[MlMt] Evaluation results
Hi there, I have been using Mailmate for three weeks now - with very mixed feelings. As a longtime Postbox user I've been pissed lately by the bad support of Postbox Inc and some painful bugs in the stability of Postbox - so I came to Mailmate. However Mailmate also has tons of minor and major issues. Ok, no software is bugfree. But the density of minor flaws in Mailmate (that I would not expect from a 1.9 version) is annoying. Some of my highlight bugs: - invalid counters for unread mails for *some* folders - "default columns" do not work as expect, reverting the default columns for a folder is not persisted properly - being unable to remove an imap folder containing message without prior removing all mails manually (major usability pain in the ass) - incomplete and half-baked implementation of the "mailboxes" tree...being unable to arrange mailboxes as needed using drag & drop - fragile rule engine...hard to debug why email rules work sometimes and sometimes not - usability issues with the signing and encryption UI where the signing/lock icons are set or enabled when it does not make sense (e.g. no key available for a recipient) Most of the issues have been reported as feedback or as bugreports. What is my point? Mailmate is not a bad application and I appreciate that the maintainer cares more about productivity and power-user features than implementing useless features that nobody needs. However Mailmate has a serious quality assurance problem. A lot of features are only half implemented and not stable or usable. What is the point? Mailmate costs 45 EURO compared to 15 EUR for Postbox compared to nothing for Mail.app. The conclusion is: all mail applications for Mac suck in their own special way - only the price differs. -aj signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
-- ZOPYX | Python | Zope | Plone | E-Publishing Hundskapfklinge 33| Consulting & Development D-72074 Tübingen | Electronic Publishing Solutions www.zopyx.com | Scalable Web Solutions -- Produce & Publish - www.produce-and-publish.com On 19 May 2015, at 9:53, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: - "default columns" do not work as expect, reverting the default columns for a folder is not persisted properly Yes, this does not work well for certain standard folder types (sent, junk, ...). Unfortunately, improving this most likely requires a fundamental redesign of how it works and I cannot promise that'll happen soon. No, it does not work _at all_ with standard folder. I apply "Revert to default columns" on a folder, switch to a different folder and back and the column layout again is not the default columns layout. - being unable to remove an imap folder containing message without prior removing all mails manually (major usability pain in the ass) As I stated in [the ticket](https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/1157-unable-to-delete-imap-folders#ticket-1157-1) I am willing to prioritize this if it's very important to you. I don't see this as a “major usability pain in the ass” since I don't think a lot of users frequently delete IMAP mailboxes containing emails. As also stated in the ticket, it's not a quick fix, because MailMate has multiple checks to ensure that non-empty IMAP mailboxes are never deleted. It is a major pain when you need to clean up your inboxes or deal with lots of mailboxes that you are using for a short amount of time. And as said: adding an explicit user confirmation is unlikely a big warning. - incomplete and half-baked implementation of the "mailboxes" tree...being unable to arrange mailboxes as needed using drag & drop There is certainly potential for improvement in this area. It's just half-baked and it is far away from being helpful for organizing my favorite email folders and for accessing them fast. - fragile rule engine...hard to debug why email rules work sometimes and sometimes not For debugging, I recommend creating a smart mailbox with the same conditions as used by the rule. That should make it easy to see what is matched and what is not matched. Easy rules like matching a single From: address sometimes works and sometimes it does not. The behavior is often odd and unpredictable. This makes working with Mailmate just unreliable. What is my point? Mailmate is not a bad application and I appreciate that the maintainer cares more about productivity and power-user features than implementing useless features that nobody needs. However Mailmate has a serious quality assurance problem. A lot of features are only half implemented and not stable or usable. What is the point? Mailmate costs 45 EURO compared to 15 EUR for Postbox compared to nothing for Mail.app. Well, you already stated what your problem with Postbox is. I wrote this (and many other replies) for free. Getting the same number of responses from Postbox support would have cost you a fortune ;-) As an added bonus, I've spent time ignoring the use of words such as “ass”, “stupid”, and “suck”. That's not as easy as one might think. (Oh, and good luck getting feedback replies from Apple.) I guess feedback should be a two-way street: I don't know about other developers, but I think you would get both more and better responses by toning down your language a bit. I'm certainly not motivated by being told how much this or that suck. I'm