mixed
> Environments) module, vanilla Snowglobe code and an interface between
> the two.
>
> I'd be ready to invest some time to implement a generic AR/AV support
> for Snowglobe if we could come up with a design that could be accepted
> by the Snowglobe developers. This would allow anyone to use Snowglobe
> as AR/AV research platform, with or without our software.
>
> --
> - Tuomas Kantonen, VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland
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-- 
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD Research Assistant Professor Idaho State
University, PocatelloTel: 208-282-5333
More info at http://tr.im/RRamloll
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Re: [opensource-dev] TPV & opensim & physics prediction

[Argent Stonecutter]

On 2010-03-01, at 20:38, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> Being able to distribute physic data about objects in a passive  
> manner has nothing to do with being able to network chat itself in a  
> non-passive manner.

Oh, OK, so you're just talking about it taking days to rez a prim?
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Re: [opensource-dev] TPV & opensim & physics prediction

[Dzonatas Sol]

Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> On 2010-03-01, at 20:38, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
>> Being able to distribute physic data about objects in a passive 
>> manner has nothing to do with being able to network chat itself in a 
>> non-passive manner.
>
> Oh, OK, so you're just talking about it taking days to rez a prim?
>
If someone is scheduled to appear in a sim a week from now, then it 
doesn't matter if it takes 1 to 6 days to download, cache, and rez a 
prim locally on the 7th day of the scheduled meeting.
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Re: [opensource-dev] BSD viewer talk from realXtend. Tuesday, 8:30 AM SLT

[Lawson English]

Lawson English wrote:
> Tuesday's AW groupies meeting will be held an hour early at 8:30 AM PST at
> http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/ThorneBridgeTown/156/130/22
>
>   

Chatlog from meeting:  
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AW_Groupies/Chat_Logs/AWGroupies-2010-03-02


Lawson

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Re: [opensource-dev] TPV & opensim & physics prediction

[Argent Stonecutter]

On 2010-03-02, at 13:25, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> Argent Stonecutter wrote:
>> On 2010-03-01, at 20:38, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
>>> Being able to distribute physic data about objects in a passive  
>>> manner has nothing to do with being able to network chat itself in  
>>> a non-passive manner.

>> Oh, OK, so you're just talking about it taking days to rez a prim?

> If someone is scheduled to appear in a sim a week from now, then it  
> doesn’t matter if it takes 1 to 6 days to download, cache, and rez a  
> prim locally on the 7th day of the scheduled meeting.

Given the way SL works, and the way people use it, this is an  
extremely unlikely scenario:

* You're scheduling a meeting 7 days ahead.
* There's not going to be any need to rez any prims that aren't  
already in the sim at any time during the meeting.
** Or less than 7 days before the meeting.
** Including attachments.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe as an mixed reality platform

[Suzy Deffeyes]

I'm very interested in this work ( full disclosure, IBM is one of the
sponsors of the work), Moriz, I agree that today's head mounted displays are
a bit bulky for widespread use.  It is great foundational work, and there
are some aspects that we could integrate into Snowglobe that would be useful
*today*.  One of those is the gesture recognition code. It's towards the end
of Tuomas' video. It uses a webcam to detect a user nodding yes/no, and then
plays an in world animation based on detecting the gesture.

Merov, once the Snowglobe 2.0 code settles down, can we discuss a way to
have a pluggable framework that people could use for things like AR? Might
make a good topic for a Hippo meeting.
Suzy

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Moriz Gupte  wrote:

> This is very neat. Still a bit bulky for immediate use but a great
> foundation for future.
> R
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 3:31 AM, Kantonen Tuomas wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've been working on a project using Second Life as a platform to
>> develop mixed reality teleconferencing/-collaboration system. A brief
>> intro about the project can be found at
>> http://www.vtt.fi/multimedia/projects/mrconference.html
>> and a video demo of our work so far is at
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNB0_c-5TSk .
>>
>> The project, continuing also in 2010, is split into two parts:
>> overlaying a video image with avatars and virtual objects (augmented
>> reality; AR) and using hand and head gestures to control avatars and
>> interact with virtual objects (augmented virtuality; AV).
>>
>> We have agreed to release our work as open source. However, lack of
>> continuous "forward porting" would soon render the released code
>> unusable. It would therefore be better to have some parts of our
>> work incorporated into the Snowglobe sources.
>>
>> I've tried to keep all our modifications as small as possible. The
>> project is separated to our own ACME (Augmented Collaboration in Mixed
>> Environments) module, vanilla Snowglobe code and an interface between
>> the two.
>>
>> I'd be ready to invest some time to implement a generic AR/AV support
>> for Snowglobe if we could come up with a design that could be accepted
>> by the Snowglobe developers. This would allow anyone to use Snowglobe
>> as AR/AV research platform, with or without our software.
>>
>> --
>> - Tuomas Kantonen, VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland
>> ___
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>> privileges
>>
>
>
>
> --
> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD Research Assistant Professor Idaho State
> University, PocatelloTel: 208-282-5333
> More info at http://tr.im/RRamloll
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Third party viewer policy

