RE: saytext is available

[Bryan Smart]

There are other differences, too.

Those Nokia phones use a Xenon-based flash for the camera, and KNFB Reader 
includes a two-stage polarization filter. These work together to be sure that 
the object that you scan is lit well and evenly. Without the Xenon flash, the 
little LED flash in most phones isn't always able to overcome shadows, 
particularly when an image is snapped at close range. Difference in light level 
will confuse any OCR algorithm. Without the polarization filter, it is next to 
impossible to get a good image of any glossy surface, such as a box cover, a 
magazine, a laminated piece of paper. If you take a picture of one of those 
items without a polarization filter, the resulting picture includes the cameras 
flash brightly reflecting from the glossy surface. That will seriously mess up 
OCR, obliterating any text that is located inside the reflection.

Beyond that, the KNFB Reader also recognizes multiple languages, and includes 
language-to-language translation tools. Not that many people use these on a 
day-to-day basis, but they're still fairly impressive.

The real impressive bit about the KNFB Reader is that, even when it takes a 
long time, it always manages to read me something. I have taken pictures of 
computer screens when they won't boot, and heard the post messages (extremely 
difficult to read those without a polarization filter). I've zapped a 
drive-through menu through a car window, and it read a large chunk of it. I can 
even scan labels on bags, where the surface is not only glossy, but anything 
other than flat.

There is also its money identification mode. There are some inexpensive 
programs for Symbian that will just identify money, but, for some reason, some 
of them aren't able to identify every note. I think that the BeyoCBS tool for 
doing this isn't supposed to be able to identify $5 notes, and misreports them 
as $1, for example. The KNFB Reader gets them all, though. Someone needs to 
make a money identification program for iOS.

KNFB is still a better product, but perhaps not worth $1,000.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Simon F
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 4:24 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: saytext is available

The iPhone 4 is a 5 megapicsal camera but your right, it's not a karlzyse 
optics lens like the cameras in the n86 and othe r devices used with the knfb 
mobile reader.
 These cameras do make a differenece   I can't wait to see what the n8 with
it's 12mp camera does with knfb reader mobile.
 The 8mp cam is great, what would a 12 be like.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: Wednesday, 30 June 2010 5:52 a.m.
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: saytext is available

Using a scanner for OCR is old hat.  I think if a stand was made available for 
the iPhone to fit into then the results would be better.  The distance would be 
correct and the picture would be steady.  The Iphone camera does not have image 
stabilisation and does not have very good auto focus and auto zoom.  The camera 
was not designed for OCR in mind unlike the ones you get from Humanware.  The 
resolution on the 3GS is only 3.2 pixel too.

As the camera improves on the iPhone with future models and the processor 
becomes more powerful to enable more complex functions it will be then that we 
will see improved OCR on the iPhone.  But as I have said before this app is 
great considering it is free and the hardware it is running on.
On 29 Jun 2010, at 18:18, Cody

> the issue is that the entire paper doesn't fit nicely inside the
> camera lense, and there are things around like other fixtures, a hand,
maybe a table with a pattern or lines that the ocr might interpret as text, 
thats why this is not a good idea. that is why  a scanner can do a better job 
On Jun 29, 2010, at 12:59 PM, clarence griffin wrote:
>
>> maybe the camera isn't getting the light it needs to focus or maybe
>> the
print is not clear enough. who knows. there are so many things that it could 
be. Maybe the type of paper. Maybe there are images on the paper behind the 
text that could be throwing it off. It could be lots of things. the font of the 
text could be another thing.
>> For a free program folks, this thing can really go some ware. Luck
>> its
not me. I would charge all you complaining bastards for all the hard work. I 
figure if I am going to get complained at, I might as well get paid for it.
lol.
>> But yeah folks, lets help this developer to help us. Write him with
>> ideas
and don't wine about how it doesn't work. Its free for crying out loud and we 
should be thankful that there are people willing to take time to do something 
like this, and not charge us out the but for it like other people.
>>
>> GF
>>
>>
>> On Jun 29, 2010, at 9:44 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
>>
>>> I have

RE: How do you drag a file or folder from one location to another?

[Bryan Smart]

There is actually a technical reason, or there was, at one point.

If you cut/paste a file, that should be a move of the file. Except, if you 
cut/paste to another hard drive, in which case, instead of a move, the Finder 
must perform a copy to the new drive, then delete the original. Supposedly, 
there was some complexity in having the Finder always detect which process was 
needed, and still account for strange situations, like when a folder on a 
volume is actually a simlink to a file server. I know that Apple could have 
worked it out, but it wasn't a quicky fix. I suspect that they put it off for 
when it could be better implemented, but, since most users don't need it, they 
just kept putting it off. 

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How do you drag a file or folder from one location to another?

No I have already looked, by turning VO off does not change  the fact that 
Apple do not want users (sighted or blind) to cut in the finder.  Shame Apple 
had not supplied a move file/folder feature for  moving items.  There used to 
be a hack you could enter into the terminal to unlock the greyed out cut in the 
main menu and pop up menu.  But cutting would then just move to trash.

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20060626085238931







On 30 Jun 2010, at 13:31, Cody Hurst w
> I tend to concur with that assessment, but this script should be easy 
> enough to set up. rather than do as the page says and install it via the 
> system preferences, one could just open voiceover and make a keyboard 
> commander short cut as none of us would be working with a ma without 
> voiceover anyway. Antoher odd thought, do you think perhaps the cut option is 
> grayed out because we're using voiceover, and when voiceover is disabled, the 
> option is ungrayed. seems silly but it could be a system wide bug, or feature 
> as it was On Jun 30, 2010, at 6:01 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> This is a philosophical letter, or at least somewhat.:-) I think it's 
>> odd that no screen reader in any graphical user interface that i have 
>> encountered has had a good drag-n-drop feature. Surely both Jfw and Wineyes 
>> has it but i have never managed to remember the commands for those things. 
>> The only screen reader i've seen that has had a good drag-&-drop feature was 
>> the old Outspoken screen reader for the older Macs, and that feature was 
>> really good. I wonder if it's due to technical difficulties or what could 
>> make it hard to implement this feature? and what about clicking with 
>> modifiers helld down? There are many applications where you have to 
>> option-click, shift click, command click or drag with modifier keys held 
>> down to get a certain effect. Why doesn't this work with Voiceover? It may, 
>> as i said be hard to implement so that could be why it's not possible but 
>> well, i must admit it bugs me sometimes.
>> /Krister
>> 30 jun 2010 kl. 02.08 skrev William Windels:
>> 
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> This is a known problem that we can't drag and drop objects in the finder.
>>> apple knows already of this issue but it seems that they are not planning 
>>> to change this in the near future.
>>> It's frustrated, I know but, there is a good alternative like described in 
>>> the mail of Rossy.
>>> 
>>> I use this script and I have linked the hockey command+option+shift+x to do 
>>> this task.
>>> It goes fast enough for me but, of course, a natural command+x 
>>> should be better :(
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> best regards,
>>> William
>>> 
>>> Op 30-jun-2010, om 01:23 heeft Chris Moore het volgende geschreven:
>>> 
 I had never noticed this problem before as I just used the mouse in the 
 past to drag and drop, now I can't see to use the mouse.  So I tried to 
 use command + x to cut and no joy.  However, cut works in text edit etc.  
 I have sent a message to Apple asking about this, will let you know if 
 they come back with anything constructive.  Anyone else who has this 
 issue, then please send an email to Apple too.
 On 29 Jun 2010, at 22:21, rossy wrote:
 
> hi ,
> if it can help you  here you can find the script move file .
> this helps for the cut and paste .
> http://www.universalaccess.it/script-english/
> let us know if you need help .
> rossy
> www.universalaccess.it
> 
> Il giorno 29/giu/2010, alle ore 17.16, Alfredo ha scritto:
> 
>> How to you drag a file or folder from one folder to another?  I 
>> know this can be done, as it is in the starting guide but I did 
>> not understand how to do this.  Has anyone had success doing 
>> this, if so can you tell me the tricks and tips about dragging a 
>> file or folder
> 
> 
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed

RE: How do you drag a file or folder from one location to another?

[Bryan Smart]

When you move a file, the computer just changes info stored on the drive about 
where the file is stored. It doesn't have to spend time actually making another 
copy. That's why people want to move instead of copy. Copying a 1GB folder 
takes as long as is required to copy 1GB of data. Moving a 1GB folder is almost 
instant.

Bryan
 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 10:53 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How do you drag a file or folder from one location to another?

When dragging and dropping, aren't you just copying and pasting anyhow? If one 
were to compare what is actually happening with the files, wouldn't it take 
just as long to drag and drop a 1-gig file as copying and pasting it?

Teresa
On Jun 30, 2010, at 6:17 AM, John J Herzog wrote:

> Hi Teresa,
> I wanted to comment on your suggestion that it is easier to copy and paste 
> versus drag and drop. I'm afraid that, for time reasons alone, drag and drop 
> would be far more useful than copying and pasting currently is. When you drag 
> and drop something from one place to another, it is almost instantaneous. By 
> contrast, copying something that is multiple gigabytes, like an Itunes 
> library for instance, takes quite a while. So, for time sake alone, dragging 
> and dropping would be a far easier method of moving things from one spot to 
> another, if only we could utilize it. 
> Now, however, you have to copy something to a new location, remembering, of 
> course, to delete the previous one if you don't want it any longer, which 
> takes a good amount of time. For this reason, I wish drag and drop would be 
> implemented in voiceover. 
> 
> John
> 
> On Jun 30, 2010, at 8:38 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Now that I think of it, I do remember asking myself if I could live without 
>> a "cut" feature as I looked at some Mac tutorials. So I actually knew about 
>> that one going in. I figure if I wasn't happy with a basic feature of an OS, 
>> I wouldn't use the OS.
>> 
>> As for dragging and dropping, it might be a good idea to know how to do it, 
>> but probably in the same way that it's a good idea to know how to make 
>> bricks. You just might use it someday, but if there's a simpler way to do 
>> it, chances are you'll mostly use that instead.
>> 
>> Teresa
>> On Jun 30, 2010, at 3:46 AM, Kaare Dehard wrote:
>> 
>>> there used to be, an probably still is an automator work flow that used to 
>>> simulate drag, drop and remove. This unavailability of cut at the os level 
>>> has probably saved a number of tech support reps irate phonecalls and is 
>>> not likely to go awyay... 
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Kaare.
>>> On 2010-06-30, at 3:30 AM, Cody Hurst wrote:
>>> 
 this is strange, I think someone on here said they used it in 
 leopard. I wonder if there is a setting that needs to be changed why would 
 it work on one machine and not another On Jun 29, 2010, at 8:37 PM, Teresa 
 Cochran wrote:
 
> How odd. I've used the copy and paste commands numerous times to move 
> applications from the downloads folder to the apps folder.
> 
> Teresa
> On Jun 29, 2010, at 5:28 PM, Chris Moore wrote:
> 
>> Such a basic function, even Win-doze can do it.  What were Apple 
>> thinking of?
>> 
>> Do they not think we can be trusted with a virtual pair of 
>> scissors? (frown)
>> 
>> Apart from scripts, I wonder if there are any hacks to override 
>> this. G-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r- On 30 Jun 2010, at 01:18, Chuck Reichel 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> I have Apple care on my mac pro Quad core and have been asking them 
>>> when drag and drop  would be fixed in Snow Leopard.
>>> It works on my g5 box with Leopard thats why I brought it to there 
>>> attention.
>>> They said that they are working on it!
>>> Talk soon
>>> 
>>> On Jun 29, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Chris Moore wrote:
>>> 
 I had never noticed this problem before as I just used the mouse in 
 the past to drag and drop, now I can't see to use the mouse.  So I 
 tried to use command + x to cut and no joy.  However, cut works in 
 text edit etc.  I have sent a message to Apple asking about this, will 
 let you know if they come back with anything constructive.  Anyone 
 else who has this issue, then please send an email to Apple too.
 On 29 Jun 2010, at 22:21, rossy wrote:
 
> hi ,
> if it can help you  here you can find the script move file .
> this helps for the cut and paste .
> http://www.universalaccess.it/script-english/
> let us know if you need help .
> rossy
> www.universalaccess.it
> 
> Il giorno 29/giu/2010, alle ore 17.16, Alfredo ha scritto:
> 
>> How to you drag a f

RE: How do you drag a file or folder from one location to another?

[Bryan Smart]

Because no one needs it, except for the 1% of 1% of Mac users that are blind. 
Would have thought that someone would have even had spare time to get around to 
it by now. Has been that way a long long time.

I'll have a better solution for this than the move file script by next week, 
along with some other interesting news.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 11:27 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How do you drag a file or folder from one location to another?

For as advanced as the finder is, I don't see hwo this could have been an issue 
at all, especially now. and especially considering how fast machines are 
nowadays, with multicore processors, why is this still an issue?
On Jun 30, 2010, at 9:20 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:

> There is actually a technical reason, or there was, at one point.
> 
> If you cut/paste a file, that should be a move of the file. Except, if you 
> cut/paste to another hard drive, in which case, instead of a move, the Finder 
> must perform a copy to the new drive, then delete the original. Supposedly, 
> there was some complexity in having the Finder always detect which process 
> was needed, and still account for strange situations, like when a folder on a 
> volume is actually a simlink to a file server. I know that Apple could have 
> worked it out, but it wasn't a quicky fix. I suspect that they put it off for 
> when it could be better implemented, but, since most users don't need it, 
> they just kept putting it off. 
> 
> Bryan
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore
> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:57 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: How do you drag a file or folder from one location to another?
> 
> No I have already looked, by turning VO off does not change  the fact that 
> Apple do not want users (sighted or blind) to cut in the finder.  Shame Apple 
> had not supplied a move file/folder feature for  moving items.  There used to 
> be a hack you could enter into the terminal to unlock the greyed out cut in 
> the main menu and pop up menu.  But cutting would then just move to trash.
> 
> http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20060626085238931
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Jun 2010, at 13:31, Cody Hurst w
>> I tend to concur with that assessment, but this script should be easy 
>> enough to set up. rather than do as the page says and install it via the 
>> system preferences, one could just open voiceover and make a keyboard 
>> commander short cut as none of us would be working with a ma without 
>> voiceover anyway. Antoher odd thought, do you think perhaps the cut option 
>> is grayed out because we're using voiceover, and when voiceover is disabled, 
>> the option is ungrayed. seems silly but it could be a system wide bug, or 
>> feature as it was On Jun 30, 2010, at 6:01 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> This is a philosophical letter, or at least somewhat.:-) I think 
>>> it's odd that no screen reader in any graphical user interface that i have 
>>> encountered has had a good drag-n-drop feature. Surely both Jfw and Wineyes 
>>> has it but i have never managed to remember the commands for those things. 
>>> The only screen reader i've seen that has had a good drag-&-drop feature 
>>> was the old Outspoken screen reader for the older Macs, and that feature 
>>> was really good. I wonder if it's due to technical difficulties or what 
>>> could make it hard to implement this feature? and what about clicking with 
>>> modifiers helld down? There are many applications where you have to 
>>> option-click, shift click, command click or drag with modifier keys held 
>>> down to get a certain effect. Why doesn't this work with Voiceover? It may, 
>>> as i said be hard to implement so that could be why it's not possible but 
>>> well, i must admit it bugs me sometimes.
>>> /Krister
>>> 30 jun 2010 kl. 02.08 skrev William Windels:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Chris,
>>>> This is a known problem that we can't drag and drop objects in the finder.
>>>> apple knows already of this issue but it seems that they are not planning 
>>>> to change this in the near future.
>>>> It's frustrated, I know but, there is a good alternative like described in 
>>>> the mail of Rossy.
>>>> 
>>>> I use this script and I have linked the hockey command

RE: cut, copy, and paste files

[Bryan Smart]

I'll have a better way to do this stuff in about a week.

Bryan 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kevin Mattingly
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 5:55 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: cut, copy, and paste files

Yep,

I tried both of these too and no luck. What we need is a way to append to the 
clipboard instead of replacing the items in there. They have a way to do this 
in jaws but so far, no success. Do we need an enhancement or is Chris smarter 
or more talented than us.

Kev
On Jul 4, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote:

> Hi:
> 1. I opened up documents.
> 2. I pressed vo shift function left arrow to go to the top of the window.
> 3. Turned off cursor tracking.
> 4. Pressed shift down arrow to sellect a file.
> 5. Wanted to skip a couple of files and continue, but wen pressing space, it 
> opened up a preview window, didn't select specific files to copy.
> On Jul 4, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Chris Moore wrote:
> 
>> you can use command + a to select all, to select multiple files press shift 
>> + command + option + f3 to turn keyboard tracking off, then move to the 
>> file(s) you wish to select by pressing the spacebar.
>> On 4 Jul 2010, at 20:10, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote:
>> 
>>> What if you want to select everything from 1 point to the top of the 
>>> window, I.E. from current position to "home" or from current position to 
>>> end."? What about selecting only specific files that aren't right next to 
>>> each other?
>>> On Jul 4, 2010, at 1:05 PM, Kevin Mattingly wrote:
>>> 
 From what I understand cut doesn't work. You can select multiple files by 
 holding the shift and the down arrow. I generally don't have luck moving 
 from group to group doing this. Once you select the files, hit control-c 
 to copy and then control-v to paste when you're in the folder you want 
 tthe files in.
 
 Is this what you're asking about?
 
 Kev
 On Jul 4, 2010, at 2:01 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote:
 
> Hello:
> I'm having a real problem figuring out how to cut, copy, and paste files 
> and folders from 1 location to another. If this was Windows, I'd just use 
> shift up and down arrows to continuously select files. If I wanted to 
> select specific files, I'd use control up and down arrows, then press 
> space bar on the files I wanted, choose control x, c, v, etc to perform 
> the specific actions. I'm having no luck on the Mac. I have my keyboard, 
> mouse, vo cursors all following each other. I'm confused. Help? I've read 
> chapter 4 of the VO user guide, but that isn't helping me.
> 
> 
> Sarai Bucciarelli
> Personal Come join me on www.swagbucks.com/refer/sdbuccia
> 
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RE: Keyboard issues with fusion, suggestions?

[Bryan Smart]

I do something like this, but I map the right command key on the Mac to the 
caps lock key in Windows. Then, the caps lock becomes the Jaws keys when in 
Jaws laptop layout.

And, throwing your VM in to full screen, and turning off VoiceOver will get 
your keyboard focus in to the VM.

VMware is a piece of cake.

Bryan 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Marshall Scott
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 11:34 PM
To: MacVisionaries MacVisionaries
Subject: Re: Keyboard issues with fusion, suggestions?

> 
> Hi,
> 
> Here are my Sharpkes mappings
> Grave to Special Caps Lock
> Left Alt to Left Windows
> Left Windows to Left Alt
> Right Windows to Applications
> 
> 
> After I get these keys remapped I switch to the Laptop layout in JAWS.  This 
> seems to solve the JAWS/Insert Key problem.  It also fixes the "reversal" of 
> the Windows and Alt Keys.  Note that the Keypad layout on the Mac is 
> different from the keypad layout on a Windows machine.  Things like the Route 
> PC to JAWS and Route JAWS to PC are in different locations on the Mac 
> keyboard but you can learn the new locations by using JAWS keyboard help.
> 
> As far as the sound goes, I Launch the VIrtual Machine and then turn off 
> Voiceover.  After I login to the Windows machine, I press Control-Command to 
> move to the Mac and turn Voiceover back on.  I then use Command-G to return 
> to the Windows machine.  I can then switch back and forth by using 
> Control-Command and Command-G.
> 
> I hope this helps.

Marshall

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A warning about Digit-Eyes

[Bryan Smart]

I'm writing to share my experiences with Digit-Eyes.

I tried it on my iPhone 4, with several bar codes, and it didn't recognize even 
one of them. I don't mean that the code was located, but not recognized. I mean 
that the code was not even detected as being in the image. I'd tap the scan 
button, and the constant clicking would begin to let me know that scanning was 
in progress. I was scanning in a brightly lit room, and the screen curtain was 
not on. Rotating the containers in front of the iPhone camera, with it held 
about a foot away from them, produced no results. I had a sighted friend 
deliberately place the bar code in view, something that I would have not been 
able to do on my own, and it wasn't recognized, either. We just kept trying 
different angles, and rotating, but all we got was more clicking from the 
Digit-Eyes scanner.

I had some experience with creating a system like this several years ago. At 
that time, CCD cameras were not as accurate. Even so, for best results, we 
determined that a 3D laser scanner would be required in order for bar codes to 
be detected in the way that a blind person is likely to present them to the 
scanner: at angles, in shadow, etc. This is the technique used by other 
commercial systems like the ID Mate. I was lead to understand that this wasn't 
a concern with Digit-Eyes, due to the higher quality camera in the iPhone 3GS 
and iPhone 4. However, based on my results, I'd say that this isn't so.

Perhaps Digit-Eyes works better with dedicated labels, but, if I were to make 
dedicated labels, I'd just create Braille labels. I realize that everyone 
doesn't read Braille, and so audio labels still might be of use to some people. 
However, the advertised function of being able to read bar codes seems to not 
work, or else, it might work, but requires a level of alignment precision that 
I've not been able to achieve. I'm usually quite capable when it comes to 
reasoning through these types of situations, so my conclusion is that I've 
either overlooked something profound, or else the level of alignment that is 
required for a good scan is grater than most blind people will independently 
obtain without assistance. If you need assistance, you might as well ask the 
sighted person what is on the label. *shrug*

I'd like to hear the experiences of others. However, I can't personally suggest 
that anyone spend the $30 that is charged for this app if they expect to use it 
as a bar code scanner.

Bryan

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RE: A warning about Digit-Eyes

[Bryan Smart]

Yes; I'd be happy if they allowed us to use a Bluetooth laser scanner. Even 
though a separate device would be required for the higher quality scans, there 
are small scanners available. Beyond that, the important fact is that the CPU 
portion (the iPhone), is very mobile. We can, today, use a computer with a 
scanner to identify objects. Carrying a computer around the house isn't handy. 
Carrying an iPhone to do the processing, though, isn't that difficult. So, for 
me, there would still be value.

I suggest that they retain the functionality with the built-in camera, but 
allow Bluetooth scanning for those that can purchase a scanner.

I'm not sure that I'm going to pursue a refund, but I'd encourage others to 
withhold their money until the scanning quality has been addressed. If you just 
buy the program as-is, they have little incentive to improve it.

Bryan 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Howell
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 8:31 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A warning about Digit-Eyes

Bryan,

I have used this application successfully with several types of packages. I 
have found cans to be particularly tricky. I can tell you that my greatest 
success seem to be starting out with my 3GS against the item, and once I 
started the scan, slowly back the phone away from the item. Again, this worked 
for me on several items. I have not run all over the house grabbing everything 
with a barcode, so I can't say that I have encountered every possible packaging 
type and this refers to shiny packaging, different color combinations, etc. I 
don't even know for sure if these are factors. I agree it would be nice if an 
external laser barcode reader could be used because this would seriously speed 
up the process of scanning items in a store etc. I put that suggestion out 
there and not sure if it will be considered or not. I realize carrying such a 
device does defeat some of the purpose perhaps, but it does allow for 
additional opportunities, such as someone who maintains inventory etc. Perhaps 
you have and if not, share your experiences and suggestion.
On Jul 8, 2010, at 6:03 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:

> I'm writing to share my experiences with Digit-Eyes.
> 
> I tried it on my iPhone 4, with several bar codes, and it didn't recognize 
> even one of them. I don't mean that the code was located, but not recognized. 
> I mean that the code was not even detected as being in the image. I'd tap the 
> scan button, and the constant clicking would begin to let me know that 
> scanning was in progress. I was scanning in a brightly lit room, and the 
> screen curtain was not on. Rotating the containers in front of the iPhone 
> camera, with it held about a foot away from them, produced no results. I had 
> a sighted friend deliberately place the bar code in view, something that I 
> would have not been able to do on my own, and it wasn't recognized, either. 
> We just kept trying different angles, and rotating, but all we got was more 
> clicking from the Digit-Eyes scanner.
> 
> I had some experience with creating a system like this several years ago. At 
> that time, CCD cameras were not as accurate. Even so, for best results, we 
> determined that a 3D laser scanner would be required in order for bar codes 
> to be detected in the way that a blind person is likely to present them to 
> the scanner: at angles, in shadow, etc. This is the technique used by other 
> commercial systems like the ID Mate. I was lead to understand that this 
> wasn't a concern with Digit-Eyes, due to the higher quality camera in the 
> iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4. However, based on my results, I'd say that this 
> isn't so.
> 
> Perhaps Digit-Eyes works better with dedicated labels, but, if I were 
> to make dedicated labels, I'd just create Braille labels. I realize 
> that everyone doesn't read Braille, and so audio labels still might be 
> of use to some people. However, the advertised function of being able 
> to read bar codes seems to not work, or else, it might work, but 
> requires a level of alignment precision that I've not been able to 
> achieve. I'm usually quite capable when it comes to reasoning through 
> these types of situations, so my conclusion is that I've either 
> overlooked something profound, or else the level of alignment that is 
> required for a good scan is grater than most blind people will 
> independently obtain without assistance. If you need assistance, you 
> might as well ask the sighted person what is on the label. *shrug*
> 
> I'd like to hear the experiences of others. However, I can't personally 
> suggest that anyone spend the $30 that is charged for 

RE: voice over scripts Would Quick keys work?

[Bryan Smart]

Yep. People have used it before in situations, such as the now non-functional 
scripts for Logic.

I'm using it to assemble a generalized system of script add ons that will be a 
bit more like what people may have experienced with Window Eyes or Jaws.

Download it, if you like. It's fairly accessible with VoiceOver, though there 
are a few tricky spots that require workarounds. There is a 30 day demo, and it 
is nagware after that. Buying it is inexpensive.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Chuck Reichel
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 11:26 AM
To: MacVisionaries
Subject: Re: voice over scripts Would Quick keys work?

Hi Listers,
What about quick keys as a app to gain access to difficult apps?

Chuck Reichel


On Jul 7, 2010, at 7:25 AM, Cody Hurst wrote:

> This is true, but I'm going on the assumption that nothing at all in 
> the application is read, to me, that is inaccessible. And a lot of the 
> time, that help tag command doesnt' report anything
>
> On Jul 7, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Chris Moore wrote:
>
>> Sometimes you can add some functionality to an application.  For 
>> example if you  come across a button which says "button" and does not 
>> read out what the button actually does, then you can manually label 
>> that button.
>>
>> First of all whilst on the button press control + option + shift + h 
>> to see if the button has a alternative help tag, if so then great we 
>> are in business and if not then ask someone sighted to assist you.
>>
>> Whilst still at the non labelled button press control + option + / 
>> (slash).  you will now be prompted to enter a label for the button.  
>> Enter a label and hit return.  Now the next time your VoiceOver 
>> cursor moves over that button it will be fully labelled and visible 
>> to you.  You can also label images the same way.
>>
>> Failing that, email the developers of the product and explain the 
>> issues you are having with the product and how they could improve the 
>> product to enable you to operate it.
>> usually you can find how to contact a developer by going  to the 
>> About menu item within the product or sometimes it is in the help 
>> menu.  Failing that use google to find the developers website, or 
>> www.versiontracker.com
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Chris
>> On 7 Jul 2010, at 01:02, Cody Hurst wrote:
>>
>>> unlike jaws, voiceover is not controlled by scripts, this shouldn't 
>>> be confused with apple scripts which are not the same thing. simply 
>>> put, if the app is not accessible, the only thing to do is write the 
>>> developers and tell them to make it accessible.
>>>
>>> On Jul 6, 2010, at 7:41 PM, joseph wrote:
>>>
 hi listers,

 how can i make applications accessible with voiceover?

 regards

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RE: A warning about Digit-Eyes

[Bryan Smart]

Scott, my opinion is based on a product, not my opinion of a person. If it 
takes $20,000 to plan, develop, test, document, market, and sell a program, I 
charge $30 for it, and sell 700 copies, I've recovered my costs. Those 700 
people have already bought the program, so won't be buying it again. If it will 
cost me $5,000 to upgrade or modify the app, but I'll basically be giving those 
upgrades away for free, then I'm now $5,000 in the hole. I don't go in to 
business to lose money.

So, saying that there is no incentive to improve a program after everyone has 
already bought it means that there is no financial incentive to upgrade a 
program, and that is a matter of fact. You can argue that all day based on 
emotional feelings about the matter, but no business will lose large sums of 
money to please customers that have already bought the product. If they're an 
individual, their family will complain loudly about the hardship. If they're a 
private corporation, the bank will have words with them. If they're a public 
corporation, their stock holders will vote them off the board of directors. It 
doesn't matter what they say. That's how it is.

Anyway, I'll add my vote for laser scanners support on the phone, not the web 
site. If I wanted to use the web site, there is UPCDatabase, and many others. I 
suppose that they're doing as best as can be accomplished with a camera, but a 
camera is just not designed to work the way with bar codes that blind people 
need to work. Please give us the option of a laser scanner. Some of us aren't 
cheap. We just want the software to work well.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Howell
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 5:45 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A warning about Digit-Eyes

Nancy,

I neglected to comment on this statement, but I agree and that statement was 
rather insulting.  I have to say that as much participation as you and others 
have demonstrated on these e-mail lists, shows a level of commitment.
I see lots of potential in this application and although I do not have one of 
those bluetooth laser barcode readers, I have thought about it. Like I said, 
for me it would just speed up the process, but then I suffer from lack of 
patients. :) Although now that I have gotten better with scanning barcodes with 
the camera, I have shorten the time it takes. However, I see the bluetooth 
scanner as a way to potentially make it easier for vendor operators to take 
inventory, possibly blind people to work in retail doing a number of different 
tasks, and so forth. I see the scanner as a natural extension to DigitEyes. Of 
course I sent you that article that I still see possibilities with. I'm so full 
of ideas, but then some say I'm just full of it. :)

On Jul 9, 2010, at 12:25 AM, Nancy Miracle wrote:


Actually, I'd disagree with that last statement.   We have a lot of 
incentive to improve it because we want our customers to be happy and if you 
are not happy, we are not happy either.

Nancy Miracle
Digital Miracles, L.L.C.
    



On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Bryan Smart 
 wrote:


Yes; I'd be happy if they allowed us to use a Bluetooth laser 
scanner. Even though a separate device would be required for the higher quality 
scans, there are small scanners available. Beyond that, the important fact is 
that the CPU portion (the iPhone), is very mobile. We can, today, use a 
computer with a scanner to identify objects. Carrying a computer around the 
house isn't handy. Carrying an iPhone to do the processing, though, isn't that 
difficult. So, for me, there would still be value.

I suggest that they retain the functionality with the built-in 
camera, but allow Bluetooth scanning for those that can purchase a scanner.

I'm not sure that I'm going to pursue a refund, but I'd 
encourage others to withhold their money until the scanning quality has been 
addressed. If you just buy the program as-is, they have little incentive to 
improve it.

Bryan


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Howell
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 8:31 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A warning about Digit-Eyes


Bryan,

I have used this application successfully with several types of 
packages. I have found cans to be particularly tricky. I can tell you that my 
greatest success seem to be starting o

RE: A warning about Digit-Eyes

[Bryan Smart]

Actually, Scott, I'm not wishing for some high priced blind-only solution. I'd 
be 100% satisfied if this app worked with a separate laser scanner that I 
purchased at my own expense. Could get one of those for $300 or so, and it 
would still come out cheaper than the blind-guy solutions.

Communicating with a Bluetooth laser scanner is easy. Laser bar code scanners, 
even ones that work over Bluetooth, are simple serial communications devices. 
All of the brains for scanning a code are in the scanner. Once it sees a code, 
it simply sends the raw code to the computer (or iPhone), over a serial  
connection. In the case of Bluetooth, this happens over the serial port 
profile, which has been around in Bluetooth since the very first spec.

So, the Digit-Eyes people simply need to open a connection to your Bluetooth 
scanner over the serial port protocol, and sit/wait for a code to come in. They 
already have lots of code in their program for attempting to extract bar codes 
out of the camera images, and then pass the code to a web service that returns 
the information. In the case of a Bluetooth scanner, such processing isn't 
necessary. The scanner does the work for them. They just receive the code, and 
pass it along to their web service. The programming is dirt simple, compared to 
the rest of what is in this program.