perfectly aware of all the bugs and short-comings of MailMate. I am, by far, its worst critic and I have no idea why *anyone* would want to use MailMate. That is also why I continue to work on MailMate. I want it to be good enough to deserve *my own* praise. The conclusion is: all mail applications for Mac suck in their own special way - only the price differs. I really don't know how to respond to that. If you are in a situation where you need a discount then let me know. I'm not going to lower the price in general. And don't get me wrong. If I was working on MailMate for the money then I would be more stupid than the shortcomings of MailMate are. I don't care about a discount and I don't care about 50 EUR. I care about a working work environment and I take the freedom to complain about software that has obvious bugs. I am software developer myself and I am annoyed to see so many little obvious and open issues in your software in a 1.9 release. I have not seen this in any other Mac software so far. Either some features are not very well thought or just badly implement or just to generic in order to make it right (the rules engine gives me exactly this feeling). -aj signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
On 19 May 2015, at 17:09, Paula Coelho wrote: >>> Yes, this does not work well for certain standard folder types (sent, junk, >>> ...). Unfortunately, improving this most likely requires a fundamental >>> redesign of how it works and I cannot promise that'll happen soon. >> >> >> No, it does not work _at all_ with standard folder. I apply "Revert to >> default columns" on a folder, switch to a different folder and back and the >> column layout again is not the default columns layout. > > I’m on MM 1.9.1 (5084) OS X 10.10.3 and I cannot reproduce what you describe. > I get what Benny pointed out: it does _not_ work for Drafts, Sent and Junk, > it _works_ perfectly for everything else. > Not, it does not as you can see from this screencast: http://public.zopyx.com/mailmate.mp4 -aj signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
On 19 May 2015, at 17:27, Ben Klebe wrote: >> I don't care about a discount and I don't care about 50 EUR. I care about a >> working work environment and >> I take the freedom to complain about software that has obvious bugs. I am >> software developer myself and I am annoyed to see so many little obvious and >> open issues in your software in a 1.9 release. I have not seen this in any >> other Mac software so far. Either some features are not very well thought or >> just badly implement >> or just to generic in order to make it right (the rules engine gives me >> exactly this feeling). >> >> -aj > > > > Furthermore, MailMate offers classes of features that are unavailable in > other mail clients, and even the ability to request more of these features > and amendments to these features directly with a prompt and polite response. > The bugs you have pointed out are non-obvious at best and edge cases at worst. Counters showing improper numbers of unread messages an edge case? Non persistent column settings an edge case? Simple email rules something working and sometimes not an edge case? Seriously? > For a single developer the fact that it works at all is quite impressive, > especially in such an archaic language as Objective-C. I'm sure you realize > that. You don't have the right to complain about bugs in software you do not > own. If it really peeved you that your trial had so many bugs, you could have > simply said "here's why I'm not buying" and moved on. The programming language does not matter and the number of developers does not matter. The quality of a product I potentially pay for matters. If the quality, the reliability and the added value over competitor products is worth the money then I am happy to pay let's say 100 EUR. Neither the programming language nor the number of developer is an excuse for such obvious flaws. And you don't have to tell that I have no right for complaining about bugs. Obviously some of you have problems taking issues seriously? -aj signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
On 19 May 2015, at 17:50, Ben Klebe wrote: >> Counters showing improper numbers of unread messages an edge case? >> Non persistent column settings an edge case? >> Simple email rules something working and sometimes not an edge case? >> >> Seriously? >> >> The programming language does not matter and the number of developers does >> not matter. The quality of a product I potentially pay for matters. If the >> quality, the reliability and the added value over competitor products is >> worth the money then I am happy to pay let's say 100 EUR. Neither the >> programming language nor the number of developer is an excuse for such >> obvious flaws. And you don't have to tell that I have no right for >> complaining about bugs. Obviously some of you have problems taking issues >> seriously? > > The flaws are, as I've reiterated, non-obvious. I run MM with a bunch of > hacky Gmail labels on the "back end" of my email system, and it handles it > all with grace. > > No, I don't have any issues taking problems seriously. It's just on the scale > of problems, I've never experienced any of these and they don't seem like a > big deal. However I acknowledge that they affect you, I'm simply saying that > you