[Rob Nelson]

A sidenote:  What do we do to have our existing viewer groups renamed
from one viewer name to another?  File a support ticket or yell at a
specific Linden?  I already have a bunch of people in my FlexLife group,
but I need to rename it to Luna, and I'm not going to go waste L$100 and
another load of advertising to draw the same people back when I'm not
even sure if LL isn't going to force us to rebrand everything again in
the future for an even more obscure reason.

Rob Nelson
Luna Viewer (http://luna-viewer.googlecode.com)

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Re: [opensource-dev] Third party viewer policy

[Soft Linden]

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Rob Nelson  wrote:
> A sidenote:  What do we do to have our existing viewer groups renamed
> from one viewer name to another?  File a support ticket or yell at a
> specific Linden?  I already have a bunch of people in my FlexLife group,
> but I need to rename it to Luna, and I'm not going to go waste L$100 and
> another load of advertising to draw the same people back when I'm not
> even sure if LL isn't going to force us to rebrand everything again in
> the future for an even more obscure reason.

This is a very special case, because we're forcing the group name
change. Have a group owner (not just an officer) send an IM to Soft
Linden with the new name request. I can -only- do this for groups
where we're requiring an established viewer change names for TPV
viewer compliance. I can't take requests for other purposes.
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[opensource-dev] patch porting to SL2

[Tayra Dagostino]

is there a way to port the login database patch to SL2?
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe as an mixed reality platform

[Lawson English]

I'm working on mixing Cobalt with SL via the media plugin. Here's a bit 
of discussion of how it (and future plugins) might work:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion

Lawson

Suzy Deffeyes wrote:
> I'm very interested in this work ( full disclosure, IBM is one of the 
> sponsors of the work), Moriz, I agree that today's head mounted 
> displays are a bit bulky for widespread use.  It is great foundational 
> work, and there are some aspects that we could integrate into 
> Snowglobe that would be useful *today*.  One of those is the gesture 
> recognition code. It's towards the end of Tuomas' video. It uses a 
> webcam to detect a user nodding yes/no, and then plays an in world 
> animation based on detecting the gesture.
>
> Merov, once the Snowglobe 2.0 code settles down, can we discuss a way 
> to have a pluggable framework that people could use for things like 
> AR? Might make a good topic for a Hippo meeting.
> Suzy
>
> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Moriz Gupte  > wrote:
>
> This is very neat. Still a bit bulky for immediate use but a great
> foundation for future.
> R
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 3:31 AM, Kantonen Tuomas
> mailto:tuomas.kanto...@vtt.fi>> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I've been working on a project using Second Life as a platform to
> develop mixed reality teleconferencing/-collaboration system.
> A brief
> intro about the project can be found at
> http://www.vtt.fi/multimedia/projects/mrconference.html
> and a video demo of our work so far is at
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNB0_c-5TSk .
>
> The project, continuing also in 2010, is split into two parts:
> overlaying a video image with avatars and virtual objects
> (augmented
> reality; AR) and using hand and head gestures to control
> avatars and
> interact with virtual objects (augmented virtuality; AV).
>
> We have agreed to release our work as open source. However,
> lack of
> continuous "forward porting" would soon render the released code
> unusable. It would therefore be better to have some parts of our
> work incorporated into the Snowglobe sources.
>
> I've tried to keep all our modifications as small as possible. The
> project is separated to our own ACME (Augmented Collaboration
> in Mixed
> Environments) module, vanilla Snowglobe code and an interface
> between
> the two.
>
> I'd be ready to invest some time to implement a generic AR/AV
> support
> for Snowglobe if we could come up with a design that could be
> accepted
> by the Snowglobe developers. This would allow anyone to use
> Snowglobe
> as AR/AV research platform, with or without our software.
>

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Re: [opensource-dev] TPV & opensim & physics prediction

[Dzonatas Sol]

Argent Stonecutter wrote:
>
>> If someone is scheduled to appear in a sim a week from now, then it 
>> doesn�t matter if it takes 1 to 6 days to download, cache, and rez a 
>> prim locally on the 7th day of the scheduled meeting.
>
> Given the way SL works, and the way people use it, this is an 
> extremely unlikely scenario:
>
> * You're scheduling a meeting 7 days ahead.
> * There's not going to be any need to rez any prims that aren't 
> already in the sim at any time during the meeting.
> ** Or less than 7 days before the meeting.
> ** Including attachments.