I'm glad that they're trying. I think that their bar code database has some 
good value. I just don't think that a CCD camera is up to this task. That's 
fine. I'll use my own laser scanner. I just want support for it, since the 
camera won't work dependably.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Howell
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 9:23 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A warning about Digit-Eyes

Bryan,

I am not going to waste my time arguing with you over the issue. I am not 
entirely disagreeing with you; however, I think you seem to take a pretty dim 
view of these people and tend to be more supportive of the "blind" products 
that cost more. My entire point to this discussion is that this may not be 
perfect, but it sure as hell is better than what is available, based on cost. I 
would gladly spend $30 on a product that is in development and may not even 
quite reach the same level as some of the "Blindness" products, then spend the 
$1,000 or more for the "Blindness" products. Then that is me and of course you 
do what works best for you.
So, we can agree to disagree and move on to other topics, this thread has run 
its course as far as I am concerned.
On Jul 10, 2010, at 1:53 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:

> Scott, my opinion is based on a product, not my opinion of a person. If it 
> takes $20,000 to plan, develop, test, document, market, and sell a program, I 
> charge $30 for it, and sell 700 copies, I've recovered my costs. Those 700 
> people have already bought the program, so won't be buying it again. If it 
> will cost me $5,000 to upgrade or modify the app, but I'll basically be 
> giving those upgrades away for free, then I'm now $5,000 in the hole. I don't 
> go in to business to lose money.
> 
> So, saying that there is no incentive to improve a program after everyone has 
> already bought it means that there is no financial incentive to upgrade a 
> program, and that is a matter of fact. You can argue that all day based on 
> emotional feelings about the matter, but no business will lose large sums of 
> money to please customers that have already bought the product. If they're an 
> individual, their family will complain loudly about the hardship. If they're 
> a private corporation, the bank will have words with them. If they're a 
> public corporation, their stock holders will vote them off the board of 
> directors. It doesn't matter what they say. That's how it is.
> 
> Anyway, I'll add my vote for laser scanners support on the phone, not the web 
> site. If I wanted to use the web site, there is UPCDatabase, and many others. 
> I suppose that they're doing as best as can be accomplished with a camera, 
> but a camera is just not designed to work the way with bar codes that blind 
> people need to work. Please give us the option of a laser scanner. Some of us 
> aren't cheap. We just want the software to work well.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Howell
> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 5:45 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: A warning about Digit-Eyes
> 
> Nancy,
> 
> I neglected to comment on this statement, but I agree and that statement was 
> rather insulting.  I have

RE: Using a Mac Mini without a monitor

[Bryan Smart]

It just doesn't. All new displays (displayport, DVI, HDMI) somehow are able to 
report their supported resolutions to the computer, even when they don't have 
mains power. Don't know how it works electronically, but it does.

Bryan 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Dan Roy
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 2:53 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Using a Mac Mini without a monitor

This is a great explanation, but, how come it works even if the monitor is 
turned off.  Since there's no signal, I am not sure why it still thinks there 
is!!


On Jun 28, 2010, at 8:44 AM, Frank Carmickle wrote:

> Hello Bryan
> 
> On Jun 28, 2010, at 5:45 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:
> 
>> Because apps like Safari decide how much information that they can show at 
>> once based on the current display resolution. The Mac determines the 
>> available screen resolutions by determining the type of monitor that is 
>> connected. When no monitor is connected, no screen resolution is defined, 
>> and so any program that depends on screen resolution will go wacko, as it 
>> thinks you have a screen with size 0. Can't fit a lot of information on a 
>> screen with size 0. Most programmers never test for that situation, because 
>> they can't test without some sort of monitor connected. Apple could fix 
>> Safari, but that's just one program among many that will go bonkers with a 
>> size 0 screen.
>> 
> You are absolutely correct.  I thought that Apple could just implement a 
> dummy video driver that one could set their own parameters.  Do you see any 
> reason why this wouldn't work?
> 
> --FC
> 
> --
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RE: A warning about Digit-Eyes

[Bryan Smart]

Well, I have an iPhone 4, am a left-handed person, and haven't had any problems.

Of course, I'm using an extremely thin hard plastic slip-case to protect my 
$700, mostly glass, phone, as just about anyone reasonable would that doesn't 
have a bottomless bank account. Yes, it looks nice, all glass and stainless 
steel. It isn't real durable that way. I'd like something else, but I like what 
it can do more than I dislike how it is made. And, besides, I can fix its 
construction issues with a case. It's kind of like, do what you gotta do to 
make the tech work for you, or else chill out on Symbian or Windows Mobile, 
where the accessible apps are few and those OSes are dropping accessibility 
support in about a year. As a blind guy, I can do so much more with my iPhone 
than I could with any of my Nokias, so I can overlook a flaw, particularly if 
it doesn't affect me.

I know that, if you hold it just in the right way, without the case on, that 
you can cause the signal strength to reduce. I could do that with my Nokia E71, 
though, so don't know why it is such a big deal that it happens on iPhone.

If you don't like the iPhone, then more power to what ever choice suits you. If 
you like the idea of the iPhone, then, I suggest that you go and try one out 
for yourself. Most places will let you do a 30 day return if you're not 
satisfied. You might find out that the majorly hyped supposed problems aren't a 
problem for you, either. Since I haven't seen stories about people returning 
their iPhones in droves, I'd say that there are about 2,000,000 people by now 
that agree with me.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Simon F
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:56 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: A warning about Digit-Eyes

Yeah apple have done great things, that's why they don't appear to be 
correcting The issue with the loss of signal on the iPhone 4, when it's is held 
in a left hand and the signal is lost.
 
 When they fix this issue, they'll sell a lot more. 
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Lawlor
Sent: Tuesday, 13 July 2010 4:15 p.m.
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A warning about Digit-Eyes

Maybe an RFID reader will come in the next iPhone or some other idevice. I 
think it is just amazing what Apple has done with these devices thus far. I 
personally would like to see some sort of haptic feedback so we can get a 
tactual sense of icons and controls. I know Apple is working on this.
Patents have been filed by Apple regarding methods for haptic feedback. 

Doug



Sent from my iPhone

On 2010-07-12, at 5:40 PM, Scott Howell  wrote:

> Doug, I think this was something APple had explored and may eventually 
> do. Apple has all sorts of ideas floating about. :) On Jul 12, 2010, 
> at
2:18 PM, Doug Lawlor wrote:
> 
>> No RFID reader in iPhone 4 as far as I can tell. My knowledge is 
>> limited
on this subject as well. It may depend on the scanner being used. 
>> 
>> Doug
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 2010-07-12, at 6:44 AM, Scott Howell  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hey Doug,
>>> 
>>> We are probably straying a bit off topic for the list, but to answer
your question, I really do not know. It may be for capturing information about 
a specific product, you would have to get pretty close. The distances you refer 
too is more useful for warehouses, dockyards, and such. I am not sure if the 
ability to read is based on the scanner or the RFID tag itself.
So, I think you can pretty much figure my knowledge is quite limited, other 
than what I read. I do not know when Apple might put these readers in the 
phone, but I thought it was to be included in version 4, but that I believe did 
not happen yet.
>>> On Jul 11, 2010, at 10:10 PM, Doug Lawlor wrote:
>>> 
 That's interesting, RFID would be much better for identifying 
 products
because you would not have to point a device at the product in question to 
identify it. Just get a reader in the general direztion of the of the product 
and we should be able to identify it. As I understand it, the range of RFID is 
quite large, something in the range of 30 feet. How do we determine a product 
when we have a number of products in one area, a covert full of cans and 
bottles, each presenting a signal that has a 30 foot radius? 
 
 Doug
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On 2010-07-11, at 9:33 PM, Scott Howell  wrote:
 
> Doug,
> 
> I do not know how many products have them now, but I suspect more 
> than
we know. For example, I recently learned that the recycle bins our county 
provides us has a RFID chip imbedded in them. Apparently the data collected 
from the chips let's the county know how often we put the bins out. RFID chips 
are being used more now because of the speed and ability to collect data on 
products b

RE: Bluetooth serial port profile on iOS 4.

[Bryan Smart]

Because of the Braille display support, I also thought that this was possible.  
However, I can't tract down any information about SPP in iOS 4.

Besides Braille displays (which are supported), there are GPS receivers that 
work, too. They have to be using a serial connection. There doesn't seem to be 
any public way to do it, unless...

iOS is really OS X stripped down, which is BSD. It's possible that there isn't 
a high level IOKit sort of way to get at the serial port, but it may be as 
simpple as read/write with a TTY device. There are lots of people on the web 
that think so, but I can't find any success stories.

This is very surprising. The iPhone is great in a lot of ways, but I'm 
occasionally brought up short by how locked down it is in a particular area.

It seems that the iPhone might be too technically limited at the moment to do 
what we want.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Aman Singer
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:33 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Bluetooth serial port profile on iOS 4.

Hi, Mike.
I  can confirm that this didn't work on any  3.x version of the 
software. I did try it with a Touch and Phone running 3.x, and the results were 
the same, they seemed not even to see the receiver. Now, however, we know the 
underlying code is there because the Braille displays are using it.
If you have a few minutes to give it a shot, I, for one, would be most 
appreciative. 
Aman  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 7:41 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Bluetooth serial port profile on iOS 4.

I may give this another try, perhaps it's changed in version 4, it didn't work 
in version 3 with a gps receiver, apple does keep pretty tight control over 
what you can use and what you can't, sometimes too much in my opinion.
On Jul 11, 2010, at 11:04 PM, Aman Singer wrote:

> Hi, all.
>   Recently, in an interesting discussion about bar code reading 
> solutions for the iPhone, Brian mentioned that bar code scanners use 
> the Bluetooth serial port profile as, of course, do braille displays.
> I'm just wondering if anyone has tried an external GPS receiver on the 
> iPhone. I'm sure that the iPhone does support the profile, simply 
> because braille displays use it, but is this support available to 
> other applications? I do not currently have access to the phone to try 
> it
myself.
> Thanks.
> Aman
> 
> 
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RE: iPhone signal loss

[Bryan Smart]

Well, 4.01 came out, and I tried to install it. Half way through, iTunes gave 
me error 3004 (what-ever that is), and stopped. Now, the iPhone won't talk, 
won't reboot (black screen), and, when I attach it to the Mac, and iTunes 
starts, iTunes says that it is unable to connect to the iPhone software update 
server. I'm obviously online, since I'm sending this message from the same 
computer where I was trying to update. Looked online, and some other people are 
having this problem, too, with no solution. Been trying to re-update for about 
3 hours now, but no luck. Doesn't look like there is any way to back out the 
update, or reset the phone and restore from a backup, since I get this error 
every time I attach the iPhone. Looks like my phone has been successfully 
bricked.

Maybe Apple tech support will have a suggestion tomorrow, but, since it appears 
that the phone isn't actually turning on anymore, I'm not sure what they'll 
have me do. Take out the battery and put it back in? That will be a trick.

I'm out of town on business. It was a stupid stupid thing to do to let anything 
of mine be updated while I'm out of town. I suspect I'll be wasting expensive 
time tomorrow tracking down an Apple store, instead of working.

This sort of stuff is what we supposedly pay more to avoid with Apple products. 
Extremely disappointed.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ben Mustill-Rose
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:44 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: iPhone signal loss

The feedback from the software update will be interesting to say the least.
People will appear to be getting less signal all the time, regardless of if 
they are left handed or not. The issue of signal los will still be present, but 
since everyone will appear to be getting less signal all the time, it won't be 
as noticeable.

On 15/07/2010, Carolyn  wrote:
> Now if only someone could get at&t's attention.  I drop more calls 
> than I do pounds on a diet!  Ok, so my diet has been afailure lately, 
> but so has at&t in my book.
>
> Carolyn
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Chris Blouch
>   To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:12 PM
>   Subject: Re: iPhone signal loss
>
>
>   I guess we'll find out at their press conference tomorrow at 10AM 
> pacific time. Maybe the lawsuit caught their attention.
>
>
> http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/14/apple-to-hold-press-conference-on-i
> phone-4-this-friday/
>
>
> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/01/apple_sued_over_iphone_4
> _reception_issues.html
>
>   CB
>
>   Sarah Alawami wrote:
> I don't nitice any problems with the left handedness of using the 
> phone. I get great signel over all right handed or left handed, in or 
> out of the case and this isn with the new phone.
>
> S
> On Jul 13, 2010, at 12:56 AM, Simon F wrote:
>
>   Yeah apple have done great things, that's why they don't appear to 
> be correcting The issue with the loss of signal on the iPhone 4, when 
> it's is held in a left hand and the signal is lost.
>
> When they fix this issue, they'll sell a lot more.
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Lawlor
> Sent: Tuesday, 13 July 2010 4:15 p.m.
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: A warning about Digit-Eyes
>
> Maybe an RFID reader will come in the next iPhone or some other 
> idevice. I think it is just amazing what Apple has done with these 
> devices thus far. I personally would like to see some sort of haptic 
> feedback so we can get a tactual sense of icons and controls. I know Apple is 
> working on this.
> Patents have been filed by Apple regarding methods for haptic feedback.
>
> Doug
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2010-07-12, at 5:40 PM, Scott Howell  wrote:
>
> Doug, I think this was something APple had explored and may 
> eventually do. Apple has all sorts of ideas floating about. :) On Jul 12, 
> 2010, at
>   2:18 PM, Doug Lawlor wrote:
> No RFID reader in iPhone 4 as far as I can tell. My knowledge is limited
> on this subject as well. It may depend on the scanner being used.
> Doug
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2010-07-12, at 6:44 AM, Scott Howell  wrote:
>
> Hey Doug,
>
> We are probably straying a bit off topic for the list, but to answer
>   your question, I really do not know. It may be for capturing 
> information about a specific product, you would have to get pretty 
> close. The distances you refer too is more useful for warehouses, 
> dockyards, and such. I am not sure if the ability to read is based on 
> the scanner or the RFID tag itself.
> So, I think you can pretty much figure my knowledge is quite limited, 
> other than what I read. I do not know when Apple might put these 
> readers in the phone, but I thought it was to be included in version 
>

RE: A new mac accessory

[Bryan Smart]

He is right.

I have spent a lot of time in the last few months studying different software 
development technologies on the Mac, including Applescript. VoiceOver can be 
controlled from scripts, but those scripts must be manually activated. 
VoiceOver has the keyboard commander, and scripts can also be started from 
other macro packages, but they can't be started in response to something 
happening on screen.

With Windows screen readers, they can run a piece of script to read you a 
window, a status bar, etc when that area of the screen changes. With the Mac, 
though, , there isn't any way right now to trigger a script when something 
happens in the user interface. This means that it isn't possible to use scripts 
to automatically let you know when an important event happens, or to 
automatically read you important information.

Beyond that, when people say that VoiceOver supports scripting, what is meant 
is that VoiceOver can be controlled from scripts. That is not the same thing as 
the scripting support in a Windows screen reader. Your script can tell 
VoiceOver to perform any of its commands. You can say "move right" or "read 
contents of VoiceOver cursor", and those commands will be performed just like 
you triggered them from one of the commanders. You don't get access to the user 
interface's object model. You can't make a script that jumps you directly to a 
particular control, because you can't access the user interface object model to 
search for the control, and you can't command VoiceOver to move the VoiceOver 
cursor to an arbitrary user interface object.

There are ways to work around some of this. You can use the System Events 
scripting support to manipulate the user interface, but it isn't a very 
straight forward approach, and most newbie developers won't wrap their heads 
around it easily. There are systems that simplify the manipulation of the UI. 
The PFiddlesoft frameworks provide an easy way to receive events from, and 
control the UI, through the same accessibility frameworks that are used by 
VoiceOver. However, you still can't run scripts in response to events, and 
there are licensing restrictions on the distribution of those frameworks. Macro 
packages like QuicKeys and Keyboard Maestro offer a lot more triggering options 
the the ultra-basic VoiceOver keyboard commander, but they cost between $40 and 
$60 per computer.

So, right now, scripting for VO is extremely basic, and not useful for most 
situations where you'd really need scripting.

Maybe Apple will come up with something better in a future version of VO. Maybe 
some of the makers of the macro apps will start to support UI and/or 
accessibility events as triggers. Either would help a lot.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of .dan.
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 2:03 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: A new mac accessory


"This all sounds good. If you learn apple script you can get the same thing 
with out putting out any bucks."

How so?  How can script duplicate universal fine grained control and power of 
dos screen access?  Even when directly controled by keystrokes vo can not do 
this so how does having a script improve upon it?

In performing some tasks that a macro script can do with a keystroke perhaps.  
In having that same script triggered by text appearing at a particular place on 
the screen, how?


XB
 IC|XC

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RE: accessible screen sharing software

[Bryan Smart]

No.
 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of chad baker
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 12:26 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: accessible screen sharing software

Hi is there any accessible screen sharing apps?
Not sure if this has been covered.
thanks

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RE: NAS and Time Machine

[Bryan Smart]

Hi Kevin.

I looked in to this a while back.

It's too bad about its limitations, as Time Capsule would be great for this 
task. It's an all-in-one appliance for most home-server tasks: router, wireless 
access point, print server, and simple NAS. If it could work as an FTP server, 
and could work reliably as a file server, then it would cover everything. It 
only has one internal drive, but you can get the drive redundancy by attaching 
an external drive to its USB port, and it will mirror the internal drive to the 
external.

The main problem for me, which I'm sure that you've encountered, is that the 
router portion sucks. It is missing lots of features that are standard on most 
other routers now, but the one that I absolutely can't live without is quality 
of service control. Without QOS, voice over IP and games can't get stable 
performance. Any other network service can momentarily suck all of the 
bandwidth, and cause your call to break up, or your game to freeze up. Of 
course, you can disable the router function, and attach it to your existing 
router, but, as you've discovered, without the router functions, you're much 
better off financially to buy a NAS and cheap print server.

Anyway, about how to get your NAS to work. The NAS will work if it can do two 
things.

First, you have to be able to format the drives as Mac HFS journaled. Time 
machine depends on features in the HFS files system in order to handle its 
incremental backups.

Second, as far as I understand, the NAS needs to be able to support AFP. I 
can't remember the reason at the moment, but I remember reading that, while the 
Mac can connect to NFS and SMB shares, Time Machine can't.

I've seen some NASes now listing Time Machine support specifically. Looking for 
that on the spec would be your safest bet. Some of them even list that they'll 
work as an iTunes server (hosting your library).

You still should try Googling for more info, though.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kevin Shaw
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 7:34 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: NAS and Time Machine

Similar to Time Capsule, but not an Apple product. The drive will show up as a 
standard disk in Finder, but I am wondering if Time Machine will do automatic 
backups to that drive.

Kevin

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RE: screen curtain

[Bryan Smart]

Yep. It doesn't turn off the screen, it only displays solid black. The 
backlight is still on, using power, though. To prove that, get someone sighted 
to look at the screen from an extreme angle (it will glow), or look at the 
Apple logo on the back of the monitor (it is lit by the display backlight, and 
will still glow).

Bryan 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 11:23 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: screen curtain

For saving the battery, rather than using the screen curtain, I would turn the 
display brightness all the way down to 0, that will totally turn off the screen 
lighting.
On Jul 25, 2010, at 4:20 PM, John D. Lipsey wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> I enable my screen curtain because A: I don't like people being able to look 
> over my shoulder while I'm using my computer, and B: I assume that it saves a 
> bit of battery power.  However, I was under the impression that the screen 
> curtain would behave like it does on the IPhone and reactivate whenever I 
> turn on voiceover or my computer. Should this in fact be the case? Or is it 
> normal to have to restart the screen curtain each time you restart 
> voiceover/the computer?
> 
> Thanks again for all the help.
> 
> 
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RE: Magic Trackpad

[Bryan Smart]

This is true, but and important thing to know is that the Magic Track Pad is 
80% larger than the MacBook track pad, which is already quite a bit larger than 
the typical laptop track pad. VO is easier to work with the MacBook track pad 
than with the iPhone, due to the increased size, and I expect that the Magic 
Track Pad will be even easier.

I expect that the Magic Track Pad, since it works over blue tooth, will make 
the ideal remote control for the new rumored Apple TV box, when/if it comes out.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kevin Mattingly
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:50 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Magic Trackpad

for those of us who have mac desktops or mini's, it gives us a trackpad like 
the one on the Macbook. Chriss Moore told me about it but I didn't expect it to 
be available until September. Since it is, I went ahead and ordered it. It is 
supposed to be here by August 3rd.

Kev

On Jul 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Carolyn wrote:



What does the magic trackpad do differently?
 
Carolyn

- Original Message -
From: Chris Moore  
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: Magic Trackpad

I have just spoken to someone in Apple Sales in Ireland, and 
YES it supports VO :)

On 27 Jul 2010, at 15:20, Blake Sinnett wrote:



Hi folks,
 
Just wondered if anyone plans to try the Magic Trackpad 
and see if it works with VoiceOver? I'd love to have one if it works.
 
There's a software update for the Magic Trackpad, and 
you must be running 10.6.4.
 
Thanks,
Blake



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RE: word processing and spred sheets on ipad

[Bryan Smart]

Simon, it is usable, but you may not actually want to use it.  I had an iPad, 
and I tried this stuff, but I didn't do it a lot, and I haven't tried it in a 
while, so I'll probably make some mistakes in my description. There will 
undoubtedly be some iPad people that tell me that I overlooked something. 
That's fine, but here is the general idea.

So, you want to put a file on your iPad to edit while you're away from home. 
You know that you can't just hook up the iPad to the computer and copy the file 
over, as the iPad security doesn't allow that.

Here is what you must do. You must add the file to iTunes, including, I think, 
marking it for sync. Then, you must start a sync of your iPad with iTunes. When 
that completes, you need to go in to the iWork program on the iPad that you 
want to use, like Pages, and locate the document. Except, you can't use it 
right away. You must import the document in to Pages (I think it converts it or 
something).

Now, you can edit all you want.

However, when you get back home, and want to print it, you must go through the 
process in reverse. You have to go in to Pages on the iPad, load your document, 
export it to a regular document, hook up to the Mac, sync with iTunes, and then 
get it back in to your Word Processor.

Basically, while iPad and iPhone programs can save and load files, they only 
have access to the files that they specifically create, or that are brought in 
to them through a sync with iTunes or over the Internet. Programs on the iPad 
and iPhone can't access any file that was created by another program on the 
same device, nor can they share their files with other iPad/iPhone programs. 
You also can't access any documents or files that a program makes from a 
computer, unless that program is authorized to sync through iTunes. That's why 
programs like the Daisy book reader can't let you transfer books directly to 
your device. They must waste time with built-in FTP servers or store files 
remotely on a server somewhere. For the most part, I don't need to do the sort 
of things with a phone to where this is a big enough of a pain to me, and so I 
use an iPhone. However, for most computing tasks, this is way too much of a 
lock down. I mean, if Apple wants to lock up the programs, that's one thing, 
but they should at least have a common place on the iPhone/iPad where programs 
can store and share files with each other. Like I said, if I can only get a 
voice memo out of the voice memo recording program by using its built-in 
function to e-mail it to me, then I'll deal, but trying to undertake large 
projects on one of these devices is a frustrating activity that I'd never 
recommend. These devices just are not made for producing content. They're meant 
to be very nice Internet terminals.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Simon Fogarty
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:16 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: word processing and spred sheets on ipad

And it's useable with VO on  the iPad?


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Shaw
Sent: Tuesday, 27 July 2010 1:26 a.m.
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: word processing and spred sheets on ipad

The full iWorks suite is available specifically; for iPad. This includes Pages, 
Numbers and Keynote. 

Good luck,
Kevin

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RE: accessibel navigation app for the iphone

[Bryan Smart]

I know that this doesn't help you, but I use it routinely on the iPhone 4, and 
it is working fine, at least on this model.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of joseph
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:15 AM
To: MacVisionaries
Subject: Re: accessibel navigation app for the iphone

Hi Jeff

I've used navigon but since they updated it about a month ago, like many users, 
the app is crashing when i select an address to navigate too.  I emailed the 
company with this problem, but no reply so far.
Any other suggestion?

best

Jeff Berwick wrote:
> I am using a program called Navigon.  It works quite well.  I believe it is 
> about $50 in the iTunes store right now.
> Jeff
>
> On 2010-07-31, at 5:32 AM, joseph wrote:
>
> > hi listers
> >
> > does anyone know of any accessible navigation app for the iphone?
> >
> > thank you in advance
> >
> > best
> >
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RE: word processing and spred sheets on ipad

[Bryan Smart]

I can not say with certainty, but I thought that I read that it isn't possible.

I know that, with apps like Drop Box, you can certainly view and open your 
files on the remote server for viewing on your iPhone/iPad, but you're really 
just opening them inside the Drop Box app, using its own built-in viewers. Just 
like other apps, Drop Box can access files over the Internet, and can even 
download them in to its private sandbox on the iPhone/iPad, but it can't give 
other applications on the device access to the files.

The flash memory on the iPhone isn't so much of a disk or hard drive, as it is 
a kind of temporary cache memory. The way the iPhone works, all of the real 
storage of data and heavy processing is supposed to happen on a server that is 
reached via the Internet. The flash memory is mainly there so that the iPhone 
can hold a local temporary copy of data that would be too slow or large to 
constantly stream from the net connection, like program code, sounds and 
graphics that make up an app's interface, etc.

Apple didn't plan to let anyone make native programs for the iPhone in the 
beginning, so I guess they thought that this wouldn't matter. Later, when 
people started to make apps, they held on to this model, because, by preventing 
programs from accessing each other, they thought that they could prevent people 
from gaining access to protected content.

Now, they want the iPad to be able to be used for desktop-like tasks, but, with 
all of the app isolation, you must jump through hoops to share data that has 
been created on the device itself.

Apple's design choices are usually centered around making computing tasks 
simple by removing unnecessary choices in order to streamline a task. You lose 
flexibility, but the result is that, for most people, the program does what 
they want, with a minimum amount of fuss, and with little or no tech 
understanding required. They've done such a great job with the App Store, 
simplifying the processes of paying for, and installing software, down to the 
point where a complete tecnophobe could do it. iTunes and the iPod simplify the 
tasks of organizing and working with a music library. However, I find it very 
funny that, due to their choices, something as fundamental to a computer as 
word processing, requires all sorts of explanations regarding how to 
import/export between native format, how to selectively sync content, and how 
to put documents in to, and take them out of, iTunes on the Mac. Not that there 
is anything that could help the situation right now, given how locked down the 
iOS devices are. Anything that requires that you get data from your own 
devices, rather than a server somewhere, is profoundly frustrating. Think of 
the people making the Daisy players for iOS. Most players need only that you 
copy a book from your computer to a memory card, and put that card in to the 
player. With iOS devices, it is necessary to explain to people about how they 
must get both devices on to the same Wi-Fi network, but not just any public 
wi-fi network, but a private wi-fi network that allows intra-client 
communication. Then, they need to download, install, and learn to use an FTP 
client, connecting to the iOS device using a long code (an IP address), that 
they must listen to on the device and type in to their computer. That isn't too 
bad for tech types. For most people that buy an iOS device for its simplicity, 
and have no problem accomplishing most tasks, talking about special wi-fi 
networks, ftp clients, IP addresses, and other junk is enough to make them say 
"why bother. I'll get a Victor Reader or Book Sense". In these cases, the iOS 
device is losing out because it is too complicated.

While I know that the main motivation for the iOS devices working this way is 
for security, the conspiracy theorist in me says that this inability to easily 
use your own content is not such an accident. It makes everyone a lot more 
money if you must pay to get what you want from the cloud, rather than using 
what you already have. Of course, techy users can find ways to partially use 
their content on the new devices, but non-techy users will often decide that it 
is just too complicated, and that they'd rather be doing other things with 
their time. Also, some of us wouldn't need to keep and maintain so many huge 
personal collections, if we could get what we want from the cloud.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 4:59 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: word processing and spred sheets on ipad

If you have a mobile me account, can you not save the documents to iDisk?
On 30 Jul 2010, at 18:46, Bryan Smart wrote:

> Simon, it is usable, but you may not actually want to use it.  I had an iPad, 
> and I tried th

RE: Is there a blind mac programmers list?

[Bryan Smart]

There is a Google group. It's called "mv-dev".

Bryan 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Doug Lawlor
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 4:33 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Is there a blind mac programmers list?

Hello list,
Is there a blind mac programmers list? I thought I heard of one mentioned 
sometime ago but can't remember the name of it. 

Thanks,
Doug

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Interface Builder is accessible. Programming and creating your own user interfaces

[Bryan Smart]

Hi everyone. First, I'm new to this list, so I'm not sure if someone has 
already posted about this here. I'm writing to the list to make you all aware 
of an exciting development over on the MV-Dev Google Group that will impact all 
VoiceOver users positively, and will impact VoiceOver users that are 
programmers even more so.

As some of you might know, XCode is the main software development environment 
for the Mac. It is a huge system, but the two main tools are the XCode 
integrated development environment (where you write your code and build the 
code in to finished programs), and Interface Builder (where you design the 
menus, windows, and other parts of the interface that people will use to 
operate your program). Over the last few years, the accessibility of XCode has 
been greatly improving, and, currently, a blind programmer can operate most 
every part of it that they would need to create programs. However, Interface 
Builder has been a different story. Interface Builder requires that programmers 
create the new program's interface by dragging user interface objects from a 
library window on to a design surface that represents the program's eventual 
interface. VoiceOver's drag and drop features weren't compatible with Interface 
Builder, so blind programmers weren't able to add user interface objects to 
their programs.

Recently, though, a few of us on the MV-Dev Google Group have figured out an 
alternative approach. We're still working out some details regarding the best 
way to arrange objects, but blind programmers on the Mac can now use Interface 
Builder to create their program's user interface by adding objects to menus and 
windows, can position objects on design surfaces, and can edit the outlets and 
other programmatic connections between objects and classes in their code. 
Basically, we've figured out a workaround. No scripts required.

Before our recent discovery, I'd searched the web extensively in the hope that 
someone had worked out a way for blind programmers to use Interface Builder, 
but all I saw was thread after thread on the Apple Accessibility list 
MacVisionaries, and other forums where people had asked, but had come up empty 
handed. I hope that those that were discouraged in the past will be excited 
about this development, and will get involved with programming for the Mac.

If you know a VoiceOver user that is interested in programming for the Mac, 
please let them know about the MV-Dev Google Group and what is now possible. 
Since we can now create software, complete with graphical user interfaces, they 
should join us and get up to speed. The fact that blind coders can now create 
applications with interfaces will undoubtedly mean that we can expect to see an 
increasing number of software tools to improve how we use Macs.

Here is the link to the Google Group:

http://groups.google.com/group/mv-dev

Bryan
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RE: Interface Builder is accessible. Programming and creating your own user interfaces

[Bryan Smart]

Jonathan's blog post has most of the info.
http://programaraciegas.weblog.discapnet.es/articulo.aspx?idA=1599

There is very little info written up about this yet, since we discovered the 
workaround this week.

If you want to check out the MV-dev group for blind Mac developers, then go 
here:

http://groups.google.com/group/mv-dev

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Chris Blouch
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 12:51 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Interface Builder is accessible. Programming and creating your own 
user interfaces

Is there a web page or some details about the technique which doesn't require 
my joining the mv-dev mailing list to view the content? I tried using 
mail-archive.com (which archived macvisionaries in a nice searchable way) but 
couldn't find mv-dev.

CB

Bryan Smart wrote:
> Hi everyone. First, I'm new to this list, so I'm not sure if someone has 
> already posted about this here. I'm writing to the list to make you all aware 
> of an exciting development over on the MV-Dev Google Group that will impact 
> all VoiceOver users positively, and will impact VoiceOver users that are 
> programmers even more so.
>
> As some of you might know, XCode is the main software development environment 
> for the Mac. It is a huge system, but the two main tools are the XCode 
> integrated development environment (where you write your code and build the 
> code in to finished programs), and Interface Builder (where you design the 
> menus, windows, and other parts of the interface that people will use to 
> operate your program). Over the last few years, the accessibility of XCode 
> has been greatly improving, and, currently, a blind programmer can operate 
> most every part of it that they would need to create programs. However, 
> Interface Builder has been a different story. Interface Builder requires that 
> programmers create the new program's interface by dragging user interface 
> objects from a library window on to a design surface that represents the 
> program's eventual interface. VoiceOver's drag and drop features weren't 
> compatible with Interface Builder, so blind programmers weren't able to add 
> user interface objects to their programs.
>
> Recently, though, a few of us on the MV-Dev Google Group have figured out an 
> alternative approach. We're still working out some details regarding the best 
> way to arrange objects, but blind programmers on the Mac can now use 
> Interface Builder to create their program's user interface by adding objects 
> to menus and windows, can position objects on design surfaces, and can edit 
> the outlets and other programmatic connections between objects and classes in 
> their code. Basically, we've figured out a workaround. No scripts required.
>
> Before our recent discovery, I'd searched the web extensively in the hope 
> that someone had worked out a way for blind programmers to use Interface 
> Builder, but all I saw was thread after thread on the Apple Accessibility 
> list MacVisionaries, and other forums where people had asked, but had come up 
> empty handed. I hope that those that were discouraged in the past will be 
> excited about this development, and will get involved with programming for 
> the Mac.
>
> If you know a VoiceOver user that is interested in programming for the Mac, 
> please let them know about the MV-Dev Google Group and what is now possible. 
> Since we can now create software, complete with graphical user interfaces, 
> they should join us and get up to speed. The fact that blind coders can now 
> create applications with interfaces will undoubtedly mean that we can expect 
> to see an increasing number of software tools to improve how we use Macs.
>
> Here is the link to the Google Group:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/mv-dev
>
> Bryan
>   
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Using Automator with VoiceOver

[Bryan Smart]

Has anyone here spent much time with Automator?