haven't helped to push things along at all. If the biggest problem in > your life right now is bugs in a Mac email client, you might want to > reconsider your perspective. > > And no, you don't have any right to force a developer to fix bugs in a > product you haven't paid for. It's Benny's choice to even engage with us at > all in the first place, which we should be grateful for. Few developers are > so down-to-earth that they will even entertain such baseless insults to their > credibility as yours. > > Your original email lamented the quality of Mac email clients in general, > which you cannot blame MailMate for. If it's not for you, don't use it. You > don't seem to have any interest in doing so, or you'd be actually using it > instead of complaining about the minor issues that bug you. > > Finally, you must be quite naïve about software development or quite new to > suggest that neither the language or the number of developers matter. They > are both of critical importance, or people wouldn't spend so much time > discussing both. Software written in an imperative style or imperative > language, especially one with low memory safety like C, is doomed to suffer > bugs such as these. It's a consequence of the style. Entirely bug-free > software will never be written in a C-derived language, especially not the > first time. > Oh well, the typical we-don't-care and we-don't-give-a-shit-on-bugs-and-software-quality reactions... -aj signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
On 19 May 2015, at 17:53, Barton Lipman wrote: > For someone who is so particular, why is this one of the testimonials on your > website? > >> Produce & Publish server: >> >> We justed finished writing our brochure texts through the web and some >> seconds later we could hold the print-ready PDF document in our hands - >> very impressing. Just a blink of an eye away and the PDF was ready - this >> this the fascination of this publishing solution. > > There's no need to harass people on a public mailing list who subscribe in > order to keep up with new ideas for software they like. If you don't like > it, please communicate with the developer off this mailing list or just don't > buy the software. > oh my god...are we in the software business or in the kindergarten? you guys can't stand critics for paid software? How laughable is this? Since Mailmate is not open-source and since it is a commercial product (and I don't have to care about the language and about the circumstance of the making of Mailmate) there is a right to complain. Feel free to be offended or take the critics seriously..perhaps someone takes a lesson from this thread. -aj signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] How to find largest emails?
What is the best way to find all mails of an account across all IMAP folders large than XX MB? Andreas signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] Sign & Encrypt option no longer available after moving Mailmate
Hi there, I moved my Mailmate installation to a new Mac. I copied all .plist files and everything is almost working except that I do no longer see options for signing and/or encrypting an email on the left of the dropdown of available email identities within the composer windows. However I can read and decrypt encrypted GPG emails. The gpg2 binary is also available (Installed via Homebrew). -aj ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] Show "send later option always
I moved my Mailmate installation and I can’t no longer see the Send later option inside the composer window. The enabled both related hidden preferences and the Send Later option show up again with the default value. However I want the default to be 0 seconds and I want that the Send Later option field is always available within the composer window (as it was on my old system). -aj ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Show "send later option always
Sorry, found it :-) On 7 Mar 2018, at 7:29, Andreas Jung wrote: I moved my Mailmate installation and I can’t no longer see the Send later option inside the composer window. The enabled both related hidden preferences and the Send Later option show up again with the default value. However I want the default to be 0 seconds and I want that the Send Later option field is always available within the composer window (as it was on my old system). -aj ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] Removing email addresses from auto-completion
I have some weird (improper) for email addresses that I enter into the To: address field. Where can I see and remove a related email address entry? The address does not exist in the Mac address book and does not appear in the address panel of Mailmate. -aj ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Messages not being displayed and improper reply quoting
Hi there, I have two weird issues since a few days with Mailmate Version 1.13 (5655): - some plain text emails (checked using „raw source“) are not longer being displayed (empty body window). The original text appears properly quoted when clicking on reply. - click on reply for *some* emails open the reply windows with a UID? as quoted text: On 21 Oct 2019, at 17:27, x...@xx.org wrote: > EFEDC268-CEA3-471D-B7EE-06BC2BEF6F5C Anyone seen this? Andreas ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