SL4B... SL5B... SL6B...  3 examples, it's already likely

Let's add "burning man" event... so that is how many more sims!

All "static" objects easily list as pre-scheduled distributable physics.

Evolved functionality could include static objects attached to avatars, 
as they reserve space (by sign-up, rsvp, etc.)

Evolved functionality on scripted objects that are not interactive are 
eligible for selection (to pre-schedule distribution).

Passive effects that avatars do not affect are also eligible.

Sounds and animations are also eligible for the pre-scheduled list.

This chapter continues


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Re: [opensource-dev] TPV & opensim & physics prediction

[Argent Stonecutter]

On 2010-03-02, at 18:49, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> Let's add "burning man" event... so that is how many more sims!

When I had a build in Burning Life, I was updating it all the way  
through the show, and I saw several people around me doing the same.

That's just how SL gets used, in practice. If you want static builds  
that get uploaded and frozen into the sim, that's what Blue Mars is  
all about.
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Re: [opensource-dev] TPV & opensim & physics prediction

[Dzonatas Sol]

Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> On 2010-03-02, at 18:49, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
>> Let's add "burning man" event... so that is how many more sims!
>
> When I had a build in Burning Life, I was updating it all the way 
> through the show, and I saw several people around me doing the same.
>
> That's just how SL gets used, in practice. If you want static builds 
> that get uploaded and frozen into the sim, that's what Blue Mars is 
> all about.
>


Evolution of load balancers can handle the bulk of static objects that 
finish in a timely manner. Reservation of virtual land parcels easily 
prioritized by a selection of those that already have a build done. 
Those last on the list or late reservation obviously get a sim 
especially set aside for those build not done in a timely manner. The 
main area obviously contains those that are done in a timely manner.

Promotion to devolve virtual lands and move to other systems without 
negotiation requires diplomacy. It's the investors' matter to undo 
current diplomacy.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe as an mixed reality platform

[Morgaine]

Merov, further to Kantonen+Suzy and Lawson's posts about Snowglob
extensions, once the 2.0 code merges settle down, can we please get back to
the topic of client-side scripting that was rudely interrupted by the TPV
debacle?

It is precisely that kind of generic scriptable extension mechanism that
will allow easy integration into Snowglobe of industry-sponsored projects
such as that of VTT+IBM and well as community projects such as Saijanai's
work with Cobalt, instead of requiring each new application to be grafted on
as special cases.

Every special external plugin will need to communicate with an effective API
in the viewer, and expanding the viewer API for each such external plugin is
clearly not scalable nor even viable, not to mention inflexible.

This is why a generic viewer API for communicating with pluggable extensions
is extremely important for the future of Snowglobe as an extensible
application.  The number of possible extensions is unbounded, but the
hundreds of eyes focussed on this mailing list are probably sufficient to
come up with a suitably generic API and a good infrastructure design for
managing these kinds of extensions.


Morgaine.






On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Lawson English  wrote:

> I'm working on mixing Cobalt with SL via the media plugin. Here's a bit
> of discussion of how it (and future plugins) might work:
>
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion
>
> Lawson
>
> Suzy Deffeyes wrote:
> > I'm very interested in this work ( full disclosure, IBM is one of the
> > sponsors of the work), Moriz, I agree that today's head mounted
> > displays are a bit bulky for widespread use.  It is great foundational
> > work, and there are some aspects that we could integrate into
> > Snowglobe that would be useful *today*.  One of those is the gesture
> > recognition code. It's towards the end of Tuomas' video. It uses a
> > webcam to detect a user nodding yes/no, and then plays an in world
> > animation based on detecting the gesture.
> >
> > Merov, once the Snowglobe 2.0 code settles down, can we discuss a way
> > to have a pluggable framework that people could use for things like
> > AR? Might make a good topic for a Hippo meeting.
> > Suzy
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Moriz Gupte  > > wrote:
> >
> > This is very neat. Still a bit bulky for immediate use but a great
> > foundation for future.
> > R
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 3:31 AM, Kantonen Tuomas
> > mailto:tuomas.kanto...@vtt.fi>> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I've been working on a project using Second Life as a platform to
> > develop mixed reality teleconferencing/-collaboration system.
> > A brief
> > intro about the project can be found at
> > http://www.vtt.fi/multimedia/projects/mrconference.html
> > and a video demo of our work so far is at
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNB0_c-5TSk .
> >
> > The project, continuing also in 2010, is split into two parts:
> > overlaying a video image with avatars and virtual objects
> > (augmented
> > reality; AR) and using hand and head gestures to control
> > avatars and
> > interact with virtual objects (augmented virtuality; AV).
> >
> > We have agreed to release our work as open source. However,
> > lack of
> > continuous "forward porting" would soon render the released code
> > unusable. It would therefore be better to have some parts of our
> > work incorporated into the Snowglobe sources.
> >
> > I've tried to keep all our modifications as small as possible.
> The
> > project is separated to our own ACME (Augmented Collaboration
> > in Mixed
> > Environments) module, vanilla Snowglobe code and an interface
> > between
> > the two.
> >
> > I'd be ready to invest some time to implement a generic AR/AV
> > support
> > for Snowglobe if we could come up with a design that could be
> > accepted
> > by the Snowglobe developers. This would allow anyone to use
> > Snowglobe
> > as AR/AV research platform, with or without our software.
> >
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] TPV & opensim & physics prediction

[Tigro Spottystripes]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

i'll take the opportunity to promote a somewhat related feature
suggestions i've posted on pjira:
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13942 - Optimize non-dynamic
content on sims


On 2/3/2010 22:05, Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> On 2010-03-02, at 18:49, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
>> Let's add "burning man" event... so that is how many more sims!
> 
> When I had a build in Burning Life, I was updating it all the way  
> through the show, and I saw several people around me doing the same.
> 
> That's just how SL gets used, in practice. If you want static builds  
> that get uploaded and frozen into the sim, that's what Blue Mars is  
> all about.
> ___
> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
> 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAkuNwtcACgkQ8ZFfSrFHsmXMpACdEX036IjCLQ0r88cm6TV/UIuQ
jbUAnRA+7vnwGV5teRp8r92L88aZuFYw
=MBSt
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [opensource-dev] TPV & opensim & physics prediction

[Morgaine]

That's a great idea, Tigro!

I think I'll bring it up in the context of realXtend's Naali + Opensim some
time.  They might well be interested in accelerating static content, and
since Naali is evolving so rapidly and is highly modular, it might not be
terribly hard to do.

PS. The AW Groupies meeting we had with realXtend this morning was excellent
and very well attended, sparking a ton of interest in Naali.  (See
Sai's earlier
postfor
link to transcript.)


Morgaine.


===

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 2:00 AM, Tigro Spottystripes <
tigrospottystri...@gmail.com> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> i'll take the opportunity to promote a somewhat related feature
> suggestions i've posted on pjira:
> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13942 - Optimize non-dynamic
> content on sims
>
>
> On 2/3/2010 22:05, Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> > On 2010-03-02, at 18:49, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> >> Let's add "burning man" event... so that is how many more sims!
> >
> > When I had a build in Burning Life, I was updating it all the way
> > through the show, and I saw several people around me doing the same.
> >
> > That's just how SL gets used, in practice. If you want static builds
> > that get uploaded and frozen into the sim, that's what Blue Mars is
> > all about.
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[opensource-dev] Eclipse Guru's

[Fire]

Hi everyone

I have been using LSL Plus , and eclipse
for the longest time to develop LSL code.  I love it due to its
auto-completion abilities, and the general user interface.
I recently installed Subversion using this site as a guide:
http://www.vogella.de/articles/EclipseSubversive/article.html and am now
uploading my code and versioning it using
a private SVN at http://unfuddle.com/

What a great little dev environment!!!

To commit code now to my SVN repository, I just press - control-alt-c and
BOOM - my version is saved!  Very sweet!  I am wondering who else on this
list uses eclipse, and am particularly interested in how and if you use this
in a team environment.

Ie: Have you used eclipse to work on the same lsl project with another dev?
 if so, what eclipse plugins have you used to share team information, issues
etc?  Please let me know! Cheers!  BTW, if any pro-scripters out there are
interested in working in profitable SL projects, let me know. Cheers

Fire
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