Most of the program works well, but there is a very big hole. It seems almost 
impossible to use variables.

When you create a variable by adding a Set Variable action to the workflow, and 
then try to use pop-up menus in other actions to select the variable that you 
created, the names of the variables don't appear in the menu. In places where I 
should hear variable names, all I hear are menus with blank items that don't 
announce anything. The menus in general read, since there might be an item in 
the menu called "New Variable...", but the other entries, where I should be 
able to select from existing variables, are all blank entries.

There is a table in the window that shows all of the existing variables. I can 
tell that the table contains rows through VoiceOver's announcement of current 
row, but VoiceOver doesn't read any content for the row. So, I can't hear the 
name or any other status info about the variable.

Since there doesn't seem to be any way to edit or assign variables other than 
using the user interface of Automator, it looks like there is no way to use 
variables.

I've gone through the menus, but can't find any sort of adjustment to the 
appearance of Automator that would help me out. Has anyone else had better 
success with variables?

Bryan
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RE: A Question Regarding MS Office for Mac

[Bryan Smart]

Office on the Mac is fairly inexpensive when compared to the PC version.

Mail won't do any of that stuff. Apple doesn't want to license the full tech 
that would be required to completely integrate with Exchange. It would be nice 
if they did, since Exchange isn't going away for a very very long time. It's 
great that you can read basic e-mail and look at your Exchange calendar with 
Mail or on an iPad/iPhone, but that isn't enough. Exchange is a full personal 
information management system that automatically syncs, over the air, between 
all of your devices. I can start Outlook on any of my computers, or grab a 
phone or PDA, and I'm looking at all of my critical work info. I don't sync it. 
Its just there, on all of them, when I need it. That sort of tech is mandatory 
unless you have your own personal secretary. So, it will be good to have Office 
as an alternative to Mail. Would be nice if Apple had something like Exchange 
that could even be used as an alternative, but they don't.

If you don't use Exchange, you most likely wouldn't see the point to these 
features or care. That's alright. I can't tell you how much it increases my 
efficiency, and helps me earn more money with less time. Paying a silly $100 - 
$200 fee is nothing, as it will make that back easily.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Nicolai Svendsen
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 6:44 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A Question Regarding MS Office for Mac

Hi,

Seems a lot of money to spend if you only need those few extra options. 
Besides, it'll probably happen even for iWork, Mail and iCal. I'm such an 
optimist right now.

Regards,
Nic
Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com
Skype: Kvalme
MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
AIM: cincinster
yahoo Messenger: cin368
Facebook Profile
My Twitter

On Apr 26, 2010, at 9:46 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:

> Well, for those of us that use Exchange for information management, we'd sure 
> like to be able to run a version of Outlook on the Mac. Mail and ICal can get 
> to some of that info on an Exchange server, but not all of it. Right now, if 
> you want to change a server-side e-mail filtering rule, for example, you must 
> start Outlook in a virtual machine or under BootCamp to make that adjustment.
> 
> I also don't think that Pages supports all of the formatting options of Word. 
> That isn't so important when you're making your own files, but it matters 
> when you're exchanging files with other people that are using Word.
> 
> So, Office isn't essential, but many of us would appreciate it.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicolai Svendsen
> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 2:32 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: A Question Regarding MS Office for Mac
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Why buy MS Office for Macs? I'm still personally trying to justify the 
> purchase of iWork. it doesn't seem like MS Office has more than iWork does. I 
> never really liked Office because it always felt sluggish to me as opposed to 
> iWork.
> 
> I'm sure someone a lot smarter than me can tell me why.
> 
> Regards,
> Nic
> Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com
> Skype: Kvalme
> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
> AIM: cincinster
> yahoo Messenger: cin368
> Facebook Profile
> My Twitter
> 
> On Apr 26, 2010, at 8:20 AM, M. Taylor wrote:
> 
>> James,
>> 
>> Thank you for the feedback.
>> 
>> That's the breaks.  I am going into purchase the software for a 
>> friend's child who needs it so she can work with Office for Windows 
>> which is the standard at her college.  Surprising as I thought most 
>> schools used Macs for everything educational.
>> 
>> Fortunately the college student is sighted so she won't have any issues.
>> 
>> Again, thank you.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> Get to know yourself as you get to know me on The Secret Life of Mark 
>> Marcus Live Talk Show http://candleshore.com/secrets -Original
>> Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James & Nash
>> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:11 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: A Question Regarding MS Office for Mac
>> 
>> No it isn't. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Apparently, 
>> Microsoft will be releasing their latest version at some point this 
>> year, which is reportedly going to be VO accessible, but who knows.
>> 
>> TC
>>

RE: A Question Regarding MS Office for Mac

[Bryan Smart]

Yes, but there are actually two interfaces. There is a rich client and a simple 
client. The rich client is a powerful web app, but depends on Windows features 
in order to work. The simple client will work on the Mac, but, since it's 
targetted at cell phones, it lacks a lot of features, including setting mail 
rules.

Bryan 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Chris Blouch
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 10:17 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A Question Regarding MS Office for Mac

I thought exchange had a web interface. Can those couple thinkgs like mail 
rules and filters be set up that way?

CB

Bryan Smart wrote: 

Well, for those of us that use Exchange for information management, 
we'd sure like to be able to run a version of Outlook on the Mac. Mail and ICal 
can get to some of that info on an Exchange server, but not all of it. Right 
now, if you want to change a server-side e-mail filtering rule, for example, 
you must start Outlook in a virtual machine or under BootCamp to make that 
adjustment.

I also don't think that Pages supports all of the formatting options of 
Word. That isn't so important when you're making your own files, but it matters 
when you're exchanging files with other people that are using Word.

So, Office isn't essential, but many of us would appreciate it.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicolai Svendsen
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 2:32 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A Question Regarding MS Office for Mac

Hi,

Why buy MS Office for Macs? I'm still personally trying to justify the 
purchase of iWork. it doesn't seem like MS Office has more than iWork does. I 
never really liked Office because it always felt sluggish to me as opposed to 
iWork.

I'm sure someone a lot smarter than me can tell me why.

Regards,
Nic
Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com
Skype: Kvalme
MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
AIM: cincinster
yahoo Messenger: cin368
Facebook Profile
My Twitter

On Apr 26, 2010, at 8:20 AM, M. Taylor wrote:

  

James,

Thank you for the feedback.

That's the breaks.  I am going into purchase the software for a 
friend's child who needs it so she can work with Office for 
Windows 
which is the standard at her college.  Surprising as I thought 
most 
schools used Macs for everything educational.

Fortunately the college student is sighted so she won't have 
any issues.

Again, thank you.

Mark

Get to know yourself as you get to know me on The Secret Life 
of Mark 
Marcus Live Talk Show http://candleshore.com/secrets 
-Original 
Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James & 
Nash
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 9:11 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A Question Regarding MS Office for Mac

No it isn't. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Apparently, 
Microsoft 
will be releasing their latest version at some point this year, 
which 
is reportedly going to be VO accessible, but who knows.

TC
James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny
On 26 Apr 2010, at 01:56, M. Taylor wrote:



Hello Everyone,

In a couple of days I am going to the Apple store in 
hopes of 
purchasing Office for the Mac.

I know there has been much discussion on this subject 
but I cannot
  

remember


the finer points so I ask the following:

Is MS Office for the Mac VoiceOver accessible?  

What is the current version of Office for the Mac?

Thank you all,

Mark


ANNOUNCING THE SE

RE: A Question Regarding MS Office for Mac

[Bryan Smart]

Well, sort of. Mobile Me is kind of the light version of that sort of thing.

Mobile Me can sync your calendar, but you can't access the calendars of other 
people in your org.

Mobile Me has no server-side filtering of e-mail. This means that it can't sort 
messages in to folders based on e-mail listss, sender, etc. It is totally 
dependent on the client to do that. Maybe you're reading e-mail on your iPhone, 
but your desktop is off, so then everything will fill up your in-box.

Mobile Me doesn't do forms.

And, most importantly, Mobile Me only works with Apple stuff. My Windows 
machines and non-Apple devices could get to its imap e-mail box, but can't use 
most anything else. I like Apple stuff, but my whole computing universe isn't 
Apple.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Nicolai Svendsen
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 3:58 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A Question Regarding MS Office for Mac

Hi,

I just use Mobile Me. it synchs everything I could ever want with my iPhone and 
between my Mac, mainly because I need that kind of functionality every day.

Maybe I'm dense to Exchange, but doesn't Mobile Me do exactly what you want? As 
you said yourself, paying 100/200 isn't a big deal, as you can make it back.

Regards,
Nic
Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com
Skype: Kvalme
MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
AIM: cincinster
yahoo Messenger: cin368
Facebook Profile
My Twitter

On Apr 28, 2010, at 8:44 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:

> Office on the Mac is fairly inexpensive when compared to the PC version.
> 
> Mail won't do any of that stuff. Apple doesn't want to license the full tech 
> that would be required to completely integrate with Exchange. It would be 
> nice if they did, since Exchange isn't going away for a very very long time. 
> It's great that you can read basic e-mail and look at your Exchange calendar 
> with Mail or on an iPad/iPhone, but that isn't enough. Exchange is a full 
> personal information management system that automatically syncs, over the 
> air, between all of your devices. I can start Outlook on any of my computers, 
> or grab a phone or PDA, and I'm looking at all of my critical work info. I 
> don't sync it. Its just there, on all of them, when I need it. That sort of 
> tech is mandatory unless you have your own personal secretary. So, it will be 
> good to have Office as an alternative to Mail. Would be nice if Apple had 
> something like Exchange that could even be used as an alternative, but they 
> don't.
> 
> If you don't use Exchange, you most likely wouldn't see the point to these 
> features or care. That's alright. I can't tell you how much it increases my 
> efficiency, and helps me earn more money with less time. Paying a silly $100 
> - $200 fee is nothing, as it will make that back easily.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicolai Svendsen
> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 6:44 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: A Question Regarding MS Office for Mac
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Seems a lot of money to spend if you only need those few extra options. 
> Besides, it'll probably happen even for iWork, Mail and iCal. I'm such an 
> optimist right now.
> 
> Regards,
> Nic
> Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com
> Skype: Kvalme
> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
> AIM: cincinster
> yahoo Messenger: cin368
> Facebook Profile
> My Twitter
> 
> On Apr 26, 2010, at 9:46 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:
> 
>> Well, for those of us that use Exchange for information management, we'd 
>> sure like to be able to run a version of Outlook on the Mac. Mail and ICal 
>> can get to some of that info on an Exchange server, but not all of it. Right 
>> now, if you want to change a server-side e-mail filtering rule, for example, 
>> you must start Outlook in a virtual machine or under BootCamp to make that 
>> adjustment.
>> 
>> I also don't think that Pages supports all of the formatting options of 
>> Word. That isn't so important when you're making your own files, but it 
>> matters when you're exchanging files with other people that are using Word.
>> 
>> So, Office isn't essential, but many of us would appreciate it.
>> 
>> Bryan
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicolai 
>> Svendsen
>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 2:32 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>

RE: iPad and bluetooth refreshable braille

[Bryan Smart]

Would really be cool if one of the display companies made their own keyboard 
dock with integrated display. The iPad battery would support running it for a 
long time. I suppose that the Bluetooth model is better for them, though, as 
one model can be used with lots of different devices.

In general, the iPad needs a better dock. The keyboard dock is nice, but, for 
one, I wish it included better speakers. There is the line-out port, of course, 
but would be good if they were integrated.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Rob Lambert
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 8:44 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: iPad and bluetooth refreshable braille

If they do make it I'd be surprised. 


On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Sarah Alawami  wrote:


OH they still make the alva? I was looking at that for a braille 
desplay  and have started to save for it.?

Take care.

On Apr 28, 2010, at 2:26 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

> Hi sean,  your student is going to be brailleless for a little while 
longer yet.  When braille arrives in IPhone OS4, there's not a guarantee that 
it's going to be as functional as say, braille on the mac, although it will 
almost sertainly support bluetooth which mac OS didn't support until 
snowleopard.
>
> If it were me, my first choice of display would be a braille connect, 
followed closely by the alva bc640.  The braille connect is far and away the 
better of the two displays imho, but braille displays are a matter of  strong 
personal preference.  What feels good in one man's hand doesn't necessarily 
feel good in another's.  I suggest you let your student hold and use both of 
these displays and pick the one that feels good in his hand.  Otherwise, you 
might buy something he's not comfortable with and it will go into a closet.
>
> Best,
>
> Erik Burggraaf
> APlus certified technician and user support consultant
> Call toll-free: 1-888-255-5194
> Visit my all new website: http://www.erik-burggraaf.com
> Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com
>
> On 2010-04-28, at 3:35 PM, Sean Tikkun wrote:
>
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> One of my students just jumped and convinced his grandparents to get 
him an iPad.  As his teacher I obviously need to support him.  Our district is 
willing to get a bluetooth refreshable braille display, but I have no idea 
which ones might/will work.  Not only that, they want to know ASAP... guess 
they have some money available.  Any ideas or experiences?
>>
>>
>> Your Friend,
>> Sean Richards Tikkun
>> jaq...@mac.com
>>
>>
>>
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RE: logic 9 express help

[Bryan Smart]

Hi Chad.

You asked about Logic support a month ago when you ordered it, and we told you 
that it didn't work with VoiceOver. You can't assign instruments to tracks. You 
can't work any mixing features. You can't manipulate the regions list in order 
to edit.

You can't use Logic's instruments in Garage Band, or in any other program 
besides Logic.

Logic installs some extra instrument sounds for EXS24, which GB can use, but 
you could have picked that up much more cheaply through Jam Packs.

Oh well. Sorry you opened the box, as no refund now.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of chad baker
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:00 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: logic 9 express help

Hi just got logic 9 express and need help.
I like the sounds is there any keyboard shortcuts.
Trying to figure out how to record and if there's a precount for the metronome.
Also if not can i import the instruments into garage band?
thanks

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Returning my iPad

[Bryan Smart]

OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already 
decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the 
lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is 
always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so 
expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't.

I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is slower 
to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is terrible 
when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an impressive piece 
of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction.

I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an 
iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it should 
be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of known 
controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have a 
significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using 
apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power away.

The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the 
battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a 
very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and the 
battery just keeps on going.

Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech 
behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as a 
blind person, you're better off with an iPhone.

Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS.

The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching 
video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. 
Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an iPad 
or iPhone speaker.

I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, it 
makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at different 
positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge 
when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to 
navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because 
your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm up, with your 
fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen with part of your wrist 
or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to jump to some random position on the 
screen. This is particularly frustrating because there is so much content on an 
iPad screen. If you navigate through controls by swiping, you'll be swiping and 
swiping and swiping and swiping to get to where you'd like. Of course, you can 
directly explore with your finger, but I've noticed that, in several places 
(like the App Store and Safari), tapping somewhere doesn't necessarily mean 
that swiping will continue from that point. In many places, I'll tap at a point 
on the screen, but, when I start swiping, VoiceOver will always start from the 
top of the screen. So, in those situations, if you accidentally touch the 
screen with some other skin while swiping, or if VoiceOver mistakenly 
interprets a swipe as a tap, then you'll lose your place, and need to start 
from the top of the screen. In the App Store in particular, I've swiped myself 
to frustration.

The size of the screen is also not convenient for holding the iPad like you 
would the iPhone. It must rest on your lap or a table. And, with me pushing and 
tapping on it with both hands, I've had some situations where it has nearly 
slid off of my lap. With the screen being made of glass, that is not a great 
thought to ponder. So, I think that the screen size is not only wasted on blind 
users, but is also a drawback.

The on-screen keyboard is a bit nicer to use on a large screen. However, the 
touch-typing mode makes even one-handed typing on a small screen a breeze. 
Besides that, the larger screen meant that a lot more arm motion was required 
to type on an iPad. I tried the two-handed typing approach in landscape mode, 
but find that, no matter how well you place your hands, typing is very mistake 
prone. For anyone that finds it hard to type for extended periods of time on 
the iPhone, you can use the iPad keyboard dock with it when the next iPhone OS 
comes out.

VoiceOver is worse on the iPad. I'll just put my flame retardant suit on right 
now for the hordes of people that will respond and tell me how I'm wrong, how 
wonderful it is, and how it must be me. Well, I've used an iPhone extensively, 
and I've used the touch gestures on my MacBook Pro a lot, so I think that I'm 
pretty familiar with how everything is supposed to work. On the iPad, for 
gestures to work, I must over-act them. On my MacBook or iPhone, a little flick 
of my finger is enough to indicate that I'd like to move to the next item. On 
the iPad, I must make a huge swipe, exten

RE: Returning my iPad

[Bryan Smart]

Absolutely. I'm not trying to discourage people from having a look and judging 
for themselves.

I think that an iPad would make more sense for me if I wasn't going to use an 
iPhone. If you like Symbian or Windows Mobile for a phone, then the iPad would 
give you a good way to get in on the iPhone apps and other benefits. A Touch 
really wouldn't do that, since it doesn't have 3G data or GPS.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of marie Howarth
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 10:41 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Returning my iPad

The truth is, the iPhone isn't for everyone, the mac isn't for everyone and the 
iPad is no exception to that rule. I have to say, I still am going to purchase 
the iPad when it comes to the UK. I think everyone should think about what 
everyone has said in regards to any products but ultimately make their own 
decisions.

On 5 May 2010, at 13:42, Donna Goodin wrote:

> I second all this.  I hadn't planned on purchasing an iPad, but appreciated 
> reading your review, Brian.  Very nicely done.
> Best,
> Donna
> On May 5, 2010, at 2:55 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> 
>> Very good review,
>> 
>> It is nice to read some of the drawbacks of a VO user on an iPad.  It 
>> was well thought out and every displeasure was expanded upon.  I hope even 
>> the people who disagree with the review don't go postal on us.  Pleas.  lol. 
>>  I hope someone can put together their disagreements in a logical, 
>> respectful, and concise manor.  I think the list would benefit greatly from 
>> such a post instead of a emotion filled rant.  lol On May 5, 2010, at 1:23 
>> AM, Bryan Smart wrote:
>> 
>>> OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already 
>>> decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the 
>>> lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that 
>>> is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so 
>>> expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't.
>>> 
>>> I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is 
>>> slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is 
>>> terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an 
>>> impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction.
>>> 
>>> I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an 
>>> iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it 
>>> should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position 
>>> of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would 
>>> have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours 
>>> using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the 
>>> power away.
>>> 
>>> The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the 
>>> battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for 
>>> a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, 
>>> and the battery just keeps on going.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the 
>>> tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, 
>>> though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone.
>>> 
>>> Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS.
>>> 
>>> The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching 
>>> video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. 
>>> Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an 
>>> iPad or iPhone speaker.
>>> 
>>> I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, 
>>> it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at 
>>> different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad 
>>> screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire 
>>> arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of 
>>> computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold 
>>> your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the 
>>> screen with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to 
>&g

RE: Returning my iPad

[Bryan Smart]

You are very right that, for a low vision user, the iPad would be superior 
because of the larger screen.

I left out the Touch because it lacks 3G data and GPS. Without those, many of 
the possibilities of apps are cut out.

The technology is impressive. The question is, in what form factor would it 
best serve you?

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Pete Nalda
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 1:19 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Returning my iPad

I think his review is nice enough from a VoiceOver only perspective, but there 
are people out there I think that are visually impaired who want the device 
because of it's larger size for Zooming.  The only fault I've found in this 
area is working with the keyboard.  He also left out the option of the ipod 
touch.  It was either iphone or iPad for him.

On May 5, 2010, at 1:55 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> Very good review,
> 
> It is nice to read some of the drawbacks of a VO user on an iPad.  It 
> was well thought out and every displeasure was expanded upon.  I hope even 
> the people who disagree with the review don't go postal on us.  Pleas.  lol.  
> I hope someone can put together their disagreements in a logical, respectful, 
> and concise manor.  I think the list would benefit greatly from such a post 
> instead of a emotion filled rant.  lol On May 5, 2010, at 1:23 AM, Bryan 
> Smart wrote:
> 
>> OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already 
>> decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the 
>> lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that is 
>> always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so 
>> expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't.
>> 
>> I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is 
>> slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is 
>> terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an 
>> impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction.
>> 
>> I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an 
>> iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it 
>> should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position of 
>> known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would have 
>> a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using 
>> apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the power 
>> away.
>> 
>> The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the 
>> battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for a 
>> very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, and 
>> the battery just keeps on going.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the tech 
>> behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, though, as 
>> a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone.
>> 
>> Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS.
>> 
>> The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching 
>> video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. 
>> Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an 
>> iPad or iPhone speaker.
>> 
>> I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but, actually, 
>> it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing your finger at 
>> different positions on the screen only requires wrist movement. The iPad 
>> screen is huge when compared to the iPhone, and you must move your entire 
>> arm in order to navigate the screen. This can become tiring after hours of 
>> computing, because your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold 
>> your arm up, with your fingers angled down, you're likely to bump the screen 
>> with part of your wrist or forearm, causing VoiceOver's focus to jump to 
>> some random position on the screen. This is particularly frustrating because 
>> there is so much content on an iPad screen. If you navigate through controls 
>> by swiping, you'll be swiping and swiping and swiping and swiping to get to 
>> where you'd like. Of course, you can directly explore with your finger, but 
>> I've noticed that, in several places (like the App Store and Safari), 
>> tapping somewhere doesn't necessar

RE: Returning my iPad

[Bryan Smart]

Glad to know that my posts help you out, Kim. I know that everyone has 
different needs, both in terms of their particular disability and what 
activities are part of their lives. No device is perfect, and every way of 
working involves tradeoffs. I know that, until many people get their hands on a 
device, they might not even know some of the tradeoffs that are involved. If 
you can accept them, that's fine, but people should at least know what they're 
in for.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kimberly thurman
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 2:03 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Returning my iPad

Once again, nice job Bryan.  I've been mulling over the decision of whether to 
get an I pad.  Your post has convinced me to wait and see how the update of the 
OS this summer for the Iphone and Ipod Touch effects their usage.  I am 
interested in the Ibooks application, for instance, but that will be available 
on the Ipod Touch with the new OS.  

This is the second time you have affected  my decision to do or not do 
something.  I own a Victor Reader Stream and a Book Sense, so I thought I 
didn't need the NLS's new digital player.  I listened to your podcast on Blind 
Cool Tech and decided to get the NLS player.  I'm glad I did, if for no other 
reason than I can listen to books while moving throughout the room without 
having to have a device in my pocket or headset attached to my head.  

Once again, thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and insight 
with us concerning technology.  I'm sorry you have to eat the 10% restocking 
fee though.  That's a bummer.  
On May 5, 2010, at 8:42 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

> I second all this.  I hadn't planned on purchasing an iPad, but appreciated 
> reading your review, Brian.  Very nicely done.
> Best,
> Donna
> On May 5, 2010, at 2:55 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> 
>> Very good review,
>> 
>> It is nice to read some of the drawbacks of a VO user on an iPad.  It 
>> was well thought out and every displeasure was expanded upon.  I hope even 
>> the people who disagree with the review don't go postal on us.  Pleas.  lol. 
>>  I hope someone can put together their disagreements in a logical, 
>> respectful, and concise manor.  I think the list would benefit greatly from 
>> such a post instead of a emotion filled rant.  lol On May 5, 2010, at 1:23 
>> AM, Bryan Smart wrote:
>> 
>>> OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've already 
>>> decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow on some of the 
>>> lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm the type of person that 
>>> is always eager to investigate new technologies and ways of working, and so 
>>> expected that I'd agree with the generally positive reception. I don't.
>>> 
>>> I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it is 
>>> slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the battery life is 
>>> terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I thought that it was an 
>>> impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach to user interaction.
>>> 
>>> I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything from an 
>>> iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger screen, so it 
>>> should be possible to more easily move my finger directly to the position 
>>> of known controls in order to speed up the operation. Also, the iPad would 
>>> have a significantly larger battery than the iPhone, so I could spend hours 
>>> using apps, even wireless apps, without having to worry about draining the 
>>> power away.
>>> 
>>> The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is that the 
>>> battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to low, it runs for 
>>> a very long time. I've spent hours streaming movies via Netflix over 3G, 
>>> and the battery just keeps on going.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that the 
>>> tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this experience, 
>>> though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone.
>>> 
>>> Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS.
>>> 
>>> The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for watching 
>>> video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to be an eye strain. 
>>> Blind people don't watch movies, and we can listen to them just fine on an 
>>> i

RE: Returning my iPad

[Bryan Smart]

t;
>>> First, what can the iPad do that my iPhone cannot? iWork? Perhaps.
>>> But right now, I don't see myself using an iPad. Technically, the
>>> space I would take up if I hook up a bluetooth keyboard to the iPad
>>> is probably just as much as my Macbook, if a little bit less. The
>>> Macbook is faster, and I need the superior speed. I need to be able
>>> to type blazingly fast, and though I could do that with the iPad
>>> keyboard dock or bluetooth keyboards, I still don't want to carry
>>> those accessories around with me. Of course, that doesn't mean I can't 
>>> become very efficient with the on-screen keyboard on the device.
>>>
>>> Secondly, yes, the glare from the iPad's LCD is hard on the eyes for
>>> a few hours. Having to read on the iPad or iPhone for long periods
>>> of time is a pain, and that is really only because it is bright. IF
>>> it was like the Kindle where you still need a lamp to read, great.
>>>
>>> Third, I just don't think the iPad is right for me. I want something
>>> small like my iPhone that can do all these things already, and I
>>> just can't justify buying an iPad right now. Yeah, there are
>>> probably things the iPhone will be unable to do, but that hasn't hampered 
>>> my productivity any.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Nic
>>> Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com
>>> Skype: Kvalme
>>> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
>>> AIM: cincinster
>>> yahoo Messenger: cin368
>>> Facebook Profile
>>> My Twitter
>>>
>>> On May 5, 2010, at 7:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:
>>>
>>>> OK. So, I've had my iPad Wi-Fi+3G for less than a week, and I've
>>>> already decided not to keep it. There is so much of a euphoric glow
>>>> on some of the lists about the wonderfulness of this device. I'm
>>>> the type of person that is always eager to investigate new
>>>> technologies and ways of working, and so expected that I'd agree with the 
>>>> generally positive reception. I don't.
>>>>
>>>> I have experience with the iPhone, and, other than the fact that it
>>>> is slower to operate than a device with buttons, and that the
>>>> battery life is terrible when compared to most mobile phones, I
>>>> thought that it was an impressive piece of tech with an advanced approach 
>>>> to user interaction.
>>>>
>>>> I was excited about the iPad, and expected it to bring everything
>>>> from an iPhone, only improved. First, the iPad would have a larger
>>>> screen, so it should be possible to more easily move my finger
>>>> directly to the position of known controls in order to speed up the
>>>> operation. Also, the iPad would have a significantly larger battery
>>>> than the iPhone, so I could spend hours using apps, even wireless
>>>> apps, without having to worry about draining the power away.
>>>>
>>>> The only universally great thing that I can say about the iPad is
>>>> that the battery is spectacular. With the screen brightness set to
>>>> low, it runs for a very long time. I've spent hours streaming
>>>> movies via Netflix over 3G, and the battery just keeps on going.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, that's where it all ends. It isn't that I think that
>>>> the tech behind the iPad is necessarily bad. If you want this
>>>> experience, though, as a blind person, you're better off with an iPhone.
>>>>
>>>> Why? Well, let's compare the iPad to the iPhone 3GS.
>>>>
>>>> The iPad has a larger screen. If you're sighted, this is great for
>>>> watching video. Watching movies on a tiny phone screen has got to
>>>> be an eye strain. Blind people don't watch movies, and we can
>>>> listen to them just fine on an iPad or iPhone speaker.
>>>>
>>>> I thought that the larger screen would help with VoiceOver, but,
>>>> actually, it makes things worse. When you work an iPhone, placing
>>>> your finger at different positions on the screen only requires
>>>> wrist movement. The iPad screen is huge when compared to the
>>>> iPhone, and you must move your entire arm in order to navigate the
>>>> screen. This can become tiring after hours of computing, because
>>>> your arm can rarely rest on anything. If you don't hold your arm
>>

RE: Returning my iPad

[Bryan Smart]

Yes, that sounds good, and I thought as you. However, it doesn't work that way 
in practice.

You can pick something from a side bar, and then tap over to the right in order 
to find the article or what-ever. However, when you start swiping, or if you 
two-finger swipe down to read from that point on, VO is just as likely to start 
reading from the top of the page. So, touching is only good for exploring, not 
for actually picking a place from where to start reading. Sometimes it works, 
but mostly it doesn't.

On the iPhone, you have many screens where controls appear at consistent 
positions. On the iPad, with the extra screen area, most apps are just filling 
that extra space up with a browser, where touching doesn't really move your 
focus to that point like it should, and where you also must often scroll the 
content area to find what you want.

So, you're thinking of the iPad like it will be a big iPhone, with lots of 
additional screen area for more controls. When, actually, many app developers 
have just turned it in to a web terminal with a bit of extra bits and pieces to 
frame the browser view. Browsing with Safari has never been quite as fast for 
me as the virtual buffer approaches available through the Windows screen 
readers. Browsing with Safari, while controlling it with touch, is even slower. 
I can do it, but it isn't the quickest approach out there. The iPad turns every 
freaking thing in to a web site type experience. I hate that.

I don't mean to say that every app is like that. The iWork apps aren't, and 
neither is iBooks. However, I'd say that over half of the apps that I 
downloaded that were designed just for the iPad were written by devs that 
thought that making an iPad version meant that they could just make their app a 
web application with a local frame of buttons.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Nicolai Svendsen
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 4:18 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Returning my iPad

Hi,

Still, regardless, I can imagine that it'd be easier to explore the screen. if 
you frequently visit a particular webpage, you might have the table containing 
news categories on the left-hand side, and when tapping it, contents might 
appear in the center or to the right making navigation very swift.

I've always loved the exploration part of a touchscreen, and I never swipe 
anymore. This is why it'd probably be a huge benefit for me to get one because 
of the size. Exploring, particularly with the iPhone on websites is not the 
same.

Regards,
Nic
Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com
Skype: Kvalme
MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
AIM: cincinster
yahoo Messenger: cin368
Facebook Profile
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On May 5, 2010, at 9:58 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:

> Olivia, I like the concept of the four finger swipe for navigating between 
> sections, but it seems that only a few apps support this. It works on the 
> home screen. It works in the iWork apps. It works in Safari. However, lots of 
> iPad apps build their interfaces out of just large web browser views. In 
> these views, there is no concept of sections. You just have a huge scrolling 
> page with lots of links. Sometimes, they'll use headings, and I can use the 
> rotor and up/down swipe to navigate between sections. Quite often, though, 
> they don't, and, together with the problem of swiping not continuing from 
> where I last touched, there is a massive amount of swiping required to get 
> around the screen. Lots of swiping isn't a problem on the iPhone and Touch, 
> as those are smaller screens that hold less data at once, so there isn't much 
> on any single screen to swipe through. The iPad screens are very full, though.
>
> Bryan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of olivia norman
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 5:53 AM
> To: list voiceover
> Subject: Re: Returning my iPad
>
> It's always interesting to get another prospective.  I do have a case for my 
> iPad, so don't have to hold it up at all which helps.  Personally, I love the 
> device, but as with anything, people have differing opinions and I actually 
> found Brian's experiences interesting and valuable to read.
> I find that the four finger flick gesture really helps while moving around 
> most iPad screens, especially in applications such as mail and safari, this 
> gesture helps avoid swiping with one finger constantly.  I also find that 
> applications such as iBooks and the iWork applications are wonderful 
> additions to this device, and afford the user functionality ad productivity 
> you just don't find on the iPhone.
> In my way of thinking, these are two different k

Accessible iPhone/iPad apps and refunds

[Bryan Smart]

Hi.

There are so many apps available. As we know, some are completely accessible, 
some are accessible with some workarounds, and some not at all.

With free apps, this isn't a problem. You install them, check them out, and, if 
they aren't accessible, you can just delete them.

With paid apps, though, the situation is different. There are some 
accessibility reviews of some apps, but only a fraction of what's available. 
Since hardly any of the apps offer demos, we must buy the app, and risk that 
the purchase will be wasted on an app that we can't even use. When the app only 
costs $0.99, like some iPhone apps, that isn't so bad, but iPad apps can cost 
$5, $10, and even more in some cases.

I think that Apple should take some small steps to accommodate us. Not only is 
it a sorry situation when one of us purchases an app that we discover to be 
inaccessible, but, for some people, having a few such experiences will trim 
back on their willingness to push that buy button in the future. Pressing the 
buy button should not feel like a roll of the dice.

I suggest:

1. The App Store should provide some way for people to rate the accessibility 
of an app. A 5 star system, similar to how apps are rated in general might be 
nice.

2. There should be some way that customers can optionally restrict the App 
Store to showing only accessible applications. If people would like to explore 
new apps, that's fine, but, if they just want to look at what is known to be 
accessible, they should have that option.

3. Customers should be able to receive refunds for apps that they can't use. 
Since the app store provides no indication of how accessible a program is, and 
there is usually no way to try the program first, we should be able to get a 
refund if we can't use our purchase.

What do you all think? What can be done? I've purchased a few apps that are 
completely inaccessible. For example, I purchased Korg Electribe, a beat making 
program, for $10. Can't use it at all.

Bryan

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RE: Accessible iPhone/iPad apps and refunds

[Bryan Smart]

Absolutely.

Anyone on the list with an iPhone, iPad, or iPod Touch, please write to 
complain. It isn't write for Apple to not give us info about an app's 
accessibility, give us no way to evaluate that accessibility for ourselves, 
force us to buy the app in order to find out, and then deny us a refund if it 
isn't accessible. We should either be given a way to know how accessible an app 
is in advance, or be given the option of a refund if we find that an app isn't 
accessible after purchasing it.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Cara Quinn
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 6:29 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible iPhone/iPad apps and refunds


  Hi Bryan;

  I for one, agree with you whole-heartedly. I've actually been in touch with 
Apple about this in the past, and my contacts also felt it would be a good 
idea, however, as yet nothing has seemingly happened with it. 

  I'd encourage you and anyone else interested to email accessibil...@apple.com 
with these concerns / suggestions. 

I know this sounds like a blow-off, but it really isn't! lol! I think more of 
us just need to be nicely and politely making these points heard, that's all, 
and that email addie is the best way I know, to do it.  

  Anyway, I'd surely like this situation to improve as well. Thanks so much for 
posting!!!...

SMiles,

Cara :)
---
View my Online Portfolio at:

http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn

Follow me on Twitter!

https://twitter.com/ModelCara

On May 6, 2010, at 1:29 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:

Hi.

There are so many apps available. As we know, some are completely accessible, 
some are accessible with some workarounds, and some not at all.

With free apps, this isn't a problem. You install them, check them out, and, if 
they aren't accessible, you can just delete them.

With paid apps, though, the situation is different. There are some 
accessibility reviews of some apps, but only a fraction of what's available. 
Since hardly any of the apps offer demos, we must buy the app, and risk that 
the purchase will be wasted on an app that we can't even use. When the app only 
costs $0.99, like some iPhone apps, that isn't so bad, but iPad apps can cost 
$5, $10, and even more in some cases.

I think that Apple should take some small steps to accommodate us. Not only is 
it a sorry situation when one of us purchases an app that we discover to be 
inaccessible, but, for some people, having a few such experiences will trim 
back on their willingness to push that buy button in the future. Pressing the 
buy button should not feel like a roll of the dice.

I suggest:

1. The App Store should provide some way for people to rate the accessibility 
of an app. A 5 star system, similar to how apps are rated in general might be 
nice.

2. There should be some way that customers can optionally restrict the App 
Store to showing only accessible applications. If people would like to explore 
new apps, that's fine, but, if they just want to look at what is known to be 
accessible, they should have that option.

3. Customers should be able to receive refunds for apps that they can't use. 
Since the app store provides no indication of how accessible a program is, and 
there is usually no way to try the program first, we should be able to get a 
refund if we can't use our purchase.

What do you all think? What can be done? I've purchased a few apps that are 
completely inaccessible. For example, I purchased Korg Electribe, a beat making 
program, for $10. Can't use it at all.

Bryan

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RE: Mack Mini and Monitor?

[Bryan Smart]

If there was an FAQ for this list, the frustrating and repetitious subject of 
Minis and monitors would probably be at the top. I know that there is no reason 
to assume that newbies should know this, so there is no reason to blast them, 
but it gets so old covering this over and over again. We literally seem to have 
a thread about it 2 or 3 times a week.

No, the Mini and VoiceOver won't work right without a monitor.

Yes, that's why Safari and other apps always say that they're "busy, busy, 
busy, busy".

No, there is no adaptor that you can plug in to it that will fake a monitor 
being attached.

No, the Mini isn't supposed to be a portable computer.

No, Apple isn't going to do anything to fix this in the future, as far as we 
know.

Don't feel bad, Courtney. Lots of other people assume, like you, that this will 
work. It doesn't. No way that you could know without asking in advance. Hope 
that this helps and saves time.

Maybe this is reason #1 to start an FAQ for this list?

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Romack
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 4:46 PM
To: MacVisionaries
Subject: Re: Mack Mini and Monitor?

A couple points to note here:

Ben - Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Rude, much? Consider that new members join this list 
every day, and they aren't privi to previous threads, unless they have no 
social life and sit and read every message dated back to the conception of this 
list. Apple picked a name for this product line that draws the to the 
assumption that the computer is "mini" enough to be portable. Consider that not 
everyone is as informed as you. Okay?

For the sake of this thread, and the notion that Ben may explode in a fiery 
ball of rage with what I am about to propose - what if an adapter was plugged 
into the display port of the Mini, but no display was actually attached? Could 
one purchase some sort of VGA-to-RCA adapter (if one such adapter exists), and 
plug it into something portable that receives RCA-in? Just a thought from an 
ignorant Apple- head.

romack

www.justinromack.com
twitter.com/justinromack

On May 6, 8:00 am, "Neil James"  wrote:
> Ben, if you had read the post more carefully, perhaps you wouldn't 
> have been so quick to fly off the handle? The question was if there 
> exists a portable monitor not how portable the mini is. To answer the 
> original question though, the smallest monitor I have come across, was 
> a screen size of 12 inches, so while doable, it isn't exactly a portable 
> monitor.
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ben Mustill-Rose" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 11:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Mack Mini and Monitor?
>
> > Not portable in the sense that you could carry it to work.
> > How many times do we have to say to people that a mini is not portable?
>
> > On 05/05/2010, Courtney Curran  wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> Since a new Mack mini apparently must have a monitor, are there any 
> >> portable monitors like USB monitors or something. I take my Mack 
> >> mini to work a lot.
> >> I'm not using any monitor now, Safari seems busy a lot, but is 
> >> still very functional.
> >> Thanks,
> >> Courtney
>
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m

RE: making dvd player in the newest incarnation of the mackbook pro region free

[Bryan Smart]

Sorry, but that isn't possible, by design.

You're supposed to be locked to one region. That's so, for example, that 
Japanese publishers can overcharge people in the U. S. for imported DVDs, and 
so that Hollywood can make Europeans wait months after a U. S. release before 
they can buy a playable movie. That's the whole point of region control, so 
they can control what each region can see, when they can see it, and how much 
they'll pay to see it. If you're not happy about that situation, may I suggest 
UTorrent? Hey, it isn't copyright infringement if you already own it.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of DJ Nezumi
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:16 PM
To: MacVisionaries
Subject: making dvd player in the newest incarnation of the mackbook pro region 
free

hi all
i was wondering does anyone have any advice on how to make my dvd player region 
free?
i have both dvds from the UK and US and at the moment i can't watch say for 
example dvds from the UK because my drive region has to be changed but i can 
only do this a number of times i would be vary greatful if anyone has any 
advice thanks Liam

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RE: Accessible iPhone/iPad apps and refunds

[Bryan Smart]

Right, ratings are fine. If I know that an app scores 2 out of 5 in 
accessibility reviews, I have no reason to expect it to work perfectly, but I 
can expect that at least some part of it will be minimally usable. If it gets a 
1, though, it is a safe bet that I'm not going to be able to do anything at all 
with it.

I know that Apple doesn't have any control over what 3rd party developers do 
with regard to accessibility. If we had ratings to at least know what we're 
getting in to before hand, that would be fine. If we could get a refund if we 
tried something and it didn't work, that would be fine, also. Right now, 
though, we have no advance information regarding how well an app will work, 
and, if it doesn't, we don't get a refund. This isn't Apple being cruel and 
insensitive, so no need to blame them. Something should be done, in fairness, 
though. Even though they aren't creating the problem, it is their App Store, 
the only way to get software for these devices legally, and so they're the only 
ones with power to do anything about it.

It is easy to say live and let live, but perhaps after you buy a few iPad apps 
for $10 each, and realize that you might has well have ripped up $40 or $50 and 
thrown it in the trash, you'll feel that this is worth effort. After all, if 
you bought something at a store, brought it home, and figured out that it 
didn't work, you'd take it back and get your money.

This isn't like traditional software purchases where, once a box is open, you 
can't return the software, as there is no way to know that you haven't returned 
the box while leaving the software installed on your computer. Apple has all of 
this digital rights management stuff on the iPhone and iPad so that they can 
control what you put on it, and even disable programs that you've already 
purchased. They absolutely have the power to grant refunds and turn off the 
copy that you already purchased. However, I'm not so much for refunds, as I am 
for ratings. If I spent $10 on someone's completely inaccessible program, at 
least I could get the satisfaction of sticking a 1 star rating on their app 
store page. All prospective customers see that, so it might get their 
attention, and they might decide to do something about it, at least. Right now, 
even though the app developer hasn't specifically passed over accessibility to 
spite me or you, I still feel like a sucker for having spent money that I can't 
get back for something that I can't use.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ricardo Walker
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 5:10 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible iPhone/iPad apps and refunds

Hi,

That is why I suggested a rating system with categories.  For example, labeled 
buttons would be one of the criteria for the rating system.  Let the users 
define accessibility by essentially voting on a few general components that 
make up over all accessibility for an iPhone app. 
On May 6, 2010, at 11:06 PM, John J Herzog wrote:

> I see a problem with this philosophy. Different people view accessibility in 
> different ways. For instance, some people would not consider the workout 
> application posted to this list accessible because of a few unlabeled 
> buttons. Others would be fine with it. Similarly, I have a few games on the 
> IPod, where the introductory screens work with voiceover, and then you turn 
> it off to play the actual game. Action bowling comes to mind. 
> What is apple to do? How should they define accessibility? Do they give all 
> who complain refunds, even though some complaints are more genuine and 
> reasonable than others? Do they say that, if a certain number of buttons 
> aren't labeled, the app is inaccessible? Do they say that, if you cannot play 
> a game with voiceover on, then all blind people should get their money back? 
> I know that it sucks to pay for apps which are unusable by and large. But 
> this accessibility criteria for refunds on apps is going to cause a lot of 
> problems. And, more importantly, I worry that if we have people constantly 
> holding apple to different standards of "accessibility", it might sideline 
> any further efforts they put into improving the platform for blind users. 
> Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot here. 
> 
> John
> 
> On May 6, 2010, at 6:39 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:
> 
>> Absolutely.
>> 
>> Anyone on the list with an iPhone, iPad, or iPod Touch, please write to 
>> complain. It isn't write for Apple to not give us info about an app's 
>> accessibility, give us no way to evaluate that accessibility for ourselves, 
>> force us to buy the app in order to find out, and then d

RE: Feature for voice over

[Bryan Smart]

Agreed. We need global hot spots, and hot spots that are specific to an 
application or window.

It would be useful to set and go to hot spots by name, in addition to the 10 
quick hot spots that we have now. That way, we could save more than 10, and 
could refer to them in a meaningful way.

They should also save from session to session.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:08 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Feature for voice over

the problem is it overrights the other hotspots I have. for exam[le I have a 
hotspot set for a table in syrinx. I set another hotspot in mail. suddenly that 
table in syrinx is not there inthe hotspot list.

Take care.

S

On May 8, 2010, at 10:56 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:


Hi,

Hot spots. They enable you to keep track of a certain area in a window, 
quickly jump to it, or simply read the status area it is monitoring within a 
certain window.

Example: You are downloading something in Safari, but you want to do 
something else. But it's a huge download. You go to the percentage with the 
VoiceOver cursor, hit VO-Shift-1 to save it as hot spot number one, and go do 
whatever else you might want to do on your Mac. If you suddenly wonder how far 
along the download is, you can hit Vo-COmmand-1 to monitor Hot spot one. Now, 
this is a pretty difficult command for some people, so you might want to use 
the right command key instead of the left, coupled with control-option on the 
left side of the keyboard until you get beyond four or so.

As for jumping to edit boxes, you can either use the rotor on the 
trackpad or via VO-U and Quick Nav. You can also make Safari jump to all 
controls except links buy hitting option-tab. I don't think AppleScript is 
required for this at all, though it can probably be done for those who really 
care.

Regards,
Nic

On May 8, 2010, at 7:06 PM, Edward wrote:


Hello all, 

Anyone know if there will be a feature or if there is one now 
to define user windows in order to keep track of info in a particular region?  
Also is it possible to write a script allowing a user to hit e for the first 
edit box on a webpage or x for check box, and so on?  I don't know enough about 
apple scripting to answer this question, so any info will be greatly 
appreciated.

Thanks 
Edward 



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RE: making dvd player in the newest incarnation of the mackbook pro region free

[Bryan Smart]

Very cool. Didn't know this. 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of marie Howarth
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 1:12 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: making dvd player in the newest incarnation of the mackbook pro 
region free

This is very possible. I've done it for ages.

Download VLC, it's free and open source, pretty usable too.
then go to system prefs and where it says CdS/DVDs open that and next to when 
you insert  a video dvd in the pop up hit ignore.
Now open VLC to play your DVDs. still legal and you won't use up your region 
switching on the mac drive. :)

On 7 May 2010, at 17:57, Chris Blouch wrote:

> You'll have to rip the DVD first and then use something like DVDBackup 1.3 
> which will remove region encoding, macrovision and encryption. The program is 
> very old but still launches and the UI appeared to be accessible. Give it a 
> try. I had to google around a bit to find a download link. Here was one:
> 
> http://mac.majorgeeks.com/downloadget.php?id=4900&file=9&evp=8e48358f3
> bc7daf2ddd1a4a145cf6c49
> 
> CB
> 
> Bryan Smart wrote:
>> Sorry, but that isn't possible, by design.
>> 
>> You're supposed to be locked to one region. That's so, for example, that 
>> Japanese publishers can overcharge people in the U. S. for imported DVDs, 
>> and so that Hollywood can make Europeans wait months after a U. S. release 
>> before they can buy a playable movie. That's the whole point of region 
>> control, so they can control what each region can see, when they can see it, 
>> and how much they'll pay to see it. If you're not happy about that 
>> situation, may I suggest UTorrent? Hey, it isn't copyright infringement if 
>> you already own it.
>> 
>> Bryan
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of DJ Nezumi
>> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:16 PM
>> To: MacVisionaries
>> Subject: making dvd player in the newest incarnation of the mackbook 
>> pro region free
>> 
>> hi all
>> i was wondering does anyone have any advice on how to make my dvd player 
>> region free?
>> i have both dvds from the UK and US and at the moment i can't watch 
>> say for example dvds from the UK because my drive region has to be 
>> changed but i can only do this a number of times i would be vary 
>> greatful if anyone has any advice thanks Liam
>> 
>> --
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>> 
>>  
> 
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Here is a new iPad VoiceOver bug

[Bryan Smart]

OK, those of you with iPads, check this out.

I've noticed how swiping just doesn't work sometimes on my iPad. I thought, 
hey, maybe it's me. It wasn't like this on my iPhone, though. I thought, maybe 
the screen is just not as good. Turns out, though, VoiceOver just isn't as 
good. I finally have a way to consistently show this crud. Wish that I could 
come up with good repros for the other problems, though.

Anyway, here is a good example of swiping not working.

Go in to settings. Double-tap Wi-Fi.

Now, on the right side, double-tap the on/off switch on the right side of the 
screen.

Now, try just once to swipe. Nothing will happen. If you try again, you'll be 
swiping just fine. Return to the switch, though.

Double-tap to toggle it. Swipe once. Nothing will happen.

Double-tap to toggle it again. Swipe once, again. Nothing will happen.

The thing is, each time you toggle any switch, not just this once, swiping 
doesn't work the first time that you try. Not only with switches, this happens 
with radio button type controls where you select one in a group.

Exploring further, I discovered that, for most things you do, the first attempt 
to swipe doesn't work. In Safari, when a new page loads, the first time I swipe 
never results in focus moving. In settings, when I double-tap a button on the 
left to show another category of settings, the first swipe never moves the 
focus. This isn't the case in absolutely every place on the iPad (the home 
screen isn't like this), but it is very prevalent, and I can make it happen 
over and over again. I'm only mentioning these apps because these are the ones 
that everyone else has to try the repro.

Between this, and the deal with the screen not refreshing to VoiceOver, I'm 
starting to understand why it seemed like the interface wasn't responding like 
I'm used to with the iPhone and the MBP track pad. I feel like I'm fumbling a 
lot trying to get things to work, rather than being able to follow consistent 
patterns to get to where I want to be. Now that I know what's happening, I 
should have better luck, I guess. Like, every time I press a button, I have to 
make a fake swipe before I start to swipe for real.

Today, while reading a web page, I also had the speech totally die. I would 
still hear the VoiceOver navigation sounds as I moved around, but no speech. 
Fortunately, I can always use the triple-tap home key approach to cycle 
VoiceOver off and on, but, as I was doing so, I couldn't help thinking of how 
constantly having to reload a screen reader is supposed to be par for the 
course in the Windows world. I couldn't help but angrily think how it seems 
that Apple has finally brought that feature to the iPad, also. I suppose it's 
to their credit that I don't expect this on OSX and the iPhone, but I really 
like not having an unstable screen reader. I can't say that I've never had to 
toggle VO on OSX, but that is pretty rare. I've had to do that quite a little 
bit on the iPad to work out various problems. The speech, in general, seems 
like its been tweaked for the iPad. Maybe that's why it chops off the ends of 
some words when running at full speed.

Oh, and don't forget the bug with the speaker constantly running, draining your 
battery while you sleep.

What's the deal? Was this thing rushed? Is the iPad running some hacked 
intermediate version of VoiceOver? As I said in my other thread, I've already 
setup a return for the iPad. I'll be sending it back on Tuesday. We barely have 
14 days to kick the tires on it before the return period is up. I'm not really 
happy about how things have gone so far.

I'm also really surprised that, so far, I seem to be the only one that has 
found iPad VO bugs. These haven't been hard to find. Maybe others have, and 
just haven't said so, or I haven't noticed their reports. Still, I've had mine 
for just over a week. Other people have had the iPad for a month. Blindness 
orgs have reviewed it. Has just no one else noticed any of these? Maybe, like 
me, you just feel that the user interface doesn't respond correctly, and don't 
know why/can't give a repro.

Supposedly, the only updates that will be available are new OS versions. The 
next one is supposed to come out in the fall. Thought the first one will be 
free, versions after that will cost.
Bryan

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RE: Here is a new iPad VoiceOver bug

[Bryan Smart]

Did you try to follow my instructions? If you did, what happened, exactly?

Also, I have the 3G iPad. Do you have just the Wi-Fi model? Maybe the OS is 
slightly different?

Bryan 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Olivia Norman
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:21 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Cc: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Here is a new iPad VoiceOver bug

Interesting I haven't noticed these issues. My ipad works well with VoiceOver 
not sure why!
Olivia

Sent from my iPhone

On May 8, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Bryan Smart 
wrote:

> OK, those of you with iPads, check this out.
>
> I've noticed how swiping just doesn't work sometimes on my iPad. I 
> thought, hey, maybe it's me. It wasn't like this on my iPhone, though. 
> I thought, maybe the screen is just not as good. Turns out, though, 
> VoiceOver just isn't as good. I finally have a way to consistently 
> show this crud. Wish that I could come up with good repros for the 
> other problems, though.
>
> Anyway, here is a good example of swiping not working.
>
> Go in to settings. Double-tap Wi-Fi.
>
> Now, on the right side, double-tap the on/off switch on the right side 
> of the screen.
>
> Now, try just once to swipe. Nothing will happen. If you try again, 
> you'll be swiping just fine. Return to the switch, though.
>
> Double-tap to toggle it. Swipe once. Nothing will happen.
>
> Double-tap to toggle it again. Swipe once, again. Nothing will happen.
>
> The thing is, each time you toggle any switch, not just this once, 
> swiping doesn't work the first time that you try. Not only with 
> switches, this happens with radio button type controls where you 
> select one in a group.
>
> Exploring further, I discovered that, for most things you do, the 
> first attempt to swipe doesn't work. In Safari, when a new page loads, 
> the first time I swipe never results in focus moving. In settings, 
> when I double-tap a button on the left to show another category of 
> settings, the first swipe never moves the focus. This isn't the case 
> in absolutely every place on the iPad (the home screen isn't like 
> this), but it is very prevalent, and I can make it happen over and 
> over again. I'm only mentioning these apps because these are the ones 
> that everyone else has to try the repro.
>
> Between this, and the deal with the screen not refreshing to 
> VoiceOver, I'm starting to understand why it seemed like the interface 
> wasn't responding like I'm used to with the iPhone and the MBP track 
> pad. I feel like I'm fumbling a lot trying to get things to work, 
> rather than being able to follow consistent patterns to get to where I 
> want to be. Now that I know what's happening, I should have better 
> luck, I guess. Like, every time I press a button, I have to make a 
> fake swipe before I start to swipe for real.
>
> Today, while reading a web page, I also had the speech totally die.  
> I would still hear the VoiceOver navigation sounds as I moved around, 
> but no speech. Fortunately, I can always use the triple-tap home key 
> approach to cycle VoiceOver off and on, but, as I was doing so, I 
> couldn't help thinking of how constantly having to reload a screen 
> reader is supposed to be par for the course in the Windows world. I 
> couldn't help but angrily think how it seems that Apple has finally 
> brought that feature to the iPad, also. I suppose it's to their credit 
> that I don't expect this on OSX and the iPhone, but I really like not 
> having an unstable screen reader. I can't say that I've never had to 
> toggle VO on OSX, but that is pretty rare. I've had to do that quite a 
> little bit on the iPad to work out various problems. The speech, in 
> general, seems like its been tweaked for the iPad. Maybe that's why it 
> chops off the ends of some words when running at full speed.
>
> Oh, and don't forget the bug with the speaker constantly running, 
> draining your battery while you sleep.
>
> What's the deal? Was this thing rushed? Is the iPad running some 
> hacked intermediate version of VoiceOver? As I said in my other 
> thread, I've already setup a return for the iPad. I'll be sending it 
> back on Tuesday. We barely have 14 days to kick the tires on it before 
> the return period is up. I'm not really happy about how things have 
> gone so far.
>
> I'm also really surprised that, so far, I seem to be the only one that 
> has found iPad VO bugs. These haven't been hard to find. Maybe others 
> have, and just haven't said so, or I haven

RE: o.t, maybe. Nokia sues Apple in Wisconsin for infringement of Nokia patents

[Bryan Smart]

The article says
--
During the last two decades, Nokia has invested approximately EUR 40 billion 
in research and development and built one of the wireless industry's 
strongest and broadest IPR portfolios, with over 11,000 patent families. 
--

Not 11,000 patents, but 11,000 patent families. Probably way, way more patents.

Microsoft, Apple, and IBM also have patent libraries that you wouldn't believe. 
They're held in reserve like strategic nuclear weapons. If you make a widget 
with a button on it, IBM probably owns a patent, coiling kinetic energy storage 
system to inhibit task activation, I.E. the spring in your button. If you use a 
membrane panel instead, Nokia probably owns a patent, polymer device for 
inhibiting closed electrical circuit through conical relief cells. You might 
not know that, and go on building your widgets for a while. They might not even 
care. One day, though, if they want you out of business, they'll show up, 
demand a licensing fee for your springs, and, if you don't pay, they'll file 
and injunction and take away your springs. If you switch to membranes, they'll 
sue your supplier for patent infringement. If you think that sounds crazy, then 
you'll have to prove it in court. By the time you do, you'll be out of money, 
and they'll be back to business as usual.

Although, after going after Nokia with some silly obvious patents, Apple 
deserves to get a little taste of its own medicine. Nokia doesn't expect to 
win. They are just telling Apple that, if they don't drop their claims, Nokia 
can make life very unpleasant for them.

The patent system needs to die. It's just a way to shut the small guy out while 
giving the big boys tools to use for threatening each other and forming 
alliances of threat.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 5:54 PM
To: mac vissionaries
Subject: o.t, maybe. Nokia sues Apple in Wisconsin for infringement of Nokia 
patents

Subject: NOKIA - Nokia sues Apple in Wisconsin for infringement of Nokia patents


NOKIA



Nokia sues Apple in Wisconsin for infringement of Nokia patents




Espoo, Finland - Nokia announced that it has today filed a complaint against 
Apple with the Federal District Court in the Western District of Wisconsin, 
alleging that Apple iPhone and iPad 3G products infringe five important 
Nokia patents.

The patents in question relate to technologies for enhanced speech and data 
transmission, using positioning data in applications and innovations in 
antenna configurations that improve performance and save space, allowing 
smaller and more compact devices. These patented innovations are important 
to Nokia's success as they allow improved product performance and design.

"Nokia has been the leading developer of many key technologies in mobile 
devices" said Paul Melin, General Manager, Patent Licensing at Nokia. "We 
have taken this step to protect the results of our pioneering development 
and to put an end to continued unlawful use of Nokia's innovation."

During the last two decades, Nokia has invested approximately EUR 40 billion 
in research and development and built one of the wireless industry's 
strongest and broadest IPR portfolios, with over 11,000 patent families. 
Nokia is a world leader in the development of handheld device and mobile 
communications technologies, which is also demonstrated by Nokia's strong 
patent portfolio.

About Nokia
At Nokia, we are committed to connecting people. We combine advanced 
technology with personalized services that enable people to stay close to 
what matters to them. Every day, more than 1.2 billion people connect to one 
another with a Nokia device - from mobile phones to advanced smartphones and 
high-performance mobile computers. Today, Nokia is integrating its devices 
with innovative services through Ovi (www.ovi.com), including music, maps, 
apps, email and more. Nokia's NAVTEQ is a leader in comprehensive digital 
mapping and navigation services, while Nokia Siemens Networks provides 
equipment, services and solutions for communications networks globally.

FORWARD-LOOKING STATEMENTS
It should be noted that certain statements herein which are not historical 
facts are forward-looking statements, including, without limitation, those 
regarding: A) the timing of the deliveries of our products and services and 
their combinations; B) our ability to develop, implement and commercialize 
new technologies, products and services and their combinations; C) 
expectations regarding market developments and structural changes; D) 
expectations and targets regarding our industry volumes, market share, 
prices, net sales and margins of products and services and their 
combinations; E) expectations and targets regarding our operational 
priorities and results of operations; F) the outcome of pending and 
threatened litigation; G) expectations 

RE: Here is a new iPad VoiceOver bug

[Bryan Smart]

It is possible. There could be some small OS revision between the Wi-Fi and 3G 
that introduced a problem. It is, like you say also possible that something 
might be a bit electronically off with my touch screen. This is the only iPad 
that I've ever used, other than a brief play with one at a Best Buy, so I don't 
know if the behavior of mine is atypical or not.

It is frustrating, though. If I knew that I could swap it to resolve the 
problem, that would work. If I knew it was just a software problem that could 
be resolved soon, that might be fine, also. I just don't know.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ricardo Walker
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 7:58 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Here is a new iPad VoiceOver bug

Maybe we haven't heard about it because he is using the 3g model of the iPad.  
Every voiceover related review and podcast I have come across had featured the 
wifi model.  So, Maybe the behavior Bryan is experiencing is only on the 3g 
model.  Or it could just be his model imparticular.  
On May 9, 2010, at 6:49 AM, Scott Howell wrote:

> Bryan,
> 
> Nice to know your the only one. :) So, have you brought your concerns to 
> Apple's attention? The issue with the words being cut off is not a result of 
> the iPad implementation. This is very apparent on the iPhone and I am quite 
> certain the iPod Touch as well. It is an issue with the speech and I have 
> filed this issue quite a while back and hope it will be addressed in the next 
> version. I will be curious if others have experienced your issue and I find 
> it hard to believe that if this is a bug, that no one else would have 
> mentioned it. So, hopefully if it is a bug, people report it and I am sure 
> Apple did not rush the product to market. You know that most products pushed 
> out the door will have some issues that may not have been found. However, you 
> are correct, I have not read anything about what your experiencing, which is 
> interesting.
> On May 8, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:
> 
>> OK, those of you with iPads, check this out.
>> 
>> I've noticed how swiping just doesn't work sometimes on my iPad. I thought, 
>> hey, maybe it's me. It wasn't like this on my iPhone, though. I thought, 
>> maybe the screen is just not as good. Turns out, though, VoiceOver just 
>> isn't as good. I finally have a way to consistently show this crud. Wish 
>> that I could come up with good repros for the other problems, though.
>> 
>> Anyway, here is a good example of swiping not working.
>> 
>> Go in to settings. Double-tap Wi-Fi.
>> 
>> Now, on the right side, double-tap the on/off switch on the right side of 
>> the screen.
>> 
>> Now, try just once to swipe. Nothing will happen. If you try again, you'll 
>> be swiping just fine. Return to the switch, though.
>> 
>> Double-tap to toggle it. Swipe once. Nothing will happen.
>> 
>> Double-tap to toggle it again. Swipe once, again. Nothing will happen.
>> 
>> The thing is, each time you toggle any switch, not just this once, swiping 
>> doesn't work the first time that you try. Not only with switches, this 
>> happens with radio button type controls where you select one in a group.
>> 
>> Exploring further, I discovered that, for most things you do, the first 
>> attempt to swipe doesn't work. In Safari, when a new page loads, the first 
>> time I swipe never results in focus moving. In settings, when I double-tap a 
>> button on the left to show another category of settings, the first swipe 
>> never moves the focus. This isn't the case in absolutely every place on the 
>> iPad (the home screen isn't like this), but it is very prevalent, and I can 
>> make it happen over and over again. I'm only mentioning these apps because 
>> these are the ones that everyone else has to try the repro.
>> 
>> Between this, and the deal with the screen not refreshing to VoiceOver, I'm 
>> starting to understand why it seemed like the interface wasn't responding 
>> like I'm used to with the iPhone and the MBP track pad. I feel like I'm 
>> fumbling a lot trying to get things to work, rather than being able to 
>> follow consistent patterns to get to where I want to be. Now that I know 
>> what's happening, I should have better luck, I guess. Like, every time I 
>> press a button, I have to make a fake swipe before I start to swipe for real.
>> 
>> Today, while reading a web page, I also had the speech totally die. I would 
>> still hear the VoiceOver navigation so

RE: o.t, maybe. Nokia sues Apple in Wisconsin for infringement of Nokia patents

[Bryan Smart]

I know we love our iPhones here, but to act like Nokia is terrified and on the 
ropes is silly. Do you know that 2 out of every 5 smartphones in the world are 
Nokias. Their 40% market share is mamoth when compared to Apple's 17%. 
BlackBerries stil out-sell iPhones. It's great that Apple sold nearly 9,000,000 
iPhones last quarter, but, in the same time, Nokia sold 21,000,000.

As big as the iPhone is here in the US, I think that a lot of people forget 
just how popular Nokia is nearly everywhere else in the world.

These patent battles happen all of the time. Qualcom was the big focus a few 
years ago. Nokia and Apple will maneuver for a while, they'll come to some 
agreement that I won't sue you for this patent if you don't sue me for that 
one, and then they'll both try to take a swing at RIM.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of marie Howarth
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 8:07 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: o.t, maybe. Nokia sues Apple in Wisconsin for infringement of 
Nokia patents

and that is the point. Nokia's suffering so what do they do, hit the company 
that potentially has the most money.

On 9 May 2010, at 11:49, Kaare Dehard wrote:

> sounds to me like they are timing this right, results are down for Nokia 
> right now and they're probably trying to do this to cut some losses witha fat 
> lisencing contract.
> On 2010-05-08, at 11:20 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> 
>> agreed. I do wonder what will come out of it though? I hoep nokia 
>> looses big time On May 8, 2010, at 4:14 PM, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote:
>> 
>>> Yet another boring lawsuit. I really think this type of thing is 
>>> just to see who can score browny points against another company; 
>>> it's not really in the interest of consumers, despite what nokia will tell 
>>> you.
>>> 
>>> On 08/05/2010, Sarah Alawami  wrote:
 Subject: NOKIA - Nokia sues Apple in Wisconsin for infringement of 
 Nokia patents
 
 
 NOKIA
 
 
 
 Nokia sues Apple in Wisconsin for infringement of Nokia patents
 
 
 
 
 Espoo, Finland - Nokia announced that it has today filed a 
 complaint against Apple with the Federal District Court in the 
 Western District of Wisconsin, alleging that Apple iPhone and iPad 
 3G products infringe five important Nokia patents.
 
 The patents in question relate to technologies for enhanced speech 
 and data transmission, using positioning data in applications and 
 innovations in antenna configurations that improve performance and 
 save space, allowing smaller and more compact devices. These 
 patented innovations are important to Nokia's success as they allow 
 improved product performance and design.
 
 "Nokia has been the leading developer of many key technologies in 
 mobile devices" said Paul Melin, General Manager, Patent Licensing 
 at Nokia. "We have taken this step to protect the results of our 
 pioneering development and to put an end to continued unlawful use of 
 Nokia's innovation."
 
 During the last two decades, Nokia has invested approximately EUR 
 40 billion in research and development and built one of the 
 wireless industry's strongest and broadest IPR portfolios, with over 
 11,000 patent families.
 Nokia is a world leader in the development of handheld device and 
 mobile communications technologies, which is also demonstrated by 
 Nokia's strong patent portfolio.
 
 About Nokia
 At Nokia, we are committed to connecting people. We combine 
 advanced technology with personalized services that enable people 
 to stay close to what matters to them. Every day, more than 1.2 
 billion people connect to one another with a Nokia device - from 
 mobile phones to advanced smartphones and high-performance mobile 
 computers. Today, Nokia is integrating its devices with innovative 
 services through Ovi (www.ovi.com), including music, maps, apps, 
 email and more. Nokia's NAVTEQ is a leader in comprehensive digital 
 mapping and navigation services, while Nokia Siemens Networks provides 
 equipment, services and solutions for communications networks globally.
 
 FORWARD-LOOKING STATEMENTS
 It should be noted that certain statements herein which are not 
 historical facts are forward-looking statements, including, without 
 limitation, those
 regarding: A) the timing of the deliveries of our products and 
 services and their combinations; B) our ability to develop, 
 implement and commercialize new technologies, products and services 
 and their combinations; C) expectations regarding market 
 developments and structural changes; D) expectations and targets 
 regarding our industry volumes, market share, prices, net sales and 
 margins of products and services and their c

RE: Here is a new iPad VoiceOver bug

[Bryan Smart]

I purchased directly from Apple.

I'm really worried about their super short 14 day return period, which is up 
for me this week. I feel like I must make a move fast.

Maybe I'll head back over to Best Buy and check out one of theirs again.

In Settings, when I tap a button on the left, the first swipe is almost always 
rejected. However, I noticed that if I make a huge side-to-side screen swipe as 
my first swipe, it is recognized, but not like I'd expect. Sometimes, it 
swipes, and I hear the tone indicating that I've moved to another control group 
(the group on the right). Other times, focus will actually advance to the next 
button in the left column. In the first case, the iPad might be interpreting 
the swipe as a touch on the right side of the screen, or it might be confused 
and think that my one quickly moving finger is a four-finger-swipe?

The only point of this repro is that it is a way that I can consistently show 
that something is wrong. The odd things that happen in other apps aren't as 
predictable.

Anyway, thanks everyone for checking. It has got to be this particular iPad, or 
my finger, or smething unique to my situation, at least for the swiping bit.

What about the constantly running speaker? Anyone have that going on?

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Howell
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 11:19 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Here is a new iPad VoiceOver bug

Bryan,

Why not go back to where you purchase the iPad and see if you can perform the 
same tests on another unit. If there is an issue, they will of course replace 
it. In fact it would be interesting if you could get your hands on both models 
to try this experiment, but I really think the software versions will be the 
same, but still something to try. It would be pretty curious if they are 
slightly different software revisions.
On May 9, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:

> It is possible. There could be some small OS revision between the Wi-Fi and 
> 3G that introduced a problem. It is, like you say also possible that 
> something might be a bit electronically off with my touch screen. This is the 
> only iPad that I've ever used, other than a brief play with one at a Best 
> Buy, so I don't know if the behavior of mine is atypical or not.
> 
> It is frustrating, though. If I knew that I could swap it to resolve the 
> problem, that would work. If I knew it was just a software problem that could 
> be resolved soon, that might be fine, also. I just don't know.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo Walker
> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 7:58 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Here is a new iPad VoiceOver bug
> 
> Maybe we haven't heard about it because he is using the 3g model of the iPad. 
>  Every voiceover related review and podcast I have come across had featured 
> the wifi model.  So, Maybe the behavior Bryan is experiencing is only on the 
> 3g model.  Or it could just be his model imparticular.  
> On May 9, 2010, at 6:49 AM, Scott Howell wrote:
> 
>> Bryan,
>> 
>> Nice to know your the only one. :) So, have you brought your concerns to 
>> Apple's attention? The issue with the words being cut off is not a result of 
>> the iPad implementation. This is very apparent on the iPhone and I am quite 
>> certain the iPod Touch as well. It is an issue with the speech and I have 
>> filed this issue quite a while back and hope it will be addressed in the 
>> next version. I will be curious if others have experienced your issue and I 
>> find it hard to believe that if this is a bug, that no one else would have 
>> mentioned it. So, hopefully if it is a bug, people report it and I am sure 
>> Apple did not rush the product to market. You know that most products pushed 
>> out the door will have some issues that may not have been found. However, 
>> you are correct, I have not read anything about what your experiencing, 
>> which is interesting.
>> On May 8, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:
>> 
>>> OK, those of you with iPads, check this out.
>>> 
>>> I've noticed how swiping just doesn't work sometimes on my iPad. I thought, 
>>> hey, maybe it's me. It wasn't like this on my iPhone, though. I thought, 
>>> maybe the screen is just not as good. Turns out, though, VoiceOver just 
>>> isn't as good. I finally have a way to consistently show this crud. Wish 
>>> that I could come up with good repros for the other problems, though.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, here 

RE: Here is a new iPad VoiceOver bug

[Bryan Smart]

I noticed that, on my iPad, the hiss is there, even if VoiceOver is off.

When I first start the iPad, if I immediately lock the screen, the speaker will 
shut off in about 10 seconds. That's fine. After I've toggled VoiceOver on/off 
once, from that point forward, when the screen is locked, the hiss continues 
indefinitely. The iPad is supposed to be able to run for a long time just 
playng music (with the basic audio hardware running), but it sucks to have this 
drain going on when you're not even doing anything with it. I'm not sure that 
VoiceOver is directly involved, but VoiceOver influences it.

The iPad has a very thin usage statistics screen. It only shows me how much 3G 
data I've used.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Anne Robertson
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 4:16 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Here is a new iPad VoiceOver bug

Hello Marie,

Some people can hear a hiss from the iPhone when it is supposed to be in 
Standby mode. They can also hear a sound when they press the volume control. 
You can check whether your iPhone is going into Standby mode by looking at the 
Usage statistics (Settings, General, Usage). If your Usage and Standby are the 
same, you have the problem, if they are different, your iPhone is working 
correctly.

I get about 8 hours constant usage out of my iPhone, which usually works out at 
between 2 and 4 days between charges.

Cheers,

Anne

--
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RE: Jacob Nielsen article on testing the iPad

[Bryan Smart]

Pete,

This is not a product review. It is a summary of an academic study. In the 
summary that you read, he isn't expressing his personal like or dislike for the 
iPad. His conclusion is based on the results of the testing of the people in 
his study. The way those tests work is they tell the person to do something, 
without telling them how, and they observe how the person tries to accomplish 
the task. How long it takes a person to accomplish a task, how many mistakes 
they make, and even things like their frustration level are logged. In user 
interface design, the goal is to design interfaces that work like people 
expect, not to train people to work a particular interface. Of course, nothing 
is always obvious to all people, but the goal is to make the operation as 
obvious to as many people as is possible.

Some of this won't apply to blind people. VoiceOver gives blindies clues about 
what is clickable and what isn't. Sighted people don't have any automatic cues, 
like clickable things are circled or highlighted, though.

As far as the buttons at the bottom, that might be obvious to you, but not 
necessarily obvious to a sighted person. In western language, flow starts at 
the top left, and continues down while scanning across each row. Even though 
sighted people can see an entire screen at once, they can't focus on all of it 
read it all at once. Since they're trained, through reading, to scan left to 
right, top to bottom, this is also the common pattern that they use to scan a 
screen like the iPad. Of course, any experienced iPad user will eventually 
learn to look to the bottom for buttons to switch between pages, but that is 
something that must be learned. The more obvious way to do it is to put tabs at 
the top of the window. A sighted person looking at cards in a card file, for 
example, will see labeled tabs sticking out of the top of the cards. That's why 
multi page dialog boxes on Windows and OSX display their dialogs this way. This 
whole left to right, top to bottom approach is also why the OSX menu bar is at 
the top of the screen, while the dock is at the bottom. Any user wondering 
"where should I go next", or "how do I get back to the screen that does that 
thing", will naturally start looking at the top of the screen. Beyond that, 
there are gesture reasons for the menu bar being up there, such as the mouse 
gesture for zipping to the top of the screen is very easy (just push the mouse 
away from you). By contrast, the dock, at the bottom, is the last thing they 
see. This is because you're likely to need to perform actions in the current 
program before you need to switch to another constantly. Also, the dock isn't 
extremely useful to sighted users, as most of them would just switch to another 
app by clicking a visible portion of one of the app's windows.

Apple has very strong interface guidelines for designing desktop apps, but they 
aren't as strict, at least in that area, for mobile apps. So, he says that 
developers are left to their own ideas about how apps should work, and the 
result is that not everyone knows what to expect from app to app.

Anyway, all that to say that this guy is an expert in user interface design, 
and his highly informed and tested conclusion is that better choices could have 
been made to make it so that the iPad's operation was more obvious to untrained 
people than it is now.

Bryan



On May 11, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Pete Nalda wrote:

> Thanks for the article.  While he makes some valid points, I get the feeling 
> he just doesn't like the iPad.  That's ok, but the first thing he complains 
> about is the dock.  I had no problem noticing it myself.  I think that anyone 
> would be inclined to study the whole screen, and not just the top, and I'd 
> bet that people would read reviews where they talk about it.  Also that "Tab 
> Bar" is called a Dock.  The rest of the review just sort of follows this 
> complaint.  Also, he didn't even review the built in apps at all.  What about 
> ibooks?  I'm sorry, I still get the idea he just wants to hate the iPad and 
> for that matter probably hates Apple's way of doing things.
> 
> On May 11, 2010, at 3:53 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I don't know if many on this list will be familiar with the work of 
>> Jacob Nielsen.  For those who don't know him, he's one of the 
>> foremost minds in the field of interaction design.  Those who took 
>> (or are taking) computer science at University may have encountered 
>> his work during courses in HCI or User-Interaction design.  He is 
>> well-known for the famous "Nielsen's 10 heuristics" which play a major part 
>> in interface design.
>> 
>> Anyway he's done some testing on the iPad.  I don't have one myself, 
>> and don't have a personal interest in getting one (though I may get 
>> one for my lab to do some projects on), but I thought the link below 
>> might interest some people on the list.
>> 
>> http://www.useit.com/alertbox/ipad.html

RE: Jacob Nielsen article on testing the iPad

[Bryan Smart]

You're right. It isn't a tab bar.

However, lots of iPhone and iPad apps try to use it that way. Have you used the 
App Store or Skype? They put buttons at the bottom of the screen, where the 
dock should be, that are used for switching between pages of the current view 
(tabs). Those tab buttons should be at the top of the screen. Anyone that has 
seen how any other graphical user interface works would expect the layout to be 
like that. It wouldn't cost app developers anything in terms of screen space to 
just put the buttons at the top, instead of the bottom. Not sure why the trend 
started of putting them at the bottom. Apple doesn't say that they should, and 
it has probably become monkey see, monkey do, in terms of copying existing 
programs.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Pete Nalda
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:32 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Jacob Nielsen article on testing the iPad

Shoot!  I'm not afraid to disagree with him, no matter who he is.  Why not use 
proper naming when discussing a piece of technology?  The Dock is not a Tab 
bar, and it is plainly visible.  Also, it seems the article left out so much 
else of what the iPad has to offer.

On May 11, 2010, at 9:20 AM, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote:

> It's an interesting read and I'm not about to disagree with someone like him.
> 
> Thanks for the link; your right - he has come up in an hci module I've 
> just finished.
> 
> On 11/05/2010, olivia norman  wrote:
>> Interesting, I've heard of him, but haven't read his work previously.
>> Thanks for sending.
>> Olivia
>> On May 11, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Pete Nalda wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks for the article.  While he makes some valid points, I get the 
>>> feeling he just doesn't like the iPad.  That's ok, but the first 
>>> thing he complains about is the dock.  I had no problem noticing it 
>>> myself.  I think that anyone would be inclined to study the whole 
>>> screen, and not just the top, and I'd bet that people would read 
>>> reviews where they talk about it.  Also that "Tab Bar" is called a 
>>> Dock.  The rest of the review just sort of follows this complaint.  
>>> Also, he didn't even review the built in apps at all.  What about 
>>> ibooks?  I'm sorry, I still get the idea he just wants to hate the 
>>> iPad and for that matter probably hates Apple's way of doing things.
>>> 
>>> On May 11, 2010, at 3:53 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote:
>>> 
 Hi all,
 
 I don't know if many on this list will be familiar with the work of 
 Jacob Nielsen.  For those who don't know him, he's one of the 
 foremost minds in the field of interaction design.  Those who took 
 (or are taking) computer science at University may have encountered 
 his work during courses in HCI or User-Interaction design.  He is 
 well-known for the famous "Nielsen's 10 heuristics" which play a 
 major part in interface design.
 
 Anyway he's done some testing on the iPad.  I don't have one 
 myself, and don't have a personal interest in getting one (though I 
 may get one for my lab to do some projects on), but I thought the 
 link below might interest some people on the list.
 
 http://www.useit.com/alertbox/ipad.html
 
 Enjoy,
 
 Dónal
 
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>>> 
>>> Egun On, Lagunak! (Basque for G'day, Mates) Pete Nalda 
>>> http://www.myspace.com/musikonalda
>>> http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
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RE: Mack Mini and Monitor?

[Bryan Smart]

But VGA will be low quality video. If you have an HD television, you won't get 
HD signal that way.

Use HDMI first. If you can't use that, then use VGA, then composite, and 
finally component video (the worst).

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Chris Blouch
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 4:03 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mack Mini and Monitor?

Since your TV is kind of new it might have VGA inputs. Some do now days. If 
that's the case you can skip the VGA to NTSC converter box. If not, the 
converter has both RCA and SVideo (4-pin cable) outputs. Most TVs have SVideo 
these days. All the cables come with it.

CB

Courtney Curran wrote: 

This could be a dumb question, but my Tv's about 2 or 3 years old, does 
this matter? 
Thanks, 
Courtney

On 07/05/2010, at 3:01 in the Afternoon, Chris Blouch wrote:


It used to be that you could use a mini-DVI to NTSC to 'trick' 
the mini into thinking there was a monitor but that stopped working when Apple 
dropped the analog signals from their DVI implementation. Really, how many 
people still had ntsc or pal TVs and were going to hook them up to a mini? 
Well, I'm one of them so the best I could figure out was to get the miniDVI to 
VGA adapter and then a VGA to NTSC converter. Now my mini thinks there is a VGA 
display hooked up all the time, whether or not the TV is actually on. Whether 
you come out ahead cost wise doing this is another thing, but you'll probably 
want the VGA hook up anyway.

So depending on which Mini you have you'll either needs the 
Apple Mini DVI to VGA adapter for $20

http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9320G/A?mco=MTY3ODQ5OTY

or the Apple DisplayPort to VGA adapter for $30

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB572Z/A?mco=MTY3ODQ5OTY

I think newer Minis come with both so you could go with the 
cheaper MiniDVI to VGA adapter and then a VGA to NTSC adapter. I found a cheap 
one which runs off the USB power for $30 here:

http://sewelldirect.com/pc-to-tv.asp

Hope this helps.

        CB

Bryan Smart wrote: 

If there was an FAQ for this list, the frustrating and 
repetitious subject of Minis and monitors would probably be at the top. I know 
that there is no reason to assume that newbies should know this, so there is no 
reason to blast them, but it gets so old covering this over and over again. We 
literally seem to have a thread about it 2 or 3 times a week.

No, the Mini and VoiceOver won't work right without a 
monitor.

Yes, that's why Safari and other apps always say that 
they're "busy, busy, busy, busy".

No, there is no adaptor that you can plug in to it that 
will fake a monitor being attached.

No, the Mini isn't supposed to be a portable computer.

No, Apple isn't going to do anything to fix this in the 
future, as far as we know.

Don't feel bad, Courtney. Lots of other people assume, 
like you, that this will work. It doesn't. No way that you could know without 
asking in advance. Hope that this helps and saves time.

Maybe this is reason #1 to start an FAQ for this list?

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Romack
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 4:46 PM
To: MacVisionaries
Subject: Re: Mack Mini and Monitor?

A couple points to note here:

Ben - Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Rude, much? Consider that new 
members join this list every day, and they aren't privi to previous threads, 
unless they have no social life and sit and read every message dated back to 
the conception of this list. Apple picked a name for this product line that 
draws the to the assumption that the computer is "mini" enough to be portable. 
Consider that not everyone is as informed as you. Okay?

For the sake of this thread, and the notion that Ben 
m

RE: Jacob Nielsen article on testing the iPad

[Bryan Smart]

Besides, he isn't saying that the iPad is crap. This is a guy that lives and 
sleeps user interface design. He's just always thinking about how it could be 
better.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ricardo Walker
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:55 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Jacob Nielsen article on testing the iPad

Hi,

Keep in mind, the 7 people used in the studio had experience with an iPhone and 
1 had been using an iPad for a week.  So these people weren't completely in the 
dark when it came to using the UI found on the iPad On May 11, 2010, at 11:00 
AM, Pete Nalda wrote:

> Ok.  Yes I'll admit it was a "Usability Study", and not a review.  And I also 
> agree that things could be changed to make it more "usable" to the masses, 
> but, I think, also, that in this day and time, people are going to get a 
> chance to experience some "how it works" information prior to sitting down 
> with it.  I also feel that there are very few products (especially computers) 
> that are automatically useable out of the box without some form of study.  
> That's why there are quick start guides and the like.  Also, I think that the 
> majority of iPad buyers will have had experience with another Apple product, 
> thus allowing them the ability to figure out the interface.
> 
> On May 11, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:
> 
>> Pete,
>> 
>> This is not a product review. It is a summary of an academic study. In the 
>> summary that you read, he isn't expressing his personal like or dislike for 
>> the iPad. His conclusion is based on the results of the testing of the 
>> people in his study. The way those tests work is they tell the person to do 
>> something, without telling them how, and they observe how the person tries 
>> to accomplish the task. How long it takes a person to accomplish a task, how 
>> many mistakes they make, and even things like their frustration level are 
>> logged. In user interface design, the goal is to design interfaces that work 
>> like people expect, not to train people to work a particular interface. Of 
>> course, nothing is always obvious to all people, but the goal is to make the 
>> operation as obvious to as many people as is possible.
>> 
>> Some of this won't apply to blind people. VoiceOver gives blindies clues 
>> about what is clickable and what isn't. Sighted people don't have any 
>> automatic cues, like clickable things are circled or highlighted, though.
>> 
>> As far as the buttons at the bottom, that might be obvious to you, but not 
>> necessarily obvious to a sighted person. In western language, flow starts at 
>> the top left, and continues down while scanning across each row. Even though 
>> sighted people can see an entire screen at once, they can't focus on all of 
>> it read it all at once. Since they're trained, through reading, to scan left 
>> to right, top to bottom, this is also the common pattern that they use to 
>> scan a screen like the iPad. Of course, any experienced iPad user will 
>> eventually learn to look to the bottom for buttons to switch between pages, 
>> but that is something that must be learned. The more obvious way to do it is 
>> to put tabs at the top of the window. A sighted person looking at cards in a 
>> card file, for example, will see labeled tabs sticking out of the top of the 
>> cards. That's why multi page dialog boxes on Windows and OSX display their 
>> dialogs this way. This whole left to right, top to bottom approach is also 
>> why the OSX menu bar is at the top of the screen, while the dock is at the 
>> bottom. Any user wondering "where should I go next", or "how do I get back 
>> to the screen that does that thing", will naturally start looking at the top 
>> of the screen. Beyond that, there are gesture reasons for the menu bar being 
>> up there, such as the mouse gesture for zipping to the top of the screen is 
>> very easy (just push the mouse away from you). By contrast, the dock, at the 
>> bottom, is the last thing they see. This is because you're likely to need to 
>> perform actions in the current program before you need to switch to another 
>> constantly. Also, the dock isn't extremely useful to sighted users, as most 
>> of them would just switch to another app by clicking a visible portion of 
>> one of the app's windows.
>> 
>> Apple has very strong interface guidelines for designing desktop apps, but 
>> they aren't as strict, at least in that area, for mobil

RE: improvements for garage band with latest build of 10.6.4

[Bryan Smart]

10.6.3 was supposed to do something with VoiceOver, though no one could tell 
exactly what that something was. It would be real cool if Apple could include 
detailed change logs or something when a new OS version comes out. Maybe they 
do, but I haven't seen them. Anyone have one that lists VO changes in 10.6.3, 
for example?

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Yuma Antoine Decaux
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 12:11 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: improvements for garage band with latest build of 10.6.4

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/14/apple_seeds_third_build_of_mac_os_x_10_6_4_to_developers.html

THis seems interesting, but im more in the loop for the pro tools release due 
soon




Yuma Decaux

Light has no value without darkness
Skype: shainobi1
blog: www.theblindsamurai.com
twitter: www.twitter.com/triple7
Tel: +85513623378





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RE: an Imac and voiceover?

[Bryan Smart]

Hi.

The accessibility support for Pro Tools will be in an update to Pro Tools 8.

In order to run Pro Tools 8, you need an Intel Mac (the Power PC support 
stopped with Pro Tools 7). You must be running Leopard (10.5.5) or later. 
Actually, you might need a later version than that for full accessibility 
support (can't comment on that yet). Of course, you'll also need a qualifying 
M-Audio interface to use M-Powered, or a Avid/Digi interface to run LE. Pro 
Tools HD, of course, is only compatible with Mac Pro.

Beyond these requirements, the number of processor cores that are available on 
your computer, the processor's speed, the amount of memory, and the speed of 
your hard drive will affect how much you're actually able to do with Pro Tools. 
Pro Tools will run on a low-end iMac or Mini, for example, but the number of 
software instruments, effects, and tracks of audio will be limited. The single 
5400 RPM hard drive in the Mini and on MacBooks will prevent you from using a 
large number of audio tracks, will cause software instruments to switch between 
instrument sounds slowly, and will generally result in a sluggish Pro Tools 
experience. You really need a dual 7200 RPM drive setup, or better, for best 
performance. If you plan to use a lot of software instruments, you should have 
4GB of memory at minimum. Every effect or software instrument that you add to 
your project consumes CPU power. Lower-end machines will be able to taste all 
of the features, but will run out of power quickly as effects and instruments 
are added to a project. A higher-end iMac with an I5 or I7 processor, or a Mac 
Pro should be your choice if you intend to work with anything other than small 
projects.

If you're serious about doing this, don't cheap out on a low-end machine. I've 
been talking to people on other lists that already have plans about how they 
plan to frankinhack Minis by replacing the internal drive, swapping out the 
optical drive for another HD, using an external drive as their second drive, 
etc. After they fully upgrade and retrofit their Mini, though, they could have 
just as well bought a nice iMac, with a far larger 3.5" form-factor drive and 
faster CPU.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 11:47 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: an Imac and voiceover?

laughter!
i was feeling the same. I got my answer long ago.  Tiger is all this might do, 
making it not worth the upgrade, since as it is now it works fine for my 
personal needs.
Once pro tools gives me a reason, I can simply get another machine.
Kare

On Wed, 19 May 2010, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote:

> for the sake of everyones sanitty on the list, shal we just agree to 
> disagree on this one Karren?
> To answer your original question, if the iMac has a 600mhz cpu, it 
> will be able to run tiger (The first version of osx with voiceover) 
> well enough but will not be able to run leopard or snow leopard - I am 
> guessing that pt will require that you run leopard or sl for it to 
> work when the new version comes out.
> You will be able to do a tiger install yourself since it is fully 
> accessible, so perhaps you could use the iMac as a internet surfing 
> machine running tiger to get used to vo when the time is right to 
> purchase a new computer for pt?
>
> Iether way, good luck with pt, regardless of which version or computer 
> your using.
>
> Cheers, Ben.
>
> On 19/05/2010, Nicolai Svendsen  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Yes, that's correct. It depends on what configuration she has, but 
>> Leopard can use G4 and G5 867MHZ processors.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nic
>> Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com
>> GoogleTalk: chojiro1...@gmail.com
>> Facebook
>> Twitter
>> Skype: Kvalme
>> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk Yahoo! Messenger: cin368
>> AIM: cincinster
>>
>> On May 19, 2010, at 1:51 AM, Ana G wrote:
>>
>>> I just read a blog post on something else, and I noticed that one of 
>>> the people who commented on the post said she had an iMac with 
>>> Leopard. She didn't give any other details about her configuration, 
>>> so I don't know how helpful this is.
>>> --
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>>>
>>
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RE: an Imac and voiceover?

[Bryan Smart]

I'm not able to give estimates.

Bryan 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: an Imac and voiceover?

Hi Brian,
Thanks for the well informed post.
This is exactly why I will wait to buy my new mac until after this edition of 
pro tools is already out, and available.  I want to get as I did for my present 
setup, the best computer for my needs.  The interface will not be a problem, I 
already have a digi 002, and am told by other sources that the unit will  be 
supported in this up coming edition.
Once it is here, I can get my new mac based on just what I will require to meet 
my professional needs.
any estimate on when this is really happening?
Karen

On Wed, 19 May 2010, Bryan Smart wrote:

> Hi.
>
> The accessibility support for Pro Tools will be in an update to Pro Tools 8.
>
> In order to run Pro Tools 8, you need an Intel Mac (the Power PC support 
> stopped with Pro Tools 7). You must be running Leopard (10.5.5) or later. 
> Actually, you might need a later version than that for full accessibility 
> support (can't comment on that yet). Of course, you'll also need a qualifying 
> M-Audio interface to use M-Powered, or a Avid/Digi interface to run LE. Pro 
> Tools HD, of course, is only compatible with Mac Pro.
>
> Beyond these requirements, the number of processor cores that are available 
> on your computer, the processor's speed, the amount of memory, and the speed 
> of your hard drive will affect how much you're actually able to do with Pro 
> Tools. Pro Tools will run on a low-end iMac or Mini, for example, but the 
> number of software instruments, effects, and tracks of audio will be limited. 
> The single 5400 RPM hard drive in the Mini and on MacBooks will prevent you 
> from using a large number of audio tracks, will cause software instruments to 
> switch between instrument sounds slowly, and will generally result in a 
> sluggish Pro Tools experience. You really need a dual 7200 RPM drive setup, 
> or better, for best performance. If you plan to use a lot of software 
> instruments, you should have 4GB of memory at minimum. Every effect or 
> software instrument that you add to your project consumes CPU power. 
> Lower-end machines will be able to taste all of the features, but will run 
> out of power quickly as effects and instruments are added to a project. A 
> higher-end iMac with an I5 or I7 processor, or a Mac Pro should be your 
> choice if you intend to work with anything other than small projects.
>
> If you're serious about doing this, don't cheap out on a low-end machine. 
> I've been talking to people on other lists that already have plans about how 
> they plan to frankinhack Minis by replacing the internal drive, swapping out 
> the optical drive for another HD, using an external drive as their second 
> drive, etc. After they fully upgrade and retrofit their Mini, though, they 
> could have just as well bought a nice iMac, with a far larger 3.5" 
> form-factor drive and faster CPU.
>
> Bryan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 11:47 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: an Imac and voiceover?
>
> laughter!
> i was feeling the same. I got my answer long ago.  Tiger is all this might 
> do, making it not worth the upgrade, since as it is now it works fine for my 
> personal needs.
> Once pro tools gives me a reason, I can simply get another machine.
> Kare
>
> On Wed, 19 May 2010, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote:
>
>> for the sake of everyones sanitty on the list, shal we just agree to 
>> disagree on this one Karren?
>> To answer your original question, if the iMac has a 600mhz cpu, it 
>> will be able to run tiger (The first version of osx with voiceover) 
>> well enough but will not be able to run leopard or snow leopard - I 
>> am guessing that pt will require that you run leopard or sl for it to 
>> work when the new version comes out.
>> You will be able to do a tiger install yourself since it is fully 
>> accessible, so perhaps you could use the iMac as a internet surfing 
>> machine running tiger to get used to vo when the time is right to 
>> purchase a new computer for pt?
>>
>> Iether way, good luck with pt, regardless of which version or 
>> computer your using.
>>
>> Cheers, Ben.
>>
>> On 19/05/2010, Nicolai Svendsen  wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Yes, that's correct. It depends on what configuration 

RE: request for the logic scripts

[Bryan Smart]

One thing to keep in mind is that Logic, and Pro Tools too, for that matter, 
aren't and won't be like packages like Sonar/CakeTalking for Windows. The Logic 
scripts are a skelital effort to see even if things could be made to work at 
all. Nothing has been done to make it easy to learn or comprehend. You'll need 
to read the Logic manual, try to conceptualize what is happening visually, 
study the hot key and script reference, and experiment. If you think that you 
can just start it up and start poking around with hotkeys, or just skim the 
online help as needed, then you're going to get nothing but frustration. Logic 
is not Garage Band. It's full of concepts and tools that you've probably never 
heard of before, and is designed to give you lots of options, rather than to be 
as simplified as GB.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:37 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: request for the logic scripts

Hmmm, seems after reading some of the readme file seems like ther are a lot of 
commands that do complex things but I'm not really seeing simple commands like 
to start recording from an input source...I guess I might figure that out once 
logic is installed. Ah well, I'll look at it and figure it out later.

Thanks agian
Cody
On May 26, 2010, at 3:23 PM, Cameron wrote:

> Hi.  yep, no problem.  this was the last release as far as I am aware.
> 
> Cameron.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:18 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: request for the logic scripts
> 
> Thank you I'll give them a shot let me know if there is another copy 
> you've got that perhaps might be better I'll give these a wurl.
> 
> Thanks
> Cody
> On May 26, 2010, at 2:41 PM, Cameron wrote:
> 
>> Here you go.
>> 
>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2148514/Logic%20access%20V3.1.zip
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cody Hurst
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:27 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: request for the logic scripts
>> 
>> As I said, if it was at all accessible, I would have heard about it 
>> long ago. So my original question stands. Where do I get these logic 
>> scripts On May 26, 2010, at 4:59 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
>> 
>>> Also, last i tested Reaper on the Mac it didn't work at all. I doubt 
>>> the
>> Mac version is accessible but if i'm wrong please correct me.
>>> /Krister
>>> 25 maj 2010 kl. 23.00 skrev Cody Hurst:
>>> 
 Reaper? that is windows software, I have logic and want to use it 
 and am
>> looking for the scripts. I've used reaper on windows and do not like it.
 On May 25, 2010, at 4:57 PM, clarence griffin wrote:
 
> you should try reaper. its free and quite powerful. there is also
> screen
>> reader support for 4 screen readers, that I know of so far.
> 
> GF
> 
> On May 25, 2010, at 3:31 PM, Cody Hurst wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I've seen discussion on the list about some scripts for logic. 
>> I'd
> know
>> to know what can be done with these scripts I.E. multi track editing 
>> and
> the
>> capabilities of editting a single track at a time. Panning, volume, 
>> arm
> and
>> unarm, etc. Can I also get some feedback on those who have used the
> scripts
>> or hotkeys which ever you want to call them. I'm looking for 
>> something
> more
>> professional than amadeus pro, and while I'm waiting on Pro tools to 
>> be released I'm hoping that I can do what I need until then.
>> 
>> 
>> --
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>> Google
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> 
> 
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RE: any news on pro tools?

[Bryan Smart]

I'm involved with Waves in a project to fix access for their entire line of 
plugs. There stuff isn't the most affordable, but it is very high quality. The 
access improvements will help in Pro Tools, but will also be just as useful for 
anyone using them in GarageBand, Logic, or Windows DAWs like Sonar. The public 
won't have these improvements for probably close to half a year, but the end 
result should be very good. To some extent, due to how Pro Tools uses synth and 
effects plug ins, most of the Waves plug ins will work right away, just not as 
good as they will work in the future.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Slau Halatyn
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:31 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: any news on pro tools?

Hi Gary,

There are a couple of ways to record enable, solo or mute tracks. One is by 
selecting a given track and pressing keyboard shortcuts. Another is to navigate 
through tracks and setting the individual controls as needed. For the most 
part, plug-ins are accessible including third party plug-ins. One of the 
testers did have a problem with G TR but Waves is apparently aware of the issue.

Slau

On May 28, 2010, at 7:51 AM, Gary Readfern-Gray wrote:

> Hi does anyone know if the accessibility includes selecting a given 
> track and then changing settings on that track such as arming mute 
> solo etc? I'm assuming that these basics are covered. I'm asking 
> because in Sonar/Logic you first focus the track you want to adjust 
> and then there are keys for adjusting panning etc. However, in 
> protools, I can't find a way to say go to track 19 or go to the track 
> called bass. I'm sure I heard that the plugins are also going to be 
> accessible? wow, that would be awesome! Does anyone know if that 
> includes 3rd-party plugins? I have Waves GTR and if I could get access 
> to that properly, I'd be in guitar heaven!
> 
> G
> 
> On 5/28/10, Courtney Curran  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I think it's Protools M Powered, I'll have to check.
>> 
>> On 27/05/2010, at 10:33 in the Afternoon, Slau Halatyn wrote:
>> 
>>> For what it's worth, I have no idea what "Pro Tools Essentials" is. 
>>> I can tell you categorically that Pro Tools HD, LE and M-Powered 
>>> will be accessible. Pro Tools Essentials may or may not fall under that 
>>> category.
>>> I have no idea, just to be clear.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Slau
>>> 
>>> On May 27, 2010, at 7:46 PM, Courtney Curran wrote:
>>> 
 Oh, thank you so much, I'll tell my reader. So for now, I'll just 
 have someone help me with it until a couple weeks from now.
 I bought the one on disk, the $99 one that came with a mic, am I 
 still entitled to a free download.
 Thanks so much,
 Courtney
 On 27/05/2010, at 7:09 in the Afternoon, Slau Halatyn wrote:
 
> version 8.0.4 will be the version that is accessible. You'll be 
> entitled to a free download. Should be another couple of weeks.
> 
> Slau
> 
> On May 27, 2010, at 7:01 PM, Courtney Curran wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> I just got Protools Friday, should it work with Snow Leopard and 
>> be accessible? I need it for my audio production class.
>> Thanks,
>> Courtney
>> 
>> On 08/05/2010, at 9:01 in the morning, Yuma Antoine Decaux wrote:
>> 
>>> Thats great news. Perfect timing for me :)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the 
>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> For more options, visit this group at 
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> 
>> 
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> 
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 macvisionaries+

RE: any news on pro tools?

[Bryan Smart]

Slau, does this mean that it is cool for us beta people to talk about details 
now? If so, I have a lot of questions to answer on other lists.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Slau Halatyn
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 1:30 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: any news on pro tools?

They're acessible in the sense that all automateable parameters are accessible. 
Some buttons, since they're not automateable, are not seen in the plug-ins 
window but can be accessed via a macro program like quicKeys (similar to Hot 
Spot Clicker).

HTH

Slau

On May 28, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Gary Readfern-Gray wrote:

> Brilliant, thanks Slau. So are you saying that the software 
> instruments that ship with PT such as boom are accessible? I can't 
> wait!
> 
> G
> 
> On 5/28/10, Slau Halatyn  wrote:
>> Hey Frank,
>> 
>> I had the same Otari remote. Physical switches are nice but not 
>> really practical these days unless you're tracking to a RADAR which, 
>> by the way, is accessible.
>> 
>> Anyway, when tracking live bands, one would simply arm all the tracks 
>> with one keyboard command so it's not really an issue. Further, a 
>> control surface would simplify things to a large degree, for what it's worth.
>> 
>> Level metering is via a numeric value that can toggle between no peak 
>> hold,
>> 3 second peak hold and infinite peak hold with a clip indicator that 
>> can be persistent if desired.
>> 
>> Slau
>> 
>> On May 28, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Frank Carmickle wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Slau
>>> 
>>> I am concerned about how efficient I can be when tracking.  I used 
>>> to record using the remote for the Otari mx80 which had actual mini 
>>> toggle switches for track arming and play/record/repro.  I have 
>>> actually found someone who can build me a remote with real switches for 
>>> around $5,000.
>>> If I can have the braille display cursor routing keys toggle the 
>>> armed state and display the state then I can have the same 
>>> functionality but also get a braille display out of the deal.  I 
>>> guess I'm going to have to learn how to do some Apple scripting.
>>> 
>>> I plan on doing lots of live tracking with full bands where I feel 
>>> as though I will need to have a speedy way of knowing the track 
>>> armed state with out having to listen to 24 or 32 status messages.  
>>> I am really looking forward to trying out the level monitoring.  Do 
>>> they have a tone generator following the amplitude or just a numeric 
>>> value with a peek hold setup?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for keeping us all informed.
>>> --FC
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 28, 2010, at 10:27 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
>>> 
 I don't use a braille display. Also, the only instance where I need 
 to refer to the screen reader while monitoring audio is when taking levels.
 At that point, I'm not really monitoring for sound, per se, just 
 for signal so I simply dim the monitors, read the levels as 
 necessary and then turn up the monitors again.
 
 HTH
 
 On May 28, 2010, at 10:06 AM, Frank Carmickle wrote:
 
> Hello
> 
> I grabbed a echo audiofire 12 when they were on sale at Christmas time.
> I haven't even plugged it in to the mac yet.  I was trying to 
> explore garageband a bit but I didn't get very far with importing 
> some wav files.  I have found the learning curve with the mac to 
> be high.  I hope that now that I understand it a bit more jumping 
> in to protools won't be to difficult.  I am very interested to try 
> PT with a braille display.  I hate listening to audio and speech 
> at the same time.  Slau have you had a chance to try PT with a 
> braille display?  If so how easy is it to get a quick look at what tracks 
> are armed?
> 
> Take care
> --FC
> 
> On May 28, 2010, at 8:30 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
> 
>> Hi Gary,
>> 
>> There are a couple of ways to record enable, solo or mute tracks. 
>> One is by selecting a given track and pressing keyboard 
>> shortcuts. Another is to navigate through tracks and setting the 
>> individual controls as needed. For the most part, plug-ins are 
>> accessible including third party plug-ins. One of the testers did 
>> have a problem with G TR but Waves is apparently aware of the issue.
>> 
>> Slau
>> 
>> On May 28, 2010, at 7:51 AM, Gary Readfern-Gray wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi does anyone know if the accessibility includes selecting a 
>>> given track and then changing settings on that track such as 
>>> arming mute solo etc? I'm assuming that these basics are 
>>> covered. I'm asking because in Sonar/Logic you first focus the 
>>> track you want to adjust and then there are keys for adjusting 
>>> panning etc. However, in protools, I can't find a way to say go 
>>> to track 19 or go to the track called bass. I'm sure I heard 
>>> tha

RE: any news on pro tools?

[Bryan Smart]

In a lot of ways, the Radar should be just accessible out of the box. Not in 
terms that it will speak to you, but just for the fact that it has a physical 
control for just about every function. It isn't a full DAW, but is mainly just 
a multitrack digital recorder. The really popular thing about the Radar is 
that, because of all of the physical controls, it is also a magnificent machine 
for editing. I don't mean a cut and paste here and there, but, if you have a 
project where you must slice it up in to many tiny pieces, and reassemble all 
of those pieces in a different way, or manually edit timing mistakes, and 
you've memorized all of the shortcut commands, then you can edit at a speed 
that someone working with a mouse would never be able to match. Oh, if only 
there were a full DAW like that. However, the mind boggling amount of 
keyboard-based editing support from Pro Tools isn't too far away from that 
goal. Pro Tools keyboard support is way deeper than even highly 
keyboard-focused DAWs like Sonar and Logic.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Slau Halatyn
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 1:33 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: any news on pro tools?

Hi Frank,

Yes, from what I understand, IZ Technologies has worked with a few blind 
individuals to make the RADAR accessible. For those who don't know, the RADAR 
was conceived as a replacement for analog multitrack recorders. It is widely 
regarded in the audio industry as being perhaps the best sounding digital 
recorder in terms of it's analog to digital conversion. You can contact them 
directly to get more information regarding accessibility.

HTH

Slau

On May 28, 2010, at 12:35 PM, Frank Carmickle wrote:

> Hi Slau
> 
> On May 28, 2010, at 11:21 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
> 
>> Hey Frank,
>> 
>> I had the same Otari remote. Physical switches are nice but not really 
>> practical these days unless you're tracking to a RADAR which, by the way, is 
>> accessible.
>> 
> I was going to respond to you off list about this but I thought maybe someone 
> else might want to know about this as well.  I am very interested in 
> accessibility of the radar.  I have looked around on the web on many 
> occasions and have found nothing.  Please let me know how I can find out more.
> 
>> Anyway, when tracking live bands, one would simply arm all the tracks with 
>> one keyboard command so it's not really an issue. Further, a control surface 
>> would simplify things to a large degree, for what it's worth.
>> 
> One keyboard command works for me.
> 
>> Level metering is via a numeric value that can toggle between no peak hold, 
>> 3 second peak hold and infinite peak hold with a clip indicator that can be 
>> persistent if desired.
>> 
> Very good.
> 
> Thanks again
> --FC
> 
> --
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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RE: any news on pro tools?

[Bryan Smart]

The base systems usually come with roughly the same set of plug ins, whether 
you buy MPowered, LE, or HD. You typically buy a base system, and then add on 
the features that you need through upgrade packs. For example, they have one 
upgrade pack targeted at people using Pro Tools for editing and sequencing 
along with video projects, another pack targeted at people using Pro Tools for 
MIDI composition with software instruments, etc. You also can buy individual 
plug ins and features, like upgrading ala cart. There are many options, so, 
like Slau says, contact Avid, or a dealer, tell them what you're trying to do, 
and let them suggest a set of options that will help you out. ordering a 
version with everything and the kitchen sink isn't practical unless you have 
mountains of money. Plus, it's just a waste. For me, I'm a composer and mixer. 
I wouldn't want to pay money for a bunch of expensive options to sync video, 
import/export video formats, connect to satellite video feeds, connect to slave 
PT systems, etc. Those features are expensive, and do me no good. If I want, I 
can add them later, though. As long as I have lots of instruments and effects, 
I'm well equipped.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Chuck Reichel
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 12:17 PM
To: MacVisionaries
Subject: Re: any news on pro tools?

Hi Justin,

I believe its the protools  HD7 package as far as I know.

Chuck Reichel
954-742-0019



On May 29, 2010, at 10:37 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote:

> This is a perfect question for Avid to answer. It's best to contact 
> them directly since they can answer further question that might come 
> up after your first question is answered.
>
> Best,
>
> Slau
>
> On May 29, 2010, at 8:35 AM, Justin Thornton wrote:
>
>> hi
>> I have an interesting question
>> which version of protools is the largest and comes with the most 
>> software this includes pluggins and vst instruments and so on thanks
>>
>> On May 28, 2010, at 8:30 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Gary,
>>>
>>> There are a couple of ways to record enable, solo or mute tracks.  
>>> One is by selecting a given track and pressing keyboard shortcuts.  
>>> Another is to navigate through tracks and setting the individual 
>>> controls as needed. For the most part, plug-ins are accessible 
>>> including third party plug-ins. One of the testers did have a 
>>> problem with G TR but Waves is apparently aware of the issue.
>>>
>>> Slau
>>>
>>> On May 28, 2010, at 7:51 AM, Gary Readfern-Gray wrote:
>>>
 Hi does anyone know if the accessibility includes selecting a given 
 track and then changing settings on that track such as arming mute 
 solo etc? I'm assuming that these basics are covered. I'm asking 
 because in Sonar/Logic you first focus the track you want to adjust 
 and then there are keys for adjusting panning etc. However, in 
 protools, I can't find a way to say go to track 19 or go to the 
 track called bass. I'm sure I heard that the plugins are also going 
 to be accessible? wow, that would be awesome! Does anyone know if 
 that includes 3rd-party plugins? I have Waves GTR and if I could 
 get access to that properly, I'd be in guitar heaven!

 G

 On 5/28/10, Courtney Curran  wrote:
> Hi,
> I think it's Protools M Powered, I'll have to check.
>
> On 27/05/2010, at 10:33 in the Afternoon, Slau Halatyn wrote:
>
>> For what it's worth, I have no idea what "Pro Tools Essentials"  
>> is. I can
>> tell you categorically that Pro Tools HD, LE and M-Powered will 
>> be accessible. Pro Tools Essentials may or may not fall under 
>> that category.
>> I have no idea, just to be clear.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Slau
>>
>> On May 27, 2010, at 7:46 PM, Courtney Curran wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, thank you so much, I'll tell my reader. So for now, I'll 
>>> just have someone help me with it until a couple weeks from now.
>>> I bought the one on disk, the $99 one that came with a mic, am I 
>>> still entitled to a free download.
>>> Thanks so much,
>>> Courtney
>>> On 27/05/2010, at 7:09 in the Afternoon, Slau Halatyn wrote:
>>>
 version 8.0.4 will be the version that is accessible. You'll be 
 entitled to a free download. Should be another couple of weeks.

 Slau

 On May 27, 2010, at 7:01 PM, Courtney Curran wrote:

> Hi,
> I just got Protools Friday, should it work with Snow Leopard 
> and be accessible? I need it for my audio production class.
> Thanks,
> Courtney
>
> On 08/05/2010, at 9:01 in the morning, Yuma Antoine Decaux
> wrote:
>
>> Thats great news. Perfect timing for me :)
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscri

RE: Very cool voip

[Bryan Smart]

I tried to use this on my iPad. It would never sign in to my SIP provider. It 
sounded cool, but never functioned.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Pete Nalda
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 7:36 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Very cool voip

Cool!  I've asked about this before and no one had heard of it.  Another first 
app I get when I get my iPad.  Heard a guy using on Leo LePorte the other day 
and he sounded really good.  This could save me a boatload of money.


On May 29, 2010, at 6:20 PM, louie wrote:

> Hi all,
> Whistle phone is very cool. You can make computer to land lines calls for 
> free.
> The web site is:
> http://whistlephone.com/
> You get a phone number so people can call you from there cell or land line.
> The first window that comes up is completely unaccessible. This is where you 
> type in the number that you want to call. Fortunately if you copy a number to 
> the clip board when you bring up the app just paste and press enter and it 
> will dial your number.
> You can also use your address book to make calls.
> Enjoy.
> 
> louie
> louiem...@wavecable.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> 

Egun On, Lagunak! (Basque for G'day, Mates)
Pete Nalda
http://www.myspace.com/musikonalda
http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda




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RE: Best App for Streaming Sirius?

[Bryan Smart]

You probably need to press buttons on the flash player to control it. Flash is 
inaccessible, so VoiceOver can't see those. 


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Al Puzzuoli
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 7:05 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Best App for Streaming Sirius?

Then what about the Sirius web player itself? If it's supposed to work, I'm not 
sure what I'm missing. I've installed flash, as well as Flip4Mac, but I can't 
get it to actually play any streams.
 

--Al

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John J Herzog
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 1:24 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Best App for Streaming Sirius?

Albert,
Keep in mind that starplayr is no longer being updated. This means that, while 
you can stream some of sirius's channels, you do not have access to their 
online only content, which was added after starplayr's developers moved on to 
other things. This also applies to channels updated in recent months. Too bad, 
as I agree that starplayr was a useful app. I haven't found anything to take 
its place either. 

John 


On May 31, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Alfred Puzzuoli wrote:

> First off, I just wanted to say hello and introduce myself to everyone 
> on
the list. I may know many of you from my time on other lists in the past, and I 
look forward to meeting those with whom I have not yet become acquainted.
> 
> As a new user, I of course have a ton of questions, but One in 
> particular
I've been wrestling with is the best way to stream Sirius. According to the 
help on Sirius.com, the web player is supposed to work. I've installed 
Flip4Mac, but when I try to launch a stream, I never get any audio.  The best 
solution I've found so far is an app called Starplyr.
. If The VO cursor and mouse cursor are set to follow each other, I can 
navigate through the list of channels, and then double click on one to start 
it.  The app works, but it isn't perfect, as there are various unlabeled 
controls, but it is relatively usable.  There also doesn't seem to be any way 
to directly enter a channel number. So, if I'm on channel 1, and want to go to 
channel 100, that means down arrowing a whole bunch of times.  
> 
> has anyone else had experience with this app, or are there other
alternatives I should consider?
> Thanks,
> 
> --Al
> 
> --
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RE: Snow Leopard dvd

[Bryan Smart]

Chris,

I didn't know that you were using the install DVD that came with a computer.

The OS X install DVDs that you get with a Mac will only install OS X on that 
specific model of Mac. If you want the full version, that can install on any 
Mac, you must go out and buy the retail version of OS X. That's why the disk 
from your Mini didn't work, but your retail disk does work.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Chris Snyder
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 2:30 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Snow Leopard dvd

Hi all,

I put Leopard back on the laptop, and downloaded the firmware update as well as 
the upgrade to 10.5.8. I then tried the Snow leopard disc from my Mini, but I 
received the same message. So I went out and got the retail Snow Leopard disc, 
and it installed with no issue. The laptop is now working very well with one 
weird exception. Whenever I press shift-vo-space to do a mouse click, it brings 
up the menu bar. It is quite odd. Anyway, thanks for the help on the Snow 
Leopard issue. It feels much better to have it on the laptop. Since I primarily 
use quick nav, not having it was quite annoying. I think the differences 
between Leopard Voiceover and Snow Voiceover are extraordinary.

Friendly,
Chris

On May 28, 2010, at 3:50 PM, Cameron wrote:

> Hi.  no problem.  Keep us up to date on your issue.
> 
> Cameron.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Snyder
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 6:08 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Snow Leopard dvd
> 
> Hi Cameron,
> I believe you're probably right given the age of the computer. The 
> list of computers that needed firmware upgrades includes macbooks from 
> the time that one was manufactured. That's going to be the next thing 
> I try. Thanks very much for that information!
> 
> Friendly,
> Chris
> 
> On May 28, 2010, at 2:38 PM, Cameron wrote:
> 
>> Hi.  again, I'd say check the firmware on the mac book to rule that 
>> out as
> a
>> cause.
>> 
>> And you have installed sl with this disk on your other machine with 
>> no issues?
>> 
>> Cameron.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Snyder
>> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 5:31 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Snow Leopard dvd
>> 
>> Hi Cameron and Sarah,
>> Well, the people at the genius bar at my local Apple store, and the 
>> tech support people seemed to think that the disc should work as 
>> well. There
> was
>> something weird going on though. I can boot from the disc and choose
> English
>> as the language. When I click continue though, it comes up with a 
>> dialog that has a critical alert, and it says: "O S X can't be 
>> installed on this computer." Then there are options to restart or restore 
>> from backup.
>> 
>> The first thing I tried was to upgrade Leopard 10.5.7 to 10.5.8. 
>> Oddly enough, the computer wouldn't allow me to make that upgrade. It 
>> said that the upgrade couldn't be installed on this computer. There 
>> was plenty of
> room
>> on the drive, the processor is a 2.2GHZ Intel core Duo, and there was 
>> a
> gig
>> of ram. So the techs suggested that I format the drive and do a fresh 
>> Snow Leopard install. Well, through tricking the disc into thinking I 
>> was going to restore from backup, I managed to access the disc 
>> utility, then I did a format of the 120GB main hard drive. When that 
>> was done, I tried again to install Snow Leopard, but I got the same error.
>> It really is puzzling.
>> 
>> Friendly,
>> Chris
>> 
>> On May 28, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>> 
>>> That's what I'm thinking. you can take that install disk and install 
>>> it
> on
>> to any mac. so dunno why you are getting th eissue. Are you able to
> remember
>> the exact error message?
>>> 
>>> Take care.
>>> 
>>> S
>>> On May 28, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Cameron wrote:
>>> 
 Hi.  Hmmm.  my understanding is that OS X is OS x, is OS x, except 
 for
>> the
 server edition.  
 
 Because it's a mac book, could this be some sort of firmware issue?
 
 Cameron.
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Snyder
 Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 5:05 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Snow Leopard dvd
 
 Hi guys,
 I'm hoping someone here can confirm my experience so that I know if 
 I've made the correct conclusion. I got my paws on a laptop with 
 Leopard on
>> it.
 It meets all of the system requirements for Snow leopard, but when 
 I put
>> the
 Snow Leopard disc that I got with my Mac Mini in to try to put it 
 on the lapto

RE: hard drives in macbook pro.

[Bryan Smart]

However, taking the MacBook apart to put in the drive will be a frustrating 
experience. You've never seen screws that tiny, or that strip that easily. I 
upgraded my memory to 8GB, and will never again open my MacBook if I can help 
it.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ben Mustill-Rose
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 8:18 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: hard drives in macbook pro.

It will be a normal sata ii 5400 rpm drive. There not designed exclusively for 
the mbp's, so you can go onto a pc components website and buy a normal & cheep 
7200 drive.

On 03/06/2010, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
> Hi kimberly,
>
> look under apple in the menu bar.  Go into about this Mac.
>
> hth
> On Jun 2, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Kimberly thurman wrote:
>
>> I do know the ram is DDR3, but I would be interested in knowing what 
>> type hard drive is in the MBP as well.  Also, where do I go to find 
>> out my system information, i.e. hard drive capacity, amount of ram, 
>> etc.  TIA Kim On Jun 2, 2010, at 6:13 PM, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote:
>>
>>> Evening all,
>>>
>>> I'm thinking of upgrading both the memory and the HD in my MBP.  
>>> Anyone know what type of drive is inside these things?  I want to 
>>> get a bigger 7200 RPM disk and replace the one it came with.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Dónal
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
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RE: Can you set application specific settings with Voice Over

[Bryan Smart]

No. This isn't possible.

You can save and load VoiceOver settings, though. Look in the File menu of the 
VoiceOver utility. I have different settings that I use when programming, for 
example.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Alfredo
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 11:43 PM
To: MacVisionaries
Subject: Can you set application specific settings with Voice Over

Hello all, I was reading the online Voice over tutorial from apple and and 
kinda of questioning some aspects of the screen reader, with the focus being 
excessive keyboard combinations as well as having to arrow several times to 
reach some palces.  But hey, it is a learning experience, and I like 
challenges.  My question is about the verbosity settings.  Can you apply 
verbosity settings on a per application basis?  For example I want to have my 
TextEdit application have full attribute verbose, while I do not care if there 
is bold or italize text on an article I am reading online.  I currently just 
have the same verbose level in all my applications, although I know they can be 
customize for each application.

PS
I have a brand new copy, unopened, latest version of the ViewPlus, 
AudioGraphing Calculatorsoftware , for sale, its 300 US dollars at their 
website.  I am selling mine for 250.  If anyone is interested email me.  I live 
in san Diego, California, USA.
Alfredo

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RE: hard drives in macbook pro.

[Bryan Smart]

Ben, I'd normally agree with you. I'm no newbie to laptop maintenance. I've 
been upgrading drives and memory for years. I've replaced screens and swapped 
out motherboards. I've modded netbooks with cellular data adaptors, and 
regularly remove the screens for the headless netbook approach.

Give the MacBook Pro a try for yourself, but, in my experience, those are some 
of the absolute smallest screws that I've seen on any equipment. You need an 
eyeglasses driver kit to turn them. The official size is 000, but 000s don't 
quite fit. The heads are less than an 8th of an inch across, and the shafts 
are, unbelievably, shorter than the heads are wide. Beyond that, on most of the 
MBPs, you still need a Torx T6 driver to remove the hard drive bracket. Why on 
earth would Apple still use a security screw? You're supposed to be able to 
replace the drive. Why not use a standard screw?

Cara, I have a mid 2009 MBP. Unless I'm mistaken, your 2007 model doesn't use 
the aluminum unibody design. The older models, being plastic, require long 
screws to help hold everything together. The screws in the lower plate of the 
unibody MBP don't have anything to do with stability. They simply hold the 
access plate in place. Since the screws won't be subject to structural stress 
from the case flexing, and since the aluminum holes are harder to strip, Apple 
probably doesn't see the point in using long screws any longer.

I'll have to tell you, when taking the screws out, the heads are so small, 
that, even with the correctly sized driver, it was extremely hard to turn the 
screw without the driver jumping out of the head. I worked very slowly, but I 
was really scared that some of the screws would strip. On screws that small, it 
is extremely easy to do. I had horrible visions of having to drill a screw out 
of the aluminum case. They're so small, I don't even think that would work. 
Even if I were to drill with an extremely skinny bit, I doubt I could get 
enough tork to remove the screw's remains. I'm certain that damage like that 
wouldn't be covered under warranty.

Apple acts as if the memory and drive are user serviceable, but the design of 
the panel's screws is just begging for something bad to happen. Even if they 
made them just a tad longer (like another 8th of an inch), they'd be 
manageable. Being so short, they will flip over in the hole, when you try to 
put them back in.

I haven't opened a 2010 MBP. Maybe Apple improved the screws and access panel. 
Maybe this is just how things must be in order to have a thin MBP.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ben Mustill-Rose
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 7:58 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: hard drives in macbook pro.

I think it depends on what your comparing it to.

Obviously, taking a desktop apart is probably going to be easier than a laptop, 
but I find that in situations like this, practice really does make perfect. 3 
years ago, i was limited to upgrading memory on laptops, but now I can do 
complete tairdowns and motherboard replacements.

What I'm trying to say is if you find laptops hard, just keep at it and you'll 
get better lol.

On 04/06/2010, Cara Quinn  wrote:
>   Wow, I've had the opposite experience! lol! go figure!
>
>   I've had one of mine (a 2007 white) apart several times and have had 
> no issues with stripping screws or such.
>
>   Which model is yours, by chance?.
>
> Smiles,
>
> Cara :)
> ---
> View my Online Portfolio at:
>
> http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn
>
> Follow me on Twitter!
>
> https://twitter.com/ModelCara
>
> On Jun 3, 2010, at 8:47 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:
>
> However, taking the MacBook apart to put in the drive will be a 
> frustrating experience. You've never seen screws that tiny, or that 
> strip that easily. I upgraded my memory to 8GB, and will never again 
> open my MacBook if I can help it.
>
> Bryan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Mustill-Rose
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 8:18 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: hard drives in macbook pro.
>
> It will be a normal sata ii 5400 rpm drive. There not designed 
> exclusively for the mbp's, so you can go onto a pc components website 
> and buy a normal & cheep 7200 drive.
>
> On 03/06/2010, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
>> Hi kimberly,
>>
>> look under apple in the menu bar.  Go into about this Mac.
>>
>> hth
>> On Jun 2, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Kimberly thurman wrote:
>>
>>> I do know the ram is DDR3, but I would be interested in knowin

RE: Programmers Editor

[Bryan Smart]

Xcode. It's completely accessible.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Doug Lawlor
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 1:22 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Programmers Editor

Hi Bryan,
What editor do you use for writing code on the Mac? 

Thanks, 

Doug

On 2010-06-04, at 2:27 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:

> No. This isn't possible.
> 
> You can save and load VoiceOver settings, though. Look in the File menu of 
> the VoiceOver utility. I have different settings that I use when programming, 
> for example.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alfredo
> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 11:43 PM
> To: MacVisionaries
> Subject: Can you set application specific settings with Voice Over
> 
> Hello all, I was reading the online Voice over tutorial from apple and and 
> kinda of questioning some aspects of the screen reader, with the focus being 
> excessive keyboard combinations as well as having to arrow several times to 
> reach some palces.  But hey, it is a learning experience, and I like 
> challenges.  My question is about the verbosity settings.  Can you apply 
> verbosity settings on a per application basis?  For example I want to have my 
> TextEdit application have full attribute verbose, while I do not care if 
> there is bold or italize text on an article I am reading online.  I currently 
> just have the same verbose level in all my applications, although I know they 
> can be customize for each application.
> 
> PS
> I have a brand new copy, unopened, latest version of the ViewPlus, 
> AudioGraphing Calculatorsoftware , for sale, its 300 US dollars at their 
> website.  I am selling mine for 250.  If anyone is interested email me.  I 
> live in san Diego, California, USA.
> Alfredo
> 
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
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RE: [bcab] End of Freedom?

[Bryan Smart]

Window Eyes will get the Jaws refugees. They are the only other professional 
screen reader for Windows. System Access, NVDA, and friends are not 
professional. I know that lots of people that spend most of their time in a web 
browser and chatting with friends on IM will disagree, but professionals need 
advanced support for Excel, support for Word that goes beyond just reading raw 
text, etc.

And, actually, Window Eyes will be in the same boat in only a year or two. You 
might not like high prices for pro level Windows screen readers, but that's 
what it takes on Windows to make something pro. Windows screen reading is a 
constant battle to keep supporting programs from version to version, as little 
changes in the program break your screen reader's previously great support. The 
screen reader companies make a lot of money off an initial sell, but, once 
practically everyone that can get a screen reader, has a screen reader, the 
market is saturated, and the only money that comes in is through upgrade fees. 
That just is barely enough money to keep going.

As much money as they'd been losing, FS had given up on support for any 
professional apps, outside of Microsoft Office, for the last few years, and 
supporting that suite of programs as their interfaces are completely overhauled 
each version became a all-consuming effort. If they wanted to do more than 
Office, they'd need to charge more money. The cheap-o and freebie screen 
readers aren't charging, but then they just don't support anything except 
leisure software.

Well, maybe GW Micro can hold things together for a few years with Window Eyes. 
If not, looks like blind people will be out of clarical jobs. Hope they all can 
move up to professional employment, or else they'll be moving down to SSI 
checks.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kaare Dehard
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:29 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [bcab] End of Freedom?

I feel as sorry for the stupid or missinformed employers who will force the job 
losses. There are other windows based screen readers out there, some with 
plenty of scripting capabilities, such as window-eyes whos scripting fits more 
in to the modern age. We can't expect them all to addopt macs:) but we can 
pitty them their stupidity if they don't see that the wold wasn't created in 6 
days for the blind by freedom:).
On 2010-06-05, at 2:21 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

> I agree with you.
> Donna
> On Jun 5, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote:
> 
>> I feel sorry for the people who will loose their jobs.
>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Courtney Curran wrote:
>> 
>>> I certainly agree. Yay, yay, no more overpriced, unfair JAWS.
>>> Courtney
>>> 
>>> On 05/06/2010, at 1:19 in the Afternoon, Olivia Norman wrote:
>>> 
 YAY! YAY! YAY! Goodbye Jaws! :) :) :) :) "Innovation distinguishes 
 between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs
 
 On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
 
> Off topic, but I feel everyone will be interested especially those people 
> who run Fusion on their Macs.
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: "Ibrahim Gucukoglu" 
>> Date: June 5, 2010 9:36:33 AM GMT+01:00
>> To: "Kawal Gucukoglu" 
>> Subject: Fw: [bcab] End of Freedom?
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Colin r. Howard" 
>> 
>> To: ; ; 
>> ; ; 
>> 
>> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:30 AM
>> Subject: [bcab] End of Freedom?
>> 
>> 
>>> Greetings,
>>> 
>>> I am posting the main text from a thread just seen on the Blind 
>>> Audio List which I am surprised not to have seen on the BCAB or 
>>> AccessUK groups.
>>> 
>>> Ought we to give much credence to this?
>>> 
>>> I, for one, would welcome any comments from Sight and Sound.
>>> 
>>> From: "Otto Zamora" 
>>> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:44:14 -0400
>>> 
>>> Morning,
>>> 
>>> In an advocate meeting yesterday, the subject came up reference 
>>> Freedom Scientific, the company that among other things sports JFw.
>>> Because the company is in the state of Florida, it came up on  a 
>>> flag by an analyst.
>>> Seems this company is having bad money troubles, not surprising 
>>> given the economy, but talk is that they are now looking to sell 
>>> off some of their division, mainly their JFW area.
>>> I am not sure who if anyone will buy this division, considering 
>>> that there is an entity now selling a fully integrated package for only 
>>> $700.
>>> Besides a comprehensive screen reader, if the user chooses to 
>>> get the package, there is a browser, along with a customed and 
>>> fully accessible web sites, word processing, and E mail.
>>> all of this can apparently be accessed either on line, or as 
>>> individual program.
>>> ad

RE: Applescript for automatically dragging a loop to the timeline

[Bryan Smart]

Without commenting on the specific situation of copying loops in to GarageBand, 
just want to point out that learning AppleScript won't teach you anything about 
Objective-C. They're different, in practically every way. Java is more like 
Objective-C. Even C#.net is more like Objective-C.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Yuma Antoine Decaux
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 5:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Applescript for automatically dragging a loop to the timeline

No you are not stupid, and just as you are entitled to your opinion, i am 
entitled to try and find a solution. It's only advantageous to me as it allows 
me to learn the intricacies of not only the garage band workflow but also of 
applescript, which itself will lead me to figure a mental map on objective c.

I'm a curious person by nature and like to find things out, a detective work of 
some sorts. And this brings me intuition and creativity.


And if somehow it can help others, then perfect. I don't like sitting my arse 
just waiting for a fix. I like fixing things or finding ways to do things when 
i buy a product So that it does what i want it to do. 

Anyway i found some more solutions out of this so its all good

Cheers

Yuma DX(r)

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RE: Considering purchasing an iPad, but ...

[Bryan Smart]

Yeh. I wouldn't get an iPad for just books, when other devices will do that.
 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kaare Dehard
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 2:19 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Considering purchasing an iPad, but ...

Hi Mike, I have sort have experimented with an ipad, and I was able to read the 
ebooks on there. Also any epub format is able to be imported to the ipad. 

Also acording to rumor, os 4 is supposed to offer ibooks for iphone/ipod 
touch... Hopefully after wwdc, this will be clarified.
On 2010-06-06, at 1:20 PM, Michael Busboom wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> As the subject implies, I am considering purchasing an iPad, primarily 
> because I want to read E-books.  Here are some questions I have:
> 
> 1.  Can one use the iPad in conjunction with Voice Over to read E-books 
> purchased through the iTunes store?  If there are limitations, what are they?
> 
> 2.  Can E-books purchased from other sources such as Amazon be read on the 
> iPad with VO?
> 
> 3.  Since I am studying, I am wondering what percentage of university-level 
> textbooks are available in a form that can be read on the iPad.
> 
> 4.  Lastly, I have a Mac Book which I love.  Is there software out there that 
> would allow me to read textbooks on my Mac Book, thereby perhaps 
> circumventing the need to purchase the iPad?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
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RE: Programmers Editor

[Bryan Smart]

I haven't figured out a way to start it, but VoiceOver seems to be included 
with the simulator.

Won't do you much good, though. No way to design your user interface for the 
iPhone, unless you create all of the user interface objects by hand in code. 
Interface Builder, where you'd normally make the interface, isn't accessible, 
and my RenaissanceX project can only make desktop interfaces right now. I'd 
hoped to port it to iPhone OS fairly quick, but that's taking more work than 
I'd thought. Apple doesn't exactly use Cocoa on the iPhone. Cocoa Touch might 
sound like a similar API, but it is quite different.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey Jr.
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 2:49 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Programmers Editor

how about the simulator? is it accessible yet?  I really want to make an iphone 
web ap for my business, but the last time i checked, the software for creating 
those wasn't accessible yet.  any news? thanks, Max On Jun 4, 2010, at 12:24 
AM, Bryan Smart wrote:

> Xcode. It's completely accessible.
>
> Bryan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> ] On Behalf Of Doug Lawlor
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 1:22 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Programmers Editor
>
> Hi Bryan,
> What editor do you use for writing code on the Mac?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug
>
> On 2010-06-04, at 2:27 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:
>
>> No. This isn't possible.
>>
>> You can save and load VoiceOver settings, though. Look in the File 
>> menu of the VoiceOver utility. I have different settings that I use 
>> when programming, for example.
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alfredo
>> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 11:43 PM
>> To: MacVisionaries
>> Subject: Can you set application specific settings with Voice Over
>>
>> Hello all, I was reading the online Voice over tutorial from apple 
>> and and kinda of questioning some aspects of the screen reader, with 
>> the focus being excessive keyboard combinations as well as having to 
>> arrow several times to reach some palces.  But hey, it is a learning 
>> experience, and I like challenges.  My question is about the 
>> verbosity settings.  Can you apply verbosity settings on a per 
>> application basis?  For example I want to have my TextEdit 
>> application have full attribute verbose, while I do not care if there 
>> is bold or italize text on an article I am reading online.  I 
>> currently just have the same verbose level in all my applications, 
>> although I know they can be customize for each application.
>>
>> PS
>> I have a brand new copy, unopened, latest version of the ViewPlus, 
>> AudioGraphing Calculatorsoftware , for sale, its 300 US dollars at 
>> their website.  I am selling mine for 250.  If anyone is interested 
>> email me.  I live in san Diego, California, USA.
>> Alfredo
>>
>> --
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RE: Programmers Editor

[Bryan Smart]

You can set VoiceOver keys to trigger AppleScript scripts. AppleScripts can 
send commands to applications, including VoiceOver. So, working that way, you 
can make a VoiceOver key, that triggers a script, that tells VoiceOver to do 
something.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Alfredo
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 3:07 AM
To: MacVisionaries
Subject: Re: Programmers Editor

I assume you can have different Voice Over settings on your hard drive and then 
load them whenever you want right?  Thanks for the info.
Also can you script hotkey combinations, like for example, in jaws I have a 
small function that calls the search feature in jaws, then other scripts call 
this function, with a combination of a keystroke, and then performs a search on 
a website and presses that link/button.
For example, I have ti so that when I press Control, Shift, I, assuming I an on 
my gmail page on internet explorer, it will search for the word "inbox" and 
then press it, if it does not find that word, then it will find "refresh" and 
then click that.  This way I can refresh my inbox really fast, whenever I want, 
regardless of what window I am in Gmail.  I know you can just press the f5 key, 
but I do not know if this will take my to the main page of my GMail account, 
plus I have to reach over for f5.  Anyway, can you do something like this with 
Scripting provided by the Mac OS for Voice over?
Thanks

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RE: Applescript for automatically dragging a loop to the timeline

[Bryan Smart]

OK. I wish you luck with it. For me, though, it would be confusing. The syntax 
is different. The APIs are different. I mean, Python is object oriented, too, 
but looks nothing like an Objective-C program. As long as it works for you, 
though.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Yuma Antoine Decaux
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 12:39 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Applescript for automatically dragging a loop to the timeline

Applescript is object oriented just as objective c is.

This is how i could progress, from simple English understanding the concept of 
countenance and in parallel explore objective c.

So yes, they are actually related to what i do, since i work on automating 
things at my work place and learn programming in objective C for my iphone dev 
cell.

Cheers

Yuma DX(r)



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RE: mail rules on iphone

[Bryan Smart]

No, it doesn't. And Mobile Me doesn't store your rules and process them 
server-side. If you don't have a Mac, somewhere, running, with Mail open, then 
none of your rules are applied, , and when you view your inbox on the iPhone, 
all of your mail will be left there, instead of being placed in to folders. 
It's really weak. Just about every major mail provider supports server-side 
rules, except for Mobile Me.

Bryan 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 8:53 PM
To: mac vissionaries vissionaries
Subject: mail rules on iphone



Hellodoes iphone mail also use the rules you create with apple mail?

Just curious.

S

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RE: Programmers Editor

[Bryan Smart]

Hi.

The iPhone OS, now just called iOS, uses a windowing toolkit that is based on 
Cocoa, but isn't the same. The class names are different, and parts of the 
classes themselves are different. Beyond that, the layout of the interfaces of 
an iOS application isn't very much like a desktop application. So, for 
RenaissanceX to work on Cocoa Touch, the tag engine and auto-layout engine will 
need to be reworked.

It isn't that I don't believe that something like RenaissanceX can be created 
for iOS. I originally thought that RenaissanceX could support either Cocoa or 
Cocoa Touch from the same framework. However, I now think that a completely 
separate system will be required. That's too bad. RenaissanceX is focused at 
blind devs on the Mac, but it stems from Renaissance, a larger cross-platform 
effort to abstractly describe interfaces for programs so that they can be run 
on all OpenStep type operating systems. Because of that, RenaissanceX can pool 
its development with people that are interested in the larger Renaissance 
project. Forking will create another project that it will be all on me to 
maintain. Renaissance gets little development help, even given its wide 
community. So far, only one other person has been able to assist me with 
RenaissanceX development, and that was by contributing sample projects. People 
just don't have much time to give to free projects. If I fork, I believe that 
I'll be all by myself when it comes to the actual programming.

Further, Apple might not even allow RenaissanceX on iOS. The developer 
agreement in iOS 4 has been revised in such a way that might prohibit it. I 
think that the changes are primarily targeted at keeping people from using 
Flash cross-compiling tools, but it still applies to what we'd like to do. In 
short, the new section 3.31 says that applications aren't allowed to call Cocoa 
Touch APIs indirectly (through a framework or translation layer). RenaissanceX 
works by sub-classing Cocoa objects in order to add the automatic layout 
behavior. I don't think that this sort of issue is what Apple has in mind, but 
I can't tell you how profoundly angry and frustrated I'll feel if I port 
RenaissanceX, and Apple starts rejecting apps for using it. There are only 3 
ways to make a user interface on iOS: use Interface Builder (inaccessible), do 
it programmatically (incredibly slow), or use a tool to build the UI 
programmatically through macro type functions (RenaissanceX). If they won't 
allow RenaissanceX, then blind devs will need to create all UIs by hand. That 
is practically impossible without a profound amount of effort, and vision, 
since VoiceOver can't tell you if your programmatically generated user 
interface objects overlap other controls, are obscured, etc.

I doubt that I can get an official waver for RenaissanceX. So, I'll just have 
to put in the time, and accept that their is a high likelihood that all of the 
work will be for nothing. Of course, Apple could solve this problem by making 
an accessible way for blind people to use their official interface building 
tools. The word on that, though, is no interest, not at this time, etc. It's 
disappointing. I suppose that I'll have to try, though.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Dónal Fitzpatrick
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Programmers Editor

Hi Brian,
What issues are you having with the port to Iphone OS?  I'm also wondering 
whether it might be better to hold off on a port now till after the release of 
the SDK for version 4.0?  That's going to change our coding landscape rather 
considerably methinks.  However, I'd love to get involved and help with any 
kind of port to the iPHone os.  I like RenaissanceX rather a lot.  Well done on 
a great effort.

Dónal
On 7 Jun 2010, at 05:47, Bryan Smart wrote:

> I haven't figured out a way to start it, but VoiceOver seems to be included 
> with the simulator.
> 
> Won't do you much good, though. No way to design your user interface for the 
> iPhone, unless you create all of the user interface objects by hand in code. 
> Interface Builder, where you'd normally make the interface, isn't accessible, 
> and my RenaissanceX project can only make desktop interfaces right now. I'd 
> hoped to port it to iPhone OS fairly quick, but that's taking more work than 
> I'd thought. Apple doesn't exactly use Cocoa on the iPhone. Cocoa Touch might 
> sound like a similar API, but it is quite different.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey Jr.
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 2:49 AM
> To: macvisionaries@g

RE: a sign of things to come?

[Bryan Smart]

Unfortunately, I saw a blog post from a Verizon exec saying that they were also 
going to stop their unlimited data plan when they introduce their LTE network 
later this year.

I think that unlimited data is just over. period.

Bryan


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Chris Snyder
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 1:51 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: a sign of things to come?

Indeed. I might have purchased a new iPhone 4g, but if I have to go with AT&T 
and the new cap they put on data usage, I think I'll wait until the phone is 
offered to some other carrier.

Friendly,
Chris

On Jun 9, 2010, at 10:37 AM, Michael Thurman wrote:

> now if we can get at and t to not screw us on data  30 was bad enough now we 
> get to pay extra if we actually  USE our phones too? gives me pause if i even 
> want an I phone now is 2 gig worth anything since i want the phone for skype 
> echolink navigation and streaming audio?
> On Jun 8, 2010, at 12:10 PM, william lomas wrote:
> 
>>  hi i wonder what languages we get then in the OS for mac?
>> 
>> iPhone 4 supports more than 30 Bluetooth wireless braille displays right out 
>> of the box. Just pair one and start using it to navigate your iPhone with 
>> VoiceOver - no additional software needed. In addition, iPhone includes 
>> braille tables for more than 25 international languages.
>> 
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RE: ibooks

[Bryan Smart]

Cause dropping an iPad, one side of which is entirely made of glass, isn't 
risky at all. *smile* I bet that a MacBook would survive a drop better than an 
iPad.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Pete Nalda
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 1:11 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: ibooks

I think also that would be cool.  But I'm convinced I'll be using my iPad more 
than my Macbook Pro, once I get it, as it's lighter and I get to leave my 
macbook pro in one safe place and not run the risk of dropping it.  Still I 
think it would be nice to have iBook access on other devices besides just 
iDevices.

On Jun 9, 2010, at 1:48 AM, william lomas wrote:

>   hi all,
> 
> 
> I would have thought IBooks would also be on the macintosh and windows 
> platforms, as then one could read a book on their laptop or desktop 
> and keep reading on the move with their portable device
> 
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Egun On, Lagunak! (Basque for G'day, Mates)
Pete Nalda
http://www.myspace.com/musikonalda
http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda




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RE: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out

[Bryan Smart]

Nope. 8.0.4 is the version with accessibility. 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Pete Nalda
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 3:35 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out

So is this Protools 8.0.4 accessible?  I thought Protools accessibility wasn't 
coming until Version 9.

On Jun 11, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Cameron wrote:

> Hi.  basicly to use pro tools, you need either a piece of avid hardware.
> Either digidesign or m audio.  (Digidesign is now avid although the 
> stock currently being sold by dealers still has the digidesign brand 
> name.)
> 
> You can buy a USB interface, like the m box mini, m box 2, m audio 
> fast track, or, for better performance, a firewire interface, like the 
> m box pro,
> 003 rack, eleven rack, m audio firewire solo, m audio pro fire 26, 
> etc, or, for the most flexibility and hands on control at this level, 
> a control surface/audio/midi interface combo like the digi 003 or the 
> m audio project mix.
> 
> Some of the Mackie onyx mixers have a pro tools plug in for their 
> firewire interface cards as well...  however, keep in mind that these 
> are mixers, not control surfaces.
> 
> If you buy an m audio interface, you'll want to buy a copy of pro 
> tools m powered.  If you buy any of the digi interfaces, you'll get a 
> copy of pro tools le included.
> 
> For specs, check the avid site, or, sites like sweetwater, musicians 
> friend, etc.
> 
> Cameron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M. Taylor
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 11:47 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I realize this thread may get off-topic so please feel free to send 
> replies off-list.
> 
> I'm interested in purchasing ProTools, assuming it's accessible.  
> However, I don't understand about the hardware that has been mentioned on 
> this thread.
> 
> 
> I would appreciate an short explanation of what kind and why special 
> hardware is required such as this box that Sara mentioned.
> 
> Thank you all in advance,
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get to know yourself as you get to know me on The Secret Life of Mark 
> Marcus Live Talk Show http://candleshore.com/secrets
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 1:21 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out
> 
> a simple  mbox should doo. I read about them and they seem sweet!
> 
> Take care.
> 
> S
> On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:56 PM, Michael Huckabay wrote:
> 
>> I have pro tools software I just need to find the hard ware. So ya.
>> On 2010-06-11, at 12:53 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>> 
>>> Nice! I'll be saving up for a simple version of said software and
> hardware. My board is on its way out and it sucks to record or try to 
> and you hear a 120hz humb.
>>> 
>>> lol!
>>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 8:56 PM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
>>> 
 For what it's worth, Pro Tools version 8.0.4 is finally out. Stay 
 tuned
> for an announcement about an email list focusing on Pro Tools 
> accessibility with VoiceOver.
 
 Slau
 
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>>> 
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RE: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out

[Bryan Smart]

Hi Courtney.

The three main editions of Pro Tools 8.04: MPowered, LE, and HD, all share the 
accessibility features. The version that you got is a taster version called Pro 
Tools Essentials. No one knows what is going to happen with the accessibility 
in those light/taster versions.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Courtney Curran
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out

Hi,
I bought Protools from Best Buy a few weeks ago on a CD, a mic came with it. Am 
I entitled to a free upgrade, I need protools for my class, and I've had to 
have sighted help. I hope I'm entitled to a free or cheaper upgrade.
Courtney
On Jun 11, 2010, at 1:56 AM, Michael Huckabay wrote:

> I have pro tools software I just need to find the hard ware. So ya.
> On 2010-06-11, at 12:53 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> 
>> Nice! I'll be saving up for a simple version of said software and hardware. 
>> My board is on its way out and it sucks to record or try to and you hear a 
>> 120hz humb.
>> 
>> lol!
>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 8:56 PM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
>> 
>>> For what it's worth, Pro Tools version 8.0.4 is finally out. Stay tuned for 
>>> an announcement about an email list focusing on Pro Tools accessibility 
>>> with VoiceOver.
>>> 
>>> Slau
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
> --
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RE: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out

[Bryan Smart]

There is now a list for people that just want to discuss Pro Tools from an 
accessibility perspective. It's hosted on the Google Group PTAccess.

To directly subscribe, send an empty message to:
ptaccess+subscr...@googlegroups.com

The group's web page is here:
http://www.googlegroups.com/group/ptaccess

Presently, we only know of the 8.04 update for Pro Tools LE being live on 
Avid's site. MPowered and HD will soon follow, but Avid is just releasing the 
update, so the others might take a few hours. This update is for many other 
improvements besides just accessibility, so Avid is quite busy with getting it 
out there. Please be patient.

Bryan

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RE: a sign of things to come?

[Bryan Smart]

Can't find it, but this one should do:

Verizon Likely to Follow ATT's Move to End Unlimited Data Pricing
http://www.channelinsider.com/c/a/Messaging-and-Collaboration/Verizon-Likely-to-Follow-ATTs-Move-to-End-Unlimited-Data-Pricing-544452/
 

Probably, the only provider left with unlimited will be the ghetto data network 
of T-Mobile.

Basically, they gave out unlimited, and didn't realize how much data people 
would actually use streaming movies and such. When you go to some areas of 
cities where a lot of smartphone users are located, it is difficult to access 
anything, because the network is so clogged. I guess they should upgrade 
capacity, but they've decided that people want data so badly, they'll pay, and 
having people pay will both bring in more money, and force people to cut back 
on their data use at the same time. People will gripe and whine, but if you 
want to use a smartphone, you'll pay, or else have no Internet.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 4:20 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: a sign of things to come?

Is there a link you can provide to that blog post from the verison exec? 

thanks.
On Jun 10, 2010, at 11:26 PM, Michael Thurman wrote:

> if that is the case I hope all of the companies go under i am sick of 
> being screwed by money hungry big buisness they want us to get on their 
> netowrk  buy these expensive phones and data plans and then not USE them at 
> all  i wouldn't do buisness with verizon if they were the last carrier on 
> earth! everyone I know who has ever had them has been screwed On Jun 9, 2010, 
> at 4:16 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:
> 
>> Unfortunately, I saw a blog post from a Verizon exec saying that they were 
>> also going to stop their unlimited data plan when they introduce their LTE 
>> network later this year.
>> 
>> I think that unlimited data is just over. period.
>> 
>> Bryan
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Snyder
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 1:51 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: a sign of things to come?
>> 
>> Indeed. I might have purchased a new iPhone 4g, but if I have to go with 
>> AT&T and the new cap they put on data usage, I think I'll wait until the 
>> phone is offered to some other carrier.
>> 
>> Friendly,
>> Chris
>> 
>> On Jun 9, 2010, at 10:37 AM, Michael Thurman wrote:
>> 
>>> now if we can get at and t to not screw us on data  30 was bad enough now 
>>> we get to pay extra if we actually  USE our phones too? gives me pause if i 
>>> even want an I phone now is 2 gig worth anything since i want the phone for 
>>> skype echolink navigation and streaming audio?
>>> On Jun 8, 2010, at 12:10 PM, william lomas wrote:
>>> 
>>>>hi i wonder what languages we get then in the OS for mac?
>>>> 
>>>> iPhone 4 supports more than 30 Bluetooth wireless braille displays right 
>>>> out of the box. Just pair one and start using it to navigate your iPhone 
>>>> with VoiceOver - no additional software needed. In addition, iPhone 
>>>> includes braille tables for more than 25 international languages.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> For more options, visit this group at 
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at 
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> 
>> 
>> --
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> macvisionaries+un

RE: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out

[Bryan Smart]

Yes. Certain interfaces made by M-Audio will work.

Bryan 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Michael Huckabay
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 3:49 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out

Is someone able to just get a USB hardware interface for Pro tools if they all 
reddy own pro tools?
On 2010-06-11, at 2:36 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:

> Nope. 8.0.4 is the version with accessibility. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Nalda
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 3:35 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out
> 
> So is this Protools 8.0.4 accessible?  I thought Protools accessibility 
> wasn't coming until Version 9.
> 
> On Jun 11, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Cameron wrote:
> 
>> Hi.  basicly to use pro tools, you need either a piece of avid hardware.
>> Either digidesign or m audio.  (Digidesign is now avid although the 
>> stock currently being sold by dealers still has the digidesign brand
>> name.)
>> 
>> You can buy a USB interface, like the m box mini, m box 2, m audio 
>> fast track, or, for better performance, a firewire interface, like 
>> the m box pro,
>> 003 rack, eleven rack, m audio firewire solo, m audio pro fire 26, 
>> etc, or, for the most flexibility and hands on control at this level, 
>> a control surface/audio/midi interface combo like the digi 003 or the 
>> m audio project mix.
>> 
>> Some of the Mackie onyx mixers have a pro tools plug in for their 
>> firewire interface cards as well...  however, keep in mind that these 
>> are mixers, not control surfaces.
>> 
>> If you buy an m audio interface, you'll want to buy a copy of pro 
>> tools m powered.  If you buy any of the digi interfaces, you'll get a 
>> copy of pro tools le included.
>> 
>> For specs, check the avid site, or, sites like sweetwater, musicians 
>> friend, etc.
>> 
>> Cameron.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M. Taylor
>> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 11:47 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out
>> 
>> Hello All,
>> 
>> I realize this thread may get off-topic so please feel free to send 
>> replies off-list.
>> 
>> I'm interested in purchasing ProTools, assuming it's accessible.  
>> However, I don't understand about the hardware that has been mentioned on 
>> this thread.
>> 
>> 
>> I would appreciate an short explanation of what kind and why special 
>> hardware is required such as this box that Sara mentioned.
>> 
>> Thank you all in advance,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Get to know yourself as you get to know me on The Secret Life of Mark 
>> Marcus Live Talk Show http://candleshore.com/secrets
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
>> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 1:21 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out
>> 
>> a simple  mbox should doo. I read about them and they seem sweet!
>> 
>> Take care.
>> 
>> S
>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:56 PM, Michael Huckabay wrote:
>> 
>>> I have pro tools software I just need to find the hard ware. So ya.
>>> On 2010-06-11, at 12:53 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Nice! I'll be saving up for a simple version of said software and
>> hardware. My board is on its way out and it sucks to record or try to 
>> and you hear a 120hz humb.
>>>> 
>>>> lol!
>>>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 8:56 PM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> For what it's worth, Pro Tools version 8.0.4 is finally out. Stay 
>>>>> tuned
>> for an announcement about an email list focusing on Pro Tools 
>> accessibility with VoiceOver.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Slau
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To unsub

RE: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out

[Bryan Smart]

If you really have HD, then it will only run on a Mac Pro, and will require PCI 
or PCIE Accel cards and Avid/Digi outboard gear. You're looking at thousands of 
dollars. Should sell it and get MPowered or LE.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Michael Huckabay
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 4:18 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out

I own the HD version but didn't pay much for it so I probley could just by a 
package.
On 2010-06-11, at 3:11 PM, Cameron wrote:

> Hi.  do you own m powered or le?
> 
> If you own m powered, you can just buy an m audio interface.
> 
> As far as the digi interfaces, they all seem to be bundles, including 
> the upgrade packages.
> 
> I'd say try craigs list or e bay etc.
> 
> Cameron.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Huckabay
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 3:49 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out
> 
> Is someone able to just get a USB hardware interface for Pro tools if 
> they all reddy own pro tools?
> On 2010-06-11, at 2:36 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:
> 
>> Nope. 8.0.4 is the version with accessibility. 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Nalda
>> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 3:35 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out
>> 
>> So is this Protools 8.0.4 accessible?  I thought Protools 
>> accessibility
> wasn't coming until Version 9.
>> 
>> On Jun 11, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Cameron wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi.  basicly to use pro tools, you need either a piece of avid hardware.
>>> Either digidesign or m audio.  (Digidesign is now avid although the 
>>> stock currently being sold by dealers still has the digidesign brand
>>> name.)
>>> 
>>> You can buy a USB interface, like the m box mini, m box 2, m audio 
>>> fast track, or, for better performance, a firewire interface, like 
>>> the m box pro,
>>> 003 rack, eleven rack, m audio firewire solo, m audio pro fire 26, 
>>> etc, or, for the most flexibility and hands on control at this 
>>> level, a control surface/audio/midi interface combo like the digi 
>>> 003 or the m audio project mix.
>>> 
>>> Some of the Mackie onyx mixers have a pro tools plug in for their 
>>> firewire interface cards as well...  however, keep in mind that 
>>> these are mixers, not control surfaces.
>>> 
>>> If you buy an m audio interface, you'll want to buy a copy of pro 
>>> tools m powered.  If you buy any of the digi interfaces, you'll get 
>>> a copy of pro tools le included.
>>> 
>>> For specs, check the avid site, or, sites like sweetwater, musicians 
>>> friend, etc.
>>> 
>>> Cameron.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M. Taylor
>>> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 11:47 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out
>>> 
>>> Hello All,
>>> 
>>> I realize this thread may get off-topic so please feel free to send 
>>> replies off-list.
>>> 
>>> I'm interested in purchasing ProTools, assuming it's accessible.  
>>> However, I don't understand about the hardware that has been 
>>> mentioned on
> this thread.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I would appreciate an short explanation of what kind and why special 
>>> hardware is required such as this box that Sara mentioned.
>>> 
>>> Thank you all in advance,
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Get to know yourself as you get to know me on The Secret Life of 
>>> Mark Marcus Live Talk Show http://candleshore.com/secrets
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
>>> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 1:21 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out
>>> 
>>> a sim

RE: New list for Pro Tools discussion [was Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out]

[Bryan Smart]

Hi Esther.

I don't really see a problem with adding mail archive, except, why is it 
needed? Google Groups already show up on many search indexes, not the least of 
which is Google. Is there some other advantage?

I take your point about setting the list to not be public. I guess that it 
doesn't happen as much with traditional listservs because they aren't so easy 
to discover  automatically with a computer program. With closed lists, join 
requests must be manually approved, and I hate adding too much admin work. 
Anyway, I'll do this for ptaccess. Thanks again.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Esther
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 4:48 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: New list for Pro Tools discussion [was Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally 
out]

Hi Bryan,

Can you please set up the new list so that it is archived at the Mail Archive 
and searchable?  Read the FAQ for how to do it:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/faq.html#newlist>
It only took about 10 minutes of fiddling back and forth to do this  
for the vimacaudio list, with none of us knowing how this worked.   
Since then, there's an extra step, so read the document.  This will save people 
having to repeat and type in questions many times, as on the viphone list.

And please change the "anyone can join" status before you get spammed by people 
looking to find Google groups they can join and post to for advertising --- 
that's what happened when the macvisionaries list started up, and it's why the 
list is not just open.

Thanks,

Esther

On Jun 11, 2010, at 09:38, Bryan Smart wrote:

> There is now a list for people that just want to discuss Pro Tools 
> from an accessibility perspective. It's hosted on the Google Group 
> PTAccess.
>
> To directly subscribe, send an empty message to:
> ptaccess+subscr...@googlegroups.com
>
> The group's web page is here:
> http://www.googlegroups.com/group/ptaccess
>
> Presently, we only know of the 8.04 update for Pro Tools LE being live 
> on Avid's site. MPowered and HD will soon follow, but Avid is just 
> releasing the update, so the others might take a few hours.
> This update is for many other improvements besides just accessibility, 
> so Avid is quite busy with getting it out there.
> Please be patient.
>
> Bryan
>

--
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"MacVisionaries" group.
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RE: New list for Pro Tools discussion [was Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out]

[Bryan Smart]

OK. That does sound like it would be useful to many people. I'll add it. 

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Esther
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 5:14 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: New list for Pro Tools discussion [was Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is 
finally out]

Hi Bryan,

Searching the Mail Archive is really much easier than doing the Google Groups 
search. -- I can search what has been posted in the macvisionaries list faster 
than I can search mail on my own computer and get better results with less 
effort for a simple query than when I use a Google serach.  It supports Boolean 
arguments, wild cards, date, ranges, etc. I don't even have to use most of 
these to get a good result.  Even better, it supports access key command 
searches that let you read up and down the list by time or by thread.  These 
work for any browser, if you substitute the correct access key,  For Safari 
(with VoiceOver on), the access key is the Control key.  That also means that 
if I find a match I can read up or down the thread with Control-N (for next 
post) or Control-P (for previous post).  This cuts through a lot of extraneous 
material.  On high volume lists, I can also read the list directly through the 
mail archive site when I'm traveling or away from my computer.  The default 
mode is threaded, but I can switch to time ordered by using Control-I and then 
read through with Control-B (back to previous post by time) or Control-F 
(forward to next post by time).  To go back to threaded mode by contents I use 
Control-C. This is really very powerful, and I'd say that my most effective use 
of the macvisionaries archive dates from discovering that the list was archived 
at the Mail Archive and finding out about the search and wild card options.  
For example, I can find any of your posts by typing:
From:Bryan in front of my search terms.

HTH

Cheers,

Esther


Bryan Smart wrote:

> Hi Esther.
>
> I don't really see a problem with adding mail archive, except, why is 
> it needed? Google Groups already show up on many search indexes, not 
> the least of which is Google. Is there some other advantage?
>
> I take your point about setting the list to not be public. I guess 
> that it doesn't happen as much with traditional listservs because they 
> aren't so easy to discover  automatically with a computer program. 
> With closed lists, join requests must be manually approved, and I hate 
> adding too much admin work. Anyway, I'll do this for ptaccess. Thanks 
> again.
>
> Bryan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> ] On Behalf Of Esther
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 4:48 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: New list for Pro Tools discussion [was Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is 
> finally out]
>
> Hi Bryan,
>
> Can you please set up the new list so that it is archived at the Mail 
> Archive and searchable?  Read the FAQ for how to do it:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/faq.html#newlist>
> It only took about 10 minutes of fiddling back and forth to do this 
> for the vimacaudio list, with none of us knowing how this worked.
> Since then, there's an extra step, so read the document.  This will 
> save people having to repeat and type in questions many times, as on 
> the viphone list.
>
> And please change the "anyone can join" status before you get spammed 
> by people looking to find Google groups they can join and post to for 
> advertising --- that's what happened when the macvisionaries list 
> started up, and it's why the list is not just open.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Esther
>
> On Jun 11, 2010, at 09:38, Bryan Smart wrote:
>
>> There is now a list for people that just want to discuss Pro Tools 
>> from an accessibility perspective. It's hosted on the Google Group 
>> PTAccess.
>>
>> To directly subscribe, send an empty message to:
>> ptaccess+subscr...@googlegroups.com
>>
>> The group's web page is here:
>> http://www.googlegroups.com/group/ptaccess
>>
>> Presently, we only know of the 8.04 update for Pro Tools LE being 
>> live on Avid's site. MPowered and HD will soon follow, but Avid is 
>> just releasing the update, so the others might take a few hours.
>> This update is for many other improvements besides just 
>> accessibility, so Avid is quite busy with getting it out there.
>> Please be patient.
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>

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RE: New list for Pro Tools discussion [was Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is finally out]

[Bryan Smart]

I've added it. I won't post any further on this e-mail list about mail-archive, 
but please let me know off-list if you don't see PTAccess appear on 
mail-archive.com shortly.

Bryan
 
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Bryan Smart
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 5:46 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: New list for Pro Tools discussion [was Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is 
finally out]

OK. That does sound like it would be useful to many people. I'll add it. 

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Esther
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 5:14 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: New list for Pro Tools discussion [was Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is 
finally out]

Hi Bryan,

Searching the Mail Archive is really much easier than doing the Google Groups 
search. -- I can search what has been posted in the macvisionaries list faster 
than I can search mail on my own computer and get better results with less 
effort for a simple query than when I use a Google serach.  It supports Boolean 
arguments, wild cards, date, ranges, etc. I don't even have to use most of 
these to get a good result.  Even better, it supports access key command 
searches that let you read up and down the list by time or by thread.  These 
work for any browser, if you substitute the correct access key,  For Safari 
(with VoiceOver on), the access key is the Control key.  That also means that 
if I find a match I can read up or down the thread with Control-N (for next 
post) or Control-P (for previous post).  This cuts through a lot of extraneous 
material.  On high volume lists, I can also read the list directly through the 
mail archive site when I'm traveling or away from my computer.  The default 
mode is threaded, but I can switch to time ordered by using Control-I and then 
read through with Control-B (back to previous post by time) or Control-F 
(forward to next post by time).  To go back to threaded mode by contents I use 
Control-C. This is really very powerful, and I'd say that my most effective use 
of the macvisionaries archive dates from discovering that the list was archived 
at the Mail Archive and finding out about the search and wild card options.  
For example, I can find any of your posts by typing:
From:Bryan in front of my search terms.

HTH

Cheers,

Esther


Bryan Smart wrote:

> Hi Esther.
>
> I don't really see a problem with adding mail archive, except, why is 
> it needed? Google Groups already show up on many search indexes, not 
> the least of which is Google. Is there some other advantage?
>
> I take your point about setting the list to not be public. I guess 
> that it doesn't happen as much with traditional listservs because they 
> aren't so easy to discover  automatically with a computer program.
> With closed lists, join requests must be manually approved, and I hate 
> adding too much admin work. Anyway, I'll do this for ptaccess. Thanks 
> again.
>
> Bryan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> ] On Behalf Of Esther
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 4:48 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: New list for Pro Tools discussion [was Re: Pro Tools 8.0.4 is 
> finally out]
>
> Hi Bryan,
>
> Can you please set up the new list so that it is archived at the Mail 
> Archive and searchable?  Read the FAQ for how to do it:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/faq.html#newlist>
> It only took about 10 minutes of fiddling back and forth to do this 
> for the vimacaudio list, with none of us knowing how this worked.
> Since then, there's an extra step, so read the document.  This will 
> save people having to repeat and type in questions many times, as on 
> the viphone list.
>
> And please change the "anyone can join" status before you get spammed 
> by people looking to find Google groups they can join and post to for 
> advertising --- that's what happened when the macvisionaries list 
> started up, and it's why the list is not just open.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Esther
>
> On Jun 11, 2010, at 09:38, Bryan Smart wrote:
>
>> There is now a list for people that just want to discuss Pro Tools 
>> from an accessibility perspective. It's hosted on the Google Group 
>> PTAccess.
>>
>> To directly subscribe, send an empty message to:
>> ptaccess+subscr...@googlegroups.com
>>
>> The group's web page is here:
>> http://www.googlegroups.com/group/ptaccess
>>
>> Presently, we only know of the 8.04 update for Pro Tools LE being 
>> live on Avid's site. MPowered and HD

RE: Build 10F569 of Mac OS X 10.6.4 Seeded to Developers

[Bryan Smart]

They mentioned VO in the last few builds of 10.6.4. They talked about it in 
10.6.3. Who knows what was actually changed. I've never found a list of actual 
changes to VO, so, when ever they list it, I pretty much interpret it as 
meaning "and other stuff, too".

Bryan


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of David Hole
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 3:49 PM
To: MacVisionaries Mailinglist
Subject: Build 10F569 of Mac OS X 10.6.4 Seeded to Developers

Hi folks.
I thought this one is a little bit interesting for us.
Notice the word VoiceOver :)

Source: 
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/14/build-10f569-of-mac-os-x-10-6-4-seeded-to-developers/

Build 10F569 of Mac OS X 10.6.4 Seeded to Developers

Monday June 14, 2010 03:36 PM EST
Written by Eric Slivka

Apple today seeded Build 10F569 of Mac OS X 10.6.4 to developers. The new build 
comes six days after the last seed and continues to list no known issues with 
the update. As with the last several developers builds, testers are asked to 
once again focus their efforts on Graphics Drivers, SMB, USB, Voice Over, and 
VPN.

Seeding of Mac OS X 10.6.4 began in late April and today's build represents the 
eighth version pushed out to developers for testing.

A public release of Mac OS X 10.6.4 had been rumored to occur during last 
week's Worldwide Developers Conference, but Apple appears to still be putting 
the final touches on the next maintenance update for Mac OS X Snow Leopard. The 
most recent public version of Snow Leopard, Mac OS X 10.6.3, was released in 
late March.

Kind regards David

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RE: vinux 3.0 on bootcamp

[Bryan Smart]

Actually, Larry, it runs better in VMware. In VMware, you have a virtualized 
set of hardware that is visible to the guest, and VMware Tools includes Linux 
drivers for the virtualized hardware. Under BootCamp, though, Apple doesn't 
provide drivers for anything other than Windows. Linux has support for lots of 
Mac hardware, but some devices won't work. I think that wireless on the new MBP 
models falls in to this category. I'm sure that someone out there has hacked up 
a fix, so you can probably get it working, but will require quite a bit of 
extra effort.

Don't forget to manually add the option to the VMX file to reduce the buffer 
size of the virtualized audio device, or else the latency between a key press 
and speech will be fairly long.

pciSound.playBuffer = "16"

16 works fine on my MBP, but you might need to adjust. With 16, speech in 
virtual machines seems just as snappy as physical machines. Lower than 16, 
though, and I get crackling. So, if your speech is choppy after this tweak, up 
it a bit.

BTW: You must completely close a VM, change the vmx file, and then restart it. 
Editing while the VM is active won't change the live setting, and your changes 
can be overwritten when the VM closes.

I wish that they'd allow people to adjust the size of the record buffer. All 
audio going in to a VM is on about a 1 second delay. Makes it difficult to use 
VoIP applications.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Larry Skutchan
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 8:24 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: vinux 3.0 on bootcamp

How are you getting the volume level up where you can hear it. I always have to 
go to Ubuntu's System Settings and raise the volume there. It is fine until I 
reboot where it returns to such a low level that it is very difficult to hear.
I suspect this should work under Boot Camp just as well if not better.
On Jun 14, 2010, at 3:03 PM, chad baker wrote:

> Hi has anyone ever tried vinux 3.0 on bootcamp?
> I just downloaded it it works fine in fusion.
> 
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RE: Install iOS 4 today!

[Bryan Smart]

You know, I was angry about this. The more I think about it, though, the more I 
like it.

Recently, when I travel to any large urban center in the US, network 
performance on my phone becomes degraded. Didn't used to be that way. Has 
become much worse in the last year or so. I know that is because, in large 
part, to all of the bazillion people on their iPhones. Previously, those people 
either didn't care, or didn't know enough, to affectively do anything on a 
smartphone that would consume a lot of bandwidth. Now, anyone can go get a 
cheap iPhone, and start lapping up all the bandwidth for $30 per month. You 
don't need many of those people in your area before most of the network 
capacity is gone.

Sure, data will cost a bit more now. I'd like to pay less, but I can afford to 
pay more. However, paying more has the added benefit that most people won't be 
able to pay more, or at least will carefully consider what they're doing before 
they leave Pandora running on their iPhone all day at their desk, sucking up 
all of the capacity in the cell, etc. They'll be worried about bills now, which 
means they'll stay off the network, which means more bandwidth for me.

I've noticed that just about any business that offers all you can use or all 
you can eat service starts to quickly drop off in quality. Think of those web 
hosting companies that promise unlimited bandwidth. Sure, the bandwidth for 
your site is unlimited, just like the bandwidth for the other thousand sites 
that they host are unlimited. The result is that you can download all you want, 
at a snail's pace. Who goes to a buffet restaurant for fine dining? It's better 
to pay a company a fee that actually manages to cover the costs for the service 
that they provide. If not, well, you descend in to the wonderfully high quality 
of unlimited web hosting and buffet dining. I think that I get more upset with 
AT&T's network being clogged than I am about the price. If I can pay more to 
have it work well, then sign me up.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Michael Thurman
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:25 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Install iOS 4 today!

how do you figure that  if you don't actually USE your phone maybe, but i want 
an I phone for streaming and data NOT for yapping onthe phone  i also want it 
for the echlink client and skype. i almost never talk on the telephone. and i 
can suck down 2 gb in a day I'd imagine. a couple hours of streaming audio a 
week and I'd bus tmy limit. at and t just needs to get off thier can and fix 
their outdated infastructure! it's not like I'm tryinh o ownload movies but 2 
gb can't be worth anything and god forbid i ever did want to listen to 
something from netflix or huly  great job the i pad will have an ap for netflix 
just in time for at and t to kill of any chance of acutlaly using it except at 
home. if I have to be home to stream audio with my I phone that I was going to 
buy I'd jus tuse my laptop On Jun 17, 2010, at 6:48 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> It sounds like your just mad for the sake of being mad.  ATT is not screwing 
> people over data prices per say.  It is just the feeling of having limits 
> placed on you.  The timing was definitely grimy but, most people will end up 
> saving money in the long run.  
> On Jun 17, 2010, at 6:39 PM, Michael Thurman wrote:
> 
>> what is unethical is the fact that apple doesn't kick at and t in the ball 
>> sof r screwing us ont he data prices!!! i doubt i wil be getting a new I 
>> phone becuase of the screw job at and t is doing to us   and verizon will 
>> surely screw us as well beofre they get the I phone it was expensive enugh 
>> beofre at and t decided to piss on all of us who want to get an I phone
>> as for trying a beta it's a beta  get real On Jun 12, 2010, at 10:17 
>> AM, Kaare Dehard wrote:
>> 
>>> right on scott the huge wait time is absolutely staggering, and to be blunt 
>>> jumping ahead of the line to install unsanctioned product just because we 
>>> can is a bit of a kick in the nuts to a company that has made itself usable 
>>> out of the box for us. It's not only free, but jumping ahead is not only a 
>>> touch unethical considering, but a touch rude to boot.
>>> On 2010-06-12, at 8:58 AM, Scott Howell wrote:
>>> 
 Considering the fact that unless you are a developer and obtained the beta 
 via legitimate means, I cannot believe you have the nerve to ask how to 
 install/upgrade software you are not entitled to use.  I hope no one 
 provides you with any help on this list.  Perhaps waiting for the official 
 release makes even more sense and wow, you would have to wait one entire 
 week.
 On Jun 12, 2010, at 8:06 AM, Jørgen Skov Nielsen wrote:
 
> I have downloaded the iphone os 4, and the itunes beta.
> How can i do that, i have tryed to check for updates, but i can't

Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?

[Bryan Smart]

I like the Mac, too, but it can't do everything.

For music and audio production, we now have Pro Tools, but, for many tasks, 
software systems under Windows like Sonar still have superior access. So, for 
now, I run Sonar in BootCamp.

I run a small business, and use Outlook and Excel extensively. Mac Mail doesn't 
have any server solution like Exchange. Numbers might be a replacement for 
Excel, but I have a huge set of templates built up in Excel that I haven't 
spent the time to convert.

There are practically no accessible games for the Mac. The only ones that 
partly work are Audio Quake and Sound RTS, and those take a huge amount of 
manual hackery to get going. On Windows, there are several first person 
shooters (single and network player), RPG games, racing games, strategy/war 
games, board and card games, etc. If you have a Mac, and you want to use any of 
that, you need Windows.

Plus, there is other specialty software like Klango and TeamTalk that aren't 
available for the Mac.

I realize that this next remark could be taken badly. So, I want you to know 
that I'm trying to say it as constructively as possible. I might be wrong, but 
it is my understanding that you got one of the jobs that Apple posted recently. 
Congratulations. However, you'll poorly serve yourself and your employer if you 
allow your knowledge of accessible computing to start and stop with OS X. You 
can't evaluate your work unless you know the works of others such that you can 
judge your relative success. When I was at Microsoft, for example, people 
routinely had secondary machines in their offices that ran other OSes (like 
Linux variants). This was encouraged. If everyone lives in their own little 
bubble, surrounded by other people at the same company that also share the same 
little bubble, then entire trends can come and go in the outside world without 
them even noticing.

If you're doing something accessibility related at Apple, then you should have 
Windows installed on a computer that you must routinely use for some required 
task, so that you'll force yourself to use it. You don't need to get Jaws. Get 
Window Eyes. get System Access. The point is to make yourself do something in 
Windows world so that you can have experience with what they get right, and 
what they get wrong.

Anyway, I hope that you didn't get too upset by my response, either. I don't 
want to be critical, but, if you're trying to improve the accessibility 
situation on the Mac, you must know what others are trying. It isn't enough to 
only live in Mac world.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of David McLean
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 2:19 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: -- SPAM -- Re: installing windows on macs? What are the 
advantages/why do people opt for this?

The only thing I use Windows for, and the only reason I installed it on the Mac 
as a Vm, is to use Winamp.  I like Vlc but I just haven't found anything I like 
as well as Winamp.
Also I've been a Windows used since the mid 90s so there are still a few times 
such as now with the Audible/Safari problem where it is just more convenient to 
go back to Windows temporarily.
On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

> Hi Olivia,
> 
> Remember that a lot of us who are coming to the Mac now, have been 
> Windows users for many years, which means, unfortunately, that we 
> already own that expensive third-party software. :)
> 
> Speaking only for myself of course, I got a Mac b/c I like the notion of 
> out-of-the-box accessibility, and I want to support Apple in this approach.  
> I would also be happy to stop paying for upgrades to that expensive 3rd-party 
> software.  When I bought my Mac, my plan had been to abandon Windows 
> completely, but I have found that simply isn't possible.  Right now, there is 
> not a good scanning option for the Mac, unless you want to commit to 
> fine-reader without a demo, and use it in conjunction with Vuescan.  My copy 
> of Kurzweil works great, so I continue to scan on my old Windows machine.  I 
> also find that some Word docs with tables in them read much better in Windows 
> than on the Mac.  I also use the Duxbury translator, which runs under 
> Windows.  Also, several of us have noted that audio captchas work much better 
> under windows than they do on the Mac.  Moreover, at least on the faculty 
> end, Blackboard works *much better under Windows, in fact, as of last winter, 
> Safari 4 wasn't even supported.  So, though I had not planned to continue 
> using Windows, for all of the above reasons, I still do.  My solution has 
> been to simply hang onto my Windows machine.  But if you can't do that for 
> whatever reason, your only option is to run a dual-boot system on your Mac.
> 
> I love my Mac, but right now it simply cannot completely replace my Windows 
> machine.  So, until it can, I'll be running both.
> Take care

RE: Install iOS 4 today!

[Bryan Smart]

Hi.

No, there are lots of other options for people on a budget. There are all sorts 
of phones from LG that have built-in speech for basic functions like phone 
book, call log, and text. You can get them on other carriers than AT&T. You can 
even get low cost Windows smartphones on Verizon with MobileSpeak.

Even if you get an iPhone, it isn't required that you use lots of mobile data. 
The Wi-Fi access is there for people on a budget, and the basic phone features 
don't require Internet access.

Owning an iPhone, and also using it a lot over 3G, is totally an individual 
choice.

The only thing that will annoy me is, if we pay more for Internet access, and 
the quality situation still doesn't improve. I think that it will improve a bit 
when many of the outrageously heavy network abusers get their first phone bill, 
and realize that they've streamed 20GB this month because of leaving Internet 
radio on all day every day. I think that will cause them to be a bit more picky 
about when they use the network. Some people will pay, no matter what AT&T 
charges. Some people will cut back a bit. What I'm really looking forward to is 
having the abusers kicked off with big bills, so they'll stop monopolizing the 
network. I normally don't use that much 3G network when I'm out. I mainly just 
access e-mail, web sites, and data for apps like GPS. When I'm traveling, or on 
business trips, I'll use apps like Netflix or Pandora much more than usual. It 
isn't so bad to pay a bit more during those times to be able to get 
entertainment while I'm waiting in an airport terminal or such, or if I can't 
find a Wi-Fi signal for my laptop.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Michael Thurman
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:32 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Install iOS 4 today!


 if you want to pay more go for it and while youare at it help us pay for what 
used to be overpiced and ow is rediculous!yeah rich man  most of us can NOT 
afford it  especialy considering the i phone is the ONLY reasonable solution 
that is accessible. anything else costs twice the price for half the 
functionality On Jun 17, 2010, at 11:51 PM, Bryan Smart wrote:

> You know, I was angry about this. The more I think about it, though, the more 
> I like it.
>
> Recently, when I travel to any large urban center in the US, network 
> performance on my phone becomes degraded. Didn't used to be that way. Has 
> become much worse in the last year or so. I know that is because, in large 
> part, to all of the bazillion people on their iPhones. Previously, those 
> people either didn't care, or didn't know enough, to affectively do anything 
> on a smartphone that would consume a lot of bandwidth. Now, anyone can go get 
> a cheap iPhone, and start lapping up all the bandwidth for $30 per month. You 
> don't need many of those people in your area before most of the network 
> capacity is gone.
>
> Sure, data will cost a bit more now. I'd like to pay less, but I can afford 
> to pay more. However, paying more has the added benefit that most people 
> won't be able to pay more, or at least will carefully consider what they're 
> doing before they leave Pandora running on their iPhone all day at their 
> desk, sucking up all of the capacity in the cell, etc. They'll be worried 
> about bills now, which means they'll stay off the network, which means more 
> bandwidth for me.
>
> I've noticed that just about any business that offers all you can use or all 
> you can eat service starts to quickly drop off in quality. Think of those web 
> hosting companies that promise unlimited bandwidth. Sure, the bandwidth for 
> your site is unlimited, just like the bandwidth for the other thousand sites 
> that they host are unlimited. The result is that you can download all you 
> want, at a snail's pace. Who goes to a buffet restaurant for fine dining? 
> It's better to pay a company a fee that actually manages to cover the costs 
> for the service that they provide. If not, well, you descend in to the 
> wonderfully high quality of unlimited web hosting and buffet dining. I think 
> that I get more upset with AT&T's network being clogged than I am about the 
> price. If I can pay more to have it work well, then sign me up.
>
> Bryan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Thurman
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:25 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Install iOS 4 today!
>
> how do you figure that  if you don't actually USE your phone maybe, but i 
> want an I phone fo

RE: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?

[Bryan Smart]

Agreed. I think what I like most about the Mac is that I can run both at once. 
I like Mac for many tasks, but, honestly, Windows is better at several things. 
Doesn't matter. When using a Mac, I can run either.

Of course, on a Windows machine, I could also run another OS like Linux, but, 
even as someone that's been to college for Computer Science, and worked 
professionally as a software engineer, I don't enjoy having to geek out on low 
level details on most tasks like is required with Linux. For me, anyway, the 
Mac OS is the most accessible Unix that I know of. It is what I wish Linux 
could have become. I can get low level if I want, but I don't have to. And, of 
course, VoiceOver is so much better than Orca, and Alex handily beats all of 
the speech engines for Linux.

I kind of cheer Linux on in a way. This is probably a subject for another 
thread, but the reason that I think that OS X ended up so much better as a user 
friendly Unix instead of Linux, is that Linux makes it too easy for everyone to 
have their own way. Choice is a good thing, but the cost is that everyone has 
their own way, and trying to make all of those choices fit together/work 
together is a huge challenge. In some ways, I think that is a harder challenge 
than what Microsoft has to deal with by getting Windows to run on so many 
different types of computer components. I used to be for choice over all other 
considerations, but that peaked when I was a teenager, and was interested in 
computing for the sake of learning about computing. Now that I need computers 
for my business, I get real annoyed when I must research a computing problem in 
too much detail. I *can* figure it out, but I would rather spend my time 
working with the computer, instead of on it. Anything that saves me time and 
decreases complexity is worth the money that the person or company is asking. 
This is why I've switched to Apple stuff, even for situations where I don't use 
OS X.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 10:54 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people 
opt for this?

Hi Olivia.

I thought I'd reply to some of your message.

The reason why I have windows on my Mac is:

1.  I need to keep my windows mobile up-to-date (even though in due course I'll 
have the Iphone.

2.  The reason why I switched to the Mac was my constant losing of jaws licence 
counts.

3.  I like to keep my hand in all technology and as Mark has said, sometimes 
you need windows to run programs such as Goldwave that I use along with a host 
of windows products which I use from time to time.

I'm a great believer of using all the technology available to me and believe in 
choices and do not wish to keep my eggs in one basket as it were.

Kawal. 
On Jun 18, 2010, at 3:05 PM, Olivia Norman wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
> Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :)  I just don't 
> understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it 
> for?  It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over 
> the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense 
> for most people.  Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so 
> you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make 
> it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows.  I guess the question 
> I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and 
> the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place?  Also, 
> from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two 
> operating systems?
> I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in 
> knowing why and how you switch between the OS's?
> Thanks for appeasing my curiosity!  I'm sure there are totally good reasons 
> for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are!
> Olivia
> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower" Steve Jobs
> 
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Kawal Gucukoglu

(E-mail/MSN):

kawal_gucuko...@sent.com

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RE: Economics and the Mac

[Bryan Smart]

Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between the 
National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies, they 
were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind people 
out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato was more trouble 
than it was worth, and dropped the project.

I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen reader 
company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley Systems got 
shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while individuals might like 
Macs, business and academia will continue to insist on Windows machines for a 
long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to them.

Bryan

On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:

> I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
> hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
> universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
> Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
> technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
> brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
> mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
> sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
> forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
> economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
> dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
> it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market
> is because they have contracted with some state agencies and
> government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly.
> I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000
> to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the biggest
> majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby
> boomers who are about to reach retirement age.  We have no school for
> the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind
> kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them
> Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could
> probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of
> us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis
> increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out.  Richie Gardenhire,
> Anchorage, Alaska.
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote:
>
> I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they
> have a guaranteed nitch and can charge whatever they want.  That's why
> I will not upgrade my JAWS SMA.  For one thing I don't need it and
> secondly, I don't want to pay that kind of price for an upgrade, but
> FS knows that they can get away with it because of a guaranteed
> market.  I'm not saying things could not change, but simply stating
> that you can't get JAWS or a Braille display from a  home electronics
> ore software store, and I wouldn't expect to happen any time soon if
> ever. In their eyes, why should They bother as they won't sell enough
> of them to make it worth their while.  There  is a cell phone put out
> by Capital Accessibility in Europe.  I've seen one and it's no big
> deal.  The speech is great, but there is no camera, digital screen, or
> anything that might ad a bit of a price to the phone.  It's built like
> a brick, but it is over $500 and though the speech is clear, it's very
> robotic.  Tell me that's not ridiculous?  I don't know that agencies
> are responsible for this one, but the phone is so tailored to our
> needs that somebody will buy it.  Not me.  Granted, if more people
> were learning braille and speech software as they were dealing with
> macular degeneration, and there was a big enough demand for it, things
> might come down a bit.  That's great about the scanner.  I'd better
> stop typing now as I am misspelling more things than I am typing
> correctly and am about to throw this keyboard, though it's not at fault.
>
> On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
>
>> With all due respect, that argument has been used time and time
>> again.  To that, I say this: the best example of a product that has
>> gone down in price because of the acceptance of it by the sighted
>> community, is the optical scanner, which was originally intended for
>> use by the blind for scanning newspapers, magazines, and othr
>> documents in their computers or reading machines.  Back then, you had
>> to pay thousands of dolars for the machine, and ys, state agencies
>> bought it for us, if we were lucky.  Now, one can buy a scanner and
>> to a certain extent, software for scanning pictures, text, and other
>> document forms into one's PC, at a fraction of the cost it was in the
>> 1970's.  The point here is that it found a marketable niche among the
>> sighted community, and once they were mass-produced, prices started
>>

RE: Economics and the Mac

[Bryan Smart]

That's great, but they are anomalies.

I currently live in South Carolina. One of my income sources involves taking AT 
training contracts from school systems. I'm one of the few people around here 
that is setup to train on VoiceOver. The main reason for me being so unique in 
that regard is there are practically no clients, and so I'm the only one that 
bothers with it. Not one school system in South Carolina uses Macs. No school 
systems in Georgia use Macs. In North Carolina, a few Macs are present, at a 
few schools, for special labs/projects. I've been told recently that Florida, 
also, doesn't use any Macs, though I don't work there, so don't claim to know 
the purchasing decisions and politics. What the schools have, though, are 
thousands and thousands of Windows-based PCs, and over 90% of the ones that are 
adapted for a blind student use Jaws.

I'm sure any number of people, particularly on a list like this, can pipe up 
and say "well, I know of a school district around where I live that has or uses 
some Macs". Those are special cases, though. The country is huge, and places 
like that are rare when you realize how every place else is swimming in Windows 
PCs. A single school district can own thousands of them.

When our blind services undertakes projects to train and place the general 
blind population in to jobs, it always involves call center or office work, and 
Macs are no where to be found.

Our Commission for the Blind just recently bought their first Mac, ever, for 
someone that needed it for a home-based business. That means, of all the blind 
people that they've ever served, they've purchased thousands of Windows 
computers, but never a Mac, and, when a person got one, it was for something 
they were doing on their own, not mainstreamed. I was contacted because I was 
someone that knows something about Macs. Most of the AT and IT people there 
don't know anything about Macs, because they don't have to; they're neither 
needed, nor requested.

Obviously, I like my Mac. Don't be fooled though. Just because some schools 
here or there might use them, their use in schools over-all is a drop in the 
bucket. There use in business is practically nonexistent. The blindness 
agencies are concerned with getting blind people employed and/or educated. 
Finding a Mac in either school or work is a rare event, so, Macs are irrelevant 
to them. That's why the NFB and the screen reader manufacturers didn't care 
that Apple worked on a screen reader. In there minds, Apple can make the best 
one in the world, and it won't matter, because all of the edutainment and 
business applications that are used by the mainstream world are on Windows, so 
blind people will need Windows for school and work, so Windows-based screen 
readers will be necessary. It isn't about which is better.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Rob Lambert
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:41 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac

In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high school's 
library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around here, are 
Mac-based.


On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  wrote:


Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between 
the National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies, 
they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind 
people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato was more 
trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.

I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen 
reader company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley Systems 
got shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while individuals might 
like Macs, business and academia will continue to insist on Windows machines 
for a long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to them.

Bryan


On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:

> I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
> hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
> universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
> Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
> technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
> brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
> mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
> sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
> forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
> economic dolars

RE: Economics and the Mac

[Bryan Smart]

Yeh, and my schools in the 1980's and 90's had Apple IIs and Macs, also. I 
learned to program on an Apple IIe that I got to use at school. My first 
encounter with assistive tech was an Apple IIe with an Echo II, Braille-Edit, 
and a Cramner embosser. Since then, there has been the Internet revolution, the 
smartphone revolution, 7 major releases of the Mac OS (in different forms), at 
least 7 major releases of Windows, Linux, and so on. That has been a long time. 
Hey, if there were Macs around here, or in any state around here, I'd be all 
for it and eager to pick up the work. All the outreach divisions associated 
with agencies that serve the AT needs of disabled students have practically no 
demand for Mac services. They're tasked with providing equipment, training, and 
associated services to help a disabled student use the same computing resources 
as their sighted peers. So, if there are Macs, and the student has to use them, 
it is on the agencies to make it work. None of them bother to learn anything 
about the Mac, because there is no demand for it at work. When the odd ball 
situation comes up, they contract out the work, which is rare. I'm the only 
contractor they have that supports the Mac, and rarely do I get work from them 
for that reason. Usually, they contact me about technology issues related to 
assistive tech for music.

I bet there are many school districts in California that use Macs. I suspect 
that there are other clusters of Mac use. I can tell you, though, in the 
south-eastern US, the school world is thousands and thousands of Windows-based 
PCs, adapted for the totally blind, when needed, with Jaws. I don't really like 
it, but that's how it is here.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:39 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac

Not totally sure on that minority claim.
fro many many years, apple had the apple core program where they donated apple 
computers to schools around the country.
I went to high school in Arkansas...a grand while ago, and the computers we had 
were apple computers.
You might be surprised how many schools are so equip.
Karen


On Wed, 23 Jun 2010, Michael Thurman wrote:

> every school system that I have ever had any dealings with uses macintosh 
> computers in at least some of their labs and teaching.
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority.  It 
>> really has no baring on Bryan's original comment.
>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:
>>
>>> In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high 
>>> school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around 
>>> here, are Mac-based.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  
>>> wrote:
>>> Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between the 
>>> National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies, 
>>> they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind 
>>> people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato was more 
>>> trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.
>>>
>>> I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen 
>>> reader company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley 
>>> Systems got shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while 
>>> individuals might like Macs, business and academia will continue to insist 
>>> on Windows machines for a long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to 
>>> them.
>>>
>>> Bryan
>>>
>>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion
>>>> at hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac
>>>> computers universally marketed across the board, there is no reason
>>>> why Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and
>>>> the technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if
>>>> it brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop
>>>> a mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box
>>>> without sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific
>>>> would then be forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they
>>>> would lose their economic dolars; after all, isn't that what
>>>> competition for tax

RE: Answering a few questions about Daisy Bookworm for iPhone

[Bryan Smart]

Well, nice as it is, a Victor stream will play for 15 hours or more on a single 
charge. How long do you think that your iPhone will play?

Bryan 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:40 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Cc: macvoiceover
Subject: Re: Answering a few questions about Daisy Bookworm for iPhone

Sounds great and at such a low price too (don't think I will be buying a victor 
stream now).  tHIS ftp thing, is there no way you could add support for iDisk 
for those of us who have it?  That might be much easier then establishing a FTP 
connection.

Seems like this year might be the start of many good accessible apps for the 
iPhone

Is there anything on the iPhone that reads MS Word documents via VoiceOver?
On 24 Jun 2010, at 09:38, Greg Kearney wrote:

> I'll try and answer a few questions that have come up about Daisy 
> Bookworm for iPhone
> 
> Loading Books
> Loading books is done via an FTP connection between your computer and the 
> iPhone Daisy Bookworm has a built in FTP server which you connect to and then 
> upload the book's directory to the phone using any FTP client on any 
> computer. Needless to say you need a wireless network to connect the phone 
> to. You do not need your own FTP server, Daisy Bookworm has a built in FTP 
> server.
> 
> Book compatibility
> Daisy Bookworm for iPhone will read any audio only and full text full audio 
> unencrypted DAISY book. This includes books from Association for the Blind of 
> Western Australia, Vision Australia, RNZFB, CNIB, RNIB, TPB and most other 
> world talking book libraries. It will not read NLS encrypted books. We have 
> asked the NLS about how to have these devices authorised but have yet to 
> receive any reply. We are working on RFB&D playback and text only DAISY 
> playback (Bookshare) in the next release.
> 
> Accessibility
> Daisy Bookworm for iPhone is fully accessible with VoiceOver screen reader.
> 
> iPad
> Daisy Bookworm is compatible with the Apple iPad.
> 
> Where do you get Daisy Bookworm
> Daisy Bookworm will be available this summer from the iTunes App Store. It 
> will cost less than $5 when released.
> 
> Is this Voice of Daisy
> No. Voice of Daisy or VOD is a different program from a different developer 
> in Japan.
> 
> Hope this clears things up.
> 
> 
> Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media Association for the Blind 
> of WA - Guide Dogs WA PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener 
> Ave, Victoria Park WA 6100
> Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au
> Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America)
> Email: greg.kear...@guidedogswa.com.au
> Email: gkear...@gmail.com
> 
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